MUSIC: Head Over Heels by Tears For Fears
This is not an astronaut. This is a crypto billionaire.
Justin Sun is one of the many tech billionaires
who are now so rich
that they can travel to space for fun.
There are more billionaires now than ever before,
and their wealth is growing fast.
The 12 richest people in the world now own almost
the same total wealth as the bottom half of humanity.
Most of this is driven by tech billionaires,
whose individual fortunes are now beginning
to rival the power of entire governments.
Lib, lib, lib to the First Lady.
Over the past year, I've met with tech billionaires...
Great to meet you. - Nice to see you.
- ..to find out how they plan to reshape our world.
- Governments are stuck.
- Among them, there's a growing movement
that sees the nation state itself
as an outdated operating system in need of an update.
- Silicon Valley regards itself
as like the best in making things happen.
- I've seen how they're using technology
to replace our financial systems...
Do you feel like crypto has finally taken over Wall Street?
..rewrite our political systems...
- In short order, it's become a wave of money.
- ..and create independent states of their own.
- I appreciate your commitment
to building the freest country on the planet.
- Thank you, Mr President.
- Is this the era of the tech billionaire takeover?
And what have they got planned for all of us?
MUSIC: Money by The Flying Lizards
If we are in the era of the tech billionaire takeover,
few people illustrate this more than Justin Sun.
As well as travelling to space,
Justin Sun also bought this banana
for over $6 million...
..and then ate it.
This Chinese crypto entrepreneur loves outlandish stunts.
- $4.6 million for the Glide Foundation's
annual charity auction with lunch for Warren Buffett.
- He's also accused of fraud, market manipulation and creating
the go-to crypto platform for criminals,
drug traffickers
and mafia organisations to store their billions.
Despite the bad press,
Sun is a leading figure in a movement
that believes crypto is on the brink of replacing money,
setting people free from the control
of big banks and tyrannical governments.
But people really started to take notice
of Sun last year when he invested millions
in the Trump family's new crypto business.
In return, Sun not only won a VIP reception
and private dinner with Trump himself,
but a chance to enter the world of the establishment.
MUSIC: Head Over Heels by Tears For Fears
I'm in New York to meet Justin Sun as he takes his biggest step yet
in achieving one of the ultimate
marks of financial legitimacy, launching his company Tron
on the world's most prestigious tech stock exchange,
the Nasdaq.
- # Something happens and I'm head over heels... #
- Hello? Hi. How's it going? Hi.
Hi. Hi.
Hi, Justin. - Hi. - Hi. Good to meet you.
- Good to meet you.
- Forgive me for starting with such a blunt question,
but how much are you personally worth?
If you had to put an estimate on it, how much?
OK, so you're 34 years old.
What does it feel like to have $8.5 billion to your name?
What do you think you personally are most famous for?
Justin Sun's company, Tron, is what's called a blockchain,
a global software network on which
you can buy and sell cryptocurrencies.
Unlike a bank, it isn't run by one single authority.
It's decentralised.
It exists across many computers, all around the world.
This makes it harder to tax and regulate.
Over $20 billion worth
of transactions happen every day on Tron.
That's five trillion a year.
And now he's in business with the Trump family.
You want to replace money, basically, with crypto?
Is that your dream?
- LAUGHTER - Good, good, good.
If Justin has his way, the national currencies we now use,
regulated and taxed by governments, will be replaced
by cryptocurrencies created by people like him.
Getting Tron on the Nasdaq
brings him one step closer to achieving that goal.
How are you feeling? Yeah? You excited?
It's a big moment. - Good to see you.
- So good to see you. - Welcome to Nasdaq.
- Thank you. - It's great to have you here.
- Thank you. - Congratulations on all your success.
- Thank you. - It's wonderful.
- Instead of the years of regulatory scrutiny
most companies face in order to get listed on the Nasdaq,
Sun used his vast crypto wealth to buy a struggling toy company
that was already listed and simply changed its name to Tron.
ANNOUNCER: - Are you ready?!
- THEY CHEER
ALL: - ..two, one...
- THEY CHEER
JUSTIN CHEERS
- To the moon!
- Yeah!
- Justin, how does it feel?
- Great. Feel great. - Do you feel like
crypto has finally taken over Wall Street?
Over half of all illicit
crypto transactions reportedly happened on Tron.
It was allegedly used by Hamas and Hezbollah.
Now it's a publicly traded company.
Tron has now become a publicly listed company despite
all the criminal and legal accusations.
What does that mean for you?
Could you have done any of this without the current administration?
Justin Sun seems to believe the current administration is now
helping enact his dream of replacing money with crypto.
- That's the shot right there. - So this is the exclusive
merch to commemorate the Nasdaq bell being rung.
And I'm told this is a real banana,
but it has to be replaced every two to three days.
So, yeah, I'm probably not going to hang that up on my wall, just
because of the logistical difficulty of having to replace it.
There was a prevailing sense that this represented
the world of crypto kind of challenging the financial elites
and taking over Wall Street.
And there's a kind of revolutionary,
rebellious sentiment there.
But what seemed to occur to no-one in that room was
that they kind of are the financial elite now.
I mean, they are literally the wealthiest
and most powerful people in the world.
But it isn't just banks and money
that crypto billionaires like Justin Sun want to replace.
They believe that laws, voting and government itself can
all become digital transactions on the blockchain.
And Sun is already using his wealth
and power to help build a new country
that puts this theory to the test.
Wow.
And I understand that you were actually elected prime minister of
a small micronation called Liberland using
blockchain elections. Is that right?
So a big part of this whole philosophy is that
these technological innovations are challenging power.
They're challenging a financial elite,
a political elite.
But is there also a risk that the people
behind these technologies become
the elite themselves, and they become the power structure? - Yes.
- Liberland was founded by libertarians,
and libertarians hate taxes, regulations and big government.
Instead of trying to fight
the government in their own countries,
the Liberlanders realised
they could use blockchain technology to just make their own,
replacing pesky politicians and laws with compliant computer code.
This tech libertarian utopia has attracted
the support of around 30 billionaires,
many of them from the world of crypto.
When Liberland's president Vit Jedlicka
found a muddy bit of land in the Danube River,
unclaimed by neighbouring Serbia
nor Croatia, he spotted an opportunity.
Thus, Liberland was born.
But as that island still has no roads
or electricity, for the time being
the founding fathers of Liberland have set up an outpost
called Ark Village just across the river.
So we're all in here, yeah? - We're all in here.
- I guess it takes a while to build
one of these communities into a billionaire-suitable...
..community.
Nice.
Morning.
HE LAUGHS
Free country, isn't it? - Yeah.
- I'm looking for your president. Is he around?
- Yes. I will bring you to the president.
He's upstairs. We're waiting for you for breakfast.
Come in. Welcome... - Thank you. - ..to the Ark.
- Right. Yes.
- Good morning. - Hello, Mr President. Matt.
- Nice meeting you, Matt. How are you doing? - Good, good.
Thanks so much for having me. - Yes, please.
Please join us for breakfast, guys. - Great.
- Yeah, we'll actually show you around
the plots that we bought around this property
where we want to build longevity clinic and spa.
I think longevity tourism in general will be
one of the key businesses, not just cryptocurrencies,
not just AI, which we already have quite a lot.
- How many companies generally are registered?
- I think we've got 200 active companies right now.
- Really? Registered in Liberland? Wow.
And is this your son here? Hello.
Are you a citizen of Liberland yourself?
- Uh... - No. Czechia?
THEY LAUGH
- He's got his passport, of course.
- Oh, nice. A Liberland passport? - Yeah. - Cool.
- We had special deal that they will not intervene
in our conversations and you are still unable...
But I made the deal with you
that you will not intervene in the interview,
and that's the first thing you have to do.
And you cannot help yourself. Right? If you could just leave completely,
I would really appreciate it.
Yes, yes, yes.
- Thank you. - You're welcome.
- This is actually Ark, like, the main base of Liberland
for now in the region.
- Oh, nice. I didn't see any of this because I arrived late in the night.
In most modern democracies, everyone has an equal vote.
But things are different in Liberland,
thanks to a crypto token called Liberland merits.
- The elections are every three months. They're taking place on
blockchain and the person is elected with merits.
So the people that have more merits are able to have more say
in who is going to be in the leadership of the country.
- And can you purchase Liberland merit?
- Yes, yes. - This sort of system does allow people
with more money to have more power, essentially,
and pay less tax.
- You don't pay taxes in Liberland. They are voluntary.
This will no longer be Liberland if we start taking people's money.
Maybe we can actually make a photo in front of the house together.
Nice gathering.
Let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go.
Let's make some 3D scans.
- So will we be able to visit Liberland?
- There's conditions for visiting Liberland from Croatian side.
Because I've got this five-year ban from Croatia.
- And what's that for? - That's for building Liberland.
- The problem with starting a tiny new country is that
you sometimes have to contend with proper countries,
ones with armies and police forces.
Vit and the other Liberlanders have
regularly been apprehended by
the Croatian authorities while trying to visit the island.
- Don't touch myself. Don't touch me! Don't touch me.
- INDISTINCT SHOUTING
At the moment, the only option
for visitors like me is to see the island by boat.
- Today, we're going to embark on a voyage across many borders.
Serbia, Croatia, Liberland.
It fills me with such pride
every time my eyes gaze upon our land.
Here we see Liberty Island.
And it's great to know we have settlers there right now.
They're braving the elements
and putting up with constant checks by the Croatian police.
- Yeah. - But they still maintain a presence there.
And we really have to respect and admire their courage.
It's an inspiration to us all.
On the day the border opened, August 6th, 2023,
I spent eight days in Liberland,
and that was a dream come true.
The moment I stepped over that imaginary line
in the road leading into Liberland, it was just magic.
- Great. - There's our people right there.
- Wow. So these are the permanent settlers of Liberland down there?
Martin's like your whole kind of government right now, really.
- Yes. He is holding the fort.
Hey, Martin, we have to decorate you.
We have two people to decorate today.
Martin, we appreciate your involvement very much.
I will hand it over to you during the Christmas party,
during the constitutional convention,
but it's here for you for the bravery.
- CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
- This is for you and for your... How many years now?
- Three. - ..three years
very good service taking care of this ship.
We appreciate your commitment to building...
..building the freest country on the planet.
- Thank you, Mr President. - Let's have some drinks downstairs.
Let's celebrate that little bit. And...
- Lib, lib, lib. - Lib, lib, lib.
Lib, lib, lib to the First Lady.
- Croatian presents. It has become really good, this VR. Like, really
like, feeling... Streaming from Liberland Wi-Fi.
- Is this what Liberland is going to look like?
Oh, my God.
I see towering, gleaming skyscrapers with floating public parks.
I see waterfalls, I see mountains.
You're going to struggle with that one, I think.
Yeah. I think this is going to be pretty expensive, guys.
- Our prime minister, Justin Sun,
could easily contribute $100 million.
He wouldn't mind because it's like one week of his personal income,
the current... - Right. - ..fees.
- With their new wealthy backers,
Liberland may now actually have the money to start building,
but to become officially recognised, they'll also need political support.
- I see some opportunities for us. There are some people
in the current administration that are friendly towards Liberland.
- Like who in particular? - I would say, um,
Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard.
US ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz -
we've met with him.
- Everything in Liberland is managed through this platform.
- But Liberland's best chance
of getting support from the White House
may be through their new prime minister, Justin Sun,
who's the main investor in the Trump family crypto business.
- Justin Sun, by far, is now the most popular in the system.
- But not all Liberlanders seem enthused with Justin Sun.
Dave, who keeps calling himself the Prince of Liberland,
has told me off camera that he isn't too keen on the guy,
but Vit keeps telling him not to speak to me about it.
- OK. I'm set. - All right. - I'm an architect from Switzerland.
I am following this project since ten years.
I do the, you know, the survey work with the drones.
- And what's in your back pocket? "University of Liberland
"Adventure Centre, founded by Prince David of Lib..."
Are you the Prince of Liberland, then?
- People say I am.
Do you know any other Prince of Liberland?
- No. You're the first one. - Yes, because it's me.
- THEY LAUGH
I've noticed Vit. He gets annoyed at you
when you speak about the prime minister, Justin Sun.
- Not everybody has to agree with
the president, like any other country.
- What was it specifically that he was annoyed with?
- You know, it's a small country.
So if people just say whatever they want to the BBC...
..it gets out there. And... - Is this something
that you're not comfortable talking about?
- No. I mean, I'm comfortable to talk about,
but, you know, money rules the world, like everywhere.
And, yeah, sometimes...
..not all the money is the best money.
- Dave may not think Justin Sun's money is good money,
and therefore disagree with him being prime minister,
but there's not much he can do about it.
Dave has less money than Liberland's billionaire citizens,
which means fewer Liberland merits,
which means his opinion is worth less.
Does this show the perils of replacing democracy
with governance tokens
that can be bought on the blockchain?
Is Liberland really about liberty for everyone,
or just people who are really, really rich?
To find out, I'm speaking with Liberland's interior minister,
who has just invited me for a ride in his brand-new Mercedes.
Why does he love it so much?
OK.
- Yep. - And how does he get them in? - Oh.
- Ivan Pernar started his political career
as a controversial Croatian MP who was notoriously kicked out
of parliament for spreading conspiracy theories.
SHOUTING
Upon leaving, he met Vit, and shortly after
became interior minister of Liberland.
- My job is to ensure your freedom - freedom of choice,
freedom of speech, freedom to say what you believe.
Liberland is a project
which attracts people on ideological level.
Usually people who believe in freedom,
decentralised finances, and so on,
they tend to be from the upper class of society.
- That is a certain new elite, isn't it?
- Yes. For example, this is Philippe Patek watch,
for example. - OK. Congratulations. - Nice rose gold model.
You know?
In England there are high taxes on such luxury items.
This is one of the things
why people would like to join this project.
- But only people who you allow to join the project.
- Yes. If you make zero selection
and you say whoever comes on boat
is welcome, we would end up like UK.
We don't want that.
- So you get to decide who joins... - Who on board.
- ..who comes into the castle, basically.
- Yes, but you have to be picky.
- So it's liberty, but...
- For a selected few.
- ..some people have more liberty than others.
- Yes. - Because it does strike me that one of the main merits
that allows you to have power
and influence within Liberland is money, right?
- Of course, of course, of course. - Right. Of course.
- If you leave a bunch of bums in your country
without anything and who just demand something,
then, on the other hand, somebody's got to pay for that.
- Could taxation as a redistribution of wealth be seen
as a way to give more freedom to people,
to give more liberty to people?
- No, because, um...
There was some story about a wildlife reserve in America.
There are animals there and it's written,
"Don't feed the animals," because if you do,
they will be accustomed to that
and they will lose the ability to feed themselves...
- Right. - ..to find the way. And the same is with people.
- You like liberty, right? That's the whole thing.
- Yes. Economic liberty. - Yes. OK.
Well, the system that you are describing denies more
people economic liberty than
the system that exists in most Western nations today.
- If that is your opinion, you can have it,
although I would disagree.
- Is liberty just for the wealthy? You know,
is that really a just way to run society?
- Look...
..that's a very tricky question.
- It's a very limited amount of liberty to go around.
- No, no, no. Now you've got me in a situation
where I have a hard time to answer.
But I would say correctly,
only people who have economic freedom can indeed be free.
- Literally, the criticisms
that most people have of democracies,
that wealthy people have too much power
and that other people have less political power,
that inequality is actually written into the constitution of Liberland.
It might seem like a group of travellers
with a few tents in a flood plain in the middle of the Danube River,
but the fact that it's tied to 30 billionaires means that
this is actually a future that some of the most
powerful people in the world envision for all of us.
Around the world,
new blockchain nations,
just like Liberland,
promise to eradicate taxes and government regulation.
From Prospera in Honduras,
to Peter Thiel's Seasteading Institute,
what drives these projects is a wall of cash
in the form of billionaire investors and venture capitalists,
emanating almost entirely from one place -
Silicon Valley.
NEWSREADER: - A phone, an iPod, and an internet browser.
- We've all gotten used to the idea that products
from Silicon Valley have changed the world,
but we're still getting used to quite how rich and powerful
the tech billionaires behind those products now are.
- # Money talks
# Money talks... #
- They're no longer just interested in profit,
they also want to rewrite how society is governed.
At some point, this new elite began to see crypto
and blockchain technology as the solution.
- Bitcoin is going to completely transform the economy.
AI is going to take all our jobs.
Stem cells are going to make us live forever.
- Um, that's a lot to contemplate all at one time.
- Tim Draper is a billionaire venture capitalist and libertarian
known for early investments in companies like Tesla,
SpaceX, and Skype
and for being really, really into Bitcoin.
- People have asked me, "Well, when are you going to sell your Bitcoin?"
And I say, "Into what?!"
- He's also an investor in Prospera
and is creating his own digital country,
Draper Nation, with Bitcoin as the national currency.
- Welcome to... - ALL: - Draper Nation...
- ..the first-ever completely digital country.
Instead of cash, you have digital money.
- But his main focus is Draper University.
Half university, half Dragons' Den,
Draper U trains aspiring tech founders,
while having them compete for Draper's investment.
THEY SHOUT AND CHEER
Tech founders are taught here that they are real-life superheroes
and have the power to reshape society according to their genius.
I've been invited to the ceremony
where soon-to-be graduates ascend to that superhero status.
It might be hard, especially for the English brain,
to wrap their head around what's going on here.
But this isn't just a kind of silly superhero graduation ceremony.
Seven of these people
will be getting $100,000 from Tim Draper's venture capital fund.
CHANTING: - Jump! Jump! Jump!
- THEY CHEER
Justin Sun himself was once a student of Draper University.
I want to find out what it is about this place
that may have led him to think
he was a superhero with the power to reshape finance and politics.
Matt. Good to meet you. - Arisa. Nice to meet you.
- Thanks for having us. - Yeah.
Thank you for coming. - Wow! OK, so the first thing I'm noticing is,
is that a Tesla? - Yeah.
Elon Musk, a long time ago, that he gifted us.
And then...
But Tim Draper didn't want to use as a car.
- Wait, sorry. Elon Musk gave you this Tesla
and you decided to cut it up and use it...
- Yeah. - ..as a reception desk? - Yeah. - Oh, my God!
- So this is called Hero City. And every one of the founders,
we consider that everyone is a superhero.
They're creating the new things.
Everyone is like really making something impossible possible.
- So, that's Tim over there.
And what's that thing? - I am Tim Draper.
This may look and sound like me,
but this is actually a holographic AI persona. - Wow. Impressive.
- He wears the Bitcoin tie and Bitcoin socks.
- Yeah, he loves the Bitcoin tie and socks, doesn't he? Yeah.
- Yeah. So from upstairs every
entire rooms will be the founders' room.
And these are the 101 stuff that they want to do before they die.
- "Fly first class." "Snowboard down a real mountain."
It's quite sweet. "Own a cow till it dies naturally."
We've all been there. We've all had that desire.
How is Tim Draper trying to mould
the coming generation of tech elites?
Time to meet my next billionaire. Hello.
- Hi. How are you? - Good. - Hi.
Tim Draper. Nice to see you. - Thanks very much for having us.
- Great. Happy to have you here. - Around ten years ago,
the view of Silicon Valley and of the tech industry was
so positive and exciting.
Recently, it's...
That perception for some people has almost, like, flipped,
and they see Silicon Valley as almost evil,
like it has some kind of sinister intent.
- You know, I think what happens is entrepreneurs,
they go out to transform the world.
And as they struggle, people are sort of cheering them on.
But when they become successful, there's this weird backlash.
All of a sudden, it's like, "Wait, why is that?
"Why does Jeff Bezos have $300 billion and I don't?"
Well, look what he's done for you! I thank him every day.
I, if I need a toothbrush,
I can get it in four hours just by...
And it's off. - Right. - And this attitude, that is the Silicon Valley
of, let's just do it better than the guy before,
that attitude is important. - I think we're now at a stage
where those ideas are expanding into,
you know, ideas like government
and how we run our society as a whole.
Maybe that's part of the perception
that now they're kind of coming for politics,
you know, kind of thing.
- Government is providing bad service at a high cost.
Now we do have new technology. We have...we have Bitcoin,
we have the blockchain, we have smart contracts,
and now we have these decentralised, autonomous organisations...
- Could that replace government and banking?
- Absolutely. Well, I mean, that's what's happening. - Right.
- It's just a matter of time.
Anyway, so, I created Draper University of Heroes.
Our thinking was, the world needs more heroes.
Let's make heroes. In a very weird way,
my friend said, "Hey, you're starting a school.
"You've got to have a pledge." And it came to me sort of on a flow.
It took me three and a half minutes. Wow.
- By the time they graduate,
Draper U students are expected to memorise this pledge.
- I will promote freedom at all costs.
- STUDENTS: - I will promote freedom at all costs.
- On the final day of the ceremony,
they recite it before pitching
their business ideas to a panel of investors.
- I will do everything in my power to drive, build
and pursue progress and change.
- I will try my best to make reparations for my digressions.
- WHISPERING: It's a tad culty, that last bit.
- I will explore the world with gusto and enthusiasm!
- OK, here we go. One, two...
- This isn't like a normal day out for a venture capitalist.
- No. - No.
- One, two, three, four, five, six...
- Draper U isn't just about building entrepreneurs.
It's also about making sure that the next generation of tech elites
share his libertarian world-view.
Jeff Frazee is one of the venture capitalists invited
to consider investment in Draper U's outgoing class.
He's also the founder and CEO of Young Americans For Liberty,
whose chapters are known for inviting controversial figures,
including the white nationalist Nick Fuentes,
to speak at university campuses.
What is Young Americans For Liberty
and what's its connection to Draper University?
- Yeah, so I'm founder and CEO of Young Americans For Liberty.
We are actively on 400 college campuses
spreading the word of liberty, getting young people involved
to take action and influence political process.
Tim has been a big supporter of ours for a number of years
and his beliefs align with our beliefs.
- Technology is now getting to the point where some people are saying
it could actually have the functionality
to replace government almost entirely.
Is that something that you think we will see happen?
- Yes. I believe technology is the key to success
and we've got to be able to allow for entrepreneurs
and innovators to be able to have the freedom to explore
and to find the solution to big ideas.
Governance is not a solution. Governance is in the way.
And this is where I think society is evolving to -
people being able to have the choice to be able to move
and to choose what rule of law they want to live under.
And the more we can move towards a more decentralised form
of governance, I think society will flourish.
- How would taxing work?
- Well, I'd hope it'd be minimal to none.
Taxation, all it is is... Taxation is theft.
It's being able to take money from you at the barrel of a gun.
- Isn't this just an excuse to kind of say,
"I want to keep my wealth and get richer"?
- Absolutely. Fantastic. The only way you get richer
in a free society is you're providing value to others.
And so I think we should be applauding capitalists.
We should be applauding people who are wealthy.
- Draper sees Silicon Valley's tech entrepreneurs
as superheroes, whose technological innovations
could save society from our own government.
But there's one man just across the valley
who takes this belief to a much more extreme conclusion.
He says that tech CEOs could be our kings.
REPORTER: - Operating in the shadows of the internet,
needless to say, is a man called Curtis Yarvin.
- Curtis Yarvin, a former tech founder himself,
has become the most prominent critic of democracy in the Western world.
- You're going to basically shut down this fake executive branch
that we have and create a new government.
- Yarvin is accumulating powerful supporters...
- Curtis, it's fantastic to have you on the show. - Great pleasure.
- ..like the US billionaire Peter Thiel
and figures in the current Trump administration,
including the Vice President, JD Vance.
- There's this guy, Curtis Yarvin,
who's written about some of these things.
- Yarvin believes that blockchain technology
can be used to replace democratic governments
with a corporate board ruled over by a CEO monarch,
a tech king, if you will.
He has agreed to meet me here in the heartland
of America's liberal intelligentsia, Berkeley...
Matt, good to meet you. - Pleasure to meet you.
- ..to make the case for techno-monarchy.
- Sort of the conflict of the period is essentially... - Right.
- ..the people have always been against mass migration.
Mass migration happens. Therefore, there is a lack of power there.
- Uh-huh. - So, obviously, it's in these institutional
meritocratic structures with these ancient brand names, right?
Absolutely. So, actually, the amount
that he has is not actually very high.
It's actually very low. - OK.
And just to sum up,
because unfortunately this is a documentary,
where we have limited time in the film to cover this... - Absolutely.
- ..in the simplest possible terms,
how would you define your ideal political system?
- I would define it as an accountable monarchy.
I think that people can very easily see that
there's a very simple analogy between,
um, a company and a state.
When we look at any functional structure
that involves more than a few people,
we always see that it is organised as a monarchy.
We always see a pyramid-shaped org chart.
A company has a CEO, an army has a general,
a film has a director.
This is just nothing other than monarchism.
So the patchwork system is an idea that's orthogonal to that.
It's the idea that the greatest human flourishing
has been seen historically
in periods with large numbers of small states.
- So what we're talking about here is a collection
of kind of city states run by CEO monarch-type figures.
But fundamentally, you're talking about a monarchy, right?
- Fundamentally, I'm talking about a monarchy. - You're talking about
a monarchy. If we were alive during the time of the Tudors,
if a noble did something bad to us, we would have no...
- Oh, my gosh. - No way to hold them to account. - That's a completely...
- And we wouldn't be nobles.
- That's a completely... Well, you know, two things.
One is that, actually, we would be,
because the thing is, one of the things you see historically is...
- We'd be peasants. If they tried to do anything to us,
we would have no courts or legal system. - So if you're imagining...
If you're... First of all, I don't know where...
- Statistically we would be peasants. - I don't... You have this caricature
of, like, have you ever... Like, how much do you know
about the world before, like, 1900? - OK.
Let's start with the world after 1900.
So could blockchain technology be used
to implement the kind of monarchy CEO system?
- Well, it could be used in two ways. It can be used to implement
a corporation-like structure on the blockchain.
So a monarchy that's essentially accountable
to something like a board of directors.
Now, when you look at a corporation,
in a way, it's a kind of virtual state.
It's like a state at a lower level. It pretends to be a state.
But Microsoft can't really attack Oracle
by sending, you know, troops of thugs
to Oracle's headquarters to go beat up the engineers. - Right.
- Although they probably should, but... - I'm sure they'd like to.
- I'm sure they'd like to. Yes, definitely, it's the vibe sometimes.
But you can't do that, because you're in a civil society
run by a government. But the definition of a government...
- Hey, maybe this whole government thing is a good idea.
- It's an excellent idea, and I think it should be carried on
much better than it is.
- Up until now, from Justin Sun to Liberland and Tim Draper,
everyone has been telling me how blockchain technology
and cryptocurrency can free us
and our money from government control.
But Curtis Yarvin has me wondering, who are we handing the control to?
Instead of banks and governments, could we end up handing it
to a bunch of blockchain-appointed monarchs instead?
The answer to this question may lie in Singapore,
where the most powerful figures
in crypto are due to gather this weekend.
This is the biggest cryptocurrency conference in the world.
It's called Token2049.
There are 25,000 attendees from over 160 different countries.
They've all come here to Singapore just for this.
And one of the main sponsors is Justin Sun's Tron Company.
One of the headline speakers is World Liberty Financial,
the Trump family's crypto venture.
World Liberty Financial is a crypto project
set up by the Trump family,
supposedly inspired by the president's vision.
President Trump's special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witkoff,
is a co-founder emeritus of the company.
World Liberty Financial is run in part by the two men's sons,
including Donald Trump Jr, Eric Trump,
Barron Trump and Zach Witkoff.
It's in this Trump family crypto venture that Justin Sun
poured over $75 million.
As I wait for Trump Jr's speech, the conference gives me a taste
of just how much money there is in crypto.
What do you think? What do you think?
A lot of it is giving
the vibe of like a small slot machine casino.
Like, everything's rewards if you like sign up
and, you know, it's all very... I don't know, it's giving casino.
- Please press the go button...
- It's a bit slower than playing with a human.
- Would you like robots to stay in the background
or stand beside people as visible partners?
- I'm asking the questions here, I think.
- Touche, Matt!
- It's all about seamless payments, global freedom,
untraceable wallets.
It's like, why does everyone need all their money
to be so untraceable? Like, what's everyone up to?
Everyone here seems to agree
that the government can't be trusted with our money.
- We want to trust the government,
but at the same time, we know that we cannot 100% trust them.
So I think there will have to be decentralised systems.
- Like, no government controls you.
And I had some problems with the government.
- So there will be this one world leader that's going
to drive down to the masses, OK,
that you cannot buy or sell unless you got his mark - 666.
And that is trackable using blockchain technology.
- There is a new world order coming
with a satanic sort of vibe.
- This golden age, the new world order is coming to power soon.
- OK. - And with this person in power, he will drive down this digital...
- Who is the person? - He's yet to be revealed.
- OK. Of course. Right. Yeah. Got it.
Satanic conspiracies aside,
people here are serious in their belief
that crypto is the way to free money from government control.
But are they simply handing that control to a new elite?
Donald Trump Jr's talk on World Liberty Financial is about to begin.
- Thank you, ladies. Appreciate it.
- Donald Trump Jr and Zach Witkoff
repeatedly claim the company is not political.
- World Liberty is not a political organisation. We are a business.
- President Trump officially stepped down from the company
once he took office.
But his family trust still own and profit from it,
and his face is quite literally all over the project.
- Yes, of course, we think President Trump is
the greatest president to ever exist in the history of the world.
- Donald Trump Jr claims that World Liberty Financial
was created after his family's money
was rejected by the traditional banking system.
- Once we did get political, which... We got quite political,
we woke up one morning and had 300 bank accounts just eliminated.
- So they embraced crypto
to free their money, and yours, from the banks.
- Right, we got into crypto because out of necessity. We were debanked,
so we came up with a solution.
- World Liberty Financial's main product is
a cryptocurrency coin called USD1.
It's what's known as a stablecoin,
a type of cryptocurrency designed to always be worth one US dollar,
backed by real world assets like cash or government bonds.
- World Liberty is shaping the future of all finance,
and it's supercharged by a stablecoin
they released earlier this year called USD1.
- The Trumps have now reportedly made
over $2.3 billion from their crypto businesses
and stand to make much, much more.
- And it's only the beginning. It's only going to get much stronger.
- World Liberty Financial's ability
to make millions of dollars for the Trump Family Trust,
and its connections to the sitting president,
have led to increased public scrutiny of the company,
and, in particular, why people
like Justin Sun have invested in it.
Back in 2020, under President Biden,
the US financial regulator,
the Securities and Exchange Commission, or SEC,
began to turn its eye towards the crypto industry.
They claimed it was rife with fraud and criminality,
and began investigating those they believed were responsible.
One target was Justin Sun,
and in March 2023,
the SEC charged him with fraud,
claiming he manipulated the price of his tokens
and hid payments to celebrities
who promoted them to the public.
- I pledge to the Bitcoin community that the day
I take the oath of office, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris's
anti-crypto crusade will be over.
On day one, I will fire Gary Gensler
and appoint a new SEC chairman.
- Then Trump was elected,
and shortly afterwards, Sun invested in the Trump family crypto project,
World Liberty Financial.
Shortly after that, the SEC, now restaffed
by Trump with crypto-friendly appointees...
- I'm really honoured by your trust and confidence
that you've placed in me.
- ..paused multiple crypto-related investigations, including Sun's.
Within a year, the case was dismissed
and Sun paid a $10 million sum as part of the settlement.
He denies the charges.
- Are you ready?
- CHEERING
But Justin Sun isn't the only example
of a major figure in the crypto industry
having investigations paused or charges dropped
after ploughing money into the Trump family's company.
In August 2024, CZ, the CEO of Binance,
the world's largest crypto company,
began serving a four-month prison sentence
for crimes related to money laundering.
While in prison, Binance set up a $2 billion deal
with an investment firm linked to the Emirati royals.
The currency used in this deal was
World Liberty Financial's USD1 token,
reportedly generating the company
between $40 million and $80 million a year.
After the deal was completed,
Trump gave Binance's CEO
a presidential pardon and he was set free.
People started to ask if these two events were related.
- How do you address the appearance of pay for play?
- Well, here's the thing, I know nothing about it
because I'm too busy doing the other.
- But he got a pardon. - I only tell you... - But he got a pardon.
- I can only tell you this. My sons are into it,
and I'm glad they are, because it's probably a great industry, crypto.
I think it's good. You know, they're running a business.
They're not in government. I know nothing about the guy.
- Donald Trump is clear there is no connection between
any decision taken by the SEC and the investments
in his family companies made by either Binance or Justin Sun.
- Cameras rolling. - I wanted to get Sun's take.
Some people have pointed specifically to
the timing of the SEC investigation being paused
being around the time that you invested heavily
in the Trump family crypto projects. - Yes.
Yes. - What is your response to those allegations
about the kind of coincidence of that timing?
- Sorry. - But he can say that, right? - Yeah.
Uh, the current case. Yeah.
- It's not us making those allegations.
Other people have made them,
so we then have to ask them, you know? - No comment. Yes, yes.
- Some still make the criticism,
they say this isn't about new technologies.
This is about people,
whether it's Donald Trump Jr or yourself, getting richer.
How much have the Trumps profited from their relationship with you?
- Uh...
Yeah.
- We do have to ask some questions about that, right?
Because it is important to people.
And, you know, we are a news organisation.
Are you uncomfortable answering those questions?
OK. But, you know, you've met Trump.
You know, you're in business with his family.
- Yeah. - Do you think
that he is embracing crypto because it's a wise economic policy,
or do you think it's because, as some have said,
he's doing it to make money for him and his family trust?
Tech billionaires like Justin Sun say
that the blockchain is a better way to run society.
The Trump family have discovered
it can at least make them billions of dollars.
Whatever their real motivations, an alliance has formed between
the world of crypto and the White House.
- The Genius Act creates a clear and simple regulatory framework
to establish and unleash the immense promise
of dollar-backed stablecoins.
- To find out what effect this alliance is having on democracy,
I spoke to a reporter
who's an expert in crypto and in Justin Sun.
- World Liberty Financial,
anyone can invest in it, so it seems.
They say that they do their own due diligence
in checking out their primary investors.
But I think that if a mogul like Justin Sun
is easily able to plough a bunch of money into the project,
it seems like a pretty accessible avenue.
- Accessible for what?
- This is a way to give money
about as directly as you could
to the president or his family.
- The tech industry as a whole,
how much power do they wield in the White House now?
- Up until this point,
the fossil fuel industry has been the biggest campaign finance donor.
And this last election cycle,
they contributed around $219 million.
But crypto surpassed that and did 238 million,
according to... - Wow. - Yeah.
- So it's the most powerful lobby in US politics today.
- Yes. In short order, it's become...
It's just a wave of money at this point.
When you take an example now, like the new White House ballroom,
and you look at the list of donors now,
it contains a lot of names we're familiar with,
of companies like Apple, Amazon, Microsoft.
But further down the list, you know, around eighth, ninth, tenth,
you start seeing cryptocurrency companies -
Coinbase, Ripple, Tether.
- I think it'll be one of the great ballrooms anywhere in the world.
It's about $300 million, and it's being paid for 100%
by me and some friends of mine, donors.
- Right now, the east wing of the White House
is being demolished to make way
for Trump's new $300 million ballroom.
A lot of people have said this is
a metaphor for how Trump sees the US government,
but it's hard not to see another metaphor at play, too,
which is that this demolition and the construction
of this ballroom is almost entirely funded
by tech and crypto billionaires and millionaires,
and a lot of them don't just want to demolish the White House,
they want to demolish the very economic and political structures
that underwrite our entire society.
The question is, what do they want to demolish it for?
The promise was decentralisation,
freedom from the old power structures.
But look at who's getting rich and who's gaining control.
Every example I've seen ends
in wealth and power flowing to whoever controls the technology.
Our governments and financial systems are imperfect,
but by tearing them down,
are we simply handing their power to a newer, less accountable elite?
- # Welcome to your life
# There's no turning back
# Even while we sleep
# We will find you
# Acting on your best behaviour
# Turn your back on Mother Nature
# Everybody wants to rule the world
# It's my own design
# It's my own remorse
# Help me to decide
# Help me make the most of freedom
# And of pleasure
# Nothing ever lasts forever
# Everybody wants to rule the world
# There's a room
# Where the light won't find you
# Holding hands while the walls come tumbling down
# When they do, I'll be right behind you
# So glad we've almost made it
# So sad they had to fade it... #
- Why don't we shake hands?
- Excellent choice, Matt.
Extending my hand.
Don't worry. Robot grip is set to polite.
Ready for the handshake? - I'm ready. Never been readier.
Still ready. - Firm handshake.
- Take your time. Take your time. - Steady and confident here.
- Just slot it in there.
Oh. - There we go, Matt. Handshake complete. - Yeah.
- Not bad for a robot, right? - Well...
- Should I practise my signature for autographs next?