1 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,920 Just take a look at the number of people that have been living 2 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,600 on planet Earth. 3 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,240 We start about 10,000 years ago. 4 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:26,520 At that point there were roughly five million people 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,680 living on the planet, 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,560 and they slowly increased in number 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,160 for some considerable time, up until we get to 1800. 8 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:40,680 Well, then we get one billion people on the planet. 9 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,560 And by the time we get to 1960, we get three billion. 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,160 And then things go wild and it escalates massively 11 00:00:49,160 --> 00:00:53,800 up here, to the 7.7 billion people 12 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,040 that we've got on planet Earth right now. 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,000 The UN predicts that by 2050 14 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,400 there'll be almost ten billion humans on planet Earth. 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,960 We all know about the pressures our planet is under from climate change. 16 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:14,400 We exist because of nature, 17 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,040 and that nature is really falling apart. 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,680 But I believe we're facing another challenge 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,920 which is just as fundamental. 20 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,760 Within the last six generations 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,200 we've gone through the biggest population explosion of our species. 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,280 I'm going on a personal journey around the world to find out 23 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,880 what effect our growing population is having on the planet right now. 24 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:40,000 This is Earth, vast consumption. 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,840 We honestly think that we can carry on doing this? 26 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,040 And to find out if there's any limit to the number 27 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,400 of people our Earth can sustain. 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,960 Things are probably going to get fairly uncomfortable and pretty ugly 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,400 before we fix it, aren't they? 30 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,080 I think there are systems in place. 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,920 I just think we've rather lost the plot. 32 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:03,760 If, as I believe, our ever increasing numbers 33 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,920 may in fact be a threat to our own survival, 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,040 could we find a way, as a species, 35 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,000 to reduce our own population? 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,600 Someone's got to talk about this issue 37 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,960 whilst there's still some chance that we can solve the problem. 38 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,200 Hey, come on. 39 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,240 Yeah, let's go. Come on, hurry up. 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,280 All right, come on, come on, come on. 41 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,760 I live on my own in the middle of the woods with my dogs. 42 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,480 Scratchy fell down the stairs a couple of days ago 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,040 and I've been told that I mustn't appease his limp or carry him 44 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,320 or anything like that. 45 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Come on, Scratch. 46 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,200 Ever since I can remember, I've dedicated my life to one thing. 47 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:06,120 I have a profound love for every last thing that 48 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,760 slimes, creeps, crawls, stings, bites and slithers. 49 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,880 I fight really hard against injustices 50 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,960 that are wrought upon the natural world. 51 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,760 They're incendiary to me. 52 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,920 I'm a patron of a charity that campaigns to achieve 53 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,200 a sustainable human population. 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,320 If I'm very honest with you, most of the time I don't hold the human 55 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,160 species in terribly high regard because of the enormous damage 56 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,480 that it's done to the natural environment 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,120 and it's still doing to it. 58 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,600 But at the same time, I am a human and there are lots of humans 59 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,040 that I have an enormous admiration for. 60 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,040 When you think about what we're capable of in terms of art, 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,760 music, technology, we are remarkably adaptable, 62 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,600 resourceful and intelligent. 63 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,360 Nothing else comes close to us. 64 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,120 But there are 7.7 billion humans on the planet at the moment. 65 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,880 So what's the impact of that? 66 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,640 Is that a sustainable number of people? 67 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,920 Or do we need to be considering how we adapt our behaviour 68 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,760 to make that sustainable, or even going as far as to stopping 69 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,000 the population growing much more? 70 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,040 And there, I've said it. 71 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,400 That's the controversy, isn't it? 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:27,000 For me, it's been THE most important thing 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,400 to think about for a long time. 74 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,480 It is undeniably the elephant in the room. 75 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,880 So how did we get to 7.7 billion in the first place? 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,600 And what's going to happen if by 2050 77 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,640 there were ten billion humans on planet Earth? 78 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,440 One of the biggest changes that's occurred in my lifetime 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,040 is the sheer number of people living in urban centres. 80 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:01,880 There are now more than 30 so-called mega cities in the world 81 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,960 with ten million people or more, 82 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,360 not just New York, Shanghai and Tokyo, 83 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,800 but also Kinshasa, Lima, Mumbai. 84 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:18,320 Such concentrations of people places a major pressure on resources. 85 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,440 We definitely are at a turning point, a tipping point, 86 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,880 and I think all sorts of factors are coming together. 87 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,880 We have obviously huge climate change issues, 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,840 environmental resource issues. 89 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:32,960 And I think the next two or three decades, 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,640 yes, are going to be crucial. 91 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,960 Look at it, just endless sprawl to the horizon. 92 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,960 I'm starting my journey in one of the world's 93 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:52,760 most populated megacities. 94 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,240 Land, a carpet of concrete blocks 95 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,000 filled full of millions and millions and millions of people. 96 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,880 In 1960, Sao Paolo was home to roughly four million people. 97 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,760 Today, as the city's grown, it's more like 22 million. 98 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,000 You can see here on the right side how many buildings we have. 99 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,040 It's the financial capital of Brazil and one of South America's most 100 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:26,360 important economic and cultural centres, a bit like London, 101 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,440 only five times the size. 102 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,960 These mega cities, you think of the impact and the consumption, 103 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,600 the hunger and the thirst and the dependent need 104 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,000 of all of these people living in one place at one time. 105 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,760 The prediction is that by 2050, nearly 70% of the human population 106 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,960 are going to be living in these areas. 107 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,640 What's going to be the impact of that? 108 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,880 Cities are associated with higher levels of consumption 109 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,880 because they have higher levels of productivity 110 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:00,360 than rural areas. 111 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,680 And it's very clear that the richer countries actually have... 112 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,560 ..levels of consumption that really outweigh everything 113 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,200 that the planet can sustain. 114 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,160 But on the other hand, the cities themselves have the potential 115 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,920 to make that consumption more efficient. 116 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,480 Although Sao Paulo's levels of consumption aren't as high 117 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,320 as some places in the world, the traffic here is so notorious 118 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,520 that the city's wealthy businesspeople 119 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,400 often get around by helicopter. 120 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,680 But Sao Paolo has a more fundamental problem - 121 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,480 it's running out of water. 122 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,360 Starting in 2014, reservoirs almost ran dry 123 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:45,440 as the city suffered one of its worst droughts since records began. 124 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,600 Now, some residents are taking matters into their own hands. 125 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,920 CHRIS KNOCKS ON DOOR 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,200 Hello. Hola. Chris. 127 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,000 How do you do? How do you do? 128 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,080 Is that a purifier? Purifier, yes, it is. 129 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,920 And does all of the water here need to be purified? 130 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,640 You can't trust it out the tap, no? No, we can't. 131 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,000 We can't trust the water that comes from the pipe. 132 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,080 You have a family. 133 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,080 Many parents worry about whether their children will go out 134 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,360 and get an adequate education or whether they will find employment 135 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,200 and some sense of fulfilment and contentment in their life, 136 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,680 but here in Sao Paulo, you've got to hope that your kids 137 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,480 are going to grow up and be able to get a drink of water, 138 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,800 which is fundamentally different. 139 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,760 That must be a real concern to you. 140 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,800 Yes, it is. Yes, it is. 141 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,640 The population will be bigger 142 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,880 in some years with the same amount of water. 143 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,880 So the problem, er, will be worst 144 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,240 in a few years, in a short period of time. 145 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,120 So... It's not good? 146 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,120 No, no, it's terrifying. 147 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:03,240 It's terrifying. 148 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:09,720 Maria and her neighbours are paying to secure their own private water 149 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,360 source, drawn directly from the ground outside their block. 150 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:16,480 Hola. Hola. 151 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,360 Chris. Chris, Emerson. Emerson. 152 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,680 Are you well? Yes. Good, good. 153 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,520 It's a bit like Texas, when they were digging oil wells everywhere 154 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,800 in that mad rush for the oil. 155 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,400 And now it's not the oil business, it's the water business, 156 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,040 it's a water boom. 157 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,920 Across Sao Paolo, over 13,000 private wells have already been dug. 158 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,240 But with the poorest parts of the city often suffering the most 159 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,360 from the droughts, protests have erupted in the streets. 160 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,520 Unless you reduce consumption, the original aquifers, 161 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,760 the original source of water is going to run dry. 162 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,880 Climate change doesn't help. 163 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,920 You know, in some regions, rain is becoming more and more scarce. 164 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,160 It is a major, major problem of mixture of climate change 165 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,680 and individual consumption levels. 166 00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:38,600 In Sao Paulo, they're digging their own wells. 167 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,000 We've already seen water riots where people without water 168 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,840 are clearly upset with this disparity. Yes. 169 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,440 When the fundamentals of life, like water, are decided 170 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,680 by whether you're rich or poor, 171 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:55,760 that's not going to be sustainable, is it? I agree. 172 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,400 The trouble is, we don't have control over climate change. 173 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:03,000 So the minute the rivers dry up or there's, there's a drought 174 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,320 that lasts for years, then you have to resort to major measures 175 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,560 like desalination, like bringing water even further out, 176 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:13,480 as Los Angeles does. 177 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,720 Los Angeles brings in water from hundreds of kilometres away. 178 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:20,560 And therefore, there's an issue of justice. 179 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:23,880 You're depriving local people from the water that is theirs 180 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,800 in a region because you're feeding this large city. 181 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:28,440 So it's a very difficult problem. 182 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,960 All over the planet, cities like Los Angeles, Cape Town 183 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,280 and even Tokyo have faced severe water problems. 184 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:45,680 And it's predicted that within 25 years, London could be next. 185 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,920 Erm.. Wow, it's very impressive. 186 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,880 We're monitoring here, all Brazil. 187 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,800 In Sao Paolo, the droughts have become so serious that a team 188 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,960 of government scientists now continuously monitor rainfall. 189 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,040 This is fabulous, isn't it? 190 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,640 I love data, and this is real time data on a continental scale. Yeah. 191 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,360 But this presumably is also the interface 192 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,680 where you look at a shortage of rain. 193 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:18,440 This is for the short term rainfall. 194 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:21,600 But, for example, for drought, we use this for infrastructure also. 195 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,160 So this is effectively the emergency room. 196 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,360 Yes, we now have a mapping for all Brazil 197 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:30,800 to see where regions of Brazil 198 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,880 are suffering with droughts. 199 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,120 For the drought, we are concerning about this region 200 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,120 and the north-east. The north-east too? 201 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,000 Yes, north-east too. 202 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,240 This is a very, very critical situation right now. 203 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,480 What about reservoirs here to store the water? 204 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,720 But they are very dry now. 205 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,920 The reservoirs are dry? They're dry. 206 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,200 Key to the weather system of South America 207 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,280 is the largest rainforest in the world - the Amazon. 208 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Looking up here into the Amazonian region up here... 209 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,080 Now we see the raining season there. 210 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,960 Yeah, but there's not a lot of rain, is there? 211 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,480 No, it's not a lot. 212 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,680 It's quite a difficult situation because 213 00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:16,880 there are a lot of, erm, deforestations. 214 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,120 We are suffering with droughts. 215 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,800 This area are suffering a lot. 216 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,840 It's not just the Amazon. 217 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,440 Sao Paolo is surrounded by some of Brazil's 218 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:38,000 most important ecosystems - the Cerrado and the Atlantic forests. 219 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,120 We've been driving for hours through this forest. 220 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,480 What should it be like? 221 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,040 Well, it should be one of the most biodiverse forests anywhere 222 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,280 in the world for the jaguars, the toucans, the giant otters 223 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,760 and thousands of species, many of them endemic, 224 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:00,560 meaning that you find them here and nowhere else. 225 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,640 This area, like so many other natural habitats across the globe, 226 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,520 has been decimated by agriculture, cattle ranching 227 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,560 and other commercial uses. 228 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,800 This activity is not without consequences. 229 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,880 In the period that the human population has doubled, 230 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,760 approximately my lifetime, it's been suggested that on average 231 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,920 the overall size of wildlife populations has halved. 232 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,440 I mean, look at that. 233 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,360 That is a view of a global catastrophe. 234 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,520 Because this is a portend of, of doom. 235 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,360 There's no way round it. 236 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:43,080 We've got a massive collapse in biodiversity, which makes our 237 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,320 very tenure on the planet perilous. 238 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,320 The trees that grow, the crops that grow from the soil, 239 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,000 the fish that grow in the sea. 240 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,240 If we exterminate all of them and make them non-functional, 241 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,240 then we are non-functional. 242 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,760 One of the main reasons we're still cutting down so much 243 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,600 of the Earth's natural habitat is to create more farmland, 244 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,680 so we can grow more food to feed our ever increasing population. 245 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,520 Hello, boys. 246 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,040 Oh, look at the size of those. 247 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,600 They're an antithesis of a poodle, aren't they? 248 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,680 Hello, Frederico. Chris, how do you do? 249 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,520 I've come to meet a producer of one of Brazil's most important 250 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,560 agricultural exports - soy. 251 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,800 We are in 1,360 hectares 252 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,480 of the full area. 253 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,920 It's that a big farm for this part of the world? 254 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,720 For Sao Paolo, it's like big. Yeah. 255 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,840 THUNDERCLAP 256 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,640 Let's get more inside the umbrella here. 257 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,880 Soy is an increasingly vital crop. 258 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:04,520 It's used around the planet as animal feed to help farmers cope 259 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,520 with our ever increasing appetite for meat. 260 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:14,280 Farming, it's the same farming of our grandfathers. 261 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,720 What is the alternative? I don't know the alternative. 262 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,440 What about the fact that the soybean is being grown 263 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,600 as animal food because the world's eating more meat? Yes. 264 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,640 Now, that's not a good thing. 265 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,560 If we were... No. If we were eating your soy because it produces 266 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,120 the protein, lots of protein, it's a remarkable crop, 267 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,000 if we were eating that directly and not feeding it to cattle 268 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,000 or pigs in China... No. ..then that would help, wouldn't it? 269 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,080 I'm making food for these people. 270 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:40,960 But there are more and more of them. 271 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,320 So what I'm asking you is, how are you going to make enough 272 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,360 food for all of those people? 273 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,760 Ultimately, not perhaps you, but how are we going to make 274 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,800 enough food for all of those people without cutting down 275 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,880 all of the forest? 276 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,320 If you want to make this kind of, of, of, 277 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:02,320 more than we make, we need to feed them. 278 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,400 Right, here's a personal question. Do you eat meat every day? 279 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,480 Almost. Almost every day. Yeah. 280 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,800 What about if you just cut down to like three days a week, 281 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,360 two days a week? 282 00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:14,120 That would ease the pressure so you wouldn't have to grow quite 283 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:17,520 as much soy to send to the Chinese or to feed to the cattle here 284 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:18,640 on the ranch land. 285 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,920 The problem is not the habit, 286 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,480 the problem is the quantity of people. 287 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,040 Exactly. Yeah. 288 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,800 When people say how many people can the planet take, 289 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,240 well, in actual fact, it could take billions and billions and billions. 290 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,920 But, A, our lifestyles would be very different, 291 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,840 and also we share this planet with other species. 292 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:46,560 And if we want to maintain a balanced planet where there 293 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:50,960 are other species other than human beings living, and we live the kind 294 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,000 of quality of life that we experience and would like our 295 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,840 future generations to experience, then clearly we have to look at 296 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,920 what maximum world population is. 297 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,160 And we also have to look at the consumption 298 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:04,720 of that maximum world population. 299 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:12,720 Before leaving this region, I visit the adjacent farm. 300 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,760 Here they don't grow food, they grow eucalyptus trees. 301 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,640 It's a fast growing timber. 302 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,240 It's often used to make paper products, including toilet rolls. 303 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,720 I'm thinking that this is one of the ugliest places on the planet. 304 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,960 Which is a tragedy, because we should be being serenaded 305 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,520 by a remarkable cacophony of birdsong. 306 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:44,360 Listen, what can we hear? 307 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,840 The dry rustle of an Australian tree... 308 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:56,720 .thousands of miles away from where it should be. 309 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,840 It's not all about wildlife either, that's the other thing. 310 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,280 I don't want you to think that I'm standing here 311 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,280 because I'm distressed that we've lost a few birds. 312 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,280 This is about you and I. 313 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,800 This is about our species. 314 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,840 You know, for me personally, the greatest source of embarrassment 315 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,920 is that this has happened in my lifetime. 316 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,320 I can't help but feel a colossal sense of personal failure. 317 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,000 We're destroying something of remarkable 318 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,440 and possibly unique beauty. 319 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:32,040 We don't know that there's any other planet out there 320 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,760 with all of this stuff on, this beautiful stuff. 321 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,400 You know... 322 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:41,240 I can get down on my knees 323 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,880 and I can see the world in a grain of sand 324 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,160 and heaven in a wild flower. 325 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,880 I can hold infinity in the palm of my hand, an eternity in an hour, 326 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,000 and it costs me nothing, I can do in my own back yard, 327 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,120 I can find that beauty. 328 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:59,520 What right have we got to vandalise that beauty? 329 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,800 Everything, everything seems to be beautiful but us. 330 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,480 As a young boy, there was one man who inspired my love 331 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,040 of the natural world more than any other. 332 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,280 There is more meaning and mutual understanding 333 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:34,280 in exchanging a glance with a gorilla... 334 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,160 ..than any other animal I know. 335 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,960 When Sir David Attenborough was born, 336 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:45,040 the population of the world was just two billion. 337 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:50,080 Like me, he's a patron of the charity Population Matters. 338 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,480 Can I draw upon your great depth of experience? 339 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,360 You've had a remarkable opportunity to travel and see the world, 340 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:09,640 and you've measured it and you've seen massive changes. 341 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,280 Well, the changes are all destruction. 342 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,080 That's where we are. 343 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,760 Borneo, for example, you travel down the rivers 344 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,000 that I travelled down 50 years ago, 345 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,320 and you think it's going to be the same. 346 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:27,680 It looks the same until you walk 20 yards away from the river 347 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,320 and you're at a plantation, but there's one species of plant 348 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,360 and virtually nothing else. 349 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,720 I mean, not only no other plant 350 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,840 but there are hardly any animals, hardly any birds, 351 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,280 the place is a green desert. 352 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,800 And that's hard. 353 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,040 And, of course, you say to yourself, how terrible this is, 354 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,640 but why is it? 355 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,280 Well, the reason is because the world population has increased 356 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,600 so fantastically over the past 20, 30 years that people 357 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,560 pay a lot of money in order to be fed. 358 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,040 And so who can blame the people for knocking down the forests? 359 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,080 Everyone's got to eat. That's right. 360 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,280 And, of course, here we become contentious, 361 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,640 and of course it's very difficult to talk about because the right 362 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:19,280 to have children is one of the most precious rights that people have 363 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,200 biologically, deeply embedded in our very 364 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,760 personalities and souls. 365 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,000 It's a difficult discussion, isn't it? People are terrified of it. 366 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:30,640 No, it is. 367 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,160 Is this the first child's birth you've observed? 368 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,640 Yes, it is. Human, birth, yeah. 369 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,280 Plenty of other species. Yes. 370 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,480 BABY CRIES 371 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,800 While you're watching this programme, 372 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,360 around the world, more than 16,000 babies will be born. 373 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,400 Explain to me more fundamentally the mechanics of how a population 374 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,680 continues to grow and expand. 375 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,680 If you're looking at the world as a whole, 376 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,960 you only have to worry about births and deaths. 377 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,360 The growth depends on life expectancy. 378 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:33,080 Every one of us on average is here for longer. 379 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,600 So, at any one time, there are more of us. 380 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,720 The second factor is how many babies we have. 381 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,200 And tiny changes in the number of babies that we have 382 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,760 will have a big effect in the future. 383 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:50,800 Across the world, if the birth rate was 2.1 babies per woman, 384 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,960 known as replacement rate fertility, 385 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,480 the total population would eventually stabilise. 386 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,880 But currently, the global average is 2.4 babies, 387 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,360 and that tiny difference, when applied to a large number of people, 388 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:11,520 means that our population is continuing to grow. 389 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,680 And because 2.4 is an average, there are parts of the world 390 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:20,120 where the birth rate is still much higher. 391 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,800 Let's not mince words, 392 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,560 I live in a middle class, comfortable part of the UK. 393 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,160 The population's grown in my lifetime, 394 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,560 the traffic jams have grown, the supermarket queues have grown. 395 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,640 But nevertheless, there are places in the world where too many people 396 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,440 is a lot more of a problem than it is here. 397 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,800 TRAFFIC DIN 398 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,640 I've come to one of the fastest growing mega cities in the world. 399 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,200 CHATTER AND HORNS BLARE 400 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:07,240 In 1970, Lagos, a city smaller than Greater London, 401 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,440 was home to just 1.4 million people. 402 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,240 Today, some estimate that that figure is closer 403 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,280 to 20 million. 404 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560 And, you know, travelling around the city, I think I've seen about 405 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,400 three trees, I've counted about four species of bird. 406 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,480 This is what fast population, urban, you know, 407 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,680 density of population is all about, isn't it? 408 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,520 There goes a leopard. 409 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,560 Nigeria has one of the highest birth rates in the world, 410 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,640 an average of five babies per woman. 411 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,720 By 2050, the UN predicts Nigeria's population will more than double 412 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:06,000 from 195 million to 400 million, 413 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,360 which will make it the third most populous nation on Earth. 414 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,920 But although the overall population of Sub-Saharan Africa is going up, 415 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,600 the average birth rate is coming down. 416 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,240 At the moment, the average number of children they have across Africa 417 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,240 as a whole is four. 418 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,400 And there's been a big fall down to get to that four. 419 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,360 What the hope is, is that the reduction in Africa continues. 420 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,080 This is all being very optimistic. 421 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,560 All it takes is an economic crash and disarray, 422 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,920 a war, a famine. 423 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,640 Whenever we have something that is disastrous to the population, 424 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,080 human beings respond by having more babies 425 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:52,880 than they would normally have. 426 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,520 As Lagos has grown, so too have the parts of the city 427 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,320 where people have very little. 428 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,160 On the edge of Lagos Lagoon is a place that began life 429 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,360 as a tiny fishing village. 430 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,720 Now, it's a small city in itself, built on reclaimed mounds 431 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,720 of compacted rubbish with stilt houses on the water. 432 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,200 What an amazing place. 433 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,880 It's one of most extraordinary places I've ever been. 434 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,680 It's difficult to accurately know how many people are living here. 435 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,000 Some say it's in the tens or hundreds of thousands. 436 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,280 But my guide, Benjamin, a local teacher, 437 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,240 is convinced it's much more. 438 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,920 How many people are living here? HE SIGHS 439 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,080 One or two million. 440 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,560 Not in here? In this water. 441 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,720 But how do two million people survive here? 442 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,840 There's nowhere to grow any food. 443 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,640 There's nowhere to collect any firewood, there's no trees growing. 444 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,080 How do they live? 445 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,040 It's difficult, it's very difficult. 446 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,760 BENJAMIN CHUCKLES 447 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,840 I don't know, but you can't help but appreciate humanity a bit more. 448 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,960 We are so resourceful, adaptable, intelligent, 449 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,600 we can survive anywhere and these people are surviving on the edge 450 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,600 of where people can survive. 451 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:54,200 The birth rate in this community seems to be above Nigeria's average. 452 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,400 You were one of 15 children? 453 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,760 The reason that people have had large families, not only in Africa, 454 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,360 but all around the world, have principally 455 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,200 been down to a couple of key things. 456 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,280 Firstly, child mortality. 457 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,320 IE, if child mortality is high, you have to give birth 458 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,920 to a large number of children in order to successfully reproduce. 459 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,640 And secondly, that they were based on rural economies 460 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,040 where the children were the workforce. 461 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,240 White man, you are welcome. Is that what they're saying? 462 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,000 They're happy to see you. CHILDREN CHANT 463 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,560 All over the world, there's a direct correlation between people's living 464 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,640 standards, their access to clean water, health care and sanitation 465 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,920 and their birth rate. 466 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,600 As we increase the standard of living of African countries, 467 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,000 so they will follow the traditional pattern 468 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,080 and reduce their child-bearing. 469 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,400 And the reason why that is so significant is that the UN 470 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,360 maximum world population projections are based on the idea that the whole 471 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,600 world will converge, roughly replacement, round about 2060. 472 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,160 As living standards go up, so too does life expectancy, 473 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,560 and this also adds to the growth in population. 474 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,480 Across the globe, the overall increase in the age 475 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,320 to which we're living to is now a significant driver of our numbers. 476 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,440 My dad is 86 years old. 477 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,680 He had an aneurysm, an aortic aneurysm, 478 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,480 which very nearly killed him. 479 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,320 He then didn't recover properly and had a heart attack. 480 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,560 He's had stents, he's got two new hips, 481 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,320 he's had both of his eyes treated for cataracts. 482 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,560 Growing up, it was my dad that helped nurture my love 483 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,000 of the natural world. 484 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,680 Now I'm doing my bit to look after him. 485 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,720 God's truth! 486 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,920 All right, I'll move the seat forward in a minute. 487 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,840 So are they still checking on your eyes now? Yes, I've got to go back. 488 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,280 But apart from that, I'm relatively fit. 489 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,800 100 years ago, there were people who lived into their 80s and 90s, 490 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,120 but as a result of modern medicine, nowhere near the numbers living 491 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,360 to that age today. 492 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,600 By historical standards, my dad is very fortunate to still be here. 493 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,640 You go in and do your thing, then, 494 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,240 and then text me or ring me and I'll come and pick you up. 495 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,440 So being a dutiful son, I'm dropping my father at the hospital. 496 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,480 Let's be honest about it, he really shouldn't be here. 497 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,280 This whole building, all of the brilliant people 498 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,960 that are working here, all of the science which has given them 499 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,800 the capacity to work here, it's, in some sort of perverse way, 500 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,280 it's sort of anti biology, isn't it? 501 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:47,360 Because they're doing everything they can as a hospital to keep 502 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,240 people alive, when really people are meant to die 503 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,480 and they're meant to die so that others replace them 504 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,120 and the population remains in a sort of harmony. 505 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,400 I don't want my dad to die, very obviously, 506 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,360 I don't want to die, very obviously. 507 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:06,880 It's unpopular, isn't it, 508 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880 to talk about the repercussions of saving lives? 509 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,080 We've been so good at saving lives, but we haven't 510 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,520 been so good at thinking about what to do 511 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:18,200 because we've saved them. 512 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,920 At the moment, half our population is going to make it over 80 513 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,920 and an increasing number are going to be living 514 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,760 in their 90s, and even over 100. 515 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,520 So, in fact, we know that by 2040 we are going to have a massive 516 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,720 increase in the number of people approaching death, and it's going 517 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:41,000 to be exacerbated by the fact that the large baby boom coming through 518 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,640 is all going to face that death roughly at the same time. 519 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,400 To a certain extent, we are reaching a crunch time. 520 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Many governments around the world are now worried 521 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,400 about a population imbalance. 522 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,720 Too many old people and not enough young people to support them. 523 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,400 In the UK, our birth rate has fallen below replacement level. 524 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,720 The average woman now has around 1.7 babies. 525 00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:15,760 In Japan, it's even lower, just 1.4 babies. 526 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,360 Whenever people try to encourage women to have more children, 527 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,440 it generally fails. 528 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,800 Sweden's trying, France tries, Istanbul in Turkey are trying 529 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,040 because obviously it's a big thing to have a child. 530 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,560 The key factor worldwide is the power of women. 531 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,680 Getting the balance right is difficult. 532 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:43,720 China claims its one-child policy prevented 400 million births, 533 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:47,640 but it clearly came at a cost that none of us can countenance. 534 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,400 TV COMMENTARY: Many social ills are being blamed 535 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,280 on the one-child only rule, 536 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,760 which aims to keep China's population round about one billion. 537 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,760 Some parents secretly kill newborn girls because they depend on 538 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,240 strong boys to work the land. 539 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,600 What happened in India is perhaps less well known. 540 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,760 It was 1975 to 1977. 541 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,000 During that time the nation declared an emergency, 542 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,800 and as part of the emergency 543 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,160 there were forced sterilisation. 544 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,080 When we say forced, were people literally forced? 545 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,200 It was really forced as part of the population control. 546 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,400 It primarily focused on vasectomies to begin with. 547 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,040 I think that it was actually male sterilisation. 548 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,560 So at some point, I think, you know, if, for instance, 549 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,200 if you, if you travel in a train without a ticket, 550 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,880 then probably you could end up having a vasectomy. 551 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,040 And they achieved close to a million sterilisation 552 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,280 within a short period of time. 553 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,560 Biologically, did it work? 554 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,000 Did it suppress the growth of the population? It did, it did. 555 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,200 Unsurprisingly, the policy was so unpopular that it contributed 556 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,960 to the collapse of Indira Gandhi's government. 557 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,960 But since then, new health care programmes have emerged. 558 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,440 India's population is growing. 559 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,360 What can they do now? 560 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,720 What's the next technique that they can employ 561 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:13,760 to regulate that population? 562 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,600 The best way is to really delay marriage and child-bearing and also 563 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,880 promote more spacing methods, more birth control methods, 564 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,720 which are temporary methods, more effective methods, 565 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:27,960 modern methods, so that couples can actually effectively space 566 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,200 between their births, have adequate interval between their births. 567 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,000 So probably within a year or two, India will obtain 568 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,360 a replacement fertility. 569 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,320 That's a remarkable achievement. Indeed, yes. 570 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,000 All over the world, there are examples of good 571 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,040 state sponsored family planning. 572 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,920 Thailand, South Korea and Iran have all been praised in the past 573 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,160 for successfully bringing down their birth rates. 574 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,240 What is happening right now is the first-ever slow-down 575 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:02,080 of human population in the history of our species, 576 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,520 not due to a disaster, not due to war, 577 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,200 famine, pestilence, disease. 578 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,440 Contraception helped massively because, given a choice, 579 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:16,480 women would rather have fewer children to look after. 580 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,400 A vast majority of women do not want a large family. 581 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,960 In Lagos, the government is trying to reduce the birth rate, 582 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:37,520 but the use of contraception across Nigeria is still comparatively low. 583 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,280 Betty, good morning. 584 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,320 Morning. Thanks for the invitation to come along. Thank you so much. 585 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,040 Betty runs a school for young girls. 586 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,640 I saw one of the young girls here today, she was carrying a child. 587 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:54,880 Yes. Is that likely to be hers? 588 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,520 Yes, it's her baby. 589 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,360 So teenage pregnancy is a big issue. 590 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,200 So it's one of the things we to try to tackle by ensuring 591 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,560 that we give information to the girls, and also to ensure 592 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:10,040 that they get into school because with school they are able 593 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,760 to be more enlightened, to take informed decisions 594 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,000 about their lives. 595 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:16,600 And the girls that you've had going through your schools, 596 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:18,040 is that working? 597 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,120 Are they marrying later, having less children, 598 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,200 not being pregnant in their teenage years? Yes. 599 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,080 They are better educated, they delay marriage, 600 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,320 they delay childbirth and they live better quality of lives. 601 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,200 They make better informed decisions about their bodies, 602 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,920 they have fewer children, 603 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,280 and so education helps in reducing population. 604 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,960 Education helps in ensuring that people live more fulfilled lives. 605 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,880 We have two over four 606 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:50,040 plus three over six. 607 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,160 Who can do this one for me? 608 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,240 If people feel secure, 609 00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:58,800 if people think that they've got a future ahead of them, 610 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,720 they think it's worth going to school and staying in school, 611 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:03,720 and worth trying to get into university. 612 00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:07,560 And when that's happened elsewhere in the world, the number of babies 613 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,280 has come down faster than we ever believed possible. 614 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,720 Universities are by far the most effective way to slow people down 615 00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:15,400 having children. 616 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,560 It's, it's quite dramatic. 617 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,640 Let's clap her. APPLAUSE 618 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,080 Well, I think we are going to win over the entire community 619 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,920 because they can see the light, and they can see that a difference 620 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,440 between girls who are educated and girls who are not educated 621 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,320 are like day and night. 622 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,360 CHILDREN SING 623 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,000 Across Lagos, the city is being transformed. 624 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,680 Some sort of urban utopian ideal. 625 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:04,280 The only problem is, that as living standards rise and the economy 626 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,720 grows, there are some inevitable downsides. 627 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,640 Goodness me. 628 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:21,920 Look at that over there. 629 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,200 This is a hillock of rubbish, that is a mountain of rubbish. 630 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,240 This is a molehill. 631 00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:34,560 Someone over there has made mountains out of them. 632 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:40,000 Well, the thing is that everyone produces rubbish, 633 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,440 there are sites like this all over the UK. 634 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,600 But it's just indicative of the level of consumption. 635 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,880 This is like an indicator of just how much we use 636 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,160 because this is how much we waste. 637 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,560 All the plastic here, look at this. 638 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,640 Look, look. Look. 639 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,680 This is being recycled. 640 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,040 These poor guys are out here in the baking heat of the sun 641 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,320 sifting through all of this to pull out the plastic bottles and bag 642 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,560 them up so they can be recycled. 643 00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:21,040 But think of the resources that have gone into making all of this. 644 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:27,960 This is a global issue. 645 00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,560 This is not Nigeria, this is Earth. 646 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:34,840 This is an indication of what's going on on our planet. 647 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,120 Vast consumption. 648 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:51,360 Now let's be clear, Nigeria, like countries all over the world, 649 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,560 is entirely within its rights to grow, just as we have done. 650 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,840 Despite having a population nearly three times that of the UK, 651 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,120 the average Nigerian currently consumes just a quarter 652 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,800 of the Earth's resources that we do. 653 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:14,280 The problem isn't large families of poor African children. 654 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,520 The problem is a way of living that we've helped create. 655 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:33,000 I like to think of myself as someone who, you know, doesn't need much 656 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,840 stuff, doesn't use much stuff, is aware of that, you know, 657 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,680 we've got too much stuff. 658 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,200 But in truth, I've still got too much stuff. 659 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,720 I've got a microwave, I've got a kettle, I've got two televisions, 660 00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:52,880 I've got a SodaStream, and my most notorious excess when it comes 661 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,960 to stuff, are vacuum cleaning devices, 662 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,360 because I've got ten of them. 663 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,800 VACUUM HUMS 664 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,920 Hoovers are to satisfy my cleaning fetish. 665 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,200 But that's not an excuse, is it, in any way, shape or form? 666 00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:15,960 They're cheap, aren't they? 667 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,280 Well, they're cheap in terms of some of these things, in terms of pounds, 668 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,640 but environmentally, they're inordinately expensive. 669 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,160 It's like my mobile phone. 670 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,200 The environmental cost of producing a phone is incalculable. 671 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,480 They're full of rare metals that are being dug out of the ground. 672 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,520 And we never repair things, we just replace them. 673 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:37,440 The thing is, that previously poor countries, 674 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,440 China, India, Nigeria, 675 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,280 those people will be improving the qualities of their life 676 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,720 and they will want, you know, Hoovers, too. 677 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,760 They've got every right to them just as much as I have. 678 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,520 We are a massive part of this problem. 679 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,480 If every one in the world consumed like the average person in the UK, 680 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,520 it's thought that we'd need the resources of nearly 681 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,240 two more Earths to live sustainably. 682 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,280 If everyone consumed like the average American, 683 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,080 we'd need nearly four more Earths. 684 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,320 This is the number of cars in the world 685 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,560 starting in 1900. 686 00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,000 And it just goes like this. 687 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,720 And we're pumping out fossil fuels to keep up that consumption. 688 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,320 Carbon emissions. 689 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,000 This is 1750. 690 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,160 It just goes like this, basically, exponential, 691 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,360 to this point, and that's now. 692 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,760 When it comes to carbon based fuels, 693 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,400 I just have no faith at all that there's any real desire 694 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,160 to phase them out, because they're worth so much money. 695 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,520 And, in today's world, do you know anyone who's going to say, 696 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,400 "Do you know what, let's just leave all that money in the ground, 697 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,200 "let's leave all of that oil and gas in the ground, 698 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,440 "we're just going to stop."? No. 699 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,600 I have no faith in that at all. 700 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,040 Let's look at the global temperature 701 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,000 starting in 1880. 702 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:11,000 And what we see, of course, is that annually 703 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,240 the temperature fluctuates. 704 00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:17,840 But the general trend is this curve upwards here. 705 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,600 We've got a planet which is boiling or burning 706 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:26,680 and it's this cycle of climate consumption 707 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:31,920 and human population growth which is spiralling out of control. 708 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,680 If you look at much of Sub-Saharan Africa, much of Asia, 709 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:45,560 the levels of consumption there are, so far, more or less sustainable 710 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,000 in terms of using planetary resources. 711 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:53,000 The trouble is moving to income levels and consumption levels 712 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,120 of the kind we see in this country, and we see in the US 713 00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,880 and increasingly in China, that is a problem. 714 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,520 I'm worried that a world of ten billion 715 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:15,920 consuming as we do now is simply too much for the Earth to sustain, 716 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,080 leaving a planet on the brink of collapse for the next generation. 717 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:24,320 See the way the deer have stripped all the ivy off of here? 718 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,200 Yeah, they have. They love it. 719 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,680 They love it when a tree falls down so they can nibble all the ivy off. 720 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,040 I've never had a child of my own, 721 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,640 but I do have a stepdaughter, Megan. 722 00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,880 What sort of tree's that? Oh, here we go. Come on. 723 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,840 OK, what tree's that? Oh, come on, I'm not... Which tree's that? 724 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,840 It's the oldest organism that we have living in the UK. 725 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,480 What about that one? 726 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:50,120 You never wanted children, did you? No. 727 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,480 Was that environmental or personal? 728 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,640 I think it started off personal and then it became, you know, 729 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,480 a complex of many things and environment was one of them. 730 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,760 I mean, the greatest thing would have been a fear 731 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,960 for a child's future. 732 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,320 I had to think myself, do I want to use an enormous amount 733 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:12,040 of my time, effort and energy investing in another human being? 734 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,800 Did I make the right decision, that's the thing? 735 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,000 Since she was a baby, I've dragged Megan all around the world. 736 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,120 One of the motivations to show you tigers and show you sperm whales, 737 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,760 is I fear that at some stage in your future, 738 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,880 they won't be there for you to see. 739 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:38,720 Now imagine you had a child and then there were even fewer tigers, 740 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:41,120 there's even less elephants. 741 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,720 And you'll be in an even more desperate rush 742 00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:47,200 to rush around the world and show them things so that they can 743 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,520 have those opportunities, you know. 744 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,520 I fear for my stepdaughter's world, 745 00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:55,520 and if she has children, I'm terrified of theirs. 746 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,120 What about you? What about your biological urge? 747 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,240 Have you not got a biological urge? I'm only 23. 748 00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:04,360 I'm not sure that's hit in yet. Well, hold on, 749 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,400 young women have children... True. ..in their early teens. 750 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,560 But it intensifies, doesn't it, your biological urge, as you get older. 751 00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,400 Does it? Yes. 752 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,360 Apparently, so I'm told anyway. 753 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,360 Hasn't hit me yet, but... 754 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,520 OK, what tree's that? Oh, come on. 755 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,320 Not this again. 756 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,880 I've just been into a room where there are canisters 757 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,920 containing potentially 5,000 babies. 758 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:46,480 There's one element of this journey that is entirely alien to me 759 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,960 and that I want to know more about. 760 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,080 The technology here is, it's remarkable, 761 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:54,720 to be quite honest with you. 762 00:48:54,720 --> 00:48:57,760 I've stood and looked at a screen and watched an egg dividing. 763 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,560 That's the point where it becomes new life. 764 00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,920 Emily and Martino have been undergoing IVF treatment 765 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,720 for some time. 766 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,160 Just to summarise, you've been coming to the clinic now 767 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,240 since about 2012, trying to have a baby and a family, 768 00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:18,840 and then you've had six cycles here. 769 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,320 So I think we're getting to the point now 770 00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,920 where we have to decide, you know, what your options are, 771 00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,280 which includes stopping treatment. 772 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:31,320 So far, they've spent £50,000 trying to get pregnant. 773 00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,480 I want to give birth to ideally our child. 774 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:39,160 But I understand that might not be possible now, 775 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,520 but it's the first time I've even been open to discussing this. 776 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:44,840 Well, how do you feel, then? 777 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,000 I get a sense that you're preparing yourself to change your plans 778 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,320 and be less rigid about your own... Yeah. ..you know, genetical input, 779 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:53,960 basically. Yeah. 780 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,960 I think my wife wants to go through the pregnancy. 781 00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,720 Yeah, that's always been foremost to me. 782 00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:05,240 It's the one thing that I don't think I can, I can, 783 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:08,200 I don't think I can compromise on. 784 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:12,400 I just want desperately to achieve that 785 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,760 and to feel what it's like to be pregnant and give birth, 786 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,920 because that's what we're designed to do. 787 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,800 What is this deep rooted determination and passion 788 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,000 to have a child of your own? 789 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,000 It's just such a strong desire. 790 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,640 It's, you know, and it never leaves me. 791 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,560 It's always, it's just always there. 792 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,880 And as I get older, I've definitely felt it more. 793 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:41,520 What about the future? 794 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,160 Because you must think about what's the world going to be like in 15, 795 00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:48,400 20, 25 years' time when your child will be coming to maturity. 796 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,560 But one thing's for sure, it scares me. Yeah, it does. 797 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:53,520 But fear can't hold you back, can it, you know? 798 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,400 It's harder to understand you 799 00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:01,000 than you understanding me because I am thinking, 800 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,680 "He could have children, why doesn't he?" 801 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,840 I'm just wondering in my head, why? 802 00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,160 It's like, you can have it, you know. 803 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:14,680 I believe in God, fate will get us there. 804 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,160 It's going to go against the grain of the programme, 805 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,040 but having met you and have developed some understanding 806 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,200 of what you've been through and what you're going through, 807 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,760 I really wish you the best of success with your next cycle, 808 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,360 to be honest with you. Thank you. 809 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,960 The desire to procreate is fundamental. 810 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,400 It's clearly never going to leave us. 811 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,400 If our population is to hit ten billion, 812 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:43,920 we need to look for new solutions. 813 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,680 We are like nothing else that's ever lived on this planet 814 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,680 that we know of. 815 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,600 We are highly intelligent, remarkably adaptable, 816 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:57,280 incredibly inventive, and we're really good when it comes to 817 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,160 dealing with catastrophe. 818 00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,520 And when ever we've been faced with problems in the past, 819 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,320 we've come up with solutions. 820 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,720 For many, the answer to our problems lies in new technology. 821 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,080 Hidden 100 feet below the streets of London in an abandoned 822 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,320 World War II bomb shelter, something extraordinary is happening. 823 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,760 They're growing salad. 824 00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:38,320 This is pretty futuristic when it comes to growing food, isn't it? 825 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,200 I mean, the whole lot is underground. 826 00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:45,560 The garlic chives, the watercress, 827 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:50,760 the sunflower, the coriander all look remarkably healthy. 828 00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:53,960 The whole place oozes fertility. 829 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:58,400 But it's a somewhat bizarre place 830 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,600 to think that food might be grown, isn't it? 831 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,680 Goodness, it goes on and on. 832 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,840 A traditional farm might yield several crops a year. 833 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,840 By precisely controlling the environment 834 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,840 this farm can produce 60 harvests a year 835 00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,880 stacked across four levels. 836 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,040 It's good, actually. It is good. 837 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,920 It's sort of perfect. 838 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,160 That's good, good to hear. That's what we aim for. 839 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,240 Yeah, except that when I'm eating my salad, I always like to see 840 00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:40,240 those leaves with a little bit missing 841 00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:42,320 where a caterpillar's had a nibble. 842 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,560 There's not going to be any of that down here, is there? Not down here. 843 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,440 Food production here is only on a micro scale. 844 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,840 So do we need to think about bigger solutions 845 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:55,040 to feed the world's growing population? 846 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,160 How much more of the world's land surface, 847 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,360 if we ignore the damage it does to biodiversity, could be productive 848 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,600 for growing human food? 849 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,200 Erm, quite a bit more. 850 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:08,480 I think that's, that's the problem. 851 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,480 It's, in a way, the same problem that we have with oil. 852 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:17,920 We have enough oil to cause yet more catastrophic damage, 853 00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,320 so it's not a finite limits issue to quite the same extent. 854 00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,760 It's about the damage that we cause by continuing to use it. 855 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,600 We've got a population of a little over seven billion people now. 856 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,040 What's going to happen when we get to ten billion? 857 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,880 Can we bioengineer our way out of this problem 858 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:37,120 just using the space and the soils that we've got at the moment? 859 00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,400 SHE SIGHS HEAVILY 860 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,040 That's one of the biggest sighs... There's no... 861 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:46,040 That's one of the biggest sighs that we've had making this programme. 862 00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,880 I think, I think we have the knowledge to change 863 00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,720 the way we produce. 864 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:57,840 It's the, will we do it and can we do it, 865 00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,880 and that sense of urgency and that sense of... 866 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:02,720 Well, what do you think? 867 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:05,480 Erm... 868 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:09,920 I don't know. 869 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,920 I think across the 21st century we have to, in our high income 870 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,280 countries, face the fact that it is probably not only immoral, 871 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,480 but it is unsustainable to think that the low income countries, 872 00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,120 particularly the African countries, are going to maintain 873 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,200 their low levels of consumption. 874 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,240 And given the low level of consumption 875 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:36,760 that they have at the moment, and how much they are going 876 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,960 to have to raise it just to get to a sort of minimum 877 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,760 acceptable standard, then those of us in high income countries have got 878 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:46,400 to reduce our consumption. 879 00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,880 Our fundamental economic principles are based upon capitalism, 880 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,320 which is all about economic growth, which is all about consumption, 881 00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,360 consuming more and more. 882 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:03,080 I agree this is huge, but I would say as huge as avoiding nuclear war, 883 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,280 because if you don't think it's possible, you give up, 884 00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,360 and a lot of people do give up. 885 00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,040 But it is entirely possible for us to have a future 886 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,880 that we can be quite proud of, that we played a part in. 887 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:21,560 The power for relatively fast change in a short amount of time is there. 888 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,880 In the grand scheme of things, are you hopeful that we as a species 889 00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,440 are going to be able to continue to live on this planet? 890 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,560 Well, you know, if you asked me five years ago, I would be optimistic. 891 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:40,000 Now, I'm less because of, because of the politics, 892 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,720 the way it's going. 893 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:44,920 I think climate change is a reality. 894 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,840 So, on balance, I'm less optimistic than optimistic 895 00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:53,560 and certainly less optimistic than I used to be. 896 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:59,320 Things are probably going to get very uncomfortable and pretty ugly 897 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:00,960 before we fix it, aren't they? 898 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,320 I think we were building some very good systems at the end 899 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:06,040 of the 20th century, and I think there was a lot of very good 900 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,440 international cooperation, and there was a real buzz 901 00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:10,320 as we came into the 21st century. 902 00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:13,760 But hopefully, the younger generations coming up, 903 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,720 they will be able to grasp what we put in place 904 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,840 and take it forward. 905 00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:26,760 I do think that the planet can actually hold ten billion people 906 00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,480 provided that the people behave properly. 907 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:34,640 The planet has got enough to satisfy a man's needs, 908 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:39,040 but not man's greed, as Mahatma Gandhi used to really say this. 909 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:45,760 I'm not saying to you, don't have children. 910 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:47,720 That's not the answer, clearly. 911 00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:52,160 I'm saying to you, recognise that this is the biggest problem 912 00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,400 that our species has ever had and you're part of that. 913 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,440 You're one of our species, and your children 914 00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:01,680 and your grandchildren are part of that species, 915 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,760 and the problems that they're going to have 916 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,640 are going to be far greater than yours. 917 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,200 So if you do care about them, it's you who has to act now. 918 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,440 You might be watching this programme and thinking, 919 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:14,920 "Oh, we're all doomed." 920 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,360 That's not right, we're not doomed at all. 921 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:22,400 But we've got to look after this place. 922 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:28,080 There is no Planet B and this one is beautiful.