1 00:00:23,545 --> 00:00:25,329 Paul Gude: All right. So... 2 00:00:27,244 --> 00:00:28,680 Can you see me? 3 00:00:29,072 --> 00:00:30,856 Rodney Ascher: Hey! Yeah, there you are. Hey, Paul. 4 00:00:31,031 --> 00:00:34,860 Paul: Hey! So I'm just now starting the audio recorder. 5 00:00:35,078 --> 00:00:36,123 [Rodney indistinctly talking] 6 00:00:38,473 --> 00:00:40,344 All right, so that's set up. 7 00:00:41,345 --> 00:00:44,435 And I'm starting the video recorder. 8 00:00:49,179 --> 00:00:50,050 [beeps] 9 00:00:52,139 --> 00:00:54,315 Paul: And I'm just making sure that it's recording. 10 00:00:54,967 --> 00:00:59,189 Okay. So... Hello! 11 00:00:59,842 --> 00:01:01,148 Rodney: One of the things that 12 00:01:01,539 --> 00:01:03,889 you wrote about was sort of your first primitive idea 13 00:01:04,064 --> 00:01:06,675 - of simulation theory as a kid. - Yeah. 14 00:01:06,936 --> 00:01:08,503 Rodney: Yeah, can you describe what that was like? 15 00:01:08,938 --> 00:01:10,940 Can I do one thing before that? 16 00:01:11,114 --> 00:01:12,333 Rodney: Yeah. 17 00:01:12,768 --> 00:01:14,509 'Cause this is gonna set the tenor for everything. 18 00:01:14,857 --> 00:01:16,076 Rodney: Please. 19 00:01:16,685 --> 00:01:19,383 Paul: Okay. I was in a class when I was in college, 20 00:01:19,557 --> 00:01:21,037 I went to the University of Missouri, Columbia. 21 00:01:21,211 --> 00:01:22,734 This was in the early '90s. 22 00:01:23,474 --> 00:01:25,128 And a teacher was in front of the class 23 00:01:25,302 --> 00:01:26,303 and the teacher said, 24 00:01:27,261 --> 00:01:29,393 "Something interesting about the brain 25 00:01:30,133 --> 00:01:33,180 is that we actually can map what we think 26 00:01:33,354 --> 00:01:35,007 about the human nervous system 27 00:01:35,182 --> 00:01:38,228 by the highest level of technology of the day." 28 00:01:39,011 --> 00:01:41,666 So for example, when the aqueducts were big, 29 00:01:42,058 --> 00:01:44,191 people thought that humors controlled the body. 30 00:01:44,365 --> 00:01:47,194 That different liquids would come in and teach you-- 31 00:01:47,890 --> 00:01:49,761 or make you feel a different way. 32 00:01:50,153 --> 00:01:52,373 And then whenever the telegraph came, 33 00:01:52,590 --> 00:01:53,765 then all of a sudden we thought, 34 00:01:53,939 --> 00:01:55,289 "Well, these are nerve impulses 35 00:01:55,463 --> 00:01:57,029 that go down sort of like wires." 36 00:01:57,769 --> 00:02:00,685 And then she said, "Now we know that the brain is a computer." 37 00:02:01,686 --> 00:02:03,427 And I raised my hand, I said, 38 00:02:03,601 --> 00:02:05,386 "Because that's our highest level of technology." 39 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,519 And she said, "No, the brain is a computer." 40 00:02:08,867 --> 00:02:12,567 And I didn't do that well in the class, but the thing is, 41 00:02:12,741 --> 00:02:14,786 so when we talk about simulation theory... 42 00:02:16,571 --> 00:02:18,399 we, right now, are living in a time where, 43 00:02:18,573 --> 00:02:21,141 you know, you have the PS4, PSVR, 44 00:02:21,315 --> 00:02:22,620 you know, 45 00:02:22,794 --> 00:02:24,448 I'm a Sony brand whore, so I apologize 46 00:02:24,622 --> 00:02:26,102 for not throwing out other things. 47 00:02:27,147 --> 00:02:29,279 But the basic, you know, 48 00:02:29,497 --> 00:02:31,934 virtual reality level of simulation 49 00:02:32,413 --> 00:02:35,242 is something that we can use as a model. 50 00:02:36,068 --> 00:02:39,246 But it isn't necessarily what is going on, 51 00:02:39,420 --> 00:02:40,638 and I think that's important. 52 00:02:40,943 --> 00:02:43,772 That we can use it and we can understand 53 00:02:43,946 --> 00:02:45,165 that's what's going on, 54 00:02:45,774 --> 00:02:48,342 but we aren't necessarily in a server room somewhere. 55 00:02:48,516 --> 00:02:49,995 It might be something different. 56 00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:53,042 You know, if you run into a thing in the world 57 00:02:53,216 --> 00:02:55,175 that you don't understand, your brain is gonna go, 58 00:02:55,827 --> 00:02:57,612 "Okay, maybe this is what this is." 59 00:02:58,265 --> 00:03:00,702 And as technology gets more advanced 60 00:03:01,093 --> 00:03:02,573 we'll have better ways of describing it. 61 00:03:02,878 --> 00:03:04,488 So, everything that I describe here 62 00:03:05,446 --> 00:03:09,014 keep in mind, you know, I'm a 21st Century guy, 63 00:03:09,189 --> 00:03:10,538 that's how my brain works. 64 00:03:11,060 --> 00:03:13,628 If you're watching this in the future, we aren't dumb, 65 00:03:13,802 --> 00:03:15,717 it's just that we don't have the tools that you have 66 00:03:15,891 --> 00:03:16,805 to think of this stuff. 67 00:03:21,505 --> 00:03:24,204 [electronic music plays] 68 00:03:29,078 --> 00:03:31,385 Computer voice: In September of 1977, 69 00:03:31,559 --> 00:03:34,823 the writer Philip K. Dick, creator ofMinority Report, 70 00:03:34,997 --> 00:03:36,825 Blade Runner, andTotal Recall, 71 00:03:37,129 --> 00:03:39,523 addressed an audience of fans in Metz, France. 72 00:03:40,132 --> 00:03:42,787 They expected a talk about science fiction but his 73 00:03:42,961 --> 00:03:45,964 lecture explored religion and philosophy as well. 74 00:03:46,530 --> 00:03:49,620 To him, all three subjects were deeply interconnected. 75 00:03:51,318 --> 00:03:53,755 [Indistinct conversations] 76 00:03:57,759 --> 00:03:59,413 The title of my address is... 77 00:04:00,457 --> 00:04:02,198 "If you find this world bad, 78 00:04:02,677 --> 00:04:04,069 you should see some of the others." 79 00:04:05,245 --> 00:04:06,985 [translator speaks French] 80 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:09,553 The subject of this speech... 81 00:04:13,209 --> 00:04:17,692 is a topic which has been discovered recently, 82 00:04:18,867 --> 00:04:20,608 and which may not exist at all. 83 00:04:20,782 --> 00:04:22,174 I may be talking about something 84 00:04:22,349 --> 00:04:23,350 that does not exist. 85 00:04:24,133 --> 00:04:26,614 Therefore, I am free to say everything or nothing. 86 00:04:27,702 --> 00:04:31,967 [translator speaks French] 87 00:04:32,881 --> 00:04:36,624 We are living in a computer programmed reality 88 00:04:36,885 --> 00:04:39,366 and the only clue we have to it 89 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:41,846 is when some variable is changed. 90 00:04:42,586 --> 00:04:46,198 and some alteration in our reality occurs. 91 00:04:50,464 --> 00:04:51,900 Computer voice: Philip K. Dick's belief 92 00:04:52,074 --> 00:04:53,858 that we were living in a digitally created, 93 00:04:54,032 --> 00:04:57,775 artificial world sounded like madness in 1977. 94 00:04:58,472 --> 00:05:01,736 But then in 1999, The Matrix introduced 95 00:05:01,910 --> 00:05:04,216 simulation theory to the wider world. 96 00:05:10,745 --> 00:05:13,400 In the years since the film, this idea has begun 97 00:05:13,574 --> 00:05:16,228 to be taken seriously as more than science fiction. 98 00:05:16,925 --> 00:05:19,449 It is fiercely debated online and in real life 99 00:05:19,623 --> 00:05:23,627 in classrooms, laboratories, design studios and courtrooms. 100 00:05:24,280 --> 00:05:25,803 Audience member: So the idea is right, 101 00:05:25,977 --> 00:05:27,631 any sufficiently advanced civilization 102 00:05:27,805 --> 00:05:31,983 could create simulation that's like our existence, 103 00:05:32,462 --> 00:05:33,811 and so the theory follows 104 00:05:33,985 --> 00:05:36,814 that maybe we're in the simulation. 105 00:05:37,598 --> 00:05:39,164 -Have you thought about this?- A lot. 106 00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:40,818 - Audience member: And are we-- - [audience laughs] 107 00:05:41,166 --> 00:05:45,910 I am actually in a simulation, and so are you. 108 00:05:50,654 --> 00:05:52,308 So, are we living in a simulation? 109 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:57,748 I find it hard to argue against that possibility. 110 00:05:58,227 --> 00:06:01,839 If all of this is some kind of informational process 111 00:06:02,013 --> 00:06:03,406 running in some machine. 112 00:06:04,364 --> 00:06:06,757 The machine is not in this universe, 113 00:06:06,931 --> 00:06:08,324 it's somewhere else, 114 00:06:08,759 --> 00:06:10,631 and this universe is a consequence of its running. 115 00:06:22,947 --> 00:06:25,602 This is kind of getting that artifacting or whatever problem. 116 00:06:26,908 --> 00:06:28,257 Rodney: Brother Mystwood, hey, how are you? 117 00:06:28,431 --> 00:06:31,608 Hello. I am sorry about the strange lighting. 118 00:06:32,261 --> 00:06:33,218 [chuckles] 119 00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:34,655 All I have is Christmas lights. 120 00:06:35,612 --> 00:06:37,832 You talked about, you know, sort of this journey 121 00:06:38,006 --> 00:06:40,704 starting after a spade of synchronicities. 122 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:43,272 - What were those like? - Yes. 123 00:06:43,751 --> 00:06:45,535 There's a number of rather small examples. 124 00:06:46,144 --> 00:06:48,408 You know, the kind of everyday things that you would, 125 00:06:48,582 --> 00:06:51,062 you know... I'm thinking of someone, 126 00:06:51,236 --> 00:06:53,630 and I turn the corner and there they are. 127 00:06:57,678 --> 00:07:01,246 I would start giving myself sort of tests. 128 00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:04,380 I'm thinking of an orange fish. 129 00:07:04,989 --> 00:07:07,078 I would like to see an orange fish in the next 10 minutes. 130 00:07:07,862 --> 00:07:09,211 And 10 minutes later in the walk, 131 00:07:09,385 --> 00:07:10,734 I turn down a street 132 00:07:11,213 --> 00:07:12,214 and there's a restaurant with an orange fish on it 133 00:07:12,388 --> 00:07:12,867 that I'd never seen before. 134 00:07:15,043 --> 00:07:18,307 So, small things like that occur with enough regularity. 135 00:07:18,916 --> 00:07:22,877 I began to sort of track my days numerically. 136 00:07:23,834 --> 00:07:25,140 And if you'll allow me to go 137 00:07:25,314 --> 00:07:27,272 on a tangent a little bit here, Rodney. 138 00:07:27,447 --> 00:07:30,058 I don't enjoy the average five-day week. 139 00:07:30,232 --> 00:07:33,409 I like to work in weeks of 12 days. 140 00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:39,850 I would notice that sort of on every 12th day 141 00:07:40,024 --> 00:07:41,722 I would see a certain type of thing pop up 142 00:07:41,896 --> 00:07:44,464 and I tracked this over the course of about a year. 143 00:07:45,639 --> 00:07:47,684 And long story short, started to notice 144 00:07:48,468 --> 00:07:53,124 you know, things that would pop up with a certain regularity. 145 00:07:53,777 --> 00:07:57,781 You know, on every third day, for instance, I would kind of-- 146 00:07:57,999 --> 00:07:59,609 that would be when something would happen 147 00:08:00,523 --> 00:08:02,177 sort of related to my career. 148 00:08:02,351 --> 00:08:04,875 Or every fifth day I would notice an interesting 149 00:08:05,049 --> 00:08:07,008 synchronicity related to my family, 150 00:08:07,182 --> 00:08:08,444 so on and so forth. 151 00:08:08,618 --> 00:08:10,054 And at a certain point of course, 152 00:08:10,228 --> 00:08:13,014 what becomes hard to delineate, is this regularity 153 00:08:13,188 --> 00:08:16,800 something that I'm noticing or something that I'm making? 154 00:08:16,974 --> 00:08:18,933 You know, is it a Schrodinger type of situation, 155 00:08:19,107 --> 00:08:21,457 where just by virtue of staring at this thing, 156 00:08:21,631 --> 00:08:22,893 it becomes something that it's not. 157 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:26,027 One of the big things was 158 00:08:26,462 --> 00:08:29,987 that I would go to a lot of places with my parents 159 00:08:30,771 --> 00:08:32,207 and they would be empty. 160 00:08:36,254 --> 00:08:37,560 Or very few people. 161 00:08:39,083 --> 00:08:41,651 Like a shopping mall with not a lot of people in there. 162 00:08:46,613 --> 00:08:50,138 Driving down the road and never seeing another car. 163 00:08:50,442 --> 00:08:51,531 Things like that. 164 00:08:52,923 --> 00:08:55,099 This is because I moved from Pontiac, Illinois, 165 00:08:55,273 --> 00:08:58,712 which had more people, 166 00:08:59,234 --> 00:09:02,193 to Dorsey, Illinois, which had like 500 people. 167 00:09:02,542 --> 00:09:03,847 Our nearest neighbor was a quarter of a mile 168 00:09:04,021 --> 00:09:05,457 down the road and all that. 169 00:09:05,762 --> 00:09:07,851 So I didn't interact with a lot of people. 170 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:11,986 And one of the things that I thought, 171 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,988 again, this is in my little, you know, 172 00:09:14,162 --> 00:09:16,077 I moved there when I was in like second grade... 173 00:09:16,904 --> 00:09:18,688 In my little brain I was like, "A-ha! 174 00:09:19,036 --> 00:09:22,257 This is a great way of saving time and money 175 00:09:22,431 --> 00:09:24,868 because they won't need to have as many people." 176 00:09:29,438 --> 00:09:31,135 Occasionally, I would go to St. Louis... 177 00:09:32,441 --> 00:09:34,095 which was about 50 miles away. 178 00:09:34,312 --> 00:09:37,446 But whenever we did, my Dad had a very tight control 179 00:09:37,881 --> 00:09:40,014 over our schedule and our itinerary, you know. 180 00:09:40,188 --> 00:09:42,712 - Once I saw... - [clamoring, gunshots] 181 00:09:42,930 --> 00:09:44,279 ...the idea of a facade, 182 00:09:45,541 --> 00:09:47,412 you know, this is on a western movie thing. 183 00:09:48,065 --> 00:09:49,763 Once I saw the idea of it, 184 00:09:49,937 --> 00:09:51,329 I was like, "Oh, well, that's what's happening." 185 00:09:52,504 --> 00:09:54,637 All this time that we're spending in the car, 186 00:09:54,811 --> 00:09:57,509 this 50 minutes that it takes us, 187 00:09:58,162 --> 00:09:59,511 we're inside this car 188 00:10:00,077 --> 00:10:03,690 they're playing, you know, this film of us driving 189 00:10:03,864 --> 00:10:06,562 while they're changing all the sets into the St. Louis set. 190 00:10:08,085 --> 00:10:10,610 [construction sounds] 191 00:10:12,220 --> 00:10:15,571 But I'm not gonna get to go and see everything 192 00:10:15,745 --> 00:10:17,965 because my dad is gonna be there to make sure 193 00:10:18,182 --> 00:10:20,054 that we hit the points we're supposed to hit 194 00:10:20,271 --> 00:10:22,099 and then we get back in the car and we go. 195 00:10:29,324 --> 00:10:31,326 Can you see me? There! 196 00:10:32,153 --> 00:10:36,810 I am an East Coaster who lives in Los Angeles. 197 00:10:37,811 --> 00:10:40,074 I have an electrical engineering degree from Harvard. 198 00:10:40,465 --> 00:10:41,292 I'm an entrepreneur. 199 00:10:41,902 --> 00:10:43,643 And I've also-- 200 00:10:45,296 --> 00:10:47,081 I've got Crohn's disease. 201 00:10:47,429 --> 00:10:51,738 And it all plays in to the simulation. 202 00:10:52,390 --> 00:10:55,698 I think the sort of basic idea is that 203 00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:57,700 if you believed it enough... 204 00:10:59,833 --> 00:11:01,748 incredibly high-power computing devices 205 00:11:01,922 --> 00:11:04,881 are gonna be distributed in society 206 00:11:05,055 --> 00:11:07,405 and that the computers will get stronger and stronger 207 00:11:07,579 --> 00:11:08,972 like our cell phones-- 208 00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:10,931 - [dogs barking] - Hey, you guys! Hey! No! Quiet! 209 00:11:12,454 --> 00:11:15,544 So, you know, if there are in fact... 210 00:11:17,633 --> 00:11:20,941 enough machines that are running 211 00:11:21,245 --> 00:11:23,378 video game-style world simulations 212 00:11:23,944 --> 00:11:26,990 the question is, you know, if there's that many fake realities 213 00:11:27,164 --> 00:11:28,731 and only one base reality, 214 00:11:29,123 --> 00:11:31,995 what are the chances that you happen to be in base reality? 215 00:11:32,604 --> 00:11:34,084 The odds that we're in base reality 216 00:11:34,258 --> 00:11:35,172 is one in billions. 217 00:11:40,438 --> 00:11:42,658 Computer voice: The most influential statistics-based 218 00:11:42,832 --> 00:11:46,096 look at simulation theory was a 2003 article 219 00:11:46,270 --> 00:11:48,533 by Oxford professor Nick Bostrom. 220 00:11:49,056 --> 00:11:52,624 It was titled "Are You Living in a Computer Simulation?" 221 00:11:53,234 --> 00:11:56,150 [Skype ringing] 222 00:11:57,020 --> 00:11:59,196 Well, I was at the time a... 223 00:12:00,589 --> 00:12:03,505 kind of post-doctoral fellow at Yale University. 224 00:12:03,810 --> 00:12:05,159 The ideas in some vague form 225 00:12:05,333 --> 00:12:07,988 have been with me for quite some time 226 00:12:08,292 --> 00:12:10,991 that amounted to something more than just idle speculation. 227 00:12:11,731 --> 00:12:12,862 And so I wrote that up 228 00:12:13,297 --> 00:12:15,256 and published that in Philosophical Quarterly. 229 00:12:16,648 --> 00:12:20,696 And it immediately evoked a huge amount of interest. 230 00:12:21,218 --> 00:12:24,744 And has continued to be a huge amount of interest. 231 00:12:24,961 --> 00:12:27,921 It seems to come in waves every year or two. 232 00:12:28,095 --> 00:12:31,315 Some new set of people discover it for the first time. 233 00:12:32,839 --> 00:12:35,537 So I make a distinction between the simulation hypothesis 234 00:12:35,711 --> 00:12:38,105 which is the hypothesis that we are literally 235 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:39,976 in a computer simulation engineered 236 00:12:40,324 --> 00:12:41,630 by some advanced civilization. 237 00:12:41,891 --> 00:12:43,501 And the simulation argument. 238 00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:47,201 And it uses some simple probability theory, 239 00:12:47,375 --> 00:12:50,073 but the basic idea can be quite easily grasped. 240 00:12:50,508 --> 00:12:53,598 Which is that at least one of three propositions is true. 241 00:12:54,730 --> 00:12:58,778 The first alternative is that most all civilizations 242 00:12:58,952 --> 00:13:01,345 at our current stage of technological development 243 00:13:02,303 --> 00:13:05,523 go extinct before they reach technological maturity. 244 00:13:10,615 --> 00:13:12,400 The second alternative is that there is 245 00:13:12,617 --> 00:13:14,097 a very strong convergence 246 00:13:14,576 --> 00:13:17,622 in virtually all technologically mature civilizations 247 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,973 in that they all lose interest 248 00:13:20,147 --> 00:13:23,150 in creating simulations of this kind. 249 00:13:23,454 --> 00:13:24,804 They all lose interest 250 00:13:25,021 --> 00:13:26,240 in creating ancestor simulations. 251 00:13:26,806 --> 00:13:28,590 And the third alternative is the simulation hypothesis 252 00:13:28,764 --> 00:13:31,288 that we are almost certainly in a computer simulation. 253 00:13:33,595 --> 00:13:37,294 So if you reject these first two propositions, it follows that 254 00:13:38,556 --> 00:13:42,778 almost all people with our kinds of experience are simulated. 255 00:13:43,083 --> 00:13:45,912 And then, conditional on that being the case, I argue 256 00:13:46,129 --> 00:13:48,436 we should think we are probably one of the simulated ones 257 00:13:49,002 --> 00:13:51,004 rather than one of the non-simulated, 258 00:13:51,221 --> 00:13:52,744 exceptional, original ones. 259 00:13:53,397 --> 00:13:55,617 Personally, for me, it's all about probabilities. 260 00:13:55,791 --> 00:14:01,057 I'm someone who thinks in terms of probabilities, anyway. 261 00:14:01,971 --> 00:14:04,887 And I've just found in my life 262 00:14:05,061 --> 00:14:08,108 that there's lots of low probability outcomes 263 00:14:08,673 --> 00:14:10,806 happen again and again and again, and again. 264 00:14:18,379 --> 00:14:19,597 Bam. 265 00:14:19,815 --> 00:14:21,251 If I keep glancing off to the side, 266 00:14:21,425 --> 00:14:23,123 it's 'cause my screen's over there. 267 00:14:23,297 --> 00:14:24,211 Rodney: Oh, okay. 268 00:14:24,646 --> 00:14:26,039 You're actually at my drawing table. 269 00:14:26,213 --> 00:14:27,214 So, if I keep glancing over there, 270 00:14:27,388 --> 00:14:28,432 I'm just looking at you. 271 00:14:29,607 --> 00:14:30,913 And I'll look back to camera. 272 00:14:31,087 --> 00:14:32,306 Rodney: What kind of drawing do you do? 273 00:14:34,612 --> 00:14:37,833 - It depends. You know Moebius? - Sure. 274 00:14:38,225 --> 00:14:40,923 Yeah, I re-drew one of his entire books 275 00:14:41,750 --> 00:14:45,493 with characters fromPeanuts instead of characters from him. 276 00:14:46,146 --> 00:14:48,670 And then I just do painting and stuff like... 277 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:52,717 just doodling like fake Mignola stuff. 278 00:14:53,153 --> 00:14:54,067 Rodney: Uh-huh. 279 00:14:54,806 --> 00:14:56,983 Nothing that wonderful, but... 280 00:14:58,201 --> 00:14:59,463 I'm working more on the Moebius-style 281 00:14:59,637 --> 00:15:01,422 for an entire new book right now. 282 00:15:01,596 --> 00:15:03,815 Rodney: That's cool. So, are you a full-time... 283 00:15:04,468 --> 00:15:06,253 - professional comic artist? - No, no. 284 00:15:07,036 --> 00:15:10,083 I wish. No, I do Special Ed teaching. 285 00:15:11,214 --> 00:15:12,824 Rodney: When did you start thinking that there's more 286 00:15:12,999 --> 00:15:15,523 to simulation theory than Science Fiction can see? 287 00:15:16,132 --> 00:15:19,005 Well, we know Musk. When he started talking about it 288 00:15:20,223 --> 00:15:21,790 I really started thinking about it more. 289 00:15:22,312 --> 00:15:25,663 The strongest argument for us being in a simulation-- 290 00:15:25,837 --> 00:15:27,839 probably being in a simulation, I think is the following. 291 00:15:29,754 --> 00:15:33,889 That 40 years ago, we had Pong. 292 00:15:34,107 --> 00:15:35,717 Like two rectangles and a dot. 293 00:15:36,152 --> 00:15:37,806 That was what games were. 294 00:15:39,025 --> 00:15:40,504 Now, 40 years later, 295 00:15:40,678 --> 00:15:43,464 we have photo-realistic 3D simulations 296 00:15:43,638 --> 00:15:45,509 with millions of people playing simultaneously. 297 00:15:45,901 --> 00:15:47,337 And it's getting better every year. 298 00:15:47,511 --> 00:15:50,819 If you assume any rate of improvement at all 299 00:15:52,299 --> 00:15:55,389 then the games will become indistinguishable from reality. 300 00:16:00,785 --> 00:16:04,920 I think that triggered me to really think hard about it. 301 00:16:12,493 --> 00:16:15,409 Does any one of us remember in any dim fashion 302 00:16:15,887 --> 00:16:19,413 a worse Earth, circa 1977, than this? 303 00:16:20,022 --> 00:16:23,330 Have our young men seen visions and our old men dreamed dreams? 304 00:16:23,547 --> 00:16:24,548 I have. 305 00:16:25,419 --> 00:16:28,509 Nightmare dreams, specifically, of prisons and jailers 306 00:16:29,031 --> 00:16:30,685 and ubiquitous police. 307 00:16:33,601 --> 00:16:37,257 I wrote out these dreams in novel after novel, 308 00:16:37,605 --> 00:16:38,954 story after story. 309 00:16:39,389 --> 00:16:41,870 To name two in which this prior ugly present 310 00:16:42,044 --> 00:16:43,176 obtained most clearly, 311 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,439 I cite The Man in the High Castle 312 00:16:45,830 --> 00:16:49,443 and my 1974 novel about the US as a police state 313 00:16:49,791 --> 00:16:52,011 calledFlow My Tears, The Policeman Said. 314 00:16:52,881 --> 00:16:55,101 I'm going to be very candid with you. 315 00:16:55,492 --> 00:16:59,322 I wrote both novels based on fragmentary residual memories 316 00:16:59,540 --> 00:17:01,672 of such a horrid slave state world. 317 00:17:02,282 --> 00:17:04,327 Or perhaps the term "world" is the wrong one 318 00:17:04,501 --> 00:17:05,981 and I should say "United States", 319 00:17:06,416 --> 00:17:07,678 since in both novels, 320 00:17:07,852 --> 00:17:09,419 I was writing about my own country. 321 00:17:10,855 --> 00:17:12,944 Some people claim to remember past lives. 322 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,383 I claim to remember a very different present life. 323 00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:20,213 I know of no one who has ever made this claim before, 324 00:17:20,430 --> 00:17:21,605 but I rather suspect 325 00:17:21,779 --> 00:17:23,564 that my experience is not unique. 326 00:17:24,260 --> 00:17:26,741 I can even tell you what caused me to remember. 327 00:17:27,611 --> 00:17:31,398 In late February of 1974, I was given sodium pentothal 328 00:17:31,572 --> 00:17:33,704 for the extraction of impacted wisdom teeth. 329 00:17:34,270 --> 00:17:36,794 Later that day, back home again but still 330 00:17:36,968 --> 00:17:39,580 deeply under the influence of the sodium pentothal, 331 00:17:39,928 --> 00:17:42,844 I had a short, acute flash of recovered memory. 332 00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:45,455 In one instance, I caught it all. 333 00:17:46,021 --> 00:17:48,980 You are free to believe me or to disbelieve, 334 00:17:49,372 --> 00:17:51,809 but please take my word on it that I am not joking. 335 00:17:51,983 --> 00:17:54,856 This is very serious, a matter of importance. 336 00:17:55,335 --> 00:17:57,728 I am sure that, at the very least, you'll agree 337 00:17:57,989 --> 00:18:01,297 that for me even to claim this is in itself amazing. 338 00:18:04,909 --> 00:18:07,608 Computer voice: Philip K. Dick wrote over 8,000 pages 339 00:18:07,782 --> 00:18:09,914 trying to understand the recovered memories 340 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:13,875 he experienced in February and March of 1974, 341 00:18:14,049 --> 00:18:17,052 an experience he called "2-3-7-4". 342 00:18:18,053 --> 00:18:20,534 This writing is known as "The Exegesis". 343 00:18:21,230 --> 00:18:22,579 Erik Davis, 344 00:18:23,058 --> 00:18:24,842 working with Pamela Davis and Jonathan Lethem, 345 00:18:25,234 --> 00:18:27,845 wrestled with this text to edit a single book from it. 346 00:18:30,021 --> 00:18:31,327 It was a great experience, 347 00:18:31,806 --> 00:18:35,505 although a kind of crazy-making one in a way. 348 00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:40,815 And you're in the antechamber of the guy's problems 349 00:18:41,032 --> 00:18:44,471 and his trauma, and his despair. 350 00:18:44,775 --> 00:18:47,213 It was so-- such a vast text 351 00:18:47,387 --> 00:18:50,651 that you kinda had to do it by attrition, really. 352 00:18:50,825 --> 00:18:52,653 There were a number of things that really worked. 353 00:18:52,827 --> 00:18:54,742 One is that when he was really engaged 354 00:18:54,916 --> 00:18:56,135 in his own writing... 355 00:18:56,352 --> 00:18:57,614 - [typing] - ...we included that. 356 00:18:57,832 --> 00:18:59,529 When he was describing experiences, 357 00:18:59,703 --> 00:19:00,922 we included that. 358 00:19:01,227 --> 00:19:02,489 - [scribbling] - There's a part where 359 00:19:02,967 --> 00:19:05,622 Dick describes the writing in "Exegesis" as a "hell chore". 360 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,538 I think it really shows the challenges 361 00:19:08,712 --> 00:19:11,541 of wrestling with an extraordinary experience, 362 00:19:11,715 --> 00:19:13,326 and particularly experiences 363 00:19:13,543 --> 00:19:16,459 which we can find throughout religious history 364 00:19:16,633 --> 00:19:20,333 of seeming insights into reality that, 365 00:19:20,550 --> 00:19:22,465 for whatever positive vision they give you 366 00:19:22,639 --> 00:19:24,032 about the true nature of things, 367 00:19:24,772 --> 00:19:26,295 do manage to undermine 368 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,471 your sense that the everyday world 369 00:19:28,645 --> 00:19:33,476 is at all a coherent, realistic operation. 370 00:19:33,737 --> 00:19:37,045 And that's quite a harrowing ride. 371 00:19:38,525 --> 00:19:41,310 [wall crashes away] 372 00:19:44,966 --> 00:19:46,315 I could probably put together a list 373 00:19:46,489 --> 00:19:49,797 of all the various small synchronicities 374 00:19:49,971 --> 00:19:51,277 that kept popping up, 375 00:19:51,929 --> 00:19:53,540 but they were just so mundane, but there was so many of them 376 00:19:53,714 --> 00:19:56,934 that eventually I took one of these, 377 00:19:57,587 --> 00:19:59,720 you know, a particularly auspicious day, 378 00:19:59,894 --> 00:20:01,417 I guess, for myself. 379 00:20:01,983 --> 00:20:04,725 And decided I was going to do a sensory deprivation tank. 380 00:20:06,466 --> 00:20:08,207 Which is not something I had done before. 381 00:20:08,859 --> 00:20:09,991 But it was just... 382 00:20:11,558 --> 00:20:15,083 something that felt like it'd be an interesting experience. 383 00:20:15,649 --> 00:20:16,954 And so, I did that. 384 00:20:17,259 --> 00:20:19,479 And there's a guy in New York here, 385 00:20:19,653 --> 00:20:21,045 on 23rd Street 386 00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:22,221 who has a sensory deprivation tank 387 00:20:22,395 --> 00:20:23,744 in his apartment, 388 00:20:24,005 --> 00:20:25,136 which is a strange thing, but you go in, 389 00:20:25,311 --> 00:20:27,269 he gives you the spiel. 390 00:20:27,748 --> 00:20:29,576 You ask him any questions, and then you go into it. 391 00:20:30,794 --> 00:20:32,753 And I, never having had done this before, 392 00:20:32,927 --> 00:20:34,842 I kind of went into it 393 00:20:35,016 --> 00:20:36,670 not really knowing what to expect. 394 00:20:36,887 --> 00:20:38,541 But he said, just sort of ask for what you want 395 00:20:38,715 --> 00:20:40,804 or ask for, you know, what you'd like to know. 396 00:20:40,978 --> 00:20:43,154 And the sense I got was like, 397 00:20:43,329 --> 00:20:44,852 "Yes, I'm asking the universe, or whatever 398 00:20:45,026 --> 00:20:46,593 but I'm also really asking myself." 399 00:20:46,767 --> 00:20:49,683 And maybe those aren't different things, right? 400 00:20:59,083 --> 00:21:00,476 The first few minutes were very... 401 00:21:01,695 --> 00:21:03,349 I was very aware of where I was. 402 00:21:03,523 --> 00:21:04,915 But after a few more minutes, 403 00:21:05,699 --> 00:21:08,049 I sort of stopped sensing my body. 404 00:21:08,354 --> 00:21:10,921 I could now hear my eyelids. 405 00:21:11,182 --> 00:21:12,662 I could actually hear what I thought might be 406 00:21:12,836 --> 00:21:14,360 my nervous system. 407 00:21:14,751 --> 00:21:17,145 I kinda, in that state, had to come out, and said, 408 00:21:17,667 --> 00:21:19,147 "Listen, I get the sense 409 00:21:19,321 --> 00:21:20,888 that you're trying to tell me something." 410 00:21:21,628 --> 00:21:24,108 I'm not sure I even knew who the "you" was I was talking to. 411 00:21:24,283 --> 00:21:26,328 I don't know if it was the universe or... 412 00:21:26,763 --> 00:21:29,549 I'm also an ordained minister, so I was raised with that. 413 00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:31,594 So there's, you know, 414 00:21:31,768 --> 00:21:33,161 there's a God part of it for me. 415 00:21:34,597 --> 00:21:36,599 [machine whirring] 416 00:21:36,773 --> 00:21:37,948 Brother Mystwood: Just sort of asking it, 417 00:21:38,122 --> 00:21:39,559 come out, just come out 418 00:21:39,733 --> 00:21:40,951 and do what it is you'd like to say. 419 00:21:41,212 --> 00:21:42,562 [machine whirring] 420 00:21:43,171 --> 00:21:45,260 [dramatic music playing] 421 00:21:54,313 --> 00:21:57,272 Yeah, and I'm not a New Age guy at all. 422 00:21:57,446 --> 00:21:59,056 Or at least I wasn't before I did this. 423 00:21:59,230 --> 00:22:01,972 But my head started to buzz. 424 00:22:02,321 --> 00:22:05,454 My forehead just started to violent pounding. 425 00:22:05,715 --> 00:22:08,675 A swirling buzz that I-- 426 00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:10,764 I felt like I opened up, 427 00:22:10,938 --> 00:22:12,592 and I just became aware like, "Okay 428 00:22:13,201 --> 00:22:15,595 I am not a body at all, I am a code. 429 00:22:15,856 --> 00:22:18,032 I am a string of letters and numbers 430 00:22:18,206 --> 00:22:19,686 and acids, and so forth. 431 00:22:19,860 --> 00:22:21,340 And I knew this, of course, from DNA, 432 00:22:21,514 --> 00:22:24,212 but more than that, it means, you know, 433 00:22:24,952 --> 00:22:28,303 - nothing on me is real." - [shattering] 434 00:22:29,304 --> 00:22:31,045 Brother Mystwood: And nothing on anyone is real. 435 00:22:31,219 --> 00:22:33,656 I'm pattern, I'm a code constantly replicating itself. 436 00:22:33,830 --> 00:22:36,137 I'm a vibration, and that's what it is. 437 00:22:36,355 --> 00:22:37,660 Got out of the tank 438 00:22:37,921 --> 00:22:39,183 and I started talking to the guy. 439 00:22:41,272 --> 00:22:42,535 And he was talking about, 440 00:22:42,709 --> 00:22:43,666 "Oh, it's your third eye opening 441 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:45,451 and sometimes that happens" 442 00:22:45,625 --> 00:22:47,104 And I asked him, "Well, what do I do with that?" 443 00:22:47,278 --> 00:22:48,236 And he's like, "I don't know. Enjoy it." 444 00:22:50,978 --> 00:22:53,937 I've always had a little bit of a sense of this, 445 00:22:54,111 --> 00:22:55,461 but this is the big event. 446 00:23:00,248 --> 00:23:01,771 I was about 11 or 12... 447 00:23:02,859 --> 00:23:04,948 and I'm adopted. 448 00:23:05,471 --> 00:23:07,429 - I'm a pastor's son. - [pipe organ playing] 449 00:23:08,038 --> 00:23:09,605 Paul: My adopted dad is a pastor, 450 00:23:09,779 --> 00:23:11,302 so I go to church every Sunday. 451 00:23:11,912 --> 00:23:14,001 And I believe at this point in time, though, 452 00:23:14,175 --> 00:23:15,655 it wasn't a Sunday service. 453 00:23:15,829 --> 00:23:16,786 I think it was like an Advent service. 454 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,048 It was at nighttime. 455 00:23:18,788 --> 00:23:23,140 And most people have some reference for church, 456 00:23:23,314 --> 00:23:24,359 but in case you don't, 457 00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:27,144 there are people, they're dressed up 458 00:23:28,494 --> 00:23:30,844 and they're sitting in-- this is in the early 80s, 459 00:23:31,018 --> 00:23:33,368 so people dressed up more than they maybe do now. 460 00:23:33,803 --> 00:23:37,198 And they're seating in pews. Pews are like long benches. 461 00:23:38,286 --> 00:23:39,374 And they have their hymnals open, 462 00:23:39,548 --> 00:23:40,419 and they're singing. 463 00:23:40,593 --> 00:23:42,029 [people singing in church] 464 00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:45,075 Paul: And I look around at everyone singing 465 00:23:46,076 --> 00:23:50,429 and I think to myself, "The way we're making these noises, 466 00:23:51,125 --> 00:23:55,303 is that we have these meat flaps and we're forcing air 467 00:23:55,477 --> 00:23:57,871 through these meat flaps and we're making noise. 468 00:23:58,393 --> 00:23:59,960 And we're animals, basically, 469 00:24:00,134 --> 00:24:02,266 yet we put on all these clothes 470 00:24:02,484 --> 00:24:05,748 and we sit in this place, and we're making these noises 471 00:24:05,922 --> 00:24:07,489 by forcing air through our meat flaps," 472 00:24:07,881 --> 00:24:10,449 and I start thinking about how bodies move 473 00:24:10,797 --> 00:24:12,799 and how weird it is that they move that way. 474 00:24:13,147 --> 00:24:14,975 And just the absurdity of the situation 475 00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:17,064 keeps on going around, around in my head. 476 00:24:17,499 --> 00:24:20,023 And I'm like, "Oh, none of this is real. 477 00:24:20,197 --> 00:24:21,590 That's what's going on." 478 00:24:21,851 --> 00:24:23,418 And as soon as I had that realization, 479 00:24:23,766 --> 00:24:25,551 the only way I can describe it is, 480 00:24:25,899 --> 00:24:28,597 I was nowhere, I was nothing. 481 00:24:30,077 --> 00:24:33,559 I felt sort of like loneliness was a thing. 482 00:24:33,733 --> 00:24:35,952 I was the personification of it. 483 00:24:36,257 --> 00:24:39,129 I was cut off from everything. It was only me. 484 00:24:40,174 --> 00:24:43,960 And it was soul-crushing and claustrophobic. 485 00:24:44,787 --> 00:24:48,008 But I didn't see anything. It wasn't that I saw blackness. 486 00:24:48,182 --> 00:24:50,750 I wasn't seeing and I wasn't feeling. 487 00:24:50,967 --> 00:24:54,275 It was this almost negation of self 488 00:24:54,449 --> 00:24:55,885 except that I was there 489 00:24:56,364 --> 00:25:00,368 feeling this weird emptiness, this gone-ness. 490 00:25:08,811 --> 00:25:11,466 My entire life, I'm living with family, 491 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,034 and I'm real used to it. Specifically, my brother. 492 00:25:15,644 --> 00:25:17,254 And then I go off. 493 00:25:17,864 --> 00:25:19,996 You know, the parents are always like, "You're 18. 494 00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:21,258 We're kicking you out." 495 00:25:21,781 --> 00:25:23,304 But I kinda beat them to the punch 496 00:25:23,478 --> 00:25:25,262 because, like, the day after graduation, 497 00:25:25,436 --> 00:25:26,481 I was out of town. 498 00:25:26,742 --> 00:25:27,917 I had moved away. 499 00:25:28,091 --> 00:25:28,788 And I didn't come back for years. 500 00:25:30,398 --> 00:25:32,922 But during that time, I was just alone, you know. 501 00:25:33,096 --> 00:25:34,315 I lived with a friend, 502 00:25:34,576 --> 00:25:35,490 but I didn't have my brother with me. 503 00:25:36,709 --> 00:25:39,538 And all we would do for like two straight years 504 00:25:39,712 --> 00:25:40,582 is just play video games. 505 00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:42,366 I worked at a Chili's, 506 00:25:43,411 --> 00:25:45,282 and I would always come home, we would do stupid things 507 00:25:45,456 --> 00:25:50,026 like playGuitar Hero for two straight days, 508 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,422 or we would get a game and do it from front to back, 509 00:25:54,596 --> 00:25:56,380 and then just go back in and just beat it again. 510 00:25:57,251 --> 00:25:59,732 All the time, video games, for years and years, 511 00:26:00,863 --> 00:26:02,125 that's literally all I did. 512 00:26:03,431 --> 00:26:05,172 Didn't draw, didn't do anything. 513 00:26:12,658 --> 00:26:14,921 And so I got into a dark place there. 514 00:26:15,095 --> 00:26:17,837 It's like, "Maybe I'm stuck in this rut on purpose. 515 00:26:18,011 --> 00:26:20,100 Maybe it's not my design. It's whatever." 516 00:26:20,317 --> 00:26:22,015 I'm not religious at all, 517 00:26:22,406 --> 00:26:25,758 but how do I reconcile feeling like I'm in a rut, though? 518 00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:28,412 Like a preprogrammed rut. 519 00:26:28,935 --> 00:26:30,153 I have to go the science route. 520 00:26:31,154 --> 00:26:35,463 And the only really blending of religion in science there is 521 00:26:35,768 --> 00:26:38,161 would probably be a simulation theory, 522 00:26:38,988 --> 00:26:40,076 to be honest with you. 523 00:26:43,123 --> 00:26:44,603 Paul: When I had that first experience 524 00:26:44,777 --> 00:26:46,866 in the church, the analogy that I use is like, 525 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,173 let's say that your grandpa has a favorite radio. 526 00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:52,611 And he listens to it all the time, and all that. 527 00:26:52,785 --> 00:26:55,614 And one day, you decide to take that radio apart. 528 00:26:56,179 --> 00:26:57,572 And you're looking at all the pieces 529 00:26:58,138 --> 00:26:59,966 and "Hey, hey, I took this apart." 530 00:27:00,227 --> 00:27:02,533 And then you realize you can't put it back together again. 531 00:27:03,447 --> 00:27:05,058 That's the feeling that I had 532 00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:07,843 when I was in that sort of null state, if you will. 533 00:27:08,496 --> 00:27:10,019 And in my mind... 534 00:27:11,194 --> 00:27:14,981 that is what's outside of the simulation. 535 00:27:24,991 --> 00:27:26,557 Contemplating this possibility 536 00:27:26,732 --> 00:27:28,559 of a lateral arrangement of worlds, 537 00:27:29,735 --> 00:27:31,519 a plurality of overlapping Earths 538 00:27:31,693 --> 00:27:34,696 along whose linking axis a person can somehow move 539 00:27:35,044 --> 00:27:36,742 and travel in a mysterious way 540 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:38,961 from worst to fair to good to excellent. 541 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,660 Contemplating this in theological terms, 542 00:27:42,138 --> 00:27:45,272 perhaps we could say that here with we suddenly decipher 543 00:27:45,576 --> 00:27:48,057 the elliptical utterances which Christ expressed 544 00:27:48,231 --> 00:27:49,798 regarding the kingdom of God. 545 00:27:50,190 --> 00:27:51,931 Specifically, where it is located. 546 00:27:52,714 --> 00:27:54,760 He seems to have given contradictory 547 00:27:54,934 --> 00:27:55,978 and puzzling answers. 548 00:27:56,544 --> 00:27:58,981 But suppose, just suppose for an instant 549 00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:01,331 that the cause of the perplexity 550 00:28:01,549 --> 00:28:02,768 lay not in any desire 551 00:28:02,942 --> 00:28:04,813 on his part to baffle or to hide, 552 00:28:05,118 --> 00:28:07,033 but in the inadequacy of the question. 553 00:28:08,121 --> 00:28:09,688 "My kingdom is not of this world," 554 00:28:09,862 --> 00:28:11,298 he is reported to have said. 555 00:28:11,994 --> 00:28:14,823 "The kingdom is within you, or possibly it is among you." 556 00:28:16,216 --> 00:28:18,653 It was his mission to teach his disciples 557 00:28:19,045 --> 00:28:22,396 the secret of crossing along this orthogonal path. 558 00:28:23,005 --> 00:28:25,399 He did not merely report what lay there. 559 00:28:25,834 --> 00:28:27,488 He taught the method of getting there. 560 00:28:28,097 --> 00:28:30,099 But, tragically, the secret was lost. 561 00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:32,841 The enemy, the Roman authority, crushed it. 562 00:28:34,582 --> 00:28:36,715 When I sawStar Wars this morning 563 00:28:37,803 --> 00:28:38,804 I thought to myself... 564 00:28:40,501 --> 00:28:41,328 déjà vu. 565 00:28:46,637 --> 00:28:49,162 Paul: The simulation idea has been around way before 566 00:28:49,336 --> 00:28:52,034 all of us started thinking about computers. 567 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,646 The concept of people standing at the Pearly Gates 568 00:28:55,821 --> 00:28:57,779 and looking at their lives, right? 569 00:28:58,171 --> 00:29:02,828 What is that if not a debrief, if you will, 570 00:29:03,002 --> 00:29:05,265 after you get out of a simulation? 571 00:29:05,961 --> 00:29:08,050 Hey, Miller, look what I found. 572 00:29:08,311 --> 00:29:09,138 Wow. 573 00:29:10,183 --> 00:29:12,141 Realistic, isn't it, Mr. Miller? 574 00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:15,666 Nick Bostrom: René Descartes tried to build an epistemology 575 00:29:16,102 --> 00:29:19,148 from a foundation of skepticism and radical doubt. 576 00:29:19,627 --> 00:29:21,760 Narrator: I will suppose that some malicious demon 577 00:29:21,977 --> 00:29:24,110 has employed his energies to deceive me. 578 00:29:25,024 --> 00:29:27,809 I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth 579 00:29:28,027 --> 00:29:30,333 and all external things are merely the delusions 580 00:29:30,507 --> 00:29:32,727 which he has devised to ensnare my judgement. 581 00:29:33,989 --> 00:29:37,776 I shall consider myself as not having hands or flesh or senses 582 00:29:38,167 --> 00:29:40,604 but his falsely believing that I have all these things. 583 00:29:41,431 --> 00:29:43,912 A slightly more modern version of the same idea 584 00:29:44,086 --> 00:29:45,958 is the brain in a vat. Where, again, 585 00:29:46,567 --> 00:29:49,570 you try to challenge the philosopher 586 00:29:49,875 --> 00:29:51,485 to prove that the external world exists 587 00:29:51,659 --> 00:29:54,749 and that he or she is not a brain in a vat 588 00:29:55,141 --> 00:29:56,838 in some mad scientist's laboratory 589 00:29:57,012 --> 00:29:58,840 being kind of fed inputs 590 00:29:59,406 --> 00:30:01,190 that mimic what the external world 591 00:30:01,364 --> 00:30:02,583 would have done. 592 00:30:13,594 --> 00:30:14,987 It didn't really matter how realistic 593 00:30:15,161 --> 00:30:16,423 these thought experiments were. 594 00:30:16,597 --> 00:30:18,077 They were just logical possibilities, 595 00:30:18,294 --> 00:30:20,166 and the challenge was, how can you disprove them? 596 00:30:24,213 --> 00:30:25,388 Computer voice: One thousand years 597 00:30:25,562 --> 00:30:27,434 before Descartes' Evil Demon 598 00:30:27,695 --> 00:30:31,177 a similar idea was put forth in Ancient Greece by Plato. 599 00:30:32,004 --> 00:30:34,310 He describes, "Imagine, the situation. 600 00:30:34,833 --> 00:30:39,054 There are figures chained inside of a cave from birth. 601 00:30:39,228 --> 00:30:41,187 They have no experience of what's outside of it. 602 00:30:41,404 --> 00:30:42,753 They're looking at a wall, 603 00:30:43,232 --> 00:30:44,581 and on the wall they kind of see this projection." 604 00:30:45,191 --> 00:30:46,801 Orson Welles: You see men passing along the wall, 605 00:30:47,106 --> 00:30:49,064 carrying all sorts of articles 606 00:30:49,238 --> 00:30:51,284 which they hold projected above the wall. 607 00:30:51,675 --> 00:30:53,764 Statues of men and animals 608 00:30:53,939 --> 00:30:56,376 made of wood and stone and various materials. 609 00:31:00,859 --> 00:31:03,905 Of the objects, which are being carried in like manner, 610 00:31:04,601 --> 00:31:06,734 they would only see the shadows. 611 00:31:07,387 --> 00:31:08,736 Computer voice: Emily Pothast wrote about 612 00:31:08,910 --> 00:31:10,433 this parable's relevance 613 00:31:10,651 --> 00:31:12,827 to both simulation theory and other aspects 614 00:31:13,088 --> 00:31:15,830 of digital communications and miscommunications. 615 00:31:18,572 --> 00:31:20,400 Emily Pothast: It's a very cinematic metaphor, 616 00:31:20,574 --> 00:31:21,923 and I just love that, 617 00:31:22,532 --> 00:31:25,013 how that sort of imagination of how film affects us. 618 00:31:25,971 --> 00:31:29,235 And just like there's like that lossiness between 619 00:31:29,409 --> 00:31:32,238 what is really happening and what perception shows us, 620 00:31:32,455 --> 00:31:35,415 there's sort of lossiness between what media 621 00:31:35,589 --> 00:31:37,634 shows us and what the real world outside 622 00:31:37,808 --> 00:31:39,506 of that media representation is. 623 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,116 So now, 624 00:31:41,595 --> 00:31:43,118 it's not just what their senses decide to show them, 625 00:31:43,292 --> 00:31:44,859 it's what the media decides to show them. 626 00:31:45,077 --> 00:31:47,601 All: And this is extremely dangerous to our democracy. 627 00:31:48,341 --> 00:31:50,604 Erik Davis: Let's go back to Hindu myths. 628 00:31:54,869 --> 00:31:57,654 You find these incredible myths of like, you know, 629 00:31:57,916 --> 00:32:01,136 the king's going along and stops for a well and he drinks 630 00:32:01,310 --> 00:32:03,486 and then he goes and has a whole other existence, 631 00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:04,923 a whole other life. 632 00:32:05,271 --> 00:32:07,055 And then pop! He comes back in. 633 00:32:07,273 --> 00:32:09,536 And they'll even have worlds within worlds within worlds. 634 00:32:09,710 --> 00:32:12,147 So, you have the structure of worlds within worlds, 635 00:32:12,321 --> 00:32:13,496 and once you have that 636 00:32:13,888 --> 00:32:16,412 it undermines the primary world. 637 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,284 It really kind of crystalized for me 638 00:32:18,458 --> 00:32:20,025 when I started observing 639 00:32:20,199 --> 00:32:22,418 the experience of the villager in Minecraft. 640 00:32:24,116 --> 00:32:26,118 He's a massively simplified version of us. 641 00:32:26,422 --> 00:32:30,035 He has free will. He moves about the space as he sees fit. 642 00:32:30,383 --> 00:32:31,775 But the interesting thing, though, 643 00:32:31,993 --> 00:32:33,212 is for me what it was with the villager is, 644 00:32:33,777 --> 00:32:36,476 you know, what does he do when you, the avatar 645 00:32:37,390 --> 00:32:39,479 come down into the game ofMinecraft? 646 00:32:39,740 --> 00:32:41,829 When you inhabit your avatar inMinecraft 647 00:32:42,003 --> 00:32:43,613 and you descend to Earth, 648 00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:46,834 what does the villager do when you encounter him? 649 00:32:47,487 --> 00:32:49,358 He looks at you, you know? 650 00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,492 He looks at you as if you are the same as him. 651 00:32:52,666 --> 00:32:54,668 Of course, you're not. Because you are being controlled 652 00:32:55,147 --> 00:32:56,539 by an intelligence, a higher power. 653 00:32:57,323 --> 00:32:59,107 Alex Levine: It'd be hilarious if Elon Musk 654 00:32:59,281 --> 00:33:00,326 was a player character. 655 00:33:01,457 --> 00:33:03,024 And he just comes into the game, like, 656 00:33:03,198 --> 00:33:05,940 "Hey, you guys know... [chuckles] ...we're simulated." 657 00:33:07,246 --> 00:33:08,682 This could be some simulation. 658 00:33:08,856 --> 00:33:10,597 It could. Do you entertain that? 659 00:33:11,032 --> 00:33:12,773 Alex: But then he gets to log off, go back to... 660 00:33:13,904 --> 00:33:15,602 Artificer, heaven or whatever, 661 00:33:15,776 --> 00:33:19,345 and laugh with his weird extra-dimensional friends 662 00:33:19,823 --> 00:33:21,695 "Hey, I was just playing around 663 00:33:21,869 --> 00:33:23,305 with that simulation again today. 664 00:33:23,653 --> 00:33:25,525 And I keep dropping them hints, but no one's picking it up." 665 00:33:27,092 --> 00:33:28,397 Brother Mystwood: But it's interesting because, 666 00:33:28,745 --> 00:33:30,878 for me, the villager speaks to, 667 00:33:31,052 --> 00:33:33,489 there are a few different levels of what, you know 668 00:33:33,794 --> 00:33:34,969 being raised in the Christian faith, 669 00:33:35,143 --> 00:33:36,275 I would call God. 670 00:33:37,145 --> 00:33:38,929 There's the God who made the world, 671 00:33:39,147 --> 00:33:40,931 and then there's the avatar 672 00:33:41,149 --> 00:33:42,498 who's descending in front of you, and they're different 673 00:33:42,672 --> 00:33:44,109 because the God who made the world 674 00:33:44,283 --> 00:33:45,893 is not the person who's in front of you. 675 00:33:46,067 --> 00:33:47,329 We don't get to see that. We don't get to see 676 00:33:47,503 --> 00:33:49,114 the creator of the game. 677 00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:53,422 To extend this metaphor to perhaps ridiculous lengths. 678 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,946 You know, one minute, a pixel on your screen 679 00:33:56,512 --> 00:33:58,036 will be representing a flower. 680 00:33:59,037 --> 00:34:00,212 And it is that flower. 681 00:34:00,995 --> 00:34:02,518 And then the next minute, a villager will walk in, 682 00:34:02,692 --> 00:34:04,868 and that pixel represents him. 683 00:34:05,391 --> 00:34:06,696 That pixel is part of him. 684 00:34:06,914 --> 00:34:08,568 It doesn't take much to think about like, 685 00:34:08,742 --> 00:34:10,352 "Well, if I just extrapolate that to three dimensions, 686 00:34:11,484 --> 00:34:14,878 it's the same as atom is in cells. You know, one year 687 00:34:15,401 --> 00:34:16,576 this cell's part of me, 688 00:34:16,750 --> 00:34:18,012 and then tomorrow it'll flake off 689 00:34:18,186 --> 00:34:19,100 and it'll be part of something else. 690 00:34:19,274 --> 00:34:20,536 And every seven years, 691 00:34:20,754 --> 00:34:22,495 our cells replace themselves, anyway." 692 00:34:24,366 --> 00:34:25,715 Computer voice: Artist Chris Ware 693 00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:27,848 was so struck by the implications 694 00:34:28,022 --> 00:34:30,242 ofMinecraft that he created this cover illustration 695 00:34:30,416 --> 00:34:31,460 forThe New Yorker. 696 00:34:33,810 --> 00:34:34,985 Chris Ware: Video game itself... 697 00:34:36,291 --> 00:34:37,814 catches this sort of sense of... 698 00:34:38,859 --> 00:34:40,643 I don't know, more than anything just like death. 699 00:34:40,861 --> 00:34:42,428 Whenever I play it with my daughter, 700 00:34:42,602 --> 00:34:44,691 I feel like we're dead and we're flying around 701 00:34:44,865 --> 00:34:46,432 looking at the world or something. 702 00:34:46,606 --> 00:34:49,478 It's the only experience I've had that kind of 703 00:34:49,739 --> 00:34:51,785 closely approximates what I imagine 704 00:34:52,916 --> 00:34:55,832 a disembodied consciousness might experience, or something. 705 00:34:56,006 --> 00:34:57,443 I don't know how else to really put it. 706 00:34:58,835 --> 00:35:01,229 We build these peculiar sculptures. 707 00:35:01,403 --> 00:35:04,189 She built giant-- Well, "giant" is a relative term 708 00:35:04,363 --> 00:35:06,016 when you're talking digitally being reality. 709 00:35:06,191 --> 00:35:08,976 But giant sculptures of myself and my wife 710 00:35:09,498 --> 00:35:12,936 amidst kind of golden farmhouses 711 00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:16,114 that then would go underground, 712 00:35:16,766 --> 00:35:18,942 and train lines or mine cart lines 713 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:22,076 that would go underground and connect between... 714 00:35:24,774 --> 00:35:26,733 the landscape that kind of pre-existed. 715 00:35:28,561 --> 00:35:32,130 But now she's 14, so she's kind of passed beyond. 716 00:35:32,304 --> 00:35:34,654 But now she's in this sort of baroque phase 717 00:35:34,828 --> 00:35:36,699 where she and some of her friends 718 00:35:36,873 --> 00:35:38,614 now have gone back to Minecraft 719 00:35:38,788 --> 00:35:41,530 and are now looking at their worlds that they made 720 00:35:41,791 --> 00:35:44,490 in their preadolescence and kind of revisiting them, 721 00:35:44,664 --> 00:35:47,710 and listening to the music again and getting all tearful. 722 00:35:47,884 --> 00:35:49,930 So it's a 14-year-old nostalgia 723 00:35:50,104 --> 00:35:52,062 for a lost world of innocence, or something. 724 00:35:52,976 --> 00:35:56,806 I guess when she's 40 and I'm 85, or whatever 725 00:35:56,980 --> 00:36:01,159 and downloaded onto a flash drive 726 00:36:01,333 --> 00:36:03,161 we can continue to visit. 727 00:36:18,524 --> 00:36:20,700 Philip K. Dick: My relationship with the United States 728 00:36:20,917 --> 00:36:22,180 has always been a very bad one. 729 00:36:24,356 --> 00:36:26,096 It has always seemed to me 730 00:36:27,446 --> 00:36:30,405 that I was about to be arrested by the American police 731 00:36:30,927 --> 00:36:33,191 for some obscure reason. 732 00:36:33,365 --> 00:36:36,237 Perhaps that's because of reading Kafka'sThe Trial. 733 00:36:36,629 --> 00:36:38,805 That book influenced me very much. 734 00:36:39,066 --> 00:36:41,808 You know, where someone is arrested for a crime, 735 00:36:41,982 --> 00:36:44,289 and he's never told what crime he's committed. 736 00:36:48,031 --> 00:36:51,078 When I was a kid, and one of the things I really keyed into 737 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:55,256 was adults at the time would repeat things 738 00:36:55,952 --> 00:36:56,997 over and over again. 739 00:36:57,215 --> 00:36:58,346 For instance, Newsweekmagazine, 740 00:36:58,607 --> 00:37:00,087 my dad used to get it all the time. 741 00:37:00,957 --> 00:37:02,481 And we'd be sitting around the dinner table 742 00:37:03,743 --> 00:37:05,440 and he'd say, "Well, you know..." 743 00:37:05,614 --> 00:37:07,790 and then he'd say word for word 744 00:37:08,530 --> 00:37:11,794 a sentence that was read from theNewsweek magazine. 745 00:37:14,667 --> 00:37:16,451 So, it was like the magazine 746 00:37:17,060 --> 00:37:19,237 programmed him to say that thing. 747 00:37:19,411 --> 00:37:21,326 This wasn't an original thought that he had. 748 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:24,503 And that's really where it started, I guess. 749 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:29,725 You know, in my, like... early childhood, 750 00:37:29,899 --> 00:37:34,861 the concept that the people that I was dealing with were, 751 00:37:35,035 --> 00:37:38,256 I used the term "chemical robots" at the time, 752 00:37:38,908 --> 00:37:42,477 but the concept that they weren't actually conscious. 753 00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:44,914 They had these repeated behaviors 754 00:37:45,088 --> 00:37:46,699 that they would do over and over again. 755 00:37:50,833 --> 00:37:52,182 Computer voice: In his paper, 756 00:37:52,357 --> 00:37:53,793 Nick Bostrom defined a simulation 757 00:37:53,967 --> 00:37:56,143 of the entire mental history of mankind 758 00:37:56,317 --> 00:37:58,145 as an "ancestor simulation" 759 00:37:58,319 --> 00:38:01,670 when estimating the amount of computing power one might need. 760 00:38:03,672 --> 00:38:06,022 Rodney: Does the idea of ancestor simulations 761 00:38:06,196 --> 00:38:08,242 suggest that we are retracing the steps 762 00:38:08,416 --> 00:38:13,291 of the genuine society that created the simulation? 763 00:38:14,204 --> 00:38:16,598 Well, that's one possibility. 764 00:38:16,772 --> 00:38:18,557 There could also be all kinds of variations 765 00:38:19,775 --> 00:38:21,429 ranging from complete fantasy worlds 766 00:38:21,603 --> 00:38:23,126 that bear no resemblance 767 00:38:23,388 --> 00:38:26,347 to anything that existed in physical reality 768 00:38:26,565 --> 00:38:28,393 to variations of history. 769 00:38:30,917 --> 00:38:34,050 All of that is conceptually possible. 770 00:38:35,269 --> 00:38:38,490 But an ancestor simulation that I talk about in the paper 771 00:38:38,664 --> 00:38:41,406 which is to consider the type of simulation 772 00:38:41,580 --> 00:38:44,757 where the simulators would be creating 773 00:38:45,627 --> 00:38:47,934 very detailed simulations of people like 774 00:38:48,413 --> 00:38:50,676 their historical predecessors. 775 00:38:51,067 --> 00:38:53,287 Maybe not exactly the same people, 776 00:38:54,070 --> 00:38:55,594 but the same kind of people. 777 00:38:56,290 --> 00:38:59,946 Back when I was 9? Nine or 10, 778 00:39:00,425 --> 00:39:02,601 I used to joke about with my brothers and sister 779 00:39:03,166 --> 00:39:05,691 that people would just go home, and just like sit down 780 00:39:05,865 --> 00:39:07,345 and stare at walls while no one was watching. 781 00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:08,955 You know, they would just like... 782 00:39:10,478 --> 00:39:12,567 you know, go home and T-pose, effectively, 783 00:39:13,916 --> 00:39:15,527 in their private spaces when they weren't seen 784 00:39:15,701 --> 00:39:16,702 'cause they would just... 785 00:39:17,833 --> 00:39:19,618 deactivate their programming, I guess. 786 00:39:20,706 --> 00:39:23,056 I used to joke about that, but that idea ran with me 787 00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:24,536 a lot when I was older. 788 00:39:26,929 --> 00:39:28,235 It kind of became a little horrifying 789 00:39:28,844 --> 00:39:30,411 that these people I would talk to, 790 00:39:30,846 --> 00:39:33,327 since nobody was watching, the program would stop working. 791 00:39:44,164 --> 00:39:45,600 Does not assume that 792 00:39:46,732 --> 00:39:49,604 all the details of our world would be simulated 793 00:39:50,649 --> 00:39:53,042 to perfect subatomic precision all the time. 794 00:39:53,565 --> 00:39:55,349 And indeed, that kind of simulation 795 00:39:55,523 --> 00:39:57,830 might well be completely intractable. 796 00:39:58,657 --> 00:40:00,789 Obviously, it depends on the kind of computer power 797 00:40:00,963 --> 00:40:02,312 available in the basement simulators. 798 00:40:02,487 --> 00:40:04,358 If you have infinitely fast computers, sure. 799 00:40:04,793 --> 00:40:06,360 But, no, the idea rather 800 00:40:06,534 --> 00:40:07,927 is that you would be able to create 801 00:40:08,101 --> 00:40:11,365 a simulation capturing only enough that, 802 00:40:12,584 --> 00:40:13,976 to the simulated creatures, 803 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:15,674 they couldn't tell the difference. 804 00:40:15,978 --> 00:40:18,633 And that would involve some pretty clever footwork 805 00:40:18,807 --> 00:40:20,243 on behalf of the simulators 806 00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:22,071 that they would be able, for example, 807 00:40:22,245 --> 00:40:24,117 to leave more detail in a particular part of reality 808 00:40:24,291 --> 00:40:25,901 when we are paying attention. 809 00:40:26,380 --> 00:40:29,252 But then not simulating all of those details all the time. 810 00:40:31,211 --> 00:40:35,389 I'm occupying maybe 20 square feet? 811 00:40:36,477 --> 00:40:38,914 And yet there's a whole world that exists 812 00:40:39,175 --> 00:40:40,394 because I know about it. 813 00:40:41,003 --> 00:40:42,135 It is here in my brain. 814 00:40:43,136 --> 00:40:45,834 I worked with a company for a little while 815 00:40:46,008 --> 00:40:51,187 that launched what is now a very popular app 816 00:40:51,666 --> 00:40:54,843 that is an interactive fiction app. 817 00:40:55,191 --> 00:40:56,889 You know, there's an element of, "Well, it's just like writing 818 00:40:57,063 --> 00:40:59,848 a choose-your-own-adventure. But what became swiftly... 819 00:41:02,155 --> 00:41:03,112 obvious to me... 820 00:41:05,593 --> 00:41:08,248 how simple some of our own decision-making is, 821 00:41:08,466 --> 00:41:09,902 from a coding perspective. 822 00:41:11,381 --> 00:41:13,514 Computer voice: A popular recent Reddit AMA 823 00:41:13,688 --> 00:41:14,994 was with a user who wrote 824 00:41:15,734 --> 00:41:18,214 "I am a real life non-player character." 825 00:41:19,215 --> 00:41:21,740 And... all right, we're all good. 826 00:41:22,088 --> 00:41:24,351 So, a NPC 827 00:41:24,525 --> 00:41:27,963 is a non-player character that you will normally see 828 00:41:28,137 --> 00:41:29,312 in a video game. 829 00:41:30,052 --> 00:41:33,360 They're usually the people thataren't controlled 830 00:41:33,665 --> 00:41:36,581 by the player of the video game. 831 00:41:36,929 --> 00:41:40,367 They are the characters that were programmed in there. 832 00:41:41,847 --> 00:41:44,327 It's kind of like talking to a person in real life, 833 00:41:44,632 --> 00:41:48,375 but they only have a set amount of things that they can say. 834 00:41:48,723 --> 00:41:51,770 Hey, buddy, got a dead cat in there or what? 835 00:41:52,205 --> 00:41:53,815 And you only have specific lines 836 00:41:53,989 --> 00:41:55,730 that you can say back to it in response. 837 00:41:59,342 --> 00:42:01,562 I can only imagine if I was really a gamer, 838 00:42:01,997 --> 00:42:04,043 how I would experience social interaction. 839 00:42:04,260 --> 00:42:07,481 But even as a non-game player, I sometimes find myself 840 00:42:07,699 --> 00:42:10,310 you know, dealing with non-player characters. 841 00:42:11,093 --> 00:42:16,490 I work at a grocery store, and I have a specific... 842 00:42:17,752 --> 00:42:19,711 list of things that I need to accomplish 843 00:42:19,928 --> 00:42:22,801 when greeting a customer and checking out their items. 844 00:42:24,498 --> 00:42:27,893 And because of that, it just made logical sense 845 00:42:28,067 --> 00:42:30,330 that I create kind of a mental script 846 00:42:30,504 --> 00:42:32,027 that I go through with each customer. 847 00:42:32,201 --> 00:42:33,420 Brother Mystwood: When this stimuli happens 848 00:42:33,594 --> 00:42:35,291 to him, generally speaking, 849 00:42:35,553 --> 00:42:36,989 he reacts in this way. 850 00:42:37,206 --> 00:42:39,078 It's not terribly different from 851 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,515 the code that tells the chickens 852 00:42:41,689 --> 00:42:43,038 ofMinecraft what to do 853 00:42:43,212 --> 00:42:44,823 or the turtles inMario Brothers, 854 00:42:44,997 --> 00:42:47,695 or the mosquitoes of me. 855 00:42:47,956 --> 00:42:49,349 You know, they're all kind of 856 00:42:49,523 --> 00:42:50,480 operating on the same principles. 857 00:42:51,133 --> 00:42:53,005 If this then that, if not then don't. 858 00:42:53,222 --> 00:42:54,746 It's not too much of a leap to think that 859 00:42:55,094 --> 00:42:56,748 consciousness may mean... 860 00:42:58,793 --> 00:43:00,099 we are being inhabited 861 00:43:00,273 --> 00:43:03,189 by some sort of player-type intelligence. 862 00:43:03,537 --> 00:43:05,757 The reason everyone loves to be like, 863 00:43:05,931 --> 00:43:08,455 "Oh, small world," is because it is, actually. 864 00:43:08,629 --> 00:43:10,326 There just isn't enough processing power 865 00:43:10,500 --> 00:43:13,155 to render seven billion consciousnesses. 866 00:43:14,026 --> 00:43:16,332 There are not seven billion consciousnesses. 867 00:43:16,506 --> 00:43:18,073 Yeah, there might be seven billion 868 00:43:18,291 --> 00:43:20,902 in the general algorithm of how many people are on Earth. 869 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:22,643 But when you start talking to people, 870 00:43:22,861 --> 00:43:25,559 there's probably like a couple hundred thousand AI's, 871 00:43:25,994 --> 00:43:30,912 that are serving as the substream for the, you know, 872 00:43:31,565 --> 00:43:34,176 "people you know" experience that everyone's having on Earth. 873 00:43:34,350 --> 00:43:37,049 So, when you find that you know the same people, 874 00:43:37,223 --> 00:43:40,182 or six degrees of separation, it's just not a surprise at all. 875 00:43:40,356 --> 00:43:42,358 In fact, it's a flaw in the system. 876 00:43:42,620 --> 00:43:44,883 And that's just the limit of the actual processing power 877 00:43:45,057 --> 00:43:46,841 of the machine that the sims running on. 878 00:43:48,147 --> 00:43:49,061 Rodney: Well, have you ever encountered 879 00:43:49,757 --> 00:43:51,150 a non-player characters? 880 00:43:51,933 --> 00:43:53,500 Alex: I mean, you encounter them all the time 881 00:43:53,674 --> 00:43:54,936 when you're walking down the street 882 00:43:55,110 --> 00:43:56,546 and you don't interact with people. 883 00:43:56,721 --> 00:43:58,548 Like, it's just like in a video game. 884 00:43:58,766 --> 00:44:00,725 It's just, there's much less processing power 885 00:44:00,899 --> 00:44:03,031 being attributed to the automatons. 886 00:44:03,989 --> 00:44:05,425 But once you start interacting, 887 00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:07,732 then something has to actually serve 888 00:44:07,906 --> 00:44:13,041 as the intelligence behind that so-called human. 889 00:44:15,261 --> 00:44:18,003 Society is rapidly secularizing. 890 00:44:18,177 --> 00:44:20,440 You know, religion is completely falling apart. 891 00:44:22,007 --> 00:44:24,357 And there's elements of that that are wonderful. 892 00:44:25,010 --> 00:44:26,228 You know, I think religion plays 893 00:44:27,752 --> 00:44:30,842 an overly restrictive role in people's lives too often. 894 00:44:32,147 --> 00:44:33,671 Certainly, the religion I was raised in does. 895 00:44:34,062 --> 00:44:35,542 But I do know people 896 00:44:36,761 --> 00:44:38,284 from my childhood 897 00:44:38,458 --> 00:44:40,503 in a fairly Evangelical Christian world 898 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:45,030 who, you know, wanted to... 899 00:44:45,247 --> 00:44:47,075 would've committed violent acts, 900 00:44:47,423 --> 00:44:50,122 if only God... 901 00:44:51,384 --> 00:44:53,255 if only God wouldn't punish them for it. 902 00:44:53,516 --> 00:44:54,909 Now, why it takes God to do that, 903 00:44:55,083 --> 00:44:57,259 as opposed to one's own honor 904 00:44:57,433 --> 00:44:59,261 and self-worth and love for thy neighbor, I don't know. 905 00:44:59,435 --> 00:45:00,610 But that was case for me. 906 00:45:01,350 --> 00:45:02,700 I believe that this thought, 907 00:45:02,917 --> 00:45:04,397 that we are living in a simulation, 908 00:45:04,614 --> 00:45:06,921 I think that is going to just increase in popularity. 909 00:45:07,792 --> 00:45:10,708 And for people who are content to see 910 00:45:10,882 --> 00:45:12,100 both sides of an argument 911 00:45:12,318 --> 00:45:14,015 and that doesn't split our heads in two, 912 00:45:14,842 --> 00:45:17,584 you know, for people who are content to see shades of grey, 913 00:45:17,802 --> 00:45:20,587 I think that's a fine... it's a fine idea. 914 00:45:20,761 --> 00:45:23,155 Because we don't... you know, it doesn't change anything 915 00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:25,026 about my daily life, necessarily. 916 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,203 And it shouldn't. So I find the simulation okay. 917 00:45:28,726 --> 00:45:31,206 So, if I was created by a creator God, okay. 918 00:45:31,380 --> 00:45:33,731 So, if I'm a random sparking of cells, okay, fine. 919 00:45:33,905 --> 00:45:36,037 It doesn't change much about how I am living day to day. 920 00:45:37,256 --> 00:45:40,215 But there's a lot of people with very absolutist mindsets, 921 00:45:40,563 --> 00:45:44,350 and I think once you tell them, "Hey, you're a simulation," 922 00:45:45,743 --> 00:45:47,614 the nihilistic side of humanity, 923 00:45:47,788 --> 00:45:49,311 their first reaction would be 924 00:45:49,703 --> 00:45:51,009 "Well, it doesn't matter what they do to anyone else, 925 00:45:51,923 --> 00:45:54,186 because I know that I'm real, and I feel it." 926 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:55,753 But if there's no proof that they're real, 927 00:45:57,058 --> 00:45:59,278 you know, then what's the point of laws? 928 00:45:59,452 --> 00:46:00,932 What's the point of all this, you know? 929 00:46:05,675 --> 00:46:09,592 I do honestly think there is a certain degree of... 930 00:46:11,333 --> 00:46:12,987 inability to separate real world 931 00:46:13,161 --> 00:46:14,162 from digital realities 932 00:46:14,467 --> 00:46:16,121 when you have something like 933 00:46:16,425 --> 00:46:19,559 the shooter in New Zealand live-streaming what he's doing 934 00:46:19,777 --> 00:46:22,518 and going after people like he's in a first-person shooter. 935 00:46:22,736 --> 00:46:25,826 And going after the people who were like Muslims or, you know, 936 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:27,349 people shoot up synagogues. 937 00:46:27,959 --> 00:46:30,091 Going after someone who is constructed as an "other" 938 00:46:30,265 --> 00:46:32,354 by the media that they consume. 939 00:46:34,052 --> 00:46:37,446 We must meet the threat with our valor, our blood, 940 00:46:37,707 --> 00:46:39,535 indeed, with our very lives 941 00:46:40,014 --> 00:46:42,712 to ensure that human civilization, 942 00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:44,192 not insect, 943 00:46:44,802 --> 00:46:48,631 dominates this galaxy now and always! 944 00:46:49,458 --> 00:46:52,331 Emily: However, you end up sort of in that place 945 00:46:52,940 --> 00:46:55,987 where everyone you shoot at just kind of disappears 946 00:46:56,161 --> 00:46:57,640 and they were all pod people, you know, 947 00:46:57,815 --> 00:46:59,642 and they weren't real, or the NPC meme, 948 00:46:59,904 --> 00:47:02,558 you get into a place where you kind of treat reality 949 00:47:02,863 --> 00:47:05,213 like these are digital, disposable bodies. 950 00:47:17,312 --> 00:47:18,748 Jesse: And so one guy might plug in, 951 00:47:18,923 --> 00:47:20,228 he's Kanye West. 952 00:47:20,707 --> 00:47:22,491 One person might plug in, instead of doing that, 953 00:47:22,665 --> 00:47:25,712 he's Michael Phelps. 954 00:47:26,234 --> 00:47:29,672 They plug in and they play and they stay at the top level 955 00:47:29,847 --> 00:47:32,371 in some way that they can, doing different exploits. 956 00:47:33,328 --> 00:47:35,809 But then you have people who log in, 957 00:47:35,983 --> 00:47:37,985 they used to play a lot and they were really good, 958 00:47:38,159 --> 00:47:40,248 but then they unplugged and didn't come back. 959 00:47:40,422 --> 00:47:42,294 Years and years since they were plugged in our reality 960 00:47:42,468 --> 00:47:45,384 would be a celebrity who was really good, 961 00:47:45,863 --> 00:47:47,995 and then just fell from grace and never really came back. 962 00:47:48,169 --> 00:47:51,303 I can't name a specific celebrity here, 963 00:47:51,477 --> 00:47:54,175 plus I don't want to throw that into your film. 964 00:47:54,915 --> 00:47:58,310 Anyway, so they would go totally like, 965 00:47:58,527 --> 00:47:59,964 they'd be going straight 966 00:48:00,181 --> 00:48:01,443 and all of a sudden they'll be doing something 967 00:48:01,617 --> 00:48:02,749 that's totally perpendicular 968 00:48:02,923 --> 00:48:04,229 to their normal behavior patterns. 969 00:48:04,707 --> 00:48:07,754 'Cause in a video game, you're doing it well... 970 00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:10,452 then all of a sudden, you just get bored 971 00:48:10,844 --> 00:48:12,846 and you start doing something totally different. 972 00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:14,413 I've done that myself, you know. 973 00:48:14,587 --> 00:48:15,980 I'm playing Grand Theft Auto and... 974 00:48:16,545 --> 00:48:19,200 you know, you have millions and millions of dollars 975 00:48:19,374 --> 00:48:21,115 and all of a sudden it's like, "Yeah, okay... 976 00:48:21,376 --> 00:48:23,248 I think I'm gonna hole up in this apartment building... 977 00:48:23,422 --> 00:48:25,859 and just see how many police I can get to try to kill me." 978 00:48:26,599 --> 00:48:29,428 You know, then you kind of just go for something crazy. 979 00:48:36,304 --> 00:48:38,263 Paul: I once said to my uncle... 980 00:48:39,438 --> 00:48:41,222 "What if this is all fake? 981 00:48:41,483 --> 00:48:42,963 You know, what if none of this is real?" 982 00:48:43,137 --> 00:48:45,009 And he said, "Well, then what's to keep me 983 00:48:45,183 --> 00:48:47,968 from going door to door just shooting people in the head?" 984 00:48:48,751 --> 00:48:51,754 "Or what's to keep me from, you know, shooting you?" 985 00:48:51,972 --> 00:48:56,324 And it always struck me as, "Is that what you want to do?" 986 00:48:56,934 --> 00:49:00,285 "Is the only thing keeping you from doing that 987 00:49:00,981 --> 00:49:04,289 the fact that the world is real and there are consequences?" 988 00:49:07,161 --> 00:49:09,033 Did you see that video of the gentleman 989 00:49:09,207 --> 00:49:10,251 on the East Coast... 990 00:49:10,991 --> 00:49:11,992 West Coast, I'm sorry, 991 00:49:12,558 --> 00:49:14,299 who, he hijacked... 992 00:49:16,214 --> 00:49:18,520 a commercial air flight that was empty? 993 00:49:19,130 --> 00:49:20,261 It was just him onboard, 994 00:49:20,783 --> 00:49:22,437 and he had no training whatsoever. 995 00:49:23,699 --> 00:49:25,658 And he started just flying around the coast. 996 00:49:28,966 --> 00:49:30,271 Woman: What the hell? 997 00:49:31,969 --> 00:49:34,232 Oh, my God. What is happening right now? 998 00:49:34,449 --> 00:49:35,276 Did you ever see that? 999 00:49:49,073 --> 00:49:51,075 He's flying and he's talking about things. 1000 00:49:52,032 --> 00:49:53,164 Hijacker: [over radio] This is probably like 1001 00:49:53,338 --> 00:49:54,730 jail time for life, huh? 1002 00:49:54,948 --> 00:49:57,124 I would hope it is for a guy like me. 1003 00:50:03,435 --> 00:50:04,958 Jesse: One of the things he's doing is 1004 00:50:06,003 --> 00:50:07,569 he's kind of breaking people's perceptions 1005 00:50:07,743 --> 00:50:11,486 'cause he's doing stuff like, he's doing loops and what not. 1006 00:50:12,052 --> 00:50:13,662 He's getting remarkably close to the ground. 1007 00:50:13,836 --> 00:50:15,534 He's over the ocean, over the land. 1008 00:50:16,187 --> 00:50:17,362 He's doing tricks. 1009 00:50:20,974 --> 00:50:22,845 Control: [over radio] Just flying the plane around, 1010 00:50:23,063 --> 00:50:24,586 do you seem comfortable with that? 1011 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,284 Hijacker: [over radio] Oh, hell yeah. It's a blast. 1012 00:50:26,501 --> 00:50:28,460 I've played video games before, so... 1013 00:50:28,764 --> 00:50:31,289 I... I know what I'm doing a little bit. 1014 00:50:37,121 --> 00:50:40,385 And this is shortly before he crashes purposefully 1015 00:50:40,602 --> 00:50:43,431 into a, I believe an island. 1016 00:50:45,042 --> 00:50:46,217 Just offshore. 1017 00:50:47,914 --> 00:50:50,612 But yeah, it's nuts, that one of his last thoughts 1018 00:50:50,786 --> 00:50:53,659 is how much it's like a video game to him. 1019 00:50:54,747 --> 00:50:55,617 Then he crashes. 1020 00:51:03,843 --> 00:51:07,325 But yeah, there is a dark side. 1021 00:51:07,499 --> 00:51:08,804 There's people out there 1022 00:51:08,978 --> 00:51:10,241 who are gonna be chaotic about it. 1023 00:51:26,387 --> 00:51:28,085 Philip: ...very pronounced impression 1024 00:51:28,259 --> 00:51:32,611 would probably occur to us, to many of us, again and again 1025 00:51:32,872 --> 00:51:35,092 and always without explanation. 1026 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,227 The acute, absolute sensation that we had done once before 1027 00:51:40,836 --> 00:51:42,838 what we were just about to do now. 1028 00:51:43,100 --> 00:51:45,450 We would have the overwhelming impression 1029 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,063 that we were reliving the present. Déjà vu. 1030 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,110 Déjà vu. 1031 00:51:56,243 --> 00:51:58,637 - Switch. Apoc. - What is it? 1032 00:51:58,854 --> 00:52:00,639 A déjà vu is usually a glitch in the matrix. 1033 00:52:01,030 --> 00:52:02,380 It happens when they change something. 1034 00:52:03,076 --> 00:52:05,296 What we need at this point is to locate, 1035 00:52:05,470 --> 00:52:06,819 to bring forth as evidence 1036 00:52:07,254 --> 00:52:09,300 someone who has managed somehow, 1037 00:52:09,648 --> 00:52:10,823 it doesn't matter how, 1038 00:52:11,606 --> 00:52:14,043 to retain memories of a different present. 1039 00:52:14,435 --> 00:52:16,524 Latent, alternate world impressions, 1040 00:52:16,698 --> 00:52:18,657 different in some significant way from this. 1041 00:52:19,092 --> 00:52:20,441 Computer voice: Philip K. Dick might have been 1042 00:52:20,615 --> 00:52:21,964 surprised to learn 1043 00:52:22,269 --> 00:52:24,010 how common memories of a different present 1044 00:52:24,184 --> 00:52:26,360 would become in the 21st Century. 1045 00:52:26,839 --> 00:52:29,015 If you remember a Kit-Kat looking like this... 1046 00:52:29,450 --> 00:52:31,713 then you could be living in an alternate reality. 1047 00:52:32,671 --> 00:52:34,542 Welcome to "Conspiracy Chat N'That." 1048 00:52:34,847 --> 00:52:36,414 Today's topic is the mind-warping, 1049 00:52:36,588 --> 00:52:38,329 reality-bending Mandela Effect. 1050 00:52:38,546 --> 00:52:40,069 It's called the Mandela Effect 1051 00:52:40,244 --> 00:52:42,246 because hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people 1052 00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:45,771 remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison, 1053 00:52:45,945 --> 00:52:47,642 and that actually never happened. 1054 00:52:47,816 --> 00:52:49,557 But hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people are like 1055 00:52:49,731 --> 00:52:51,342 "No, I remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison." 1056 00:52:51,559 --> 00:52:52,865 But like that never happened. 1057 00:52:53,257 --> 00:52:54,693 Lauren Clarke: [over video] So, when reports 1058 00:52:55,041 --> 00:52:55,868 of the former South African president's death 1059 00:52:56,042 --> 00:52:57,435 became news in 2013, 1060 00:52:57,609 --> 00:52:58,827 it re-sparked the previous debate 1061 00:52:59,001 --> 00:52:59,959 of whether or not we've somehow slid 1062 00:53:00,133 --> 00:53:02,048 into an alternate timeline. 1063 00:53:02,222 --> 00:53:04,137 Narrator: The Berenstein Bears children books have changed. 1064 00:53:04,398 --> 00:53:06,183 They used to be called "Berenstein Bears," 1065 00:53:06,357 --> 00:53:07,706 and now they've always been known as 1066 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:08,924 "The Berenstain Bears". 1067 00:53:09,403 --> 00:53:11,971 Over 10 thousand Mandela effects 1068 00:53:12,145 --> 00:53:14,408 have been logged and confirmed. 1069 00:53:14,669 --> 00:53:15,801 Tana Mongeau: If you go back 1070 00:53:15,975 --> 00:53:17,716 and literally find like a VHS tape 1071 00:53:17,890 --> 00:53:20,545 of like Snow White from 1998 1072 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:22,460 and you put it in a VHS player, 1073 00:53:22,634 --> 00:53:25,245 they say, "Magic mirror on the wall". 1074 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:30,337 Tell me! Tell me, bitch, that you do not fucking remember 1075 00:53:30,511 --> 00:53:32,034 "Mirror, mirror on the wall." 1076 00:53:32,209 --> 00:53:33,906 Well, that doesn't exist. Mandela Effect? 1077 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:35,951 Alternate reality? I think yes! 1078 00:53:51,924 --> 00:53:53,534 Alex: When I was young, I lived in Mexico. 1079 00:53:54,883 --> 00:53:56,145 Very young, like 10 years old. 1080 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,756 And then I returned there 1081 00:53:58,322 --> 00:54:00,715 for the summer with my mother once. 1082 00:54:01,803 --> 00:54:03,457 I was 18 years old, 1083 00:54:03,675 --> 00:54:05,154 and I really didn't know anybody. 1084 00:54:05,503 --> 00:54:07,418 I finally get a call from some friends, 1085 00:54:07,983 --> 00:54:09,028 friends of friends. 1086 00:54:09,202 --> 00:54:10,508 These guys pick me up, 1087 00:54:10,725 --> 00:54:14,033 and they're in a 1970 Jeep Wagoneer. 1088 00:54:15,121 --> 00:54:16,731 Big old machine. 1089 00:54:17,166 --> 00:54:19,473 It immediately becomes clear that they have been drinking 1090 00:54:19,647 --> 00:54:22,824 because they say, "Hey, help yourself to a beer." 1091 00:54:23,042 --> 00:54:24,652 And I look in the back of the Wagoneer, 1092 00:54:24,826 --> 00:54:26,437 and there's all these empties rolling around 1093 00:54:26,611 --> 00:54:28,830 and couldn't find a seat belt, and I just said, 1094 00:54:29,004 --> 00:54:30,310 "All right, fuck it," I opened a beer. 1095 00:54:31,093 --> 00:54:33,182 Then, we were driving down a major street 1096 00:54:33,357 --> 00:54:34,880 in a city called Cuernavaca. 1097 00:54:35,402 --> 00:54:38,057 It had a cement divider between the two sides... 1098 00:54:38,231 --> 00:54:40,146 - [car revving] - ...and the driver 1099 00:54:40,755 --> 00:54:44,672 for shits and giggles decided to pop-- 1100 00:54:45,107 --> 00:54:47,806 in an opening, pop onto the wrong direction 1101 00:54:48,459 --> 00:54:50,591 and drive until there was another opening. 1102 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,898 So we were driving against traffic 1103 00:54:53,202 --> 00:54:54,639 in the wrong side 1104 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,252 and no cars came, you know, we didn't get in an accident. 1105 00:54:59,426 --> 00:55:02,690 So that was the first near miss but I don't count that. 1106 00:55:02,995 --> 00:55:04,344 And so we headed off. 1107 00:55:04,518 --> 00:55:06,041 They-- We went to a liquor store. 1108 00:55:06,215 --> 00:55:08,217 They bought some more liquor. 1109 00:55:09,436 --> 00:55:12,483 They said, "What should we do? Let's go to the pyramids." 1110 00:55:12,657 --> 00:55:16,574 So there was a pyramid in town, and so we head over... 1111 00:55:16,748 --> 00:55:19,054 we climb a fence, we're walking on a Mexican pyramid. 1112 00:55:19,838 --> 00:55:21,579 It's, you know, it's... 1113 00:55:22,884 --> 00:55:24,756 kind of an awesome experience in and of itself. 1114 00:55:26,671 --> 00:55:28,281 And they're getting bored. 1115 00:55:28,455 --> 00:55:30,936 They say, "All right, that's it. Let's go home." 1116 00:55:31,153 --> 00:55:32,590 [bottle shatters] 1117 00:55:33,025 --> 00:55:34,505 And we get back in the Wagoneer, and in Mexico 1118 00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:36,115 at that time of year, this was summer, 1119 00:55:36,289 --> 00:55:39,205 they have monsoons that last five minutes. 1120 00:55:40,075 --> 00:55:43,818 Now the road's completely wet, and these guys are drunk 1121 00:55:43,992 --> 00:55:46,081 and I'm sitting in the back seat. 1122 00:55:47,735 --> 00:55:50,608 The driver says to the passenger, 1123 00:55:50,782 --> 00:55:54,699 "Hey, man, why don't you take the wheel for a sec?" 1124 00:55:55,395 --> 00:55:57,136 And I'm sitting in the back and I'm like... 1125 00:55:57,789 --> 00:55:59,573 "That's the worst idea I've ever heard!" 1126 00:55:59,747 --> 00:56:02,228 But it's too late, right? It's too late. 1127 00:56:03,011 --> 00:56:05,884 - And he grabs the wheel... - [tires screeching] 1128 00:56:06,058 --> 00:56:09,061 ...and the car hits the side of the road right away, 1129 00:56:09,409 --> 00:56:11,455 but hits the curve and slides-- 1130 00:56:12,020 --> 00:56:13,326 So it hits one side of the street 1131 00:56:13,500 --> 00:56:15,459 and slides in the other direction, 1132 00:56:15,676 --> 00:56:17,809 hits another curb and flies through the air... 1133 00:56:17,983 --> 00:56:19,332 [crash] 1134 00:56:19,854 --> 00:56:23,075 ...probably about a thousand feet through the air 1135 00:56:23,249 --> 00:56:24,990 and lands on the roof. 1136 00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,082 [crashes] 1137 00:56:30,343 --> 00:56:34,173 All the windows shattered, and I broke ribs... 1138 00:56:34,565 --> 00:56:37,481 'cause I took the impact of the roof. 1139 00:56:38,351 --> 00:56:40,962 And gasoline started pouring out of the car, 1140 00:56:41,136 --> 00:56:43,095 and I got the wind knocked out of me. 1141 00:56:43,312 --> 00:56:48,753 I crawled out of the window and got as far away as I could, 1142 00:56:48,927 --> 00:56:51,756 and then a truck pulls up. 1143 00:56:54,323 --> 00:56:57,109 And they say, "Oh, great. Banditos." 1144 00:56:57,283 --> 00:56:58,850 [police siren] 1145 00:56:59,241 --> 00:57:01,896 And then another car pulls up, and it's the Federales, 1146 00:57:02,244 --> 00:57:03,724 the Mexican police. 1147 00:57:03,985 --> 00:57:05,683 You know, thebanditos just leave. 1148 00:57:05,857 --> 00:57:07,380 And I'm like, "Oh, great, the police are here." 1149 00:57:07,598 --> 00:57:09,208 And they're like, "No, actually, it's worse. 1150 00:57:09,382 --> 00:57:10,514 It's worse that they're here." 1151 00:57:11,210 --> 00:57:13,908 "Once they learn that we've been drinking, 1152 00:57:14,082 --> 00:57:15,780 they're gonna arrest us all, 1153 00:57:15,997 --> 00:57:18,435 and then they're gonna ask for a big bribe for you, 1154 00:57:18,609 --> 00:57:19,523 because you're American." 1155 00:57:20,872 --> 00:57:22,526 So I was standing in the darkness, 1156 00:57:23,048 --> 00:57:25,050 and then another car pulls up. 1157 00:57:25,703 --> 00:57:28,053 A guy gets out, and he says... 1158 00:57:29,489 --> 00:57:32,318 "Excuse me. I am the chief accountant 1159 00:57:32,579 --> 00:57:34,625 of the Cuernavaca Police Department", 1160 00:57:34,973 --> 00:57:36,627 so the local city police. 1161 00:57:37,932 --> 00:57:40,892 And he knows about the corruption of the Federales. 1162 00:57:41,501 --> 00:57:47,246 And my hosts managed to get the information to him 1163 00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:50,684 that they had hidden an American in the darkness. 1164 00:57:51,816 --> 00:57:54,209 And they got me out of there. 1165 00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,561 But the whole thing, it seemed so... 1166 00:57:57,952 --> 00:58:01,956 so implausible that I had survived. 1167 00:58:02,479 --> 00:58:06,091 The likelihood of all of that was just so low. 1168 00:58:06,831 --> 00:58:09,442 Somebody's gotta be putting their hand on the scale 1169 00:58:09,660 --> 00:58:11,531 'cause I kinda just looked at it in terms of 1170 00:58:11,705 --> 00:58:14,795 the algorithm tweaking probabilities, 1171 00:58:15,100 --> 00:58:17,885 so that things are essentially more interesting 1172 00:58:19,017 --> 00:58:20,235 'cause it's a game. 1173 00:58:24,762 --> 00:58:28,069 Okay, so I think the first like "public" place where 1174 00:58:28,243 --> 00:58:31,246 I actually was able to put a name to an idea, 1175 00:58:32,073 --> 00:58:34,772 probably the Matrixmovies, you know? 1176 00:58:36,904 --> 00:58:40,778 You can't mention simulation without mentioning that. 1177 00:58:42,083 --> 00:58:44,564 The book he keeps all of his stuff in is... 1178 00:58:45,434 --> 00:58:47,349 what is it called, Simulation & Simulacra? 1179 00:58:49,177 --> 00:58:50,614 It's right there, beginning of the movie, 1180 00:58:50,788 --> 00:58:52,311 just throws it right in your face. 1181 00:58:52,790 --> 00:58:56,010 After the trilogy was over, they released that animation 1182 00:58:56,837 --> 00:58:58,056 The Animatrix. 1183 00:58:58,404 --> 00:59:01,015 Yeah, I think that one really hit it home. 1184 00:59:01,189 --> 00:59:02,364 Like, the idea was planted 1185 00:59:02,539 --> 00:59:04,497 and that thing really pressed on it. 1186 00:59:05,454 --> 00:59:08,849 InRenaissance, Part I and II, it's kinda hosted by 1187 00:59:09,197 --> 00:59:11,069 almost like this technology demigod. 1188 00:59:11,983 --> 00:59:13,811 Just kind of bringing you in and out of reality. 1189 00:59:14,333 --> 00:59:16,901 You know, as far as like what's going on inside the Matrix, 1190 00:59:17,075 --> 00:59:18,685 what's going on outside the Matrix, 1191 00:59:18,859 --> 00:59:21,427 the history of how the simulation was built. 1192 00:59:25,779 --> 00:59:27,346 Paul: I moved to Canada, 1193 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,043 I lived in Canada for a couple of months. 1194 00:59:29,348 --> 00:59:35,006 And so my friend from Illinois drives up to Canada, 1195 00:59:35,354 --> 00:59:36,703 we're hanging out. 1196 00:59:36,877 --> 00:59:38,400 "What do you want to see?" "I don't know. 1197 00:59:38,618 --> 00:59:40,577 Let's go and see this dumb Keanu Reeves action film." 1198 00:59:43,057 --> 00:59:45,146 So we go and see this movie 1199 00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,713 and it's pretty good, pretty good, pretty good. 1200 00:59:46,887 --> 00:59:48,410 And then he gets out of the tank, 1201 00:59:50,021 --> 00:59:51,457 and we're like, "Whoa!" 1202 00:59:57,985 --> 00:59:59,291 Computer voice: Joshua Cooke 1203 00:59:59,465 --> 01:00:00,858 was a Virginia high school student 1204 01:00:01,032 --> 01:00:02,294 when he heard about the film. 1205 01:00:05,253 --> 01:00:07,038 Joshua Cooke: [over phone] So, I was riding in a car 1206 01:00:07,429 --> 01:00:10,476 on the way home, and a friend of mine 1207 01:00:10,737 --> 01:00:12,391 - was in the car. -Get in. 1208 01:00:12,696 --> 01:00:14,393 Joshua: [over phone] She mentioned this movie 1209 01:00:14,567 --> 01:00:16,917 Matrix that people were going crazy over. 1210 01:00:17,091 --> 01:00:18,571 People were going to the movie theaters 1211 01:00:18,745 --> 01:00:20,399 15 times in a row to see it. 1212 01:00:21,226 --> 01:00:23,489 And that people were getting obsessed about it, 1213 01:00:23,663 --> 01:00:24,664 raving about it. 1214 01:00:24,838 --> 01:00:26,405 "Oh, man, you gotta see it! 1215 01:00:26,797 --> 01:00:28,146 You've never seen anything like it. And the graphics. 1216 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:29,321 Oh yeah!" 1217 01:00:29,887 --> 01:00:31,279 And then I heard him say something 1218 01:00:31,453 --> 01:00:33,020 about a black trench coat and stuff. 1219 01:00:33,194 --> 01:00:35,849 And that really hit me for a few reasons. 1220 01:00:36,154 --> 01:00:38,330 One is, I had already had a fascination, 1221 01:00:38,547 --> 01:00:40,419 an obsession really, with the black trench coat 1222 01:00:40,898 --> 01:00:43,030 because of the movie The Crow, 1223 01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,990 which was my first movie obsession. 1224 01:00:46,207 --> 01:00:48,470 So I went to the Blockbuster Video store. 1225 01:00:48,949 --> 01:00:51,996 And, from the very beginning of the movie, 1226 01:00:53,171 --> 01:00:54,520 it had my attention. 1227 01:00:54,868 --> 01:00:58,480 And it had kind of like a rough, aggressive, 1228 01:00:59,394 --> 01:01:00,874 you know, Rob Zombie, 1229 01:01:01,048 --> 01:01:02,876 heavy metal theme to it. 1230 01:01:03,050 --> 01:01:04,269 Narrator: The Matrix. 1231 01:01:04,530 --> 01:01:05,487 The soundtrack that makes you go... 1232 01:01:05,705 --> 01:01:06,924 Whoa. 1233 01:01:07,098 --> 01:01:08,099 See, I thought about the structure 1234 01:01:08,273 --> 01:01:09,535 of the whole thing, 1235 01:01:09,709 --> 01:01:11,232 like, what would it be structurally? 1236 01:01:11,537 --> 01:01:13,713 And an idea came to my mind of what it would look like. 1237 01:01:16,020 --> 01:01:19,153 I don't think it's just people in pods somewhere else. 1238 01:01:19,327 --> 01:01:21,547 I think it's something completely different than that. 1239 01:01:22,722 --> 01:01:25,029 I don't know. When I think about it, I think of like 1240 01:01:25,246 --> 01:01:28,162 a giant white, brilliant white marble hallway, right? 1241 01:01:28,336 --> 01:01:29,903 And then there's like a pedestal in the center, 1242 01:01:30,077 --> 01:01:32,514 and this giant black sphere. 1243 01:01:33,211 --> 01:01:36,214 And that black sphere, to these people in this reality, 1244 01:01:37,389 --> 01:01:39,608 that's effectively a computer, you know? 1245 01:01:40,566 --> 01:01:42,176 No, and that computer's running-- 1246 01:01:42,524 --> 01:01:44,265 There could be a little art museum card 1247 01:01:44,439 --> 01:01:46,615 next to it that says "Universe... whatever". 1248 01:01:47,442 --> 01:01:50,271 And they just see what happens out of that black mass 1249 01:01:50,881 --> 01:01:53,797 of stars and clouds, and deep, deep, deep down, 1250 01:01:54,493 --> 01:01:55,537 people, like us. 1251 01:01:57,583 --> 01:01:59,019 And then you go on from that model, 1252 01:01:59,193 --> 01:02:02,153 you wonder, "Okay is it important to them?" 1253 01:02:02,544 --> 01:02:04,459 "Are we a very special case 1254 01:02:04,633 --> 01:02:07,593 that the entire reality is focused on?" 1255 01:02:07,941 --> 01:02:08,899 'Cause they're trying to figure out 1256 01:02:09,073 --> 01:02:10,465 what the point of life is, 1257 01:02:10,814 --> 01:02:12,119 and so they just keep rerunning the universe. 1258 01:02:14,643 --> 01:02:18,299 I think what they want us to do is improve upon 1259 01:02:19,561 --> 01:02:21,476 the simulation that they've already made. 1260 01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:25,437 And this was where we get into GANS. 1261 01:02:26,525 --> 01:02:29,093 I don't know if that's how you pronounce it, but G-A-N-S. 1262 01:02:30,790 --> 01:02:33,924 Generative Adversarial Networks. 1263 01:02:34,794 --> 01:02:37,144 Basically, the idea is that you have two AIs... 1264 01:02:38,493 --> 01:02:39,930 and they're competing with each other. 1265 01:02:40,626 --> 01:02:42,497 AI number one is the Forger. 1266 01:02:43,411 --> 01:02:46,893 It wants to make pictures of human beings... 1267 01:02:47,676 --> 01:02:51,463 that look like human beings, enough to fool someone. 1268 01:02:51,985 --> 01:02:54,248 And then you have another one that's the Inspector. 1269 01:02:54,596 --> 01:02:56,381 The Inspector's job is to tell the difference 1270 01:02:56,555 --> 01:02:58,252 between fake pictures of people 1271 01:02:58,426 --> 01:02:59,819 and actual pictures of people. 1272 01:03:00,472 --> 01:03:02,866 And the two of them just run at each other, 1273 01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:04,041 boom, boom, boom... Trying to fail, 1274 01:03:04,215 --> 01:03:06,043 trying to win, all that... 1275 01:03:06,391 --> 01:03:09,307 until, eventually, you and I look at the pictures, 1276 01:03:09,786 --> 01:03:11,004 and they look real to us 1277 01:03:11,831 --> 01:03:14,051 because they've gone through all these iterations. 1278 01:03:17,706 --> 01:03:21,580 But what are people if not... 1279 01:03:22,537 --> 01:03:24,017 generative adversarial networks? 1280 01:03:28,195 --> 01:03:30,328 Cop tries to solve crime. 1281 01:03:30,589 --> 01:03:32,069 Criminal tries to beat cop. 1282 01:03:32,939 --> 01:03:34,158 I'm gonna kill you. 1283 01:03:35,289 --> 01:03:38,423 You idiot! You made me! 1284 01:03:42,340 --> 01:03:44,081 Hacker tries to hack a system. 1285 01:03:44,429 --> 01:03:46,387 A programmer tries to fix the system. 1286 01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:50,522 Audience gets jaded with this type of media. 1287 01:03:50,696 --> 01:03:52,176 So somebody new comes along 1288 01:03:52,350 --> 01:03:53,830 and tries to make something better. 1289 01:03:54,221 --> 01:03:56,528 We are constantly getting back and forth at each other. 1290 01:03:56,702 --> 01:03:57,964 If you look at social media, 1291 01:03:58,182 --> 01:04:00,010 maybe this is why we're always arguing 1292 01:04:00,184 --> 01:04:05,102 because we exist specifically to refine and hone things. 1293 01:04:06,016 --> 01:04:09,933 In the end, what do we want to create 1294 01:04:10,237 --> 01:04:12,065 if not another simulation? 1295 01:04:17,462 --> 01:04:18,855 Joshua: [over phone] Yeah, I mean, 1296 01:04:19,290 --> 01:04:20,378 there were a few lines in there that were pretty deep. 1297 01:04:21,814 --> 01:04:24,034 Neo asked Morpheus, "Why do my eyes hurt?" 1298 01:04:25,122 --> 01:04:28,299 And Morpheus looks at Neo and says... 1299 01:04:28,516 --> 01:04:30,344 "Because you've never used them before." 1300 01:04:31,302 --> 01:04:33,173 Well, I felt the same way. And I felt like, 1301 01:04:33,391 --> 01:04:34,871 "Man, there's gotta be more than this." 1302 01:04:35,436 --> 01:04:36,960 Emily: Okay, "You've never used 1303 01:04:37,134 --> 01:04:39,571 your eyes before" when he gets out of the Matrix 1304 01:04:39,745 --> 01:04:41,703 and everything's blurry, 1305 01:04:41,921 --> 01:04:44,750 that's very, very similar to sort of what happens 1306 01:04:44,924 --> 01:04:48,449 in Plato's Cave,when he goes... 1307 01:04:48,972 --> 01:04:50,538 When you're taken outside the cave, 1308 01:04:50,712 --> 01:04:52,714 it takes a while for your eyes to adjust 1309 01:04:53,019 --> 01:04:54,716 to what you're seeing outside the cave. 1310 01:04:55,108 --> 01:04:57,371 And then, when he comes back inside the cave 1311 01:04:57,589 --> 01:04:59,808 he can't see either 1312 01:04:59,983 --> 01:05:02,028 because he's used to seeing things as they really are. 1313 01:05:02,202 --> 01:05:03,943 And so, you know, it says, 1314 01:05:04,117 --> 01:05:05,684 "Oh, and your friends are sort of watching 1315 01:05:05,858 --> 01:05:08,730 on the projection screen, things. 1316 01:05:08,905 --> 01:05:12,125 And they give themselves awards for being the fastest 1317 01:05:12,299 --> 01:05:14,258 and best at spotting what's going on. 1318 01:05:14,432 --> 01:05:16,782 And you just aren't interested in this anymore 1319 01:05:16,956 --> 01:05:18,523 because you've seen so much more." 1320 01:05:19,176 --> 01:05:21,656 It's funny how this just sort of like 1321 01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:26,096 value system that allows us to believe 1322 01:05:26,270 --> 01:05:29,055 that we know something that everyone else doesn't. 1323 01:05:29,577 --> 01:05:31,362 Like also contributes to that othering, 1324 01:05:31,536 --> 01:05:32,885 when he's walking down the street 1325 01:05:33,059 --> 01:05:34,626 and everyone is fake, you know? 1326 01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:36,454 And then, yeah, the person in the red dress, 1327 01:05:36,628 --> 01:05:39,152 and later the guy's like, "Oh, I engineered her." 1328 01:05:40,545 --> 01:05:42,242 Yeah, that seems like-- 1329 01:05:42,416 --> 01:05:44,766 that is such a school shooter fantasy. 1330 01:05:48,118 --> 01:05:51,425 You have these unique eyes to see what no one else can see. 1331 01:05:51,686 --> 01:05:53,601 and everyone else is just like... 1332 01:05:54,646 --> 01:05:57,214 they're just asleep. 1333 01:05:57,431 --> 01:06:01,044 Man: Sleep. Sleep. 1334 01:06:02,567 --> 01:06:04,308 Paul: Having told you my story 1335 01:06:04,482 --> 01:06:07,876 about when I was a kid, when he got out of the tank... 1336 01:06:11,097 --> 01:06:14,274 the immediate thing that flashed in my mind was, "Okay, 1337 01:06:15,014 --> 01:06:18,278 this is kind of like what happened to me at that point, 1338 01:06:18,975 --> 01:06:20,411 but there was no tank to get out of." 1339 01:06:21,281 --> 01:06:24,893 And I maybe didn't even have a body, per se. 1340 01:06:29,159 --> 01:06:30,595 Joshua: [over phone] I went to a store 1341 01:06:30,899 --> 01:06:32,771 in the mall near my house, it's called Hot Topic. 1342 01:06:32,945 --> 01:06:34,338 I don't know if you've ever heard of it. 1343 01:06:35,034 --> 01:06:37,341 And they had all kind of goth wear, 1344 01:06:37,515 --> 01:06:39,125 black clothes, black everything. 1345 01:06:39,952 --> 01:06:43,956 There was a line of trench coats hanging on a rack 1346 01:06:44,304 --> 01:06:45,653 in the corner of the store. 1347 01:06:45,871 --> 01:06:47,655 And I was with my sister, Tiffany. 1348 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,964 And I made a beeline straight for the trench coats, you know. 1349 01:06:52,617 --> 01:06:55,359 I ran. I ran to them and I grabbed one, 1350 01:06:55,576 --> 01:06:57,448 and I held it to my chest real tight... 1351 01:06:57,752 --> 01:06:59,406 like it was like my girlfriend or something. 1352 01:06:59,580 --> 01:07:00,973 It was, you know-- 1353 01:07:01,452 --> 01:07:02,366 My sister's looking at me like, "What are you doing? 1354 01:07:03,628 --> 01:07:05,499 Whenever I would be going through something really bad, 1355 01:07:05,673 --> 01:07:07,980 whether it was being bullied at school 1356 01:07:08,154 --> 01:07:10,026 or whether it was being abused at home 1357 01:07:10,504 --> 01:07:12,245 I could escape. I could leave the room. 1358 01:07:12,419 --> 01:07:14,943 I could escape with the black trench coat on. 1359 01:07:15,901 --> 01:07:17,511 It was like the trench coat 1360 01:07:17,685 --> 01:07:19,339 was like a living, breathing organism to me. 1361 01:07:20,384 --> 01:07:22,560 You know. It made me feel... 1362 01:07:24,431 --> 01:07:26,303 when I put it on, it made me feel strong 1363 01:07:27,304 --> 01:07:30,481 it made me feel powerful, unassailable. 1364 01:07:30,698 --> 01:07:33,005 It made me feel closer to Neo than I ever been. 1365 01:07:33,484 --> 01:07:37,053 I would wear the trench coat to the mall mainly. 1366 01:07:37,227 --> 01:07:39,316 I would walk around the mall just all day 1367 01:07:40,578 --> 01:07:43,233 with theMatrix music on my headphones. 1368 01:07:43,407 --> 01:07:45,539 I had the soundtrack-- it was in my CD player, 1369 01:07:46,758 --> 01:07:48,412 and people would see me come in, 1370 01:07:48,629 --> 01:07:50,414 and they would just kind of back away, you know. 1371 01:07:50,588 --> 01:07:53,069 And I had this sick thrill of wearing it. 1372 01:07:53,808 --> 01:07:55,897 So being Neo, being Neo was... 1373 01:07:56,637 --> 01:07:58,770 I felt for a long time it actually saved me, 1374 01:07:58,944 --> 01:08:00,641 but 'til a certain point. 1375 01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:03,340 You know, everything that's really happened 1376 01:08:03,514 --> 01:08:05,081 with me has kind of dichotomy, 1377 01:08:05,385 --> 01:08:06,430 sometimes a paradox. 1378 01:08:08,475 --> 01:08:10,608 I've probably watched The Matrix movie... 1379 01:08:11,696 --> 01:08:13,089 I don't know exact, 1380 01:08:13,306 --> 01:08:14,699 but I know it was hundreds of times. 1381 01:08:15,178 --> 01:08:17,005 After I saw it the first time, I had to watch it again. 1382 01:08:17,571 --> 01:08:19,051 And then I had to watch it again, 1383 01:08:19,225 --> 01:08:21,053 and I watched it again and again and again. 1384 01:08:21,271 --> 01:08:22,750 There were days when I would watch it 1385 01:08:22,924 --> 01:08:24,448 two or three times in a row. 1386 01:08:25,623 --> 01:08:27,799 And like the world that they are in, 1387 01:08:28,452 --> 01:08:31,977 this boring, you know, trite, mundane... 1388 01:08:33,021 --> 01:08:36,329 you know, just sickening world, I felt the same way. 1389 01:08:36,938 --> 01:08:38,592 I just felt like nothing was going right. 1390 01:08:38,766 --> 01:08:40,028 What the hell am I doing here? 1391 01:08:40,333 --> 01:08:41,117 And I felt like, "Man, there's gotta be 1392 01:08:41,291 --> 01:08:42,596 more than this." 1393 01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:44,207 Maybe there's something with thisMatrix thing. 1394 01:08:44,729 --> 01:08:46,296 Maybe it's real. 1395 01:08:46,557 --> 01:08:48,820 Maybe it's not so fake after all. You know, who knows? 1396 01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,180 Philip: One thing I really want you to know, 1397 01:09:01,485 --> 01:09:03,617 these claims can neither be proved 1398 01:09:04,270 --> 01:09:07,012 nor can they be even made to sound rational 1399 01:09:07,186 --> 01:09:08,709 in the usual sense of the word. 1400 01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:13,105 It has taken me over three years to reach the point 1401 01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:15,020 where I am willing to tell anyone 1402 01:09:15,194 --> 01:09:17,675 but my closest friends about my experience 1403 01:09:18,023 --> 01:09:21,331 beginning back at the vernal equinox of 1974. 1404 01:09:22,158 --> 01:09:25,987 [translator speaks French] 1405 01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,338 Philip: One of the reasons motivating me 1406 01:09:28,512 --> 01:09:30,340 to speak about it publicly at last 1407 01:09:30,862 --> 01:09:32,516 to openly make this claim 1408 01:09:32,690 --> 01:09:34,996 is a recent encounter I have undergone 1409 01:09:35,954 --> 01:09:39,697 which, by the way, bears a strange resemblance 1410 01:09:40,437 --> 01:09:42,961 to Hawthorne Abendsen's experience in my novel 1411 01:09:43,135 --> 01:09:45,877 The Man in the High Castle with the woman Juliana Crain. 1412 01:09:48,445 --> 01:09:51,274 [translator speaks French] 1413 01:09:51,839 --> 01:09:54,364 Juliana read Abendsen's book about a world 1414 01:09:54,538 --> 01:09:56,670 in which Germany and Japan and Italy... 1415 01:09:59,020 --> 01:10:01,849 Now this is a little difficult if you haven't read the book, 1416 01:10:02,415 --> 01:10:05,766 but he wrote a novel in which Germany, 1417 01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:09,814 Italy and Japan lost World War II. 1418 01:10:10,684 --> 01:10:12,033 And he was living in a world 1419 01:10:12,251 --> 01:10:13,861 in which they had won World War II. 1420 01:10:17,082 --> 01:10:18,301 She felt she should tell him 1421 01:10:18,475 --> 01:10:20,128 what she comprehended about the book. 1422 01:10:21,652 --> 01:10:24,045 In other words, that his novel was true. 1423 01:10:25,830 --> 01:10:27,571 Chris: When I was working onJimmy Corrigan, 1424 01:10:27,745 --> 01:10:29,747 the main character meets his dad, and then his dad dies. 1425 01:10:33,229 --> 01:10:35,405 And as I was working on the story itself, 1426 01:10:35,579 --> 01:10:38,103 I met my dad for the first time and then he died. 1427 01:10:40,061 --> 01:10:41,976 John Updike said something once about... 1428 01:10:42,499 --> 01:10:45,110 about the strange predictability of fiction. 1429 01:10:45,632 --> 01:10:47,155 And he just kinda let it go at that, 1430 01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:48,635 and didn't really follow up on that. 1431 01:10:48,896 --> 01:10:50,202 But there is something when you get into this... 1432 01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:52,248 imaginary world 1433 01:10:52,422 --> 01:10:54,728 of writing stories, or reimagining memories 1434 01:10:54,902 --> 01:10:57,035 where you can kind of start to feel like you're... 1435 01:10:57,992 --> 01:11:01,996 not necessarily predicting the world, but having some play 1436 01:11:02,170 --> 01:11:03,607 in the stream of it, or something. 1437 01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,743 For several years, I've had the feeling, a growing feeling, 1438 01:11:10,178 --> 01:11:13,443 that one day a woman, who would be a complete stranger to me, 1439 01:11:13,921 --> 01:11:16,576 would contact me and tell me 1440 01:11:16,924 --> 01:11:19,536 that she had some information to impart to me. 1441 01:11:20,406 --> 01:11:22,321 And then she would appear at my door 1442 01:11:22,756 --> 01:11:25,933 just as Juliana appeared at Hawthorne Abendsen's door. 1443 01:11:26,325 --> 01:11:29,720 She would tell me exactly what Juliana told Abendsen, 1444 01:11:30,198 --> 01:11:33,898 and that is that my book, like his, was in a certain, 1445 01:11:34,072 --> 01:11:36,422 real, literal and physical sense, 1446 01:11:36,596 --> 01:11:38,032 not fiction but the truth. 1447 01:11:40,383 --> 01:11:42,123 Well, this did finally happen to me. 1448 01:11:43,734 --> 01:11:45,649 I even knew that her hair would be black. 1449 01:11:48,042 --> 01:11:49,609 One of the first things that a lot 1450 01:11:49,783 --> 01:11:51,176 of science fiction critics remind you 1451 01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:52,699 when you're talking about science fiction, 1452 01:11:52,873 --> 01:11:54,484 "Science fiction is not about prediction." 1453 01:11:54,658 --> 01:11:56,224 But of course people think about it anyway. 1454 01:11:56,486 --> 01:11:59,445 And Dick has quite a few. Like he's no slacker 1455 01:11:59,619 --> 01:12:03,971 in the actually anticipating the future department, 1456 01:12:04,189 --> 01:12:06,278 especially around consumer gadgets 1457 01:12:06,452 --> 01:12:08,280 and ideas about consumer gadgets. 1458 01:12:08,498 --> 01:12:10,891 But I think what's more prophetic 1459 01:12:11,065 --> 01:12:12,023 is just... 1460 01:12:12,937 --> 01:12:16,593 what if feels like to be alive right now. 1461 01:12:17,028 --> 01:12:21,946 You know, to be confused... ontologically confused. 1462 01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:25,341 Like, I'm not really sure where reality is exactly. 1463 01:12:25,950 --> 01:12:28,779 I'm certainly convinced that there's a lot of 1464 01:12:28,953 --> 01:12:31,521 very dark forces on the rise, 1465 01:12:31,695 --> 01:12:33,871 and there are things that are trying to manipulate me 1466 01:12:34,175 --> 01:12:36,003 using information or using my... 1467 01:12:36,221 --> 01:12:38,789 the fact that I'm still a subject of capitalism, 1468 01:12:38,963 --> 01:12:41,226 and they're kind of manipulating that. 1469 01:12:41,487 --> 01:12:42,836 And, at the same time, there's sort of like 1470 01:12:43,010 --> 01:12:44,795 deeper rumblings 1471 01:12:44,969 --> 01:12:47,928 in the nature of the world that seem really unclear. 1472 01:12:48,276 --> 01:12:52,150 And at the same time, people seem potentially drawn 1473 01:12:52,324 --> 01:12:55,545 into their own sort of solipsistic world 1474 01:12:55,719 --> 01:12:58,156 of like manipulating with the world 1475 01:12:58,330 --> 01:12:59,592 through all these interfaces 1476 01:12:59,766 --> 01:13:01,725 and kind of detaching in a way, 1477 01:13:02,073 --> 01:13:04,292 even at the same time you're completely bound up. 1478 01:13:04,510 --> 01:13:06,512 And that's a primal theme in Dick, 1479 01:13:06,686 --> 01:13:08,949 is the tension between our social reality, 1480 01:13:09,123 --> 01:13:10,951 the reality as a social construction 1481 01:13:11,517 --> 01:13:14,520 that we are always able to kind of fragment away from 1482 01:13:14,738 --> 01:13:17,393 in generally harrowing ways. 1483 01:13:17,567 --> 01:13:20,787 We go into solipsism, we go into psychosis, 1484 01:13:21,092 --> 01:13:22,615 we go into paranoia. 1485 01:13:22,789 --> 01:13:24,400 Hey, guys, I used to be one of you! 1486 01:13:24,878 --> 01:13:26,227 - Stop selling... - Erik: And so, 1487 01:13:26,663 --> 01:13:30,101 I think he captures the texture of our life. 1488 01:13:30,275 --> 01:13:32,408 I mean, especially, like, just as a trivial example... 1489 01:13:32,582 --> 01:13:36,368 the texture of like lots of little alerts all the time. 1490 01:13:36,542 --> 01:13:40,198 You know, pings on the phone and here's your e-mail, ding! 1491 01:13:40,372 --> 01:13:41,547 And then, "Oh, don't forget this." 1492 01:13:42,330 --> 01:13:45,377 That kind of mind that's constantly distracted 1493 01:13:45,551 --> 01:13:48,380 by these little bits of information tugging at us. 1494 01:13:48,554 --> 01:13:50,382 Some of which are advertisements trying to like-- 1495 01:13:50,774 --> 01:13:52,602 Or you start thinking about a trip 1496 01:13:52,776 --> 01:13:54,734 and then you write somebody an e-mail, 1497 01:13:54,908 --> 01:13:56,301 and Goggle reads your e-mail and then suddenly 1498 01:13:56,475 --> 01:13:58,172 all the adds are like, "Trips! Trips! Trips!" 1499 01:13:58,477 --> 01:14:03,003 It's just like, "Whoa," that fabric of consciousness 1500 01:14:03,264 --> 01:14:06,703 is just straight out of this-- 1501 01:14:07,312 --> 01:14:08,835 [liquid static] 1502 01:14:09,053 --> 01:14:10,184 Joshua: [over phone] I remember typing 1503 01:14:10,358 --> 01:14:11,664 "guns for sale" 1504 01:14:11,838 --> 01:14:13,057 on like Google. 1505 01:14:14,014 --> 01:14:16,190 And-- In Fairfax, Virginia. 1506 01:14:16,364 --> 01:14:18,976 And I saw this place called Galyan's Sporting Goods Store. 1507 01:14:19,411 --> 01:14:21,108 And I remember... 1508 01:14:23,197 --> 01:14:25,809 like a few days after I looked that up, my father. 1509 01:14:25,983 --> 01:14:27,637 I was in the basement with my father. 1510 01:14:29,116 --> 01:14:31,031 And he said, "I've seen your searches 1511 01:14:31,205 --> 01:14:32,293 for guns for sale." 1512 01:14:34,034 --> 01:14:35,383 And looked at me, 1513 01:14:35,906 --> 01:14:38,865 he had like this worried/angry look on his face. 1514 01:14:40,127 --> 01:14:41,564 And I didn't say anything, and I-- 1515 01:14:42,303 --> 01:14:43,783 We looked at each other for a good minute, 1516 01:14:44,654 --> 01:14:46,264 almost like a standoff. 1517 01:14:46,656 --> 01:14:48,571 And then I just walked up the basement steps and left. 1518 01:14:48,745 --> 01:14:50,660 So we never had another conversation about it. 1519 01:14:53,271 --> 01:14:55,447 Erik: He had this great line about, that he thought 1520 01:14:55,621 --> 01:14:57,014 that the contemporary world 1521 01:14:57,188 --> 01:14:59,756 was sort of recreating the animist world 1522 01:14:59,930 --> 01:15:02,454 that people, pre-modern people saw. 1523 01:15:04,108 --> 01:15:06,197 And his work captures that sense 1524 01:15:06,371 --> 01:15:10,418 of a kind of profane technological animism, 1525 01:15:10,636 --> 01:15:11,855 and aliveness 1526 01:15:12,333 --> 01:15:14,205 that is not very trustworthy. 1527 01:15:14,727 --> 01:15:15,772 I love you, daddy. 1528 01:15:16,468 --> 01:15:19,210 Erik: Dick was always aware of the broken. 1529 01:15:19,384 --> 01:15:22,430 People are broken. Technologies are broken. 1530 01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:25,564 Cosmologies are broken. Gods are broken. 1531 01:15:28,306 --> 01:15:29,916 Even though it seems like other people 1532 01:15:30,090 --> 01:15:31,831 are just always paying attention to like the new 1533 01:15:32,005 --> 01:15:33,790 and how the new technologies can solve this thing... 1534 01:15:33,964 --> 01:15:37,358 Narrator: Your plastic pal who's fun to be with! 1535 01:15:37,533 --> 01:15:40,666 Erik: ...what I experience my technological life is like 1536 01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,755 is just a lot of broken things. 1537 01:15:47,673 --> 01:15:49,414 Jesse: So, you have your giant developers. 1538 01:15:49,588 --> 01:15:51,198 You have Activision Blizzard, 1539 01:15:52,156 --> 01:15:54,506 they doWorld of Warcraft andOverwatch. 1540 01:15:55,202 --> 01:15:57,553 You have EA, which is... 1541 01:15:59,990 --> 01:16:02,775 I think I've seen EA related to the Nazis 1542 01:16:02,949 --> 01:16:04,864 more than I've seen them related to video games. 1543 01:16:05,561 --> 01:16:07,040 They're pushing out these things now 1544 01:16:07,214 --> 01:16:08,955 where you're paying full price for a video game, 1545 01:16:09,129 --> 01:16:12,219 but you're only getting like 40% of a video game. 1546 01:16:12,829 --> 01:16:17,355 And the portion you get is broken and buggy. 1547 01:16:17,660 --> 01:16:20,924 And sometimes like literally, in the case of some games, 1548 01:16:21,228 --> 01:16:24,928 like I think the latest one wasAtlas, it's unplayable. 1549 01:16:25,102 --> 01:16:27,104 Like it's literally dead on arrival. 1550 01:16:27,278 --> 01:16:28,975 People were still paying full price for it 1551 01:16:29,193 --> 01:16:31,064 and getting tricked into it. You can't get refunds. 1552 01:16:31,587 --> 01:16:33,066 They get patches that don't work. 1553 01:16:34,111 --> 01:16:35,242 You're stuck in these digital worlds 1554 01:16:35,416 --> 01:16:36,766 that aren't going so well. 1555 01:16:37,027 --> 01:16:37,897 And then, when you get out of them, 1556 01:16:38,115 --> 01:16:39,464 you're stuck in a reality 1557 01:16:39,638 --> 01:16:40,596 that's not going so well either. 1558 01:16:42,206 --> 01:16:44,164 And you can't help draw parallels. 1559 01:16:44,904 --> 01:16:47,428 The grass is dead on both sides of this thing. 1560 01:16:49,213 --> 01:16:50,823 Perhaps right now, maybe our artifices 1561 01:16:51,215 --> 01:16:53,652 are a little bit more active than we thought. 1562 01:16:53,913 --> 01:16:55,915 And they're just like really hot-fixing a lot of things, 1563 01:16:56,089 --> 01:16:58,004 and they're quick-patching reality right now, 1564 01:16:58,178 --> 01:16:59,397 and it's just like, 1565 01:16:59,615 --> 01:17:00,224 shit's hitting the fan right now. 1566 01:17:01,573 --> 01:17:03,053 Emily: That's what's happening 1567 01:17:03,227 --> 01:17:05,621 outside the Matrix in Neo's world, too. 1568 01:17:05,795 --> 01:17:07,144 It's like the real reality, 1569 01:17:07,318 --> 01:17:08,885 if you get outside of the Matrix 1570 01:17:09,494 --> 01:17:11,191 is terrible. 1571 01:17:11,409 --> 01:17:14,194 The real reality is like war, and you can't breathe. 1572 01:17:14,368 --> 01:17:17,067 To me, the subtext of that is maybe there was 1573 01:17:17,545 --> 01:17:19,765 a taboo that we transgressed, 1574 01:17:19,939 --> 01:17:22,246 that we went past the point of no return. 1575 01:17:23,377 --> 01:17:27,643 Joshua: [over phone] February 17th, 2003. 1576 01:17:27,947 --> 01:17:28,905 It was a Monday. 1577 01:17:31,342 --> 01:17:33,692 I woke up. There was a whole lot of snow outside 1578 01:17:33,866 --> 01:17:36,347 from a recent blizzard we had just had. 1579 01:17:36,956 --> 01:17:41,091 And I walked downstairs, I saw my father shoveling snow. 1580 01:17:41,265 --> 01:17:44,224 So I got my clothes on and helped him shovel the snow. 1581 01:17:44,877 --> 01:17:48,838 And in the middle of doing that I remember my mother came out 1582 01:17:49,099 --> 01:17:51,841 and she looked up and she said, "There's so much snow. 1583 01:17:52,015 --> 01:17:53,930 We're gonna remember this for a long time." 1584 01:17:55,714 --> 01:17:57,977 I spent the rest of the day in my room 1585 01:17:58,151 --> 01:18:00,197 playing violent video games 1586 01:18:00,371 --> 01:18:03,461 and watchingThe Matrix movie with my black trench coat on 1587 01:18:03,940 --> 01:18:05,463 and my gun in my hand. 1588 01:18:07,552 --> 01:18:09,162 As evening time continued... 1589 01:18:11,512 --> 01:18:14,428 paranoia sunk in even further. 1590 01:18:15,255 --> 01:18:16,692 Lightning struck my brain. 1591 01:18:18,650 --> 01:18:19,695 And this is what hit me. 1592 01:18:20,608 --> 01:18:24,612 I said to myself, the only way I could find out for sure, 1593 01:18:24,830 --> 01:18:27,006 I could find out for sure 1594 01:18:27,572 --> 01:18:29,226 if the Matrix was real 1595 01:18:29,574 --> 01:18:30,967 and I wasn't losing my mind 1596 01:18:31,924 --> 01:18:34,971 was to simply pick up the phone and call them. 1597 01:18:36,624 --> 01:18:40,759 I left my room and I walked precariously 1598 01:18:41,804 --> 01:18:44,023 over to the house phone in my parents' bedroom. 1599 01:18:58,342 --> 01:19:00,648 I slowly picked the phone up off the hook 1600 01:19:01,432 --> 01:19:04,696 and then, taking a deep, nervous breath 1601 01:19:05,349 --> 01:19:07,743 I spoke those powerful words, his words, 1602 01:19:08,700 --> 01:19:09,919 the final words of Neo, 1603 01:19:10,876 --> 01:19:13,879 "I know you're out there. I can feel you now. 1604 01:19:14,619 --> 01:19:15,794 I know that you're afraid. 1605 01:19:17,274 --> 01:19:20,059 You're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. 1606 01:19:21,713 --> 01:19:23,236 I don't know the future. 1607 01:19:23,671 --> 01:19:26,065 I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. 1608 01:19:26,544 --> 01:19:29,503 I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. 1609 01:19:30,591 --> 01:19:31,897 You're gonna hang up this phone, 1610 01:19:32,419 --> 01:19:33,769 and then I'm going to show these people 1611 01:19:33,943 --> 01:19:35,118 what you don't want them to see. 1612 01:19:35,814 --> 01:19:37,207 A world without you. 1613 01:19:38,121 --> 01:19:40,210 A world without rules and controls, 1614 01:19:40,384 --> 01:19:41,646 without borders or boundaries. 1615 01:19:41,951 --> 01:19:44,692 A world where anything's possible. 1616 01:19:48,305 --> 01:19:50,786 Where we go from there is a choice up to you." 1617 01:19:51,134 --> 01:19:52,613 And I hung up the phone 1618 01:19:52,918 --> 01:19:56,052 and I walked calmly back to the TV in my room 1619 01:19:56,530 --> 01:19:58,750 and began watchingThe Matrix all over again. 1620 01:19:59,272 --> 01:20:00,491 [static] 1621 01:20:01,013 --> 01:20:03,363 Joshua: And I remember sitting there on my bed 1622 01:20:03,537 --> 01:20:05,104 looking up at The Matrix poster, 1623 01:20:05,322 --> 01:20:09,195 just saying basically, "Fuck my life," you know? 1624 01:20:09,805 --> 01:20:12,068 I got my shotgun out and I... 1625 01:20:14,722 --> 01:20:17,290 I put some slugs in there, in the chamber... 1626 01:20:18,509 --> 01:20:22,992 and I slid the action forward, and I left my room. 1627 01:20:23,166 --> 01:20:28,258 But before I did, I put a CD player on my head, 1628 01:20:28,824 --> 01:20:30,216 headphones on my head. 1629 01:20:30,390 --> 01:20:31,609 And this one was a little different 1630 01:20:31,783 --> 01:20:33,002 thanThe Matrix. 1631 01:20:33,393 --> 01:20:35,308 This one was by a band called Drowning Pool. 1632 01:20:36,440 --> 01:20:38,572 The words to the song were, 1633 01:20:39,269 --> 01:20:42,446 "Beaten why for Can't take much more 1634 01:20:42,881 --> 01:20:45,710 Something's got to give Let the bodies hit the floor" 1635 01:20:46,058 --> 01:20:52,804 ♪ ["Bodies" by Drowning Pool plays] ♪ 1636 01:20:53,152 --> 01:20:55,807 That's what I was listening to as I left my room 1637 01:20:56,416 --> 01:20:59,942 and I went downstairs to get to the basement. 1638 01:21:00,943 --> 01:21:07,036 ♪ [song continues] ♪ 1639 01:21:20,919 --> 01:21:22,616 And I remember 1640 01:21:22,790 --> 01:21:24,967 when I got to the bottom of the basement stairs 1641 01:21:25,315 --> 01:21:27,578 I saw my mother was sitting there at the computer 1642 01:21:27,795 --> 01:21:28,884 with a smile on her face. 1643 01:21:29,754 --> 01:21:33,192 And she turned, she swiveled in her chair to face me 1644 01:21:33,366 --> 01:21:35,803 and when she saw the gun in my hand, 1645 01:21:35,978 --> 01:21:38,806 which she's seeing for the first time ever, 1646 01:21:39,633 --> 01:21:42,854 her smile disappeared, and I shot her. 1647 01:21:43,637 --> 01:21:44,856 I shot her in the chest. 1648 01:21:45,944 --> 01:21:47,815 And I turned my attention to my father, 1649 01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:49,513 who was on the other side of the basement 1650 01:21:49,861 --> 01:21:53,212 and he dove. He was at his computer, too. 1651 01:21:53,473 --> 01:21:55,084 And he dove under the table, 1652 01:21:55,432 --> 01:21:57,521 and he was looking at me 1653 01:21:57,695 --> 01:22:01,003 with a look I've never seen on him before. 1654 01:22:01,568 --> 01:22:04,310 And just that look of shock and disbelief. 1655 01:22:05,311 --> 01:22:08,488 And I remember I crouched down to be level with him 1656 01:22:08,662 --> 01:22:10,577 and I shot him about three times. 1657 01:22:26,071 --> 01:22:28,726 I went upstairs to reload 1658 01:22:29,292 --> 01:22:30,815 and when I came back down-- 1659 01:22:31,729 --> 01:22:34,732 Oh, I still had my headphones on. 1660 01:22:35,385 --> 01:22:37,735 The words that were forced into my ears were, 1661 01:22:38,736 --> 01:22:41,391 "Skin against skin Blood and bone 1662 01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,220 You're all by yourself But you're not alone 1663 01:22:44,829 --> 01:22:46,831 You wanted in Now you're here 1664 01:22:47,310 --> 01:22:49,399 Driven by hate Consumed by fear 1665 01:22:49,921 --> 01:22:51,270 Let the bodies hit the floor" 1666 01:22:52,489 --> 01:22:53,969 That's what I was listening to 1667 01:22:54,186 --> 01:22:55,927 when I went down for the second time 1668 01:22:56,101 --> 01:22:57,059 to the basement. 1669 01:23:04,936 --> 01:23:07,243 I was standing at the top of the basement staircase, 1670 01:23:07,417 --> 01:23:09,897 and my mother was standing at the bottom of the staircase, 1671 01:23:10,811 --> 01:23:12,378 holding her chest as she bled out. 1672 01:23:13,118 --> 01:23:18,123 And I lifted the gun up and I aimed it at her face. 1673 01:23:18,384 --> 01:23:19,864 She looked up at me and she said... 1674 01:23:20,821 --> 01:23:23,172 she said, "Joshua." 1675 01:23:24,042 --> 01:23:25,304 She said, "What did you do?" 1676 01:23:26,523 --> 01:23:30,266 And she kept looking at me for a minute, and she said... 1677 01:23:31,963 --> 01:23:32,964 she said, "You wouldn't." 1678 01:23:33,878 --> 01:23:35,010 And I pulled the trigger. 1679 01:23:37,447 --> 01:23:39,275 When I pulled the trigger and... 1680 01:23:40,798 --> 01:23:41,886 her face exploded. 1681 01:23:43,888 --> 01:23:46,412 Half her face, her eye and her face exploded out 1682 01:23:46,586 --> 01:23:47,500 through the back of her head... 1683 01:23:48,501 --> 01:23:52,244 and her flesh was just turned into like ripplets, 1684 01:23:52,418 --> 01:23:53,724 a bloody mess. 1685 01:23:53,898 --> 01:23:55,987 And it messed me up really bad 1686 01:23:56,161 --> 01:24:00,122 because it wasn't anything like I had seen onThe Matrix. 1687 01:24:01,036 --> 01:24:04,343 You know? Real life was so much more horrific. 1688 01:24:04,778 --> 01:24:07,303 It kind of jarred me. I was still pretty numb, 1689 01:24:07,999 --> 01:24:09,870 but I remember it jarring me 1690 01:24:10,175 --> 01:24:12,438 'cause it was different than what I thought ofThe Matrix. 1691 01:24:15,963 --> 01:24:17,965 So I turned around and I went upstairs 1692 01:24:18,357 --> 01:24:21,143 into the dining room. 1693 01:24:21,447 --> 01:24:23,145 I picked up the phone in the kitchen, 1694 01:24:23,884 --> 01:24:25,669 and my sister was on the phone. 1695 01:24:25,843 --> 01:24:27,323 I didn't realize at the time 1696 01:24:27,497 --> 01:24:29,629 that my sister was on the phone with my father 1697 01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:32,893 at the exact moment that I killed him and my mother. 1698 01:24:33,372 --> 01:24:35,722 She heard the whole thing, and I didn't realize it. 1699 01:24:35,896 --> 01:24:37,289 So here I am, 1700 01:24:37,811 --> 01:24:39,552 I'm at the phone in the kitchen and I said, "Hello?" 1701 01:24:40,466 --> 01:24:43,295 And my sister said, "Josh?" And I said, "Tiffany?" 1702 01:24:43,687 --> 01:24:45,036 I said, "What are you doing here?" 1703 01:24:45,297 --> 01:24:46,733 And she said, "Josh, where's Daddy? 1704 01:24:46,907 --> 01:24:48,039 I wanna talk to Daddy." 1705 01:24:48,735 --> 01:24:50,346 And I told her, I said, 1706 01:24:50,563 --> 01:24:52,348 "Hang up the phone, Tiffany. I gotta call someone." 1707 01:24:53,349 --> 01:24:55,655 And she didn't hang up, so I let the phone hang 1708 01:24:55,829 --> 01:24:59,224 and I went to, my father had a cell phone. 1709 01:24:59,398 --> 01:25:01,357 I went to his cell phone. I went outside. 1710 01:25:02,619 --> 01:25:06,362 I took a Coca-Cola out of the refrigerator 1711 01:25:07,145 --> 01:25:08,625 and I started to drink-- 1712 01:25:08,886 --> 01:25:09,930 I popped the top and I started drinking it, 1713 01:25:10,105 --> 01:25:11,367 and I called 911. 1714 01:25:12,759 --> 01:25:14,021 When I hung the phone up... 1715 01:25:15,458 --> 01:25:18,939 I got a call on my dad's phone from a friend of his. 1716 01:25:19,331 --> 01:25:23,814 And my dad's friend said, "Hey, Josh, is your dad there?" 1717 01:25:24,510 --> 01:25:26,599 And I said, "He can't come to the phone right now." 1718 01:25:27,557 --> 01:25:28,993 And he said, "Oh, okay. 1719 01:25:29,167 --> 01:25:30,560 Will you give him a message for me? 1720 01:25:30,734 --> 01:25:31,735 Just tell him I called." 1721 01:25:32,562 --> 01:25:34,477 Said, "Will you give him that message for me?" 1722 01:25:35,260 --> 01:25:36,348 And I said, "Sure." 1723 01:25:37,349 --> 01:25:39,830 And he hung up the phone, I hung up the phone. 1724 01:25:40,047 --> 01:25:41,745 And moments later, 1725 01:25:41,919 --> 01:25:44,400 the police arrived at the driveway of my house 1726 01:25:44,617 --> 01:25:46,141 with their guns drawn. 1727 01:25:46,576 --> 01:25:49,361 About five or six of them with their guns drawn on me... 1728 01:25:50,667 --> 01:25:52,321 told me to get down on my knees, 1729 01:25:52,495 --> 01:25:54,540 and of course they arrested me. 1730 01:25:54,714 --> 01:25:56,455 [tinkling] 1731 01:26:07,553 --> 01:26:09,251 Philip: I, in my stories and novels, 1732 01:26:09,425 --> 01:26:11,340 often write about counterfeit worlds 1733 01:26:11,992 --> 01:26:15,518 semi-real worlds, as well as deranged private worlds 1734 01:26:15,822 --> 01:26:18,129 inhabited often by just one person, 1735 01:26:18,521 --> 01:26:20,479 while meantime the other characters 1736 01:26:20,653 --> 01:26:22,612 either remain in their own worlds throughout 1737 01:26:23,090 --> 01:26:25,963 or are somehow drawn into one of the peculiar ones. 1738 01:26:26,790 --> 01:26:30,097 This theme occurs in the corpus of my 27 years of writing. 1739 01:26:30,750 --> 01:26:32,926 At no time did I have a theoretical 1740 01:26:33,100 --> 01:26:35,755 or conscious explanation for my preoccupation 1741 01:26:36,060 --> 01:26:38,236 with these pluriform pseudo-worlds. 1742 01:26:38,628 --> 01:26:40,369 But now I think I understand. 1743 01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:42,849 What I was sensing was the manifold 1744 01:26:43,023 --> 01:26:46,592 of partially actualized reality lying tangent 1745 01:26:46,766 --> 01:26:49,508 to what evidently is the most actualized one. 1746 01:26:49,943 --> 01:26:54,252 The one which the majority of us by consensus gentium agree on. 1747 01:26:56,385 --> 01:26:57,821 The real nub of it, 1748 01:26:58,430 --> 01:27:01,999 morally, ethically, even kind of cosmologically... 1749 01:27:02,173 --> 01:27:04,088 is how we deal with each other. 1750 01:27:04,610 --> 01:27:07,047 Like, okay I'm in a simulation. 1751 01:27:07,222 --> 01:27:08,919 Okay, I'm in a false, phenomenal world. 1752 01:27:09,093 --> 01:27:12,009 How do I deal with this person I'm in love with? 1753 01:27:12,183 --> 01:27:14,751 How do I deal with this person who is my enemy? 1754 01:27:15,055 --> 01:27:17,580 How do I deal with a dying parent? 1755 01:27:17,928 --> 01:27:21,105 But if I have the hunch that this is a simulation 1756 01:27:21,453 --> 01:27:23,890 and there are other people like me there 1757 01:27:24,064 --> 01:27:26,328 who aren't just simulations, 1758 01:27:26,502 --> 01:27:29,069 it puts weird pressure on my ethics. 1759 01:27:29,809 --> 01:27:32,769 How do I deal with somebody else who's in a false world 1760 01:27:32,986 --> 01:27:36,990 but who's actually behind that avatar is someone like me, 1761 01:27:37,164 --> 01:27:38,905 that I really want to communicate with, 1762 01:27:39,123 --> 01:27:41,386 fall in love with, bond together with. 1763 01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:43,693 And that's really key to Phil Dick. 1764 01:27:43,867 --> 01:27:45,521 Like yeah, Phil Dick was kinda crazy. 1765 01:27:45,869 --> 01:27:48,350 He had visions 1766 01:27:48,524 --> 01:27:49,873 he could never decide what they meant, 1767 01:27:50,090 --> 01:27:52,658 he's neurotic and pathological and paranoid 1768 01:27:52,832 --> 01:27:53,964 and all those things, 1769 01:27:54,269 --> 01:27:56,923 but at the same time, constantly, 1770 01:27:57,228 --> 01:27:58,882 throughout all of the texts, 1771 01:27:59,361 --> 01:28:03,626 there's this very grounded empathy 1772 01:28:03,887 --> 01:28:07,934 with people suffering under these false conditions. 1773 01:28:09,980 --> 01:28:12,591 This very real portrayal, 1774 01:28:12,765 --> 01:28:15,594 very sobering portrayals of human beings that are still-- 1775 01:28:16,116 --> 01:28:17,422 they have a heart. 1776 01:28:17,857 --> 01:28:19,990 And that heart is what kind of keeps you going 1777 01:28:20,164 --> 01:28:24,081 as you suffer these various nightmare scenarios 1778 01:28:24,299 --> 01:28:26,475 that he throws your way, including the ultimate one 1779 01:28:26,649 --> 01:28:27,954 of just not knowing. 1780 01:28:28,651 --> 01:28:30,827 And I think that that's one of the ways that people 1781 01:28:31,001 --> 01:28:33,220 get attracted to simulation hypothesis 1782 01:28:33,482 --> 01:28:36,659 is because it seems to maybe solve problems. 1783 01:28:37,486 --> 01:28:40,619 But I think it just makes the problems even more... 1784 01:28:41,620 --> 01:28:44,014 you know, kind of poignant and in your face. 1785 01:28:47,713 --> 01:28:49,759 Joshua: [over phone] So when I met my lawyers 1786 01:28:49,933 --> 01:28:52,544 for the first time in Fairfax jail 1787 01:28:52,718 --> 01:28:55,852 they asked me about my crime and... 1788 01:28:56,069 --> 01:28:57,593 and I told them I said, 1789 01:28:57,941 --> 01:28:59,421 "I did my thing just like Neo inThe Matrix. 1790 01:29:00,378 --> 01:29:02,119 Like I was in virtual reality." 1791 01:29:03,555 --> 01:29:06,863 And that really took them by surprise. 1792 01:29:07,037 --> 01:29:08,255 They weren't expecting that. 1793 01:29:08,821 --> 01:29:10,823 I also told them that the moment of my crime, 1794 01:29:11,868 --> 01:29:13,826 I had also felt a tinge of remorse, 1795 01:29:14,349 --> 01:29:16,829 because it was two strong things 1796 01:29:17,003 --> 01:29:18,527 at the same time, 1797 01:29:18,831 --> 01:29:20,920 that I was entering the world, or exiting the world 1798 01:29:21,094 --> 01:29:22,400 of the Matrix. 1799 01:29:22,966 --> 01:29:24,837 And then real life, with what I did to my parents. 1800 01:29:26,186 --> 01:29:28,450 My lawyers later went to my house, 1801 01:29:28,711 --> 01:29:30,408 and they went upstairs to my room 1802 01:29:30,582 --> 01:29:36,066 and they saw my enormous Matrix movie poster on my wall. 1803 01:29:36,632 --> 01:29:38,373 And they saw my black trench coat 1804 01:29:38,547 --> 01:29:40,549 laying out on my bed, smoothed out on my bed. 1805 01:29:40,723 --> 01:29:41,898 They saw my black boots. 1806 01:29:43,073 --> 01:29:44,379 The ones like Neo wore. 1807 01:29:45,510 --> 01:29:46,990 And they began to think 1808 01:29:47,469 --> 01:29:50,123 that they may have an insanity defense. 1809 01:29:53,431 --> 01:29:56,913 They said that I, quote, "Harbored a bona fide belief 1810 01:29:57,087 --> 01:29:59,829 that I was living in the virtual world ofThe Matrix 1811 01:30:00,395 --> 01:30:01,483 at the time of the murders." 1812 01:30:02,527 --> 01:30:04,050 That was part of my defense. 1813 01:30:05,530 --> 01:30:07,489 - This isn't real? - What is real? 1814 01:30:07,793 --> 01:30:09,447 Joshua: Which was later dubbed 1815 01:30:09,621 --> 01:30:10,709 The Matrix Defense. 1816 01:30:11,014 --> 01:30:12,450 Computer voice: The Matrix Defense 1817 01:30:12,624 --> 01:30:14,278 is a version of the insanity defense 1818 01:30:14,496 --> 01:30:16,672 and is a descendant of The Taxi Driver Defense 1819 01:30:16,846 --> 01:30:17,890 of John Hinckley. 1820 01:30:19,109 --> 01:30:22,199 It has been used multiple times since Joshua's trial, 1821 01:30:22,504 --> 01:30:26,421 most notably by Lee Malvo, aka The D.C. Sniper. 1822 01:30:27,509 --> 01:30:29,032 Joshua: [over phone] The doctor, the psychologist, 1823 01:30:29,989 --> 01:30:31,861 Dr. Shostak, he diagnosed me 1824 01:30:32,035 --> 01:30:34,516 with a form of schizophrenia called simple schizophrenia, 1825 01:30:34,777 --> 01:30:36,866 and that's when he made the declaration 1826 01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:39,782 that people are scarcely real to me and things like that. 1827 01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,960 There were different events that happened in my life, 1828 01:30:44,700 --> 01:30:47,616 different things I was feeling that were in a combination 1829 01:30:48,094 --> 01:30:49,444 led up to me exploding. 1830 01:30:50,488 --> 01:30:52,055 The abuse I had been suffering 1831 01:30:52,229 --> 01:30:54,405 from my parents at home for many, many years. 1832 01:30:54,666 --> 01:30:56,363 And then I had the bullying at school 1833 01:30:56,886 --> 01:31:00,367 and the undiagnosed mental illness I had for years. 1834 01:31:00,542 --> 01:31:02,021 And all of that together 1835 01:31:02,195 --> 01:31:03,762 kind of formed a ticking time bomb. 1836 01:31:04,807 --> 01:31:06,635 I call it the perfect storm. 1837 01:31:06,809 --> 01:31:12,118 But I, myself, I never made any excuses for my crime. 1838 01:31:12,597 --> 01:31:14,773 And I just wanted to die, you know? 1839 01:31:14,947 --> 01:31:17,559 It was like, just forget about all of this stuff, you know. 1840 01:31:18,429 --> 01:31:19,691 And as a matter of fact, 1841 01:31:19,865 --> 01:31:21,214 at the end of my sentence hearing 1842 01:31:21,388 --> 01:31:23,521 I got to say a written statement 1843 01:31:23,695 --> 01:31:25,305 to the judge out loud there. 1844 01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:28,134 And there I just, I told him that 1845 01:31:28,700 --> 01:31:29,962 I wasn't making any excuses, 1846 01:31:30,136 --> 01:31:31,355 and I deserved the death penalty, 1847 01:31:31,529 --> 01:31:32,399 I deserved to die. 1848 01:31:33,226 --> 01:31:35,577 And I think about what I did every day. 1849 01:31:35,838 --> 01:31:37,579 I wish I could take it back. You know? 1850 01:31:38,493 --> 01:31:40,625 Computer voice: Ultimately, Joshua decided not 1851 01:31:40,799 --> 01:31:43,149 to pursue The Matrix Defense and pled guilty. 1852 01:31:43,889 --> 01:31:46,109 He was 19 years old when convicted. 1853 01:31:46,979 --> 01:31:50,461 He is not due to be released until 2043. 1854 01:31:52,202 --> 01:31:53,899 Joshua: [over phone] The movie, The Matrix movie 1855 01:31:54,073 --> 01:31:56,206 has affected people in all sorts of different ways. 1856 01:31:56,467 --> 01:31:58,034 It all depends on where you're coming from 1857 01:31:58,208 --> 01:31:59,383 and the psychology of it. 1858 01:32:00,079 --> 01:32:01,994 Mine is just kind of an extreme case. 1859 01:32:02,952 --> 01:32:04,693 There are people out there today 1860 01:32:05,258 --> 01:32:06,912 who may be listening to this 1861 01:32:07,086 --> 01:32:09,219 that are going through the same things that I was. 1862 01:32:10,133 --> 01:32:11,656 And this is the whole reason why 1863 01:32:11,830 --> 01:32:13,789 I'm even talking about this today 1864 01:32:14,616 --> 01:32:17,270 because I know I have a purpose, 1865 01:32:17,444 --> 01:32:19,229 a calling in my life to try to reach them. 1866 01:32:20,535 --> 01:32:23,015 Computer voice: Joshua wrote a book about his experience 1867 01:32:23,189 --> 01:32:25,191 in hopes of reaching other troubled kids 1868 01:32:25,365 --> 01:32:27,890 and stopping them from repeating his mistakes. 1869 01:32:29,718 --> 01:32:31,937 Now that I'm in my mid-40's... 1870 01:32:32,938 --> 01:32:36,246 I am actually finally able to deal with people 1871 01:32:36,420 --> 01:32:37,334 as human beings. 1872 01:32:38,422 --> 01:32:39,989 And you could think of it one way, 1873 01:32:40,250 --> 01:32:42,469 if people are simulated, they're getting better 1874 01:32:42,644 --> 01:32:44,080 and they're easier to relate to, 1875 01:32:44,254 --> 01:32:47,692 but is it possible that I saw everyone 1876 01:32:47,866 --> 01:32:50,565 as these sort of robotic humans walking around 1877 01:32:50,913 --> 01:32:53,393 because I couldn't figure them out 1878 01:32:53,611 --> 01:32:55,091 because of a problem with my brain? 1879 01:32:55,657 --> 01:32:56,919 And that's the thing, 1880 01:32:57,136 --> 01:32:59,225 I never wanna get locked into the idea 1881 01:32:59,399 --> 01:33:00,662 that this is all fake 1882 01:33:01,010 --> 01:33:02,577 if in fact the reason I thought it was fake 1883 01:33:02,751 --> 01:33:05,405 is because it was an easier way for me to deal 1884 01:33:05,580 --> 01:33:07,973 with the complexity of human existence. 1885 01:33:09,671 --> 01:33:15,894 I feel like being fully in the body with another 1886 01:33:16,678 --> 01:33:19,594 is like sort of maybe like seeing the light, you know? 1887 01:33:19,768 --> 01:33:22,858 It's the "petite mort" of orgasm. 1888 01:33:23,032 --> 01:33:26,035 Or just like the fusing of consciousness with an other. 1889 01:33:26,209 --> 01:33:27,776 Audre Lorde talks about the erotic. 1890 01:33:27,950 --> 01:33:33,129 And I think the erotic as a dynamic in reality 1891 01:33:33,303 --> 01:33:35,653 is an antidote to solipsism. 1892 01:33:35,827 --> 01:33:37,568 It's an antidote to a lack of empathy. 1893 01:33:37,786 --> 01:33:39,396 Because it allows us to sort of 1894 01:33:39,570 --> 01:33:42,094 have a playful relationship to the other. 1895 01:33:42,442 --> 01:33:44,749 There's that scene inThe Matrix Reloaded 1896 01:33:44,923 --> 01:33:48,274 where Morpheus gives a speech and tells everyone 1897 01:33:48,448 --> 01:33:49,972 that they're about to be attacked 1898 01:33:50,146 --> 01:33:51,408 by the machines. 1899 01:33:51,713 --> 01:33:53,584 This might be their last night alive. 1900 01:33:54,063 --> 01:33:57,588 The machines have gathered an army, and as I speak 1901 01:33:58,197 --> 01:34:00,722 that army is drawing nearer to our home. 1902 01:34:01,244 --> 01:34:02,898 [crowd murmuring] 1903 01:34:04,160 --> 01:34:05,291 Emily: So, what do they do? 1904 01:34:05,814 --> 01:34:07,859 They play music. They dance. 1905 01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:11,123 And in the midst of this stew of flesh... 1906 01:34:11,776 --> 01:34:15,432 Trinity and Neo sneak off to this catacomb and make love. 1907 01:34:16,433 --> 01:34:18,653 This is a scene that gets parodied a lot. 1908 01:34:18,870 --> 01:34:20,698 I think it's easy to not take it seriously 1909 01:34:20,872 --> 01:34:21,917 because it's so earnest. 1910 01:34:22,831 --> 01:34:24,397 But it's also very tender. 1911 01:34:24,702 --> 01:34:26,486 It shows the characters at their most vulnerable 1912 01:34:26,661 --> 01:34:27,662 with each other. 1913 01:34:28,488 --> 01:34:31,840 Neo tells Trinity that he's afraid of losing her. 1914 01:34:32,362 --> 01:34:36,061 And she says, "You're not gonna lose me." 1915 01:34:36,540 --> 01:34:38,542 She holds his hand, "You feel this?" 1916 01:34:40,370 --> 01:34:41,719 "I'm never letting go." 1917 01:34:42,589 --> 01:34:43,634 That's love. 1918 01:34:44,504 --> 01:34:46,681 You have to be very vulnerable to feel it. 1919 01:34:48,030 --> 01:34:51,294 I think loneliness and isolation and trauma 1920 01:34:51,468 --> 01:34:53,862 play very heavily in the kinds of realities 1921 01:34:54,036 --> 01:34:55,820 that people construct for themselves. 1922 01:35:01,043 --> 01:35:02,653 Brother Mystwood: And if there's a player 1923 01:35:02,827 --> 01:35:05,134 that is responsible for me and is playing me... 1924 01:35:06,831 --> 01:35:09,921 then, you know, maybe he's a genius, 1925 01:35:10,182 --> 01:35:11,706 but maybe he's like a 12-year-old kid. 1926 01:35:13,925 --> 01:35:17,015 So the thing I've gotta do is I've gotta keep leveling up 1927 01:35:17,363 --> 01:35:19,539 and I've gotta stay interesting for him. 1928 01:35:20,497 --> 01:35:22,934 Rodney: Do you make different choices than you might 1929 01:35:23,108 --> 01:35:25,589 otherwise in order to keep your player interested? 1930 01:35:25,981 --> 01:35:27,330 The way I think about is, you know, 1931 01:35:27,504 --> 01:35:28,810 if you're playing a video game 1932 01:35:29,245 --> 01:35:31,334 and sometimes you see like a giant blinking cursor 1933 01:35:31,508 --> 01:35:32,727 telling you to go to a certain place. 1934 01:35:32,901 --> 01:35:34,685 I keep looking for those. 1935 01:35:34,859 --> 01:35:37,427 And when I see one, I'll stop and I'll pause and I'll say... 1936 01:35:38,123 --> 01:35:40,386 "Thank you for that," and I'll, you know-- 1937 01:35:40,604 --> 01:35:42,040 And then every once in a while, 1938 01:35:42,214 --> 01:35:43,389 I'll just make a completely batshit decision 1939 01:35:43,563 --> 01:35:45,217 that no one seems to understand. [laughs] 1940 01:35:45,435 --> 01:35:47,219 Including myself! Like, "Well, well, well!" 1941 01:35:47,393 --> 01:35:48,525 I hope you're interested. 1942 01:35:48,699 --> 01:35:50,048 Just like all the other theories, 1943 01:35:50,222 --> 01:35:52,659 no one's gonna know until they're dead. 1944 01:35:54,923 --> 01:35:57,447 And I don't believe that it's flawed enough 1945 01:35:57,621 --> 01:35:59,275 that it could somehow tear... 1946 01:36:00,102 --> 01:36:04,062 and we'd find ourselves exposed out ofThe Matrix. 1947 01:36:04,671 --> 01:36:05,934 I don't think that's how it works. 1948 01:36:06,108 --> 01:36:08,414 I think that it's a solid system. 1949 01:36:08,588 --> 01:36:11,069 And whatever it is, ends when you die. 1950 01:36:11,896 --> 01:36:14,681 But it's totally plausible that you then wake up 1951 01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:18,642 in an arcade in the year 3000 and put another quarter in 1952 01:36:18,816 --> 01:36:21,558 and do another life on Earth in the year 2019, you know? 1953 01:36:21,863 --> 01:36:24,256 There are these kind of fundamental metaphors 1954 01:36:24,430 --> 01:36:28,870 about reality that we develop through being humans 1955 01:36:29,044 --> 01:36:31,873 moving through time and space on a planet. 1956 01:36:32,134 --> 01:36:35,877 So the metaphor of the journey, "Life is like a journey." 1957 01:36:36,181 --> 01:36:38,880 Well, another one we have, and we all have it is, 1958 01:36:39,228 --> 01:36:41,447 - waking up from a dream. - [screaming] 1959 01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:47,671 "What? Oh, I'm in this world!" 1960 01:36:47,932 --> 01:36:51,762 And just that. Not what the nature of this world was, 1961 01:36:51,936 --> 01:36:53,416 or the nature of that world is. 1962 01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:56,506 We have this fundamental cognitive experience 1963 01:36:57,463 --> 01:36:59,814 of shifting between ontological frames, 1964 01:36:59,988 --> 01:37:01,598 sometimes quite abruptly. 1965 01:37:01,816 --> 01:37:03,469 Sometimes with intense emotions. 1966 01:37:03,818 --> 01:37:05,341 And this is just stitched into us. 1967 01:37:06,037 --> 01:37:09,649 So it's a fundamental hunch that we all have 1968 01:37:10,302 --> 01:37:12,609 that the world is not what it seems. 1969 01:37:12,827 --> 01:37:14,306 There's another world behind this world, 1970 01:37:14,480 --> 01:37:16,047 or at the very least, 1971 01:37:16,482 --> 01:37:19,268 this world is capable of falling apart. 1972 01:37:19,442 --> 01:37:20,791 - Truman: What's happening? - Security guard: Nothing. 1973 01:37:21,661 --> 01:37:23,054 Rodney: I don't know, does thinking about 1974 01:37:23,228 --> 01:37:24,751 the simulation, does that excite you? 1975 01:37:24,926 --> 01:37:28,233 Or does it sometimes fill you with unease? 1976 01:37:33,064 --> 01:37:33,978 Well, I guess... 1977 01:37:36,067 --> 01:37:39,941 I've had this simulation argument 1978 01:37:40,115 --> 01:37:43,161 for so long now that it's hard to sort of 1979 01:37:43,814 --> 01:37:45,163 consider the counter faction. 1980 01:37:45,468 --> 01:37:47,165 'Cause it's kind of become so much a part of 1981 01:37:47,818 --> 01:37:49,907 the way I view the world, 1982 01:37:50,081 --> 01:37:50,908 the simulation argument. 1983 01:37:53,824 --> 01:37:54,781 I do think that... 1984 01:37:57,436 --> 01:38:00,700 it makes it quite... 1985 01:38:04,226 --> 01:38:05,575 compelling that 1986 01:38:06,097 --> 01:38:09,231 this very general notion, that there are more things... 1987 01:38:12,016 --> 01:38:13,191 in heaven and on earth 1988 01:38:14,018 --> 01:38:16,151 than are dreamt of in our philosophy. 1989 01:38:16,368 --> 01:38:20,329 This sense that we are plausibly very, very limited 1990 01:38:21,330 --> 01:38:23,506 in our understanding of what the heck is going on. 1991 01:38:25,464 --> 01:38:28,424 We have made progress in that maybe we have figured out, 1992 01:38:29,381 --> 01:38:31,775 you know, six of the 10 things you need to have figured out 1993 01:38:31,949 --> 01:38:33,255 to really know what's going on. 1994 01:38:33,733 --> 01:38:36,171 But the thing is that each of the remaining four things 1995 01:38:36,911 --> 01:38:38,782 might so radically change the conclusions 1996 01:38:40,131 --> 01:38:41,524 that, until we get them all right, 1997 01:38:41,698 --> 01:38:43,265 maybe we are as lost 1998 01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:45,963 as you would be if you only knew one or zero. 1999 01:38:50,359 --> 01:38:51,316 [wheezes] 2000 01:38:55,842 --> 01:38:57,322 Jesse: I was lying in bed, I was thinking about it. 2001 01:38:57,496 --> 01:38:58,933 So hypothetically, 2002 01:38:59,107 --> 01:39:01,500 what if tomorrow I dress in all white 2003 01:39:01,674 --> 01:39:03,546 I slick my hair back, and I'm like, "Hey," 2004 01:39:03,763 --> 01:39:05,287 I tell the local media, 2005 01:39:06,114 --> 01:39:08,551 "Here's the message that we should be good to each other, 2006 01:39:08,725 --> 01:39:10,292 I'm starting a new thing." 2007 01:39:11,075 --> 01:39:12,903 Building up almost like a religion, 2008 01:39:13,077 --> 01:39:14,470 or just more of a philosophy of, 2009 01:39:14,644 --> 01:39:16,080 "Hey, we are in a simulation, 2010 01:39:16,428 --> 01:39:19,562 so let's, let's try and gain the attention of those people." 2011 01:39:20,693 --> 01:39:22,434 Now, those entities are running the thing. 2012 01:39:23,218 --> 01:39:25,437 So going forth here, we could do things like, 2013 01:39:26,134 --> 01:39:28,571 you know, gigantic light, like... 2014 01:39:30,138 --> 01:39:31,835 simultaneous light displays, 2015 01:39:33,880 --> 01:39:37,188 giant monuments, just a giant tablet that says, 2016 01:39:37,362 --> 01:39:40,539 "Hey, we know-- " or something profound. 2017 01:39:41,540 --> 01:39:44,630 And then in unison just flashing lights out. 2018 01:39:44,804 --> 01:39:47,459 So, one person walks by this black sphere 2019 01:39:47,633 --> 01:39:50,985 in their great artificer hallway 2020 01:39:51,246 --> 01:39:53,030 and all of a sudden there's a red light blinking 2021 01:39:53,204 --> 01:39:54,858 that was never there before. They'd be like, "Oh, hey. 2022 01:39:56,555 --> 01:39:59,428 Experiment whatever is talking to us." 2023 01:40:00,211 --> 01:40:02,648 I mean, who knows, if we just keep going with it 2024 01:40:02,822 --> 01:40:04,476 and going with it and going with it. 2025 01:40:04,694 --> 01:40:09,960 Do things like organize Earth in a more watchful pattern 2026 01:40:10,134 --> 01:40:11,701 to get ourselves spread over the universe. 2027 01:40:11,875 --> 01:40:14,269 'Cause the larger screen we have to display our message, 2028 01:40:14,443 --> 01:40:16,010 the more attention we'll get. 2029 01:40:20,971 --> 01:40:21,798 Lori: You're dreaming. 2030 01:40:23,147 --> 01:40:25,584 Doug, was it about Mars? 2031 01:40:30,589 --> 01:40:32,026 Elon Musk: Becoming a multi-planet species 2032 01:40:32,983 --> 01:40:35,290 beats the hell out of being a single-planet species. 2033 01:40:36,465 --> 01:40:37,640 Jesse: Then we get to, like... 2034 01:40:38,380 --> 01:40:41,035 Star Wars levels of spread across the galaxy. 2035 01:40:41,383 --> 01:40:42,949 Perhaps our science will progress enough 2036 01:40:43,167 --> 01:40:44,125 where we can actually 2037 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:46,649 tap on the membrane between... 2038 01:40:47,519 --> 01:40:50,305 the universe and what's beyond it 2039 01:40:50,566 --> 01:40:52,002 and perhaps get a message out, 2040 01:40:52,176 --> 01:40:54,831 an active message to an active listener. 2041 01:40:55,310 --> 01:40:56,963 Man: I don't like to fuss or moan, 2042 01:40:57,138 --> 01:40:58,835 but if it weren't for you, 2043 01:40:59,444 --> 01:41:00,706 I'd be all, all alone. 2044 01:41:02,056 --> 01:41:03,753 It would be hilarious if we were something stupid, 2045 01:41:03,927 --> 01:41:05,450 like, you know how computers are in everything. 2046 01:41:07,626 --> 01:41:11,108 I mean, there's a computer-- this is a vape tank. 2047 01:41:11,456 --> 01:41:13,893 There's a computer in here. There's a microchip in here. 2048 01:41:14,459 --> 01:41:15,765 But if we're something like... 2049 01:41:17,158 --> 01:41:18,463 one of the numerous computer devices 2050 01:41:18,637 --> 01:41:21,466 that's been thrown into a basket somewhere 2051 01:41:21,771 --> 01:41:22,946 'cause you have too much crap. 2052 01:41:23,729 --> 01:41:25,209 That would suck, 'cause then we would never be found. 2053 01:41:26,210 --> 01:41:29,431 Maybe this whole project that you're doing, right, 2054 01:41:29,953 --> 01:41:33,739 is the simulation sort of flirting with you, if you will. 2055 01:41:33,913 --> 01:41:36,133 Like it's going, "Hey, I'm gonna go ahead 2056 01:41:36,307 --> 01:41:37,482 and let you see a little bit 2057 01:41:38,657 --> 01:41:40,311 what I've got going on under here. 2058 01:41:40,572 --> 01:41:44,185 And I'm okay with it as long as you respect me." 2059 01:41:47,101 --> 01:41:50,626 What if the simulation is like anesthesia? 2060 01:41:51,540 --> 01:41:53,063 Imagine, if you will, 2061 01:41:53,716 --> 01:41:55,935 that you're going through surgery... 2062 01:41:57,372 --> 01:41:58,895 and all of a sudden somebody 2063 01:41:59,069 --> 01:41:59,852 introduces something in your bloodstream 2064 01:42:00,026 --> 01:42:01,767 that totally makes 2065 01:42:01,941 --> 01:42:04,161 - the anesthetic go away. - [heart beating rapidly] 2066 01:42:04,335 --> 01:42:05,815 Paul: Your chest cavity's open, 2067 01:42:05,989 --> 01:42:07,425 there's somebody with their hand in it 2068 01:42:07,599 --> 01:42:09,079 and they're trying to massage your heart. 2069 01:42:09,253 --> 01:42:10,950 And all of a sudden you're back, lucid, 2070 01:42:11,255 --> 01:42:13,257 all the pain in the world, and everything like that. 2071 01:42:13,475 --> 01:42:14,780 You're gonna mess up that surgery 2072 01:42:14,954 --> 01:42:15,912 by freaking out and flipping around 2073 01:42:16,086 --> 01:42:17,348 and all that. 2074 01:42:17,522 --> 01:42:19,089 Maybe that's what the simulation is. 2075 01:42:19,263 --> 01:42:21,570 And by putting this project out there, 2076 01:42:22,136 --> 01:42:23,963 we're messing up big time 2077 01:42:24,442 --> 01:42:25,835 and you're gonna cause a lot of damage. 2078 01:42:26,357 --> 01:42:28,359 [screaming] 2079 01:42:28,751 --> 01:42:29,665 [beeping] 2080 01:42:30,318 --> 01:42:31,667 Paul: The other option, though, 2081 01:42:31,884 --> 01:42:36,106 maybe this is the-- the key, if you will. 2082 01:42:36,976 --> 01:42:40,893 Maybe this is a situation where the simulation is bad, 2083 01:42:41,590 --> 01:42:45,071 we shouldn't be in it, and this is a failsafe. 2084 01:42:45,246 --> 01:42:48,945 [echoes] 2085 01:42:49,511 --> 01:42:51,295 Paul: So the person watching this goes, 2086 01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,776 "Oh, maybe that's what's happening with me." 2087 01:42:55,821 --> 01:42:57,562 And maybe, who knows, you know, 2088 01:42:57,736 --> 01:43:01,262 they're in suspended animation somewhere. 2089 01:43:02,654 --> 01:43:03,829 They're the ones who are supposed 2090 01:43:04,047 --> 01:43:05,483 to pilot the ship. 2091 01:43:05,744 --> 01:43:07,833 They're knocked out. They're not responsive. 2092 01:43:08,356 --> 01:43:12,534 And so they create this movie for them to watch 2093 01:43:12,708 --> 01:43:14,753 so that they start questioning reality, 2094 01:43:17,452 --> 01:43:18,975 and therefore get out of it. 2095 01:43:19,671 --> 01:43:21,847 [dramatic music playing] 2096 01:43:23,501 --> 01:43:26,504 [alarms blaring] 2097 01:43:26,896 --> 01:43:29,464 [spaceship rumbling] 2098 01:43:30,465 --> 01:43:32,336 [alarms blaring] 2099 01:43:58,057 --> 01:44:01,104 Paul: I have, through dreaming and waking up, 2100 01:44:01,539 --> 01:44:03,541 lived thousands of different lifetimes. 2101 01:44:04,194 --> 01:44:07,458 And so I'm not afraid of what happens 2102 01:44:07,632 --> 01:44:08,981 when the simulation ends. 2103 01:44:09,460 --> 01:44:14,465 I am certain that when I die, 2104 01:44:14,639 --> 01:44:16,206 I will simply wake up somewhere else. 2105 01:44:16,380 --> 01:44:18,469 How do I know? Because I remember doing it 2106 01:44:18,643 --> 01:44:19,731 over and over and over again. 2107 01:44:20,036 --> 01:44:21,298 [gunshot] 2108 01:44:28,784 --> 01:44:30,307 Alarm: Good morning. 2109 01:44:30,612 --> 01:44:31,874 This is your wake-up call. 2110 01:44:32,527 --> 01:44:34,572 Thank you for staying at the New Darwin Inn. 2111 01:44:35,051 --> 01:44:37,140 - The time is 10:30 A.M. - [clicks] 2112 01:44:40,883 --> 01:44:42,711 [fire crackling]