1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,840 Tonight, we're going to embark on a Royal Institution 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:06,960 murder mystery investigation. 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,600 And this is our crime scene. But there's no body. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,560 And actually, at first sight, there's nothing to suggest 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,520 that even a crime has taken place, 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,280 until you start to look... 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:24,760 ..with a more forensic lens. 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:26,880 I wonder what we might find? 9 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,280 Join us as we try to piece together the evidence 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,200 to solve a murder mystery when the body is missing. 11 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,120 APPLAUSE 12 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,800 In this, the second of the Christmas lectures 13 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:35,960 at the Royal Institution, we'll reveal how the police 14 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:39,760 use forensic science to investigate and interrogate 15 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,160 a potential crime scene. 16 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,240 Much of the evidence that we'll collect over the next hour 17 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,680 will depend on a fundamental premise of forensic science known as 18 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,320 Locard's Exchange Principle. 19 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,040 When there's a contact between two items, 20 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,880 then there will be an exchange. 21 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,000 When we enter into a space, there'll be an exchange. 22 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,040 We will leave with something and we will leave something behind. 23 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:10,440 So can I have a first volunteer, please? 24 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,400 Would you come forward for me? 25 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,640 APPLAUSE 26 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,720 Can I ask your name? Milly. 27 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,560 Milly? Milly, would you mind just sitting on a step there for me? 28 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,880 And what we're going to do is we're going to show the principles 29 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,880 of Locard's Exchange. 30 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,200 Now, if you come down and stand here for me, 31 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,400 when you step into the paint... Mind you don't slip. 32 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,640 Good. All right? Yeah, and the other foot. 33 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:38,080 Now something's changed because there's something 34 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,640 on the bottom of your shoes. 35 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,480 And when you walk down that piece of paper to the towel at the end, 36 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,400 let's see what happens. 37 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,760 There's no great mystery there, is there? 38 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,240 We knew that would happen. 39 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:55,160 So the exchange is that every time that that sole of that shoe 40 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,280 touched on the paper, something was exchanged. 41 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,520 And that's easy when there's evidence. 42 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Thank you, Milly, very much indeed. Thanks to Milly. 43 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,440 APPLAUSE 44 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,000 But that's easy when we can see something. 45 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,000 But what if the evidence we've got isn't easily seen? 46 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,880 So if we pop the lights down for a moment... 47 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:19,400 May I? 48 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,160 OK. 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,840 So what you have is a special torch, and we're looking for some evidence 50 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,040 that might be around you somewhere that you just can't see. 51 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,600 And if we use the torch, that may help us. 52 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,200 Can you see what we've got? 53 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,840 We've got a footprint and a Christmas message at the end. 54 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,320 Of course we have, haven't we? 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,040 And that's the very fact that sometimes we can't always see 56 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,760 the piece of evidence until we do something with it. 57 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,880 And that's the key to unlocking this world of forensic science. 58 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,320 If we change the way we look at it and we adopt a more forensic lens, 59 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,000 then we can reveal previously unseen details. 60 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,480 And if we've got a crime, then both the victim and the potential 61 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,960 perpetrator, they may well leave trace amounts of evidence 62 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,640 behind as well. What sort of things get left at a crime scene? 63 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,520 AUDIENCE SHOUTS SUGGESTIONS 64 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,360 Fingerprints. DNA. 65 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,320 Hair. All sorts of things. 66 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,320 And we're going to have to find them, 67 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,120 and we call them trace evidence. 68 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,480 So over the course of this lecture, we're going to recover as much 69 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:28,520 from this crime scene as we possibly can 70 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,080 to try and determine what may have happened. 71 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,400 Now, I'm a forensic anthropologist, and my job is normally working 72 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,880 with human remains. 73 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,480 We haven't found any of those...yet. 74 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:42,480 But I'd only be one member of the science team. 75 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,200 There'd be a whole lot of other ologists around, 76 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,160 people who might be studying different types of trace evidence. 77 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,120 But the most important person in the team is the person who leads it. 78 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,640 And the lead police investigator is known as 79 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,600 the senior investigating officer, or the SIO. 80 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:05,360 So I now ask you please to welcome an extremely experienced SIO 81 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,520 from the Major Crime Unit at Hertfordshire Police. 82 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,360 And he is Detective Chief Inspector Sam Khanna. 83 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,600 APPLAUSE 84 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:21,640 And he really is a police officer. Thank you, Sam. 85 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,840 Really grateful to you for joining us because I know 86 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,840 you're very busy at the moment, so thank you. 87 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:30,760 Can you describe to us perhaps what it is that you do in your role? 88 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:32,240 Absolutely. 89 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,560 So I'm accountable for every part of the investigation, which includes 90 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,200 being the lead investigator and also the manager. 91 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,880 And a key role for the manager, part of it, is the welfare 92 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,920 of my team, because as you can appreciate, 93 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,080 we deal with some really challenging investigations. 94 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,120 So we've set up a crime scene here. 95 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,760 I'm sure it's not the most challenging crime scene you've ever 96 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,440 had in your career, but it's going to be a memorable one. 97 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,040 How do we start? 98 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,600 Well, before I attend the crime scene, I will have received 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,960 a briefing and some basic enquiries would have been completed. 100 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:02,120 So we're dealing with a missing person here today. 101 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:06,800 So friends, associates, work colleagues, when have they last seen 102 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,120 the missing person, some CCTV enquiries. 103 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,080 But most importantly, we need to obtain a photograph 104 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,760 of this missing person, which I happen to have. 105 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,480 We've got an evidence board over here. 106 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,440 I'm going to just place the photograph over here 107 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,480 along with other bits throughout the course of the lecture. 108 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,560 And when you've got a missing person, 109 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,760 which we also call a misper, time is clearly critical. 110 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,360 How do you strategise? How do you start? 111 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:34,080 So student officers when they're trained will be taught 112 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,200 about the building blocks, as we call them. 113 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,240 So the number-one priority is preservation of life. 114 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,680 So if they attend a crime scene and there's clearly someone in need 115 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,440 of urgent medical attention, that's their priority. 116 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:47,920 In this scenario, we don't have an obvious casualty. 117 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,760 So then it moves down to step two, 118 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,200 which is the preservation of the crime scene. 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,200 So before anything is touched, photographs will be taken. 120 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,560 And before we started this evening, we asked somebody 121 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:00,840 if they'd be prepared to be our forensic photographer. 122 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:04,040 So would you come forward as our forensic photographer, please? 123 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,360 And your name is? Milly. 124 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,200 Milly, I'm going to ask you to go away and get yourself all kitted 125 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,760 out, because Milly is going to be with us for the rest 126 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:15,280 of the evening. 127 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,120 She's going to be in her crime scene suit and she's going to be taking 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,800 photographs, because those photographs are really important. 129 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,840 They're a record of anything that happens. 130 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,240 And we always take thousands of photographs at a crime scene, 131 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,880 but there's always one, which is the one we didn't take, 132 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,840 that you as an SIO always want. 133 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:33,360 It's inevitable, isn't it? 134 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,600 So the first officer who came onto the scene 135 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,680 reported that there were traces of blood in the kitchen units. 136 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,520 Could you identify where those might be? Yeah, absolutely. 137 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,480 Well, I'm looking down the side of the cupboard here, and there's 138 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,400 certainly a red substance, which I'll be extremely interested in. 139 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,240 Common sense would say it's blood, but we need to confirm that fact. 140 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,640 And I can just confirm around the room, don't worry about it, 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,400 it's not really blood. We've put it there, 142 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,560 but it's something very nice and red, so please don't worry about it. 143 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,200 Now, once you've got blood, does that change the priority 144 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:04,640 of your case? Well, absolutely. 145 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,600 I mean, it could be that this has been placed here 146 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,640 by accidental means. But certainly I'm extremely interested in this. 147 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,640 It looks like a significant amount of blood. 148 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,240 We've got utensils tipped over here. 149 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,320 Might be nothing, might be signs of a disturbance. 150 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,440 And actually just spotting down here on the washing machine, 151 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,160 it looks like a fingerprint in some sort of red substance. 152 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,320 Could be blood. So has there been a clear-up? 153 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,040 I would certainly be interested 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:30,960 in exploring around the washing machine. 155 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:33,680 Is our photographer ready? Excellent. 156 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:35,120 Here she comes. Milly. 157 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,920 APPLAUSE 158 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,720 Thank you for agreeing to do this. 159 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,880 You're going to be our photographer all evening. 160 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,080 So I'm going to call you, I'll want you to take a photograph 161 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,760 of something, and I'll want you to hand that photograph to our SIO. 162 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,920 We'll call him sir. So, are you ready to go? Yeah. 163 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,640 Are you sure? Yeah. What are you missing? Camera. Absolutely. 164 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,120 Can we have a camera, please? 165 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,280 You can't be a photographer without a camera. 166 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,640 So this is what's going to happen every single time. 167 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,120 Photographer! 168 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,320 OK. Could I have a photograph down this side of the cupboard, please? 169 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,080 Oh, there we go. It's a flash. So... 170 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,120 Ooh! There you go. 171 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,720 And, sir. Thank you very much. 172 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,400 And could I please also have a photograph of the mark 173 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,080 on the washing machine? 174 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,400 That's it. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, indeed. 175 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,640 That's the photographs we need for the moment. 176 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,840 So what would we do next? 177 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,360 So we've got the mark on the washing machine here. 178 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,080 So I'll be extremely keen to see what's inside that washing machine. 179 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,160 So potentially... So with your permission, sir, 180 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,320 can I open the washing machine? Please go ahead. 181 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,040 Thank you very much. Not touching that. 182 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:51,520 And inside the washing machine, it looks as if there is a tea towel, 183 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,840 and I pop that in an evidence bag. 184 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,160 So we're going to want to see whether we can get any form 185 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,600 of evidence out of the tea towel. OK. 186 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:03,080 Thank you very much indeed for that at the moment. 187 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,720 What I'm going to ask you to do is, 188 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,560 I'm going to ask you to welcome Isla. 189 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:11,200 And Isla is from the RI's demo team, and she's going to show us 190 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,880 what we're going to do in terms of identifying blood. 191 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,600 Isla, thank you very much indeed. 192 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,720 So one way we can search for blood is to use a chemical called luminol, 193 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,600 which is what I have in this flask here. 194 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,720 And forensic teams might spray luminol on a surface 195 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:33,400 when they're looking for blood. 196 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,560 There is a reaction between the iron in the haemoglobin, which is in our 197 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:39,840 blood, and that reacts with the luminol 198 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,720 and it produces a bluish glow. 199 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:43,480 So that's what we're going to look out for. 200 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,320 We're looking for a blue glow... We are. 201 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:48,360 ..when this chemical goes into that, that's simulating blood. 202 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,560 That's right. I think it requires a Royal Institution countdown, 203 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:54,400 don't you? Let's get a little bit of noise in the room. 204 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,480 So, on three... 205 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,640 AUDIENCE: Two, one. 206 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,720 Any time that luminol is used, 207 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,720 we are looking for that blue response. 208 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:08,360 That's right. OK. 209 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,320 Can we now look at the tea towel? 210 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,200 I've placed it in the evidence bag under here. 211 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,400 So here's our tea towel from inside the washing machine. 212 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:22,080 And you're going to spray this with luminol? Yes. 213 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:26,600 Now, I know you've seen CSI something or another, 214 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,240 or any of these television programmes where things come out 215 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,200 as bright blue that you could see them from Space. 216 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,240 The reality of science is different to television. 217 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,880 So we will have to look very, very carefully for the blue glow. 218 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,760 So if we can bring the lights down again. 219 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,600 It will only happen, really transient effect. 220 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,800 And we need to be prepared to be able to see that. OK. 221 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,960 Whenever you're ready, Isla. OK, I'm going to start spraying now. OK. 222 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,640 There you can see just that blue luminescence. 223 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,960 I think the SIO would agree that we need to send this tea towel 224 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,320 for a bit more interrogation. Thank you. 225 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,520 And with the greatest of respect to Isla, 226 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,000 doesn't that seem like a very slow process? 227 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,680 And technology has moved on and continuously moves on. 228 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:18,120 And that's the important thing about forensic science is, 229 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,040 it doesn't stay static and we have new techniques 230 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,160 being developed all the time that allow us to look for evidence 231 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,720 in different ways. 232 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,920 So can I ask you please to welcome Dan Skros, please? 233 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,120 APPLAUSE 234 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,240 Dan very kindly let me play with his camera. Thank you. 235 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,680 And I know it's an extremely expensive camera. 236 00:12:41,680 --> 00:12:45,360 So, Dan, tell us what you do and what this piece of apparatus is 237 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,400 all about. Yeah, absolutely. 238 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,320 So I am a product specialist for a forensic science technology company. 239 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,160 And the piece of kit I have with me here today is a 240 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,320 multispectral evidence search kit. 241 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:59,600 So what this includes is a whole array of LEDs and integrated filters 242 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,000 and a high sensitivity digital camera. 243 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,680 It looks like a bit like a daisy from the outside. Yeah, absolutely. 244 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,280 And we're going to ask you to have a look at our kitchen 245 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,120 to see if you can see something. Yeah. So what I'm going to do, 246 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,680 I'm going to connect the device 247 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:14,240 just so you can see what the camera is seeing. 248 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,400 So what I can tell you is that the fingermarks on this counter 249 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,120 have been powdered with a fluorescent powder. 250 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,960 So is that the yellow marks that we're seeing? Yes, absolutely. 251 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,680 From here I can see them really clearly. 252 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,000 The fingerprint powder is absorbing the light, 253 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,880 so emitting a fluorescence. OK. 254 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,400 And anywhere else that we can see this? Yes, we can look everywhere. 255 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,680 Yeah. So these have already been dusted, haven't they? 256 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,040 And that's why we can see them. 257 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,520 So our scene of crime has been in and dusted them over. 258 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,880 You come in with a camera and now we can see them. Absolutely. Yeah. 259 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:45,920 So welcome to the magic. 260 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:49,960 And it is magic of the Royal Institution, because our kitchen 261 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:51,320 is going to disappear 262 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,280 and I'm going to introduce you to our sitting room. 263 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,680 And our sitting room is a wonderful set of patio doors 264 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,800 and a rather striking pair of curtains, if I may say so. 265 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,520 So, we're in our sitting room now and we're looking at a 266 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:11,080 set of curtains, but I can't see anything in here that would cause me 267 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,960 any concern whatsoever. 268 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,120 But look what happens when I switch on to our infrared light source. 269 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,800 Suddenly we can see some staining there that we simply 270 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,240 couldn't have seen before. 271 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,400 So there, just at the end of my fingers, can't you? 272 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320 There's a sort of streak there. And you can see other patches. 273 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:27,680 So what's this doing? 274 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:31,160 What's happening is the background, or the substrate, 275 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,440 is reflecting the infrared light, so appearing lighter. 276 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,040 And the stain is absorbing all this infrared light, 277 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,880 so appearing darker. It's only picking blood up? 278 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,840 In this instance, yeah. In this instance, it would pick up blood. 279 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,200 I suspect, I don't know about you, but if we've got blood 280 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,240 on a curtain, don't we need to open the curtains? 281 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,200 AUDIENCE: Three, two, one. 282 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,280 And now we can see that there is something for us to look at. 283 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:56,680 Photographer! 284 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,200 That's a good photographer. So, Dan, thank you very much indeed. 285 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,360 Thank you for showing what your camera can do. Thank you. 286 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,320 That's very much appreciated. 287 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,000 APPLAUSE 288 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,680 There's a huge amount that we can learn from the way that blood 289 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,200 spatters - and it's not splattering it's spattering, at a crime scene. 290 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,360 And to see how the spatter analysis can be applied to a crime scene, 291 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:25,760 I need to have my two messy volunteers, please. 292 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,280 APPLAUSE 293 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,440 So we have Tristan and we have Dennis. OK. 294 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,480 Now, one of you is going to get seriously messy. 295 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,800 Who wants to go messy? You're going to do it? 296 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,960 We're going to send you off out through that door over there. 297 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,440 You're not going to get quite as messy. 298 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,760 So what we're going to do is, we're going to ask you to pop on 299 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,400 a pair of incredibly gorgeous wellies. 300 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,800 We're going to try and see what kind of a mess you can make 301 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,440 in blood spatter. 302 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,240 But, of course, it's not going to be blood. 303 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,240 So what we've got over there in the bowl, you'll see there's one 304 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,120 of these cannons that you use in the swimming pool. 305 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,160 It's full of paint. So I want you to come here, 306 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,320 and what we're going to ask you to do, if you take that, 307 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,840 what I want you to do is I want you to create a pattern 308 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,120 that goes up that piece of plastic. 309 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,160 Excellent! 310 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,760 OK, go and pop that one down. 311 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,480 And there it goes, starting to run down. 312 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,760 What I want you to do with this is, I want you to take the paintbrush 313 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:37,520 and I want you to just flick it at that side of the wall. 314 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,040 THUD! 315 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,400 OK. That's not a problem, because that leaves you a mark 316 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,120 on the ground as well. Perfect. 317 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,920 Very, very different. Thank you. Pop that back. 318 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,080 Very different pattern on that side than we have on this side. 319 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,000 Now, this one, this is where it gets slightly messy. 320 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,840 And what I want you to do is, I want you to go up to the puddle 321 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,280 and I want you to stamp in it. OK? 322 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,400 There we go. So you can see that what we've got, 323 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,160 we've got three types of spatter there. 324 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,000 Great. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you for helping us. 325 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,840 APPLAUSE 326 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,320 Now, I know that this feels like it's a bit of a game, 327 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,400 but interpreting these different types of pattern, it's actually 328 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,960 really useful, because forensically what it does is it tells us 329 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,080 what actions are occurring. 330 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:28,120 So, to our SIO, this blood spatter patterning that we've got, 331 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:30,200 what would it tell us? 332 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,160 As you can see, we've got three very different types of patterns here. 333 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,440 Could this long blue one be projected? Yeah. 334 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,000 Could this green one here be impact? 335 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,280 So force coming into contact with wet blood, spraying it apart. 336 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,400 Could this one here be cast-off? 337 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,080 So, could it be a weapon that's then withdrawn? 338 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:53,160 And I know you're not a blood spatter analyst expert. 339 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,360 But if you remember the pattern that we had on the patio doors, 340 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,640 does it look like any one of those more than the others, 341 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,080 do you think? Absolutely. 342 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,160 I think everyone would agree that this pattern here, 343 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,720 the flicking up, the cast of blood, would be the most likely. 344 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,080 So that's the most likely. 345 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:10,640 Now, what we're going to do is 346 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,440 we're going to bring in our other volunteer, please. 347 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,520 So can you welcome Dennis back, please? 348 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,440 APPLAUSE 349 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:21,520 Wonderful. 350 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,240 Come and stand by me. 351 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,200 I just want, I just want you to stand there. 352 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:28,920 Keep your chin down. OK? 353 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,400 You'll be fine. 354 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,120 Can we have the cannon, please? AUDIENCE LAUGHS 355 00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:37,120 So, Dan, from the demo team, would you join us, please? 356 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:39,800 APPLAUSE 357 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,800 I promise it doesn't hurt much. OK. 358 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,520 You ready? On three... 359 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,760 AUDIENCE: Two, one. 360 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,240 LOUD POP Oh! 361 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,880 It's OK. 362 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,560 Now, listen, what it does do for us, if you just come 363 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,840 over here for a moment, it does show us that everywhere 364 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,520 that you were standing is quite clear. 365 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,080 And that's called a void. 366 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:06,040 Because when you were hit by the paint, you created a barrier 367 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,960 between the paint and the wall behind you, 368 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,800 so that we would know that there was something had occurred 369 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:13,400 in that space. 370 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,400 We didn't find it at our crime scene, but it's just an opportunity 371 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,120 to throw some paint at anyone. 372 00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,040 And you have been a tremendous sport for it. 373 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,680 Thank you very much indeed. 374 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,440 APPLAUSE 375 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,480 Now, Sam, we've looked at that blood spatter now. 376 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,280 What is it that you think we need to do next? 377 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,920 The blood spatter has given us some really good clues 378 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,680 about what might have happened here. 379 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,960 We can now start to disturb that evidence by taking some samples. 380 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,480 Can have I some scenes of crime officers, please. 381 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,400 APPLAUSE 382 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,000 And their job is to find the trace evidence so that we can see it 383 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,000 and then we can recover it and we can analyse it. 384 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,200 Would that be right? Absolutely. There would be fingerprints and DNA. 385 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,880 So the two that we're really quite comfortable with in many ways 386 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,800 in terms of a crime scene. Thank you at this moment. 387 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,920 So it's always possible that that DNA that we get back 388 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,120 may give us a hit on something that's called 389 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:08,240 the National DNA Database. 390 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,280 And that DNA database holds the DNA samples of individuals 391 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,480 who have been convicted of crimes. 392 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,240 So on everything we touch on that Locard's Principle, 393 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,400 what we have is we leave a trace behind. 394 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:26,360 And so I need somebody who will also be a volunteer for me. 395 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,520 Right in the middle. Would you come down, please. Thank you very much. 396 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,600 APPLAUSE 397 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,160 And your name is? Isabel. Isabel. 398 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,840 Isabel, what we're going to ask you to do is, on this pane of glass, 399 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,040 and I'm hoping you're a little bit hot and bothered... 400 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,880 A little bit yeah. Good, you'll leave a better sample. 401 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,520 So I want you to leave a solid handprint over in this corner here. 402 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,600 Push your hand on there. Perfect. 403 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,440 Then what I want you to do, and this is going to feel really strange, OK? 404 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,640 I want you to pick this up. 405 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,680 Would you give it a great big kiss right there? 406 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,160 Off you go. 407 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,960 AUDIENCE LAUGHS 408 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,440 You're a great sport. Thank you very much indeed, Isabel. Thank you. 409 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,360 APPLAUSE 410 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,040 Now, we know that we've got prints, or some form of prints, 411 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,560 on this piece of Perspex, and we're going to need somebody 412 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,120 who's going to be able to help us, a fingerprint expert. 413 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,960 So can I please introduce the expert, Claire Lynch, 414 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,000 from West Midlands Police Force, please. 415 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,600 APPLAUSE 416 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,800 What do we need to do to make those prints visible? 417 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,360 We need to put a development medium onto them. OK. 418 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,000 So we will use some sort of powder. 419 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,760 That will be a black powder or aluminium, 420 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,480 and we will try to get that powder to stick to the sweat or the grease. 421 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,920 So what we've done is, we've got some black powder here 422 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:53,920 and Isla, who's from the RI's demo team, is going to help us to see 423 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,880 if we can see these prints by placing some of the powder on it. 424 00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,720 So just the brush into the powder? 425 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,440 So, yeah, we'll just pop the brush into the powder. 426 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,280 Very, very gently just brush over that surface 427 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,480 to try and get those prints to develop. There we go. 428 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:13,280 And I think I can see a nose and I can see a pair of lips. 429 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,600 Now, it's perhaps not that easy to see, but if we pop that piece 430 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,560 of paper up, that might make it a little bit easier for you. 431 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,920 Now, so we've got a bit of nose, we've got a mouth. 432 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,280 Isobel, we'd recognise you anywhere. 433 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,240 Why? Why do we see these prints? 434 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,440 Fingerprints are, when they're deposited, 435 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,040 they're in their latent state, so we can't see them. 436 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:38,120 They're just sweat and some minerals and some oils. 437 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:42,880 So what we need to do is put powders on to get that powder to stick 438 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,000 to that sweat so that we can see the fingerprints, 439 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,280 so that it can be recovered and examined. Excellent. 440 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,760 But of course, we've got prints on the crime scene as well. 441 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,880 So what do we need to look for there? 442 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,560 So our SOCOs have already been out and they fingerprinted certain 443 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:01,240 areas, and they've left a latent print on the glass just here. OK. 444 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,080 We need to lift that so that we can submit that for examination. 445 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,040 I'm OK because I'm wearing gloves 446 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,280 so I'm not going to leave my prints behind. That's correct. OK. 447 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,680 So we take this over to here, and if, Isla, if you could come back. 448 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,360 So let's, first of all, put some paper in so that Isla can see 449 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,160 where she's lifting those prints from. 450 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,680 So, there. Yeah. 451 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,040 OK. So we're going to use a low-tack tape and we're going to lift it, 452 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,120 lift the actual powder off that glass. 453 00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,520 So what you're doing is, you're using the sticky tape to remove 454 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,040 the pattern that's been made by the black powder. 455 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,840 Is that right? Yes, that's right. 456 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,120 So take that off very, very slowly. 457 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,680 And now, what do you do with it now? 458 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,840 We stick it onto a piece of acetate. 459 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,920 So pop it into the centre there. 460 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,560 And then just make sure that that powder then sticks down. 461 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,120 So what you've created is a sandwich. Yeah. 462 00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,680 You've got a sticky layer, you've got an acetate layer 463 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,480 and you've got the print sitting in the middle between them. Yes. 464 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,440 OK. And now back to our murder mystery. 465 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:10,120 So what we have is, there's a knife that's missing, 466 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,280 I don't know if you noticed, from our knife block. 467 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:18,240 And the SOCOs have found a knife and we're a bit suspicious that it might 468 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,880 have fingerprints on it, but we're not going to be able 469 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,680 to lift it with powder. 470 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,040 So if we could bring in Maryiam Ula, 471 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,800 who is from the University of Leicester. Thank you, Claire. 472 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,160 APPLAUSE 473 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,840 Now, when we were looking at our crime scene, 474 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,680 what we found was this knife down at the base of the wine rack. 475 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,880 And there's a suspicion that there might be a fingerprint 476 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,880 on here, but we don't know. OK. 477 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,400 And we've heard that you have an interesting way of maybe 478 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,640 being able to show a fingerprint. So would you take us through that? 479 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,440 Yes. So what I have got here is a solution made of copper, 480 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,000 and the knife blade is made of steel, which contains iron. 481 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,200 So I'm just going to dip it in here. Right. 482 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,240 And we wait. 483 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,120 And how long do we wait for? 484 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,360 A couple of seconds. 485 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:17,120 If it was very warm, I would be taking it out instantly, 486 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,560 but since it's a bit colder today... 487 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,000 So if we can just hold that that way. 488 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,360 What I can see is that the colour of the blade has changed... Mm-hm. 489 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,560 ..and I can also see three on the side, 490 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,840 and if you turn it around to the camera, four on that side, 491 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,080 much lighter patches. And those are fingerprints? Yes. 492 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,680 So what's happened is, the copper in the solution has formed a film 493 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,960 on the surface everywhere except where the fingerprints are. 494 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,680 So we've got a negative image of a fingerprint. 495 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,720 So when we get fingerprints left on metal, and there can be all sorts 496 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,920 of metal, it might be a knife, it might be a gun casing, 497 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,720 it could be anything like that, 498 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,080 this is a way to lift fingerprints off metal? 499 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:02,640 It looks to me as if we have some fingerprints on a knife, 500 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,880 we have fingerprints on a glass. 501 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,640 I'm hoping, she says, looking at our senior investigating officer, 502 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,960 that he's starting to get a little bit happier. Fantastic. 503 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,840 I don't know if he looks that happy to me. 504 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,400 Does he look that happy to you? 505 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,640 I tell you, they're a difficult bunch to work with, 506 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,240 senior investigating officers. 507 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,120 And thank you, Maryiam. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. 508 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,520 APPLAUSE 509 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:28,000 So what I'd like to do now is, I'd like to welcome Claire 510 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,040 to come back and talk to us about fingerprints. 511 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,320 APPLAUSE 512 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:34,840 Claire. Thank you. 513 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,240 We've just managed to recover some fingerprints. 514 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,480 But I wonder if you could talk to us about what it is 515 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,520 that we're looking for in a fingerprint. 516 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,360 OK. So we're going to put some images up on screen. 517 00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:51,120 See if you can spot if you've got that pattern or not. 518 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,640 So our first pattern is a loop. 519 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,000 So we have where...the ridges, these black lines, 520 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,480 they're our ridges 521 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,280 and these go up and over and round. 522 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,120 A little bit like a hair grip going round. 523 00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:09,880 Then we have a whorl-type pattern and it goes round in a circle. 524 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,720 It's a bit like a snail shell. Yes. 525 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,400 Have most people got those patterns? 526 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,480 Yeah? Are those quite common patterns? 527 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,120 They are quite common patterns. 528 00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,720 And then our next main pattern is an arch type pattern. 529 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,480 So this is where the ridges will go 530 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,560 just from one side to the other 531 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,320 with nothing going on in the centre of that pattern. 532 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,280 So with that we use that as our first level detail. 533 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,280 We can then look at our ridge characteristics, and those ridge 534 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,880 characteristics are what make everybody unique. 535 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,160 So we will be looking for our ridge endings, 536 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,600 our lakes, 537 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,840 which is where we have a split in the ridge 538 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,720 and it opens up and then it all joins back together. 539 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,520 We have a bifurcation, 540 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,760 which is where we have two ridges that split 541 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,320 and just go into one. 542 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,280 We have what we call an independent ridge. 543 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,320 That's just where we have a tiny little bit of ridge detail. 544 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,480 And then we have other ones called spurs. 545 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,800 Now, that's where, off that ridge, 546 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,600 we just have one that just pops off just a little bit, 547 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,080 and then that stops. 548 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,920 So they're the ridge characteristics that we will start looking at. 549 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,280 So, do we have databases for fingerprints? 550 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,560 We do. 551 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,600 We have an AFIS database, 552 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,080 which is made up of everybody who's been arrested. 553 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,520 So next thing is, if we've got a fingerprint 554 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:31,480 and you've got a database, 555 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,200 what do we now need to do? 556 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,720 Well, we will search that fingerprint on the database, 557 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,720 and the database won't tell us who that fingerprint belongs to. OK. 558 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,720 But it will bring back a list of candidates and say, 559 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,320 "We think this best matches this 15 people." 560 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,800 And this is where your expertise comes in, 561 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,240 is that you compare one print with another. 562 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:53,960 The computer may sift through them, 563 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,920 but you compare one print with another 564 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,320 and it's your decision, when you go to court, that says, 565 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,640 "I think these prints match"? Yes, that's correct. 566 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,800 So we're going to do a comparison, aren't we? We are. 567 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:09,840 I need to have a volunteer to do the comparison. 568 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,560 Yes, please. Come down. 569 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,600 APPLAUSE 570 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,680 You come and join me. And just tell me your name? Makaya. 571 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,360 Makaya. So we're going to ask you to do a fingerprint comparison. 572 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,080 Now, how many years has it taken you to get to this level 573 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,640 of expertise, Claire? About 17. 574 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,720 OK. You've got five seconds, OK, 575 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,320 to get up to the same level of expertise? 576 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,160 So I'll let you, Claire, take it away. 577 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,920 First of all, if you stand this side for us. 578 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,400 So this is our crime scene mark. 579 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,320 Does that first level detail match 580 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,280 our first level detail on the AFIS set? 581 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,840 Yes. Right. 582 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,760 We're now going to start looking at our ridge characteristics. 583 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,280 So I'll start you off with the first ridge characteristic. 584 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,240 We'll pop it straight in the centre 585 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,480 and we'll go for a ridge ending, OK? 586 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,920 So our first one is, 587 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,960 we'll just put a big old dot straight on there, 588 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,760 on our crime scene, at that ridge ending, 589 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,040 just right in the middle. 590 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,320 And then we'll come over to our AFIS set 591 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,640 and that ridge characteristic there is in the same place. 592 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,040 So we'll mark that one up. 593 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,560 I'm going to hand you the pen. 594 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,720 LAUGHTER No pressure. 595 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:21,560 So, what's the next...? 596 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,800 What's the next ridge characteristic that you think you can see? 597 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,920 So if we pop a dot on there. 598 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,320 Yeah. 599 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,840 So we'll go for our next bifurcation. 600 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:37,360 Just above that. 601 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,960 What was that one? Spur. 602 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,160 Spur. So we're going to mark that spur that's just there. 603 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,480 It's hard, isn't it? It's really hard. 604 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,240 I must admit, I look at patterns like that 605 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,000 and I have real difficulty seeing it. 606 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,280 So well done. 607 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,000 That's a really good set of matches that I think you've got there. 608 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,640 So thank you very much indeed for that. 609 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,320 Very much appreciated. APPLAUSE 610 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,880 Now, I know you've just... 611 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,760 I know you've just started to mark this up 612 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,640 and you'd go on and you'd do a lot more than this. Yes. 613 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,320 But in your expertise, 614 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,640 is there anything interesting about these two prints to you? 615 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,880 The ridge characteristics that we can see 616 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,600 in our crime scene mark... 617 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,160 Which is the one from here. 618 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:27,160 ..matches the ridge characteristics that are on our AFIS set. 619 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,120 So you're saying that this print comes from somebody 620 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,080 who has previously been convicted of a crime 621 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,560 and we already have their fingerprints? Yes. 622 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,600 So we should be able to get a name from that. 623 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,200 Now, this doesn't mean at the end of the day that this person's 624 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:41,720 done anything wrong. No, it doesn't. 625 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,920 All we're saying is they have the same fingerprints. 626 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,120 But isn't it nice that we can get to a point of saying 627 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,880 perhaps we've got somebody to investigate? Yes. 628 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,480 Once we've actually checked all of our ridge characteristics, 629 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,880 we'll make a report of identification 630 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,600 and we'll send that over to our SIO. 631 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,480 And what do we need to do now? 632 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,680 Photographer! Photographer! 633 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,960 You are going to see the happiest SIO on the planet. 634 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:07,240 Lovely. 635 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,320 OK, Claire, thank you so much indeed for everything 636 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,720 that you've told us tonight about fingerprints. 637 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,880 APPLAUSE 638 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,960 When our SOCOs came in to take the prints, 639 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,320 what we did was we found, actually, there were a number of individuals 640 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,240 who were involved in leaving their prints behind. 641 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,800 And what we're going to try and do now is to gain a bit of extra 642 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,200 information about the prints that we've found 643 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,600 and to build a story about what might've happened. 644 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Now, when you came in, you were all given a booklet, 645 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,360 and in the back of that booklet, you should have a fingerprint. 646 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,040 Can you take out your fingerprint? 647 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,320 What we've got here is a map of our property. 648 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,800 We know that we have a kitchen because we're standing in it. 649 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,800 And if you remember, we had those wonderful set of patio doors. 650 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,840 So we know that we have a sitting room. 651 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,320 Now, you don't all have the same fingerprint. 652 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:04,720 So, what do we have? 653 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,000 We have loops, we have whorls. 654 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,960 And what else do we have? Arches! 655 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,560 Thank you. So loops and whorls and arches. 656 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,000 That's the most important thing for you to look at. 657 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,160 So, when I bring up our first print, I want you to look at this print 658 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,480 in terms of loops and whorls and arches. 659 00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,920 And if you think that is your fingerprint 660 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,720 that you're holding on the card, I need you to put your hand up. 661 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,040 And what I'm going to do is, I'm going to come to someone 662 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:37,960 and I'm going to ask you what's written 663 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,480 at the bottom of your card. 664 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,400 OK? So, what's written at the bottom of your card? 665 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,560 Living room coin. 666 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,160 Keep your hand up, everyone else, 667 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:53,920 except unless your card also says living room coin. 668 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,040 So living room coin goes down, OK? 669 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,960 So we've got one. 670 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,480 Tell me what's written on your card. 671 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,320 Kitchen toaster. 672 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,760 If you've got kitchen toaster, your hand goes down. 673 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,440 Kitchen? Flour jar. 674 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,000 Flour jar. OK, kitchen flour jar. 675 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,600 If you've got kitchen flour jar, your hand goes down. 676 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,120 OK, right up at the back in the red jumper? 677 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,520 Kitchen bin. Kitchen bin. 678 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,280 So if you've got kitchen bin, your hands go down. 679 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,320 We've still got a lot to go. 680 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,640 What do you have? Bedroom wardrobe door. 681 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,160 Bedroom wardrobe door. 682 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,760 If that's yours, put your hand down. 683 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,280 And we'll maybe take one more. 684 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,640 Living room light switch. 685 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,280 So let's just stop there with that particular print. 686 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,760 And I know we've got it in lots of other places. 687 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,440 What about the second print? 688 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:55,240 So if you have that print in terms of loops and whorls and arches, 689 00:34:55,240 --> 00:34:58,280 I need you to put your hand up. 690 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,920 Oh, nowhere near so many! 691 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:03,960 Where does yours say? 692 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,720 Kitchen drawer handle. Kitchen drawer handle for yellow. 693 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,280 OK, that's interesting. 694 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,960 Kitchen inside door handle. 695 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,200 OK. 696 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,800 And in yellow? 697 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,840 Kitchen tap. Kitchen tap. 698 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,200 What else do we have? 699 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,800 Kitchen knife. Ah! My alarm's just gone off. 700 00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,880 The kitchen knife is on that one. 701 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,280 OK, if we put our hands down, 702 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,240 what we've got is we've got two interesting set of patterns. 703 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:36,880 SIO? 704 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,520 Well, this is extremely interesting, 705 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,520 but I think maybe I should ask the audience. 706 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,120 Yes, over there. What do you think about the different colours? 707 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,800 Any differences between the blues and the yellows? 708 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,800 The yellow are mainly in the kitchen, 709 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,280 and that's probably the murderer. 710 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,320 And the blue are throughout the house, 711 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,120 so they probably live there. 712 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,880 Fantastic. I might have to offer you a job, I think. 713 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,120 Absolutely. I agree. 714 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,560 Because the blue fingerprints are all recovered 715 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,480 from general household areas, 716 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,320 but the yellow ones are really interesting. 717 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,520 As you say, they're all centred around the kitchen, 718 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,400 and, most importantly, that knife. 719 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,600 So I'm extremely interested in those prints. Yeah. 720 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,000 Good. That shows that you've been able to look at a pattern 721 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,280 of a fingerprint. 722 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,600 You've been able to compare it. 723 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,200 And in that comparison, it's given us a piece 724 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,360 of information and intelligence. 725 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,160 So we're slowly starting to piece together that evidence, 726 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,480 and it's telling us the story of what's happened here, 727 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,880 or MIGHT be telling us the story of what's happened here. 728 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,560 So what would you do, if we want to be able to search for a body, 729 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:36,800 how do we do that? 730 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,280 Well, we've got our eyes. 731 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,680 But there's much more powerful resources we can use. 732 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,000 So I think this point would be a good time to get in a dog. 733 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,480 I think it would be a wonderful time to get in a dog, don't you? 734 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,400 So I'd like you, please, to welcome Ozzie and Paul. 735 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,600 APPLAUSE 736 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,480 Good girl. Paul, thank you so much indeed for taking Ozzie. 737 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,920 Ozzie is an award-winning dog, is she not? 738 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,520 She has been decorated, yes. Yeah. 739 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960 And tell me, what would be the right term? 740 00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,040 Ozzie's referred to as a victim recovery dog. 741 00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:14,800 She's trained in relation to detect bodies and blood, 742 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,320 or if we're concerned for somebody who may be missing. 743 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,640 OK, so what are we going to do with Ozzie? 744 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,840 She looks as if she's ready to go. She's raring to go. 745 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,840 She is, isn't she? She's totally unfazed. 746 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,440 OK, so, first off, we would do on the floor. 747 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,880 So Ozzie, Ozzie, Ozzie. Look, look. 748 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,680 So I'm using my pointer... PAUL CLICKS 749 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,840 ..just to try and keep her where I want her to go. 750 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,320 She's really working, isn't she? That nose going. 751 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,160 The nose will go constantly. Mind you, the tail's going, too! 752 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,040 Now, if she was to find the substance 753 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,360 that we're looking for - 754 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,520 in this case, it would be blood - she would freeze. 755 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,000 And that would be her indication. 756 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,920 So what I would typically do is now deploy her off lead, as you can see. 757 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,600 And I would be looking at any voids or open areas or cavities. 758 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,280 So if there was a scent, she would react to it. 759 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,920 Oz. You never know, there might be something 760 00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:59,280 underneath these voids. 761 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,320 What's this? 762 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,240 Ooh, a little bit of interest. 763 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:04,680 Ozzie, Ozzie! What's this? 764 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:08,040 Good girl! Oz! 765 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,960 We're going to go and have a look down here. 766 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:12,600 Here we go. Good girl. 767 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,480 Oh, and off out. The camera's going to follow Oz as we go out. 768 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,760 And she's off. 769 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,120 She's off. 770 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:20,840 Right, we've got an indication here. 771 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:25,000 Oh! So she really has frozen! OK, I'm going to clip her on. 772 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,800 It looks to me as if Ozzie's found something. 773 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,360 I'm not sure that's what our SIO was expecting. Good girl. 774 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,840 But Paul, can you bring out what it is that you've found? 775 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,400 Yeah, unfortunately, on this job... Yeah? 776 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,000 ..looks like a red herring. 777 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,920 LAUGHTER AND GROANING 778 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,320 I'm sorry about that. Oh, that's awful! 779 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,360 You are so clever! I'm sorry about that. 780 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,320 You are so clever. Good girl. 781 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,520 I mean, I think the job that they do is just amazing. 782 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,320 And when you saw her reaction to that then, 783 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,920 you know, her training is just amazing, isn't it? 784 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,720 It's incredible. So I'm sure you want to thank Ozzie as well, 785 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,640 and Paul. Thank you both. 786 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,880 APPLAUSE 787 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,960 Fortunately, we didn't have to photograph the red herring, 788 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,440 so you were OK. Bad pun. So sorry. 789 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,320 Right, now, listen, the other forensic essential tool 790 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,640 that we use to identify is, of course, DNA. 791 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,960 So how do we go about using DNA evidence? 792 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,560 So scenes of crime, especially serious scenes of crime, 793 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,320 we'll be looking to gather various sources of DNA. 794 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,280 There could be some marks on the glass from saliva 795 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,280 where someone has drunk from it. 796 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,280 There's a hairbrush here. 797 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:35,280 Good sources of DNA as well. 798 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,600 Hair gets left on your hairbrush. Absolutely. 799 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,040 In my case, a bit too much hair disappears every time I use it. 800 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,480 And what else might you use? So toothbrushes, for example? 801 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:45,360 Toothbrushes are an excellent source as well. 802 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,360 You've got your cellular material and saliva. 803 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,000 Cos we always see DNA swabs being done in the mouth, don't we? 804 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,440 So a toothbrush is a good thing. 805 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,800 And most people don't share their toothbrushes, do they? 806 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,880 Hopefully not, no. Hopefully the DNA that's on there is theirs. 807 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,880 So moving on from there, 808 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,480 what would be the steps for us to go through now? 809 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,680 So, first of all, I'd like to know whose blood that is. 810 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,520 Does that blood match what would likely to be the occupant here - 811 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,680 the hairbrush, the toothbrush, etc? 812 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:11,920 And once we've done that, 813 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,600 is additional people's DNA present within the scene? 814 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,080 So, in much the same way as we did with the fingerprints, 815 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,360 where we got more than one set of fingerprints, 816 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,200 we can end up in the crime scene with more than one set of DNA? 817 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,560 Absolutely. So we're going to have to ask somebody 818 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,320 who knows something about DNA, I expect. 819 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,320 So to tell us a bit more about forensic DNA evidence, 820 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,320 could you please give a warm welcome to the Professor of Genetics 821 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,480 from the University of Leicester, Professor Turi King. 822 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:44,960 Thank you for joining us. 823 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,920 And as you know, we're going to be talking about DNA. 824 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,280 You have a great history in DNA. 825 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,720 Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background? 826 00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:56,080 So I got asked to be involved in a really amazing case. 827 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:59,440 So I led the genetic analysis which proved that the remains 828 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,880 of a skeleton found under a car park in Leicester 829 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,880 was that of King Richard III. 830 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,960 Oh, that was such an incredible case. 831 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,200 And so I'd like you to talk to us about DNA. 832 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,360 I will do that. The floor is yours. OK. 833 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,880 The DNA in our cells is in nice, long strands 834 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,760 that contains our genetic code. 835 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,240 So this is the double helix. 836 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,400 This is what our DNA looks like. 837 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,640 Now, what I'm going to do is 838 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,320 I'm going to show you some DNA. 839 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,840 And the way I'm going to do that is actually with some spit. 840 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,320 This is my spit. So it's a little bit gross. 841 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,960 So what I need to do is I need to break down the cell membranes 842 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,080 so the DNA can come out of the cells and into the solution. 843 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,960 The way I'm going to do that is by adding some washing-up liquid - 844 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,360 just a few drops. 845 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,360 Just ordinary, standard washing-up liquid? Yeah. 846 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,000 I'm going to give this a swirl, 847 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,480 because what I want to do is I want to get 848 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,320 those cell membranes breaking down 849 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,560 so we can release the DNA into the solution. 850 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,200 Now, the next thing I'm going to do, 851 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,400 we're going to add some salt solutions. 852 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,880 So all this is is just salt dissolved in water. 853 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:10,600 And what the salt does is it helps the DNA strands stick together. 854 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,160 And then what I'm going to do is 855 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:16,760 I'm going to add some really cold alcohol. 856 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,120 And what the alcohol does is 857 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,280 it precipitates the DNA out of the solution 858 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,400 because the DNA can't stay in solution 859 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,560 when there's alcohol. 860 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,880 Where those two layers meet, 861 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,040 you're going to start to see the DNA. 862 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,760 And it looks kind of like clouds. 863 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,680 And those are the little strands of DNA. 864 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,560 There you go. So that's DNA just there. 865 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:42,720 Now, how do we use DNA for a crime scene? 866 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:46,480 So what we do is we produce what's known as a DNA profile. 867 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:48,360 And I've actually got one here. 868 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,520 And it's not the entirety of somebody's DNA, 869 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,120 which is known as a genome. 870 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,920 What we're doing is it's like we're taking little snapshots 871 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,160 of little sections of our DNA 872 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,200 that we know are really variable between individuals. 873 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,680 So if we were to think about, we've got some DNA samples 874 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,680 that are taken from the crime scene, 875 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,000 do we have a DNA database? 876 00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,280 We have a national DNA database. 877 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:13,920 It's not everybody's DNA on it - 878 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,320 it's DNA from people who have committed a crime. 879 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,160 They're the ones who have got their DNA. Nobody in this room, then. 880 00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,640 Absolutely not. No, no. 881 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,280 So when we were looking at fingerprints, we were able to get 882 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,560 a match between some fingerprints in our scene and some fingerprints 883 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,000 on the fingerprint database. Right. 884 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,960 How would we go about doing that similar comparison for DNA? 885 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,160 Well, we need a DNA profile. 886 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,560 Now, you can think of your DNA as being a bit like a book. 887 00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,480 So our DNA is made up of four different 888 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,280 building blocks, A, C, T and G. 889 00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,080 And we are looking at what's known as DNA markers. 890 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,640 So bits of our DNA where we know we differ between individuals, 891 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,680 and you guys are going to be our national DNA database. 892 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,560 That's why you've got these booklets. 893 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,880 So the markers that we look at are like a stutter in the DNA. 894 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,280 They're known as an STR, a short tandem repeat. 895 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,120 So in our little booklets we have got 23 pairs of chromosomes. 896 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,240 One chromosome 1 has come from your mum and one chromosome 1 897 00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:14,400 has come from your dad. 898 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:15,800 And that's what we've got here. 899 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,040 Now, then, let's have a look for one of these stutters. 900 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,400 What I want you to do is, I want you to go down to line seven, 901 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,560 and I want you to look for the word cat, 902 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,600 and I want you to count 903 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,760 how many times it's repeated. 904 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,160 They have to be next to each other all in a row. 905 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,200 If you see a cat on its own - not interested. 906 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,440 I want you to do the same for the right-hand side. 907 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,280 Find cat and count that up. 908 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,520 Cool. 909 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,600 OK, so that's one marker. 910 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,960 You've got two numbers, 911 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,320 and we've done that for six markers 912 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,880 and they're all done in your book. 913 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,000 I want to see if there's a match to the profile that I've got here. 914 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,240 So do any of you have a ten for either of your chromosome 1s? 915 00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:06,200 If you do, give yourselves a little mark... 916 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,360 ..like that. 917 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,960 If you've got a five for either of your chromosome 1s, give 918 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,520 yourself a mark. OK. 919 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,200 Next one, chromosome 2, check your chromosome 2s. 920 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,760 If you've got a ten, 921 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,160 give yourself a mark. 922 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,720 If you've got a nine, 923 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:24,320 give yourself a mark. 924 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:26,320 Guys, ready for chromosome 3? 925 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,520 If you have got a three, 926 00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,560 give yourself a mark. 927 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:32,200 If you've got a six, 928 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,080 give yourself a mark. 929 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,960 So you're either going to have zero, one or two marks. And finally, 930 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,400 chromosome 6, if you've got a seven... 931 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,440 CHATTER ..give yourself a mark. 932 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,520 If you've got an eight, give yourself a mark. 933 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,720 So now what I want you to do is, I want you all to stand up. 934 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:56,280 How many of you has got zero matches? 935 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,360 OK. If you've got zero, sit down. 936 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,840 Sit down, if you've got just one mark. 937 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,400 How many of you have got two? 938 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,080 Sit down if you've got two. 939 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,400 Oh! Wow! 940 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,600 That's going quick. 941 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:08,720 Five? 942 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:09,880 Sit down. 943 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,520 Six? 944 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,200 Whoa. 945 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,760 Who's got sixes? 946 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,080 So if you've got six matches, 947 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,880 that means you could be a parent, 948 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,560 or a child or a sibling of the perpetrator. 949 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,760 How many's got seven, eight, nine, ten, 11? 950 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,680 Anybody got 12? 951 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,240 OK. You've got 12 matches. 952 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:35,720 That means you are a perfect match to our DNA profile. 953 00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:38,480 And so it's not you who's the perpetrator, 954 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,000 but you are holding the sample 955 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,720 that is a perfect DNA match. 956 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:46,560 So it looks like we've got a match to our crime scene 957 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,080 in our DNA database. 958 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,600 And that's really amazing because we've already got a match 959 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,400 as well, haven't we, for our fingerprint? 960 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,520 We have a match for the fingerprints, and it looks 961 00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,040 now we might have a match of the DNA. 962 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,840 And it's not always perfect, is it, in terms of a match? No. 963 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,200 Sometimes samples get degraded. Right. There are issues. 964 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:02,840 We don't always get a perfect match. 965 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,320 And that's why we go to the experts then for their opinion. Exactly. 966 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:11,240 So, what else do...is available to us now in terms of DNA perhaps 967 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:13,560 that we didn't have before? Ah, yes. 968 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,360 So what you can do now is, if you want to use DNA 969 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,720 and you're looking for matches, if you can take DNA from a crime 970 00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:24,040 scene, look at a lot of different markers and upload 971 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,640 it to a genetic genealogy database. 972 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:30,680 And what that does is, it's not just looking for a perfect match. 973 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,920 You can get matches with somebody who's like an aunt or an uncle 974 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,520 or a cousin or a second cousin. 975 00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,720 And that allows you to build family trees and allows law enforcement 976 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,840 to start to hone in on who the perpetrator might be. 977 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,520 Now, it's used in various countries around the world. 978 00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,600 It's not used here in the UK yet. 979 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:55,440 So these days people are using DNA to try and do things like predict 980 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,520 what a criminal would look like. 981 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,200 It's called predictive DNA phenotyping. 982 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,000 Oh! So that's taking the DNA that you had in that little layer, 983 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,040 and it's saying, "If I analyse those little clouds 984 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,160 "in that little layer, I can predict what somebody looks like." 985 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,400 That sounds like science fiction. That's what they're trying to do. 986 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,080 So they're looking at genes that we know code for things 987 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,840 like hair colour, eye colour. 988 00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,280 People are trying to look for genes to do with face shape, 989 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,200 and they're even starting to analyse DNA where they hopefully 990 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,360 are going to be able to say how old somebody was. 991 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:29,920 Thank you very much indeed. 992 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,120 I find it rather scary, I have to say. 993 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,120 But isn't that the wonderful thing about forensic science? 994 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,320 This is just science pushing the next step forward. It is. 995 00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,240 Turi, thank you so much indeed... 996 00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:44,160 You're welcome. ..for taking us through DNA. Thank you. 997 00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,120 And with that kind of science, this is what's making 998 00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:54,120 it more and more difficult for criminals and hopefully making 999 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,840 it easier for investigating officers to get to the person 1000 00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,800 who's really responsible. 1001 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:01,880 So back to our murder mystery. 1002 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,560 Any more evidence that we could perhaps be looking for? 1003 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,560 I've noticed over here there seems to be some muddy boots. 1004 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,160 I'd be really interested in having a look at this. 1005 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,840 Take a photograph of those, of those muddy boots for us, 1006 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,320 if you wouldn't mind. 1007 00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:18,160 There's some soil, potentially, a soil expert might be able to tell us 1008 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,760 where that soil has come from, and some DNA from the boots. 1009 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,200 So I'd be keen to have a look at those. A soil analysis expert. 1010 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,480 Where am I going to find one of those? Well, can I suggest you ask your next guest? 1011 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:29,200 It's a good idea. I wish I'd thought of that. 1012 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,160 Ladies and gentlemen, can I please ask you to welcome 1013 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,360 Professor Lorna Dawson, who is from the James Hutton Institute in Aberdeen. 1014 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,760 APPLAUSE Lorna... 1015 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:44,040 ..the SIO has just said to me that he wants us to use mud to help us 1016 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,880 solve this crime. He's not serious, is he? 1017 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,840 Well, yes, he is serious because matching soils to location 1018 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,640 has a long history. 1019 00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,400 Over 100 years ago in this very city, 1020 00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,800 Sherlock Holmes was able to work out which area of London 1021 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,280 he'd been by the colour and consistency of the mud 1022 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:07,440 on his trousers. 1023 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,440 And that was in a Study In Scarlet. 1024 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,000 But Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character. 1025 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,640 What we're interested in is science and fact, not fiction. 1026 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,880 Yes, but we can put that to the test. 1027 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:23,720 And indeed, we were joined by schools across London who took 1028 00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:29,040 a sample of soil from their playing fields and sent it to us. 1029 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:33,920 And what we did was we analysed it. So anonymized as School A, 1030 00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,400 have we got School A with us tonight? 1031 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,640 Yes. Brilliant. CHEERING 1032 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:42,200 Come on, big cheer for School A. 1033 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,280 And School C? Yeah. 1034 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,760 LOUD CHEERS 1035 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,560 So we looked at all these characteristics which are linked 1036 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,480 to spatial information about those characteristics so we could work out 1037 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,600 where they came from. 1038 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:07,000 What we've got here, though, tonight with us is a Raman spectrometer. 1039 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,080 And what it can do is it can look at the mineral grains 1040 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,960 that are in your samples, in your various samples. 1041 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,600 We will show them here tonight. 1042 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,360 And what we can get is a spectra from those soils. 1043 00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:26,320 And here we have got the blue line which is soil C, 1044 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,000 and the red line which is soil A, 1045 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,080 and you can see there's a distinct difference 1046 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:34,640 in that spectra. 1047 00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:37,520 These tell us about the inorganic silica, 1048 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,240 the mineral grains that are there. 1049 00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:44,200 And this sample from that place was much more organic. 1050 00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,480 And we know about the elements that were there. 1051 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:53,160 And from that information we were able to work out that soil A, 1052 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:54,760 from School A, 1053 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,840 was from Hornsey, North London. 1054 00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,600 Yay! Am I right? 1055 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,840 CHEERING 1056 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,640 And soil C, from School C, 1057 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,360 from the playing fields at your school. 1058 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,800 We think it was Camberwell. 1059 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:15,680 Yeah! 1060 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,120 APPLAUSE AND CHEERING 1061 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,560 So now we are going to go to the whole of London again, 1062 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,440 where we can look at that sample from the boot. 1063 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:31,240 First of all, we are going to look at the areas that are 1064 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:34,480 diggable, so the areas that are not built over. 1065 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,880 And then we look at the texture of the soil. 1066 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,320 And from that texture we know that the texture of the soil 1067 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,680 that was on that boot was a silty clay loam. 1068 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:48,000 So that corresponds with the spatial information 1069 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,680 of that colour of texture. 1070 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:54,680 And then we'll look at the minerals and the elements that are present 1071 00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:55,800 in that soil. 1072 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,040 First of all, we've got cobalt and then we've got the iron. 1073 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,800 We look at the distribution of chromium, and then we add 1074 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:07,680 in the element aluminium, building up these layers of information. 1075 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:12,120 And after we get the combination of information, that is the same 1076 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,360 in that sample from the boot with the particular location, 1077 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,560 it narrows down to this dark purple area there, 1078 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,680 and that... Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. 1079 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:28,640 You have gone from the entirety of the M25 to a little corner 1080 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,600 of somewhere because of soil? 1081 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,040 Mayfair. We're in Mayfair. 1082 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,720 So we can now add in the organic information, the information 1083 00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:40,600 about all the vegetation that's built up in that area. 1084 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,960 And that takes us even closer. 1085 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,960 It takes us down to a specific garden where we have that 1086 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,560 combination of plane, horse chestnut, 1087 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,440 and a combination of shrubs and grasses. 1088 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:56,680 And here we can see it could only have come from this garden. 1089 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,080 ONLY have come from that garden? 1090 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,920 You think you're Sherlock Holmes, don't you? 1091 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,800 I think you're Sherlock Holmes, quite frankly. 1092 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,680 I just think that's amazing. Where is our sample from? 1093 00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,480 Well, I would suggest to go into that garden 1094 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,800 and have a look at it, to a specific area where you've got a plane tree. 1095 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,240 You've got this combination of information 1096 00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:22,240 about that vegetation, 1097 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:23,880 which you get from pollen. 1098 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,800 So the palynology tells us about that mixture, 1099 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,520 horse chestnut, plane, 1100 00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,720 and all these different shrubs that we can actually probably go 1101 00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:34,400 to the corner of that garden. 1102 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,080 Lorna, I don't know. I-I actually, 1103 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,840 I've had my mind physically blown as a result of that. 1104 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,120 I think that is tremendous and I know the work 1105 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:45,400 that you have done, you have helped out in so many live forensic 1106 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:50,720 investigations. Again, taking people to very, very specific spots. 1107 00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:52,640 Please thank Lorna for me. 1108 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:53,640 Thank you. 1109 00:54:56,520 --> 00:55:00,000 So I think we need to review some of the evidence 1110 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,200 that we've got, don't you? 1111 00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:06,120 Because I think we've come a long way in the murder mystery this evening. 1112 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,760 Most definitely. We've got the traditional investigation evidence 1113 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,160 that's been recovered. 1114 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:15,240 So whilst I won't say we're there yet, we've got a good leg up, 1115 00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:16,800 but plenty more to do. 1116 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,400 Brilliant. Well, now I'm afraid our work might be finished, 1117 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,560 but yours is just about to begin. 1118 00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:23,080 Because you've got to go away. 1119 00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:26,400 You've got to look at the evidence. You've got to start to build a case. 1120 00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,640 You've got to find somebody that you want to question. 1121 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:31,520 And it will come to a trial. 1122 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,160 And this is the point where your interpretation 1123 00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,160 of the evidence is so important. 1124 00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:38,840 So I'd like you to thank our senior investigating officer 1125 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:41,440 for this evening, but you've got a lot of work to do, so get 1126 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:42,440 on with it. Thank you. 1127 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:52,200 So...I've just got something coming in. 1128 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,240 Oh, it's a shame that the SIO's just gone, because what we've heard 1129 00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,920 back from a police force is that we have got confirmation 1130 00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:03,600 that the DNA and the fingerprint 1131 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,640 have actually come from the same individual, 1132 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,680 and they've been able to name the individual. 1133 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,520 And what they're going to be able to do is they're going to be able 1134 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:16,240 to send us across a photograph, I believe, of the suspect 1135 00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,280 that we might be looking for. LAUGHTER 1136 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:19,800 Now, I... 1137 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,680 SMASHING AND CLATTERING 1138 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:24,480 LAUGHTER 1139 00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:34,040 I think, I think we have some serious questions to ask 1140 00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:38,040 because what it is saying in my ear that the individual 1141 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:44,000 that they have identified is a seriously scary person who's got 1142 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:50,800 a very dubious past and has in fact been a very naughty boy, quite 1143 00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:54,160 frankly. You're under arrest on suspicion of murder. 1144 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,520 You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence 1145 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,760 if you mention something, erm... 1146 00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,160 He's going very quietly, isn't he, for someone who's so scary? 1147 00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:06,440 LAUGHTER 1148 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,800 Isn't that what forensic science is about? 1149 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,920 APPLAUSE AND CHEERS 1150 00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:19,520 In all seriousness, what we've done tonight is we found some evidence, 1151 00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,640 we've been able to identify the evidence, to extract it, 1152 00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:27,720 to analyse it, and to help an investigative force to start 1153 00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,120 to look at that evidence and piece together what's going to happen. 1154 00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:36,480 The SIO is going to be giving Dan a very, very serious talking to. 1155 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,480 And when we look at the third lecture in the Christmas series, 1156 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:41,920 what we're going to do is we're going to take science 1157 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,520 into the courtroom. 1158 00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:46,960 And that's a scary place for any scientist ever to be, 1159 00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:48,520 is in a courtroom. 1160 00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,760 And it's not only the evidence that will be interrogated 1161 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:56,360 in the courtroom, the science will be interrogated, the scientists 1162 00:57:56,360 --> 00:57:58,800 and their opinion will be interrogated. 1163 00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,200 And only then, with members of the public, 1164 00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,800 will there be a decision made. 1165 00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:07,680 Thank you for playing along with our murder mystery.