1
00:00:20,620 --> 00:00:23,180
WOMAN:
- Sometimes, I used to have a shower
at night

2
00:00:23,180 --> 00:00:25,420
and get dressed for the next day...

3
00:00:27,460 --> 00:00:29,940
..including my head covering, because
I knew I was going to be

4
00:00:29,940 --> 00:00:31,940
up in a few hours, anyway.

5
00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:40,980
I can't remember sleeping more than
four hours a night, ever.

6
00:00:43,420 --> 00:00:45,540
I didn't know it was a thing.

7
00:00:49,660 --> 00:00:51,100
Off to work again.

8
00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:02,940
We'd use newspaper to start the fire.

9
00:01:05,380 --> 00:01:08,860
It was our only insight into the
outside world.

10
00:01:10,620 --> 00:01:12,940
If something caught my eye, I'd just
rip it out.

11
00:01:15,220 --> 00:01:18,340
Once they figured out that the girls
were doing that, they put somebody

12
00:01:18,340 --> 00:01:22,580
on checking the newspaper, and they'd
literally cut out anything

13
00:01:22,580 --> 00:01:25,580
that they didn't want us to see.

14
00:01:25,580 --> 00:01:27,420
It's just all about control.

15
00:01:38,300 --> 00:01:42,300
- # When you come, I'll follow you

16
00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:45,140
# We'll make it through

17
00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:50,740
# When you come, I'll follow you

18
00:01:50,740 --> 00:01:53,900
# I'll follow you. #

19
00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:19,660
- So, this is the end of the road,

20
00:02:19,660 --> 00:02:23,260
when it comes to leaving Gloriavale,

21
00:02:23,260 --> 00:02:25,700
it's like leaving the property...

22
00:02:26,820 --> 00:02:30,980
..that psychological thing - if you've
left, you've left the church.

23
00:02:32,380 --> 00:02:37,100
Cross this bridge and you've lost your
soul, you're going to hell.

24
00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:41,900
And that's the psychological prison

25
00:02:41,900 --> 00:02:45,260
that is way more powerful

26
00:02:45,260 --> 00:02:47,180
than a locked gate.

27
00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:57,980
My dad was the founder of
Gloriavale...

28
00:03:02,060 --> 00:03:04,660
..so I have a duty

29
00:03:04,660 --> 00:03:06,260
to do something about it.

30
00:03:06,260 --> 00:03:08,180
It's just trying to help people

31
00:03:08,180 --> 00:03:10,460
see through and break free.

32
00:03:43,660 --> 00:03:46,580
See the buildings over there? It's
quite dark at the moment,

33
00:03:46,580 --> 00:03:51,420
lots of lights turned off. That's the
main compound complex.

34
00:03:53,580 --> 00:03:57,060
I'm just going to do a drive around
and out.

35
00:04:01,580 --> 00:04:04,780
If we see another vehicle approaching,
or someone else,

36
00:04:04,780 --> 00:04:07,020
just let the camera down.

37
00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:13,100
I'm going to stop outside my
family's...where they live,

38
00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:15,060
just for a little bit.

39
00:04:26,180 --> 00:04:30,860
This is my family's bedroom right
there, right up in there,

40
00:04:30,860 --> 00:04:35,340
those two windows there. There's two
rooms joined together.

41
00:04:41,780 --> 00:04:46,860
I have 11 children. It's my eldest
boy's birthday today.

42
00:04:46,860 --> 00:04:49,460
He'll be 29 today.

43
00:04:49,460 --> 00:04:52,060
The youngest is...seven.

44
00:04:54,420 --> 00:04:59,340
She was born after I left. It's the
only one of my children's births

45
00:04:59,340 --> 00:05:01,580
I wasn't able to be present at.

46
00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:05,420
I cried a lot the first year.

47
00:05:08,940 --> 00:05:13,420
Thinking is not encouraged in
Gloriavale.

48
00:05:13,420 --> 00:05:16,260
The leaders tell you how you should
think.

49
00:05:18,260 --> 00:05:23,340
So what we're doing is I'm dropping
leaflets about the dangers of cults,

50
00:05:23,340 --> 00:05:26,940
you know, where people don't challenge
one another's thinking.

51
00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:33,340
I'm going to put some up in the tool
shed here, because one of my boys

52
00:05:33,340 --> 00:05:37,220
works there. It's a bit closer to my
heart, so that's one place

53
00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:39,180
that I always stick stuff.

54
00:05:46,260 --> 00:05:48,460
There you go. Flick the light switch a
bit.

55
00:05:52,580 --> 00:05:54,700
I'm just looking for a name on
overalls.

56
00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:57,460
It's sometimes helpful to know whose
locker it is.

57
00:05:58,620 --> 00:06:01,140
They put me out, in the end, as a
heretic.

58
00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:06,100
My wife said to me, "I'm not going to
lose my soul."

59
00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:08,220
I knew exactly what she meant. She
meant,

60
00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:11,620
"I'm not leaving. "I'm not going with
you."

61
00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:17,460
In a society where women are taught
from a very young age

62
00:06:17,460 --> 00:06:22,100
that they have no voice and have got
to submit, and that's their lot,

63
00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:25,700
she was like a puppet with strings
attached.

64
00:06:28,180 --> 00:06:34,900
My love for her was being used as a
weapon against me,

65
00:06:34,900 --> 00:06:37,100
being used to destroy me.

66
00:06:42,180 --> 00:06:46,860
The leaders have painted me as a very
evil, wicked person,

67
00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:49,340
you know, full of the devil,

68
00:06:49,340 --> 00:06:51,740
but doing nothing is not the answer.

69
00:06:51,740 --> 00:06:53,540
If no-one does anything,

70
00:06:53,540 --> 00:06:55,860
these people aren't ever going to get
free.

71
00:06:58,140 --> 00:07:01,700
MUSIC: Amazing Grace by Lindsay Wright

72
00:07:01,700 --> 00:07:06,700
- # Amazing grace

73
00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:12,180
# How sweet the sound

74
00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:17,580
# That saved a wretch

75
00:07:17,580 --> 00:07:20,260
# Like me... #

76
00:07:20,260 --> 00:07:24,660
- My dad started the community and,
like a king would,

77
00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:29,620
wanted a kingdom. And he wanted lots
of people in his kingdom,

78
00:07:29,620 --> 00:07:32,420
and he decided he was going to farm
all these people

79
00:07:32,420 --> 00:07:35,100
that would worship him and love him.

80
00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:39,940
- This picture has something very
special about it. Well,

81
00:07:39,940 --> 00:07:42,260
if we lived like the rest of society,

82
00:07:42,260 --> 00:07:45,100
we would have two children per family.

83
00:07:46,060 --> 00:07:48,980
They would never have been born

84
00:07:48,980 --> 00:07:52,060
or been given life, so that THEY could
have children,

85
00:07:52,060 --> 00:07:54,780
if we lived like the rest of society.

86
00:07:54,780 --> 00:07:59,540
- # 'Twas grace that taught... #

87
00:07:59,540 --> 00:08:02,620
- And you wonder why we're different.

88
00:08:02,620 --> 00:08:05,540
- # ..to fear

89
00:08:05,540 --> 00:08:07,580
# And grace... #

90
00:08:07,580 --> 00:08:11,180
- We have the biggest families in the
world. In other words,

91
00:08:11,180 --> 00:08:12,820
we've got the biggest population

92
00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:15,700
of children per head of adults.

93
00:08:17,860 --> 00:08:21,020
We're also the fastest-growing
population in the world.

94
00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:29,500
OK, one, two, three! Everybody
smiling!

95
00:08:31,460 --> 00:08:34,420
Put me amongst young people that'll
keep me alive.

96
00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:44,180
How women love to be women! And we've
got the most wonderful

97
00:08:44,180 --> 00:08:47,620
women in the world. They're so loving
and kind.

98
00:08:50,380 --> 00:08:54,700
Soft, gentle women. They are.

99
00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:02,500
- The women are there to serve the
men, work,

100
00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:04,060
have babies.

101
00:09:05,500 --> 00:09:08,100
The women should be in subjection to
the men,

102
00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:11,380
and wearing head covering proves that.

103
00:09:12,380 --> 00:09:17,260
You have to have no skin showing,
other than your hands and your face.

104
00:09:17,260 --> 00:09:19,740
You're not to talk to the opposite
sex.

105
00:09:19,740 --> 00:09:23,100
We shouldn't ever be alone with one of
them.

106
00:09:23,100 --> 00:09:25,900
Hopeful talked all the time about,
"You're showing off your ankles

107
00:09:25,900 --> 00:09:30,100
"and you're tempting the men," and
"Men get turned on by elbows."

108
00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:32,580
Everything's become sexualised.

109
00:09:34,180 --> 00:09:39,700
And it's a culture that has bred
abusive behaviours.

110
00:09:40,740 --> 00:09:44,100
Because we were born there, we knew
nothing else.

111
00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:49,340
- ALL:
- # Oh, Sweet Jesus, we'll sing and
pray... #

112
00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:05,020
- Follow the Evans River up

113
00:10:05,020 --> 00:10:10,220
and through that gap, that's where
Gloriavale is. Yeah, so if you hike

114
00:10:10,220 --> 00:10:12,940
through the bush maybe two-and-a-half
hours,

115
00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:15,340
from here, around the road, 20
minutes.

116
00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:20,700
What a beautiful part of the country,

117
00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:24,540
and yet, they've destroyed people just
through that gap.

118
00:10:28,340 --> 00:10:31,740
The very first time I drove up there,

119
00:10:31,740 --> 00:10:34,020
it was like driving into

120
00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:37,500
a wall of fear, of oppression.

121
00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:41,260
You felt it, a very spiritual...

122
00:10:43,020 --> 00:10:44,700
..heaviness.

123
00:10:48,340 --> 00:10:50,580
I've never felt anything like it.

124
00:10:58,260 --> 00:11:01,340
Look at the personality on that one.
The face on it!

125
00:11:05,140 --> 00:11:07,700
I don't think I ever started to think

126
00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:10,300
I needed to help someone leave.

127
00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:12,140
I just wanted to work with the ones

128
00:11:12,140 --> 00:11:15,900
that were asking for help. And if
they'd come knocking on my door...

129
00:11:17,420 --> 00:11:18,900
..I need to help them.

130
00:11:20,100 --> 00:11:21,660
I started to understand

131
00:11:21,660 --> 00:11:25,340
they were living in a very controlling
environment.

132
00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:29,940
You could almost compare it to a
communist regime.

133
00:11:29,940 --> 00:11:31,900
You couldn't trust anybody.

134
00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:36,140
Any questioning of the leaders

135
00:11:36,140 --> 00:11:38,260
was very, very dangerous.

136
00:11:40,060 --> 00:11:43,420
So if you're going to leave, you need
this group of people,

137
00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:45,980
an underground network, to catch you

138
00:11:45,980 --> 00:11:47,620
and then patch up any wounds

139
00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:49,820
you've got trying to escape.

140
00:11:55,780 --> 00:11:59,460
- I actually have a really sick
feeling inside.

141
00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:03,860
- Are we actually going to...talk to
him now?
- Yeah.

142
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,140
So, we're going to try and visit
someone in Gloriavale

143
00:12:10,140 --> 00:12:12,940
who lives there that's made contact
with me.

144
00:12:14,780 --> 00:12:19,340
We have a network of people who will
support people

145
00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:23,380
in the process of moving out of
Gloriavale.

146
00:12:26,700 --> 00:12:30,260
Generally, we don't give out names of
people who are on

147
00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:35,220
that sort of list, because it's too
sensitive an issue.

148
00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:39,980
So the general rule for anyone
attempting to leave Gloriavale

149
00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:43,540
is you're not allowed to talk about
their names.

150
00:12:43,540 --> 00:12:47,940
It's just a much safer thing to just
sort of keep it low-key.

151
00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:52,820
It's a pretty brave thing when someone
actually will reach out,

152
00:12:52,820 --> 00:12:57,900
and that sort of means someone's
relatively desperate, in a way.

153
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:04,180
I'm strictly off limits for anyone in
Gloriavale to have

154
00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:06,980
any sort of communication relationship
with.

155
00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:18,300
Right, I think he said he'd be round
the side, so we'll have a look.

156
00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:24,780
Oh, that might be him there.

157
00:13:24,780 --> 00:13:27,820
I'm just going to pull up over here...

158
00:13:28,780 --> 00:13:31,300
..just around behind the shed.

159
00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,820
Gloriavale has been using fear

160
00:13:35,820 --> 00:13:39,220
as the foundation for its religion.

161
00:13:39,220 --> 00:13:42,700
Fear's a fundamental human, animal
instinct,

162
00:13:42,700 --> 00:13:46,780
and you can manipulate that in people
pretty well.

163
00:13:52,180 --> 00:13:55,020
- Get in, bro. So, I've got a package
here.

164
00:13:55,020 --> 00:13:57,300
- Oh, thanks, man.
- It's got a phone.

165
00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:00,020
Stay safe, and I'll talk to you later.

166
00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:06,980
- In Gloriavale, sometimes, you have
to just

167
00:14:06,980 --> 00:14:10,100
jump off the edge of a cliff, so to
speak,

168
00:14:10,100 --> 00:14:13,900
if you're going to try and escape out
of that prison.

169
00:14:38,380 --> 00:14:40,100
WHISPERING

170
00:14:41,860 --> 00:14:44,340
- Dear heavenly Father, you hear our
conversations.

171
00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:47,460
You are our God, our Father, our
leader.

172
00:14:48,540 --> 00:14:52,420
Boaz is trying to stand up for what is
right,

173
00:14:52,420 --> 00:14:54,740
stand up for his family.

174
00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:59,140
Lord, I pray that you will give him
wisdom.

175
00:15:00,260 --> 00:15:04,300
Father, I just ask for this in Jesus'
name. Amen.

176
00:15:07,140 --> 00:15:11,380
- If they found out that I was talking
to anybody with a camera...

177
00:15:14,260 --> 00:15:18,780
..that would almost be the epitome of
evil.

178
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:26,980
- THEY LAUGH
Whoa!

179
00:15:31,260 --> 00:15:35,860
- My name is Boaz Benjamin, and I'm 25
years old,

180
00:15:35,860 --> 00:15:41,780
married with three kids, and my wife
is pregnant with the fourth,

181
00:15:41,780 --> 00:15:47,380
and we are concerned for our
children's safety.

182
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:52,620
And so I cannot sit back and just go
on with my head in the sand and say,

183
00:15:52,620 --> 00:15:54,100
"Someone else will fix it."

184
00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:57,660
- Hey, Boaz!

185
00:15:57,660 --> 00:16:04,220
- I had sexually abusive things happen
to me in times past.

186
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:10,060
To protect my children from that sort
of thing happening to them,

187
00:16:10,060 --> 00:16:14,060
the best and safest way to protect
them would be to leave.

188
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:19,620
But it goes way deeper than just "get
up and leave",

189
00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:22,900
because I was born and raised there,

190
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:26,260
my wife was born and raised there.

191
00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:30,580
You are taught every day, from the
moment you can understand English,

192
00:16:30,580 --> 00:16:32,980
that this is the place where you've
got to be,

193
00:16:32,980 --> 00:16:35,940
this is the place where God wants you.
If you leave,

194
00:16:35,940 --> 00:16:38,460
you're going against God's will. So if
you're going against God's will,

195
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:41,540
then you are sinning. If you sin, you
go to hell.

196
00:16:41,540 --> 00:16:45,140
That is just pounded and pounded and
pounded

197
00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:48,860
for years and years and years, just
ongoing,

198
00:16:48,860 --> 00:16:52,180
and it's like it just builds something
in your mind

199
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:55,980
that, "Here is something I cannot
cross.

200
00:16:55,980 --> 00:17:00,260
"I cannot cross that. Like, I just
can't.

201
00:17:00,260 --> 00:17:03,620
"There is no way to cross that line."

202
00:17:03,620 --> 00:17:06,700
It's a psychological barrier.

203
00:17:06,700 --> 00:17:09,180
You can't walk out that gate

204
00:17:09,180 --> 00:17:12,300
and feel that you can still be a
Christian.

205
00:17:16,380 --> 00:17:21,100
- Boaz, the first time I met him, he
sent me a message saying

206
00:17:21,100 --> 00:17:23,620
that he wanted to come and see me, but
not at the house.

207
00:17:23,620 --> 00:17:26,940
So he snuck up to the back of my farm,
so that there'd be

208
00:17:26,940 --> 00:17:29,460
no chance of him being seen.

209
00:17:29,460 --> 00:17:31,860
I don't know how, but they knew.

210
00:17:31,860 --> 00:17:36,660
The next morning, he was called into a
meeting and they destroyed him.

211
00:17:40,780 --> 00:17:44,380
- You just walk into that room
and...boom!

212
00:17:44,380 --> 00:17:47,420
- Do you want to see
- ANGRY SHOUTING

213
00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:50,260
your family ever again?!

214
00:17:51,580 --> 00:17:53,540
- They just changed into pack mode...

215
00:17:53,540 --> 00:17:56,540
- Do you love your wife and do you
love life?

216
00:17:56,540 --> 00:18:00,220
- ..and they're going to attack you
and rip you in half.

217
00:18:00,220 --> 00:18:03,060
- Sit down!

218
00:18:03,060 --> 00:18:05,180
Who are they?!
- All they want to hear is,

219
00:18:05,180 --> 00:18:07,380
"I'm sorry, I will do what you say."

220
00:18:07,380 --> 00:18:10,820
- Say, "Yes, sir!"

221
00:18:10,820 --> 00:18:13,780
- That's what you have to do, in a
way, to survive.

222
00:18:13,780 --> 00:18:17,300
- Whatever Jesus says to do, we're
going to do it.

223
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,300
No questioning!

224
00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:23,540
- I was told to inform on people,

225
00:18:23,540 --> 00:18:25,460
and if I did that, I could stay.

226
00:18:27,780 --> 00:18:31,500
If anybody spoke against them

227
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:35,300
or talked to people outside of the
community,

228
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,460
I would come to them and tell them,

229
00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:39,780
and then they would know that I was
loyal.

230
00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:43,340
If I want to stay here with my wife
and kids, it's like I have to do it.

231
00:18:43,340 --> 00:18:45,620
- SHOUTING

232
00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:48,500
He said, "They broke me, to the extent
that

233
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:51,020
"I do not remember the next 12
months."

234
00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:56,020
I didn't see him for...

235
00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:00,300
..18 months after that.

236
00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:04,140
And he vowed and declared that he
would love to leave,

237
00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:06,740
but he wasn't going to leave until his
wife was ready

238
00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:10,460
to leave with him. She fears the
outside world.

239
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:18,020
- Because the leaders there hold this
control over the women,

240
00:19:18,020 --> 00:19:20,420
if you control the wife, you control
the husband.

241
00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:22,500
If you control both of them, then
you've got the whole family.

242
00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:30,060
- So you're working through, "How do I
make a stand for myself?"

243
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:36,580
And confident enough that Tabitha's
going to follow you?
- Yeah.

244
00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:38,460
- Are you ready to go?

245
00:19:40,380 --> 00:19:43,700
- If she said, "I'm happy just to go
with you,"

246
00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,540
I'd be packing up and walking out
tomorrow.

247
00:19:51,380 --> 00:19:53,100
- RINGING TONE

248
00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:00,180
- Hello, Liz speaking.
- Yeah, g'day, Liz. It's Marcus.

249
00:20:00,180 --> 00:20:06,300
- Hey, g'day, Marcus. How's things?
- Not too bad. Hey, Boaz.

250
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,900
- Yes.
- Have you still got that house for
them if they need it?

251
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:12,980
- Er, yes. There are two that have
popped up that are available,

252
00:20:12,980 --> 00:20:15,820
one that Pilgrim's looking at and
another one that

253
00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:18,980
he has said definitely...
- OK, so it's still available.

254
00:20:18,980 --> 00:20:22,220
- It is. I'll text you the name of the
contact

255
00:20:22,220 --> 00:20:25,300
to make it nice and easy. They're
familiar with it,

256
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:27,020
so I'll text you two names.

257
00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:29,780
- A GV van just drove past me.

258
00:20:29,780 --> 00:20:31,820
- HE CHUCKLES
- Oh, wow, OK!

259
00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:33,620
- Did you duck? Dive into a bush?

260
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:38,420
- OK. If you can send me that contact
for Boaz...
- Yes.

261
00:20:38,420 --> 00:20:41,300
All right, nice to chat.
- OK.
- See you. Bye-bye.

262
00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:48,620
Cool. Now, the next one I got to take
is inside Gloriavale.

263
00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,260
- RINGING TONE

264
00:20:58,060 --> 00:21:01,380
- Well, I prefer to call myself the
devil! Well, that's the joke.

265
00:21:01,380 --> 00:21:04,620
We sort of get called, you know, the
devil and...

266
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:10,500
Look, I'm energetic. And, yeah, for
some reason, this has gripped me.

267
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:14,580
I feel like this is what I've been
called to do.

268
00:21:17,780 --> 00:21:20,580
The Gloriavale Leavers' Support Trust
aims to help those

269
00:21:20,580 --> 00:21:24,700
who have left Gloriavale and those
contemplating leaving.

270
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,820
- Oh, no, that's bullshit. They go up
to...

271
00:21:26,820 --> 00:21:30,940
- We've had connection and contact
with at least 250 leavers

272
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:33,020
over the past ten years.

273
00:21:33,020 --> 00:21:35,940
You know, their community hasn't been
set up for the families

274
00:21:35,940 --> 00:21:38,100
to look after and school their
children.

275
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:39,940
They're tired. They're exhausted.

276
00:21:39,940 --> 00:21:42,820
I'd say they would have been up really
late.
- It was only...

277
00:21:42,820 --> 00:21:46,260
- And we have heard an awful lot.

278
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,820
The physical abuse, the psychological,
sexual,

279
00:21:51,820 --> 00:21:55,900
mental, the emotional, the spiritual
abuse and the neglect.

280
00:21:58,340 --> 00:22:00,980
And that leads to the driving force

281
00:22:00,980 --> 00:22:02,860
of the work we're doing.

282
00:22:05,780 --> 00:22:09,340
We are not going to go away

283
00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:12,460
and pretend like this is all OK.

284
00:22:12,460 --> 00:22:16,100
We actually see this as an
embarrassment,

285
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:18,740
a blight on the government in New
Zealand.

286
00:22:18,740 --> 00:22:21,220
Hey, Marcus. How you doing?

287
00:22:21,220 --> 00:22:22,660
Hey, look, we're just...

288
00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:25,620
Really, a legal solution is probably

289
00:22:25,620 --> 00:22:28,380
the only way through this.

290
00:22:28,380 --> 00:22:32,140
This is the opportunity in history to
get it right,

291
00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:35,460
to get done what should have been done
45 years ago.

292
00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:39,660
It shouldn't have been allowed to
develop this far.

293
00:22:39,660 --> 00:22:43,380
- REPORTER: A large number of the
Gloriavale community will be in

294
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:45,660
the public gallery in Greymouth this
week.

295
00:22:45,660 --> 00:22:48,740
Six former Gloriavale women have taken
action,

296
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:53,220
claiming to be employees in the
Christian community, not volunteers.

297
00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:55,700
- Six former Gloriavale members are
claiming

298
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,060
they lived like slaves at the West
Coast commune,

299
00:22:58,060 --> 00:23:00,260
working under a regime where they had
no control.

300
00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:03,540
- If they refused to work, there was
corporal punishment,

301
00:23:03,540 --> 00:23:08,020
food was withheld, and they were
threatened with eternal damnation.

302
00:23:09,380 --> 00:23:11,820
- The main point is accountability.

303
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:15,100
The leaders have got away with
treating people badly

304
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:17,740
for a long time, and it's time that

305
00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:20,260
things change and they do things like

306
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:22,580
the rest of New Zealand has to, that
the people in Gloriavale

307
00:23:22,580 --> 00:23:26,380
have the same rights as every New
Zealander.

308
00:23:26,380 --> 00:23:29,300
All right, let's go.
- Let's go.

309
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,860
- Unfortunately, now, court's the only
way to sort it out

310
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:35,140
and, really, they've done it to
themselves.

311
00:24:02,780 --> 00:24:06,180
- Please state your name for the
record.
- Struge Stedfast.

312
00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:08,060
- My name is Blessing Hopeful.

313
00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:10,420
- My name is Rapture Standtrue.

314
00:24:10,420 --> 00:24:12,100
- My name is Lovely Stedfast.

315
00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:15,860
I am a member of the Gloriavale
Christian community.

316
00:24:15,860 --> 00:24:18,820
I was five years old when I gave my
heart to the Lord.

317
00:24:18,820 --> 00:24:23,020
I then chose to live a life...that was
to deny myself

318
00:24:23,020 --> 00:24:25,340
and give my life for God in this
church.

319
00:24:25,340 --> 00:24:29,820
- Downtrodden. Subdued. Repressed.

320
00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:33,740
Powerless. Oppressed. Brainwashed.

321
00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:37,820
These words are not at all what I get
treated like

322
00:24:37,820 --> 00:24:42,540
and ever have felt as a woman living
in Gloriavale.

323
00:24:42,540 --> 00:24:47,500
- The Bible teaches for godly women to
have meek and quiet spirits

324
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:49,620
and to be submitted to their husbands.

325
00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:54,260
- All we want is to serve God to the
best of our ability

326
00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:56,420
and in peace.

327
00:24:56,420 --> 00:25:00,260
- So could you tell Your Honour at
what age you came

328
00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:02,540
and how you came to being at the
community?

329
00:25:02,540 --> 00:25:07,100
- Mm. Um, well, I had been travelling
round. I was 24.

330
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:09,820
I'd moved from Australia to New
Zealand.

331
00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:14,740
I'd been looking for work.

332
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:18,140
I was stuck in Christchurch with
nothing, and then

333
00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:20,420
two of the girls from the community
walked up to me

334
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:22,300
and started telling me about

335
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:24,940
their community and about salvation.

336
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,020
- My dad was from Switzerland.

337
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:32,580
He was travelling the world as a young
person with

338
00:25:32,580 --> 00:25:36,140
a couple of his mates, and he had
landed

339
00:25:36,140 --> 00:25:39,580
in Christchurch with no plans, knew
nobody,

340
00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:41,460
couldn't speak English very well,

341
00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:46,380
and a minister picked him up and he
introduced Dad to the community.

342
00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:51,140
- You don't join a cult.

343
00:25:51,140 --> 00:25:52,500
You get recruited.

344
00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:57,300
They were actively recruiting

345
00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:01,700
younger people coming out on
adventures.

346
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,540
And so a wandering backpacker

347
00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:07,060
from Canada or America or Australia,

348
00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:12,940
they get recruited into this group and
become some of your, you know,

349
00:26:12,940 --> 00:26:17,660
original members who set up the actual
communal living.

350
00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:22,860
Unfortunately, it had, very early on,

351
00:26:22,860 --> 00:26:26,500
the indicators of an unhealthy,
high-control group.

352
00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:32,940
Original members from 50 years ago,
when they were beginning,

353
00:26:32,940 --> 00:26:36,860
never dreamed that when they joined,

354
00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:39,740
it was going to look anything like it
does now.

355
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:58,100
- Yep, that tent came over to New
Zealand, and when I was a boy,

356
00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:01,340
up until maybe I was 12 years old,

357
00:27:01,340 --> 00:27:03,180
I helped put up that tent.

358
00:27:04,860 --> 00:27:08,140
Goodness, that's Anne, Rosanna's
mother.

359
00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:15,420
- Mum was in university. That's where
she met some of their members,

360
00:27:15,420 --> 00:27:17,700
who invited her along to their church
services,

361
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:19,140
and that got her involved.

362
00:27:19,140 --> 00:27:25,100
My mum's a go-getter and there was a
lot of growth to begin with.

363
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:28,100
You know, we're doing things for
people, and energy,

364
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:30,860
and it was exciting.

365
00:27:35,620 --> 00:27:37,780
- Have you got two houses?

366
00:27:37,780 --> 00:27:39,980
Give to him that hath none!

367
00:27:41,260 --> 00:27:44,540
The Bible says, "He that hath two
coats, give to him that hath none."

368
00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:49,460
So, it's easy to give two coats, but
what about two cars?

369
00:27:54,860 --> 00:27:58,300
- There was an attempt of some form of
social justice

370
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:01,100
in the early stages of the community.

371
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:04,820
That's what attracted, I think, you
know, the early people.

372
00:28:04,820 --> 00:28:09,860
It was strongly socialist, sort of
Christian socialist.

373
00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:15,300
The idea is people should be all
having the same access

374
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,460
to material things.

375
00:28:19,060 --> 00:28:22,180
They didn't call the things they
possessed their own,

376
00:28:22,180 --> 00:28:24,540
but they used them for the good of
everyone.

377
00:28:27,740 --> 00:28:29,860
There was some noble ideas in

378
00:28:29,860 --> 00:28:32,540
the utopian vision. There always is.

379
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:37,740
- Are you prepared today to give your
whole life to Christ

380
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:39,780
and you believe that he's God's son?

381
00:28:39,780 --> 00:28:42,220
- This is Australia. Definitely
Australia.

382
00:28:44,620 --> 00:28:49,060
My dad was born in 1926, in
Queensland.

383
00:28:50,780 --> 00:28:53,100
He had some sort of a...

384
00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:57,460
If I was diagnosing it, he came to a
mental crisis.

385
00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:01,100
He was 22. He had, like,

386
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:04,060
an experience where he believed he met
God

387
00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:06,140
and God spoke to him.

388
00:29:06,140 --> 00:29:08,620
God called him to be a minister.

389
00:29:08,620 --> 00:29:11,140
- ..to find out that didn't work!

390
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:17,620
- He did have an attempt at setting up
a commune in Australia.

391
00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:20,460
He had his vision, and he couldn't
find

392
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:22,860
other people who had the same vision
as him.

393
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:31,220
So he moved to New Zealand

394
00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:34,380
because it's where, you know,

395
00:29:34,380 --> 00:29:38,460
he felt he could get this idea that he
had off the ground.

396
00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:56,900
- Thank you, Lord, for your mercy.

397
00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:02,420
And I'd like to just give you praise
and glory.

398
00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:08,740
Thank you, Lord, that one day, you
shall come again.

399
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:15,540
All the creation that you created in
the beginning shall be destroyed.

400
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:20,420
And, Lord, you will make a new heaven
and a new earth.

401
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:27,180
Thank you, Lord. I'm grateful.

402
00:30:29,020 --> 00:30:30,820
Thank you, Lord.

403
00:30:34,340 --> 00:30:38,540
I am 66 years old,

404
00:30:38,540 --> 00:30:42,300
and I have lived in

405
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:44,860
the Gloriavale community

406
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:47,860
over 50 years,

407
00:30:47,860 --> 00:30:50,420
and I'm still living there today.

408
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:54,580
I remember

409
00:30:54,580 --> 00:30:58,900
the first time I met Neville Cooper.

410
00:30:58,900 --> 00:31:00,780
I was 11.

411
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:05,980
He set up the Voice of Deliverance
tent.

412
00:31:07,260 --> 00:31:11,180
Sitting amongst the crowd is the first
time I ever heard

413
00:31:11,180 --> 00:31:14,100
someone preach like he preached! SHE
CHUCKLES

414
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:19,620
- Every child that is born WILL sin,

415
00:31:19,620 --> 00:31:23,900
because it's got a sinful nature that
WILL sin.

416
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:29,020
We're slaves to it. We're shackled to
it. We can't break it.

417
00:31:29,020 --> 00:31:30,460
It won't be able to help itself...

418
00:31:30,460 --> 00:31:34,540
- "Oh! He's talking about me!

419
00:31:34,540 --> 00:31:37,860
"I've been born with a sinful nature
and I didn't realise it."

420
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:43,340
It was like God was talking to me.

421
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:49,140
I joined the church

422
00:31:49,140 --> 00:31:51,780
because of my salvation.

423
00:31:52,740 --> 00:31:57,700
I needed to be with people who
believed the same.

424
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:06,060
- # Well, we came here two by two

425
00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:09,500
# And he called on me and you

426
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,700
# Loved me true

427
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:14,580
# You know not what you do... #

428
00:32:15,940 --> 00:32:19,580
- In the beginning, they were happy
days.

429
00:32:23,340 --> 00:32:27,340
But he was recruiting people to row
his ship.

430
00:32:29,620 --> 00:32:35,420
He was the captain. And so in every
marriage of a husband and a wife,

431
00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:37,820
they were his recruits

432
00:32:37,820 --> 00:32:42,780
to row his legacy, his ideals.

433
00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:49,180
I was married

434
00:32:49,180 --> 00:32:53,460
aged 17 years old.

435
00:32:53,460 --> 00:32:56,300
I want to submit myself to you

436
00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:59,460
and to obey you, to love you

437
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:04,660
and to satisfy your desires and your
needs, and never to refuse you.

438
00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:09,860
The woman submit, the woman be quiet.
You don't speak,

439
00:33:09,860 --> 00:33:11,460
you just do as you're told.

440
00:33:11,460 --> 00:33:14,260
- Now, we all love God and keep his
Commandments,

441
00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:17,020
not as individuals, but together.

442
00:33:17,020 --> 00:33:21,820
- When God joins you together, you
become one flesh.

443
00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:27,900
- It was a slow coercion, a slow
change.

444
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,060
A little bit here, a little bit there.

445
00:33:31,060 --> 00:33:36,460
You actually lost your identity of who
you are...

446
00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:41,500
..and it felt like you were giving it
willingly.

447
00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:47,780
- Let yourself listen.

448
00:33:47,780 --> 00:33:51,860
Let yourselves be led to Christ.

449
00:33:51,860 --> 00:33:55,820
- PILGRIM:
- Over time, Dad started feeling more
and more confident

450
00:33:55,820 --> 00:33:57,900
about his connection with God.

451
00:33:57,900 --> 00:34:02,220
- You need the living Christ to come
into your heart and life.

452
00:34:02,220 --> 00:34:06,060
Yield to Him and obey Him completely
in all things.

453
00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:10,860
- He definitely believed that he was
God's advocate on Earth,

454
00:34:10,860 --> 00:34:14,300
and so he changed his name to Hopeful
Christian.

455
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:16,340
- ..are sanctified!

456
00:34:16,340 --> 00:34:20,380
- As he got more power, it took him
into the corruption

457
00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:26,820
that power causes to people, so he
ended up with a godlike status.

458
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,380
- THEY SING

459
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:52,340
- I can remember going from wearing
the clothes Mum made us -

460
00:34:52,340 --> 00:34:55,220
our "pretty dresses", as we called
them -

461
00:34:55,220 --> 00:34:57,980
to the uniform,

462
00:34:57,980 --> 00:35:00,580
and not being too keen on it.

463
00:35:01,980 --> 00:35:06,780
As a child, I can remember that it was
about being modest

464
00:35:06,780 --> 00:35:08,620
and about being in unity.

465
00:35:10,860 --> 00:35:12,620
Unity is what they call it.

466
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:16,180
I'll go ahead and call it uniformity.

467
00:35:16,180 --> 00:35:19,140
They expect everybody to just be the
same, do the same,

468
00:35:19,140 --> 00:35:21,100
dress the same, obviously.

469
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:25,020
And if anybody is individualistic

470
00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:28,860
in any way, then they are breaking
that unity.

471
00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:30,780
- THEY ALL SING

472
00:35:30,780 --> 00:35:34,940
- Being different in any way is just
not acceptable.

473
00:35:34,940 --> 00:35:39,420
To cause division, that is a huge sin
in there.

474
00:35:39,420 --> 00:35:42,900
But in hindsight, it's just all about
control.

475
00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:45,220
- You've got a real enemy...

476
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:49,300
..the very devil himself,

477
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:52,100
because he's after your soul.

478
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:55,900
- You've been told your whole life
that if you leave Gloriavale,

479
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:58,740
you go to hell for eternity.

480
00:35:58,740 --> 00:36:00,500
That's your consequence.

481
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:02,700
There'll be eternal damnation when you
die.

482
00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,180
And the more you've sinned,

483
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:08,020
the hotter the flames are,

484
00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:11,460
the deeper in hell you are. You might
have somebody

485
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:14,900
stabbing you as well as you're getting
burnt alive,

486
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:17,500
but the burning never stops, because
you're alive.

487
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:21,900
I was just always terrified.

488
00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:27,620
- He acted upon it, and we knew him to
be Christian.

489
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:31,540
Now is the day of salvation. Now is
the time.

490
00:36:31,540 --> 00:36:33,980
- If the end times have happened and
you're still here,

491
00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:36,980
if you haven't been taken off this
earth when the Lord returns,

492
00:36:36,980 --> 00:36:39,500
you are going to be persecuted

493
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:41,860
like nothing you've ever heard about
before.

494
00:36:41,860 --> 00:36:44,860
You're going to be murdered, or dipped
in hot oil,

495
00:36:44,860 --> 00:36:47,180
or burnt at the stake.

496
00:36:47,180 --> 00:36:51,540
I just lived in constant fear of not
making it.

497
00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:56,260
Hopeful would be preaching about, "Are
you ready? Are you ready?

498
00:36:56,260 --> 00:36:58,900
"If the Lord returned right now, where
would you be?

499
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:00,780
"Would you be in hell or heaven?"

500
00:37:00,780 --> 00:37:03,420
And then he'd say, "Everybody just be
quiet.

501
00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:05,540
"Can you hear the trumpet?

502
00:37:11,060 --> 00:37:13,620
"Can you hear it?

503
00:37:13,620 --> 00:37:14,980
"Are you ready?

504
00:37:14,980 --> 00:37:17,260
"What did you do today that's going to
send you to hell?"

505
00:37:23,500 --> 00:37:27,420
I'd be up, and my team-mate, who was
meant to start with me,

506
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:31,220
hadn't showed up, and I'd think, "Oh,
I'm left behind.

507
00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:36,580
"I am the only person here."

508
00:37:37,740 --> 00:37:40,180
So I would just be terrified.

509
00:37:41,340 --> 00:37:42,900
I couldn't even move.

510
00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:48,820
The other side to that is if you leave
Gloriavale,

511
00:37:48,820 --> 00:37:51,780
then you're most likely to be punished
in this life as well...

512
00:37:53,140 --> 00:37:54,700
..in this evil, wicked world.

513
00:38:02,820 --> 00:38:06,580
My perception of the outside world was
that it was a very dangerous...

514
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:11,300
..destitute...

515
00:38:12,940 --> 00:38:16,900
..wicked, evil place.

516
00:38:22,780 --> 00:38:26,260
Even if I could find any joy

517
00:38:26,260 --> 00:38:27,740
in living in the outside world,

518
00:38:27,740 --> 00:38:30,660
it would be the devil making me feel
good.

519
00:38:32,740 --> 00:38:36,140
We were told, "This is what we're
protecting you from.

520
00:38:36,140 --> 00:38:39,140
"You've got such a good life here.
We've done this for you.

521
00:38:39,140 --> 00:38:41,340
"We have taken you out of this evil,
wicked world."

522
00:38:46,660 --> 00:38:49,660
- BELL RINGS

523
00:39:28,380 --> 00:39:31,940
- Good morning, Mrs Valor.
- Good morning.

524
00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:36,580
My name is Purity Valor. I am 48 years
old.

525
00:39:36,580 --> 00:39:39,980
I have lived in the church and
community

526
00:39:39,980 --> 00:39:42,380
in its varying forms my whole life.

527
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:47,500
- Purity, share with us what Christ
means to you.

528
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:51,900
- When I was baptised, I just felt so
free.

529
00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:53,700
I was so happy.

530
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:58,100
- Praise God. Praise God.

531
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:02,820
Praise the Lord.
- Everything changed.

532
00:40:05,980 --> 00:40:08,620
And now I'm so happy that I'm free

533
00:40:08,620 --> 00:40:10,860
and I can go to heaven.

534
00:40:10,860 --> 00:40:13,500
- Amen. Amen.

535
00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:16,740
- For me to stop believing that
Gloriavale is the place

536
00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:20,340
where God wants me to live, I would
have to stop believing

537
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:23,100
a lot of other things that I believe
now.

538
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:29,620
Everybody needs to have the same mind,
speak the same things,

539
00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:31,900
believe the same things

540
00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:36,140
and live in common unity together.

541
00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:39,780
It's very difficult for someone to
live in that common unity

542
00:40:39,780 --> 00:40:42,260
who doesn't believe the same things,

543
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:44,860
speak the same things or have the same
mind.

544
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:47,260
- The expectation

545
00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:52,300
of the community is that everybody
will live in unity, isn't it?

546
00:40:54,540 --> 00:40:57,020
- "Behold how good and how pleasant it
is for brethren

547
00:40:57,020 --> 00:41:01,380
"to dwell together in unity." That's
what the Bible says.

548
00:41:01,380 --> 00:41:02,620
- Unity comes

549
00:41:02,620 --> 00:41:06,860
from each member being surrendered to
the Lord Jesus Christ.

550
00:41:06,860 --> 00:41:12,060
- How would you understand use of the
word "submission"

551
00:41:12,060 --> 00:41:14,380
in the outside community?

552
00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:21,220
- I would automatically think of a
power imbalance.

553
00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:25,820
- The power structure in Gloriavale
goes from the Overseeing Shepherd.

554
00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:27,620
So the Overseeing Shepherd

555
00:41:27,620 --> 00:41:30,020
has the final say in everything.

556
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:34,420
And then under him is the Shepherds,

557
00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:37,300
and then under them is the Servants.

558
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:39,580
The idea was to have 12 leaders,

559
00:41:39,580 --> 00:41:42,220
like in the Bible, the 12 disciples.

560
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:43,980
They'll watch everybody,

561
00:41:43,980 --> 00:41:45,820
they'll chase up stuff.

562
00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:48,660
They enforce what's going on.

563
00:41:48,660 --> 00:41:50,460
And the men have authority

564
00:41:50,460 --> 00:41:53,100
over the women. Then the women,

565
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:55,260
in general, kind of bottom of the
heap.

566
00:41:55,260 --> 00:41:58,580
- It states in the Word of God clearly

567
00:41:58,580 --> 00:42:04,100
that women should not teach or preach
or usurp authority over men.

568
00:42:04,100 --> 00:42:06,260
- I submitted to my husband.

569
00:42:06,260 --> 00:42:08,260
It's a choice that I make.

570
00:42:08,260 --> 00:42:12,700
I submit myself to the men in
authority as a choice that I make.

571
00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:16,740
- Do you know how the leaders are
chosen?

572
00:42:17,940 --> 00:42:20,660
- With a lot of prayer.

573
00:42:20,660 --> 00:42:24,260
- By whom? Who's doing the praying?
- By the leaders.
- So the leaders pray,

574
00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:28,100
decide upon someone and announce it to
the community.
- Yep.

575
00:42:31,220 --> 00:42:34,460
- I think a mistake is made when
thinking about Gloriavale

576
00:42:34,460 --> 00:42:40,060
that the leaders are skimming off
money, living in fancy houses

577
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:42,660
and have yachts and cars.

578
00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:45,740
No. Money's not the currency for them.

579
00:42:45,740 --> 00:42:48,300
Power and control is their currency.

580
00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:52,020
- For the Lord himself shall descend
from heaven with a shout.

581
00:42:52,020 --> 00:42:54,420
- In Gloriavale, you've got Servants
and Shepherds,

582
00:42:54,420 --> 00:42:57,140
and Believers and people in there
called them the SS.

583
00:42:58,340 --> 00:43:00,500
And that's referring to the level

584
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:03,860
of power and control that this group
of men had over people.

585
00:43:03,860 --> 00:43:06,420
- The time to get right with God is
now.

586
00:43:10,420 --> 00:43:14,540
- We have an enemy.

587
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:19,260
Satan is against you.

588
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:21,740
Satan is against the church.

589
00:43:21,740 --> 00:43:25,580
- For a while, we were resistant. This
isn't a war.

590
00:43:25,580 --> 00:43:28,860
We're, like, trying to help people.
But Gloriavale framed it

591
00:43:28,860 --> 00:43:31,180
in the terms of a war, so let's go
with it.

592
00:43:31,180 --> 00:43:34,420
There's hurt, there's tears, and it's
not pretty,

593
00:43:34,420 --> 00:43:36,300
but you've got to look to the peace in
the future.

594
00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:41,140
We can't be here, doing this, in 30
years.

595
00:43:50,260 --> 00:43:52,500
- It's, like, in this shed.

596
00:43:55,300 --> 00:44:00,860
It's a bit embarrassing, but there's a
filing cabinet in here

597
00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:03,540
which basically hasn't been opened
since the mid-Nineties.

598
00:44:03,540 --> 00:44:05,500
I'll just move these surfboards.

599
00:44:07,220 --> 00:44:08,540
In here.

600
00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:12,140
SHE LAUGHS
Oh, my God!

601
00:44:12,140 --> 00:44:15,620
Look at this. This was our filing
system back in the Nineties!

602
00:44:17,460 --> 00:44:19,100
Oh...

603
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:24,460
Here it is.

604
00:44:24,460 --> 00:44:27,020
VOICEOVER: I was in my late twenties.
I'd been reporting

605
00:44:27,020 --> 00:44:30,660
for about four years, and I heard
about

606
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:35,820
all these people being indoctrinated,
about them being

607
00:44:35,820 --> 00:44:37,780
almost, like, under a spell.

608
00:44:39,140 --> 00:44:42,700
It was starting to all feel a bit
sect-y.

609
00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:46,860
And also, this was starting to look
like,

610
00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:49,140
"Have we got a cult in New Zealand?"

611
00:44:52,020 --> 00:44:55,660
I discovered that half of

612
00:44:55,660 --> 00:44:57,100
Neville Cooper's children

613
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:00,140
were outside of the community

614
00:45:00,140 --> 00:45:02,500
and half were in.

615
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:05,300
And so I would spend quite a bit of
time

616
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:07,780
trying to get my head around all of
that.

617
00:45:07,780 --> 00:45:13,460
And I spent quite a bit of time with
them all outside of work hours.

618
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:15,820
They were troubled.

619
00:45:15,820 --> 00:45:18,300
The Cooper family were troubled.

620
00:45:19,340 --> 00:45:22,660
How can they be so damaged?

621
00:45:22,660 --> 00:45:25,980
What the hell happens to people

622
00:45:25,980 --> 00:45:30,700
for them to be so, so, so damaged?

623
00:45:31,980 --> 00:45:34,140
When Phil Cooper reached his late

624
00:45:34,140 --> 00:45:36,340
twenties, he started to seriously

625
00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:41,100
doubt whether life in the community
was right for him and his family.

626
00:45:41,100 --> 00:45:44,900
A rift began to develop between Phil
Cooper and his father,

627
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:47,820
and eventually, he left to live in the
outside world,

628
00:45:47,820 --> 00:45:50,260
while he thought things through.

629
00:45:50,260 --> 00:45:53,340
At this point, Phil Cooper says the
religious leaders

630
00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:54,660
made it difficult for him

631
00:45:54,660 --> 00:45:57,540
to maintain contact with his family.

632
00:45:57,540 --> 00:46:00,580
Once you left, it was over.

633
00:46:00,580 --> 00:46:02,100
You were out.

634
00:46:02,100 --> 00:46:04,180
You were dead to them,

635
00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:06,780
because you had betrayed them,

636
00:46:06,780 --> 00:46:09,740
you had gone out into "the world".

637
00:46:09,740 --> 00:46:12,140
You were nothing, you were gone,

638
00:46:12,140 --> 00:46:16,700
and you were going to hell in a
handbasket, like everybody else.

639
00:46:20,780 --> 00:46:22,980
- We're going to go down into the
water

640
00:46:22,980 --> 00:46:27,900
and we're going to baptise these boys,
bury them.

641
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:31,540
- Yeah, it looks like me. Surely it's
me.

642
00:46:33,060 --> 00:46:36,060
- Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

643
00:46:39,780 --> 00:46:41,580
- I'm the fifteenth child

644
00:46:41,580 --> 00:46:44,180
of 16 born to Mum and Dad.

645
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:46,780
Some of them, I hardly even know.

646
00:46:48,940 --> 00:46:51,140
There's four out of 16

647
00:46:51,140 --> 00:46:54,180
that are still in the community,

648
00:46:54,180 --> 00:46:56,420
and the rest have left.

649
00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:03,780
My dad believed that he had to
sacrifice his children

650
00:47:03,780 --> 00:47:07,340
to his God, his vision.

651
00:47:11,380 --> 00:47:13,140
Who shouldn't you sacrifice

652
00:47:13,140 --> 00:47:15,660
if you're going to have Heaven on
Earth?

653
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:20,300
My mum, Gloria, was

654
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:22,780
a very interesting person, in that

655
00:47:22,780 --> 00:47:25,580
I've never met anyone, ever,

656
00:47:25,580 --> 00:47:27,620
who has ever said

657
00:47:27,620 --> 00:47:30,500
that they've been hurt by my mum.

658
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:34,140
I mean, she may have been naive, in a
way, as well,

659
00:47:34,140 --> 00:47:37,620
because so much of life just didn't
bother her.

660
00:47:37,620 --> 00:47:39,900
You know, maybe you could say, well,
there's something that

661
00:47:39,900 --> 00:47:44,940
she had missing. Maybe true, but
no-one sort of blames her

662
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:48,580
when she sort of did what my dad
expected of her.

663
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:55,420
- What about this business of fleeing
youthful lusts?

664
00:47:55,420 --> 00:47:59,820
What are these lusts?

665
00:47:59,820 --> 00:48:01,700
Does it mean childish?

666
00:48:01,700 --> 00:48:08,260
It certainly doesn't mean manly, does
it, manly desires?

667
00:48:08,260 --> 00:48:11,780
- My dad, as he got more power,

668
00:48:11,780 --> 00:48:13,420
it took him into

669
00:48:13,420 --> 00:48:15,500
perverting and sexual ways.

670
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:27,340
He thought the Christian, strictly
religious barriers around sex

671
00:48:27,340 --> 00:48:31,420
were too tight and sex wasn't such
this bad thing.

672
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:34,260
So he decided that married couples are
going to get rid of

673
00:48:34,260 --> 00:48:37,380
some of their inhibitions, and so
they're going to enjoy

674
00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:40,540
their sex lives better, etc, etc.

675
00:48:40,540 --> 00:48:43,380
And that went quite a bit off-track.

676
00:48:53,940 --> 00:48:56,580
- There's a statement from somebody.

677
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:01,700
It's a bit grim, reading this,
actually.

678
00:49:03,420 --> 00:49:07,620
I found out about some of this weird

679
00:49:07,620 --> 00:49:09,820
sexual activity that was going on.

680
00:49:11,260 --> 00:49:16,420
What became apparent was it was this
kind of spiritual, sexual teaching,

681
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:18,820
where he would teach the boys to
masturbate,

682
00:49:18,820 --> 00:49:21,380
he would teach them how to masturbate
women.

683
00:49:21,380 --> 00:49:24,900
It all started to snowball about what
was actually

684
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:28,140
really going on in there, under the
kind of guise of

685
00:49:28,140 --> 00:49:32,300
this kind of, you know, Kingdom of
God.

686
00:49:33,420 --> 00:49:36,020
- Neville first started to talk about,

687
00:49:36,020 --> 00:49:38,740
"Man and his wife should be much
closer."

688
00:49:38,740 --> 00:49:42,220
And then he starts to preach that they
had to be closer sexually.

689
00:49:42,220 --> 00:49:46,460
And then he started to have
demonstration sexual sessions

690
00:49:46,460 --> 00:49:48,180
in front of the big open fires.

691
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:49,540
They all used to spread out

692
00:49:49,540 --> 00:49:51,340
on the floor, covered with blankets,

693
00:49:51,340 --> 00:49:54,260
and they would virtually all have sex
together.

694
00:49:54,260 --> 00:49:56,460
- You sleep with your parents when
they have sex,

695
00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:59,260
you sleep with your grandparents when
they have sex.

696
00:49:59,260 --> 00:50:02,700
- I've seen them videotape a young
couple, you know, on their first

697
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:04,940
wedding night, making love for the
first time, having sex.

698
00:50:04,940 --> 00:50:08,420
I've seen them.
- And then, of course, they built a
spa pool.

699
00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:12,380
First, Mum and Dad were encouraged to
go naked into the spa pool,

700
00:50:12,380 --> 00:50:15,740
but then the teenage girls and boys

701
00:50:15,740 --> 00:50:18,500
were encouraged to go naked with Mum
and Dad,

702
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:20,220
and then multiple families,

703
00:50:20,220 --> 00:50:23,260
with Neville supposedly training

704
00:50:23,260 --> 00:50:25,540
young girls of 13 and 14.

705
00:50:25,540 --> 00:50:27,660
I just said to him, "You've lost it,
mate.

706
00:50:27,660 --> 00:50:31,140
"You haven't got a church here. You've
got a glorified brothel."

707
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:34,460
- Round and round the floor I go!

708
00:50:34,460 --> 00:50:37,820
Buy my treats!

709
00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:40,900
- Before we were married, he would
invite us over

710
00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:43,060
and show us how sex was done,

711
00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:47,340
by just...him and Mum having sex
together.

712
00:50:47,340 --> 00:50:50,180
- Then there was post-marital therapy.

713
00:50:50,180 --> 00:50:54,660
- He would undress her, lay on the bed
and proceed to massage her all over,

714
00:50:54,660 --> 00:50:57,340
fondle her all over.
- In front of you?

715
00:50:57,340 --> 00:51:00,740
- Yeah.
- In front of your mother?
- Yep.

716
00:51:00,740 --> 00:51:02,540
- So this went on for weeks,

717
00:51:02,540 --> 00:51:04,260
months?
- Oh, years.

718
00:51:04,260 --> 00:51:07,900
- Did you have to have sex with your
wife so your father could watch?

719
00:51:07,900 --> 00:51:11,540
- Yeah. He would instruct

720
00:51:11,540 --> 00:51:14,100
other couples over the years, too.

721
00:51:14,100 --> 00:51:17,900
- HE SINGS LOUDLY

722
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:24,060
- My dad, with his sexual abuse that
he was doing, under the guise of

723
00:51:24,060 --> 00:51:27,220
teaching them how to have sex, being
involved,

724
00:51:27,220 --> 00:51:29,500
just live porn, really.

725
00:51:30,660 --> 00:51:33,980
He was just getting sexual
gratification out of...

726
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:36,500
He had that power to do it,

727
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:39,140
and he could justify it with

728
00:51:39,140 --> 00:51:44,140
a religious good intention, that he's
helping these people.

729
00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:48,060
- # Round and round the cages I go! #

730
00:51:49,220 --> 00:51:50,700
- HE ROARS

731
00:51:57,940 --> 00:52:00,860
- Sadly, he took upon himself

732
00:52:00,860 --> 00:52:05,380
to come right into my marriage
situation.

733
00:52:16,900 --> 00:52:21,500
He was right there in our space.

734
00:52:27,580 --> 00:52:30,020
He was participating with his wife.

735
00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:35,300
Everything that I was doing with my
own husband,

736
00:52:35,300 --> 00:52:37,740
he could hear it, he could see it.

737
00:52:41,940 --> 00:52:43,900
He carried on...

738
00:52:44,940 --> 00:52:48,740
..till I had...seven children.

739
00:52:51,260 --> 00:52:54,100
I was just confused. I was frozen.

740
00:52:54,100 --> 00:52:58,380
I was, "Oh, no, not this again.

741
00:52:58,380 --> 00:53:05,020
"Oh... I'm a mother. Can't you see?
Just let me be a mother.

742
00:53:05,020 --> 00:53:08,100
"I'm not really your...toy."

743
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:23,100
They were very troublesome times for
me.

744
00:53:25,700 --> 00:53:30,380
I actually felt like I was a sinner
before God

745
00:53:30,380 --> 00:53:32,540
and that I'd lost my soul.

746
00:53:33,980 --> 00:53:37,420
- # If I'd known... #

747
00:53:41,180 --> 00:53:44,980
- It was just horror story after
horror story.

748
00:53:44,980 --> 00:53:46,780
How can this be happening?

749
00:53:46,780 --> 00:53:48,820
How can nobody be doing anything?

750
00:53:49,980 --> 00:53:55,020
So I came up with this plan that
because they had a floating

751
00:53:55,020 --> 00:53:59,100
herringbone cow shed - it was the only
one on the South Island -

752
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:03,500
I rang the community and said that I
was on my holidays

753
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:06,940
from Lincoln University and said that
I wanted to come

754
00:54:06,940 --> 00:54:11,300
and do work experience, in particular,
with them

755
00:54:11,300 --> 00:54:13,980
because of their floating herringbone
cow shed.

756
00:54:13,980 --> 00:54:17,340
I then went every day before work,

757
00:54:17,340 --> 00:54:19,780
and I milked cows every day

758
00:54:19,780 --> 00:54:22,220
at, like, four in the morning before I
went to work,

759
00:54:22,220 --> 00:54:24,980
so that when I went in there, I
actually knew what I was doing.

760
00:54:26,300 --> 00:54:29,140
I'm a pretty straight-up person,

761
00:54:29,140 --> 00:54:31,620
but I really did bullshit

762
00:54:31,620 --> 00:54:32,980
to get in there.

763
00:54:32,980 --> 00:54:36,100
I had another name. Nelly.

764
00:54:37,540 --> 00:54:39,140
OK, so I've got my name,

765
00:54:39,140 --> 00:54:40,620
I can milk a cow,

766
00:54:40,620 --> 00:54:42,940
I could do the Lord's Prayer,

767
00:54:42,940 --> 00:54:45,380
I knew the Ten Commandments.

768
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:48,820
So now this was just like, "Right, I'm
going in.

769
00:54:48,820 --> 00:54:50,620
"I'm going undercover.

770
00:54:50,620 --> 00:54:53,420
"I'm going to be able to explain
exactly what the hell's

771
00:54:53,420 --> 00:54:56,180
"happening here, because I'm going to
go and live in there.

772
00:54:57,540 --> 00:55:01,100
"You're meant to be a Christian. I'll
show you."

773
00:55:05,020 --> 00:55:07,500
MUSIC: House Of The Rising Sun by
Lindsay Wright

774
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:15,660
- # Oh, mothers, tell your children

775
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:23,300
# Not to do what I have... #

776
00:55:51,620 --> 00:55:57,280
- Husbands and fathers were taught to
teach their children what sex was.

777
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,600
And fathers were taught that they
should invite their kids

778
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,560
into the room and show them what sex
between a husband and wife was.

779
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:17,280
We had to watch

780
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:21,360
my mum and dad have sex.

781
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,720
I would have only been eight, eight or
nine.

782
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:38,240
I just tried to not think about what
was happening.

783
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:45,440
I thought that every father was doing
that to their children.

784
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,040
It just became normal to us.

785
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,200
- # When you come, I'll follow you

786
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,000
# I'll follow you. #

787
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:20,640
You have to be in the mountains in the
New Zealand West Coast.

788
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:24,600
You have to see it to believe it.

789
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,400
# Rumours of the heavenly sea

790
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,160
# Sprawling forth amidst the seas

791
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,960
# In the bloom of her virginity

792
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,440
# Rose beyond belief... #

793
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:40,600
A dirt road, with all these trees,
causing this darkness.

794
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,520
Black water.

795
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,960
Just no-one for bloody miles.

796
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,920
And there I was, undercover,

797
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:58,120
into this really isolated community.

798
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,640
Hopeful Christian says that the
outfits worn by the women

799
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:06,720
in this community are designed to be
submissive, sweet and feminine.

800
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,760
He believes that all the women should
look the same, like this,

801
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:14,120
because it stops the evils of vanity
and prevents

802
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,440
competitiveness amongst women.

803
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,360
Here we are, taking photos.

804
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,120
I can remember thinking, they're not
going to believe this at work.

805
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:25,000
I'm now actually even wearing the
frock.

806
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,400
I thought I looked terrible in it,
too.

807
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,080
I sort of always had sort of oversized
bosoms

808
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:31,680
from about the age of about 12.

809
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,520
And I sort of felt like one of the
cows that I was milking,

810
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,240
and it was just like, "Oh, dear!

811
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,040
"What have I got myself into?"

812
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:44,240
To begin with, I worked in the dairy.

813
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,200
It was an unusual situation because
farm work is strictly

814
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,320
a male domain.

815
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,480
So, I swapped the farming for the
washing.

816
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:57,800
As a result, I became more accepted
and learnt more about the lives of

817
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,800
the younger girls.

818
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:04,680
I was still being kept a pretty strong
eye on by Neville.

819
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,480
- We know today that there are
witnesses in Heaven...

820
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,000
..and they are witnessing to what is
happening here today.

821
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,360
- He was their leader. Revered, loved,

822
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,160
and they hung on his every word.

823
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,440
- We're not a community. We're a
church.

824
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:27,560
- He had this voice that boomed.

825
00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:29,480
It felt like when he spoke to you,

826
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,720
he kind of spoke right at you, and it
would kind of sit with you,

827
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:36,120
or it did with me, for the day.

828
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:42,240
I did understand what hell it would be
if you tried to leave.

829
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:47,280
The world was evil, and here, it's
protected.

830
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,720
We are the chosen ones.

831
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,360
We are the people of God, and the next
best thing to God

832
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,680
was probably Neville Cooper.

833
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,920
THUNDERCLAP

834
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,520
If you look at where they live, to
actually escape physically

835
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,080
feels impossible.

836
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,240
But to escape psychologically,

837
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,000
it actually is impossible.

838
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,880
NEWS PROGRAMME STING

839
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,960
- From New Zealand and around the
world,

840
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,240
this is 20/20.

841
01:00:23,240 --> 01:00:27,800
- Tonight, on 20/20, his people say
he's the voice of God.

842
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:30,960
Some of his family say he thinks he is
God.

843
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,200
- Neville is capable of doing a Jim
Jones

844
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:36,040
or a Dave Koresh thing.
- They say that they live in

845
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,360
this community because they have given
themselves

846
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,360
totally and truly to God,

847
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,360
and that they love and adore their
leader, Hopeful Christian.

848
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,520
I did three or four stories.

849
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,480
It had every single thing that you
could imagine.

850
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,040
Sexual abuse,

851
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:52,800
indoctrination,

852
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,680
confusion about God. It was like being
in your own bloody thriller.

853
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,200
- All my daughter wants to do

854
01:00:58,200 --> 01:00:59,920
is see her mother and...
- I'm not talking to you.

855
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:01,520
There's a proper way, and this is not
the way.

856
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:03,440
You're not welcome here.
- Well, fine.

857
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,480
- Some of the women told me in great
detail about

858
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:10,520
having their hymen broken the night
before their wedding.

859
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,440
- It looked very much like this.

860
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,120
It was about that much longer...

861
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,960
..and probably about that much in
circumference.

862
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:29,560
And he said to me, "I'm going to use
this to stretch your muscles,

863
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,760
"so that you don't have any pain."

864
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,520
Um...

865
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,120
I felt like I was being ripped in two.

866
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:42,080
- It was a very, very big story in New
Zealand.

867
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,600
So while they were completely
physically isolated,

868
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,200
people in this country now knew what
was going on.

869
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:50,960
SIRENS WAIL

870
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,240
- Dozens of police raided two South
Island Christian communities

871
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:55,720
shortly after dawn this morning.

872
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,600
They were acting on the complaints of
former members.
- A young woman

873
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,680
alleges she was sexually violated by
Mr Cooper with a wooden object.

874
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,000
Another woman says she and her teenage
sisters

875
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,840
were told by Mr Cooper to undress and
then touch his private parts.

876
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,400
A young man alleges he and his teenage
brothers were told

877
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:16,400
to undress and watch as Mr Cooper and
his wife performed sexual acts.

878
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:20,400
- Police moved in fast. With them, a
fire engine and an ambulance,

879
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,640
signs police had prepared for the
worst.

880
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,840
- Do not allow them through the gates.
Back you go! Right back.

881
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,080
- Somebody came running in the main
door...

882
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:31,480
..and locked the doors.

883
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,040
We were taught that the police

884
01:02:34,040 --> 01:02:36,960
just wanted to destroy us, that they'd
split up our families,

885
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:38,800
and so I was petrified.

886
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:42,880
- All the children just scattered like
rabbits, because

887
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,200
in their mind,

888
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,640
they're coming to take you away.

889
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,440
- I can remember peeking out

890
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:51,600
the curtains and being told off.

891
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:53,520
"Don't look out the curtains."

892
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,240
- When the raids were over, they'd
arrested just one man,

893
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,160
Christian sect leader Neville Cooper,

894
01:02:58,160 --> 01:02:59,840
who came originally from Australia.

895
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:03,800
- A jury has found Cooper guilty of
ten of the 11 charges

896
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,800
of indecent assault.

897
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,160
- You've got the judgment.

898
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:11,280
Ah...

899
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,400
"You were the leader of a
fundamentalist Christian community.

900
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:18,920
"All of the young complainants were
members of your flock,

901
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:20,560
"conditioned to do your bidding.

902
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:22,600
"Yours was the pervasive influence

903
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,760
"on the lives of all these young
people.

904
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,360
"I find the evidence was overwhelming.

905
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:32,120
"You used and abused your position of
trust, power and dominion

906
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,800
"to sexually abuse the complainants,
while professing to do these things

907
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:39,480
"to relieve their tensions and/or
prepare them for life."

908
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:44,000
I think this judge, right then, could
see,

909
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,560
he's using the words "conditioning",
the "power", the "dominion".

910
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,000
It wasn't like you couldn't see back
then

911
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,440
what the community had already become.

912
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,360
- If you want to fix yourself that way
slightly.

913
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,160
No, other way... Yeah.

914
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,440
- The other problem

915
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:10,840
in the community has been

916
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,920
a raft of sexual offending, and the
first that that issue

917
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,920
went into the public was when the
Overseeing Shepherd

918
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:24,840
Hopeful Christian was arrested and
charged, isn't it?
- Yes.

919
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:30,080
- And what explanations were you given

920
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,360
in the community of what was going on?

921
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:39,240
- I knew the man very well, and I know
his motives

922
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,120
were nothing but good, to help other
people.

923
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,200
And from there,

924
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,680
I believe it got twisted to what the
court judged.

925
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,800
- You have always known about Hopeful
Christian's past, haven't you?

926
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,360
- I don't believe that it was

927
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:08,280
what they say it was.

928
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:17,360
- We got told that it was people who
had left that were bitter

929
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,920
and angry and just wanted to destroy
our faith,

930
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,640
and they wanted to persecute Hopeful
for being a Christian,

931
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,400
and so that's why he had gone to jail.

932
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,600
- I'd sort of thought, when he went to
prison...

933
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,000
..that it would come right.

934
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,240
But, oh, my God, how wrong I was!

935
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,600
- After serving 11 months of a
six-year prison sentence

936
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,960
for sexual offending, Gloriavale
leader Hopeful Christian

937
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,120
was released back into the community.

938
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,800
- The 69-year-old leader of Gloriavale

939
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:54,600
is now free to rejoin the Christian
community.

940
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:56,000
- What a terrible time

941
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,080
we're living in, brethren,

942
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,600
right at the end...

943
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:06,200
This would be one of the worst ages
for sin,

944
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,720
deception, evil,

945
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:12,640
to trick people away from the truth.

946
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:16,520
- I don't remember the day he came
back...

947
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,800
..but I can remember him just being
back.

948
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:27,920
The Lord had heard our prayers, and he
had destroyed

949
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,640
the intentions of the wicked men

950
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,640
that had helped put Hopeful in prison.
So, you know,

951
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,240
I can remember it being an exciting
thing that he was back.

952
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:48,480
- It's astonishing that he did such a
short term in prison.

953
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,280
He gets done for sexual abuse, and
then he's released

954
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,320
back into the community where the
sexual abuse has taken place,

955
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,040
where there's all those women,

956
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:00,080
when there's all those young boys.

957
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,520
And back as a hero,

958
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,440
because the world had tried to nail
him, but he was back.

959
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,480
The big, bad world,

960
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,440
they'd tried to get him, but they
couldn't.

961
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:20,520
He was too powerful.

962
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,200
- He saw the world as a place where

963
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,040
everyone else was against him.

964
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:42,240
It created a "them and us" type of
attitude.

965
01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:47,440
The outside world just hate us,
they're just against us.

966
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,360
They're trying to destroy us.

967
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:53,200
In the community,

968
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,840
it was seen as he was being falsely
accused...

969
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,440
..and that was a much nicer story,

970
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,960
and so that's the one I wanted to
believe.

971
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:06,760
But at the same time,

972
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:08,440
something inside me

973
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,120
knew things weren't quite right.

974
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:18,360
Some people who are wanting to move
away from Gloriavale contacted me,

975
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,480
wanting a house to rent,

976
01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:23,800
and this one's available because the
tenants are moving out.

977
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,840
A bit of a problem, it hasn't got a
fence, and they've got little kids.

978
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:46,760
The couple texted me wanting to talk,
and I've texted back saying,

979
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:49,040
you know, "Call me any time."

980
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:51,840
There was something suspicious about
why she contacted me,

981
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,000
and then, all of a sudden, there's no
contact.

982
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,000
So I'm just going to go up and check,
call in,

983
01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,640
see if they're OK.

984
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:15,360
It'll be a Gloriavale person.

985
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,680
But I wouldn't get too worried because
if you drive around

986
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:23,000
like you own the place, no-one's going
to even know.

987
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:36,080
This is a dairy farm that, um,
Gloriavale owns,

988
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:39,560
but it's run remotely. It's been
commonly used

989
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:42,160
for people who are being isolated,

990
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,600
or people with problems.

991
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:51,840
This is the house here. Just, um, hide
the camera now.

992
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:54,560
We really don't want any attention.

993
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,440
- Here he comes, here he comes.

994
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:20,440
- So, my suspicions were pretty true.

995
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:21,880
They didn't see me.

996
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,280
I'm just going to move out of here

997
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:28,040
and we'll...we'll come up with

998
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:31,760
a different time to contact and a
different strategy.

999
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:37,880
One of the leaders is in there,
talking to the husband,

1000
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,840
and is obviously aware that they're
wanting to leave.

1001
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:42,760
And he's one of the worst bullies

1002
01:10:42,760 --> 01:10:44,240
in Gloriavale for, like,

1003
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,120
psychologically putting pressure on
people.

1004
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,520
Hopefully, they'll still talk to me
now.

1005
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,280
That's probably the thing that I'm
really worried about,

1006
01:10:56,280 --> 01:10:59,680
is they then start cutting off some
healthy communication

1007
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,160
that they've been having with the
outside world.

1008
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,640
All this sort of stuff is fairly close
to home.

1009
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:11,400
I've lived through heaps of

1010
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:15,440
religious manipulating pressure...

1011
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:18,680
..so you're seeing a little bit

1012
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:20,040
of that rattling.

1013
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:29,280
When there's someone the leaders don't
like, they turn against you.

1014
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,360
You know, they start turning your
family

1015
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,360
against you, because you're this evil
person.

1016
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:36,040
You're turning against the church.

1017
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,320
You become socially isolated because
people know you're bad,

1018
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,120
they become scared of you.

1019
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:42,880
So even while you're in there,

1020
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,720
you can become very, very lonely and
isolated,

1021
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:50,600
and it's really, really not nice to
have people you love

1022
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:52,480
actually feel hatred from them.

1023
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,720
- So across these waters

1024
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,840
and nestled beneath the mountains,
that's Gloriavale.

1025
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:31,480
In spite of the leadership

1026
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,800
wanting Sharon and I to be gone from
the community,

1027
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:36,880
we still live there.

1028
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:53,120
So here's the balcony,

1029
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,160
and our room is at the far end.

1030
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:01,320
And it's a strange way to end

1031
01:13:01,320 --> 01:13:03,560
a 45-odd year involvement

1032
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:05,160
with the community.

1033
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:13,840
We are not allowed within 100m of the
main community buildings...

1034
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,160
..so we've made a home about 200m

1035
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:20,800
down from the main community.

1036
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,920
- That's where the birds live. It's
where the mice live.

1037
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,640
- We are uninvited guests,

1038
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,360
living here in rather awkward
circumstances.

1039
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:47,240
- I want to stay where I am

1040
01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,640
because I believe that's actually
God's will

1041
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,240
for me to stay right where I am.

1042
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,560
That is something I prayed about for a
long time.

1043
01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:05,200
I have a young 14-year-old daughter

1044
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:07,600
buried in the graveyard.

1045
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:12,160
Mummy loves you very much.

1046
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:15,040
Yeah.

1047
01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:18,640
And two sons,

1048
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:20,360
three daughters

1049
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:23,720
and around 35 grandchildren

1050
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:25,840
still living in Gloriavale.

1051
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:31,880
And so I'm hanging in there

1052
01:14:31,880 --> 01:14:34,440
so my grandchildren and my children

1053
01:14:34,440 --> 01:14:37,840
can come and talk to me, if they have
a serious need.

1054
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:48,960
- Angel Benjamin, could you please

1055
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:52,320
continue your brief of evidence?

1056
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:55,240
- Both my parents, Clem and Sharon
Ready,

1057
01:14:55,240 --> 01:14:56,960
joined the community as youths

1058
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,480
and were married and raised a family
of 13 children.

1059
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:04,520
There was a lot of turmoil in the
family that I grew up,

1060
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,000
and this is my voice here.

1061
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:09,960
They might have a different opinion on
it.

1062
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:14,080
- One, two, three!

1063
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:15,920
That's great. Thank you.

1064
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:18,640
- Hello, Mummy.
- Hello.

1065
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:20,720
I've been busy.
- And me.

1066
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:22,840
Hello, Priya.
- Hi.

1067
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:25,560
- You missed it, Mum.

1068
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,800
I am a committed member of the
Gloriavale Christian community

1069
01:15:31,800 --> 01:15:38,040
and pray to be this way until Jesus
comes and finds me in peace,

1070
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,400
faithfully living his Commandments.

1071
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,600
My prayer for those still in the
battle

1072
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:46,280
is to make peace before that day.

1073
01:15:49,240 --> 01:15:54,840
- I was not upset with what she was
testifying in the court

1074
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:58,440
because that is what I believed.

1075
01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:00,920
I brought her up to believe in the
church,

1076
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:03,880
to believe in the...what we believe.

1077
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,280
Every church has a dogma

1078
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:12,280
and this is the GV interpretation

1079
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:14,240
of the Scripture.

1080
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:17,840
It's not just about giving your life
to Christ.

1081
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,040
You have to sign over

1082
01:16:20,040 --> 01:16:23,400
complete control

1083
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:25,640
of your own life as a mother,

1084
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,440
complete control over your children

1085
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:31,040
and your future generations.

1086
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,320
# At the time of creation... #

1087
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:44,560
THEY CONTINUE SINGING

1088
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,600
- I believe that Jesus is the Son of
God

1089
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:58,280
and he died to take away my sin.

1090
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:00,360
And when I go under these waters,

1091
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:02,840
I'm going to come up a new creature.

1092
01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:06,640
- Amen. In the name of Jesus Christ,
we bury you.

1093
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:08,000
Hallelujah!

1094
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,160
- When you're in Gloriavale and you're
a child,

1095
01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:13,480
you're told that you owe your life to
Gloriavale.

1096
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:19,360
Are you driving?
- No. I'm driving.

1097
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:24,040
- Since I've left, I'm still finding
myself and who I am. 33 years old,

1098
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:25,520
and I'm thinking,

1099
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:30,080
I can figure this out, and I am
figuring it out.

1100
01:17:31,120 --> 01:17:33,560
Are you a bit scared?
- Yeah.

1101
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:34,920
- A bit scared.

1102
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:38,160
After I started having kids, you
realise, I don't actually

1103
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,440
have any control of these kids' lives.

1104
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:45,040
I'm their mother, but they're the
community's kids.

1105
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:47,000
- And there was a wishbone.

1106
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:51,120
- Good manners. I love that, you're so
cute!

1107
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:52,880
- Yeah...

1108
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:58,040
- I didn't want to bring up a girl to
live my life, what I had lived.

1109
01:17:58,040 --> 01:18:00,600
- A former resident of Gloriavale

1110
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,200
has given a damning assessment

1111
01:18:02,200 --> 01:18:03,480
of life in the commune.

1112
01:18:03,480 --> 01:18:04,920
- A former Gloriavale member says

1113
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:06,440
residents are brainwashed

1114
01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:08,320
from a young age, with women

1115
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:10,240
expected to cook, clean and sew

1116
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:12,200
for long hours, without taking breaks.

1117
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,080
- The allegations were made at an
employment court hearing,

1118
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:18,480
where it's being argued women there
are employees,

1119
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:21,480
not volunteers, as the leadership has
claimed.

1120
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,920
- Now, before you have got a written
brief, would you please

1121
01:18:23,920 --> 01:18:27,040
read your brief to Her Honour?

1122
01:18:27,040 --> 01:18:29,080
- I am one of the plaintiffs.

1123
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:31,560
I was born into the Gloriavale
community.

1124
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,080
I left high school at the age of 15.

1125
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:38,600
One day, Hopeful Christian just walked
into the classroom and said,

1126
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,440
"Right, we need more workers."

1127
01:18:41,440 --> 01:18:43,800
The whole grade finished school that
day.

1128
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:51,720
Our lives have been chosen from birth,

1129
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:55,840
and that's a big thing to deconstruct
when you leave.

1130
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,480
- Did you feel like a slave in there?

1131
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:02,280
- I wouldn't have said that when I was
in there, but looking back,

1132
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:04,240
knowing what I know,

1133
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,200
yes, we were slaves.

1134
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:13,240
- Hopeful knew he had young, fit, able
people at his disposal,

1135
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,240
and that's what set the scene for the
child labour.

1136
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:19,640
So the median age at Gloriavale is 12,

1137
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:23,240
and so you're looking at a very skewed
population.

1138
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:27,280
If those young people weren't there,
you wouldn't have

1139
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:30,200
all the asset growth and the base of
Gloriavale

1140
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:31,840
and the wealth they are sitting on.

1141
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:35,720
I'm not saying they're sitting on it
in their bank account.

1142
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:40,120
I'm saying they're sitting on an
assets upwards of 60 million.

1143
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,480
Without young labour,

1144
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:45,560
their business model would have
collapsed decades ago.

1145
01:19:48,160 --> 01:19:52,360
- My job is to make sure the freezers
are organised, clean and tidy.

1146
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:54,960
I agree it is not always an easy job,

1147
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:56,800
it can be tiring and strenuous,

1148
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:00,240
but there is a joy of giving and
fulfilling, and exactly the place

1149
01:20:00,240 --> 01:20:02,640
I am needed and where I believe God
wants me.

1150
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,000
- At one stage, I did become
dissatisfied with life

1151
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:09,840
because I could not feel the
satisfaction and joy that I saw

1152
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:12,160
in the lives of my parents and the
leaders.

1153
01:20:12,160 --> 01:20:14,800
But I decided to read my Bible and
follow it.

1154
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:18,240
- I did have questions about the whys
of Gloriavale life.

1155
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:20,680
It wasn't easy and I didn't love

1156
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:24,120
the life I had. As I read the Bible
and what we believe,

1157
01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:28,040
I came to a greater understanding of
the fundamental principle

1158
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,360
that this community life was based on.

1159
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:34,000
- Being happy isn't really their goal
in life.

1160
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,400
Their goal is to suffer for Christ.

1161
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:41,880
I'm going to deny myself anything that
looks like sort of pleasure.

1162
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,400
I need to be giving and serving all
the time,

1163
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,680
and so to even enjoy yourself

1164
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,080
is seen as sinful

1165
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:53,280
because our reward is in Heaven.

1166
01:20:54,520 --> 01:21:01,400
- So, you are looking for a reward in
Heaven, that's your evidence?

1167
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:04,200
- Well, the Lord's promised me one.

1168
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:13,680
- I suggest to you that you were happy
working at Gloriavale, and it's only

1169
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:16,400
subsequently, after you have left
Gloriavale,

1170
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,840
that you are now recasting what your
views were.

1171
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:22,360
- I disagree.

1172
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:26,280
Um, being happy in Gloriavale...

1173
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:29,960
..is a facade.

1174
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:33,960
It's a coping mechanism. On the
contrary...

1175
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,080
..how I actually felt

1176
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,040
and how I could not tell anybody that
I felt...

1177
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:54,840
..I was going to commit suicide,
because I thought that

1178
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:59,760
it'd be better to burn in hell than
leave Gloriavale.

1179
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,400
- Distressing testimony came from
Gloriavale leavers,

1180
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:09,000
whose treatment left them feeling
enslaved and trapped and suicidal.

1181
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:12,720
Yet a procession of Gloriavale women
denied working under the whip

1182
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:16,360
of its leaders, accusing the
plaintiffs of making misleading,

1183
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,320
distorted and exaggerated claims about
life at the commune.

1184
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,600
They weren't brainwashed, downtrodden,
subjugated

1185
01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:26,080
or worked off their feet

1186
01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:30,800
and weren't forced to do anything
against their will, the women said.

1187
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:33,640
So-called slave labour was simply a
labour of love...

1188
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:40,360
- Hey, Dave. How's it going, boy?

1189
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:42,920
Hey. Aw! How's it going, mate?

1190
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,760
G'day.
- Is it eggs and lemons?
- Yeah, yeah.

1191
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,120
All right?

1192
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:09,440
- Obviously, Tabitha went back to the
court case again to observe.

1193
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:11,600
- Yeah, she was there for two days,
too.
- Yeah.

1194
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,560
Did that unsettle her more?

1195
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:17,720
- Yeah, I think she's actually sort of
like seeing that

1196
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,480
people in Gloriavale, I think, and the
ex-members

1197
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:22,760
are showing it all from one side,

1198
01:23:22,760 --> 01:23:25,760
so it's like they feel like they have
to counteract it

1199
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:28,160
by going right to the other end of the
scale

1200
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:29,960
to try and pull it back their way.

1201
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:33,600
- So, with that, is it making her
think, is it time to pack up

1202
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:39,840
and leave, or is she still holding out
for a breakthrough somewhere,

1203
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,080
a total change in leadership?

1204
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,320
- Um, I would say that would kind of
probably come first.

1205
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:48,480
Yeah, she'd be like, probably more,

1206
01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:52,040
"I'd be hoping it would change, so
that we didn't have to."

1207
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:56,600
- If she sees you actually starting to
put things in place

1208
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,920
and you've got a plan, she will have
way more confidence than even

1209
01:23:59,920 --> 01:24:02,480
allowing her thoughts to go down

1210
01:24:02,480 --> 01:24:05,320
the track of...
- Yeah, true.
- ..OK, what happens if we leave?

1211
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:08,800
But if you're in limbo and you're just
hanging around,

1212
01:24:08,800 --> 01:24:12,640
then she needs to, by default, fall
onto where her security is.

1213
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:17,440
- Yeah, true.
- I mean, she's 20, 21 weeks pregnant,
so she needs it,

1214
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:18,840
security, massively.

1215
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:24,600
- You guys don't have a direct,
upfront conversation.

1216
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,720
Everything is done in sort of code...
- Yeah.
- ..because you wouldn't

1217
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:31,200
trust her with personal stuff, because
she might tell the leaders.

1218
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:35,440
So this game play that's been going on
in your whole married life...

1219
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:38,480
- Yeah.
- ..you've got to change that now.

1220
01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:41,800
- It's like, you know, you're married,
but there's always...

1221
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:45,040
It's like, you know, you're standing
there, but the leaders are still

1222
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:48,280
in-between you. You can see each
other, but they're still there.

1223
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:53,040
- The leaders are the ultimate
authority in your marriage.

1224
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,200
In the marriage vow,

1225
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:57,920
the wife states on the wedding day,

1226
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,880
"I promise to love and obey you...

1227
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,080
"..as long as...

1228
01:25:06,640 --> 01:25:08,760
"..you obey the leaders."

1229
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:13,360
After many conversations, I started to
become aware that

1230
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:16,360
you control the men through the wife,

1231
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:20,480
and the wives through their children,
through salvation.

1232
01:25:20,480 --> 01:25:23,400
When you get born into Gloriavale,

1233
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,120
you don't have a choice.

1234
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:27,400
You're taught never to question.

1235
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:29,680
And so that complete authority

1236
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:33,240
leads to a very controlling,

1237
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:35,480
very damaging environment.

1238
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:43,200
- You start wearing a headscarf at the
age of five.

1239
01:25:45,160 --> 01:25:47,800
- We had to keep our heads covered

1240
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,560
to show that we were submissive

1241
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:55,080
and meek and quiet, and for showing

1242
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:58,160
that we weren't trying to seduce men.

1243
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,880
- So there's, like, a few things that
I brought out with me,

1244
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:12,040
like, when I left. I managed to sneak
my scarf,

1245
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:15,880
which has still got my old name on it,
Honey Faithful.

1246
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:20,680
Well, Honey F. So everyone's clothes
gets labelled like this.

1247
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:23,320
It's probably one of the first things
you learn to sew.

1248
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:26,720
You start sewing at, like. nine,
maybe.

1249
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,080
What else have I got?

1250
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:31,600
These are some of the photos

1251
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:34,960
that I grabbed out of our family photo
album.

1252
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:39,480
I really like this one,

1253
01:26:39,480 --> 01:26:42,320
mainly because I'm on a tractor, and
girls

1254
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:45,960
weren't allowed to do boys' things, so
I always like that

1255
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,920
SHE LAUGHS
I was on a tractor.

1256
01:26:52,440 --> 01:26:54,960
CHILDREN YELLING AND PLAYING

1257
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:57,440
Boys and girls are kept very separate.

1258
01:26:57,440 --> 01:27:00,920
When you leave school at 15, you're
not allowed to talk to

1259
01:27:00,920 --> 01:27:02,480
the young men or, like,

1260
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:04,880
have anything to do with them.

1261
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,440
Like, I got pulled into a meeting

1262
01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:09,360
because I was talking to my cousin,

1263
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:12,240
and they thought we were having a
relationship.

1264
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,560
- You're passing the same people every
day.

1265
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:18,080
You're living in the same hostels with
them,

1266
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:20,520
you're eating at the same table as
them,

1267
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:22,360
but you're not to talk to them.

1268
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:26,560
So you know them from just observing,
really.

1269
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,160
And I guess you know your sisters,

1270
01:27:28,160 --> 01:27:32,320
and so you hear stuff, but you
shouldn't ever be alone together.

1271
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:37,440
But the other side to that was there
was a lot of sexual talk

1272
01:27:37,440 --> 01:27:42,360
just in the normal daily happenings at
Gloriavale.

1273
01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:47,920
- Colin, you have to tell us what
happened.
- Ah...

1274
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:51,400
- It was a bit weird, like, some
people were quite out in the open

1275
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,520
about their sex life,

1276
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,160
and certain people in there

1277
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:59,520
would have quite radical views around
sex and talk freely about it.

1278
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:02,160
- ANIMATED CHATTER

1279
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:05,520
It was hard to tell what...

1280
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:08,080
- It's not really breakfast material,

1281
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:12,160
but, yeah, talking about different
types of sex and...

1282
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:16,080
Yeah, positions and everything, and
I'm eight and nine and I'm...

1283
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,280
That's what you're exposed to.

1284
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,320
And in a really close community like
Gloriavale,

1285
01:28:23,320 --> 01:28:25,280
you just can't escape it.

1286
01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:27,640
- If you did it all day...
- Oh!

1287
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,720
- I suppose growing up in there, you
don't really know

1288
01:28:30,720 --> 01:28:33,520
what is acceptable behaviour, but...

1289
01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:37,240
..I was always glad I wasn't a girl

1290
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:41,800
because the sex culture was terrible.

1291
01:28:44,920 --> 01:28:48,080
- Hopeful talked all the time about,
you know, men get turned on

1292
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:51,480
by elbows, so don't pull your sleeves
up.

1293
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:55,560
So, the girls are responsible for
tempting the men,

1294
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:57,480
and they actually tell the guys that,
too.

1295
01:28:57,480 --> 01:29:00,520
You can't help yourselves. You girls,
you can say no.

1296
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,320
You can stop it happening. Guys, once
it's on,

1297
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:05,720
once you've tempted them, they can't
stop it.

1298
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,160
And so you've got boys growing up
thinking that

1299
01:29:09,160 --> 01:29:11,880
they can do whatever they like.

1300
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:14,120
And then you've got girls growing up
thinking,

1301
01:29:14,120 --> 01:29:17,600
if something happens to me, it's my
fault.

1302
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:21,720
And so then, not going and getting
help because effectively,

1303
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:24,200
they're telling someone how bad they
are.

1304
01:29:28,200 --> 01:29:33,000
The leaders quite often would flick
your bra strap, undo your belt...

1305
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:34,400
LAUGHTER

1306
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,600
..or wrap their arms around your
waist.

1307
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,080
Or if you're standing at the table
serving them,

1308
01:29:41,080 --> 01:29:43,520
they'll pull you in and rub your legs
up and down.

1309
01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:47,720
Hopeful was definitely the worst.

1310
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:49,800
Howard Temple was bad as well.

1311
01:29:52,680 --> 01:29:54,960
And Howard and Hopeful doing that,

1312
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:59,960
that's saying to the other guys, this
is OK, and they do it, too.

1313
01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:05,400
- I never remember Hopeful or Howard

1314
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:07,800
giving me inappropriate cuddles, etc.

1315
01:30:07,800 --> 01:30:11,480
I felt loved and cared for in an
acceptable way.

1316
01:30:11,480 --> 01:30:15,640
Rosanna never told me, or even hinted
that she hated the affection

1317
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:18,280
shown to her. I always thought that

1318
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:21,040
she loved the well-meant attention.

1319
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,640
She did not act like it was a problem.

1320
01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:30,360
- I have not felt sexually threatened
by any of the leaders.

1321
01:30:30,360 --> 01:30:32,160
On the contrary, I would feel

1322
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:35,000
safest with those men of God, who give
their lives to

1323
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:38,120
the people of the church and
community.
- Miss Steadfast,

1324
01:30:38,120 --> 01:30:40,480
you just inserted a word there.

1325
01:30:40,480 --> 01:30:44,080
- Sorry.
- No, no, don't apologise, because it
may be that

1326
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:45,640
you want to insert that word.

1327
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,720
So you said, "I've not..." In your
brief, you say,

1328
01:30:48,720 --> 01:30:52,000
"I have not felt threatened by any of
the leaders."

1329
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:56,760
And when you spoke, I think you
inserted the word "sexually".

1330
01:30:56,760 --> 01:31:00,440
- Um, my brief says "sexually".

1331
01:31:02,040 --> 01:31:04,720
I think I wrote that.

1332
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:09,000
- And it's your evidence, so that's
absolutely fine. Thank you.

1333
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,400
- I don't think there's any family in
Gloriavale that hasn't either

1334
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,200
been the victim or an offender.

1335
01:31:22,480 --> 01:31:26,200
I was seven when I was first abused.

1336
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,120
I was, by one of my own family
members,

1337
01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:34,720
sexually abused from quite a young
age.

1338
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:37,800
Probably around seven or eight.

1339
01:31:39,200 --> 01:31:41,280
No-one had any idea.

1340
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:48,280
- I had sexually abusive things happen
to me.

1341
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,600
I couldn't tell anyone because I
couldn't trust anybody.

1342
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:59,840
It really changed me.

1343
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:06,920
I just encased myself with anger,

1344
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:10,440
with being tough,

1345
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:12,280
to try and hide,

1346
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,520
yeah, like, the pain.

1347
01:32:17,120 --> 01:32:21,840
I came out one night to Marcus's place
and he said,

1348
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,040
"Look, you need to get help."

1349
01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:30,120
And I was like, "And what's that? What
is help?"

1350
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:32,200
I didn't know what help was...

1351
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:36,160
..because I'd never been given it my
whole life.

1352
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,000
- So, these are the cases that have
been through the courts.

1353
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:46,360
- Oh...

1354
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,840
The charge was indecently assaulting a
nine-year-old girl

1355
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:54,280
and sentenced to six months community
detention.

1356
01:32:54,280 --> 01:32:57,560
Sexual Offending Youth Court. Finished
through the courts,

1357
01:32:57,560 --> 01:32:59,160
and free of conditions.

1358
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:02,680
38 charges, including rape, sexual
violation and indecent assault.

1359
01:33:02,680 --> 01:33:07,960
Seven counts against young people...
Five counts, 14 counts.

1360
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:11,400
If you actually count up the number of
people,

1361
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,160
there's bloody heaps of them.

1362
01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:18,360
All this abuse, there's just so much
of it, it makes me feel sick.

1363
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,480
- Sin and lust are everywhere.

1364
01:33:21,480 --> 01:33:23,680
So, yes, in our ignorance,

1365
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,000
in our desire to be merciful, loving
and forgiving,

1366
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:29,160
there have been perverts among us.

1367
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:33,000
But I have never heard it, heard
sexual immorality

1368
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:35,920
encouraged, condoned or taught.

1369
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:43,400
- Young men and young women develop
sexually, physically,

1370
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:46,160
when, say, they're 13, 14,

1371
01:33:46,160 --> 01:33:50,960
but yet, in society, they didn't get
married well into their 20s.

1372
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:55,400
Society says, "Oh, well, we'll let the
young people fornicate."

1373
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:58,680
And we say, "No, they should be
married."

1374
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,480
- That super-strict

1375
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:05,880
morality is often just a cover

1376
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:07,640
for something darker.

1377
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:13,360
My dad believed that premarital sex

1378
01:34:13,360 --> 01:34:15,880
was such a sin and such a shame,

1379
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:19,840
and he didn't teach men to control
themselves.

1380
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,240
So, he had, um,

1381
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:24,480
the young people married off.

1382
01:34:24,480 --> 01:34:28,480
- # There ain't no rules I'll disobey

1383
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:32,240
# Except the one that says I'm free to
go my way... #

1384
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:39,400
- When the girls were clearing the
tables one day after breakfast,

1385
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:43,240
we saw this sheet of paper at
Hopeful's place, at the table.

1386
01:34:50,720 --> 01:34:53,120
It had all the boys' names

1387
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:55,800
and all the girls' names on the other
side.

1388
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:57,840
- # Tomorrow, I will take the vow... #

1389
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:02,440
- I can remember actually being quite
shocked that Hopeful

1390
01:35:02,440 --> 01:35:06,320
had down to two-year-olds matched up.

1391
01:35:06,320 --> 01:35:11,200
But he did used to say all the time
too that it was his responsibility,

1392
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:15,520
as the leader, to make sure the
bloodlines weren't mixed up.

1393
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,800
- There's me. I'm here.

1394
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:20,960
- THEY TALK OVER EACH OTHER

1395
01:35:20,960 --> 01:35:22,080
- Hey!

1396
01:35:26,080 --> 01:35:30,240
- Some of us didn't get to see, but I
knew that I was on the list,

1397
01:35:30,240 --> 01:35:31,920
and I was terrified,

1398
01:35:31,920 --> 01:35:35,080
but I knew that I'd have to say yes,
like I knew that I'd have no choice.

1399
01:35:37,240 --> 01:35:39,360
- Getting married in Gloriavale,

1400
01:35:39,360 --> 01:35:42,440
it is an arranged marriage.

1401
01:35:43,480 --> 01:35:46,760
I went and approached Hopeful and said
that I'd like to get married,

1402
01:35:46,760 --> 01:35:49,360
and he was like, "Yep, OK.

1403
01:35:49,360 --> 01:35:51,600
"So what do you think about marrying
Tabitha?"

1404
01:35:53,360 --> 01:35:55,440
I was just like...

1405
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:57,240
I don't even know what to say.

1406
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:02,160
It's like she didn't even exist up
until this point.

1407
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:06,200
So we talked a bit about, you know,
just doing God's will and that

1408
01:36:06,200 --> 01:36:08,600
and being happy with things, you know,

1409
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:10,960
and that they had to consider
bloodlines

1410
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:12,720
and all that sort of thing.

1411
01:36:12,720 --> 01:36:16,320
And I'm like, "Uh... Yeah.

1412
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:18,000
"OK."

1413
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,840
- This one is Tabitha's wedding,

1414
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,360
wedding day.

1415
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:32,800
We look quite similar, and we would
get mixed up as being twins,

1416
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:35,240
but our personalities are quite
different.

1417
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:39,960
I'm very, like, strong-willed, and
she'll just, like, do whatever.

1418
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,760
Even though I wanted to have kids,

1419
01:36:42,760 --> 01:36:47,760
I didn't want to be married to any of
the men in Gloriavale,

1420
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,720
and I didn't want to be told who I had
to marry.

1421
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,840
- I actually thought that they'd make
me marry this guy,

1422
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:56,680
and I actually couldn't stand him.

1423
01:36:56,680 --> 01:37:00,280
And I knew that both him and Elijah
had gone to ask Hopeful

1424
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:03,240
if they could get married. Just the
whispers,

1425
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:07,080
the rumours go around. And I just
remember praying one night to God

1426
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:10,400
and actually saying, "Please don't
make me marry this guy.

1427
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:13,040
"I can't stand him. I want to marry
Elijah."

1428
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:16,480
I loved how he treated

1429
01:37:16,480 --> 01:37:18,240
his mum and his sisters.

1430
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:21,040
Yeah, and I just thought he was cool.

1431
01:37:21,040 --> 01:37:23,600
- SHE LAUGHS
He had a cool walk.

1432
01:37:24,920 --> 01:37:27,000
- A week later, Elijah asked

1433
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:29,040
my dad if he could marry me,

1434
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:32,200
and the relief, the utter relief I
felt.

1435
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,240
- When God created Adam,

1436
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:45,920
he was alone.

1437
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:48,440
He said, it's not good for man to be
alone...

1438
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:51,920
..so he created...

1439
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:53,360
- Amen.

1440
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:55,520
- I was really happy to marry Rosie.

1441
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:57,960
But apart from being attractive

1442
01:37:57,960 --> 01:37:59,560
and an all-round good girl,

1443
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:01,040
I didn't really know her that well.

1444
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:03,280
- I know that you're a servant of God

1445
01:38:03,280 --> 01:38:05,000
and you obey His word,

1446
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:07,840
so I can easily submit myself to you
and trust

1447
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:09,720
the decisions you make.

1448
01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:12,320
And I'll love all your children,

1449
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:14,920
and gladly give myself as a Christian
mother

1450
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:18,000
to raise them. I love you,

1451
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:20,320
and I promise to make a union.

1452
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:26,240
- # In this world of sin and sorrow

1453
01:38:26,240 --> 01:38:30,480
# When men's hearts fell for fear

1454
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:34,120
# We have hope and blessed
assurance... #

1455
01:38:34,120 --> 01:38:36,880
- We, as men, have been given
authority,

1456
01:38:36,880 --> 01:38:38,800
we've been given leadership.

1457
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:44,440
We want strong women,

1458
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:47,760
but women who will get behind their
husbands.

1459
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:51,680
Strong Rosie,

1460
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,080
use that strength to get behind him.

1461
01:38:54,080 --> 01:38:55,480
- Amen.

1462
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:00,880
- Once you're married, you're expected
to have children straight away.

1463
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:06,120
A lot of the woman's value is in,
yeah, how many kids she has

1464
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:08,080
and how well she has them.

1465
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,800
If you're getting pregnant and having
kids fast,

1466
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:13,000
then God's blessing you.

1467
01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:15,400
And if you're not, then what are you
doing wrong?

1468
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:21,080
You can... You can say hello to Kim.
You look better than Mum.

1469
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:22,640
- Hey, sis.

1470
01:39:27,440 --> 01:39:31,280
- My kids came pretty soon afterwards.

1471
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:33,640
My first five are actually

1472
01:39:33,640 --> 01:39:37,280
within five years, and three months,
and none of them are twins.

1473
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:41,480
- Yeah... Yeah.

1474
01:39:41,480 --> 01:39:43,480
- Honey, be gentle.

1475
01:39:43,480 --> 01:39:44,960
- Yeah.

1476
01:39:44,960 --> 01:39:48,920
- The first turning point for us was
actually when I had Honour.

1477
01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:51,640
- Oh, here we go!

1478
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:55,960
Beauty.
- Love you, too.
- Mm.

1479
01:39:55,960 --> 01:40:00,840
Look at that beautiful face right up
close.

1480
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:02,480
Big smile.

1481
01:40:02,480 --> 01:40:04,080
And there goes the loudmouth.

1482
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:05,880
BABY CRIES

1483
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:08,000
- Yum-yum-yum!

1484
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,760
I remember looking at her

1485
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:11,400
in the cot and thinking,

1486
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,200
"She's not safe here."

1487
01:40:14,440 --> 01:40:18,160
On my husband's part, as a dad, he's
thinking about his kids

1488
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:22,560
and, you know, is this the place I
want my kids to grow up in?

1489
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:26,800
But we still thought that it was the
only place we could raise them.

1490
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,280
So then we thought, "Well, we've got
to, you know,

1491
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:32,040
"start making some changes and make
this place safe."

1492
01:40:36,160 --> 01:40:38,640
- I still believed in Gloriavale.

1493
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:42,760
But then I talked to one of Hopeful's
sons,

1494
01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,000
who'd been kicked out,

1495
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:48,400
and he told me that his dad

1496
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:52,280
was put in prison for sexual abuse

1497
01:40:52,280 --> 01:40:55,920
on young girls, and that was it,

1498
01:40:55,920 --> 01:40:58,000
like, I just had seen enough.

1499
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:01,320
I knew there had to be something a lot
better than Gloriavale,

1500
01:41:01,320 --> 01:41:04,120
because the way they operated wasn't
right.

1501
01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:12,320
It was a rainy day. It was lunchtime.

1502
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,880
I walked up to Hopeful.

1503
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:17,840
I was very nervous, and I said,

1504
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:21,320
"Hopeful, there's a few questions that
I'd like to ask you.

1505
01:41:21,320 --> 01:41:25,000
"They're quite serious questions.
Could we go somewhere private?"

1506
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:26,560
So we jumped in the car.

1507
01:41:29,240 --> 01:41:32,400
I said to him, "Why are you our
leader? Why are you our

1508
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:35,800
"representative when you've got
criminal convictions?",

1509
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:39,120
and he just got angry at me.

1510
01:41:39,120 --> 01:41:40,960
- I will not listen to you!

1511
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:43,040
- He didn't deny anything.

1512
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:46,720
He never answered whether it was true
or not.

1513
01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:49,720
He didn't want to listen, or talk, or
explain anything.

1514
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:54,000
- Hopeful came bursting in and said,
"Your husband's made a big mess

1515
01:41:54,000 --> 01:41:56,720
"and he's brought the law,

1516
01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:58,720
"and the police is here to take your
kids off you.

1517
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:00,760
"You need to go and tell him to go
away

1518
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:02,960
"and we can calm this situation down."

1519
01:42:04,440 --> 01:42:07,000
I was so scared. I was so scared that

1520
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:09,200
they were going to take my kids off
me. I didn't know why.

1521
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:11,160
- ANGRY SHOUTING

1522
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:13,240
- I couldn't see any police,

1523
01:42:13,240 --> 01:42:16,200
and the whole community was out the
front.

1524
01:42:16,200 --> 01:42:19,000
- ANGRY SHOUTING

1525
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,320
- Get out! You are not welcome here!
Be gone!

1526
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:25,400
- Elijah was wild. I'd never seen him
like that before.

1527
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:28,320
- Sinner, you don't have a family any
more!

1528
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:32,080
I put the devil in you!

1529
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:34,360
- I'm running around screaming.

1530
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:36,960
I don't want this to be the last time
I ever see my wife and kids.

1531
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:38,520
- Get out! The devil is in you!

1532
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:41,880
- We ran to each other and Hopeful
walked straight up to us

1533
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:44,240
and pulled us apart. He was like,

1534
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:45,400
"You don't love each other.

1535
01:42:45,400 --> 01:42:47,240
"This man's an evil man

1536
01:42:47,240 --> 01:42:50,400
"and you are not bound to be with him
ever again."

1537
01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:55,480
- They ended up just picking me up and
carrying me out.

1538
01:42:55,480 --> 01:42:58,800
The next thing I knew, they'd flown
her out of there.

1539
01:43:01,280 --> 01:43:04,760
I didn't see my family for six weeks
after that.

1540
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:12,440
- I can't really remember thinking
much until I realised

1541
01:43:12,440 --> 01:43:15,280
that we'd been flying up the coast,
that I'd seen the coastline

1542
01:43:15,280 --> 01:43:18,600
for ages, and I couldn't see
Gloriavale.

1543
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:21,560
And I said to the pilot, "Where are we
going?"

1544
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:24,720
He said, "Don't worry about it. You
don't... You don't need to be

1545
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:26,720
"bothered with these things. We'll
look after you.

1546
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:29,840
"We care about you, even though your
husband doesn't."

1547
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:34,320
They said Elijah had been caught in an
affair with an outside woman,

1548
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:37,200
that one of the Gloriavale men had
found him.

1549
01:43:38,360 --> 01:43:42,080
I was just extremely confused. Um...

1550
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:48,000
I loved him a lot, and I couldn't...

1551
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:51,480
I couldn't see living without him,
like, as an option.

1552
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:59,240
- It was six weeks.
- BABY CRIES

1553
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:01,920
Yeah, we were just, we're in hiding.

1554
01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:05,960
We had to get new clothes.

1555
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:09,000
We had to change our names.

1556
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:10,560
What does it say?

1557
01:44:13,480 --> 01:44:15,880
I didn't know what to do. I didn't
know where to go.

1558
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:17,920
I didn't know I could call the police.

1559
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:24,360
And so, I just decided that God would
have to work a miracle

1560
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:28,760
because I didn't know what to do.

1561
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:33,880
- MOBILE PHONE RINGS

1562
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:37,320
- I still remember hearing the phone
ring in Dad's bag.

1563
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:45,880
I got the phone, I said "Hi,"

1564
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:50,560
and the voice on the other end of the
phone said, "I've got you."

1565
01:44:52,480 --> 01:44:54,480
He told me that Hopeful went to
jail...

1566
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:57,200
..for sexual abuse.

1567
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:01,480
As soon as he told me that,

1568
01:45:01,480 --> 01:45:03,400
I felt like it was the truth.

1569
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:06,360
It felt like it connected all the last
dots for me.

1570
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:14,680
I actually remember thinking, "If the
leaders are lying to me

1571
01:45:14,680 --> 01:45:18,240
"about this stuff, what else is a
lie?"

1572
01:45:18,240 --> 01:45:20,400
Like, "How much more of my life is a
lie?"

1573
01:45:35,160 --> 01:45:36,640
So pretty!

1574
01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:41,760
It's even got my name on it. See?

1575
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:47,840
There we go.

1576
01:45:47,840 --> 01:45:50,120
My old life, in all its glory!

1577
01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:55,320
Oh, wow!

1578
01:45:56,640 --> 01:46:00,760
These are all letters from after we
left Gloriavale,

1579
01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:03,040
and this is probably only half of
them.

1580
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:07,080
The rest of them went straight in the
fire before they were read.

1581
01:46:09,480 --> 01:46:12,520
Here we go. "Elijah and Rosanna,

1582
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:16,600
"I will attempt to explain to you why
I have made a stand against you.

1583
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:19,400
"Pride has been the sin that has done
the damage.

1584
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:20,600
"You've been covetous.

1585
01:46:20,600 --> 01:46:23,160
"How much do you love the things of
this world?

1586
01:46:23,160 --> 01:46:27,840
"You're boasters, proud, blasphemers,
disobedient to parents,

1587
01:46:27,840 --> 01:46:30,240
"unthankful, false accusers,

1588
01:46:30,240 --> 01:46:33,240
"despisers of those that are good,

1589
01:46:33,240 --> 01:46:34,960
"traitors.

1590
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:36,520
"I believe that the devil came along

1591
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:38,960
"and sowed doubts and fears in your
minds,

1592
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:40,880
"and has robbed you of your faith.

1593
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:43,000
"Your children's lives will be
affected.

1594
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:44,560
"Their spirits will become lean

1595
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:45,960
"and, eventually, they will die.

1596
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:47,720
"When will you wake up?"

1597
01:46:52,000 --> 01:46:55,400
Now, I can see through them.

1598
01:46:55,400 --> 01:46:58,880
At the time, when we were getting
them,

1599
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:02,920
really hard to read. And a lot, I
couldn't read them,

1600
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:06,960
or I'd cry or get angry.

1601
01:47:09,200 --> 01:47:11,520
- All right. Come on, Steve,

1602
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:12,960
Come on, Muscles.

1603
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:17,360
Ah!
- Awesome, Steve!
- Here, here!

1604
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:21,360
Let's get Mum out.
SHE LAUGHS

1605
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:22,880
- Get Mum out!

1606
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:27,320
Oh, no!

1607
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:29,880
- Out.

1608
01:47:29,880 --> 01:47:31,680
THEY LAUGH

1609
01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:38,880
- Hopeful Christian, founder of the
Gloriavale commune

1610
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:43,440
and convicted sex offender, has died
of cancer at the age of 92.

1611
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:46,320
- He built Gloriavale

1612
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:48,080
on a foundation of privacy.

1613
01:47:48,080 --> 01:47:51,680
The commune won't even confirm his
death.

1614
01:47:59,520 --> 01:48:04,320
- I was aware that my dad was quite
sick and that he was likely to die.

1615
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:09,320
I realised that there was no way

1616
01:48:09,320 --> 01:48:13,080
I was probably going to get to say
goodbye to him in any,

1617
01:48:13,080 --> 01:48:15,080
you know, nice fashion.

1618
01:48:16,480 --> 01:48:17,920
I felt sad.

1619
01:48:19,160 --> 01:48:21,720
I felt sad that, you know, um...

1620
01:48:23,440 --> 01:48:29,600
Uh, yeah, I mean, I felt sad and
relieved, OK?

1621
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:32,200
One moment, I'd be angry.

1622
01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:34,040
The next moment, I was relieved.

1623
01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:37,200
The next moment, I was crying.

1624
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:38,560
Yeah.

1625
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:40,160
- Hallelujah!

1626
01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:42,360
- It would have been really nice that,

1627
01:48:42,360 --> 01:48:45,240
you know, we could have parted,

1628
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:47,680
you know, him realising that I wasn't
his enemy,

1629
01:48:47,680 --> 01:48:49,640
that I actually cared about him.

1630
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:53,840
Yeah, it wasn't to be.

1631
01:48:56,000 --> 01:48:58,200
- And you believe that it's God's Son

1632
01:48:58,200 --> 01:48:59,880
that died on the cross for your
sins...

1633
01:49:03,280 --> 01:49:10,720
- Um, it would be, "Look, Dad, even
though you didn't think so,

1634
01:49:10,720 --> 01:49:13,000
"I did my best to love you."

1635
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:16,080
Mm.

1636
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:30,040
Now you're bringing back, um, emotions
into the picture.

1637
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:35,240
I haven't had that emotion over Dad
for a long time.

1638
01:49:35,240 --> 01:49:39,840
So, you know, memories bring back
those sort of things to you.

1639
01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:54,960
- A closed community closing ranks
even further on what's believed

1640
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,000
to be the day of their leader's
funeral,

1641
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,800
just one day after 92-year-old Hopeful
Christian

1642
01:50:00,800 --> 01:50:03,160
is reported to have died.

1643
01:50:04,400 --> 01:50:07,760
- The funeral was had, like, the very
next day.

1644
01:50:07,760 --> 01:50:10,320
And when I rang up about it,

1645
01:50:10,320 --> 01:50:12,760
it was definitely done in such a way

1646
01:50:12,760 --> 01:50:17,840
to make sure none of his rejected
children turned up at his funeral.

1647
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:23,000
# The altar lays bare bloodstained
shrines

1648
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:25,680
# Once glistening groves full of
disquiet

1649
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:27,120
# We forge the frontier

1650
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:28,720
# Spring thought our sighs

1651
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:32,600
# Man, we bought the love psyche

1652
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:36,600
# Nothing imaginable was missing

1653
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,480
# The outcome was unordained

1654
01:50:39,480 --> 01:50:40,880
# The voices you hear

1655
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:45,400
# Are your handmaids performing unseen
for you...

1656
01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:53,440
# Sailing

1657
01:50:53,440 --> 01:50:57,520
# Sailing under bright stars

1658
01:51:01,160 --> 01:51:03,880
# Who are we?

1659
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:06,920
# Who are we, in this light? #

1660
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:10,520
- We went down to the graveyard.

1661
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:14,040
There's lots of people around crying
that he had died.

1662
01:51:14,040 --> 01:51:18,840
But I don't think I really actually
felt anything.

1663
01:51:21,880 --> 01:51:26,360
I think a lot of that has to do with
all that pain and hurt.

1664
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:30,320
Like, it's like I taught myself to
feel nothing.

1665
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:35,160
- Growing up, you just thought he was
always going to be alive.

1666
01:51:35,160 --> 01:51:39,320
Like, everyone thought he was
invincible and that God would

1667
01:51:39,320 --> 01:51:42,960
come back before he would die, so it
was like a weird feeling.

1668
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:44,720
It was like, what was going to happen?

1669
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:46,360
- It even came out in the news,

1670
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:48,240
you know, who's going to be the new
leader?

1671
01:51:49,960 --> 01:51:51,800
- The Gloriavale Christian community

1672
01:51:51,800 --> 01:51:54,040
could be at a significant crossroads.

1673
01:51:54,040 --> 01:51:57,480
- Big questions remain about who will
take over from Hopeful Christian,

1674
01:51:57,480 --> 01:52:01,080
who will be the next to lead
Gloriavale, and whether, indeed,

1675
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,480
it can survive without their
charismatic

1676
01:52:04,480 --> 01:52:07,520
spiritual, but flawed, leader.

1677
01:52:13,640 --> 01:52:17,160
- # There ain't no rules I'll disobey

1678
01:52:17,160 --> 01:52:18,920
# Except the one that says

1679
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:21,240
# I'm free to go my own way

1680
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:28,760
# Tomorrow, I will take the vow

1681
01:52:28,760 --> 01:52:30,640
# Tonight, my heart begins

1682
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:34,400
# To howl... #

1683
01:52:57,340 --> 01:52:58,960
Probably from the age of 14,

1684
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:02,280
I knew that I wasn't going to live
there forever.

1685
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:07,240
I could never imagine myself being
married to someone

1686
01:53:07,240 --> 01:53:09,080
I didn't choose to marry.

1687
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:17,240
Women are, like, the men's objects for sex.

1688
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:21,240
That was always something in the back
of my head

1689
01:53:21,240 --> 01:53:23,800
I was really, like, scared of.

1690
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:25,760
LAUGHTER

1691
01:53:27,400 --> 01:53:30,240
When I was 18, the pressure came.

1692
01:53:30,240 --> 01:53:32,240
They gave me an ultimatum:

1693
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,880
sign the commitment and get married or leave.

1694
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:42,080
I said no, and so straight away they
sent me to my room.

1695
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:48,280
I had to change out of the Gloriavale dress.

1696
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:58,240
I knew once I left

1697
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:01,560
I never was going to see my family again.

1698
01:54:01,560 --> 01:54:05,200
And my mum said to me, "You're going to hell."

1699
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:09,480
I'd never been on a bus or anything like that.

1700
01:54:09,480 --> 01:54:11,360
I didn't even know what a bus stop was.

1701
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:16,160
I knew that the outside existed,

1702
01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:18,720
but I didn't know the extent of the
outside.

1703
01:54:29,240 --> 01:54:33,400
- # When you come, I'll follow you

1704
01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:35,280
# I'll follow you. #

1705
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:41,240
- REPORTER:
- Hopeful Christian, founder of the
Gloriavale commune

1706
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:44,600
and convicted sex offender, has died
of cancer at the age of 92.

1707
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:46,840
- The group, now numbering 600,

1708
01:54:46,840 --> 01:54:49,440
are without their Overseeing Shepherd
for the first time.

1709
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:51,920
- But will their leader's death bring
about the demise

1710
01:54:51,920 --> 01:54:53,640
of the community he built?

1711
01:55:11,240 --> 01:55:12,600
- Hopeful's died?

1712
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:16,520
We thought he was going to live
forever.

1713
01:55:16,520 --> 01:55:18,880
He always, like, made out that he was.

1714
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:26,600
He was probably a father figure to a
lot of people.

1715
01:55:27,920 --> 01:55:29,240
Rightly or wrongly.

1716
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,560
Just a lot of sadness and uncertainty

1717
01:55:34,560 --> 01:55:39,600
of where the community would go or
what was happening.

1718
01:55:41,920 --> 01:55:45,240
- That was a really bad time.

1719
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:49,520
It was really like someone had ripped
the engine off the boat

1720
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:51,240
and thrown it over,

1721
01:55:51,240 --> 01:55:54,560
and the boat was just drifting here
and there.

1722
01:55:54,560 --> 01:55:58,280
You know, there was a bit of unrest
there for a point of time.

1723
01:56:03,520 --> 01:56:06,560
- Before he died, my dad had trained
up

1724
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:09,040
a real loyal pack.

1725
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,160
I mean, I can only liken it to, like,

1726
01:56:11,160 --> 01:56:12,680
a really loyal pack of dogs.

1727
01:56:12,680 --> 01:56:13,920
- You're not welcome here.

1728
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:15,360
Men, I want you all to gather around.

1729
01:56:15,360 --> 01:56:16,560
- Please leave.

1730
01:56:16,560 --> 01:56:17,840
You are trespassing.

1731
01:56:17,840 --> 01:56:20,360
- Gather round, men. Gather round.
Gather round.

1732
01:56:22,600 --> 01:56:28,240
- Howard has been one of my dad's
disciples right from the start.

1733
01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:30,720
He was extremely loyal to him.

1734
01:56:31,760 --> 01:56:33,240
He was the one who learned the tricks

1735
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:34,800
of the trade the best.

1736
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:38,240
So he became the most qualified, in my
dad's opinion,

1737
01:56:38,240 --> 01:56:39,720
to take over.

1738
01:56:44,720 --> 01:56:49,080
- Howard Temple, the frail 82-year-old
leader of Gloriavale,

1739
01:56:49,080 --> 01:56:52,280
arriving at the employment court to
give evidence.

1740
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:56,320
- Thank you. My name is Howard Temple.

1741
01:56:57,360 --> 01:57:01,880
I became an Overseeing Shepherd in
May, 2018.

1742
01:57:01,880 --> 01:57:06,360
I took up this role on the passing of
Hopeful Christian.

1743
01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:09,240
I am an American citizen by birth.

1744
01:57:09,240 --> 01:57:11,920
I volunteered into the United States
Navy

1745
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:14,240
at 19 years old.

1746
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:16,280
I married a New Zealand girl,

1747
01:57:16,280 --> 01:57:19,240
and when my time was expired with the
navy,

1748
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:21,280
I was discharged in New Zealand.

1749
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:28,880
- At what stage did you join the
community with your wife?

1750
01:57:28,880 --> 01:57:30,520
- 1970.

1751
01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:32,360
- And so you would have been about 30
years old?

1752
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:33,840
- 30 years old.

1753
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:38,240
- Howard Temple's a nice, genuine sort
of a guy

1754
01:57:38,240 --> 01:57:39,720
that got caught up in the wrong thing

1755
01:57:39,720 --> 01:57:43,240
and trained by the wrong leader, and
is now in a position

1756
01:57:43,240 --> 01:57:46,120
believing things to be right that
aren't.

1757
01:57:46,120 --> 01:57:47,920
And, er...

1758
01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:54,360
And trying to lead people how he's
seen it modelled for him.

1759
01:57:54,360 --> 01:57:58,080
- The wife is joined to the man by the
law

1760
01:57:58,080 --> 01:58:00,680
so long as the man liveth.

1761
01:58:00,680 --> 01:58:04,240
- You have a very charismatic leader,
a very powerful leader,

1762
01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:08,920
and he passes on and the next person
has got to fill the shoes.

1763
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:17,560
And so he has to be very regulated and
very rule-focussed

1764
01:58:17,560 --> 01:58:20,240
to try and keep that order.

1765
01:58:20,240 --> 01:58:22,680
- What a wonderful God that we have.

1766
01:58:22,680 --> 01:58:23,920
- Amen.
- Amen.

1767
01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:26,440
- Howard is really good at playing the
nice guy

1768
01:58:26,440 --> 01:58:28,440
and letting other people do his dirty
work.

1769
01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:32,000
He's also very, very manipulative.

1770
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:34,800
He's a snake.

1771
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:37,240
It's the best way I can say it.

1772
01:58:37,240 --> 01:58:41,080
- What comes across from the briefs of
the plaintiffs

1773
01:58:41,080 --> 01:58:45,400
is that they felt trapped for a period
of time

1774
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:47,480
before they left the community.

1775
01:58:47,480 --> 01:58:50,560
Would you agree that, for a lot of
young people,

1776
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:52,600
particularly young women...
- Yes.

1777
01:58:52,600 --> 01:58:55,000
- ..the costs of leaving Gloriavale,

1778
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:57,120
if they'd lived there all their lives,

1779
01:58:57,120 --> 01:59:00,640
were simply too high to take that
step?

1780
01:59:00,640 --> 01:59:01,840
- Yes.

1781
01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:05,240
We're working now to make...

1782
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:06,840
- INDISTINCT SPEECH

1783
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:10,600
- But my main priority would be to
keep them

1784
01:59:10,600 --> 01:59:12,240
rather than let them go.

1785
01:59:12,240 --> 01:59:13,880
But to keep them back here.

1786
01:59:13,880 --> 01:59:16,240
There are spiritual reasons for that.

1787
01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:17,520
But, er...

1788
01:59:17,520 --> 01:59:19,240
And then...

1789
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:22,280
..they're my people.

1790
01:59:27,240 --> 01:59:29,040
- When I left Gloriavale,

1791
01:59:29,040 --> 01:59:31,960
they had booked me flights to
Auckland.

1792
01:59:31,960 --> 01:59:35,920
I knew it was a city, but I didn't
know anything about it.

1793
01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:41,080
I just knew Auckland must have been
somewhere in New Zealand.

1794
01:59:41,080 --> 01:59:42,840
Because my mum grew up there,

1795
01:59:42,840 --> 01:59:45,760
she had a school friend that she
managed to get in contact,

1796
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:48,880
and they said they would pick me up.

1797
01:59:48,880 --> 01:59:51,080
I remember them saying to me,

1798
01:59:51,080 --> 01:59:53,240
"Oh, how long are you staying for?"

1799
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:56,240
And I was like, "Er, I can't go back."

1800
01:59:56,240 --> 01:59:59,040
But they had thought I was just coming
to stay with them

1801
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:00,560
for a week or something -

1802
02:00:00,560 --> 02:00:02,520
like I was going on holiday.

1803
02:00:02,520 --> 02:00:05,800
So I had to explain to them that my
family

1804
02:00:05,800 --> 02:00:08,240
had cut me off and I couldn't go back.

1805
02:00:08,240 --> 02:00:11,680
And, so, luckily they did say I could,
like,

1806
02:00:11,680 --> 02:00:12,960
live with them.

1807
02:00:12,960 --> 02:00:15,400
And they helped me navigate
everything.

1808
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:18,920
- Dad, thank you for buying hot
chocolate.

1809
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:20,440
- Oh, I didn't get it.

1810
02:00:20,440 --> 02:00:21,920
Someone snuck it in the trolley.

1811
02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:24,240
- No, I told you to get it.

1812
02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:26,880
- You can adapt practically pretty
quickly,

1813
02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:29,600
but mentally and spiritually,

1814
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:32,720
that's a long, long journey.

1815
02:00:32,720 --> 02:00:37,080
The hardest thing was probably how I
fitted in out here,

1816
02:00:37,080 --> 02:00:40,240
because it was a whole new world.

1817
02:00:40,240 --> 02:00:42,720
Basically, it's like learning to read
and write again,

1818
02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:44,240
to understand a new language

1819
02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:46,880
and how the social life works out
here,

1820
02:00:46,880 --> 02:00:49,240
or what's expected and what's not

1821
02:00:49,240 --> 02:00:51,800
and what's normal to eat for dinner
or...

1822
02:00:51,800 --> 02:00:54,240
There's just so much.

1823
02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:58,240
- I was continuously, like,
second-guessing myself.

1824
02:00:58,240 --> 02:01:00,880
I was 18. Like, I was supposed to be a
teenager.

1825
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:03,000
But I didn't feel like a teenager.

1826
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:06,240
And so, like, conversation-wise,

1827
02:01:06,240 --> 02:01:08,240
I was like, "I don't know what to talk
about."

1828
02:01:08,240 --> 02:01:09,960
Like, I know how to make cheese,

1829
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:12,680
but I don't know who Taylor Swift is.

1830
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:18,240
- Which one do you want to get? Which
green...?

1831
02:01:18,240 --> 02:01:19,760
- Jelly babies!

1832
02:01:19,760 --> 02:01:21,520
Jelly beans!

1833
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:23,240
- Shall we keep moving?

1834
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:24,920
- Come on, guys. Hey, you have to keep
up with Mum.

1835
02:01:24,920 --> 02:01:26,120
Don't get lost.

1836
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:28,080
- If you actually think about the
logistics

1837
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:31,240
of somebody leaving, you realise how
difficult it is.

1838
02:01:31,240 --> 02:01:33,160
You don't have a licence. You don't
have a car.

1839
02:01:33,160 --> 02:01:34,720
You don't have a phone.

1840
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:36,560
Like, you don't even know the value of
money.

1841
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:39,640
Like, if someone gave a Gloriavale
person $20,

1842
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:42,240
they would think, "Wow, awesome. I'm
rich."

1843
02:01:42,240 --> 02:01:43,480
Yeah, just wait.

1844
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:45,560
Like, Esther's going to do it that you
can help her.

1845
02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:48,240
You can pass her things, OK?

1846
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:50,240
They tell you when you're living there

1847
02:01:50,240 --> 02:01:53,240
that people leave and then they want
to go back,

1848
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:55,480
but the devil traps them.

1849
02:01:57,520 --> 02:01:58,960
That's not true.

1850
02:02:00,360 --> 02:02:01,920
People find themselves,

1851
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:03,480
they find who they are,

1852
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:06,920
and they find out who God really is.

1853
02:02:06,920 --> 02:02:11,040
And who would ever choose to go back
to prison?

1854
02:02:14,000 --> 02:02:16,680
- OK, what I want to do, can we do
leavers' updates?

1855
02:02:16,680 --> 02:02:17,800
- Yes.

1856
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:19,640
A young person has left recently.

1857
02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:20,840
She didn't have anything.

1858
02:02:20,840 --> 02:02:23,400
She didn't have an original birth
certificate.

1859
02:02:23,400 --> 02:02:24,840
She didn't have photo ID.

1860
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:26,160
She didn't even have a bank account.

1861
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:29,640
So she's had to start from scratch.
She's 20...

1862
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:32,240
- I am the secretary on the trust.

1863
02:02:32,240 --> 02:02:36,800
But my role would be to do my best at
representing

1864
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:40,640
the Gloriavale women and what their
general needs are.

1865
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:43,080
- No-one else on the trust board has
lived there,

1866
02:02:43,080 --> 02:02:45,000
so that's our role, is to actually
just...

1867
02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:46,200
We've lived it.

1868
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:47,840
We know what it's like.

1869
02:02:47,840 --> 02:02:52,160
Like, I can just go, all right,
reverse 15 years,

1870
02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:53,720
I'm in that headspace,

1871
02:02:53,720 --> 02:02:55,880
I can understand how I was thinking
then.

1872
02:02:55,880 --> 02:02:58,240
But if you've never lived there, it's
really difficult.

1873
02:02:58,240 --> 02:03:01,560
You can come at it from a theoretical
perspective,

1874
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:04,400
but you don't know the emotions

1875
02:03:04,400 --> 02:03:07,240
and everything that you actually go
through.

1876
02:03:07,240 --> 02:03:10,880
- It's even just having people that
understand biblical lingo.
- Yeah.

1877
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:13,240
- And that not everything's black and
white.

1878
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:15,840
- LAUGHTER
Like, there's grey stuff.

1879
02:03:15,840 --> 02:03:19,240
- Because in Gloriavale, everything is
black and white.
- Yeah.

1880
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:22,560
- There's a huge amount of change from
when we left.

1881
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:24,640
We took a tent when we left

1882
02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:26,520
because we didn't know where we'd be
staying.

1883
02:03:26,520 --> 02:03:29,240
And now, most people,

1884
02:03:29,240 --> 02:03:32,600
someone on the trust gets some
information

1885
02:03:32,600 --> 02:03:34,240
before they actually leave,

1886
02:03:34,240 --> 02:03:36,400
and we can have something set up for
them -

1887
02:03:36,400 --> 02:03:38,640
whether that's a house or somewhere
for them to live

1888
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:40,400
when they do leave.

1889
02:03:40,400 --> 02:03:44,640
That's a massive change in ten years
from when we left.

1890
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:46,880
- Is the vacuum cleaner going in as
well?

1891
02:03:46,880 --> 02:03:49,240
- Er, yes.

1892
02:03:49,240 --> 02:03:51,080
- Let's leave boxes down here.

1893
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:54,240
These are people coming out like
refugees.

1894
02:03:54,240 --> 02:03:58,120
Let's do the smallest house, which is
house two.

1895
02:03:58,120 --> 02:04:00,520
Let's just get that sorted out of the
side,

1896
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:03,240
and then we'll know everything else is
house one.

1897
02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:05,240
You're helping them set up from
scratch,

1898
02:04:05,240 --> 02:04:07,240
so you're talking entire house-loads.

1899
02:04:07,240 --> 02:04:11,000
You're talking jobs, house rental,
vehicles.

1900
02:04:11,000 --> 02:04:13,920
You've got to think about everything
that someone might need

1901
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:16,440
if they've just stepped off from, you
know, another world

1902
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:18,240
and landed on your doorstep.

1903
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:21,040
Just like that.
- Yeah, that's going to be good like
that.

1904
02:04:24,560 --> 02:04:26,800
- At the moment, things are pretty
rocky inside Gloriavale,

1905
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:31,840
and there are people sort of heading
out to the edges or leaving.

1906
02:04:31,840 --> 02:04:34,160
Our aim is to always have one whole
house-load

1907
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:36,440
ready to go at any moment.

1908
02:04:36,440 --> 02:04:37,800
Give us four hours' notice,

1909
02:04:37,800 --> 02:04:40,480
we will load up a trailer and we will
deliver

1910
02:04:40,480 --> 02:04:43,480
a house-load of furniture to whoever
needs it.

1911
02:04:45,840 --> 02:04:50,280
- # So much doubt out here in the
wasteland

1912
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:56,280
# Like we're sinners come undone

1913
02:04:59,480 --> 02:05:02,240
# Ain't no water to chastise me

1914
02:05:02,240 --> 02:05:05,880
# No shade under Christ's apple tree

1915
02:05:07,240 --> 02:05:10,240
# I'm weary with the toil

1916
02:05:13,440 --> 02:05:16,520
# All you guys better open your eyes

1917
02:05:16,520 --> 02:05:20,080
# Get us out of this goddamned mess

1918
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:24,800
# And fight for... #

1919
02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:26,240
- Hi, Boaz.
- Hello.

1920
02:05:26,240 --> 02:05:28,240
- How are you doing?
- Yeah, doing all right.

1921
02:05:28,240 --> 02:05:29,440
Doing all right.
- Do you want a hug?

1922
02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:32,000
- Yeah, OK. Yeah, why not?
- Nice.

1923
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:33,400
Nice to see you.

1924
02:05:33,400 --> 02:05:35,680
- How are you?
- Lovely.

1925
02:05:35,680 --> 02:05:37,400
- Yeah.

1926
02:05:37,400 --> 02:05:38,840
- Your wife needs you.

1927
02:05:38,840 --> 02:05:40,560
- OK. Righto.

1928
02:05:40,560 --> 02:05:42,280
- Then we'll unload this.

1929
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:53,800
- My wife said to me,

1930
02:05:53,800 --> 02:05:58,960
"If you do go, I'm not going to stay
here without you."

1931
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:02,760
But now I think it's actually starting
to dawn on me

1932
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:05,840
the consequences of my actions.

1933
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:10,080
Just thinking about what's actually
happened,

1934
02:06:10,080 --> 02:06:11,720
because it's all in a rush.

1935
02:06:14,240 --> 02:06:16,040
It's actually finally hitting me that,

1936
02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:17,560
yeah, I have moved.

1937
02:06:19,440 --> 02:06:22,240
Gloriavale's all I've ever known.

1938
02:06:22,240 --> 02:06:24,600
And a million questions going through
your mind.

1939
02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:28,960
Just how do I live out in society?

1940
02:06:30,240 --> 02:06:32,280
You all right? You hurt your legs?

1941
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:36,760
Cuddle.

1942
02:06:36,760 --> 02:06:40,040
We're heading out for the first time
with three kids,

1943
02:06:40,040 --> 02:06:43,480
nearly four, it's kind of like...

1944
02:06:43,480 --> 02:06:44,920
It's massive.

1945
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:50,440
Thank you!
- OK, thank you.

1946
02:06:50,440 --> 02:06:53,760
- Me and my wife are just scared. I
mean, really scared.

1947
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:55,240
I mean, just everything -

1948
02:06:55,240 --> 02:06:59,080
organising rent, kids going to school
or sports.

1949
02:07:00,240 --> 02:07:02,080
It's something you've never done
before.

1950
02:07:02,080 --> 02:07:03,520
You never had to do it before

1951
02:07:03,520 --> 02:07:06,840
because our life that we've lived at
Gloriavale

1952
02:07:06,840 --> 02:07:09,240
caters for a lot of those things.

1953
02:07:09,240 --> 02:07:12,040
But now you've got to think of
everything.

1954
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:14,640
And there's a baby coming in seven
weeks, so...

1955
02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:15,920
I mean, even...

1956
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:20,080
Everything else, that on top is just
another...

1957
02:07:20,080 --> 02:07:22,800
How do I do it? Again, how...?

1958
02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:24,440
How do I cope?

1959
02:07:24,440 --> 02:07:26,600
How do I even do this?

1960
02:07:27,920 --> 02:07:29,720
Go to Mummy? OK.

1961
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:33,240
The biggest thing of all is I want to
make sure that my kids

1962
02:07:33,240 --> 02:07:36,520
have the support from their mother and
father.

1963
02:07:54,720 --> 02:07:56,880
Finding out years later,

1964
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:59,760
when I've even got kids of my own,

1965
02:07:59,760 --> 02:08:02,520
the stuff that he did,

1966
02:08:02,520 --> 02:08:05,680
it was just so hard to even understand
that

1967
02:08:05,680 --> 02:08:12,240
and just try and even live with the
knowledge of that.

1968
02:08:12,240 --> 02:08:18,240
That's why I put so much emphasis on
family,

1969
02:08:18,240 --> 02:08:19,520
and especially my family.

1970
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:20,760
Because...

1971
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:24,840
..I don't want those sort of things
happening to my kids.

1972
02:08:27,240 --> 02:08:31,560
Basically, my one goal in life is,
one, to serve God,

1973
02:08:31,560 --> 02:08:37,920
and to also make sure my family has
someone that they can look up to.

1974
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:50,000
- The expectation is that the members
would have children

1975
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:53,520
who would become baptised members of
the community?

1976
02:08:53,520 --> 02:08:56,960
- That's what would be expected, yes.

1977
02:08:56,960 --> 02:09:01,000
- But you've got them sitting up on
the base of the mountain range

1978
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:03,240
dividing New Zealand,

1979
02:09:03,240 --> 02:09:05,640
and they have no access...

1980
02:09:06,760 --> 02:09:09,760
..to the outside world except what you
approve.

1981
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:13,520
That's right?
- That is right.

1982
02:09:13,520 --> 02:09:17,640
- Separation is the main reason and
the main policy

1983
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:21,040
to keep the children in the community,
isn't it?

1984
02:09:21,040 --> 02:09:25,120
- Yes, I suppose if you took it on
further to that degree, yes.

1985
02:09:25,120 --> 02:09:28,440
It is to keep them out of some of the
influences

1986
02:09:28,440 --> 02:09:30,240
outside of the community

1987
02:09:30,240 --> 02:09:34,560
that would prevent them coming to a
faith in God.

1988
02:09:36,480 --> 02:09:39,240
- Coming to a faith in God...
- Yes.

1989
02:09:39,240 --> 02:09:41,960
- ..that you are teaching

1990
02:09:41,960 --> 02:09:44,800
and wanting to impose on them through
ignorance?

1991
02:09:44,800 --> 02:09:45,960
Do you agree?

1992
02:09:45,960 --> 02:09:47,800
- Not through ignorance, no.

1993
02:09:47,800 --> 02:09:50,720
I want to impose it on them, but not
through ignorance.

1994
02:09:50,720 --> 02:09:54,080
- But they're totally ignorant of the
world

1995
02:09:54,080 --> 02:09:55,560
and worldliness, aren't they?

1996
02:09:55,560 --> 02:09:56,840
- No, they're not.

1997
02:09:56,840 --> 02:10:00,640
- You keep them separated because they
just might enjoy the life - correct?

1998
02:10:00,640 --> 02:10:02,600
- They just might do that, yes.

1999
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:10,680
- When I left, I had to navigate
getting a job

2000
02:10:10,680 --> 02:10:13,560
and what I wanted to do with my life.

2001
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:16,240
I didn't know what I could dream
growing up,

2002
02:10:16,240 --> 02:10:19,520
but I always was, like, jealous that
men in Gloriavale

2003
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:20,920
could study things.

2004
02:10:20,920 --> 02:10:24,240
So I decided to go to university

2005
02:10:24,240 --> 02:10:27,920
and get a degree in occupational
therapy.

2006
02:10:29,560 --> 02:10:30,960
Hi, JJ.

2007
02:10:32,040 --> 02:10:33,680
Does JJ have any toys?

2008
02:10:35,560 --> 02:10:36,880
Oh, watch.

2009
02:10:38,240 --> 02:10:40,640
JJ, hi.

2010
02:10:40,640 --> 02:10:41,960
I'm just going to...

2011
02:10:43,240 --> 02:10:45,800
My life wasn't just for having kids,

2012
02:10:45,800 --> 02:10:48,120
but it has been a roller-coaster of a
ride.

2013
02:10:48,120 --> 02:10:49,240
Like, it's a journey.

2014
02:10:49,240 --> 02:10:52,920
And I'm still on that journey of,
like, finding myself

2015
02:10:52,920 --> 02:10:57,880
and having a voice and knowing that
women can have a voice

2016
02:10:57,880 --> 02:11:02,000
and I can be heard and have my own
career as a woman.

2017
02:11:04,840 --> 02:11:06,440
- Today, a bombshell in court.

2018
02:11:06,440 --> 02:11:09,880
Details emerging that before his
death, Hopeful Christian

2019
02:11:09,880 --> 02:11:12,640
had already started a second
Gloriavale community

2020
02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:13,800
in southern India.

2021
02:11:13,800 --> 02:11:17,040
- Five New Zealand women have been
living in the Indian community

2022
02:11:17,040 --> 02:11:18,240
for over a decade.

2023
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:20,360
- Married off to Indian men to
replicate

2024
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:22,640
the New Zealand Gloriavale in India.

2025
02:11:25,240 --> 02:11:28,720
- You also mentioned a number of times
during the course of your evidence

2026
02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:30,400
that you had been travelling to India.

2027
02:11:30,400 --> 02:11:31,840
Do you recall those references?

2028
02:11:31,840 --> 02:11:33,240
- Yes, we went there.

2029
02:11:33,240 --> 02:11:34,440
There's a community over there

2030
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:37,480
operating on the same principles that
we operate on.

2031
02:11:37,480 --> 02:11:40,920
- And are you the Overseeing Shepherd
of that community in India?

2032
02:11:40,920 --> 02:11:42,640
- I would be, yes.

2033
02:11:42,640 --> 02:11:45,240
- Gloriavale in New Zealand

2034
02:11:45,240 --> 02:11:48,440
supports Gloriavale in India - is that
right?

2035
02:11:48,440 --> 02:11:50,520
- Yes.

2036
02:11:50,520 --> 02:11:53,520
- Hopeful deciding to set up a
community in India

2037
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:56,240
is pretty up there with one of the
most shocking things

2038
02:11:56,240 --> 02:11:57,760
he would've thought of doing.

2039
02:11:59,240 --> 02:12:02,840
They found some farmland in South
India

2040
02:12:02,840 --> 02:12:04,520
and purchased it.

2041
02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:10,000
He sold it to us as expanding our
Christian faith.

2042
02:12:10,000 --> 02:12:13,920
And India was a third world country
and they needed a lot of help,

2043
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:18,240
so that would be a good place to
convert some people.

2044
02:12:18,240 --> 02:12:21,040
- I think my dad liked the idea

2045
02:12:21,040 --> 02:12:24,240
of going to somewhere like India and
building another kingdom.

2046
02:12:24,240 --> 02:12:27,240
They might've hoped to be able to, you
know,

2047
02:12:27,240 --> 02:12:30,240
have another place they could go to, I
suppose,

2048
02:12:30,240 --> 02:12:31,720
if they were getting in trouble -

2049
02:12:31,720 --> 02:12:35,240
a sort of a haven to escape
persecution, possibly.

2050
02:12:35,240 --> 02:12:36,800
- I'm Willing.

2051
02:12:36,800 --> 02:12:38,240
- I'm Ready.

2052
02:12:38,240 --> 02:12:40,040
- I'm Faithful.

2053
02:12:40,040 --> 02:12:42,560
- Faithful would've been 10 or 11 when
they brought him

2054
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:46,800
to New Zealand, and he went to school
with us.

2055
02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:49,240
He was actually the only boy that was
allowed

2056
02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:51,080
to take cooking classes with the
girls,

2057
02:12:51,080 --> 02:12:54,240
so Hopeful was training him to be able
to do everything

2058
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:57,600
so that he could start the community
in India.

2059
02:12:57,600 --> 02:13:00,280
- Beauty and the beast!

2060
02:13:03,240 --> 02:13:07,640
- Dad got a young boy of about 16 or
17

2061
02:13:07,640 --> 02:13:09,840
and made him into a leader.

2062
02:13:09,840 --> 02:13:11,880
He was a puppet, really.

2063
02:13:11,880 --> 02:13:16,760
- He just worshipped Hopeful and,
like, did whatever he wanted.

2064
02:13:16,760 --> 02:13:21,680
And I think that's sort of what he's
carried on over there.

2065
02:13:21,680 --> 02:13:25,240
- It became a good way to get rid of a
whole lot of girls,

2066
02:13:25,240 --> 02:13:29,240
because in Gloriavale there was an
imbalance of girls to boys

2067
02:13:29,240 --> 02:13:31,560
and, in India, the opposite way.

2068
02:13:31,560 --> 02:13:33,320
So they sent the girls over there.

2069
02:13:35,240 --> 02:13:38,240
- One other thing is there's
definitely been

2070
02:13:38,240 --> 02:13:41,440
abuse victims sent there.

2071
02:13:41,440 --> 02:13:42,920
You know, that...

2072
02:13:42,920 --> 02:13:45,120
And that gets them away.

2073
02:13:45,120 --> 02:13:46,760
Get them married off -

2074
02:13:46,760 --> 02:13:50,240
you know, out of your hair.

2075
02:13:50,240 --> 02:13:53,760
They are, you know, given Gloriavale
choice -

2076
02:13:53,760 --> 02:13:57,160
you know, which is obey the leaders or
go to hell.

2077
02:13:57,160 --> 02:13:58,640
Yeah, so it's free choice.

2078
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:05,400
- Around the time when I was 14 or 15,
Hopeful called, like,

2079
02:14:05,400 --> 02:14:07,400
all the single girls into a meeting.

2080
02:14:07,400 --> 02:14:08,600
He put it to them like,

2081
02:14:08,600 --> 02:14:12,120
"We want some women to put their hand
up to go."

2082
02:14:13,240 --> 02:14:16,000
My sister put her hand up.

2083
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:18,040
But you do things like that

2084
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:20,240
because you want to look good in the
leader's eyes,

2085
02:14:20,240 --> 02:14:23,080
and you want to be putting your trust
in God.

2086
02:14:24,840 --> 02:14:27,600
But I think she wanted to get away

2087
02:14:27,600 --> 02:14:30,600
from the home environment that we had.

2088
02:14:38,240 --> 02:14:43,000
We experienced a lot of trauma just in
our own little family,

2089
02:14:43,000 --> 02:14:47,720
from watching my parents' whole
situation

2090
02:14:47,720 --> 02:14:51,560
and watching my dad beat my mum till
she saw stars.

2091
02:14:55,040 --> 02:14:59,920
We all felt helpless, so that was like
an escape for her.

2092
02:15:04,320 --> 02:15:10,240
Precious' wedding was supposed to be
an example to the Indians

2093
02:15:10,240 --> 02:15:12,240
that you had to forsake your family.

2094
02:15:12,240 --> 02:15:15,640
And so her wedding had to be in India,

2095
02:15:15,640 --> 02:15:18,600
and none of our family were allowed to
go to the wedding.

2096
02:15:21,240 --> 02:15:24,960
She was chosen to marry a man with
polio.

2097
02:15:26,240 --> 02:15:29,720
He can't walk without crutches.

2098
02:15:29,720 --> 02:15:32,280
He can't stand on his feet upright.

2099
02:15:33,840 --> 02:15:35,840
He's not ever going to have the
ability

2100
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:37,720
to be a New Zealand citizen,

2101
02:15:37,720 --> 02:15:41,800
or even survive in India because of
his condition.

2102
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:45,480
And so how could there be a future for
their whole family

2103
02:15:45,480 --> 02:15:48,240
outside of the community?

2104
02:15:48,240 --> 02:15:52,280
It's like they've almost set them up
so that they are trapped.

2105
02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:55,480
KEYPAD BEEPS

2106
02:15:57,360 --> 02:16:00,240
- The number you have called is
invalid.

2107
02:16:00,240 --> 02:16:03,240
Please check the number and dial
again.

2108
02:16:12,560 --> 02:16:14,000
- Nine, three...

2109
02:16:19,960 --> 02:16:21,280
Let's try this.

2110
02:16:25,000 --> 02:16:28,240
PHONE RINGS

2111
02:16:32,640 --> 02:16:34,680
Hello, hi.

2112
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:37,280
Is this the community in India?

2113
02:16:41,440 --> 02:16:43,800
Er, Theo. I'm Precious' sister.

2114
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:49,520
Yes. Yeah, I'm Honey.

2115
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:55,280
Theo.

2116
02:16:56,280 --> 02:16:57,880
Can I talk to Precious?

2117
02:17:05,320 --> 02:17:07,160
Could I talk to my sister?

2118
02:17:20,600 --> 02:17:22,000
Hello? Can you hear me?

2119
02:17:22,000 --> 02:17:23,240
It's Theo.

2120
02:17:25,640 --> 02:17:28,840
How have you been? It's been so long
since I've chatted to you.

2121
02:17:28,840 --> 02:17:30,600
I haven't been able to get through.

2122
02:17:39,800 --> 02:17:42,840
Yeah, I'm still in New Zealand. I'm
still alive.

2123
02:17:42,840 --> 02:17:44,600
LAUGHTER

2124
02:17:44,600 --> 02:17:46,040
- Ha. Yeah.

2125
02:17:47,240 --> 02:17:48,840
- I'm still your sister.

2126
02:17:52,240 --> 02:17:54,280
PRECIOUS SIGHS

2127
02:17:59,040 --> 02:18:00,880
Oh, wow. What number is that?

2128
02:18:02,920 --> 02:18:05,240
Far out. Time's gone fast.

2129
02:18:05,240 --> 02:18:07,600
Is it just...? You'll just stay there
forever?

2130
02:18:17,160 --> 02:18:20,240
Well, they always have said that the
Lord's coming back.

2131
02:18:29,920 --> 02:18:31,240
Yeah. Well, hopefully...

2132
02:18:31,240 --> 02:18:35,000
Hopefully we can connect and reunite

2133
02:18:35,000 --> 02:18:36,880
before the Lord comes back.

2134
02:18:36,880 --> 02:18:38,520
- Ha.

2135
02:18:38,520 --> 02:18:42,600
- Maybe I'll come to India one day and
visit you.

2136
02:18:44,480 --> 02:18:46,280
The kids can meet their auntie.

2137
02:18:48,440 --> 02:18:50,240
- Mm.

2138
02:18:50,240 --> 02:18:51,760
- Well, I miss you lots.

2139
02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:55,080
I haven't seen you since I was 15.

2140
02:18:55,080 --> 02:18:56,880
CHILD CRIES

2141
02:18:56,880 --> 02:18:59,760
All right, I'll let you go.
- All right.

2142
02:18:59,760 --> 02:19:01,280
- Love you.

2143
02:19:03,240 --> 02:19:04,560
Bye.

2144
02:19:12,520 --> 02:19:15,240
Er, very intense, but good.

2145
02:19:15,240 --> 02:19:16,960
It's probably the longest conversation

2146
02:19:16,960 --> 02:19:19,240
I've had with her.

2147
02:19:19,240 --> 02:19:23,680
I think that whole thing of, like, the
Lord's going to come back

2148
02:19:23,680 --> 02:19:27,240
is like her coping mechanism to know
that it's going to end.

2149
02:19:27,240 --> 02:19:29,680
Like, she's not going to be living
like that forever,

2150
02:19:29,680 --> 02:19:31,000
which is sort of sad.

2151
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:34,640
Like, life is more than just
surviving, isn't it?

2152
02:19:36,040 --> 02:19:38,840
She would probably freak out if I
turned up in India.

2153
02:19:38,840 --> 02:19:41,240
I don't think she believed me that I
would come.

2154
02:19:43,440 --> 02:19:47,400
I've talked to media and I've talked
to lawyers.

2155
02:19:47,400 --> 02:19:50,560
I've talked to the Human Rights
Commission.

2156
02:19:50,560 --> 02:19:54,240
And everybody says the same thing,
that they want to help

2157
02:19:54,240 --> 02:19:56,040
but they think it's too hard,

2158
02:19:56,040 --> 02:19:59,280
and nobody's actually been there to
see if they're OK.

2159
02:20:02,120 --> 02:20:05,560
So my conclusion is that I have to be
the one that goes

2160
02:20:05,560 --> 02:20:08,920
to India to see, in reality, how she's
actually living

2161
02:20:08,920 --> 02:20:11,040
on an everyday basis.

2162
02:20:15,680 --> 02:20:18,240
- So this is the laundry and the
sewing room.

2163
02:20:18,240 --> 02:20:20,600
- Together?
- Yep.

2164
02:20:20,600 --> 02:20:24,240
We went and found fabric that was the
same colour.

2165
02:20:24,240 --> 02:20:25,560
- In India?
- In India.

2166
02:20:25,560 --> 02:20:27,720
But it was thinner and it was a
slightly...

2167
02:20:27,720 --> 02:20:30,640
See how that's like a dusty blue?
- Yeah.

2168
02:20:30,640 --> 02:20:33,240
- Elijah and I were sent there about
14 years ago

2169
02:20:33,240 --> 02:20:35,680
to help set up the community.

2170
02:20:35,680 --> 02:20:38,960
Elijah went to do a lot of fencing on
the farm.

2171
02:20:38,960 --> 02:20:42,240
I went to set up the kitchen and teach
the girls how to sew.

2172
02:20:42,240 --> 02:20:45,680
So they obviously made them wear our
uniforms

2173
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:48,600
and they have to eat our food as well.

2174
02:20:48,600 --> 02:20:49,840
I felt really sorry for them,

2175
02:20:49,840 --> 02:20:52,080
because they loved their curries, they
loved their food.

2176
02:20:52,080 --> 02:20:53,240
It's their culture.

2177
02:20:53,240 --> 02:20:55,360
And you're just taking that all off
them and saying

2178
02:20:55,360 --> 02:20:57,400
that they can't have it because it's
not Christian,

2179
02:20:57,400 --> 02:20:59,520
and it's just not true.

2180
02:20:59,520 --> 02:21:02,680
- So we fly in Kerala,

2181
02:21:02,680 --> 02:21:04,800
in Thiruvananthapuram.

2182
02:21:04,800 --> 02:21:06,240
- Yeah, that's the one.

2183
02:21:06,240 --> 02:21:08,040
Does anybody know the address?
- LAUGHTER

2184
02:21:08,040 --> 02:21:10,240
- Are you just going to wing it?

2185
02:21:10,240 --> 02:21:12,240
Oh, we're getting closer!

2186
02:21:12,240 --> 02:21:13,960
Oh, there's the canal.

2187
02:21:13,960 --> 02:21:15,440
The road comes in here.

2188
02:21:15,440 --> 02:21:17,760
- That's the road there, isn't it?
- Yeah.

2189
02:21:17,760 --> 02:21:19,600
- And here. This is the gate in.
- Yeah, that's it.

2190
02:21:19,600 --> 02:21:20,680
Yeah, that's it.

2191
02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:22,440
It's important that we go and check on
them.

2192
02:21:22,440 --> 02:21:23,640
Like, who's going to see them

2193
02:21:23,640 --> 02:21:25,960
and make sure that those girls are
actually OK?

2194
02:21:25,960 --> 02:21:29,240
- We could open the children's mind up
to...
- Mm.

2195
02:21:29,240 --> 02:21:31,240
- Like, they don't even know who I am.

2196
02:21:31,240 --> 02:21:33,840
- The thing is, you might not see the
result of what you do

2197
02:21:33,840 --> 02:21:35,400
when you're there.
- No.

2198
02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:37,640
- But ten years later, there'll be
stories

2199
02:21:37,640 --> 02:21:39,880
that lead back to that point.
- Yeah.
- Mm.

2200
02:21:39,880 --> 02:21:41,240
- When are you guys going?

2201
02:21:41,240 --> 02:21:43,080
- In two weeks.
- Oh, yeah.

2202
02:21:56,880 --> 02:22:00,240
- I want to, like, put my head under,
but it might get knocked off.

2203
02:22:00,240 --> 02:22:02,240
- LAUGHTER
- Yeah.

2204
02:22:02,240 --> 02:22:03,480
- It's very real now.

2205
02:22:03,480 --> 02:22:05,520
I haven't been sleeping great.

2206
02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:07,240
I've been a bit anxious.

2207
02:22:08,240 --> 02:22:11,280
But then I just keep remembering what
the focus is.

2208
02:22:12,680 --> 02:22:14,800
Theo hasn't seen her sister for ten
years,

2209
02:22:14,800 --> 02:22:16,720
and I've come as a support to her.

2210
02:22:16,720 --> 02:22:18,880
And I've been here before.

2211
02:22:18,880 --> 02:22:22,720
And we're here to make sure those
girls are OK, and their kids.

2212
02:22:29,240 --> 02:22:32,000
- I think the fear is of the
rejection,

2213
02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:35,520
of, like, her not wanting to see me

2214
02:22:35,520 --> 02:22:40,800
but knowing she would want to see me
if she wasn't part of the cult.

2215
02:22:44,880 --> 02:22:47,120
- Someone did just beep their horn.
It's the vehicle we're in.

2216
02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:49,640
That's how you drive here. You just
beep your horn at people.

2217
02:22:50,920 --> 02:22:54,240
No, it's a big van. It's like a party
bus, actually.

2218
02:22:54,240 --> 02:22:56,480
You kids would have a great party in
here.

2219
02:22:57,880 --> 02:23:00,080
- I love you, too.
- HORN BEEPS

2220
02:23:00,080 --> 02:23:02,280
- LAUGHTER

2221
02:23:03,600 --> 02:23:06,920
- I've tried to dress conservatively

2222
02:23:06,920 --> 02:23:09,560
because it can be quite a roadblock.

2223
02:23:09,560 --> 02:23:11,920
Try and remove as many roadblocks as
possible.

2224
02:23:13,240 --> 02:23:15,040
- I'll put a bit up here now.

2225
02:23:16,560 --> 02:23:20,600
- I've grown into a woman that they
probably don't know.

2226
02:23:20,600 --> 02:23:23,560
And I'm not controlled by men any
more,

2227
02:23:23,560 --> 02:23:25,800
which I was when they last knew me.

2228
02:23:29,600 --> 02:23:34,640
- My sister - she's sort of come to
terms with, "This is my life.

2229
02:23:34,640 --> 02:23:37,560
"I'm never going to ever live in New
Zealand again.

2230
02:23:37,560 --> 02:23:40,400
"That's not even an option."

2231
02:23:40,400 --> 02:23:44,240
I want to tell her that that is an
option.

2232
02:23:44,240 --> 02:23:47,240
And then also to see her living
situation

2233
02:23:47,240 --> 02:23:48,880
and her access to money,

2234
02:23:48,880 --> 02:23:50,240
whether she has a phone.

2235
02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:52,280
And the kids' schooling as well.

2236
02:23:54,240 --> 02:23:56,920
I really want to find out whether they
have access

2237
02:23:56,920 --> 02:23:59,240
to their passports or their birth
certificates,

2238
02:23:59,240 --> 02:24:01,080
because we never did in Gloriavale.

2239
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:05,680
I want to find out if there's any way
out.

2240
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:09,840
What would she do if she wanted to ask
for help?

2241
02:24:09,840 --> 02:24:13,240
- I remember this, and I remember that
pond there.

2242
02:24:13,240 --> 02:24:15,800
- INDISTINCT SPEECH

2243
02:24:15,800 --> 02:24:17,120
- We've come a long way.

2244
02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:20,840
It's a huge expense and a lot of
logistics.

2245
02:24:20,840 --> 02:24:22,520
We're going to try and just rock up.

2246
02:24:22,520 --> 02:24:25,040
Just going from Gloriavale experience,

2247
02:24:25,040 --> 02:24:26,920
if you call ahead, they get really
frightened

2248
02:24:26,920 --> 02:24:30,280
and they have time to prepare - or
maybe hide Precious even.

2249
02:24:32,120 --> 02:24:35,480
I feel like the element of surprise is
probably the best way

2250
02:24:35,480 --> 02:24:37,280
to actually get to see them.

2251
02:24:42,560 --> 02:24:44,880
We're here to check on those girls

2252
02:24:44,880 --> 02:24:46,560
and make sure that they've got a way
out.

2253
02:24:46,560 --> 02:24:49,560
Because even if they don't feel like
they want to leave now,

2254
02:24:49,560 --> 02:24:50,840
that time might come,

2255
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:52,240
could come for their children.

2256
02:24:52,240 --> 02:24:55,760
Remember those kids and go and do the
right thing.

2257
02:24:55,760 --> 02:24:57,160
- Same.

2258
02:25:03,800 --> 02:25:05,160
- It's recording.

2259
02:25:05,160 --> 02:25:06,360
- Right.

2260
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:08,280
- Yeah.
- See you.

2261
02:25:15,880 --> 02:25:18,280
- I wonder if it's who you think it
is.

2262
02:25:19,920 --> 02:25:21,360
Is it him?

2263
02:25:21,360 --> 02:25:22,600
- He does look familiar.

2264
02:25:25,800 --> 02:25:28,040
Hello.
- Hi.

2265
02:25:28,040 --> 02:25:29,480
- Are you good?

2266
02:25:31,240 --> 02:25:32,920
- Hello.
- Hello.

2267
02:25:32,920 --> 02:25:34,080
- I'm scared.

2268
02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:36,240
- Hey, what's the worst they can do to
us? Be mean?

2269
02:25:36,240 --> 02:25:38,000
We're tough. We've got thick skin.

2270
02:25:39,800 --> 02:25:41,280
Hey, kids.

2271
02:25:45,000 --> 02:25:47,840
Where are the...? Where are the
grown-ups?

2272
02:25:47,840 --> 02:25:49,280
Down this way?

2273
02:25:54,840 --> 02:25:56,280
- Oh, shit!

2274
02:25:57,520 --> 02:25:58,760
- Hey, girls.

2275
02:25:59,800 --> 02:26:01,720
What are your names?

2276
02:26:01,720 --> 02:26:03,640
Angel? And...?

2277
02:26:03,640 --> 02:26:04,880
- Prudence.
- Prudence.

2278
02:26:04,880 --> 02:26:06,240
This is Theo.

2279
02:26:06,240 --> 02:26:07,520
She's Precious' sister.

2280
02:26:12,160 --> 02:26:13,560
- Precious is up there.

2281
02:26:13,560 --> 02:26:15,240
- Should we just keep walking?
- Yeah.

2282
02:26:15,240 --> 02:26:17,400
- OK, cool.

2283
02:26:17,400 --> 02:26:18,680
Thank you.

2284
02:26:25,240 --> 02:26:27,240
- Hello.

2285
02:26:31,240 --> 02:26:33,240
How's it going?

2286
02:26:33,240 --> 02:26:34,560
Yes.

2287
02:26:34,560 --> 02:26:36,000
Rosanna came with me.

2288
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:37,640
- The unexpected.

2289
02:26:37,640 --> 02:26:39,520
- The unexpected!

2290
02:26:39,520 --> 02:26:41,240
Very! Hello.

2291
02:26:41,240 --> 02:26:42,640
Nice to see you.

2292
02:26:44,560 --> 02:26:45,880
- What's...? Is this...?

2293
02:26:46,960 --> 02:26:49,000
Hello, Overcomer.

2294
02:26:49,000 --> 02:26:50,480
I'm Auntie Theo.

2295
02:26:50,480 --> 02:26:52,960
I'm Mum's sister.

2296
02:26:52,960 --> 02:26:54,240
Came from New Zealand.

2297
02:26:55,240 --> 02:26:57,040
It is hot.

2298
02:26:57,040 --> 02:27:00,240
We're doing some travelling and
thought we'd pop in and say hi.

2299
02:27:00,240 --> 02:27:01,640
- Hello, what's your name?

2300
02:27:01,640 --> 02:27:03,240
Oh, my gosh! You're Faithful!

2301
02:27:03,240 --> 02:27:05,240
Sorry!

2302
02:27:05,240 --> 02:27:06,440
I didn't rec...! You've gone...

2303
02:27:06,440 --> 02:27:08,240
You've grown up, I guess.

2304
02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:09,600
Sorry.
- I've been sick.

2305
02:27:09,600 --> 02:27:11,640
- Oh, my... Oh, that's not good.

2306
02:27:11,640 --> 02:27:13,240
What are your names?

2307
02:27:13,240 --> 02:27:15,760
- Bernice.
- Bernice and Benevolence.

2308
02:27:15,760 --> 02:27:17,240
- Bernice and Benevolence.

2309
02:27:17,240 --> 02:27:18,760
How many altogether, then?

2310
02:27:18,760 --> 02:27:20,240
- Nine.
- Nice.

2311
02:27:22,480 --> 02:27:25,240
32 children born here?
- Yeah.

2312
02:27:25,240 --> 02:27:27,520
- In five families?

2313
02:27:29,240 --> 02:27:32,240
Yeah, so you've got a very young
population.

2314
02:27:32,240 --> 02:27:33,400
- Yeah.

2315
02:27:33,400 --> 02:27:34,560
Pretty much.

2316
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:36,920
- Hello.

2317
02:27:36,920 --> 02:27:39,440
I'm Theo, Precious' sister.

2318
02:27:40,560 --> 02:27:43,560
- My name is Truth.
- Yeah, nice to meet you. Finally.

2319
02:27:45,240 --> 02:27:47,800
You probably remember me as Honey,
yeah.
- Yeah.

2320
02:27:54,360 --> 02:27:56,280
- You must have been surprised to see
me.

2321
02:27:57,760 --> 02:27:59,880
When do you think you'll come to New
Zealand?

2322
02:27:59,880 --> 02:28:02,000
- LAUGHTER
- Oh, I don't know.

2323
02:28:02,000 --> 02:28:04,880
Do you still have an up-to-date
passport?

2324
02:28:04,880 --> 02:28:06,240
Do you just keep it in your room?

2325
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:11,240
Oh, how come you...? Is it so they
don't get lost?

2326
02:28:11,240 --> 02:28:12,800
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2327
02:28:12,800 --> 02:28:14,800
- Have the kids even got passports?

2328
02:28:18,240 --> 02:28:19,560
Oh, true.

2329
02:28:28,240 --> 02:28:31,000
She was quite different from what I
remember.

2330
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:33,240
She used to be quite confident

2331
02:28:33,240 --> 02:28:37,240
and, like, people used to mock her for
being really bossy growing up.

2332
02:28:37,240 --> 02:28:38,800
She was just really quiet.

2333
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:42,720
Instead of replying, she would just do
this nervous laugh.

2334
02:28:42,720 --> 02:28:44,960
She looked lifeless,

2335
02:28:44,960 --> 02:28:46,840
like she was just surviving.

2336
02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:57,080
- How is that choice made about girls
who go over to India

2337
02:28:57,080 --> 02:28:58,440
to marry Indian men?

2338
02:28:58,440 --> 02:29:01,240
- The announcement is made.

2339
02:29:01,240 --> 02:29:03,520
You know, that there's a young man
there,

2340
02:29:03,520 --> 02:29:05,560
he would like to get married.

2341
02:29:05,560 --> 02:29:08,240
Would there they be any girls here who
want to go

2342
02:29:08,240 --> 02:29:10,600
and marry the man and live in India?

2343
02:29:10,600 --> 02:29:13,240
- So, Mr Temple, when you say it's up
to them,

2344
02:29:13,240 --> 02:29:17,240
the Gloriavale leadership would make
the announcement

2345
02:29:17,240 --> 02:29:20,240
and wait to hear from a young woman

2346
02:29:20,240 --> 02:29:23,040
saying she was interested in that
option?

2347
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:25,920
Or would it be something that was
discussed

2348
02:29:25,920 --> 02:29:27,040
with the young woman,

2349
02:29:27,040 --> 02:29:30,640
the possibility that she might take up
that option?

2350
02:29:30,640 --> 02:29:33,280
- I can only know of one happening...

2351
02:29:35,880 --> 02:29:39,680
..where it was put to a girl, would
she like to go?

2352
02:29:40,920 --> 02:29:42,960
- And so, for all except for one,

2353
02:29:42,960 --> 02:29:46,840
they asked the leadership to let them
go to India

2354
02:29:46,840 --> 02:29:49,680
to marry a young Indian man?

2355
02:29:49,680 --> 02:29:53,240
- Yes, ask her if she would like to.

2356
02:29:53,240 --> 02:29:55,640
- And for one person, it was a
discussion

2357
02:29:55,640 --> 02:29:58,240
and it was suggested that might be
something that person

2358
02:29:58,240 --> 02:29:59,760
would want to do?
- Yes, yeah.

2359
02:30:01,400 --> 02:30:03,240
- ROSANNA:
- Precious isn't the Precious I
remember.

2360
02:30:03,240 --> 02:30:05,840
- She's not. Not at all.

2361
02:30:05,840 --> 02:30:09,480
I was a bit, like, a bit shocked.
- Yeah.

2362
02:30:09,480 --> 02:30:11,600
Yeah.
- Just a bit concerned.
- Interesting.

2363
02:30:11,600 --> 02:30:14,720
Some of the women, more than others,
seemed quite downtrodden

2364
02:30:14,720 --> 02:30:19,120
and lacking in confidence to even
speak or to be around us.

2365
02:30:19,120 --> 02:30:22,240
They didn't show a lot of emotion.

2366
02:30:22,240 --> 02:30:25,760
It's hard to leave Gloriavale in New
Zealand

2367
02:30:25,760 --> 02:30:28,920
simply because you know nothing about
life on the outside.

2368
02:30:28,920 --> 02:30:31,200
And how much harder is that here in
India?

2369
02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:33,880
They're isolated by location.

2370
02:30:33,880 --> 02:30:37,800
It's a million times harder for them
to leave.

2371
02:30:37,800 --> 02:30:39,720
I guess it could be like a prison for
them,

2372
02:30:39,720 --> 02:30:42,920
because, I mean, they are stuck there
and they barely go out.

2373
02:30:45,200 --> 02:30:47,600
- In terms of physically,

2374
02:30:47,600 --> 02:30:50,680
the conditions of the place was very
rundown.

2375
02:30:50,680 --> 02:30:53,480
The fact that she didn't have a door
on their bathroom.

2376
02:30:53,480 --> 02:30:56,680
Like, that's a basic thing to have in
a toilet.

2377
02:30:57,800 --> 02:31:01,240
She said, "Oh, lucky I was awake the
other night at 11 o'clock.

2378
02:31:01,240 --> 02:31:04,800
"There was a snake in our room and it
was poisonous."

2379
02:31:04,800 --> 02:31:07,520
The fact that little babies are in
that environment,

2380
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:09,040
it's pretty horrific.

2381
02:31:10,240 --> 02:31:12,560
I asked my nieces and nephew, the
six-year-old,

2382
02:31:12,560 --> 02:31:14,440
"Oh, can you write your name with me?"

2383
02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:16,480
And he didn't even know how to spell
it,

2384
02:31:16,480 --> 02:31:18,360
let alone write it.

2385
02:31:18,360 --> 02:31:21,240
And that nine-year-old couldn't read.

2386
02:31:21,240 --> 02:31:23,840
Even for Gloriavale standards,

2387
02:31:23,840 --> 02:31:27,800
school here was, like, on a whole
other level of, like,

2388
02:31:27,800 --> 02:31:29,480
"What the hell?"

2389
02:31:29,480 --> 02:31:32,880
- All grassland. All this is for
grazing for cows.

2390
02:31:32,880 --> 02:31:34,160
- How do you plant it, though?

2391
02:31:34,160 --> 02:31:36,240
By hand?
- Yeah.

2392
02:31:36,240 --> 02:31:39,240
- I was really concerned at how my
sister would react

2393
02:31:39,240 --> 02:31:42,520
and how the leader, Faithful, would
interfere

2394
02:31:42,520 --> 02:31:46,240
with me actually being able to have
some time with her.

2395
02:32:12,760 --> 02:32:16,400
I don't trust him because he's part of
the Gloriavale system.

2396
02:32:16,400 --> 02:32:20,240
When you talk to him, it's like the
same sentences

2397
02:32:20,240 --> 02:32:23,400
and the same things that the leaders
in Gloriavale use.

2398
02:32:23,400 --> 02:32:25,280
It's just like another mimic.

2399
02:32:25,280 --> 02:32:28,520
But the thing is, he's following
Hopeful's dream.

2400
02:32:28,520 --> 02:32:29,960
It's not his dream.

2401
02:32:29,960 --> 02:32:31,920
It's what Hopeful wanted.

2402
02:32:57,480 --> 02:32:58,960
Oh, you should protect them.

2403
02:33:00,240 --> 02:33:01,480
Yeah, exactly.

2404
02:33:04,560 --> 02:33:05,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2405
02:33:05,720 --> 02:33:11,240
Part of coming here for me was to know
that what happened to me

2406
02:33:11,240 --> 02:33:15,720
as a child doesn't happen to my nieces
and nephews,

2407
02:33:15,720 --> 02:33:19,840
and nothing happens to my sister in
terms of

2408
02:33:19,840 --> 02:33:22,920
any form of sexual abuse.

2409
02:33:47,240 --> 02:33:49,000
INDISTINCT SPEECH

2410
02:33:58,240 --> 02:34:01,240
He was really concerned that we were
going to go back to New Zealand

2411
02:34:01,240 --> 02:34:05,240
and put him at risk and the community
there at risk.

2412
02:34:05,240 --> 02:34:08,080
I think they're already at risk.

2413
02:34:08,080 --> 02:34:10,960
I have a responsibility of seeing what
I've seen,

2414
02:34:10,960 --> 02:34:13,280
and their normal isn't normal.

2415
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:18,920
That's my youngest niece.

2416
02:34:18,920 --> 02:34:20,400
She's almost two.

2417
02:34:22,960 --> 02:34:26,240
And Mummy's going to have another
baby.

2418
02:34:26,240 --> 02:34:28,720
- Your auntie came a long way to meet
you.

2419
02:34:36,480 --> 02:34:39,400
There was a real feeling of sadness
there.

2420
02:34:39,400 --> 02:34:41,840
And I can't actually shake that still.

2421
02:34:43,680 --> 02:34:45,600
I felt guilty walking away...

2422
02:34:47,240 --> 02:34:48,880
..without my friends and...

2423
02:34:52,440 --> 02:34:54,240
It was really hard for me to see them

2424
02:34:54,240 --> 02:34:55,760
in that position and just...

2425
02:34:55,760 --> 02:34:57,560
And even to think myself...

2426
02:34:57,560 --> 02:35:02,000
Like, I've had three babies with no
support

2427
02:35:02,000 --> 02:35:05,800
from my family just because I left
Gloriavale.

2428
02:35:05,800 --> 02:35:07,240
Yeah, they've...

2429
02:35:07,240 --> 02:35:09,640
One of them's had nine. One's had six.

2430
02:35:09,640 --> 02:35:14,720
And they're stuck in India away from
any friends and family.

2431
02:35:14,720 --> 02:35:16,800
They have each other and that's all.

2432
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:18,680
And there's five of them.

2433
02:35:18,680 --> 02:35:22,000
And, yeah, it breaks my heart to see
them like that.

2434
02:35:23,240 --> 02:35:26,280
And I'd just love to stay there and
help them.

2435
02:35:45,360 --> 02:35:47,480
I'm not sure that they'll have me
back.

2436
02:35:48,840 --> 02:35:51,240
But I definitely want to go home and
think about it

2437
02:35:51,240 --> 02:35:52,720
and see what I can do.

2438
02:35:59,240 --> 02:36:02,200
I just really want to see those kids
have a good life...

2439
02:36:04,160 --> 02:36:07,120
..and understand that God's will for
them isn't to suffer.

2440
02:36:16,560 --> 02:36:21,240
- Precious and her husband didn't
choose to marry each other.

2441
02:36:21,240 --> 02:36:23,600
I think she holds on to the fact that
the Lord's

2442
02:36:23,600 --> 02:36:24,840
going to come back.

2443
02:36:26,240 --> 02:36:31,240
There's not a lot of hope or a future
in terms of...

2444
02:36:31,240 --> 02:36:32,560
What do they look forward to?

2445
02:36:32,560 --> 02:36:33,840
There's nothing.

2446
02:36:47,840 --> 02:36:50,480
I did some, like, drawing with the
kids.

2447
02:36:50,480 --> 02:36:55,920
The two boys drew me two separate
pictures of, like, flowers.

2448
02:36:55,920 --> 02:36:58,600
I'm going to get a tattoo on my arm
of, like,

2449
02:36:58,600 --> 02:37:00,640
the two pictures together.

2450
02:37:05,160 --> 02:37:08,040
It did really confirm to me how lucky
I am

2451
02:37:08,040 --> 02:37:12,560
to actually have choices and to be
independent,

2452
02:37:12,560 --> 02:37:15,360
and to have gotten the education that
I've now gotten.

2453
02:37:17,360 --> 02:37:19,480
And to have control over my life

2454
02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:22,520
and what I eat every day and what
clothes I wear

2455
02:37:22,520 --> 02:37:24,920
and who I am as a person.

2456
02:37:24,920 --> 02:37:27,280
And to have my own individual values.

2457
02:37:30,640 --> 02:37:35,240
I've got to use the knowledge I've
gotten

2458
02:37:35,240 --> 02:37:37,720
from not living in Gloriavale

2459
02:37:37,720 --> 02:37:39,840
to actually help my sister

2460
02:37:39,840 --> 02:37:44,280
and the other women there and their
kids to actually get help.

2461
02:37:46,560 --> 02:37:50,240
- A court has heard Gloriavale women
were entrapped, enslaved

2462
02:37:50,240 --> 02:37:52,520
and lived in servitude at the
Christian community -

2463
02:37:52,520 --> 02:37:54,400
on the final day of a long-running
case.

2464
02:37:54,400 --> 02:37:56,080
- The six women who've brought the
case

2465
02:37:56,080 --> 02:37:59,760
say they worked long, hard hours on
Gloriavale's domestic teams

2466
02:37:59,760 --> 02:38:03,160
and were exposed to workplace sexual
harassment.

2467
02:38:03,160 --> 02:38:06,240
Brian Henry says the community's
leaders were too scared

2468
02:38:06,240 --> 02:38:08,720
to stand up to their dictatorial
founder

2469
02:38:08,720 --> 02:38:11,840
and convicted sex offender Hopeful
Christian.

2470
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:15,240
Chief Judge Christina Inglis says, in
reserving her decision,

2471
02:38:15,240 --> 02:38:17,560
she promised to think hard about the
issues

2472
02:38:17,560 --> 02:38:20,280
and to deliver a judgment as soon as
she...

2473
02:38:28,640 --> 02:38:31,240
- I've got some interesting stuff here
for you both.

2474
02:38:31,240 --> 02:38:36,520
This is clips of your grandfather

2475
02:38:36,520 --> 02:38:40,040
fighting for your freedom before you
were born.

2476
02:38:40,040 --> 02:38:41,560
- Hmm.

2477
02:38:43,960 --> 02:38:47,000
- The church stopped...
- Looks a bit like you.

2478
02:38:47,000 --> 02:38:49,680
- ..in spite of himself, he'll be
blazing fire

2479
02:38:49,680 --> 02:38:52,240
and there'll be carpets all over the
floor

2480
02:38:52,240 --> 02:38:54,520
and sheepskins spread out.

2481
02:38:54,520 --> 02:38:59,240
And maybe anything up to 10, 12
married couples.

2482
02:38:59,240 --> 02:39:01,520
Never would teach on marriage.

2483
02:39:01,520 --> 02:39:05,720
And then finally...he started to teach
on sex.

2484
02:39:05,720 --> 02:39:07,240
And was involved in that

2485
02:39:07,240 --> 02:39:11,520
multiple sexual contact between
married couples.

2486
02:39:11,520 --> 02:39:14,720
And was involved in the nudity...

2487
02:39:14,720 --> 02:39:18,480
- For nine years, he has not seen or
heard from his wife,

2488
02:39:18,480 --> 02:39:22,640
his son and two daughters still living
in the community.

2489
02:39:22,640 --> 02:39:24,120
- And I have 19 grandchildren.

2490
02:39:24,120 --> 02:39:25,640
I only know seven of them.

2491
02:39:25,640 --> 02:39:27,720
- You know seven of your 19
grandchildren?

2492
02:39:29,560 --> 02:39:31,280
- I've never seen the other ones.

2493
02:39:35,360 --> 02:39:36,880
- He had this jar.

2494
02:39:38,520 --> 02:39:42,400
And in the jar was this wooden object.

2495
02:39:42,400 --> 02:39:45,400
And it looked very much like this.

2496
02:39:45,400 --> 02:39:47,480
And he said to me,

2497
02:39:47,480 --> 02:39:52,640
"I'm going to use this to stretch your
muscles."

2498
02:39:55,960 --> 02:39:58,280
I felt like I was being ripped in two.

2499
02:40:22,240 --> 02:40:24,720
- I-I-I just honestly can't believe

2500
02:40:24,720 --> 02:40:27,040
how they can call themselves
Christians.

2501
02:40:27,040 --> 02:40:30,480
I just don't think I can see him in
any other light

2502
02:40:30,480 --> 02:40:33,240
than in just a perverted cult.

2503
02:40:33,240 --> 02:40:38,240
Listening to my grandfather say that,
back then,

2504
02:40:38,240 --> 02:40:41,520
10 or 12 couples, which would be...

2505
02:40:41,520 --> 02:40:45,560
Lots of those leaders would've been in
that circle doing that,

2506
02:40:45,560 --> 02:40:49,520
and yet they can say they didn't know
that it was going on.

2507
02:40:49,520 --> 02:40:51,840
They are just lying.

2508
02:40:51,840 --> 02:40:55,840
Because they themselves have been so
damaged by Neville

2509
02:40:55,840 --> 02:41:00,800
that they will actually back him up in
his evil and perversion.

2510
02:41:00,800 --> 02:41:04,560
The whole underlying foundation of
what Gloriavale is based on

2511
02:41:04,560 --> 02:41:07,240
is based on that.

2512
02:41:07,240 --> 02:41:12,240
But the thing is, is that I grew up in
that culture.

2513
02:41:12,240 --> 02:41:14,480
- A little chip off the grandfather's
block.

2514
02:41:14,480 --> 02:41:15,880
- LAUGHTER

2515
02:41:15,880 --> 02:41:18,000
I've never seen a photo of him before.

2516
02:41:18,000 --> 02:41:22,240
But to even know what he was doing,
even before I was even born,

2517
02:41:22,240 --> 02:41:25,560
I mean, that's just incredible to
watch that.

2518
02:41:33,240 --> 02:41:36,240
PHONE RINGS

2519
02:41:38,440 --> 02:41:40,520
Hello, this is Boaz.

2520
02:41:40,520 --> 02:41:41,960
- Hi, Boaz. How are you?

2521
02:41:41,960 --> 02:41:43,680
- Oh, I'm doing all right.

2522
02:41:43,680 --> 02:41:45,080
- How long have you been out?

2523
02:41:45,080 --> 02:41:47,240
- Er, it's coming up six months now.

2524
02:41:47,240 --> 02:41:48,560
- Not easy, is it?

2525
02:41:48,560 --> 02:41:51,440
- Er, no, it is not easy.

2526
02:41:51,440 --> 02:41:55,680
- You know that I spent quite a bit of
time with your grandpa,

2527
02:41:55,680 --> 02:41:57,920
and also your auntie?

2528
02:41:57,920 --> 02:42:02,400
- Yeah.
- And have you seen the footage of
that?

2529
02:42:02,400 --> 02:42:04,000
- Er, actually I have.

2530
02:42:04,000 --> 02:42:06,280
I happened to watch it last night.

2531
02:42:07,560 --> 02:42:12,240
Well, the thing that actually struck
me the hardest

2532
02:42:12,240 --> 02:42:14,720
was actually the things that he was
talking about

2533
02:42:14,720 --> 02:42:16,440
and the things that he was foreseeing

2534
02:42:16,440 --> 02:42:19,720
that were going to happen have
actually happened,

2535
02:42:19,720 --> 02:42:22,640
and some of them have even happened to
me.

2536
02:42:22,640 --> 02:42:29,000
- He made a very public stand going on
air with us

2537
02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:30,240
and doing those interviews,

2538
02:42:30,240 --> 02:42:33,240
and so did your Auntie Yvette.

2539
02:42:33,240 --> 02:42:37,080
- I think my first thought on hearing
what my auntie was talking about,

2540
02:42:37,080 --> 02:42:41,120
I was just like, "I don't know why I
didn't get out of there sooner."

2541
02:42:41,120 --> 02:42:44,160
- You've got good lineage, you have.

2542
02:42:44,160 --> 02:42:45,480
- Yeah, yeah.

2543
02:42:45,480 --> 02:42:49,240
Up until last night, I thought I was
at the bottom of the tree.

2544
02:42:49,240 --> 02:42:52,120
But, er, yeah, I think after watching
that,

2545
02:42:52,120 --> 02:42:54,520
I feel like I'm a few pegs higher.

2546
02:42:54,520 --> 02:42:56,080
- You should feel like that.

2547
02:42:56,080 --> 02:42:57,480
You should feel...

2548
02:42:57,480 --> 02:42:59,240
Absolutely you should. Because...

2549
02:42:59,240 --> 02:43:01,880
As a very brave and very strong person

2550
02:43:01,880 --> 02:43:06,520
to come out and speak like your
grandfather did.

2551
02:43:06,520 --> 02:43:09,240
- I think what I can do to honour his
memory

2552
02:43:09,240 --> 02:43:11,840
is to actually carry on that fight

2553
02:43:11,840 --> 02:43:14,960
to stop the wrong that's happening.

2554
02:43:14,960 --> 02:43:17,800
I owe it to even the people that I
grew up with,

2555
02:43:17,800 --> 02:43:20,800
and all the people there that have
been hurt and damaged -

2556
02:43:20,800 --> 02:43:23,640
and I owe it to them to fight against
the wrong.

2557
02:43:23,640 --> 02:43:27,240
Not fight against people, but fight
against the wrong that's happening.

2558
02:43:27,240 --> 02:43:29,040
You've got to go down fighting.

2559
02:43:29,040 --> 02:43:32,240
You can't just give up because it
might seem hard.

2560
02:43:32,240 --> 02:43:33,520
Boy.

2561
02:43:42,720 --> 02:43:45,720
- She was explained, you go to India
for the rest of your life

2562
02:43:45,720 --> 02:43:47,000
to build a church.

2563
02:43:47,000 --> 02:43:49,760
- Obviously my sister will be trapped
here?

2564
02:43:49,760 --> 02:43:51,040
- Yeah.
- We'll look after them.

2565
02:43:51,040 --> 02:43:52,640
We've looked after them all these
years, right?

2566
02:43:52,640 --> 02:43:55,720
I believe all those five sisters are
in my hands.

2567
02:43:55,720 --> 02:43:56,880
I really believe that.

2568
02:43:56,880 --> 02:43:58,840
I'm responsible for each one of them.

2569
02:43:58,840 --> 02:44:01,240
- He referred to them as "my sisters".
- Yeah.

2570
02:44:01,240 --> 02:44:04,640
- It's almost like he's possessive
over them and he owns them.

2571
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:06,800
- Yeah.

2572
02:44:06,800 --> 02:44:08,760
- What is rape?

2573
02:44:08,760 --> 02:44:11,880
Raping is... It happens from one side.
- Yeah.

2574
02:44:11,880 --> 02:44:14,320
- Indian men are very forceful around
women.

2575
02:44:14,320 --> 02:44:16,040
It's part of the culture.

2576
02:44:16,040 --> 02:44:19,840
And a lot of Indian men will force
themselves onto a lot of women.

2577
02:44:21,240 --> 02:44:23,240
- It was interesting that he just, out
of the blue,

2578
02:44:23,240 --> 02:44:24,520
said, "What is rape?

2579
02:44:24,520 --> 02:44:26,640
We intended to go there, but he
brought that up.

2580
02:44:26,640 --> 02:44:28,240
What is rape?

2581
02:44:28,240 --> 02:44:31,280
- Why would she not be able to come
back to New Zealand again?

2582
02:44:32,600 --> 02:44:36,240
- The k... The children don't have
passports

2583
02:44:36,240 --> 02:44:39,240
and there's no money to go back.

2584
02:44:39,240 --> 02:44:41,680
- And some of her kids don't have
birth certificates either.

2585
02:44:41,680 --> 02:44:42,920
- Yeah.

2586
02:44:42,920 --> 02:44:44,840
- So they've been living there
undocumented?

2587
02:44:44,840 --> 02:44:46,120
- Yeah.

2588
02:44:46,120 --> 02:44:48,240
- I mean, there is growing concern
internationally

2589
02:44:48,240 --> 02:44:49,400
in terms of human rights,

2590
02:44:49,400 --> 02:44:51,840
particularly of women and children who
are being moved

2591
02:44:51,840 --> 02:44:53,960
across borders.
- Yeah.

2592
02:44:53,960 --> 02:44:57,520
- And sort of first principles, I'd
say,

2593
02:44:57,520 --> 02:45:01,800
some very searching questions need to
be asked.
- Yeah.

2594
02:45:01,800 --> 02:45:04,800
- Can you consent when you're born
into Gloriavale?

2595
02:45:04,800 --> 02:45:08,240
- Yeah, exactly.
- And so we've got people who've been
moved out

2596
02:45:08,240 --> 02:45:11,400
of New Zealand and you have welfare
concerns.

2597
02:45:11,400 --> 02:45:16,400
And so we need to sort of set about
thinking about

2598
02:45:16,400 --> 02:45:18,440
what is the solution to that problem.

2599
02:45:18,440 --> 02:45:20,400
- Yeah.

2600
02:45:20,400 --> 02:45:23,360
- Yeah, it's a very unique situation.

2601
02:45:23,360 --> 02:45:27,800
- She's my sister and she is a person.

2602
02:45:27,800 --> 02:45:32,720
And she deserves the right to live a
full and happy life

2603
02:45:32,720 --> 02:45:37,480
and choose to be her and to be heard.

2604
02:45:37,480 --> 02:45:42,280
And my goal is that I will not let her
be forgotten.

2605
02:45:45,600 --> 02:45:48,560
- A landmark ruling from the
employment court has found

2606
02:45:48,560 --> 02:45:52,240
six former Gloriavale women were
employees

2607
02:45:52,240 --> 02:45:53,600
and not volunteers.

2608
02:45:53,600 --> 02:45:56,640
- The judge said, in a typical week,
the female workforce

2609
02:45:56,640 --> 02:45:59,880
in the kitchen produced more than
11,000 meals,

2610
02:45:59,880 --> 02:46:03,640
and in the laundry they washed 17,000
items.

2611
02:46:03,640 --> 02:46:06,760
- Judge Christina Inglis said she was
left with no doubt

2612
02:46:06,760 --> 02:46:10,640
they worked extremely hard and under
punishing conditions.

2613
02:46:17,360 --> 02:46:20,240
- You've actually put a real stake in
the ground

2614
02:46:20,240 --> 02:46:22,240
in this judgment about the role of
women

2615
02:46:22,240 --> 02:46:25,240
and the expectations that women do
things for free.

2616
02:46:25,240 --> 02:46:29,880
She's also found that you were taught
to be happy

2617
02:46:29,880 --> 02:46:35,440
doing the grind, and the impact, once
you finally get out,

2618
02:46:35,440 --> 02:46:39,000
you haven't been equipped in any way
to deal with it.

2619
02:46:40,240 --> 02:46:42,520
The Overseeing Shepherd is in control,

2620
02:46:42,520 --> 02:46:45,600
and he was actually quite unusual as a
witness

2621
02:46:45,600 --> 02:46:49,240
because he just seemed eager to tell
us how powerful he was.

2622
02:46:49,240 --> 02:46:51,720
And he actually came up and apologised

2623
02:46:51,720 --> 02:46:55,680
to Dennis and me because he thought he
had totally destroyed our case.

2624
02:46:55,680 --> 02:46:58,000
- That's how much they believe in
themselves.

2625
02:46:58,000 --> 02:47:00,240
- Yeah.
- They've totally trapped themselves

2626
02:47:00,240 --> 02:47:01,800
in the culture they created.

2627
02:47:01,800 --> 02:47:05,600
- Yeah, they have. But the thing is,
they totally believe it now.

2628
02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:09,080
Standing up to people that have ruled
your life

2629
02:47:09,080 --> 02:47:10,480
since you were born?

2630
02:47:11,960 --> 02:47:13,280
Pretty courageous.

2631
02:47:21,000 --> 02:47:25,240
- I haven't been allowed to speak or
have an opinion my whole life.

2632
02:47:25,240 --> 02:47:28,240
Just being able to speak and tell my
story -

2633
02:47:28,240 --> 02:47:32,280
and then for it to be believed - was
just so incredible.

2634
02:47:37,240 --> 02:47:39,480
- We've been successful.

2635
02:47:39,480 --> 02:47:42,240
Smells like slavery, sounds like
slavery,

2636
02:47:42,240 --> 02:47:43,840
in my opinion is slavery.

2637
02:47:43,840 --> 02:47:46,680
But this is the nature of the
organisation,

2638
02:47:46,680 --> 02:47:49,440
and they are built on child labour.

2639
02:47:49,440 --> 02:47:52,720
The evidence from Gloriavale is this
will end their way of life.

2640
02:47:52,720 --> 02:47:53,920
We'll see.

2641
02:47:59,640 --> 02:48:01,240
- I can say something.
- Yes, go on.

2642
02:48:01,240 --> 02:48:02,440
- OK, Pearl.

2643
02:48:02,440 --> 02:48:05,240
- Gloriavale feels like they're
victims in this case.

2644
02:48:05,240 --> 02:48:07,520
And they are victims, but not of this
case.

2645
02:48:07,520 --> 02:48:09,800
They're victims of the culture they've
created,

2646
02:48:09,800 --> 02:48:11,560
and that's what we want to see
changed.

2647
02:48:11,560 --> 02:48:14,000
We want to see the culture changed.

2648
02:48:14,000 --> 02:48:15,240
- Woohoo!

2649
02:48:15,240 --> 02:48:17,280
- # Don't you know who I am?

2650
02:48:21,120 --> 02:48:23,800
# Don't you know who I am?

2651
02:48:27,360 --> 02:48:30,480
# Don't you know who I am?

2652
02:48:35,080 --> 02:48:37,880
# It's God's will to stamp what's mine

2653
02:48:37,880 --> 02:48:41,600
# It's God's word that bites your
tongue and marks me divine

2654
02:48:41,600 --> 02:48:44,640
# The moment we lay our hands on the
world, she's disfigured

2655
02:48:44,640 --> 02:48:46,240
# Hell, we can touch her up... #

2656
02:48:46,240 --> 02:48:47,800
- Here you go.

2657
02:48:47,800 --> 02:48:49,240
That'll do, won't it?

2658
02:48:49,240 --> 02:48:50,800
You can one-armband it.

2659
02:48:52,360 --> 02:48:54,640
- # Don't you know who I am? #

2660
02:48:56,480 --> 02:48:58,960
- Often we don't want to tell our
whole story.

2661
02:48:58,960 --> 02:49:02,680
But it's a service we have to humanity

2662
02:49:02,680 --> 02:49:05,240
sometimes to tell our story.

2663
02:49:05,240 --> 02:49:07,800
- # Don't you know who I am? #

2664
02:49:07,800 --> 02:49:09,680
- Hey.
- How are you?
- Hiya, mate.

2665
02:49:09,680 --> 02:49:12,480
- Yeah.
- Haven't seen you for years and
years.

2666
02:49:12,480 --> 02:49:14,360
- To say, "To right the wrongs,"

2667
02:49:14,360 --> 02:49:16,760
that'd be a pretty high calling.

2668
02:49:16,760 --> 02:49:20,240
I don't think that's something I'd be
capable of.

2669
02:49:20,240 --> 02:49:23,960
But I try to live life by making every
encounter

2670
02:49:23,960 --> 02:49:28,480
with every person, to try and be
genuine, kind and honest.

2671
02:49:29,520 --> 02:49:32,000
- It's really you that I've come over
here to see.

2672
02:49:32,000 --> 02:49:36,240
Well, when I say you, that's you and,
and, and, and.

2673
02:49:36,240 --> 02:49:39,520
- # Don't you know who I am? #

2674
02:49:40,760 --> 02:49:42,560
- The discussion went something like
this.

2675
02:49:42,560 --> 02:49:44,240
- Haven't seen you for ages!

2676
02:49:44,240 --> 02:49:46,760
How are you?
- Yeah, I'm OK.

2677
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:52,240
Admitting to the faults and failings
of the past

2678
02:49:52,240 --> 02:49:55,080
and trying to move on from them.

2679
02:49:55,080 --> 02:49:58,280
- # Don't you know who I am? #

2680
02:50:04,080 --> 02:50:05,720
CHILDREN:
- Fireworks!

2681
02:50:05,720 --> 02:50:11,680
Fireworks!

2682
02:50:11,680 --> 02:50:13,840
- CHEERING

2683
02:50:21,800 --> 02:50:23,960
- It's going to be really nice to
bring my kids over

2684
02:50:23,960 --> 02:50:25,520
and for them to meet...

2685
02:50:25,520 --> 02:50:27,520
- Yeah.
- To meet all the other kids.

2686
02:50:27,520 --> 02:50:29,440
- Catch up with their friends that
they had.
- That's right.

2687
02:50:29,440 --> 02:50:31,480
Because some of them they haven't seen
for years.

2688
02:50:32,760 --> 02:50:34,880
- The best thing about life on the
outside

2689
02:50:34,880 --> 02:50:36,560
is our family being a family.

2690
02:50:37,920 --> 02:50:41,800
And I know that we could lose
everything we've acquired

2691
02:50:41,800 --> 02:50:43,680
over the past nine to ten years,

2692
02:50:43,680 --> 02:50:47,320
and material things can come and go,

2693
02:50:47,320 --> 02:50:49,880
friends can come and go,

2694
02:50:49,880 --> 02:50:53,480
but our family would still be a
family.

2695
02:50:53,480 --> 02:50:55,040
And that's all that matters.

2696
02:50:55,040 --> 02:50:56,600
- Like, you're actually almost just...

2697
02:50:56,600 --> 02:50:59,120
- LAUGHTER
What the heck is this?

2698
02:50:59,120 --> 02:51:01,240
- It's my hair, Mum!
- Wow!

2699
02:51:01,240 --> 02:51:02,600
It's beautiful.

2700
02:51:07,760 --> 02:51:09,280
- Oh, I tell you what!

2701
02:51:10,800 --> 02:51:12,280
- Enjoy it!

2702
02:51:31,680 --> 02:51:34,680
- Gloriavale's Overseeing Shepherd,
Howard Temple,

2703
02:51:34,680 --> 02:51:38,240
can tonight be revealed as the man
accused of indecent assault

2704
02:51:38,240 --> 02:51:40,280
against ten young girls.

2705
02:51:41,440 --> 02:51:43,960
- It's alleged he offended over two
decades

2706
02:51:43,960 --> 02:51:47,000
involving Gloriavale residents, some
as young as nine.

2707
02:51:47,000 --> 02:51:48,920
- Howard, do you have any comment to
make about the allegations?

2708
02:51:48,920 --> 02:51:51,120
- Not at this time.

2709
02:51:51,120 --> 02:51:54,960
- They want to destroy every good
thing in your life.

2710
02:51:56,440 --> 02:51:58,040
But I won't let them.

2711
02:52:01,200 --> 02:52:02,840
The day will come...

2712
02:52:07,240 --> 02:52:09,720
..when people will be able to...

2713
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:12,840
..make their own decisions...

2714
02:52:14,600 --> 02:52:18,240
..and to have a time of sorting out...

2715
02:52:19,600 --> 02:52:22,920
..all the years that have gone past.

2716
02:52:22,920 --> 02:52:24,280
Yeah.

2717
02:52:26,680 --> 02:52:28,120
That day will come.

2718
02:52:32,600 --> 02:52:34,320
- # Before the dark

2719
02:52:34,320 --> 02:52:38,480
# When, all the candles, they were lit
to form a pyre

2720
02:52:38,480 --> 02:52:42,240
# Till the cool air She was a liar

2721
02:52:42,240 --> 02:52:47,280
# And in the heat I sang your name and
my desire

2722
02:52:47,280 --> 02:52:50,280
# Ooh

2723
02:53:00,240 --> 02:53:01,800
# We burned the night

2724
02:53:01,800 --> 02:53:05,920
# I was the earth beneath your feet
and you the light

2725
02:53:05,920 --> 02:53:10,240
# And I can see me in your eyes

2726
02:53:10,240 --> 02:53:12,960
# Close enough to catch a glimpse
ahead what lies. #