1
00:00:04,100 --> 00:00:08,200
My friends, my family,
think I'm obsessed with this.

2
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:09,800
I mean, they're right. I am.

3
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,800
Look at this.

4
00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,200
So this - this is, what we're walking
through, is the food environment.

5
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400
We could be anywhere in the UK.

6
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,180
It's all industrially processed food.

7
00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:24,540
It's extremely convenient...

8
00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,000
..it's very cheap...

9
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,600
..and it's so appealing.

10
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,900
And yet we know that
this food environment

11
00:00:32,900 --> 00:00:34,980
is driving a catastrophe.

12
00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,700
The evidence is increasingly clear
that pre-prepared, packaged,

13
00:00:40,700 --> 00:00:45,540
highly processed food is linked to
weight gain, obesity, some cancers,

14
00:00:45,540 --> 00:00:47,700
dementia, type 2 diabetes,

15
00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:49,980
and early death from all causes.

16
00:00:52,780 --> 00:00:56,340
We're in the middle of a food crisis,
but we can't stop eating.

17
00:00:56,340 --> 00:01:00,340
And if you want to understand why,
you have to go and speak

18
00:01:00,340 --> 00:01:03,900
to people who have worked inside
the food industry.

19
00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,420
We've worked with Heinz,
Cadbury's, Pringles.

20
00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:08,300
Bird's Custard.
Campbell's Soup.

21
00:01:08,300 --> 00:01:09,860
Unilever.
PepsiCo.

22
00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:11,740
Kellogg.
Dr Pepper.

23
00:01:11,740 --> 00:01:15,300
These foods are engineered
to be addictive.

24
00:01:16,820 --> 00:01:19,180
How have we sleepwalked
into this situation?

25
00:01:22,820 --> 00:01:26,380
What is the food we eat today
doing to our minds?

26
00:01:26,380 --> 00:01:29,740
And how has it become
so irresistible?

27
00:01:35,540 --> 00:01:38,540
Britain will be left a sick
and impoverished nation,

28
00:01:38,540 --> 00:01:40,820
according to former
government food tsar,

29
00:01:40,820 --> 00:01:43,420
if we don't do something
about our junk food habit.

30
00:01:46,780 --> 00:01:48,420
My name is Chris van Tulleken.

31
00:01:48,420 --> 00:01:51,020
I'm an NHS doctor, I'm a scientist,

32
00:01:51,020 --> 00:01:54,540
and I'm part of a growing group
of doctors and academics

33
00:01:54,540 --> 00:01:57,300
who are increasingly worried
about the effect that

34
00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:00,500
the global food system
is having on all of us.

35
00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:03,300
When it comes to obesity, the way
that we've understood the problem

36
00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:05,500
is it's a failure of willpower.

37
00:02:05,500 --> 00:02:07,980
People are just making bad choices.

38
00:02:07,980 --> 00:02:09,660
They're somewhat lazy.

39
00:02:09,660 --> 00:02:11,580
It's basically their fault.

40
00:02:11,580 --> 00:02:15,220
This is American government data for
men and women of all different ages -

41
00:02:15,220 --> 00:02:17,820
the different lines are
different ages - for obesity.

42
00:02:17,820 --> 00:02:21,380
What you see is between
1960 and 1975,

43
00:02:21,380 --> 00:02:24,780
there's a fairly steady percentage
of obesity in the population.

44
00:02:25,860 --> 00:02:29,100
But in the mid-1970s,
obesity starts going up

45
00:02:29,100 --> 00:02:31,540
in all of the groups simultaneously.

46
00:02:33,900 --> 00:02:36,540
Now, if you're saying
willpower is responsible,

47
00:02:36,540 --> 00:02:40,780
what you're proposing is that all of
these groups of people simultaneously

48
00:02:40,780 --> 00:02:43,500
lost moral responsibility,
and that's not plausible.

49
00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:48,100
Something else happened
to our food in the mid-1970s

50
00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:50,220
to make it irresistible to people.

51
00:02:55,580 --> 00:02:57,180
Good afternoon. How are you?

52
00:03:05,180 --> 00:03:07,260
My name is Howard Moskowitz.

53
00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:09,820
I'm an experimental psychologist.

54
00:03:10,980 --> 00:03:16,060
And in the 1970s,
people think that I revolutionised

55
00:03:16,060 --> 00:03:17,580
the food industry.

56
00:03:21,220 --> 00:03:26,020
I'd like to talk to you about
the way the science came about.

57
00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:29,100
You know, you read all the time
in the newspapers -

58
00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:33,340
it's a sinister plot,
generally by one or two scientists

59
00:03:33,340 --> 00:03:37,180
in a laboratory,
like Ming the Magnificent, saying,

60
00:03:37,180 --> 00:03:39,860
"How should we make the people
of the world fat?"

61
00:03:39,860 --> 00:03:42,100
Well, let me tell you
my own history.

62
00:03:44,220 --> 00:03:48,180
I was called by the vice chairman
of Campbell's Soup,

63
00:03:48,180 --> 00:03:49,780
and they said to me,

64
00:03:49,780 --> 00:03:54,420
"We're competing against a company
which manufactures ragu."

65
00:03:54,420 --> 00:03:59,100
They used to make it out of
Contadina tomato paste and water,

66
00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:01,860
like my mother did in the '50s.

67
00:04:01,860 --> 00:04:05,940
I said, "I think you can make
a better pasta sauce."

68
00:04:05,940 --> 00:04:08,900
And they said, "How?"

69
00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:13,260
And I said, "Let's figure out
the actual food ingredients

70
00:04:13,260 --> 00:04:17,500
"that you can blend, and let's
make different combinations,

71
00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:19,060
"and we'll test them."

72
00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:25,380
And we ended up creating 45 dishes,

73
00:04:25,380 --> 00:04:30,940
and we got people to taste them
and rate how much they liked them.

74
00:04:30,940 --> 00:04:35,620
I realised very simply
that if you systematically

75
00:04:35,620 --> 00:04:39,140
varied the ingredients
and you tested them,

76
00:04:39,140 --> 00:04:43,340
nature would reveal itself
in stunning clarity.

77
00:04:43,340 --> 00:04:47,820
So this is the origin of the bliss
point with which I am identified.

78
00:04:50,140 --> 00:04:53,100
The easiest way to demonstrate
a bliss point

79
00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:54,980
is add sugar to coffee.

80
00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:58,700
As you add more and more sugar,

81
00:04:58,700 --> 00:05:01,180
you like it more and more
up to a certain point,

82
00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:03,380
and then you like it less and less.

83
00:05:03,380 --> 00:05:06,020
The highest level is
where you like it most.

84
00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:07,620
That's the bliss point...

85
00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,620
..where you have the bliss.

86
00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:17,580
And that became the basis

87
00:05:17,580 --> 00:05:20,980
of a multi-billion dollar
30-year run.

88
00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:29,420
I found that I could consult
with companies like Unilever,

89
00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:31,900
Pepsi Cola, Tropicana,

90
00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,100
Dr Pepper, and Spam.

91
00:05:39,740 --> 00:05:42,060
Sales almost always go up

92
00:05:42,060 --> 00:05:44,540
because you're making
a delicious product

93
00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:46,620
and you know that people love it.

94
00:05:46,620 --> 00:05:47,900
Very simple.

95
00:05:49,620 --> 00:05:53,140
But over the years,

96
00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:56,500
products became more complicated
and more artificial.

97
00:06:04,820 --> 00:06:07,620
The road to hell
is paved with good intentions.

98
00:06:16,820 --> 00:06:19,740
From the 1970s,
food companies started to realise

99
00:06:19,740 --> 00:06:23,500
that if they used proper scientific
development processes,

100
00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:26,180
they could sell us a lot more food.

101
00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:39,020
My name is John Ruff, and I've spent
40 years in the food industry

102
00:06:39,020 --> 00:06:41,500
across seven different countries.

103
00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,940
Companies spend a lot of time
optimising all aspects

104
00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:48,300
of their product - the flavour,
the taste, the texture.

105
00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:49,980
People want their product
to be as good,

106
00:06:49,980 --> 00:06:53,020
if not better, than the competitor,
so it will sell more.

107
00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:58,660
In research and development, we used
to use a phrase called the funnel.

108
00:06:58,660 --> 00:07:01,380
And the funnel was the
product development funnel.

109
00:07:01,380 --> 00:07:05,980
You need 100 products to be in
what's called advanced development.

110
00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:08,220
You need 1,000 in early development.

111
00:07:08,220 --> 00:07:09,620
You need 10,000 ideas.

112
00:07:09,620 --> 00:07:12,140
Often those ideas don't
get off the drawing board,

113
00:07:12,140 --> 00:07:13,620
don't get off the paper,

114
00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:16,180
or they'll make some early
prototypes or mock-ups.

115
00:07:16,180 --> 00:07:20,340
OK, seats numbers 1 to 14, you'll
be now testing the Midget Gems.

116
00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:23,780
We use trained sensory panels
to give us ratings.

117
00:07:23,780 --> 00:07:25,460
Is it squishy? Is it hard?

118
00:07:25,460 --> 00:07:27,460
Is it soft? Is it crunchy?

119
00:07:27,460 --> 00:07:31,060
That's very much how
the food industry operates.

120
00:07:31,060 --> 00:07:34,420
The food company really almost
has to sort of provide products

121
00:07:34,420 --> 00:07:37,140
that consumers want, otherwise
they will go out of business.

122
00:07:40,420 --> 00:07:42,340
I've spoken to lots of people
who work at food companies,

123
00:07:42,340 --> 00:07:44,220
and they've told me
about these tasting panels.

124
00:07:44,220 --> 00:07:47,220
Two of the most important things
that are measured

125
00:07:47,220 --> 00:07:49,220
are how quickly do people eat,

126
00:07:49,220 --> 00:07:51,260
and how much of the food
do people eat?

127
00:07:51,260 --> 00:07:53,380
Because that's what drives sales.

128
00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:57,380
But these tasting panels
have a subjective element,

129
00:07:57,380 --> 00:08:00,620
so some companies started
taking it much further.

130
00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:20,060
One of my remits
when I first joined the company

131
00:08:20,060 --> 00:08:22,620
was the way that
they would get information,

132
00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:24,900
and that would be always
word of mouth.

133
00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:27,460
It would be focus groups,
it would be questionnaires,

134
00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:29,580
and I just railed
against that stuff.

135
00:08:31,100 --> 00:08:33,260
I'm a neuroscientist.

136
00:08:33,260 --> 00:08:37,020
I introduced brain scanning
to Unilever.

137
00:08:40,380 --> 00:08:42,380
I'm not interested in
talking to a consumer.

138
00:08:42,380 --> 00:08:45,460
I want to find out what they like
by digging deeper,

139
00:08:45,460 --> 00:08:49,220
because we're not really aware
of why we like what we like.

140
00:08:49,220 --> 00:08:52,860
And one way to get that is with
the neuroimaging capabilities.

141
00:08:54,100 --> 00:08:57,100
What we would do is basically
lie someone in a brain scanner

142
00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,260
and feed food into their mouth.

143
00:08:59,260 --> 00:09:02,980
And we looked at the activity
that was coming into that brain.

144
00:09:05,660 --> 00:09:08,220
And one study that we did
was feeding people

145
00:09:08,220 --> 00:09:11,740
in one of these brain scanners
different types of ice cream.

146
00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:15,060
And what we found is that
this area right at the front

147
00:09:15,060 --> 00:09:17,940
of the brain here - it's called
the orbitofrontal cortex,

148
00:09:17,940 --> 00:09:20,340
and it's a reward system area,

149
00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:22,500
and it was glowing like a furnace.

150
00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:26,460
You're looking at what the brain
is telling you.

151
00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:28,460
You can't fudge it.

152
00:09:28,460 --> 00:09:33,060
And it's grown and grown and grown
as a way to predict

153
00:09:33,060 --> 00:09:36,380
what product is going to be
successful and what isn't.

154
00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:46,340
And the ice cream business
used that brain imaging data

155
00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:49,540
to basically make the claim that
ice cream makes you happy.

156
00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:53,860
And this is the article
that was in the newspapers.

157
00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:59,340
Slightly unfortunate that
it's got an obesity thing.

158
00:10:00,820 --> 00:10:02,700
Yes.
HE LAUGHS

159
00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:04,420
This is contrast, isn't it?

160
00:10:04,420 --> 00:10:05,420
Yeah.

161
00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:07,180
You can edit that out, can't you?

162
00:10:11,620 --> 00:10:13,300
The brain scans predicted

163
00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:17,020
which foods people would like
or which ones they'd love,

164
00:10:17,020 --> 00:10:20,620
but they also helped to show
something about those foods

165
00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:22,820
that would be really crucial
for the food industry.

166
00:10:22,820 --> 00:10:26,940
If you want to sell a lot of food,
texture is massively important.

167
00:10:29,980 --> 00:10:33,900
One thing many people don't realise
is that factory processing

168
00:10:33,900 --> 00:10:37,140
changes the textural properties
of that food.

169
00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:40,300
Now, that makes the food
much softer.

170
00:10:40,300 --> 00:10:42,460
And an interesting fact
about soft food

171
00:10:42,460 --> 00:10:44,380
is you're not chewing it as much.

172
00:10:44,380 --> 00:10:48,220
That actually short-circuits
the normal satiety mechanisms

173
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:51,580
that you would have if you were
actually chewing food properly.

174
00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:55,180
So a food which you have to actually
put some work into chewing -

175
00:10:55,180 --> 00:10:58,220
so a crunchy carrot - is having
that benefit in terms of the fact

176
00:10:58,220 --> 00:11:00,260
you're spending a lot more time
chewing it.

177
00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:02,420
With a soft food, you don't do that.

178
00:11:02,420 --> 00:11:04,860
So you're bypassing
a normal mechanism

179
00:11:04,860 --> 00:11:06,500
that tells you that you're full.

180
00:11:08,300 --> 00:11:11,740
Once you've worked out that playing
around with the texture of a food,

181
00:11:11,740 --> 00:11:16,420
making it softer, tricks that normal
satiety or fullness mechanism,

182
00:11:16,420 --> 00:11:18,500
clearly there's an opportunity there

183
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:20,620
for some kind of
scurrilous behaviour

184
00:11:20,620 --> 00:11:23,860
in making food softer
so that people will eat more,

185
00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:26,980
and therefore you sell
more of your product.

186
00:11:26,980 --> 00:11:31,340
So there is an opportunity there,
of course, you know, to basically...

187
00:11:31,340 --> 00:11:33,500
..not do the right thing,
shall I say?

188
00:11:38,220 --> 00:11:43,140
So much of the packaged food
that we eat is incredibly soft.

189
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:49,660
My kids love these.

190
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,420
You don't typically think
of this as being a soft food,

191
00:11:55,420 --> 00:11:57,460
because it's a bit crunchy,

192
00:11:57,460 --> 00:11:58,980
but actually,
after that initial crunch,

193
00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:00,980
you can just crush it
with your tongue, right?

194
00:12:00,980 --> 00:12:02,260
It's got no resistance at all.

195
00:12:02,260 --> 00:12:04,980
But in terms of the
calories per gram,

196
00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:08,580
it's got way more calories
than even a very fatty burger.

197
00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:11,180
So the softness and
the energy density

198
00:12:11,180 --> 00:12:13,700
mean that you consume it
incredibly quickly.

199
00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,660
And there's a food industry term
for these

200
00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:19,740
very light, puffy foods
that melt in the mouth.

201
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:22,780
It's called
vanishing caloric density.

202
00:12:26,220 --> 00:12:27,220
Gone.

203
00:12:30,220 --> 00:12:34,540
The thing that makes us eat a lot
isn't just what we do to the food.

204
00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:39,580
It's also about logos, marketing,

205
00:12:39,580 --> 00:12:43,100
branding, the box the food comes in.

206
00:12:48,020 --> 00:12:51,620
Here we've got a very crinkly
packet of crisps.

207
00:12:51,620 --> 00:12:54,100
The noise is quite loud.

208
00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:55,460
Extraordinary.

209
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:58,300
Of course that's going to make
you think, "Fresh, fresh, fresh."

210
00:12:59,660 --> 00:13:01,740
I'm Professor Barry Smith.

211
00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:06,500
I work on sensory science with
neuroscientists and psychologists.

212
00:13:07,780 --> 00:13:10,100
Pringles are often irresistible.

213
00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:11,420
It's in their slogan.

214
00:13:11,420 --> 00:13:13,140
# Potato crisps in a tube

215
00:13:13,140 --> 00:13:14,980
# Pop it up and get in the mood

216
00:13:14,980 --> 00:13:16,500
# Once you pop

217
00:13:16,500 --> 00:13:18,420
# You can't stop. #

218
00:13:18,420 --> 00:13:20,140
When I worked for Pringles,

219
00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:23,700
they were really worried
about the competition from Doritos,

220
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,620
and they were trying to think
of ways to innovate.

221
00:13:26,620 --> 00:13:29,700
And one idea was,
"Let's make the tube bigger

222
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,220
"so that we can get
our whole hand in there."

223
00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:34,820
And I said, "No, no, no, no,
don't do that."

224
00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:37,460
People like struggling
to get their hand in.

225
00:13:37,460 --> 00:13:39,180
They're like foraging bears.

226
00:13:39,180 --> 00:13:41,660
They're trying to extract the food

227
00:13:41,660 --> 00:13:44,540
and that searching out
something to eat,

228
00:13:44,540 --> 00:13:46,460
that's increasing your desire.

229
00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:50,100
CRUNCHING

230
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,460
Eating is a multi-sensory
experience.

231
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:57,180
There's the look of the food.

232
00:13:57,180 --> 00:13:58,940
There's the smell of the food.

233
00:13:58,940 --> 00:14:02,540
There's the feeling of the food
on your fingers.

234
00:14:02,540 --> 00:14:05,100
Even the sound of food matters.

235
00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:13,540
When you open a fizzy soda,
you've got two noises.

236
00:14:13,540 --> 00:14:16,740
You've got the click and the tear.

237
00:14:16,740 --> 00:14:19,300
Sound engineers and manufacturers

238
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:22,540
work really hard to get
that sound just right.

239
00:14:22,540 --> 00:14:24,460
And that's sonic branding.

240
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:33,940
Many companies have asked me
to work on sonic branding for them,

241
00:14:33,940 --> 00:14:36,940
and I think I can mention
when I was working with Kellogg,

242
00:14:36,940 --> 00:14:39,460
they said,
"Ooh, what's sonic branding?"

243
00:14:39,460 --> 00:14:43,180
And I said, "You invented this!"

244
00:14:43,180 --> 00:14:45,980
Most people will remember,
as children,

245
00:14:45,980 --> 00:14:49,660
the experience of lifting a bowl
to their ear.

246
00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:51,700
And what are they listening for?

247
00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:54,260
Snap, Crackle, and Pop.

248
00:14:54,260 --> 00:14:56,420
That's sonic branding at its best,

249
00:14:56,420 --> 00:14:58,980
and that's the original.

250
00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:03,380
# It's fun to put Snap, Crackle,
Pop into your morning. #

251
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:15,460
Look at all this.

252
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:19,580
The food companies are using
branding to grab our attention.

253
00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:22,460
It's salt, fat, sugar
wrapped up in appealing packages.

254
00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:23,740
We've got cartoon characters.

255
00:15:23,740 --> 00:15:25,460
There are tigers. There are monkeys.

256
00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:28,100
There are bright colours everywhere.

257
00:15:29,980 --> 00:15:34,100
But to sell even more food,
industry had to change

258
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:37,940
the culture of how we eat,
the number of times a day we eat,

259
00:15:37,940 --> 00:15:40,260
and this is called snackification.

260
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:56,900
I am currently a research associate
at the University of Cambridge.

261
00:15:56,900 --> 00:16:01,740
I trained as a food engineer
in Mexico and I worked for Cargill.

262
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,860
It's a company that makes
most of the raw ingredients

263
00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:11,100
that go into processed foods.

264
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:14,140
Name it - flour, sugar, oil,

265
00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:17,100
high-fructose corn syrup, cocoa.

266
00:16:20,620 --> 00:16:24,820
In the last several years,
I started to see an influx

267
00:16:24,820 --> 00:16:28,140
of packaged products from the USA
into Mexico.

268
00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:31,340
I started to see my peers
getting bigger.

269
00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:35,260
I started to hear about diseases
like type 2 diabetes,

270
00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:37,980
cancer in younger people.

271
00:16:37,980 --> 00:16:40,300
I started to ask questions about,

272
00:16:40,300 --> 00:16:44,820
what is our impact as a food company
in the health of our nation?

273
00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:46,780
And that's why I changed careers.

274
00:16:48,540 --> 00:16:50,180
There's a lot of competition
out there,

275
00:16:50,180 --> 00:16:52,540
and food companies make their money

276
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:55,100
by the amount of products
we consume from them.

277
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,020
So there's a stomach share
that they're fighting for,

278
00:16:58,020 --> 00:17:00,340
and there are hours in the day

279
00:17:00,340 --> 00:17:02,420
in between breakfast,
lunch, and dinner.

280
00:17:02,420 --> 00:17:04,140
What happens between those hours?

281
00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:05,980
They want us to snack.

282
00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:08,220
ALARM BEEPS

283
00:17:08,220 --> 00:17:09,980
You wake up and
this is what you have.

284
00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:11,300
Snack number one -

285
00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:14,140
breakfast shake, ultra-processed.

286
00:17:14,140 --> 00:17:16,820
This is heavily marketed
for you to have on the go -

287
00:17:16,820 --> 00:17:21,140
do not sit down, do not take time
to crunch through something.

288
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:23,380
Snack number two of the day.

289
00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:26,540
It's empty calories.

290
00:17:26,540 --> 00:17:29,220
Energy-dense, nutrient-poor.

291
00:17:29,220 --> 00:17:31,980
Midday, you're starting to get
a little bit peckish,

292
00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:33,540
and what do you have?

293
00:17:33,540 --> 00:17:35,420
Veggie straws.

294
00:17:35,420 --> 00:17:38,540
This is a good example of a
health claim snacking product.

295
00:17:38,540 --> 00:17:42,260
Whereas before we would
have had food, actual food,

296
00:17:42,260 --> 00:17:45,340
now we are marketed into believing

297
00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:47,380
that this is actually
a healthy replacement.

298
00:17:49,060 --> 00:17:52,020
Some snacking products have now
been made to be linked

299
00:17:52,020 --> 00:17:53,700
with being physically active.

300
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:59,180
So after the gym, I have a
high-protein, low-sugar bar

301
00:17:59,180 --> 00:18:01,260
instead of having
a healthier option.

302
00:18:03,260 --> 00:18:06,420
You finish having dinner
and you have these snacks

303
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:09,420
that are sold to you
as "more to share,"

304
00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:13,580
where, in fact, you can just finish
them watching the TV by yourself.

305
00:18:13,580 --> 00:18:17,020
I do like them
and I cannot stop eating them.

306
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:22,340
SHE LAUGHS
And I literally can't.

307
00:18:22,340 --> 00:18:23,740
Oh, God.

308
00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:29,660
If you're a food company,

309
00:18:29,660 --> 00:18:32,300
there are two main ways
you can make more money.

310
00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:35,460
You can sell more food,
so you can grab more stomach share,

311
00:18:35,460 --> 00:18:38,340
or you can use cheaper ingredients.

312
00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:53,940
I'm Suzy Glaskie, and I used to work
for the food industry

313
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:56,500
for nearly 20 years.

314
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:01,260
And now I really want to

315
00:19:01,260 --> 00:19:05,660
lift the lid on how
food industry marketing

316
00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:08,620
is robbing us of our health.

317
00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:14,660
The first time I really started
to feel differently

318
00:19:14,660 --> 00:19:17,500
about the food industry
was when Sunny Delight came out.

319
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:18,860
Sunny Delight...

320
00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:21,860
It was sold as great
for all the family.

321
00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:23,500
Any more?
Coming right up.

322
00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:24,820
Thanks, Mum.

323
00:19:24,820 --> 00:19:26,180
So when can we move in, then?

324
00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:27,540
On your bike!

325
00:19:27,540 --> 00:19:30,860
And when I looked
at the ingredients,

326
00:19:30,860 --> 00:19:34,780
I realised this was
a really cheap product

327
00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:38,620
which had been dressed up
to be something healthy.

328
00:19:38,620 --> 00:19:42,100
And I think that's where
I drew the line.

329
00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,260
So the main thing that I worked on
were modified starches,

330
00:19:45,260 --> 00:19:47,940
and these were really,
really clever.

331
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:52,220
They can make snack foods
crunchy and crispy,

332
00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:54,660
and they can make yoghurts creamy

333
00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:57,580
and smoothies glossy.

334
00:20:00,220 --> 00:20:02,940
When we eat starch in a whole food,

335
00:20:02,940 --> 00:20:04,860
it's digested slowly.

336
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:10,580
But if that same starch
is highly processed,

337
00:20:10,580 --> 00:20:14,260
then it's broken down
very quickly by the body,

338
00:20:14,260 --> 00:20:16,620
and it spikes our blood sugar.

339
00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:20,380
And that then leads to
a whole host of health problems

340
00:20:20,380 --> 00:20:24,100
and also to our body storing fat.

341
00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:28,420
One of the starches
that I worked on,

342
00:20:28,420 --> 00:20:31,540
you could add it to a jam,
for example,

343
00:20:31,540 --> 00:20:38,180
and it would give the sensory
experience of having a strawberry

344
00:20:38,180 --> 00:20:41,060
without it actually being
a strawberry.

345
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:43,220
Fruit is expensive.

346
00:20:43,220 --> 00:20:45,060
It's difficult to handle.

347
00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:48,180
It spoils quickly.
It's expensive to transport.

348
00:20:49,340 --> 00:20:56,500
So it's kind of padding out products
with stuff that's just cheap,

349
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:59,620
but which mimics the real stuff.

350
00:21:16,020 --> 00:21:18,860
We develop food and beverage
products for companies of all sizes,

351
00:21:18,860 --> 00:21:21,380
so we've worked with
Heinz, Cadbury's, Pringles,

352
00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:22,780
Green & Black's Chocolate.

353
00:21:24,660 --> 00:21:27,900
Cost is such a big focus
when we're developing products -

354
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,380
from the ingredients,
the manufacturing, the shipping,

355
00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:33,380
and then from distributors
to retailers.

356
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:35,500
Everybody wants to make a profit.
They want to make a margin.

357
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,220
Here are the ingredients
that you need to make

358
00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:41,060
a home-made lemon cake.

359
00:21:41,060 --> 00:21:43,260
We've got lemons, unsurprisingly,

360
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:46,060
flour, sugar, butter, eggs,

361
00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:48,700
some bicarbonate of soda,
and some salt.

362
00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:52,460
But if you're going to make it
in a factory,

363
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:55,100
we've got quite a few things
that we need to consider.

364
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:58,140
And so I have here a slightly
longer list of ingredients...

365
00:21:58,140 --> 00:22:02,340
More than double. ..that you might
see in a cake from a supermarket.

366
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:05,060
One of the main considerations
has to be the shelf life.

367
00:22:05,060 --> 00:22:07,340
Of course, yeah. Because
your lovely home-made recipe,

368
00:22:07,340 --> 00:22:09,100
you're talking days...
Exactly.

369
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:11,660
..before it starts to go mouldy
and just frankly, stale. Yeah.

370
00:22:11,660 --> 00:22:13,540
Whereas something in the supermarket

371
00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:16,220
is going to need months
of shelf life. Exactly.

372
00:22:16,220 --> 00:22:20,420
You'll see here, we've got potassium
sorbate as one of the preservatives,

373
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:24,060
and that is to inhibit the growth
of mould and yeasts

374
00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:25,980
so that your cake doesn't go off.

375
00:22:25,980 --> 00:22:29,460
It's quite bitter, a bit like biting
on a paracetamol or something.

376
00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:32,020
And so some of the ways that
you might mask some of these

377
00:22:32,020 --> 00:22:35,940
bitter tastes might be with
the flavouring, for one, the salt.

378
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:38,420
And then something else
that you can't ignore

379
00:22:38,420 --> 00:22:41,420
with an ingredient list like this
is how much cheaper it will be.

380
00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:55,140
Across the board, we're substituting

381
00:22:55,140 --> 00:22:58,460
rich ingredients like eggs
and butter with cheaper ones,

382
00:22:58,460 --> 00:23:02,340
but also some of the ingredients
from stabilisers and starches.

383
00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:05,780
Yeah. It's all allowing you
to use cheaper ingredients.

384
00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:23,820
If you sit in my clinic,
if you work in this hospital,

385
00:23:23,820 --> 00:23:27,740
you see the toll that diet-related
diseases takes on our patients.

386
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,420
There's incredibly strong evidence
that the cause of the pandemic

387
00:23:35,420 --> 00:23:38,620
of obesity and diet-related disease
that's sweeping the globe

388
00:23:38,620 --> 00:23:42,060
is industrially processed,
packaged foods.

389
00:23:55,460 --> 00:24:00,020
Previously, describing these goods
was really hard scientifically.

390
00:24:00,020 --> 00:24:02,740
We called it junk food or fast food.

391
00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:07,660
And then a little while ago,
a friend gave me this paper.

392
00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:11,020
It's published in an obscure
Brazilian public health journal.

393
00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:13,060
It says,
"A new classification of foods

394
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:15,340
"based on the extent and purpose
of their processing."

395
00:24:15,340 --> 00:24:17,180
Not an appealing read,
so I ignored it,

396
00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:19,180
left it on the desk for weeks.

397
00:24:21,580 --> 00:24:23,580
But I eventually got around
to reading it.

398
00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:33,340
And I thought, if it's true,
this might be the most important

399
00:24:33,340 --> 00:24:35,780
scientific paper published
so far this century.

400
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:13,580
Carlos Monteiro was proposing
something really radical.

401
00:27:13,580 --> 00:27:16,900
Previously, we'd focused on
sugar, saturated fat, and salt

402
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:18,700
as being the problem.

403
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:24,100
And he said, "Well, maybe
it's the industrial processing

404
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:26,540
"that is making us all
eat a lot of these

405
00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:29,460
"and having maybe other effects
as well."

406
00:27:29,460 --> 00:27:33,420
We've been doing food processing
for thousands,

407
00:27:33,420 --> 00:27:35,700
probably hundreds
of thousands of years,

408
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:39,740
without significant health problems,
where we take whole food

409
00:27:39,740 --> 00:27:43,380
and we smoke it, we salt it,
we preserve it, we ferment it.

410
00:27:43,380 --> 00:27:45,780
It's essential for human life.

411
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,900
Ultra-processed food
is entirely different.

412
00:27:54,020 --> 00:27:56,020
And the full definition is very long,

413
00:27:56,020 --> 00:27:59,380
but if you're wondering if something
you're eating is ultra-processed,

414
00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:00,900
look at the ingredients list.

415
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:03,660
And if you see things that
you wouldn't expect to find

416
00:28:03,660 --> 00:28:06,780
in a home kitchen, then it's
probably an ultra-processed food.

417
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:13,340
When I first read this paper,
it seemed really important,

418
00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:16,140
but I had some doubts,
and I wasn't the only one.

419
00:28:16,140 --> 00:28:18,860
Lots of people were very sceptical
about it.

420
00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:30,300
My name is Dr Kevin Hall.

421
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:33,380
I'm a senior investigator here
at the National Institute of Health.

422
00:28:34,540 --> 00:28:37,260
I first heard about this idea
of ultra-processed foods,

423
00:28:37,260 --> 00:28:40,300
which basically says that nutrients
aren't important at all.

424
00:28:40,300 --> 00:28:43,100
It's really about the extent
and purpose of processing,

425
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,220
and it seemed a little crazy to me
because we have

426
00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:49,300
a whole history of nutrition
science, focusing on nutrients.

427
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:52,420
And then along comes Carlos
and says, you know,

428
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:56,180
"You've been focusing on the wrong
thing for the past several decades."

429
00:28:56,180 --> 00:28:59,060
So we enlisted the help
of our dieticians

430
00:28:59,060 --> 00:29:01,180
here at the NIH Clinical Center,

431
00:29:01,180 --> 00:29:03,980
and I gave them what I thought was
maybe an impossible task -

432
00:29:03,980 --> 00:29:05,700
"Can you design two diets?

433
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:10,620
"In one case, all of the foods
come from minimally processed foods.

434
00:29:12,980 --> 00:29:15,780
"And alternatively,
an ultra-processed diet

435
00:29:15,780 --> 00:29:18,860
"that is matched for the salt,
the sugar, the fat, the fibre."

436
00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:27,340
And the idea of the study
was to bring 20 men and women

437
00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:31,060
into the Clinical Center, where
they would live with us for a month.

438
00:29:31,060 --> 00:29:33,740
So you have an hour to finish it,
or less.

439
00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:36,460
We'd take complete control
over their food environment

440
00:29:36,460 --> 00:29:39,300
and present them with meals
and very simple instructions -

441
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:41,820
"Just eat as much
or as little as you'd like."

442
00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:43,780
And what they didn't know was that

443
00:29:43,780 --> 00:29:46,860
at the end of each of the meals,
we were measuring their leftovers.

444
00:29:46,860 --> 00:29:49,140
He ate most of the tater tots.

445
00:29:49,140 --> 00:29:52,300
The dieticians downstairs
will actually weigh it back,

446
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:55,020
and we'll know the exact quantity
that's left over.

447
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:58,580
We were measuring
their weights every day.

448
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:01,380
We were measuring how many
calories their bodies were burning,

449
00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:05,340
their oxygen consumption,
their carbon dioxide production.

450
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:08,340
My hypothesis going in
was that we would see

451
00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:10,780
very, very little difference in the
number of calories people ate.

452
00:30:10,780 --> 00:30:12,660
And of course, I was wrong.

453
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:14,380
It turned out that the people,

454
00:30:14,380 --> 00:30:16,860
when they were on
the ultra-processed diet,

455
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:20,620
they spontaneously overate calories,
about 500 calories per day

456
00:30:20,620 --> 00:30:23,660
greater than when they were
on the minimally processed diet.

457
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,180
I'm going to take your temperature,
if that's all right. Sure.

458
00:30:28,180 --> 00:30:31,940
What we discovered was that
the ultra-processed foods,

459
00:30:31,940 --> 00:30:35,020
despite being matched
for their nutrient composition,

460
00:30:35,020 --> 00:30:38,220
they tended to have
many more calories per bite.

461
00:30:38,220 --> 00:30:41,540
Another thing that we found
was that we ended up preparing

462
00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:44,900
and presenting people with foods
that were high in sugar and fat.

463
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:48,500
That's something that's very rare
to see in a food in nature.

464
00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:51,540
These are so-called
hyperpalatable foods,

465
00:30:51,540 --> 00:30:54,500
and we ended up presenting
people with more of those

466
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:57,300
hyperpalatable foods
on the ultra-processed diet.

467
00:31:05,660 --> 00:31:07,700
At the time it was published,
Kevin Hall's experiment

468
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:10,500
was so important because
it was really good quality evidence

469
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:14,300
that ultra-processed food
does make you eat too much of it.

470
00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:17,700
Now it's just one scientific paper

471
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:20,860
in a huge and rapidly growing
body of evidence.

472
00:31:20,860 --> 00:31:23,540
I think one of the biggest problems
with this kind of food

473
00:31:23,540 --> 00:31:26,300
is that so many of us
struggle to stop eating it.

474
00:31:33,740 --> 00:31:38,860
APPLAUSE

475
00:31:38,860 --> 00:31:40,140
Hi, everyone.

476
00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:44,100
I'm so thrilled to be here today
to speak with you on my research

477
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:47,500
that looks at parallels
between addictive substances

478
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:49,060
and ultra-processed food.

479
00:31:50,420 --> 00:31:52,340
I'm Dr Ashley Gearhardt.

480
00:31:52,340 --> 00:31:55,820
I'm a professor of psychology
at the University of Michigan

481
00:31:55,820 --> 00:31:59,820
and the director of the Food and
Addiction Science and Treatment lab.

482
00:31:59,820 --> 00:32:04,420
Both fat and sugar are converging
on the same neural reward centre,

483
00:32:04,420 --> 00:32:07,860
so it really seems to be
hyperpalatable food products

484
00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:09,740
that kind of mimic
the reward profile

485
00:32:09,740 --> 00:32:11,660
that we see with addictive drugs.

486
00:32:11,660 --> 00:32:13,420
When we look at the sorts of foods

487
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:16,860
that trigger those key diagnostic
indicators of addiction,

488
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:18,860
it's really clear what it's not.

489
00:32:18,860 --> 00:32:21,660
It's not minimally processed foods,

490
00:32:21,660 --> 00:32:24,740
like fruits or vegetables or beans,

491
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:27,220
or lean meats, like chicken breasts.

492
00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:32,220
It's really processed foods
that deliver high doses

493
00:32:32,220 --> 00:32:35,580
of refined carbohydrates
like sugars and starches,

494
00:32:35,580 --> 00:32:39,220
typically alongside
high levels of fat.

495
00:32:39,220 --> 00:32:42,620
It's chocolate, it's ice cream,
it's pizza.

496
00:32:42,620 --> 00:32:45,020
It's foods that don't exist
in nature.

497
00:32:47,660 --> 00:32:51,060
One of the first things that we did
was try and understand

498
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:54,060
how do we identify someone
who might actually

499
00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:56,340
be experiencing an addiction?

500
00:32:56,340 --> 00:32:58,860
So we created the
Yale Food Addiction Scale,

501
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:01,420
which is the major tool used

502
00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:04,820
to measure an addiction
to ultra-processed food.

503
00:33:06,260 --> 00:33:09,180
We've really looked at
the diagnostic criteria

504
00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:12,260
that we use to diagnose somebody
with an alcohol addiction,

505
00:33:12,260 --> 00:33:16,380
a tobacco addiction, asking people
about their experiences

506
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:20,860
of losing control over their intake,
really intense cravings,

507
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:25,380
continuing to use even though you're
having really negative consequences.

508
00:33:28,340 --> 00:33:30,220
"When I started
to eat certain foods,

509
00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:32,100
"I ate much more than planned."

510
00:33:32,100 --> 00:33:34,140
Yes, every day.

511
00:33:34,140 --> 00:33:36,700
I'm Sarita, I'm 48 years old,

512
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,420
and I'm a food addict.

513
00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:49,100
Processed food has this control
over me.

514
00:33:49,100 --> 00:33:51,620
I don't want to binge
on a bowl of broccoli.

515
00:33:51,620 --> 00:33:55,020
It's the crap food.
There's something in it.

516
00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:58,780
And I've struggled with
drug and alcohol addiction,

517
00:33:58,780 --> 00:34:01,660
and the parallels are too similar
for there not to be a link.

518
00:34:06,180 --> 00:34:09,620
Most people in my position
binge in the evenings.

519
00:34:09,620 --> 00:34:12,700
I will start with cereal,
and it's always really sweet cereal,

520
00:34:12,700 --> 00:34:14,940
so BLEEP is a good one.

521
00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:19,460
I would pour as much of that
into a mixing bowl -

522
00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:22,020
not a normal bowl, a mixing bowl -

523
00:34:22,020 --> 00:34:24,060
and start with that.

524
00:34:24,060 --> 00:34:27,540
You're talking, you are talking
a box of cereal

525
00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:30,380
and three or four huge bars
of chocolates,

526
00:34:30,380 --> 00:34:31,940
and a couple of packets
of biscuits -

527
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:35,300
way more food than you'd think
a person could eat.

528
00:34:36,780 --> 00:34:40,820
Then after that, it's just about
how quickly can I purge it?

529
00:34:41,820 --> 00:34:44,100
By purging,
I mean making myself sick.

530
00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:49,700
I'm an intelligent person.

531
00:34:49,700 --> 00:34:51,780
I'm a fitness fanatic.

532
00:34:51,780 --> 00:34:57,260
I know that my bingeing behaviour
is really bad for me

533
00:34:57,260 --> 00:35:03,780
and could end in heart attacks
and diabetes and all sorts of stuff.

534
00:35:03,780 --> 00:35:08,300
That's why I know it's an addiction,
because I don't seem to care.

535
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:09,500
I don't care.

536
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:14,580
So I wanted to give you
a bit of a sense of the people

537
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:16,060
who've come into our lab.

538
00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:18,980
This individual had severe food
addiction, and they said,

539
00:35:18,980 --> 00:35:23,020
"I can't even be in the same room
as any type of doughnuts,

540
00:35:23,020 --> 00:35:26,940
"because I will finish a dozen
all by myself, and I'm a type..."

541
00:35:26,940 --> 00:35:31,300
The potency and the reward power
of these ultra-processed foods

542
00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:35,780
can trigger an addictive response
that leads them to consume these

543
00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:39,180
in such a compulsive way that,
even if they want to cut down,

544
00:35:39,180 --> 00:35:42,420
even if they know it's killing them,
they find they can't stop.

545
00:35:44,060 --> 00:35:46,580
We have to eat to live.

546
00:35:46,580 --> 00:35:51,140
So giving up drugs, you just
quit completely and that's it.

547
00:35:52,620 --> 00:35:56,860
But how do you stop
eating processed food?

548
00:35:58,140 --> 00:35:59,780
It's everywhere you go.

549
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:08,980
Food addiction is a growing
field of study.

550
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:12,940
There are lots of people
who have well-founded concerns

551
00:36:12,940 --> 00:36:17,300
about demonising an entire category
of food, and I understand that.

552
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:21,500
But, personally, I find it
really hard to disagree

553
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:24,500
with the testimony of many
of my patients,

554
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,180
who feel that they are addicted
to these products.

555
00:36:31,780 --> 00:36:34,380
You have to make products
taste palatable,

556
00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:37,620
but what's happened is that
palatability has been turned into,

557
00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:40,940
"Well, it's too good.
It's addictive. It's too tasty."

558
00:36:40,940 --> 00:36:43,700
I mean, is there a point
at which you can make a food taste

559
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:46,260
good enough that people will eat it,

560
00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:50,300
but not too good that it's going
to be called hyper-palatable?

561
00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:52,300
Yeah, but you know what?

562
00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:55,260
If somebody makes the
hyper-palatable one,

563
00:36:55,260 --> 00:36:57,020
they'll stop eating the other one
anyway.

564
00:36:57,020 --> 00:36:59,020
We have to make products
that taste good.

565
00:36:59,020 --> 00:37:00,140
People want that.

566
00:37:00,140 --> 00:37:01,300
We're not going to mandate

567
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:03,780
that everybody's got
to make their food taste bad,

568
00:37:03,780 --> 00:37:05,020
I don't think.

569
00:37:05,020 --> 00:37:06,860
It's not a world I want to be in.

570
00:37:13,460 --> 00:37:17,180
We have a growing body of evidence
that, for some people,

571
00:37:17,180 --> 00:37:18,980
this food is addictive.

572
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,820
And that makes me think about
the tobacco industry.

573
00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:34,260
Laura Schmidt.

574
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:37,820
I'm a professor at UC San Francisco
in the School of Medicine.

575
00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:44,820
I'd been working on ultra-processed
foods for a while,

576
00:37:44,820 --> 00:37:48,820
and one of my colleagues said, "Hey,
you know, I've been poking around

577
00:37:48,820 --> 00:37:52,420
"in the tobacco archive, and
I know you're interested in food.

578
00:37:52,420 --> 00:37:54,780
"You might want to check these out.

579
00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:01,340
And it turns out that there
were hundreds of thousands

580
00:38:01,340 --> 00:38:05,380
of documents in the tobacco archive
about food companies.

581
00:38:10,100 --> 00:38:14,540
From the 1960s, RJ Reynolds,
the tobacco company,

582
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:17,460
starts buying up food subsidiaries.

583
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:23,900
Why would a giant tobacco company
buy up a food company?

584
00:38:25,180 --> 00:38:27,780
And the answer was something
we did not expect.

585
00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:33,620
The people in the tobacco companies
had a bunch of artificial colours

586
00:38:33,620 --> 00:38:38,540
and flavours, developed in their
labs, that they were making

587
00:38:38,540 --> 00:38:42,220
to add to cigarettes,
flavours and colours like menthol.

588
00:38:43,620 --> 00:38:47,340
Their labs are developing them
to put into cigarettes

589
00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:51,700
and create different products
to target new consumers.

590
00:38:51,700 --> 00:38:53,300
They call them line extensions.

591
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:56,500
# You've come a long way, baby

592
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:59,220
# To get where you got to today... #

593
00:38:59,220 --> 00:39:02,060
Virginia Slims,
for women who want to get thin.

594
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:05,700
Marlboro, for men who are
couch potatoes

595
00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:08,540
but actually want to be cowboys.

596
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:12,100
# Listen while I tell you a story

597
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:16,100
# The tale of the Marlboro brand... #

598
00:39:17,180 --> 00:39:19,100
They were targeting children.

599
00:39:24,100 --> 00:39:30,180
Joe Camel was a cartoon mascot that
RJ Reynolds put on Camel cigarettes

600
00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:33,340
because they really wanted
to make kids know the brand

601
00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:37,540
so that, when they became cigarette
consumers, they would smoke Camels.

602
00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:41,220
One survey found six-year-olds
in the US as familiar with

603
00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:43,340
Joe the Camel as with Mickey Mouse.

604
00:39:44,580 --> 00:39:51,060
The tobacco industry had cultivated
this strategy of taking a single,

605
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:54,860
utterly boring product
and making it come alive

606
00:39:54,860 --> 00:39:59,860
with colours, flavours, branding,
marketing, cartoon mascots,

607
00:39:59,860 --> 00:40:02,340
to target different
consumer markets.

608
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:08,340
And we found this memo,
and this memo was written in 1962,

609
00:40:08,340 --> 00:40:15,100
by the guy who ran the labs,
to the CEO of RJ Reynolds.

610
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:20,260
And he literally says here, "It's
easy to characterise RJ Reynolds

611
00:40:20,260 --> 00:40:22,460
"merely as a tobacco company.

612
00:40:23,980 --> 00:40:27,380
"In a broader and much less
restricting sense, however,

613
00:40:27,380 --> 00:40:30,420
"RJ Reynolds is in
the flavour business."

614
00:40:34,220 --> 00:40:38,660
And here, he's talking about
a merger with a company called

615
00:40:38,660 --> 00:40:41,140
Pacific Hawaiian Products Company.

616
00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:48,740
And they only make one thing,
and that's Hawaiian Punch.

617
00:40:52,180 --> 00:40:56,140
Hawaiian Punch was one flavour
and one colour.

618
00:40:56,140 --> 00:41:00,460
It was bright red,
and it was being marketed to adults.

619
00:41:00,460 --> 00:41:04,820
And within a couple of years,
they had transformed this product

620
00:41:04,820 --> 00:41:06,700
into a children's beverage.

621
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:09,100
Hey, how about a nice
Hawaiian Punch? Sure!

622
00:41:12,580 --> 00:41:15,140
# What gives Hawaiian Punch
its punch?

623
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:16,580
# Its punch? #

624
00:41:16,580 --> 00:41:21,180
They intuitively understood that
getting the kid hooked was the goal,

625
00:41:21,180 --> 00:41:24,260
because that kid is going to be
a lifelong consumer.

626
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:28,300
What's so brilliant
about the marketing strategy

627
00:41:28,300 --> 00:41:34,220
is you can take that tobacco model
and apply it to the food industry.

628
00:41:36,820 --> 00:41:39,820
You can make massive numbers
of line extensions.

629
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:41,700
Wasn't that a refreshing commercial?

630
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:46,300
Very sophisticated advertising
campaigns that allow you to kind of

631
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:48,740
get inside the minds of consumers

632
00:41:48,740 --> 00:41:51,460
and make them want
what you have to sell.

633
00:41:55,220 --> 00:41:59,980
We know that people in food
companies were putting people

634
00:41:59,980 --> 00:42:04,940
in a brain scan to observe what
goes on in the brain when people

635
00:42:04,940 --> 00:42:08,500
are exposed to the food products
that they were developing.

636
00:42:08,500 --> 00:42:13,260
Whether or not they intended to make
all of these foods addictive,

637
00:42:13,260 --> 00:42:14,940
I don't know.

638
00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:21,540
What we can say is that, if
you're eating a brand that was ever

639
00:42:21,540 --> 00:42:25,900
owned by a tobacco company,
there's a stronger likelihood

640
00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,500
that it has been developed
to make you want more.

641
00:42:43,460 --> 00:42:47,140
The biggest cigarette companies
in the world were also

642
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:48,500
the biggest food companies.

643
00:42:48,500 --> 00:42:50,620
They were the same companies.

644
00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:55,140
And of course, over decades,
the tobacco industry perfected

645
00:42:55,140 --> 00:42:58,940
the techniques for denying
any of their products were addictive.

646
00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:12,740
Hi, I'm Steve Parrish.

647
00:43:12,740 --> 00:43:15,260
Today, we're going to set
the record straight.

648
00:43:15,260 --> 00:43:17,820
Cigarettes neither alter
a person's mood

649
00:43:17,820 --> 00:43:22,660
nor do they impair an individual's
ability to function.

650
00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:24,900
Those people who term smoking
an addiction

651
00:43:24,900 --> 00:43:29,100
do so for political and ideological,
not scientific reasons.

652
00:43:33,140 --> 00:43:36,900
I retired in 2008
from Altria Group Inc,

653
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:40,220
formerly known as Philip Morris,
the tobacco company,

654
00:43:40,220 --> 00:43:43,060
where I was the senior Vice
President of corporate affairs.

655
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:49,740
In the early 1990s, there was
really a sea change in attitudes

656
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:53,180
about the tobacco industry
in the United States,

657
00:43:53,180 --> 00:43:56,940
and it seemed like it was
the year of the perfect storm.

658
00:43:56,940 --> 00:44:00,380
In 1994, when there
were Congressional hearings...

659
00:44:00,380 --> 00:44:02,060
Please consider yourself
to be under oath.

660
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:07,580
..members of Congress asked the CEOs
of the various tobacco companies,

661
00:44:07,580 --> 00:44:09,900
do you believe cigarette smoking
is addictive?

662
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:11,580
Do you believe nicotine
is not addictive?

663
00:44:11,580 --> 00:44:13,580
I believe nicotine is not
addictive, yes.

664
00:44:13,580 --> 00:44:17,700
Cigarettes and nicotine
clearly do not meet the classic

665
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:19,300
definitions of addiction.

666
00:44:19,300 --> 00:44:22,340
I don't believe that nicotine
or our products are addictive.

667
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:24,420
I believe nicotine is not addictive.

668
00:44:24,420 --> 00:44:26,580
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.

669
00:44:28,020 --> 00:44:30,380
I believe that nicotine
is not addictive.

670
00:44:31,660 --> 00:44:34,300
And I too believe that nicotine
is not addictive.

671
00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:38,180
At the end of a two-day hearing,
the expert committee decided

672
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:40,420
that, yes, cigarette smoking
is addictive.

673
00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:44,980
And then, a few years later,
our company, Philip Morris,

674
00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:50,180
decided to change its position
and acknowledge the fact

675
00:44:50,180 --> 00:44:52,580
that cigarette smoking is addictive.

676
00:44:54,140 --> 00:44:56,220
When our company made
that announcement,

677
00:44:56,220 --> 00:45:00,500
it caused quite a stir,
and even a bigger stir

678
00:45:00,500 --> 00:45:02,540
when we announced that we were
in favour of

679
00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:06,380
the Food and Drug Administration
regulating the tobacco industry.

680
00:45:07,740 --> 00:45:13,860
When Philip Morris companies saw
that there was a continual decline,

681
00:45:13,860 --> 00:45:17,340
year over year over year,
in cigarette smoking,

682
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:21,700
it just made sense for the company
to look beyond tobacco.

683
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:26,260
And there were similarities
in the products, not in terms

684
00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:29,980
of the products themselves,
but where they were bought and sold,

685
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:33,980
grocery stores, convenience stores,
and places like that.

686
00:45:41,860 --> 00:45:44,180
Yeah, you know, I don't know
the answer to that question.

687
00:45:44,180 --> 00:45:48,860
I don't know whether
specific food products

688
00:45:48,860 --> 00:45:51,580
would meet that definition
of addiction.

689
00:45:51,580 --> 00:45:54,020
I would leave that to people
who have studied the products

690
00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:56,100
and studied the science there.

691
00:45:57,620 --> 00:46:01,660
I don't know whether any companies
would admit addiction

692
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:05,820
of a particular food product,
but I would hope that the companies

693
00:46:05,820 --> 00:46:11,620
would listen to the science
and say and do the right thing.

694
00:46:17,780 --> 00:46:21,740
I think right now we are,
with ultra-processed food,

695
00:46:21,740 --> 00:46:25,140
a bit like where we were in the '60s
with cigarettes.

696
00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:29,540
And, in my opinion, the food industry
is using many of the same techniques

697
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,980
that the tobacco industry used
to protect their interests,

698
00:46:32,980 --> 00:46:35,580
and lots of scientists
have experienced this first-hand.

699
00:46:46,140 --> 00:46:49,340
I'm Dana Small.
I'm a neuroscientist.

700
00:46:49,340 --> 00:46:54,340
I'm interested in how the brain
and the body work together

701
00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:56,060
to optimise behaviour.

702
00:46:59,380 --> 00:47:02,020
Pepsi came to us and they were
interested to know

703
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:05,460
whether they could reduce
the amount of sugar in beverages

704
00:47:05,460 --> 00:47:07,260
to make healthier drinks.

705
00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:12,300
Now, to keep the calories down,
you might add some artificial

706
00:47:12,300 --> 00:47:14,140
sweeteners to increase
the sweetness,

707
00:47:14,140 --> 00:47:15,820
but without getting the calories.

708
00:47:15,820 --> 00:47:20,300
So we designed this study where
we had five different beverages,

709
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:22,340
and they had different
amounts of calories,

710
00:47:22,340 --> 00:47:25,380
but we wanted them
to be similarly sweet.

711
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:29,340
So we used sweetener,
which doesn't have any calories.

712
00:47:29,340 --> 00:47:32,820
Yeah, this is not very elegant,
but in she goes.

713
00:47:32,820 --> 00:47:33,940
Sorry.

714
00:47:35,020 --> 00:47:38,980
She'll actually be in there
receiving little tastes

715
00:47:38,980 --> 00:47:42,740
of the different flavours
and then swallowing and then waiting

716
00:47:42,740 --> 00:47:44,660
for the next flavour to come.

717
00:47:45,940 --> 00:47:49,540
When you look at brain responses
to these different flavours,

718
00:47:49,540 --> 00:47:53,140
you can see the dopamine
and reward system.

719
00:47:53,140 --> 00:47:56,460
And what we found
was completely unanticipated.

720
00:47:58,780 --> 00:48:02,740
We actually didn't see a negative
impact of just drinking, like,

721
00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:04,220
a diet drink.

722
00:48:04,220 --> 00:48:08,500
But when we had a diet drink
and we added calories...

723
00:48:09,980 --> 00:48:11,780
..that's when we saw changes.

724
00:48:14,020 --> 00:48:19,020
So, for example, it's OK
to have your diet soda by itself.

725
00:48:19,020 --> 00:48:22,700
But if you have the diet soda
with French fries,

726
00:48:22,700 --> 00:48:26,060
you're going to have artificial
sweeteners and carbohydrates,

727
00:48:26,060 --> 00:48:27,980
and that's when you're going to
get into trouble.

728
00:48:30,020 --> 00:48:32,900
There's a lot we don't understand
about sweeteners but,

729
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:36,860
in very simple terms, if you put
a sweet taste on the tongue,

730
00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:40,300
it signals to your body
that sugar is on the way.

731
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:42,540
And if sugar doesn't then arrive,

732
00:48:42,540 --> 00:48:46,980
that seems to have several
unexpected effects on the body,

733
00:48:46,980 --> 00:48:49,260
and it may even lead to weight gain.

734
00:48:52,660 --> 00:48:56,860
If the effect we've observed
generalises, then it follows

735
00:48:56,860 --> 00:49:01,260
that consuming diet food
can actually lead to weight gain,

736
00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:05,580
rather than weight loss. Now, that
needs to be tested experimentally,

737
00:49:05,580 --> 00:49:08,420
but the logic is straightforward
to that prediction.

738
00:49:11,340 --> 00:49:14,380
We were discovering something
pretty important

739
00:49:14,380 --> 00:49:17,940
and, rather than being able
to continue with this,

740
00:49:17,940 --> 00:49:19,940
PepsiCo dropped us.

741
00:49:25,060 --> 00:49:26,420
We're experimenting.

742
00:49:26,420 --> 00:49:28,220
We're trying to figure things out.

743
00:49:28,220 --> 00:49:31,780
But during this process,
you could discover something

744
00:49:31,780 --> 00:49:33,340
that is harmful.

745
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:38,780
So that leaves them vulnerable
to lawsuits,

746
00:49:38,780 --> 00:49:42,380
which is exactly what happened
in the tobacco industry.

747
00:50:47,300 --> 00:50:51,500
National surveys fail to show
any link between body mass index

748
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:54,420
and consumption
of ultra-processed foods.

749
00:51:03,460 --> 00:51:07,820
Melissa Mialon found that, out of 38
papers questioning the science

750
00:51:07,820 --> 00:51:09,340
around ultra-processed food,

751
00:51:09,340 --> 00:51:13,820
33 of them had authors with
connections to the food industry.

752
00:51:13,820 --> 00:51:18,220
So the food industry exerts its
influence in a lot of subtle ways,

753
00:51:18,220 --> 00:51:20,500
and I've had personal experience
of some of these.

754
00:51:22,420 --> 00:51:25,900
The companies have been very,
very keen to get in touch with me,

755
00:51:25,900 --> 00:51:29,940
to invite me to give talks
and presentations,

756
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:32,540
to fly across the Atlantic.

757
00:51:32,540 --> 00:51:33,900
Most of the time, I say no.

758
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:38,180
In one instance, I thought,
"Well, let me get the contract

759
00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:41,140
"and see how all this looks."

760
00:51:41,140 --> 00:51:43,460
Is this a really well-known
food company, then?

761
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:45,020
So this is one of the big...

762
00:51:45,020 --> 00:51:47,460
Yeah, this is a big food company.

763
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:51,860
So I got a contract,
and they offered me about £20,000

764
00:51:51,860 --> 00:51:53,340
for a two-hour meeting.

765
00:51:54,380 --> 00:51:56,780
And I cannot understand
why they want to pay me,

766
00:51:56,780 --> 00:51:59,980
so I got a lawyer to help me
understand this.

767
00:51:59,980 --> 00:52:01,660
So here's the relevant bit.

768
00:52:01,660 --> 00:52:06,740
It says that I will not make
any statement as shall disparage

769
00:52:06,740 --> 00:52:08,820
the food company or its products,

770
00:52:08,820 --> 00:52:11,660
or bring the company name
into disrepute.

771
00:52:11,660 --> 00:52:16,420
So for about £20,000, they buy my
silence on ultra-processed food.

772
00:52:17,980 --> 00:52:21,460
Their most effective strategy
is to fund people who sound credible,

773
00:52:21,460 --> 00:52:23,900
who create confusion and doubt.

774
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:27,300
That is what the tobacco industry did
so beautifully.

775
00:52:36,980 --> 00:52:41,340
The situation seems overwhelming,
but there is hope.

776
00:52:41,340 --> 00:52:43,780
First of all, we did control tobacco,

777
00:52:43,780 --> 00:52:45,580
not perfectly, but we did it.

778
00:52:45,580 --> 00:52:46,900
The second thing is,

779
00:52:46,900 --> 00:52:49,780
if you look at countries across
South and Central America,

780
00:52:49,780 --> 00:52:52,820
they are bringing in policies
that are making a difference.

781
00:53:02,820 --> 00:53:04,780
My name is Juan Castro.

782
00:53:04,780 --> 00:53:07,180
I'm trained as a doctor.

783
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:17,940
If I look at some of these
Colombian warning labels, you know,

784
00:55:17,940 --> 00:55:20,540
it feels quite shocking
to have a warning label

785
00:55:20,540 --> 00:55:23,340
on these very sort of
everyday products.

786
00:55:23,340 --> 00:55:27,260
You know, you might pause
if there was a big black octagon

787
00:55:27,260 --> 00:55:28,980
on your kids' breakfast cereal.

788
00:55:30,420 --> 00:55:31,780
Well, the food industry would say,

789
00:55:31,780 --> 00:55:34,260
"Oh, the definition of
ultra-processed food

790
00:55:34,260 --> 00:55:38,540
"includes lots of healthy foods, like
wholegrain, ultra-processed bread,

791
00:55:38,540 --> 00:55:40,660
"fish fingers, baked beans."

792
00:55:41,860 --> 00:55:43,820
Now, this makes me incredibly angry.

793
00:55:43,820 --> 00:55:46,460
This is food that I do feed
my children, OK?

794
00:55:46,460 --> 00:55:49,220
The fish fingers -
very high in salt and fat.

795
00:55:49,220 --> 00:55:52,020
The baked beans -
very high in salt and sugar, OK?

796
00:55:52,020 --> 00:55:53,900
The supermarket
ultra-processed bread,

797
00:55:53,900 --> 00:55:57,420
even if it's got whole grains -
very high in sugar and salt.

798
00:55:57,420 --> 00:56:01,460
So is this the worst food
you can buy? Absolutely not.

799
00:56:01,460 --> 00:56:04,140
But is it the foundation
of a healthy diet?

800
00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:06,140
It certainly isn't, no.

801
00:56:06,140 --> 00:56:07,860
And in lots of countries,

802
00:56:07,860 --> 00:56:11,260
all of those products would get
warning labels for salt, fat, sugar.

803
00:56:17,820 --> 00:56:21,260
For years, the phrase was
"everything in moderation."

804
00:56:21,260 --> 00:56:23,620
You know, it's as true today
as it was

805
00:56:23,620 --> 00:56:25,340
when whoever first coined it.

806
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:30,220
We're faced with so many challenges
in the world today,

807
00:56:30,220 --> 00:56:33,260
and certainly in
providing a food supply.

808
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:38,260
Some of the discussion that,
you know, I hear,

809
00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:41,460
whether it be on chemicals
or ultra-processed foods,

810
00:56:41,460 --> 00:56:44,580
seems to be designed
to stop us from doing that.

811
00:56:44,580 --> 00:56:47,460
And I don't think that's
a very smart place to be.

812
00:56:53,460 --> 00:56:57,940
Researchers say ultra-processed
foods now make up 73%

813
00:56:57,940 --> 00:57:00,140
of the US food supply.

814
00:57:00,140 --> 00:57:03,100
Global obesity rates have doubled.

815
00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:06,460
Now they've found ultra-processed
food can cause harm

816
00:57:06,460 --> 00:57:07,940
similar to smoking.

817
00:57:07,940 --> 00:57:11,060
..from the University of Oxford
highlights the enormous financial

818
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:14,500
power of unhealthy
ultra-processed foods.

819
00:57:19,180 --> 00:57:23,060
Imagine you're trying to cut down
on ultra-processed food

820
00:57:23,060 --> 00:57:24,780
or avoid it altogether.

821
00:57:27,540 --> 00:57:29,620
For a start, it might be
the only food you can afford,

822
00:57:29,620 --> 00:57:31,460
and that is true
for millions of people.

823
00:57:32,740 --> 00:57:36,940
But it's everywhere,
and it's engineered and then marketed

824
00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:41,260
by some of the smartest people
on Earth to be irresistible.

825
00:57:44,460 --> 00:57:46,620
So if someone is watching this
and they are struggling

826
00:57:46,620 --> 00:57:49,820
with their weight, with diet-related
disease, I just want to reach out

827
00:57:49,820 --> 00:57:52,100
and grab them and go,
"This is not your fault.

828
00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:54,500
"It is not you. It is the food."