1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,240 Hi. Oh, yes. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:04,900 Hello. Oh, my goodness. 3 00:00:04,900 --> 00:00:06,640 Hello! 4 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,000 The shy schoolboy who became a global celebrity - 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,920 Sir Richard Branson is a very British bundle of contradictions. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,920 The dyslexic who set up a student magazine. 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,600 The record-label founder who didn't listen to music. 8 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,800 The '60s hippie who became a multibillionaire. 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,720 Today he's got his own island, 10 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,600 and his brand has dozens of companies to its name, 11 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:33,560 from Virgin Atlantic 12 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,840 to Galactic. 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:41,640 But after five decades in business, reinventing whole industries, 14 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,120 Sir Richard Branson has been tested as never before, 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,400 both financially and emotionally. 16 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,840 The pandemic left the 72-year-old fighting to save his empire 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,680 and his reputation. 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,480 He's faced questions over how he's used women 19 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,080 to promote his brand. 20 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,640 And sceptics have asked why someone who campaigns on climate change 21 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,840 is sending rockets into space. 22 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,800 The original rebel entrepreneur continues to grab the headlines 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,160 and confound his critics. 24 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,800 I've come to Miami to hear the whole story. 25 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,600 Sir Richard Branson, 26 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,400 thank you so much for speaking to me and to the BBC. 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,680 How are you? 28 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,520 I'm good. I always think sitting down to do interviews like this 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,240 is a bit like - I've never been in a psychiatrist's chair - 30 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,720 it's a bit like being in a psychiatrist's chair. 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,840 Are you nervous? Me? Of course I'm nervous. 32 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,560 Is there anything I can do to...? We'll see how you are in an hour. 33 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,280 So, just to be clear, you've not seen or approved the questions 34 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,520 in advance. Nothing's off the table, right? 35 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,400 I'm afraid... I'm afraid that's the case. 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,960 You'd be much less nervous if it wasn't the case! 37 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,320 If you google "Richard Branson", the thing that comes up 38 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,680 in the auto-search is net worth. 39 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,480 I mean, people are obsessed with the fortunes of the rich and famous. 40 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:03,360 It's very rude to ask a man how much he's worth, 41 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,240 so I'm not going to do that. So let me ask instead, 42 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,480 how much did you lose through the pandemic? Did you lose 43 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,040 a lot of money personally in trying to save your companies? 44 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,040 So, the answer is yes. I mean, obviously it cost us 45 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:14,680 a big percentage of our net worth, maybe a billion and a half. 46 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,000 And, yeah, so there was a time 47 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,960 where it really looked like we were going to lose everything. 48 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,440 We had 50, 60 planes all on the ground 49 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,240 at Heathrow and Gatwick, 50 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,800 and in Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane. 51 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,880 And the health clubs all closed, the hotels all closed. 52 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,120 And the worst would have been, you know, 53 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,120 60,000 people out in the streets. 54 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,680 We sold shares in companies that were public, 55 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,040 and that was one way we managed to find money, 56 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,040 and most jobs were saved as a result. 57 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,640 But personally, I was fortunate in that... 58 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,480 ..our kids managed to get to the island 59 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,040 and our grandkids got to the island. 60 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,520 And so although I experienced maybe a couple of months 61 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,720 of what people must feel when they're, yeah, pretty low, 62 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,000 and I'd never experienced that before my life... 63 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,720 Do you mean that for the first time in your life you were depressed? 64 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,840 Yeah, I was certainly...certainly a little depressed. 65 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,560 But, you know, talking about net worth, 66 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,880 I mean, you know, one of the things, I suppose, 67 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,520 if I resent anything in life, is the tag "billionaire". 68 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,880 I think people don't address you by your net worth, 69 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:35,160 they call you by your name. 70 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,400 Yeah. And what I've spent my lifetime doing is building ventures 71 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,560 that hopefully will make a really positive difference 72 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:43,680 to people's lives. 73 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,240 In the past, you've written in your book that reputation 74 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,040 is everything, and your reputation took a bit of a hit 75 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,520 during that early phase in the pandemic 76 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,600 because senior members of your team had written to the Government 77 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,080 saying that they needed hundreds of millions of pounds 78 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,600 in a Government loan to save the company and save your airline, 79 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,040 and yet there was coverage, people saying, "Hang on. 80 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 "Branson's a billionaire. He lives on an island in the Caribbean. 81 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,880 "You know, surely he can find the money." 82 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:17,960 I'd never really had any coverage quite as painful as that. Really? 83 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,280 And it's complicated. 84 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:23,040 So it's difficult to explain to people when everybody is hurting. 85 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:25,560 I mean, there were pretty well no families that weren't hurting. 86 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,000 But what we were concerned to do 87 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,040 was try to get Government support... 88 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,920 ..as happened in America, as happened in France, 89 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,280 as happened in Italy - 90 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,680 not gifts from Government, but underwriting loans 91 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,560 so that the cost to the airline going forward 92 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,200 was not going to be prohibitive. 93 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,760 It's interesting, given the... 94 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,000 You know, given your very interesting relationship 95 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,280 with the media over 50 years, that you should say 96 00:04:52,280 --> 00:04:54,320 you've never had such sort of negative coverage. 97 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:56,920 Do you think that's just because you're the face of your airline 98 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,960 in a way that British Airways doesn't have a face? 99 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,480 Do you think that's why they said, "Let's go after Richard"? 100 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,960 I think there's an element of that. I mean, I get... 101 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,440 You know, I would say that 99% of the coverage 102 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,520 I've had in my lifetime has been fair. 103 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,920 I mean, I've occasionally had criticisms, 104 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,280 but I would say they were fair criticisms, 105 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:17,680 and it's quite rare to have had a major knock. 106 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,680 But I think, you know, I remember Sir Freddie Laker once saying to me, 107 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,040 "The way to deal with press backlash is prove them wrong." 108 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:29,000 And so basically what we ended up doing was just getting on 109 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,560 and proving that our teams were good enough 110 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,720 to come bouncing back. 111 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:35,680 Someone who I spoke to who you worked with 112 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,600 said if you hadn't called the company Virgin, 113 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:39,800 you might have called it Phoenix because you've often, 114 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,040 phoenix-from-the-ashes-like, you have bounced back, 115 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,400 and you flew into space. 116 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,640 Three, two, one. 117 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,040 Release, release, release. 118 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,360 Fire, fire. 119 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,720 In a life full of extraordinary experiences, where did that rank? 120 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,600 I've had a lot of pinch-me... pinch-me moments in my life, 121 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,560 but that that definitely culminated them all. 122 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,960 I remember the next morning, before I opened my eyes, 123 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:07,960 just lying there and... 124 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,520 ..and thinking, "Was that a dream?" 125 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:13,840 Do you mind if I ask you to watch it 126 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:16,240 and just describe to us what was it you were going through? 127 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:17,360 Not at all. 128 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,440 Just hit play. 129 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Yeah. So we've...we've gone from 0 to 3,000mph 130 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:29,800 in seven or eight seconds, 131 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,560 so you've got this incredible rush 132 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,440 as you go up into space 133 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,360 and then the absolute silence of space. 134 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,040 I looked back at the Earth and said a few words to kids. 135 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,360 To all you kids down there, 136 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,080 I was once a child with a dream 137 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,440 looking up to the stars. 138 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,480 Now I'm an adult in a spaceship 139 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,560 with lots of other wonderful adults, 140 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,280 looking down to our beautiful, beautiful Earth. 141 00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:00,520 Cos it was as a kid that I'd been inspired to go to space, 142 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,480 watching the moon with my parents 143 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,360 and realising that there were actually people on the moon 144 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,480 when I was watching it. 145 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,560 And then that incredible moment where you just unbuckle 146 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,840 and you just drift out of your seat 147 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,280 and float up to the ceiling and look down. 148 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,120 And there are, you know, other young people just going swimming... 149 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,200 ..swimming through the air beneath you. 150 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,880 And then beneath them is Earth, 151 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,280 and that spectacular view through those spectacular windows. 152 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,400 And obviously, look, we'd had 18 years to get to that point. 153 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,800 We'd had tears, but this was definitely a day of joy 154 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,920 and an incredible moment. 155 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,800 There is this thing called the overview effect, 156 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,480 which astronauts talk about, which, you know, you experienced. 157 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,760 Is it almost like a sort of religious experience, 158 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,200 this almost otherworldly experience, quite literally? 159 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,920 I think for many people it is. 160 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,600 And there's a beautiful book called The Overview Effect, 161 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,040 which interviews all the astronauts who've been to space. 162 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,720 I didn't have a sort of lightning bolt hit me, 163 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,200 but it was just one of those most extraordinary days, 164 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,840 every aspect of it. 165 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,040 Just the whole day's experience was extraordinary. 166 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,320 And I think... You know, the other lovely thing was having spent 167 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,000 so many years building it, one realises that, you know, 168 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,440 there will be, over the next hundred years, thousands of people 169 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,920 are going to be able to have that same experience. 170 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,000 Is that the thing? Because I was going to ask you, 171 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,400 why is space travel a good use of your time and money? 172 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,880 Prince William says when he launched the Earthshot Prize, 173 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,480 he said, "We need some of the world's greatest brains and minds 174 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,160 "fixed on trying to repair this planet, 175 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,280 "not trying to find the next place to go and live." 176 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,240 I've just been to Kenya with Bill Gates, your dear friend. 177 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,480 He's quoted on the front of your book, and he said 178 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,400 that spending a lot of money on space travel 179 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,000 when, you know, you can save a kid's life who's got malaria with $1,000 180 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000 was not a good use of money. What do you say to them? 181 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,880 And what do you say also to those who say, given climate change 182 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,480 is one of your top priorities, why are you sending rockets into space? 183 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,800 I 100% agree with them that we've got to concentrate 184 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:05,600 on dealing with a whole lot of issues in this world. 185 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:11,680 And most of my life is now spent on, you know, tackling a whole raft 186 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,960 of different...different issues in the world. 187 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,240 And I think some of those issues are made easier to deal with 188 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:18,760 by the fact that I have been to space, 189 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,480 so I can now pick up the phone to pretty well anybody in the world, 190 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,400 get through, cut through the red tape, 191 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:25,760 and hopefully get things sorted. 192 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,280 But having said that, space travel itself is incredibly important 193 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:35,480 for this Earth. Communication between people has been transformed 194 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,240 because of space travel and satellites up there. 195 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,120 Monitoring things like the depredation of the rainforest 196 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:47,400 or illegal fishing has been transformed by satellites up there. 197 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,120 All these are the kinds of benefits that come from space travel. 198 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,840 Critics say the environmental impact of space tourism 199 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,600 could undo decades of work to repair the ozone layer 200 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,040 and have a greater effect on the climate than the aviation industry. 201 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,840 What Virgin and our principal competitors have managed to do 202 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,280 is bring the environmental costs of space travel down dramatically 203 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,440 in terms of carbon cost. 204 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,000 Now that is a thousand times less 205 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,920 than it used to take Nasa to put people into space, 206 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,440 and that will come down even further. 207 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,560 You can't and shouldn't stop progress. 208 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,240 Through progress you get the breakthroughs. 209 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,120 You can never be quite sure what breakthrough you're going to get, 210 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,920 but you get these breakthroughs, and that will benefit the Earth. 211 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,360 Let's come down to Earth, then, 212 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,240 and go back in time to your childhood. 213 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,360 Shamley Green in Surrey. 214 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,000 There is this sort of sepia-tinged quality to your childhood. 215 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,120 You were raised by Ted and Eve, these heroes of the war. 216 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,040 You've often talked about its comfort, 217 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,520 and I think maybe it's because you don't want to hide the fact 218 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,000 that you were born into a comfortable and bucolic childhood. 219 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,320 But your childhood did have huge challenges, didn't it? 220 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,360 And you were sent away to boarding school at seven. 221 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,320 You know, my son Winston is seven in a few months 222 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:08,960 and he can barely tie his shoe laces. 223 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,360 I mean, he's a great kid, but the idea of him going off 224 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:12,840 to boarding school at seven... 225 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,080 It seems rather cruel in retrospect, doesn't it? 226 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,200 I know that my parents sent me to boarding school 227 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,560 because they thought that that was the best thing... 228 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:25,320 ..best thing for me and that was the way to bring us up tough, 229 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,680 and my mother would say "not to mollycoddle you at home", 230 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,640 but I think it was wrong. 231 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,200 I mean, we would never do it with our kids or our grandkids. 232 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,760 I remember distinctly - I was seven and a half - 233 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,040 you know, throwing up the first night, 234 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,800 and the matron coming in and telling me I had to mop up... 235 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,880 ..mop up the sheets myself. 236 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,760 And I just think that is a bit much for a seven-and-a-half-year-old. 237 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,760 That's awful. Yeah, not good. 238 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,960 Fortunately, I think things have changed a little bit 239 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,960 since those days. They have. 240 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,720 Not just in terms of when we send kids away, 241 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,720 but also our understanding of minds. When you were growing up, 242 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,760 the word entrepreneur had barely entered the lexicon 243 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,720 and the word dyslexia even less so. 244 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,480 You talk now about your dyslexia as a superpower, 245 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,120 which we'll get onto. 246 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,560 But just before we talk about it as a superpower, 247 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,320 people should understand when they're thinking about your story 248 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,200 that at school you were beaten, 249 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,640 you know, you received corporal punishment, beatings 250 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,800 for being stupid. 251 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:28,320 What happened exactly? 252 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,440 Oh, erm... 253 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,880 Er... 254 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,400 Yeah, we got beaten all the time. 255 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,280 You know, you'd be beaten with a bare arse 256 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,200 and sometimes till you bled. 257 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,880 So it was...it was... 258 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,840 Yeah, pretty...pretty horrendous in those days. 259 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,800 And, yeah, as a dyslexic, I thought I must be stupid 260 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,040 because, you know, they'd never heard of... 261 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:53,760 The word dyslexia didn't exist. 262 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,360 You hid those beatings from your mum, didn't you? 263 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,800 I'm... I don't know. I may have...I may have, er... 264 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:23,360 Yeah, I don't think... I don't think I would have mentioned it to her, 265 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:24,760 er, most likely. 266 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,920 Greta Thunberg told me that her Asperger's was her superpower. 267 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,200 Why is dyslexia your superpower? 268 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,840 With people who are dyslexic, they're apt to exceed at things 269 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,440 that they're good at and they become very good delegators at things 270 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,480 that they're not...not good at. 271 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,160 For me, one of the best things about being dyslexic 272 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,200 was that the things I was good at, 273 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,800 ie, finding out what was going on in the world, 274 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,000 reading about the Vietnamese War, 275 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,840 the Biafran War, led me to decide to start a magazine, 276 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,720 which is quite strange for a dyslexic person to have done. 277 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,800 Launched in 1968, Student was a national magazine 278 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,240 for young people, run from a ramshackle basement 279 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,200 and then the crypt of a church. 280 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,000 To help overcome his dyslexia, 281 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,800 Sir Richard would interview some of the most articulate people 282 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,000 in the world, from Jean-Paul Sartre to James Baldwin, 283 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,440 and then publish those recordings word for word. 284 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,480 When the headmaster said to me, 285 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,440 "You're either going to have to run the magazine and leave the school 286 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,160 "or not run the magazine and get on with your schoolwork," 287 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,040 it was an easy decision. 288 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,520 I decided to say, "Thank you very much. I'm off." 289 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,920 So, if I hadn't been dyslexic, 290 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,160 I most likely wouldn't have left school at 15, 16 years old, 291 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,560 and my life would have been very different. 292 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,640 Dyslexia has become a superpower 293 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,360 because I think I've become a really good delegator. 294 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,920 I find great people. I surround myself with wonderful people. 295 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,480 Hello, how are you? Nice to see you. 296 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,360 More than a thousand of Branson's people 297 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,280 were on board one of his cruise ships, the Valiant Lady, 298 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,720 when we join him hours before the boat set off for the Caribbean. 299 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,560 Good to see you. Yeah, nice to see you. 300 00:15:05,640 --> 00:15:08,800 Sir Richard entered the cruise ship business in 2021 301 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,920 with the first sailing of Virgin Voyages. 302 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,400 You're looking... Are you off for a few days, huh? 303 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:17,200 Yeah. Yeah? OK. Well, have a good trip. 304 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,120 One of the big things that you've spoken about throughout your career 305 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,400 is about hiring well - you know, bringing together the right people. 306 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,560 And you've got a very particular... I can see it walking round here. 307 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,840 You've got a very particular philosophy of hiring, 308 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,040 which is that you hire from within. Why do you do that? 309 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,880 Erm, well, first of all, we look...we look for character 310 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,960 rather than, you know, somebody's CV. 311 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,520 Erm, obviously, if you hire from within, 312 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,640 you're going to know somebody's good points and bad points 313 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,200 before you take them on, 314 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,520 and there's a danger that if you bring somebody in, 315 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,680 a so-called expert from outside, they will be a horrible mistake 316 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,400 and they will be bad with people 317 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,360 and they'll mess up...mess up a happy company, 318 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:01,960 and that's the last thing we want. 319 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,520 It's so interesting you say that about CVs, because I think 320 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:09,160 you may know I've got a big interest in social mobility and helping kids 321 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,120 from poorer backgrounds try and get into elite professions, 322 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,720 and the story they all feel that they're sold 323 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,800 is that if you really want to make it as an entrepreneur, 324 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,960 if you want to come to a place like Miami, 325 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,320 you need to pass ever more exams. You need to go to university, 326 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,880 you need to graduate. That's not true, is it? 327 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,600 I think it depends what profession you're trying to get into. 328 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,800 Erm, obviously, if you want to become a doctor, 329 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,920 you know, you had to go to university. 330 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,000 But if you want to be an entrepreneur, being an entrepreneur 331 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,800 is simply coming up with an idea to make other people's lives better 332 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,360 and then getting on and doing it and trying it, 333 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,320 and...and universities are not going to be able 334 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,160 to teach you that that well. 335 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:56,000 So... So, people who can't get into university, 336 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,400 a really good alternative for them is to just try setting up 337 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,880 a small little business, see how it goes. 338 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,320 If it doesn't work out, try again until they succeed. 339 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,160 And the young people from all around the UK who say to me, 340 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,880 because they're not from London and they've got strong accents 341 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,360 and they're very paranoid about their accent - they may come 342 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:16,280 from rural Somerset or Hull or Mansfield - and they say 343 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,280 that they're worried that if you sound like them, 344 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,200 it's going to hold them back. 345 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,400 Honestly, will it hold them back? 346 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,480 No, I really... Really? I really don't think so. 347 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:26,880 Anyway, my...my wife's Glaswegian accent 348 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,040 is half of what I found so attractive about her. 349 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,120 The other half I won't go into details about. 350 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,480 But anyway, I think... Honestly, it shouldn't matter. 351 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,480 I don't think it does generally matter. 352 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,880 There may be some snooty British companies still left 353 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,200 that...where it might make a difference. I doubt it. 354 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,640 Nice to meet you. Good to see you. 355 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,440 Hi there! Hello! How are you? 356 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,440 Have a great voyage. Thank you for having us. 357 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,440 Yeah. Richard, nice to meet you. Nice to... 358 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,080 This guy's a rock star. 359 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,040 And is it any wonder? He's learnt from the best. 360 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,760 By the early 1970s, Sir Richard was immersed in the music world, 361 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:07,520 first with a mail-order record business and then a Virgin store. 362 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,480 Before long, he had his own label and recording studio - The Manor. 363 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,120 Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells was the first big hit, 364 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,640 selling more than five million copies. 365 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,400 MUSIC: Tubular Bells by Mike Oldfield 366 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,480 In the following years, everyone from the Rolling Stones 367 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,600 to Culture Club to Janet Jackson 368 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,560 were laying down tracks for Virgin Records. 369 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:36,200 Just, if you would, just evoke that era, because people like me 370 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,480 who missed it are rather jealous of not being around. 371 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,720 Just evoke that era for us, would you? What was it like? 372 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,320 Mike Oldfield turns up, and the Sex Pistols walk in, and Phil Collins 373 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:45,920 and Genesis are down the road. 374 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:47,720 Because it must have been exhilarating. 375 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,280 Erm... It was exhilarating. It was... 376 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,880 It was a wonderful era. Bands could come and record all night 377 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,080 and sleep all day, 378 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,280 and that was just tremendously exciting. 379 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,720 It was... It was great to be... to be young and...and alive 380 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:02,840 at that time. 381 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,400 And you came across some icons as they were just setting out. 382 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,040 Just tell me about the time when 383 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,320 Keith Richards taught you how to roll a spliff. 384 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,480 GUITAR RIFF PLAYS 385 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,640 Erm... Well, because I... Because I started off in business 386 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:26,960 so early on in life, I...I just didn't have the time to get, er, 387 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,000 stoned like a lot of my friends. 388 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Erm, but Keith Richards was at The Manor, and, yeah, 389 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,920 he kindly invited me for a spliff. 390 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,120 You definitely don't say no to Keith Richards. 391 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,320 And... And he does it. 392 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,840 I won't be able to explain exactly, 393 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:46,360 but he does it with a beautiful art, in a beautiful way. 394 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,640 Yeah... I'm sorry. 395 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,640 The reason I was pausing was I was thinking of once when he was there, 396 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,000 there was this banging on the front door and this enormous guy was there 397 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,000 wanting to have a word with Keith Richards, 398 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,160 because he thought he was there with his wife. 399 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,960 And, erm, I told him that, you know, he was obviously mistaken, 400 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:05,520 but I was nervous because I knew 401 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,640 that Keith was actually there with somebody. 402 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,640 And then I looked over this guy's shoulder and I could see 403 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,680 a naked Keith Richards and a naked lady running 404 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,480 across the lawn behind him. 405 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,280 So I invited him in and said, 406 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,520 "Look, you're very welcome to search the house. 407 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,120 "I can assure you that Keith and your wife are not in the house." 408 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:23,600 So, erm... 409 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,920 It was at The Manor that Sir Richard met his future wife, Joan, 410 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,280 with whom he would have children Holly and Sam. 411 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,840 Living on a houseboat to save cash, 412 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,200 he was on the hunt for something bigger - much bigger. 413 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:46,200 In 1978, he bought Necker Island in the Caribbean Sea for $180,000. 414 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,920 It would eventually become his home and a holiday resort. 415 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,200 But it's proved controversial, 416 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,360 with some claiming that by making it his place of residence, 417 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,880 Sir Richard has been able to avoid taxes 418 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,120 his critics argue he should pay. 419 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,440 You've lived in the Caribbean on your own island, Necker Island, 420 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,600 for some of the year for many years. 421 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,360 And you've also been open about using legal means - 422 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,000 and they are legal means - to keep your tax bill down 423 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,840 so that your companies remain competitive, and you've contributed 424 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,440 millions in tax over the years to many different jurisdictions. 425 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,560 But still, tax avoidance, which is legal, may not be illegal, 426 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,240 but is it immoral? 427 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,600 Just... Your question I slightly resent. 428 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,760 I will tell you exactly as it is. 429 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,280 I started with 200, erm... 430 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,320 ..£200 from a necklace that my mum found 431 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,120 and we sold. 432 00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,320 I have paid literally billions... 433 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,720 You know, and our companies pay billions 434 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,040 in taxes over the years. 435 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,160 And we've created over the whole time 436 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,120 maybe a million and a half jobs - 437 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:54,240 obviously, a lot of those people have moved on to other jobs - 438 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,200 but a lot of jobs. 439 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,440 The reason I live on Necker was I fell in love with a lovely lady 440 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,720 when I was 28, Joan. And I fell in love with a beautiful island. 441 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,240 And I live on Necker because it's the most beautiful place 442 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,640 in the world to live. 443 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,760 I've worked extremely hard for many years, 444 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:11,880 and I now use Necker as a base. 445 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:17,080 Erm, the personal money that I earn, I give all to charities. 446 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,400 You know, so all I can say is we have paid billions and billions 447 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,720 in taxes over the years and we'll continue to do so. 448 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,680 And our companies pay taxes in whichever country 449 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,880 and whichever jurisdiction they're based. 450 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,640 By the 1980s, the bulk of the Virgin income was still coming 451 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,360 from the burgeoning music business. 452 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,960 It was a time of success and excess. But a shadow was looming. 453 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,280 It's the 1980s. You were a very big figure in British music. 454 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,240 You had this huge record company. 455 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,920 But we can't really talk about the 1980s music scene 456 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,160 without talking about the devastating impact of Aids. 457 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:58,040 And you bought the nightclub Heaven in 1982, and it was there 458 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,200 that a gay man called Terence Higgins collapsed. 459 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,920 And the trust, which campaigns on Aids in his name, 460 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,240 you're a patron of, and you set up Mates condoms to promote safe sex. 461 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,200 Did you ever lose any friends to Aids? 462 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,240 Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of... 463 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,440 Erm, Freddie Mercury was a friend. 464 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,680 I mean, there were a lot of people I knew that died of Aids. 465 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,840 There was a man called Donald, who was a waiter in our game reserve 466 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,520 in South Africa, 467 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,960 and he wrote a very powerful poem 468 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,640 just before he died. 469 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,560 "Aids is not a disease. 470 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,760 "It is a war that is on Africa." 471 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,240 Erm, and, er... 472 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,640 And it was it was a long, powerful poem 473 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,680 appealing to the government to do something about it. 474 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,400 And I remember going to South Africa after his death, and we set up 475 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,120 the Bhubezi Clinic near Ulusaba 476 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,480 so that at least people in that region could get 477 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:53,800 anti-retroviral drugs. 478 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,520 And I remember going through... going down a street in Jo'burg, 479 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,840 and every single shop had been turned into funeral parlours. 480 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,360 There were just, erm, you know, 481 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:05,680 massive adverts for funeral parlours. 482 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,200 And it was then that we decided to set up Mates condoms, 483 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,560 which was a condom company, 484 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,400 to try to rival Durex, 485 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,160 to try to encourage them to advertise, 486 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,160 because they weren't advertising the need for wearing condoms. 487 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,800 And the condom was about the only way of actually stopping 488 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,360 somebody getting Aids. 489 00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:27,360 You've been a great champion of LGBTQ+ rights, and of gay marriage, 490 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:30,160 amongst other causes. Are there times in business 491 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,120 when your kind of personal convictions and campaigns do rub up 492 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,080 against your business interests? 493 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,840 So, for instance, Virgin Galactic is, I think, nearly a third owned 494 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,160 by Abu Dhabi, and that's a country where it's illegal to be gay. 495 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,440 How do you navigate that sort of tension? As much as possible, 496 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,440 one does what's right at the time. 497 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:51,240 And... And I think... I think we've been consistent. 498 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,480 In Uganda we've been campaigning against life in prison 499 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:55,960 if you're found to be gay. 500 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,080 Just taking it head-on in as many countries as possible. 501 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,760 And also trying to get people 502 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,600 to realise that the gay fight is not finished yet. 503 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,680 You know, it's been sort of won in America, 504 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,120 but the money that was going into fighting it there 505 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:13,200 now needs to be put into fighting it overseas. 506 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,200 Sir Richard is used to a fight. 507 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,280 When he launched Virgin Atlantic in 1984, with a single 747 508 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,360 flying to New York, he expected to have to battle for his place 509 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,400 in the skies. 510 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,760 But he had no idea just how dirty the fight 511 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,600 with British Airways would become. 512 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,960 By the early '90s, what became known as BA's "dirty tricks" campaign 513 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,120 led Branson to court. 514 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:42,280 But pursuing justice was an expensive exercise, 515 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,720 one he had to fund by selling Virgin Records 516 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,640 for over half a billion pounds. 517 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,080 You're talked about how companies are just basically 518 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,760 collections of people. It's almost like they're your children. 519 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,920 And you looked after them. 520 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,600 But to have to sell a company that you'd spent so long building, 521 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,880 and which you'd grown with, must have been very, very difficult. 522 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,680 Yeah. Erm, British Airways, erm, basically decided 523 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,280 to get rid of Virgin Atlantic. We were a very small airline, 524 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,320 three or four planes, 525 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,320 but they had got rid of Air Europe, 526 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,320 they had got rid of British Caledonian, 527 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,080 they had got rid of Dan-Air, Sir Freddie Laker. 528 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,680 And that was their approach. 529 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,400 They're going to be the only airline operating out of the UK. 530 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,800 And so they launched what became 531 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,720 infamously known as the "dirty tricks" campaign, 532 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,040 and they went to extraordinary lengths 533 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,960 to try to put us out of business. 534 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,040 They were intercepting our passengers when they got 535 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,800 to the airport, trying to switch them from Virgin to British Airways. 536 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,240 Literally, you know, as they got out of their cars, 537 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,040 going and offering them deals on the pavement. 538 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,480 They had a unit behind locked doors 539 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:54,400 erm, where they had teams of people sworn to secrecy 540 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,840 who were pretending to be working for Virgin 541 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,200 illegally accessing our computer information, 542 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,200 ringing up our, er, passengers, 543 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,040 saying that they were from Virgin, that the flight had been cancelled, 544 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,360 but, "Don't worry, we've managed to switch you onto 545 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:14,720 "a British Airways flight," and so on and so on. 546 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,920 I mean, this was a taste of what they were doing. 547 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,480 They then publicly called me a liar and denied that they were doing 548 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,240 all these things. But we actually had members of their staff 549 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,520 who were horrified by what they were being asked to do. 550 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,800 Whistle-blowers? Whistle-blowers. They came to us. 551 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,600 So we took them to court 552 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,960 and we won the biggest libel damages in history. 553 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,040 Obviously delighted with today's result and hope that it will 554 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,040 bring in a new era of fair competition 555 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,520 in British aviation history in the future. 556 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,880 It was Christmas-time. 557 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,080 We distributed it to all our staff equally at Christmas. 558 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,320 It became known as the British Airways Christmas bonus. 559 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,480 And the combination of winning that court case and then, sadly, 560 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,880 having to sell the record company to give me the financial muscle 561 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,760 to...to, erm, deal with British Airways, 562 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,600 erm, you know, the combination of those two things 563 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,680 meant that Virgin Atlantic became secure. 564 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,960 But the thing that was so fascinating about that battle 565 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,520 with BA was that it pitted you - as you yourself call it, 566 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,280 you're a sort of '60s hippie from Surrey, 567 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,320 but who is big in the world of showbiz - 568 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,640 it pitted you against the ruling class, 569 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,880 because Lord King, the boss of BA, was a pillar of the establishment. 570 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,360 I want to see the future. 571 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,200 REPORTER: How much has this got to do with the "dirty tricks" campaign? 572 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,480 Nothing, madam. 573 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,880 He had a country estate. 574 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,760 He was someone who'd been around for a very, very long time. 575 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,040 And he didn't just set out to destroy you, but to ridicule you. 576 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:42,840 I mean, he said... What was it he said? 577 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,560 That you were too old to rock, too young to fly 578 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,720 and to be a pilot. 579 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,560 You loved fighting him, didn't you? And you love a fight, don't you? 580 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,160 That sort of thing. You relished taking him on through the courts 581 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:54,760 and elsewhere. 582 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,000 We relished winning. 583 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,120 Erm, er, it was not fun. 584 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,640 It was a lonely fight. It wasn't actually, you know, 585 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,920 the David versus Goliath fight at the time. 586 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,520 With Mates condoms, you took on you took on Durex. 587 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,880 With Virgin Atlantic, you took on British Airways. 588 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:10,360 Within the music industry, 589 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,880 you took on these huge pillars of this establishment. 590 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,160 Have you enjoyed being an insurgent? 591 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,440 And what makes insurgents win? 592 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,120 Why do - and how do - Davids beat Goliaths? 593 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:22,960 You know, I think we've... 594 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,600 I think, and you can contradict me if you disagree, 595 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,320 I think we've always been an insurgent, even today. 596 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,480 So, like, our cruise ships, 597 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,600 we've got, you know, three cruise ships 598 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,840 against, you know, Carnival's, you know, couple of hundred. 599 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,280 I think the advantage of being the David versus Goliath 600 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,760 is that you can be much more nimble, you can move much quicker, 601 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,800 you can innovate much, much more quickly. 602 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,120 You can inspire your team much more easily, you know. 603 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,560 So it's a lot more fun, I think, being the David 604 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,360 versus the Goliath. 605 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:02,480 Having said that, a job of a government is to make sure 606 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,240 that if there's anti-competitive behaviour by a big company, 607 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,240 that's the principal job of a government - is to make sure 608 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,480 that there's a level playing field and that the big companies are not 609 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,840 allowed to get away with it. 610 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,360 And I don't think governments are always that good at that. 611 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,200 You've taken on some very powerful figures. 612 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,080 How does somebody know when you dislike them? 613 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,480 Is it just that Richard Branson comes after their business 614 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,160 and really pursues them very aggressively? How does someone know 615 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,880 when Richard Branson's coming after them? We're a fairly open book. 616 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,680 I think they'll know that we're coming! And generally speaking, 617 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,680 I think you'll find that the bigger business 618 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,680 benefits from the smaller competitor coming after them, 619 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,480 because they have to respond. They have to react. 620 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,840 I remember British Airways once sent out a memo saying, 621 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,040 er, whatever Virgin does, erm, 622 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,200 we must...we must copy it, you know, within a month. 623 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,080 And, you know, I respect that. 624 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,560 I mean, that's good business sense, because we were innovating 625 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,120 all the time. I mean, like, you know, seat-back videos - 626 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,000 we were the first to put seat-back videos on our planes. 627 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,280 But it wasn't just innovation that got Sir Richard Branson attention. 628 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,640 Tonight, with Richard Branson back in London 629 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,000 after his record-breaking transatlantic run, 630 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,360 the Virgin publicity bandwagon is under full steam. 631 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,280 From speedboat crossings to record-breaking balloon attempts, 632 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,000 his adventures secured him headlines 633 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,560 and more than a few brushes with death. 634 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,120 Good evening. Richard Branson's transatlantic balloon flight 635 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,680 has ended in high drama tonight. 636 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,320 He and his co-pilot, Per Linstrand, 637 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,120 abandoned the giant Virgin Atlantic Flyer and landed in the sea 638 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,280 off the west coast of Scotland. 639 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,400 Why are you so addicted to danger? 640 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,960 I'm certainly not addicted to danger 641 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,720 and I'm certainly not craving death! 642 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,880 Sir Richard, how can I put this to you? Erm... 643 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,520 I mean, was it at the back of your book you've got 75 - 644 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,080 no, 79 - near-death experiences? 645 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600 I think that's the first thing you've said which I'm going 646 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,560 to actually go so far as to say I disagree with. 647 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,040 And I am going to correct you on that. 648 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,240 Someone who flies hot-air balloons across oceans... 649 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,760 I don't need to tell you, but somebody who does some of the things 650 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,960 that you've done, and that you're famous for, 651 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,080 IS a bit addicted to danger, with all due respect. 652 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,240 So, I will still take issue. 653 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,600 I'm not addicted to death and I'm not addicted to danger. 654 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,200 What I am addicted to is to actually say yes to things. 655 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,720 And I'm addicted to challenging myself and seeing 656 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,440 what I'm capable of. 657 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,920 And if somebody comes along to me and says, 658 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,600 "Nobody's crossed the Atlantic in a hot-air balloon before..." 659 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,720 There aren't many world records left. 660 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,960 And, you know, I've never flown a hot-air balloon before. 661 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,920 You know, what fun it would be to learn to fly a hot-air balloon 662 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,840 and then to see if we could cross the Atlantic in it. 663 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,120 And then you try to work out all the things that can go wrong 664 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,880 and you try to make sure that you can come back 665 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,840 to tell the tale. 666 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,320 But to be honest, I'm just like any other human being. 667 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,400 When things did go wrong - they went wrong a lot of times, I agree - 668 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,720 I was as shit scared as the next person! 669 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,640 I did not want to die. 670 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,480 But my problem is that I can't say no. 671 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,040 I love a challenge. 672 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,120 And your problem is that you inspire a lot of people 673 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,600 and then they end up getting into some dangerous situations. 674 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,560 I just want to play you a moment when your son Sam 675 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,280 had a pretty near-death experience himself. 676 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,200 Word has it that Noah and Sam are quite close to the top now, 677 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,280 so we're hoping to get there in time for their final summit. 678 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,120 It's just over with the steep slopes. 679 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,520 Just stay with me. 680 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,720 Climbing mountains, 681 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,440 you can get altitude sickness. 682 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,880 And Sam got very, very bad altitude sickness climbing the Matterhorn. 683 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,560 We had to helicopter him off, 684 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,400 but I would not... 685 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,520 And he would not recommend that he didn't climb 686 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,120 another mountain subsequently. 687 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,800 I mean, we've climbed Mont Blanc, 688 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,880 you know, a couple of times together. 689 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,760 I've said it before, but my approach to life is that 690 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,160 the brave may not live for ever, 691 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:12,720 but the cautious do not live at all. 692 00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:14,960 And I really... I really believe that. 693 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,600 And I think our family have got enormous satisfaction 694 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:19,480 from pushing ourselves to the limits. 695 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,960 But as a father, when you watch your son Sam being rescued, 696 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,160 doesn't it make you rethink your own behaviour, 697 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,520 realising what you must have put your own family through? 698 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,400 I mean, it must... I mean, I watch that as a dad and I think... 699 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,120 It makes me wince. 700 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,240 So, my poor wife is the one that, 701 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:36,440 you know, has to now watch the three of us 702 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,160 doing these adventures together. 703 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,200 I mean, myself, my son and daughter are off on another adventure. 704 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,160 Later on in the year, we're going to be doing Bhutan... 705 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,000 Now, erm... 706 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,880 ..you know, we raise good money for good causes by doing it. 707 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,160 And we push ourselves to the limits 708 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,080 and we accept that you're not going to live for ever. 709 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,040 But I don't want to die early. 710 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,640 I... I... 711 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,800 But I thoroughly enjoy, as do my kids, 712 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,760 having extreme challenges together. 713 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,320 Today, Branson's adventures might just be for fun, 714 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,720 but for decades they played a vital role 715 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,400 in promoting and growing the Virgin brand - as, too, did women. 716 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,720 His publicity stunts, often involving women partially clothed, 717 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:23,680 were highly effective at getting him media attention. 718 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:25,240 But times have changed. 719 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:27,600 Just recently, you said, "In the early days of Virgin, 720 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,840 "society was very different. 721 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,760 "I doubt you'll see me turning girls upside down 722 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,400 "or picking up ladies today. 723 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,280 "Whereas, 38 years ago, if I didn't do that, 724 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:35,720 "I wouldn't get in a newspaper." 725 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:37,920 When you look back at some of those campaigns - 726 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,400 it's very dangerous to judge 727 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,680 historic periods through modern mores - 728 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,720 but when you look back at some of those campaigns, 729 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:45,920 does some of that stuff make you wince? 730 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,200 Or would you just think it was fit for the time? 731 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,640 I think it would... It would make me wince 732 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:56,080 if I felt the women would be... were uncomfortable at all. 733 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,560 I don't think that I ever made anybody feel uncomfortable. 734 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,320 It was... It was just, in those days... 735 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,680 In those days, it made them smile. 736 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,720 You know, like Kate Moss, for instance, 737 00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:08,800 she laughed. She knew what was coming. 738 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,160 But, today, obviously, you know, I would...you would... 739 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,280 ..I think people would feel uncomfortable 740 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:15,640 with something like that. 741 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,600 So it's changed and...and I fully accept that. 742 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:25,440 And... And, erm, I've changed alongside everybody else. 743 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,320 It's interesting you say that. 744 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,240 And it's interesting you wrote that recently, 745 00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,320 because you were such a powerful figure in such a glamorous industry. 746 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560 And in recent years, a lot of men have re-examined their behaviour 747 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,920 toward women and wondered if they went too far. 748 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,560 Have you? Have you thought about that? 749 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,920 No, I don't... 750 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,000 Look, I don't think I've ever done anything with... 751 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,080 Anyway, I slightly resent the question, to be honest. 752 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,080 Do you mind...? 753 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,400 Cos...I've never, ever done anything 754 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,960 that would make any woman feel uncomfortable. 755 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,400 It wasn't marketing campaigns. 756 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,800 You know, this was... 757 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,960 Erm... 758 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,760 I... Yeah, I mean, it was... 759 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,200 It was just having a fun, you know, a fun photo...photo opportunity 760 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,720 for newspapers who lapped it up. 761 00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:14,120 And that was... We didn't have the internet. 762 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,640 That was the way we got ourselves... you know, got Virgin Atlantic known. 763 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,200 In my research for this interview, 764 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,400 I've spoken to a lot of people who you've worked with, 765 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,000 including some who were with you at the very beginning of Virgin. 766 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,520 And one of the things they all said... 767 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,520 I should say, in the spirit of transparency, 768 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,080 they were very warm about you, they were all very kind about you. 769 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:31,960 But one of the things a lot of them said was, 770 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,080 "The thing about Richard is he's very easily bored." 771 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,720 They said, you know, "He's got this tendency to be a bit twitchy. 772 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:38,160 "He likes moving around." 773 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,840 And there's a fascinating line in your book where you say, 774 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,520 "I work best when my mind is able to jump from one topic to the next 775 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,360 "in quick succession." 776 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,080 So I look this up on the British Dyslexia Association 777 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,280 and they say that a lot of people who have dyslexia also have ADHD, 778 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,880 attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. 779 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,720 I asked my wife whether I had ADHD, 780 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:04,880 and she said, "Only when you're... "Only when you're talking to me. 781 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,400 "But... But... But..." THEY LAUGH 782 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,920 "But, Richard, you...you have... 783 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,960 "You have a syndrome 784 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,440 "that hasn't been invented yet." Branson Syndrome. 785 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,000 And... Quick as a flash. 786 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,520 But, yeah, I think it's quite likely I have ADHD as well. 787 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,360 And does that mean a superpower as well? 788 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,480 I love to learn. I love to learn. 789 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,120 If I feel I've learnt all there is about something, 790 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,840 I want to move on and learn about something else. 791 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,200 And as a result, I suppose I've created, 792 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,840 I suspect, if I really went back into it, 793 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,640 maybe 500 different companies in my lifetime 794 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,400 in, I don't know, 300 different sectors. 795 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,040 But I've learnt... You know, 796 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,080 it's just been one long, fascinating education, 797 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,360 an education that I never had at school, and I wouldn't change it. 798 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:54,640 It wouldn't change it at all. 799 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,240 I mean, one of my books is called Screw It, Let's Do It. 800 00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,440 And, you know... 801 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,840 You know, if you take that philosophy 802 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,040 and you just screw it and do it, you're going to learn... 803 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,880 You're going to learn a lot. 804 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,360 You might fall flat on your face, but sometimes it'll work out. 805 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,120 And what advice would you give to a billionaire in his 70s 806 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,320 who's having trouble slowing down? 807 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,400 My own feeling is that I've... 808 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,680 I'm in an extraordinary position 809 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,000 and not to waste the position I find myself in. 810 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,280 There are a lot of issues this world needs dealing with. 811 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,920 You've got politicians who can do so much, 812 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,760 but then they may be only two years maximum 813 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,920 in a particular department before they're moved on 814 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,320 to something else. 815 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:43,080 I've had 55 years of experience as an entrepreneur and businessman 816 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,680 and travelled the world, 817 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,880 and I think I'm in a position to help politicians 818 00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,680 and try to address some of the bigger issues of the world. 819 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:53,040 And that's what I enjoy doing. 820 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,280 And I'm not... I'm not going to sit back 821 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,560 and not make the best of that position. 822 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,360 Which is why, today, 823 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,000 much of Sir Richard's time is not spent on business, 824 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,680 but crusading for causes, from drug policy 825 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,520 to opposing the death penalty. 826 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,200 And he's also outspoken on other issues close to home. 827 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,040 Reading your book, I was very struck by how outspoken you were 828 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,320 about Britain's economic prospects. 829 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:21,160 And for almost 50 years, you've kind of personified 830 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,080 some of Britain's economic prospects. 831 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,960 You know, the 1970s and '80s, you were someone who was seen 832 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,920 as the go-to guy to fix economic malaise. 833 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,200 If you look at the evidence and the data now, 834 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,560 Britain's had a pretty tough 15 years - 835 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,880 low growth, low productivity. 836 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,400 And you write that Britain is a country teetering on the edge. 837 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,640 How bad is it? 838 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,840 Obviously, if you suddenly reduce your market size 839 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,120 from the whole of Europe, the biggest market in the world, 840 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,400 to just Britain, it's going to have a negative effect. 841 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,800 So, you know, what... 842 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,560 What we as businesspeople, and I think I almost talk with one voice 843 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,000 with, you know, with all entrepreneurs, all businesspeople... 844 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,960 We would like governments to have a sensible discussion 845 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,640 with the European Union and explore. 846 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,680 Maybe... Maybe we could try the Norwegian model. 847 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,000 Maybe we could try a bit of the Swiss model. 848 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,520 Maybe we can have our own unique British model 849 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,600 to make sure that we... that British business 850 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,160 is not adversely affected. 851 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,760 Come up with a new relationship with a single market, basically. 852 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:29,840 Exactly. 853 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,000 The Brexiteers can still keep their, you know, their main demands, 854 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,560 but having a trading relationship, 855 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,320 it must be good for employment in Britain and good for business. 856 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,720 I've heard that you're quite competitive. 857 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:44,800 Is that vaguely true? 858 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:48,400 Let's see... Yeah, it's definitely true. 859 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,120 Are you...? You're quite into chess, aren't you? 860 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,360 I enjoy a game of chess, but that sounds ominous when somebody... 861 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,120 Is it true that you let your grandchildren beat you at chess? 862 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,600 Yeah. I mean, I let my grandchildren beat me until they were six. 863 00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,200 Well, before we have a game... 864 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,480 If you're up for a game of chess, I'd be very up for it. 865 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,880 And you don't have to let me win! Let me ask you one final thing. 866 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,160 For 50 years... I think it was after... 867 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,800 It was Freddie Laker's advice, your mentor, Freddie Laker, 868 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,520 who said, "Richard, you've got to put yourself front and forward. 869 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,080 "Yes, you're shy, but you've got to make yourself a brand 870 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,840 "and people have got to get to know you." 871 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,840 You've been so synonymous with Virgin for so long, 872 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,960 probably more than any entrepreneur with any company in the world. 873 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,280 Where is - and what is - Virgin after Sir Richard? 874 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,320 You must think about succession planning. 875 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,000 Yeah, I do. And... 876 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:40,080 And we have serious discussions as a family about 877 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:45,400 how...how the company can transform, 878 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,880 hopefully, thousands of people's lives 879 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,800 in the years to come and hopefully in the centuries to come. 880 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,360 How good are you at chess, seriously? 881 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,480 Because I'm a bit worried that we've set this thing up 882 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,120 and you're going to smash me to pieces. 883 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,520 I don't read... I don't read any moves. No, no, no. 884 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,440 You can be white if you like. You can be white. 885 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,600 Erm, now... 886 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,280 ..where are we? 887 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,200 I'm going to distract you with some quickfire questions. 888 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,000 Who's your greatest hero, living or dead? 889 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,160 Erm, Mand... A cross between Mandela and Archbishop Tutu. 890 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:18,880 But we'll say Mandela. 891 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,000 Favourite film. 892 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,840 It has to be The Godfather. 893 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,080 Which one? Part I, II or III? Part I. 894 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:26,680 When did you last cry? 895 00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,800 Erm... 896 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,280 I think the last time I maybe cried 897 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,680 was, you know, writing a letter. 898 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,680 To your family? To my family. Yeah. 899 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,160 What do you fear most? 900 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,040 Erm... I think a family member being unwell. 901 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:52,120 It's not checkmate yet. 902 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,120 Oh, maybe it is. 903 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,680 Oh! RICHARD LAUGHS 904 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,600 Thank you. That's really terrible. 905 00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:07,120 Oh, no. Well played. Yeah. 906 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:08,840 Oh, dear. Beaten. 907 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,320 We'll have to have a rematch. 908 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,320 I would look forward to that. 909 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,640 Oh, dear. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. 910 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:16,280 Has it been a pleasure? 911 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,240 Mostly! THEY LAUGH 912 00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:21,520 Sign of a good interview, that. Thank you very much indeed. No. OK. 913 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,800 We should set these up. Oh, man.