1 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,360 KNOCKING 2 00:01:00,700 --> 00:01:02,840 - Hello? - Good morning, Mr Holoborodko. 3 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,120 Can I connect you with Angela Merkel? 4 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:06,600 - Yes, you can connect. 5 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,040 - NEWS ANCHOR: - An actor, known for his TV role 6 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:15,480 as President of Ukraine, 7 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,920 is now set to take over that position in real life. 8 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:16,400 - He was extraordinarily popular. 9 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,480 He impressed immediately, like, "Wow!" 10 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,880 - He played the kind of character 11 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,400 that Ukraine was dreaming about. 12 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,400 - Ukraine is a place where the destiny 13 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,600 of this century will be hammered out. 14 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,240 - EXPLOSION 15 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,120 - We're going to be surrounded 16 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,840 within 40 minutes or so. 17 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,680 - This is a threat to democracy 18 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,400 for the world. 19 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,000 Imagine, imagine being in that situation. 20 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,560 - I think it's the President 21 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,880 who can really tell this story. 22 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,760 - CHEERING 23 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,040 - Nothing could dampen the sheer exuberance 24 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,000 that welcomed in the 1990s, as an explosion of colour and sound 25 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,600 released the pent-up emotions of the past decade. 26 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,600 - The most evocative symbol of 27 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,040 the divide between East and West, 28 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:04,360 the Berlin Wall, is open 29 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,400 to East Germans to walk through. 30 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,200 - Vladimir Putin watched the fall of the Berlin Wall with horror. 31 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,840 When the Soviet Union collapsed, 32 00:04:17,840 --> 00:04:20,400 the kind of...the security guys, 33 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,800 the power guys, the spook guys were on the back foot. 34 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,800 By this point, Putin's a mid-ranking KGB spy, 35 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,760 working undercover in communist East Germany. 36 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,160 And as demonstrators were trying to storm the Stasi building... 37 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,400 ..he called Moscow for instruction, and he said Moscow was silent. 38 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,240 - Boris Yeltsin had come to bury the Soviet Union 39 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,440 and to build the new Commonwealth. 40 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,480 This will not be a single state, 41 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,120 rather, a collection of independent countries. 42 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:07,960 The Soviet Union had ceased to exist. 43 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,440 - Many people here find it hard to trust the Russians. 44 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,760 They blame them for years of suppression of 45 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,800 the Ukrainian culture, and they're worried that 46 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,800 Russia may not accept the Ukraine as an equal partner. 47 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,440 - While Putin is fuming back in Russia, 48 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,960 a teenager called Volodymyr Zelensky 49 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,400 is coming of age in the new Ukraine. 50 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,840 Hello. - Hello. - Mr President, thank you so much for your time. 51 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,400 Thank you. - Thank you very much, yes. 52 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,000 - My colleagues. - Yeah. 53 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,360 Hi. - Hi. 54 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,800 - Through this mirror, can you see me? - I see your face. 55 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,800 - If you could go back to 56 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,840 the 16-year-old Volodymyr... 57 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:34,320 - 16? - 16. 58 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,680 ..and tell him that he would become President...? 59 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,960 - When I was 16, no. 60 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,440 No. But it's not... 61 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,800 Of course, of course I had another dream, 62 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,280 another view of my life, of future. 63 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,080 Really, I think that people who are 16, 64 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,920 they don't think about future, they think about today, really. 65 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,520 And today, when I was 16, 66 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,880 I was not thinking about any politics, any mission. 67 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:17,000 Your future is next week. That is your closest dream, your... 68 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,480 Something like this. 69 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,320 - What WERE your dreams? 70 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,680 - I was very free. 71 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,120 It's the end of Soviet Union. 72 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,160 Young people, what they want? 73 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:43,800 They want to be free, they wanted to see the planet. 74 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,360 And to go where? Everywhere. 75 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:49,600 Just for some dreams. 76 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,240 You just want to meet, speak, 77 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,000 and your eyes are big. 78 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:01,480 And, of course, I wanted to find me in this big world. 79 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:07,520 Of course, my parents wanted me to be, you know, er, calm, 80 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,200 to be calm, yes, and to study, and that's it. 81 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,960 I found time for everything. 82 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,440 Freedom, it's a great thing, freedom. 83 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,840 - It's an amazing journey. 84 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,880 Zelensky, he came from 85 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,040 eastern part of Ukraine, 86 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,160 industrialised and, you know, heavily populated. 87 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:42,760 The new generation 88 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,400 wanted to become a new, 89 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,960 successful Eastern European country. 90 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,480 - I love my city. It's not capital, 91 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,040 and it's, like, what do you love? 92 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,160 You love people who are around you, 93 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,200 so people, girls, boys who are from your childhood. 94 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,680 - Thank you. 95 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:09,760 Uh, did you order a coffee? 96 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,000 - No, whisky! - Ah! 97 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,600 - Friendship. 98 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,440 I loved my city because my childhood was there, 99 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,560 because my friends been there, near me. 100 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,040 Great time. 101 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,400 We had nothing, but we had everything. 102 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,360 - I saw him... 103 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,200 We had an English lesson in my class, 104 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,880 and the teach...it was speaking. 105 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,320 And she went off, and she returned in five minutes 106 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,920 with two very young kids. It was a very, very tall girl 107 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,880 and a very, very small boy. 108 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,080 And teacher said, 109 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,440 "Speak on this topic - London. 110 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,520 "Volo, show them how to do that." 111 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,360 And he started like, "London is the capital of Great Britain, 112 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,160 "situated on the River Thames," and I was really shocked because... 113 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,800 ..his voice didn't fit to his size, because he was really small. 114 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,200 Day by day, gradually, we became friends. 115 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,440 - I didn't know Volodymyr yet, 116 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:19,120 but his father, um, study...was a teacher. 117 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,720 I teach technology in the '90s. 118 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,400 He was very charismatic and very funny. 119 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:30,440 And all students, 120 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,920 we know that he is very honest. 121 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:40,120 - Zelensky inherited from his father principles. 122 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,720 And on the other hand is his mother. 123 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,720 Humble, very loving Jewish woman. 124 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:26,960 - Long hair. 125 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,040 Guitar, long hair. 126 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,680 Rings, earrings, 127 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,080 something rock and roll. 128 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,000 - Were you cool? 129 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,320 - I think... 130 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,520 I think... 131 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,960 You have to ask my wife, of course. 132 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,920 But, but...I think, yes. 133 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,680 - He was cool, yeah. 134 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:49,600 - So, he was a little bit of a troublemaker? 135 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,280 - He was always. 136 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,240 - Really? - Yeah. 137 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,480 - Is that what you found attractive? 138 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,040 - Um, being honest, no. 139 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,480 - So, when did romance start? 140 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,480 - One of the best, I think, moments in my life, when I met my wife. 141 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:21,120 I just looked at her and I think I just loved, and that's it. 142 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,880 I saw her at school. 143 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,840 When we began to speak, 144 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,080 when I understood who is she, 145 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:33,680 and I hope she understood who am I... 146 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,960 - Did that take some time? 147 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,640 For me or for her? - For her. 148 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,000 Sorry! 149 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,280 I don't know. 150 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:10,320 - I saw Volodymyr the first time like an actor. 151 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,800 Volodymyr, with his friends, 152 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,200 took part in a competition. 153 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,480 - CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 154 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:25,040 - And I remember, "Best actor is...Volodymyr Zelensky!" 155 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,200 "Me? Me?" And, "Yes. Yes, you!" 156 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:34,040 His eyes, it was like big plate. 157 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,480 After that, he believe in himself. 158 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:42,880 You know, when the universe, 159 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,840 er, priznayut, recognised you. 160 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,480 - He was very good comedian, 161 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:56,600 and we were big fans of KVN. 162 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,840 - This show, KVN, 163 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,960 was legendary in the Soviet times. 164 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,680 If I tried to describe it to you, 165 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:12,440 it would be kind of televised competition of stand-up comedians. 166 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,320 It gained an extraordinary, 167 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,880 enormous popularity. 168 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,880 - We decided to make our own team. 169 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,560 You have to improvise. 170 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:30,280 You have to show things that you've been rehearsing. The main thing, 171 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:31,600 it have to be funny. 172 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,800 - I was on the jury. 173 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,760 Oh, he impressed immediately, 174 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,440 because he was making fun of everything. 175 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,720 - Hello... 176 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,240 - I remember, he makes a joke on...and very rude jokes 177 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,720 on the President. 178 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,960 "SOS, America, SOS". 179 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,800 In Russian, er, he's speaking, 180 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,840 it sounds like "suck me". 181 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,560 - Suck me? - Yes! 182 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,800 The show, for many young people, 183 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,600 was the only platform for irony 184 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,960 and, sometimes, even satire. 185 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:47,200 And that's why it was absolutely unexpected for Russian viewers. 186 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 I believe they managed to make 187 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,160 the only political satire 188 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,200 in the former Soviet Union. 189 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,600 - Clever. 190 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,480 THEY SING 191 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,480 - We loved him immediately. 192 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,520 And basically, he won 193 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,240 this Ukrainian league of KVN. 194 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:55,680 And he was invited to do, with his team, the run for Russian league. 195 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,320 That was, in that time, considered to be the kind of Premier League. 196 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,240 - Moscow League, they show you 197 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,840 on TV, on primetime. 198 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,800 It was the top. 199 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,560 There's nothing higher than that. 200 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,240 - CHEERING 201 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,640 At the same time that Zelensky discovered that 202 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,720 his entertainment skills could win an audience, Vladimir Putin 203 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,320 had discovered that his gifts for 204 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,240 surviving had taken him to the point 205 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,840 where Boris Yeltsin made him 206 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,240 Prime Minister of the Russian Federation. 207 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,360 He was made Yeltsin's heir. 208 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,040 - Mr Yeltsin now has named him as 209 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,600 his chosen candidate in next year's 210 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:09,280 race for the presidency. 211 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,840 Mr Putin's task will be to build up his own support 212 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,120 and destroy Mr Yeltsin's political opponents. 213 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,240 - Putin coming to that, why would he have done that? 214 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,200 - You know, to use the... 215 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:44,000 I would say to exploit the popularity of the show. 216 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,160 - SINGING 217 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,800 - This show has an extraordinary, enormous popularity. 218 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,480 He used this chance to be seen 219 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,880 able to smile, to laugh, 220 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,080 and there were a few jokes about him. 221 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,880 He said, "We're going to Kyiv 222 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,760 "to start our own company." 223 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:27,440 He was always saying kind of, "Let's do it. We'll succeed." 224 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,080 - What was Volodymyr Zelensky's role 225 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,680 in all this? 226 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,400 - I'm a big fan of basketball... - Mm-hm. 227 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,240 - ..and I can compare it to 228 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,520 Michael Jordan in Chicago Bulls. 229 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,400 They won everything because of him. 230 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,680 He's a kind of locomotive 231 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,120 that pulls the train. 232 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:52,960 Not only frontman on the stage, 233 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,480 he's main writer, chief editor, 234 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,600 he made decisions in finances, 235 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,520 he was a leader in everything. 236 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:02,720 And I always trusted him because 237 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,680 I believe that he has his lucky star 238 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,760 that leads him, that helps him. 239 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,720 - Putin's first visit as President 240 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,720 was meeting the Prime Minister 241 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,240 and for talks in Number Ten. 242 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,200 - We're just doing to go right down here... 243 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920 - We are beginning to build up what looks like a useful relationship. 244 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,360 - Prime Minister, how are you? - Thanks so much. - Not at all. 245 00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:47,400 - Really great. Really enjoyed it. - Glad you enjoyed it, thank you. 246 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,800 - Putin, you could see he was trying to put on the charm. 247 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,280 Putin was very controlled, 248 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,920 would occasionally try to show a bit of humour. 249 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,400 - Language is already pre-set. 250 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,760 Er, Russian is on channel three. 251 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,280 - Next time, make sure that the Russian is on channel one. 252 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,920 - LAUGHTER 253 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,480 - The thing that struck all of us about Putin 254 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,960 was his eyes - very small, rather cold. 255 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,880 We were asking ourselves 256 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,840 if he was for real about wanting to build up relations with the West. 257 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,960 All went pretty well and was very 258 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,840 constructive, except for one moment. 259 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,320 - Right. 260 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,240 Er, one last question, I think, is all we've got time for, so... 261 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,840 - I wanted to ask President Putin that there are many concerns 262 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:54,720 in Britain and elsewhere about the conduct of the war in Chechnya. 263 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,880 How does he propose to show people in the Western world 264 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,360 that those fears are misplaced? 265 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,840 - Putin became highly emotional, 266 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,360 almost paranoid. 267 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,400 He really couldn't discuss it in any kind of rational way. 268 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,640 And I would discover, 269 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,320 talking to Putin's staff, 270 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,000 that he wouldn't just do this with 271 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,720 foreigners. They would say to me, 272 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,120 "Look, it's impossible to talk to him, he just gets angry." 273 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,240 After the 2004 election, 274 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,800 Putin became a much more confident, 275 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,200 much more assertive individual, 276 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,320 and unpleasant things started happening. 277 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,880 In Ukraine, mysteriously, 278 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,560 a pro-Western candidate for election was poisoned. 279 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,440 - NEWS ANCHOR: - Now, more on this 280 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,880 developing story about the poisoning 281 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,680 of one of the presidential candidates in Ukraine. 282 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:07,600 - Viktor Yushchenko has claimed 283 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,400 he was poisoned by his political enemies. 284 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:11,960 - Nobody knows who did it, 285 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,080 but it looked a little bit like a KGB operation. 286 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,920 The Russian intelligence services 287 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,040 have a well-known, long history of 288 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,360 poisoning people they do not like. 289 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,080 - CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 290 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,520 - With that particular show, 291 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,080 Zelensky has become 292 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,680 extraordinarily popular in Ukraine. 293 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,680 So he set up his own company with his partners, 294 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,200 and he started to produce more and more shows. 295 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,760 And the only step left for him not exploited and not explored, 296 00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,240 that was movies. 297 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,240 - Volodymyr said, "Sometime, 298 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,440 "I will be on Oscars stage, 299 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,520 "and all audience will applause to us, 300 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,400 "to us and our job, our work." 301 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,000 - LOUD BUBBLING 302 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,680 - Ah, Russia! 303 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:57,880 - His movies were 304 00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,840 extraordinarily popular 305 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,880 in Ukraine, but also, in Russia... 306 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,800 ..with millions of people watching. 307 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,200 What can you have more 308 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,080 in that particular moment? What could be more? Nothing. 309 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,840 But, you know, as always in life, that was something between 310 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,360 the complete dramatic change, 311 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,280 turn of the circumstances, 312 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,360 and so it turned out to be 313 00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:26,240 the end of the whole epoch. 314 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,720 - Boris Yeltsin's funeral 315 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,760 was a symbolic moment for Russia... 316 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,400 ..marking the transition from one order to another. 317 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,400 By this stage, it was Putin's Russia. 318 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,720 At Yeltsin's funeral, 319 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:27,560 very significantly, we see Viktor Yanukovych. 320 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,640 He is the Ukrainian that Vladimir Putin wishes to have in power. 321 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,200 It was absolutely critical, from Putin's point of view, 322 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,000 that he should control Ukraine. 323 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,360 - Without Yanukovych, 324 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,080 Zelensky might have never left 325 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,240 the world of entertainment. 326 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,600 In Ukraine, Yanukovych was practically... 327 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,480 ..the boss of the organised crime group, 328 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,480 not even trying to hide it! 329 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,480 I met him. 330 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,400 Yanukovych was always a bandit. 331 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,040 He was a typical, you know, 332 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,200 considered to be a typical criminal. 333 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,080 - Putin eventually got his wish, 334 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,000 and Yanukovych became President of Ukraine in 2010. 335 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,600 - Soon after he became President, 336 00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,880 Ukraine was being plundered by Yanukovych and his friends. 337 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,400 On the outskirts of Kyiv, 338 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,040 he builds a naff estate, 339 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,400 with a pirate galleon and a zoo. 340 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,840 He had turned Ukraine 341 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:48,240 into a laughing stock. 342 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:55,280 He looted the state, he made his dentist son a billionaire, 343 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,160 and he jailed his main opponents. 344 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,520 - Mr Yanukovych denies allegations 345 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,240 of embezzling state funds, 346 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,040 or of hiding millions of dollars 347 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:06,800 in foreign bank accounts. 348 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,600 - Ukraine has been pretty badly governed since 1990, 349 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,760 but it's always had freedom of expression. 350 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,840 And one could see younger people 351 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,280 who wanted Ukraine to be a more honest, 352 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,080 better governed, more European country, 353 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,320 and Zelensky is the embodiment of it. 354 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,000 They're not against Russia, 355 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,800 but they were pro becoming part of Europe and the European Union. 356 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,200 The turning point was when 357 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,200 Yanukovych tore up an agreement with the European Union - 358 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,880 which was basically a symbol, 359 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,240 a sign that Ukraine was integrating with the West - 360 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,880 and accepted a bail-out from Vladimir Putin and Russia. 361 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,320 Erm, and there were protests. 362 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,960 - CHANTING 363 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,440 NEWS REPORTER: - People have come 364 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:13,720 throughout the day, surging out of 365 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,640 the Metro with European Union flags 366 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,440 with the national flag of Ukraine, 367 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,160 and they are rallying in the centre of this square. 368 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,040 - CHEERING 369 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,360 - Yanukovych was under a great deal of pressure to clear the square. 370 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,320 He was getting clear signals 371 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,440 from Moscow, from the Kremlin, 372 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,280 to put down the rebellion, 373 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:05,560 and it led to a series of 374 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,200 increasingly violent clashes with police. 375 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,040 - REPORTER: - This is a scene of absolute chaos. 376 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,600 The police are throwing stun... 377 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,120 - EXPLOSION 378 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,440 - EXPLOSION - There is total... 379 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,280 - This is a major political crisis in Ukraine. 380 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,800 - The Maidan Revolution, 381 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,680 what impact did those events 382 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,400 have on you, personally? 383 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,280 - A lot. 384 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,480 I think all of us - I mean, about our group - 385 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,120 we thought, how to help this situation? 386 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,320 We didn't think about any, you know, 387 00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,600 political future, or something. It's not ambition. 388 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,000 It's not my ambitions, in those times, without any thoughts. 389 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:44,440 You... You...had to make a choice. 390 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,720 What is the price of your life? Yes. 391 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,000 - In the car, going there, did you plan what to say, 392 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,480 or was it just spontaneous? 393 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,680 - I planned. I... 394 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,840 First of all, we are honest. 395 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,720 We decided at the very beginning of our dialogue. - Please! - Yes. All... 396 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,480 All... All which is spontaneous, 397 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,600 you...you have to prepare something. 398 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,760 I drived to the studio, 399 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,920 of course, I thought, what I have to say? 400 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,960 I have to address to everybody I can. 401 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,000 You feel that you can help now, 402 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,480 and you want just to address something to help with something. 403 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,720 What I had, I said. 404 00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:01,680 I understood that if, of course, I was popular, 405 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,480 it was important because my messages would be not only to Ukraine, 406 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:08,840 also, to Russia, I was very popular in Russia. 407 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,840 - It's stunning, 408 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,680 because he - already, in 2014 - 409 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:47,560 is talking to Putin as an equal. 410 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,800 That's the moment when the comedian 411 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,880 stopped joking and became serious. 412 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,120 - REPORTER: - This CCTV footage 413 00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,080 appears to show Mr Yanukovych's 414 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,800 entourage fleeing by helicopter. 415 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,040 The former President's current whereabouts are a mystery. 416 00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,400 - Putin's man in Ukraine, Yanukovych, 417 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,120 has been ousted by a democratic protest. 418 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,080 So this is a humiliation for Putin and, at this stage, 419 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,720 Putin feels he has got to do something to get his own back... 420 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,960 ..so he goes for Crimea. 421 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,640 - REPORTER: - A platoon of troops deployed this morning around 422 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,440 the main airport in Crimea. 423 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,120 This is sovereign Ukrainian territory. 424 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,440 These were not Ukrainian troops. 425 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:33,680 - Then he did a second thing. 426 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,400 He sent troops into 427 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,360 Donetsk and Luhansk, 428 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,080 eastern provinces of Ukraine, 429 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,320 and he started a war 430 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,760 in those two provinces. 431 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,640 Putin claimed, "We are not ourselves fighting in those regions," 432 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,640 but it was entirely obvious 433 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,840 to the world, they were. 434 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,840 - Many people inside of Ukraine 435 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,600 cut off the ties with Russia, 436 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,120 and most important challenge was for Zelensky. 437 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,120 Zelensky needed to choose between 438 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,400 the Russian prospects of business 439 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,480 and Ukrainian identity. 440 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,480 - Can you work? Can you... 441 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,200 Can you sell products to Russia? 442 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,320 When you have company, a lot of people, they need work 443 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:49,200 and they need job, and business between a lot of... 444 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,520 But you have to choose. 445 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,840 So the decision was, we stop. 446 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,560 We will stop all the relations. 447 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,440 So we closed the offices, and we... 448 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,840 That's it. That's it. 449 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,800 And all of us, we wanted to change our work. I mean, this... 450 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,960 Now, this, to do some more movies or TV programmes, 451 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:19,440 so documentary and dramas, something new for Ukraine. 452 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,080 - And then came Servant of the People. 453 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,320 The premise is quite simple. 454 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,000 You have an everyman - 455 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,800 a school teacher, 456 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,160 who is fed up with corruption 457 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,760 and misrule in Ukraine, and is 458 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,120 talking to his sort of 459 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,280 secondary school students, 460 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,040 and starts ranting about the state of the country. 461 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:07,000 One of his students films it on a phone, posts it online 462 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,480 and this thing goes viral. 463 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,680 He goes from being an ordinary guy 464 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,480 to running a country. 465 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,320 Zelensky was an actor, but he was telling them something true about 466 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,160 the society in which they live, where there was impunity 467 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,080 for the rich, where politicians routinely stole. 468 00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,480 So you see these oligarchs - sometimes, faceless - 469 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,760 around the table, saying they can control Zelensky 470 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:20,920 and, of course, Zelensky doesn't go according to their script. 471 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,360 - We always had a President 472 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,120 that we wanted to change. 473 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,640 At first, we kind of liked them, 474 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,160 and in a year, we wanted to change them. 475 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,880 And he played the kind of character 476 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,280 that Ukraine was dreaming about. 477 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,400 - What's so delightful about the show 478 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,960 is that it blurs fiction and reality. 479 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,880 So much of it was actually shot in Mezhyhirya, 480 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,520 which was Yanukovych's play palace, on the outskirts of Kyiv. 481 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,880 - Servant of the People has expressed 482 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:43,920 the willingness of Ukrainians, 483 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:48,680 you know, to start the newer life, really new life. 484 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,880 Not with the people from the past. 485 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,160 It made people believe 486 00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,000 that change is possible. 487 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:46,360 - He became even more popular 488 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,640 because of the Servant of the People. 489 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,360 He was Paddington. 490 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,080 By the summer of 2018, 491 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,600 he was one of the most popular people in Ukraine. 492 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,120 I remember that the rumours started to fly around. 493 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,320 In different TV shows, 494 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,440 in internet and YouTube, 495 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,720 they started to talk about 496 00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:19,880 Zelensky taking part in elections. 497 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:25,240 And we were thinking, "So what is that, it's kind of a joke?" 498 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:27,600 And, of course, we ask him what it's all about. 499 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,680 He was answering in, like, in jokes. 500 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,440 But day by day, month by month, 501 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,680 it was more obvious 502 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,440 that it's not a joke. 503 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,040 That something going to happen. 504 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,360 - So your husband made a public announcement 505 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,640 that he was running for President, and he hadn't told you? 506 00:49:02,720 --> 00:49:04,240 THEY LAUGH Weren't you...? 507 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:05,520 What did you say to him? 508 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,360 And more important, what did he say to you? What was his excuse? 509 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,840 - She was honest, that's why she was angry. 510 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,520 And I think that, er... 511 00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:47,520 She's smart, and I think she knew about it. 512 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,440 Not from me, but she understood everything before. 513 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,440 Of course, she understood, I think so. 514 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,560 But she was not ready to, you know, to recognise it 515 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:04,000 and to hear it. She was afraid, because new challenges, 516 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,920 now we see that she was right, a lot of challenges. 517 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,760 Yes, and I... 518 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:15,200 I did everything oppositely, so I'm...I'm sorry. 519 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,960 I'm sorry. I... I... 520 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:24,000 I can tell now, "Sorry, my love, I'm so sorry, yes." Um... 521 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,840 Yes, difficult decision. 522 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:33,000 But she understood that I couldn't do other way. 523 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,400 It's the decision of your life. 524 00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,560 You... You made this choice, 525 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:45,280 and if she had opportunity 526 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,280 to change my mind, 527 00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,880 I think she couldn't do it. 528 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:27,320 He's named his political party 529 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,360 Servant of the People as well. 530 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,800 - I was scriptwriter 531 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,480 at Servant of the People, 532 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,160 and now I am speech writer. 533 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,280 It was something new. 534 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,360 We didn't know how it works. We didn't know how... 535 00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,280 We didn't know what is a political election campaign, 536 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,000 er, actually. 537 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,280 We don't have a big budget. 538 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,520 We have one office and 30 people. That's nothing. 539 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:53,240 - Zelensky's main opponent was Petro Poroshenko, the incumbent President. 540 00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:01,640 - Poroshenko was always challenging Zelensky for the bid. 541 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,720 And the basic idea of Poroshenko was very simple, 542 00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:09,480 to demonstrate the ignorance of Zelensky. 543 00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:26,000 - CROWD CHANTS 544 00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:34,160 - Zelensky came up with a great idea - 545 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,200 to do the debate in 546 00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:41,280 a very familiar format. The show. 547 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,680 The performance. Stage. 548 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,480 With an audience. 549 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,840 - Poroshenko was the war guy, 550 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,760 who would fight Russia, who would support the military 551 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,320 who were in the east, fighting this kind of brutal war. 552 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:52,960 Zelensky said, "I am the peace guy. 553 00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,080 "I will bring peace to the East. 554 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,480 "I will sit down with Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin 555 00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,880 "and we will reach a settlement." 556 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:34,840 - CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 557 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,040 REPORTER: - When will you stand up to Putin? 558 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:49,480 - Are you ready to be President? 559 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,840 - I... I don't know. The people will decide it in the evening. 560 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:44,800 - CHEERING 561 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,760 - I understood everything, before election, 562 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,760 it will be very difficult, very difficult. 563 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,640 And at this moment, you understand that... 564 00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,800 ..it's not about difficulties, it's about another life. 565 00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,880 That's it. Another life. 566 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,040 - To find out more about Ukraine 567 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:47,520 and some of the influential people whose stories have shaped it, 568 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,960 go to bbc.co.uk/zelensky, 569 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,600 and follow the links to the Open University's interactive gallery. 570 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,420 - Volodymyr Zelensky! 571 01:01:04,420 --> 01:01:06,660 - CHEERING 572 01:01:06,660 --> 01:01:10,940 - He was extraordinarily popular. He impressed immediately. Like, "Wow!" 573 01:01:15,620 --> 01:01:17,300 - He played the kind of character 574 01:01:17,300 --> 01:01:19,900 that Ukraine was dreaming about. 575 01:01:26,900 --> 01:01:29,860 - Ukraine is the place where the destiny 576 01:01:29,860 --> 01:01:32,140 of this century will be hammered out. 577 01:01:33,420 --> 01:01:34,700 - EXPLOSION 578 01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:37,580 - We're going to be surrounded 579 01:01:37,580 --> 01:01:39,660 within 40 minutes or so. 580 01:01:41,820 --> 01:01:43,500 - This is a threat to democracy 581 01:01:43,500 --> 01:01:45,660 for the world. 582 01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:49,340 Imagine... 583 01:01:49,340 --> 01:01:51,460 Imagine being in that situation. 584 01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:56,660 - I think it's the President 585 01:01:56,660 --> 01:01:59,860 who can really tell this story. 586 01:02:17,420 --> 01:02:20,900 - CROWD: - Zelensky! Zelensky! 587 01:02:20,900 --> 01:02:24,980 Zelensky! Zelensky! 588 01:02:24,980 --> 01:02:30,100 Zelensky! Zelensky! Zelensky! 589 01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:31,220 Zelensky! 590 01:02:50,300 --> 01:02:53,420 Zelensky! Zelensky! 591 01:02:53,420 --> 01:02:55,340 Zelensky! 592 01:03:03,340 --> 01:03:05,980 - I remember him, when he won the elections, 593 01:03:05,980 --> 01:03:08,500 and he called me and he said, "Listen, 594 01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:10,820 "it's only for one term, 595 01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:13,900 "we will fix it up, it's going to be much better, 596 01:03:13,900 --> 01:03:17,860 "and I will go back, and then I'm going to be just 46 years old 597 01:03:17,860 --> 01:03:22,380 "and I will produce my movies and I will win my Oscar." 598 01:03:24,380 --> 01:03:26,420 - CHEERING 599 01:03:26,420 --> 01:03:31,060 - I was a scriptwriter of Servant of the People, and now, 600 01:03:31,060 --> 01:03:33,140 when Volodymyr became President, 601 01:03:33,140 --> 01:03:37,580 I continue my work with him as speech writer. 602 01:03:38,780 --> 01:03:40,620 - FANFARE 603 01:03:58,260 --> 01:04:00,580 - To become a President, 604 01:04:00,580 --> 01:04:03,020 but to stay a man. 605 01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:04,780 Human. 606 01:05:09,660 --> 01:05:11,580 - APPLAUSE 607 01:05:17,420 --> 01:05:19,620 - You played a President 608 01:05:19,620 --> 01:05:22,620 and then you became President. What was the difference? 609 01:05:23,900 --> 01:05:26,140 - Different things. Pfff! 610 01:05:27,180 --> 01:05:31,180 Different things. Even... Even I can't compare. 611 01:05:31,180 --> 01:05:32,660 So it's... 612 01:05:35,420 --> 01:05:37,780 This is very difficult work. 613 01:05:43,420 --> 01:05:45,700 - There were very serious challenges 614 01:05:45,700 --> 01:05:49,180 that he was going to face from day one of taking the presidency. 615 01:05:50,420 --> 01:05:53,660 Zelensky has a phone conversation with Donald Trump, 616 01:05:53,660 --> 01:05:55,860 the President of the United States... 617 01:05:57,060 --> 01:05:59,660 ..in which, Trump essentially seemed to say, 618 01:05:59,660 --> 01:06:04,900 "We'll continue giving you military aid if you do us a favour." 619 01:06:04,900 --> 01:06:08,420 He wanted an investigation that would dig up dirt 620 01:06:08,420 --> 01:06:10,220 on Trump's political rivals. 621 01:06:10,220 --> 01:06:13,100 Namely, Joe Biden and Joe Biden's son, Hunter. 622 01:06:21,900 --> 01:06:24,660 As Zelensky and his team landed in New York 623 01:06:24,660 --> 01:06:27,460 for the UN General Assembly, all of this was coming out. 624 01:06:29,420 --> 01:06:30,980 - Zelensky finds himself embroiled in 625 01:06:30,980 --> 01:06:33,020 this enormous shit-show. 626 01:06:35,900 --> 01:06:37,860 News of this phone call 627 01:06:37,860 --> 01:06:39,220 leads to impeachment proceedings 628 01:06:39,220 --> 01:06:41,180 being launched against Trump... 629 01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:44,180 - I think it's ridiculous. It's a witch-hunt. 630 01:06:45,180 --> 01:06:47,900 - ..and Zelensky is straight away in an impossible position. 631 01:07:04,420 --> 01:07:08,300 But the truth is, Trump did ask him to find dirt on the Bidens. 632 01:07:13,660 --> 01:07:15,860 - I will say this, I know a lot of people 633 01:07:15,860 --> 01:07:18,180 from Ukraine. They're great people. 634 01:07:18,180 --> 01:07:22,420 And I owned something called the Miss Universe Pageants years ago 635 01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:26,900 and I sold it to IMG, and when I ran for President, 636 01:07:26,900 --> 01:07:29,100 I thought maybe it wouldn't be the greatest thing to own 637 01:07:29,100 --> 01:07:32,660 the Miss Universe and Miss USA Pageants. But it's a great thing 638 01:07:32,660 --> 01:07:36,900 and we had a winner from Ukraine, and we've really had... 639 01:07:36,900 --> 01:07:39,900 We got to know the country very well, in a lot of different ways. 640 01:07:39,900 --> 01:07:42,900 But it's a country, I think, with tremendous potential. - Yes. 641 01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:45,500 I know it, because I am from that country. - Right. 642 01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:47,060 - LAUGHTER 643 01:07:47,060 --> 01:07:48,460 - Thank you very much. 644 01:07:48,460 --> 01:07:49,580 It's a great honour. 645 01:07:49,580 --> 01:07:50,900 - Thank you very much, Mr President. 646 01:07:57,620 --> 01:08:01,420 I'm sorry, but I don't want to be involved 647 01:08:01,420 --> 01:08:06,140 to democratic, open elections of USA. 648 01:08:06,140 --> 01:08:08,900 No, you heard that we had, er, 649 01:08:08,900 --> 01:08:11,900 I think, good phone call. 650 01:08:11,900 --> 01:08:15,740 It was normal. We spoke about many things. 651 01:08:15,740 --> 01:08:20,060 And so, I think, and you read it, 652 01:08:20,060 --> 01:08:24,300 that nobody pushed...pushed me, yes. - In other words, no pressure. 653 01:08:34,620 --> 01:08:39,220 - Some people tell that Servant of the People is a fairy tale. 654 01:08:39,220 --> 01:08:40,540 It's not. 655 01:08:40,540 --> 01:08:42,620 The story is about one man 656 01:08:42,620 --> 01:08:47,260 who tried to broke the system and...can't. 657 01:08:52,900 --> 01:08:55,900 - In the TV show, Zelensky and his fellow comedy writers 658 01:08:55,900 --> 01:08:59,140 are in control of the reality - they write the script. 659 01:09:01,900 --> 01:09:05,100 In the real world, Zelensky is not 660 01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:07,300 in control of who he deals with 661 01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:10,140 and what words come out of their mouth. 662 01:09:10,140 --> 01:09:12,860 Reality is out of his control. 663 01:09:19,140 --> 01:09:21,140 - As well as problems with Trump, 664 01:09:21,140 --> 01:09:23,620 he also has problems with Putin. 665 01:09:23,620 --> 01:09:25,820 Putin has effectively occupied 666 01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:27,300 a chunk of eastern Ukraine 667 01:09:27,300 --> 01:09:28,900 and annexed Crimea. 668 01:09:43,660 --> 01:09:47,620 - In 2014, Putin used special forces, 669 01:09:47,620 --> 01:09:49,340 without any insignia, 670 01:09:49,340 --> 01:09:51,620 to go in and take over Crimea. 671 01:09:51,620 --> 01:09:54,580 He got away with it, nobody did anything, 672 01:09:54,580 --> 01:09:56,580 and so, he started the ongoing 673 01:09:56,580 --> 01:09:58,500 conflict in Ukraine's east. 674 01:10:00,140 --> 01:10:02,660 - REPORTER: - For the last five-and-a-half years, 675 01:10:02,660 --> 01:10:05,140 Moscow has been arming, funding and many would say 676 01:10:05,140 --> 01:10:07,740 directly controlling fighters in two 677 01:10:07,740 --> 01:10:11,420 rebel-held parts of eastern Ukraine. 678 01:10:11,420 --> 01:10:14,060 - Putin was still denying that they're there, 679 01:10:14,060 --> 01:10:17,140 and saying, "Oh, these are separatists", and, "These are..." 680 01:10:17,140 --> 01:10:19,220 You know, "Russia's just a facilitator. 681 01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:21,660 "We're trying to reach a peace agreement here." Total nonsense. 682 01:10:24,420 --> 01:10:27,740 - When Zelensky took power, his number-one promise 683 01:10:27,740 --> 01:10:30,500 to the people of Ukraine was to bring peace in the Donbas, 684 01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:34,060 to find a resolution, and he knew that he could not do that 685 01:10:34,060 --> 01:10:35,780 without communicating with Putin. 686 01:10:37,060 --> 01:10:40,500 - Many Ukrainians think that Zelensky is being a little bit naive 687 01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:42,860 and that Putin can't be negotiated with. 688 01:11:22,900 --> 01:11:24,940 - In your previous work, you say 689 01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:27,020 you were popular, you were a star. 690 01:11:27,020 --> 01:11:29,300 Mostly, people loved you. 691 01:11:29,300 --> 01:11:34,420 You become President. By necessity, all politicians, much criticism. 692 01:11:34,420 --> 01:11:37,020 How did you cope? How did you deal with that? 693 01:11:37,020 --> 01:11:40,260 - It's a difficult moment because mostly, 694 01:11:40,260 --> 01:11:43,220 people loved me, that's true. 695 01:11:43,220 --> 01:11:45,900 And then, this is a new pool. 696 01:11:45,900 --> 01:11:47,940 HE LAUGHS 697 01:11:47,940 --> 01:11:51,660 I wasn't... I think at the very beginning, I wasn't ready 698 01:11:51,660 --> 01:11:54,140 to swim in such pool, yes. 699 01:11:54,140 --> 01:11:56,420 It's another part of life. 700 01:11:56,420 --> 01:11:58,620 But... But, er... 701 01:12:02,420 --> 01:12:04,140 But maybe... 702 01:12:05,900 --> 01:12:10,060 Maybe I have to do something. 703 01:12:10,060 --> 01:12:12,460 Maybe they will love me again. 704 01:12:27,660 --> 01:12:29,900 - So Zelensky heads to Paris, 705 01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:32,180 where he has his first and only 706 01:12:32,180 --> 01:12:34,340 meeting with Vladimir Putin. 707 01:12:36,420 --> 01:12:40,420 - Zelensky set out very early in his administration to talk to Putin 708 01:12:40,420 --> 01:12:43,900 face-to-face, look him in the eye, and say, "What do you want from us? 709 01:12:43,900 --> 01:12:45,900 "How can we end this war 710 01:12:45,900 --> 01:12:48,740 "that keeps sending our soldiers home in caskets?" 711 01:12:52,020 --> 01:12:55,900 The French and the Germans played the role of mediators. 712 01:12:59,140 --> 01:13:03,420 - Zelensky was always saying, "Look, while building my career, 713 01:13:03,420 --> 01:13:06,180 "I could negotiate and I could achieve results," 714 01:13:06,180 --> 01:13:10,740 and he hoped that Putin will be convinced. 715 01:13:42,100 --> 01:13:45,860 - CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK 716 01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:19,260 - There is this nervous atmosphere 717 01:14:19,260 --> 01:14:21,820 in the room, and then, we need to leave. 718 01:14:25,140 --> 01:14:27,540 And we were watching it on a screen 719 01:14:27,540 --> 01:14:29,740 and they were sitting in the neighbouring room. 720 01:14:54,780 --> 01:14:57,340 Zelensky's approach was like, 721 01:14:57,340 --> 01:15:01,420 "War is terrible, war is killing. 722 01:15:01,420 --> 01:15:04,140 "We are sitting here, let's just finish it. 723 01:15:04,140 --> 01:15:06,820 "We have the power to finish it." 724 01:15:06,820 --> 01:15:09,420 That was the major message of Zelensky. 725 01:15:10,900 --> 01:15:14,100 Putin tried to close the doors all the time. 726 01:15:14,100 --> 01:15:17,900 Like, "We're not there." Like, "There is no Russian troops there." 727 01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:53,340 - Putin flat out lied 728 01:15:53,340 --> 01:15:55,020 in the press conference, 729 01:15:55,020 --> 01:15:58,060 saying, "This is an internal Ukrainian matter. 730 01:15:58,060 --> 01:15:59,940 "Ukrainians need to settle this." 731 01:16:14,940 --> 01:16:18,660 I think this was a big eye-opener for Zelensky. 732 01:16:18,660 --> 01:16:21,660 He thought, I think, that everyone understood what Putin 733 01:16:21,660 --> 01:16:24,060 and Russian forces were doing in Ukraine, 734 01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:28,060 everyone's trying to resolve this, and instead, I think he realised 735 01:16:28,060 --> 01:16:30,900 that, actually, this is an effort of three sides 736 01:16:30,900 --> 01:16:33,900 putting pressure on Ukraine to give things away. 737 01:16:33,900 --> 01:16:35,900 It's a different game here. 738 01:16:38,380 --> 01:16:42,180 Neither Macron or Merkel said a word to contradict Putin. 739 01:17:06,140 --> 01:17:08,420 - There were a lot of things unresolved, 740 01:17:08,420 --> 01:17:12,500 but if we have these first steps already there, 741 01:17:12,500 --> 01:17:14,900 then perhaps you can continue, right? 742 01:17:14,900 --> 01:17:18,900 And Zelensky really believed that there will be other meeting. 743 01:17:21,420 --> 01:17:24,900 But Putin never wanted to meet Zelensky again. 744 01:17:29,420 --> 01:17:31,460 - INTERVIEWER: - Vladimir Putin, 745 01:17:31,460 --> 01:17:34,900 what do you think about his psychology? 746 01:17:34,900 --> 01:17:37,620 What's in... What's going through his head? 747 01:17:37,620 --> 01:17:40,900 - I had meeting with him, long meeting, 748 01:17:40,900 --> 01:17:44,420 in December 2019, in France... 749 01:17:45,420 --> 01:17:49,020 ..and, er, it's not about... 750 01:17:49,020 --> 01:17:52,660 He's not... He's not a person... 751 01:17:52,660 --> 01:17:55,420 I mean, that humanity. 752 01:17:55,420 --> 01:17:57,940 He has... It's not about this. It's like... 753 01:17:59,060 --> 01:18:03,420 ..people who just do the job. 754 01:18:03,420 --> 01:18:06,740 You know? Without any emotions. 755 01:18:06,740 --> 01:18:10,540 Without any, you know... It's like killers. Yes? 756 01:18:11,900 --> 01:18:14,300 It's just a job. 757 01:18:14,300 --> 01:18:16,020 What is the problem? 758 01:18:17,660 --> 01:18:19,180 That he lied... 759 01:18:20,180 --> 01:18:21,740 ..very much. 760 01:18:23,140 --> 01:18:27,660 For me, it's a part of my life, this job, and I really... 761 01:18:27,660 --> 01:18:30,900 I love Ukraine and I want, you know, peace, 762 01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:34,420 and we want to remember this period of time 763 01:18:34,420 --> 01:18:37,220 and want people to respect me. 764 01:18:37,220 --> 01:18:38,740 That's it. 765 01:18:38,740 --> 01:18:42,140 For these... And that's it. But this is a part of my life. 766 01:18:43,660 --> 01:18:45,900 Putin, for him, 767 01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:49,140 all this war is his life. 768 01:18:53,300 --> 01:18:55,700 REPORTER: - China says the number of people infected 769 01:18:55,700 --> 01:18:58,780 by a mysterious virus has more than tripled. 770 01:18:58,780 --> 01:19:02,820 Scientists say the virus is being spread by human-to-human contact, 771 01:19:02,820 --> 01:19:05,540 and that is especially worrisome... 772 01:19:07,660 --> 01:19:11,020 - Putin's story is a kind of dark fairy tale. 773 01:19:12,140 --> 01:19:14,980 I mean, this is a man turning 70, 774 01:19:14,980 --> 01:19:16,900 sees very few people, 775 01:19:16,900 --> 01:19:18,460 doesn't use the internet, 776 01:19:18,460 --> 01:19:20,300 he doesn't have a mobile phone. 777 01:19:20,300 --> 01:19:23,420 He relies on briefings from his close friends. 778 01:19:23,420 --> 01:19:26,420 We're talking about six, eight, ten people. 779 01:19:26,420 --> 01:19:29,700 And this isolation increased during the pandemic. 780 01:19:31,900 --> 01:19:34,540 He was holed up in his presidential palace... 781 01:19:35,540 --> 01:19:37,940 ..and he brooded. 782 01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:42,620 I've seen him scuba-dive 783 01:19:42,620 --> 01:19:44,660 to the bottom of the Mediterranean. 784 01:19:44,660 --> 01:19:47,140 I've sat in a room with him. I've tried, unsuccessfully, 785 01:19:47,140 --> 01:19:50,020 to ask some questions at press conferences. I never got picked. 786 01:19:50,020 --> 01:19:53,660 But what I can say is the most dangerous incarnation of Putin 787 01:19:53,660 --> 01:19:56,220 that we've ever seen is amateur historian Putin. 788 01:19:59,420 --> 01:20:01,060 - During lockdown, 789 01:20:01,060 --> 01:20:05,100 defence intelligence said he'd written an essay, and so we read it. 790 01:20:05,100 --> 01:20:07,340 It was like reading Mein Kampf. 791 01:20:08,900 --> 01:20:11,300 It basically tells us that the world is united 792 01:20:11,300 --> 01:20:13,260 around the ancient people of Rus... 793 01:20:14,260 --> 01:20:15,780 ..and these people need to be 794 01:20:15,780 --> 01:20:18,260 reunited. The Baltic states 795 01:20:18,260 --> 01:20:22,860 don't really exist. Even parts of Finland aren't really true. 796 01:20:22,860 --> 01:20:29,660 What he really showed was his desire to...build a greater Russia. 797 01:20:32,660 --> 01:20:35,660 - In the essay, Putin argued that Ukraine was never 798 01:20:35,660 --> 01:20:38,700 a nation or a state or a people. 799 01:20:38,700 --> 01:20:40,660 Actually, that's rubbish. 800 01:20:40,660 --> 01:20:43,740 Despite periods of being part of the Russian Empire, 801 01:20:43,740 --> 01:20:49,420 Ukraine always had a kind of strong democratic tradition. 802 01:20:49,420 --> 01:20:52,740 It was actually a sort of flourishing early civilisation, 803 01:20:52,740 --> 01:20:54,220 going back to the 9th century. 804 01:21:24,660 --> 01:21:28,980 Ask any Ukrainian, and they'll tell you Kyiv is older than Moscow. 805 01:21:30,140 --> 01:21:32,260 And back then, 1,000 years ago, 806 01:21:32,260 --> 01:21:34,660 Moscow was forest and bog. 807 01:21:38,140 --> 01:21:40,460 - The title of Vladimir Putin's essay 808 01:21:40,460 --> 01:21:44,620 was On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians. 809 01:21:46,420 --> 01:21:49,740 It sounds like the kind of thing you would glance at and toss aside 810 01:21:49,740 --> 01:21:52,180 but, actually, it's a manifesto for war. 811 01:22:24,900 --> 01:22:26,660 - REPORTER: - These could be the biggest 812 01:22:26,660 --> 01:22:28,660 exercises on Europe's border since 813 01:22:28,660 --> 01:22:30,780 the Cold War, to make sure that 814 01:22:30,780 --> 01:22:32,540 Russia's armed forces are ready for 815 01:22:32,540 --> 01:22:35,020 whatever threats, or opportunities, 816 01:22:35,020 --> 01:22:36,420 present themselves next. 817 01:23:08,420 --> 01:23:09,780 A massive show of force 818 01:23:09,780 --> 01:23:11,700 right on the border with Europe. 819 01:23:12,700 --> 01:23:14,500 A simulated counterattack 820 01:23:14,500 --> 01:23:17,020 of a scenario which they rehearse every four years. 821 01:23:19,420 --> 01:23:23,420 When they left vast amounts of weaponry close to the border... 822 01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:28,900 ..it effectively, to me, confirmed this was not normal. 823 01:23:31,420 --> 01:23:33,660 We learnt, from satellites, 824 01:23:33,660 --> 01:23:35,260 intelligence and evidence of 825 01:23:35,260 --> 01:23:39,580 mobile crematorium, which is a horrendous concept in itself. 826 01:23:40,900 --> 01:23:43,580 Crematorium to hide 827 01:23:43,580 --> 01:23:45,620 evidence of their own deaths. 828 01:23:48,420 --> 01:23:50,020 At the time of the September, 829 01:23:50,020 --> 01:23:51,660 I was busy trying to persuade 830 01:23:51,660 --> 01:23:53,340 within government that we needed 831 01:23:53,340 --> 01:23:54,740 to get on with it, and there was 832 01:23:54,740 --> 01:23:56,580 a resistance, because it might provoke. 833 01:23:56,580 --> 01:24:00,060 A lot of the argument would be, "Ooh, you don't want to escalate." 834 01:24:00,060 --> 01:24:03,700 And I would say, "The game has already started. The game's afoot." 835 01:25:22,420 --> 01:25:25,460 - Every year, for 20 years already, 836 01:25:25,460 --> 01:25:27,340 we make a New Year show. 837 01:25:35,740 --> 01:25:40,140 For 17 years before, we made fun of other Presidents 838 01:25:40,140 --> 01:25:43,900 and other politicians, and now him. 839 01:26:08,420 --> 01:26:11,460 Everything was changing in Ukraine. 840 01:26:11,460 --> 01:26:14,420 And I was... I really was scared for him 841 01:26:14,420 --> 01:26:16,940 because I didn't know what's going to happen. 842 01:26:20,420 --> 01:26:21,900 - The United States were saying, 843 01:26:21,900 --> 01:26:23,420 "The war is coming", 844 01:26:23,420 --> 01:26:27,300 Germany and France were saying, "This is just sabre-rattling". 845 01:26:27,300 --> 01:26:29,420 Different people come to your office. 846 01:26:29,420 --> 01:26:32,740 One says there will be a war, someone else says no. 847 01:26:32,740 --> 01:26:35,300 Third person says, "I don't care whether there will be a war 848 01:26:35,300 --> 01:26:38,900 "or there will not be a war, but our economy is suffering 849 01:26:38,900 --> 01:26:41,820 "just from the fact that we're talking about it." 850 01:26:41,820 --> 01:26:45,140 And everyone is smart, 851 01:26:45,140 --> 01:26:49,580 everyone is full of knowledge and analysis, 852 01:26:49,580 --> 01:26:51,300 but everyone is there in the room 853 01:26:51,300 --> 01:26:53,660 just to give advice to the President. 854 01:26:53,660 --> 01:26:57,420 And, in the end, all the responsibility was on him. 855 01:27:28,660 --> 01:27:31,220 - You were receiving intelligence 856 01:27:31,220 --> 01:27:33,260 about the potential of invasion 857 01:27:33,260 --> 01:27:38,420 with the President and discussing how to present this to the public. 858 01:27:39,460 --> 01:27:41,420 How did you make those decisions? 859 01:28:32,660 --> 01:28:38,620 - Can Russia categorically rule out the invasion of Ukraine? 860 01:28:38,620 --> 01:28:41,220 - We have no intention to do that, 861 01:28:41,220 --> 01:28:46,020 so it means that we have no intention to do that at all. 862 01:28:46,020 --> 01:28:49,060 And it has been said on different levels, of course. 863 01:28:49,060 --> 01:28:52,420 - OK, what, then, are the troops doing 864 01:28:52,420 --> 01:28:56,220 massed along the Ukrainian border with Russia? 865 01:28:56,220 --> 01:28:59,420 - Troops are exercising, and it is no secret 866 01:28:59,420 --> 01:29:02,900 that they are preparing to deter any kind of threat. 867 01:29:09,660 --> 01:29:12,420 - REPORTER: - The Ukrainian government is doing its best 868 01:29:12,420 --> 01:29:15,220 to reassure its people there is no cause for alarm, 869 01:29:15,220 --> 01:29:18,660 and that calming message is largely working on a population 870 01:29:18,660 --> 01:29:22,900 which is sceptical that the risk of war is as high as the West fears. 871 01:29:22,900 --> 01:29:26,420 But there is only one person who knows the fate of this country 872 01:29:26,420 --> 01:29:28,300 and, so far, President Putin 873 01:29:28,300 --> 01:29:31,900 is playing his cards close to his chest. 874 01:29:31,900 --> 01:29:35,660 - REPORTER: - The White House is calling the situation, meantime, quote, 875 01:29:35,660 --> 01:29:37,740 "Extremely dangerous". 876 01:29:37,740 --> 01:29:39,420 - There are two paths. 877 01:29:39,420 --> 01:29:42,420 There's a diplomatic path, there's the other path. It is up to 878 01:29:42,420 --> 01:29:45,420 the Russians to determine which path they're going to take. 879 01:29:45,420 --> 01:29:48,900 - We believe that diplomacy continues to be viable. 880 01:29:48,900 --> 01:29:52,660 There still remains a window to resolve this 881 01:29:52,660 --> 01:29:55,540 through dialogue and diplomacy. 882 01:30:04,140 --> 01:30:07,220 - The logic of the situation seems to be clear - 883 01:30:07,220 --> 01:30:09,660 that Putin has assembled such a colossal force... 884 01:30:10,900 --> 01:30:13,660 ..we think that the orders are already starting to be issued 885 01:30:13,660 --> 01:30:15,700 for people to take their forward positions. 886 01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:18,220 We read his crazy essay. We, we, we... 887 01:30:18,220 --> 01:30:19,900 He's obviously... 888 01:30:20,900 --> 01:30:23,780 Very, very difficult for him now to walk this thing back. 889 01:30:23,780 --> 01:30:26,660 - Nice to see you. How are you? - Thank you very, very much. 890 01:30:26,660 --> 01:30:30,220 Volodymyr Zelensky, he was in a very, very peculiar position. 891 01:30:30,220 --> 01:30:33,420 If he had sounded the alarm bell, you know, 892 01:30:33,420 --> 01:30:36,140 and sent out the whole of Ukraine into panic stations, 893 01:30:36,140 --> 01:30:39,660 that, paradoxically, would have helped achieve Putin's ends. 894 01:30:40,780 --> 01:30:43,740 You could tell that he was under terrific pressure, 895 01:30:43,740 --> 01:30:46,380 but it's not clear to either of us 896 01:30:46,380 --> 01:30:48,340 what is actually going to happen. 897 01:30:49,340 --> 01:30:52,220 It was one of those situations where I was trying to pump... 898 01:30:52,220 --> 01:30:54,380 I was sort of saying, "Come on, come on..." You know, 899 01:30:54,380 --> 01:30:57,860 "What do you really think is going to happen? What do you think 900 01:30:57,860 --> 01:31:00,060 "is really in Putin's mind?" And he was saying to me, 901 01:31:00,060 --> 01:31:01,900 "Well, what do you think is going to happen? Do you think 902 01:31:01,900 --> 01:31:06,940 "Putin's bluffing?" And I said I...we didn't know. 903 01:31:06,940 --> 01:31:10,660 - Mr President, do you believe that the Prime Minister 904 01:31:10,660 --> 01:31:14,780 and his American allies are exaggerating the threat from Russia? 905 01:31:45,140 --> 01:31:47,900 - During the press conference with Boris Johnson, 906 01:31:47,900 --> 01:31:51,500 I thought that Zelensky was perhaps 907 01:31:51,500 --> 01:31:54,500 not quite on top of events. That this great storm was coming 908 01:31:54,500 --> 01:31:57,100 and he was still, perhaps, looking the other way. 909 01:31:57,100 --> 01:31:59,020 I mean, one former diplomat I spoke to said that 910 01:31:59,020 --> 01:32:01,220 he's always two or three steps behind events. 911 01:32:01,220 --> 01:32:02,620 - We are free. 912 01:32:04,420 --> 01:32:07,340 - At the time, Zelensky's opinion poll ratings 913 01:32:07,340 --> 01:32:09,660 were slipping. They were going downwards. 914 01:32:37,420 --> 01:32:41,540 - At this work, you have to be honest. 915 01:32:43,660 --> 01:32:47,180 But, er... But, er... 916 01:32:51,020 --> 01:32:53,420 ..sometimes, you don't want, 917 01:32:53,420 --> 01:32:56,140 and sometimes, it's really very difficult. 918 01:32:56,140 --> 01:32:58,220 Just... Just difficult. 919 01:32:58,220 --> 01:33:01,500 There are some moments when you... 920 01:33:03,140 --> 01:33:07,420 ..when you understand that if you'll be honest, 921 01:33:07,420 --> 01:33:15,060 it will make so many, so many problems for people, or for you. 922 01:33:15,060 --> 01:33:18,020 I mean, we are part of society, so... 923 01:33:19,220 --> 01:33:21,540 It's...to be brave. 924 01:33:30,140 --> 01:33:33,900 - We flew on a RAF jet into Moscow. 925 01:33:34,980 --> 01:33:36,860 We were rushed in to the Ministry... 926 01:33:40,140 --> 01:33:42,700 ..with the Minister of Defence, Shoigu. 927 01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:44,300 - General. Thank you. 928 01:33:44,300 --> 01:33:46,420 - Gerasimov, Chief of Defence Staff. 929 01:33:50,140 --> 01:33:53,420 And they put on a display of the Arctic convoys 930 01:33:53,420 --> 01:33:56,140 and what we had done together. 931 01:33:56,140 --> 01:33:58,420 - HE SPEAKS RUSSIAN 932 01:33:58,420 --> 01:34:01,420 - The monument of all the countries 933 01:34:01,420 --> 01:34:03,980 which helped Russ...the USSR. 934 01:34:09,900 --> 01:34:13,900 - We had a good meeting. It was, you know, recorded and in public. 935 01:34:13,900 --> 01:34:17,460 None of us wish to be 936 01:34:17,460 --> 01:34:19,340 in an atmosphere of 937 01:34:19,340 --> 01:34:22,140 insecurity, anxiousness. 938 01:34:22,140 --> 01:34:25,620 I have buried too many soldiers in my time. 939 01:34:28,900 --> 01:34:31,740 And then we had an after-meeting, where the Chief of Defence Staff 940 01:34:31,740 --> 01:34:34,180 went with Gerasimov and I went with Shoigu. 941 01:34:34,180 --> 01:34:37,420 A fireside chat, I think it was called, or a one-to-one. 942 01:34:39,740 --> 01:34:42,260 I remember him saying, "We will not invade Ukraine." 943 01:34:44,900 --> 01:34:47,780 I think when a Defence Minister of such an armed force 944 01:34:47,780 --> 01:34:50,980 sits opposite you and says it with a straight face, 945 01:34:50,980 --> 01:34:53,380 you knew you were being lied to. 946 01:34:53,380 --> 01:34:55,740 I remember saying on the way out to someone, 947 01:34:55,740 --> 01:34:58,900 "Somewhere above me, in a room above where we've just sat, 948 01:34:58,900 --> 01:35:00,820 "somebody has got a map on the wall." 949 01:35:02,980 --> 01:35:04,980 - I believe you had a phone call with Putin. 950 01:35:07,900 --> 01:35:11,860 - It was one of those creepy phone calls of a slightly sort of, erm... 951 01:35:13,020 --> 01:35:14,300 ..er... 952 01:35:15,580 --> 01:35:19,980 ..with a sort of semi-satirical flavour - at least, from his side. 953 01:35:19,980 --> 01:35:23,220 He made this sort of slightly creepy remark about, erm, 954 01:35:23,220 --> 01:35:27,060 nuclear weapons and, you know, "I don't want to use a nuclear weapon 955 01:35:27,060 --> 01:35:29,660 "against you, Boris", or something like that. 956 01:35:29,660 --> 01:35:32,460 He was saying he was ruling out an invasion. 957 01:35:32,460 --> 01:35:34,900 "There'll be no..." You know, "Not going to happen". 958 01:35:36,900 --> 01:35:40,980 I kept saying to him that he would be nuts to invade. 959 01:35:40,980 --> 01:35:43,660 We kept coming back to this question of, what was the ultimate future 960 01:35:43,660 --> 01:35:47,140 of Ukraine? And I remember him saying to me, 961 01:35:47,140 --> 01:35:50,220 "Well...", you know, "..when is Ukraine going to join Nato?" 962 01:35:50,220 --> 01:35:53,660 And I said, "Well, look, not any time soon." 963 01:35:53,660 --> 01:35:56,740 And he said, "Not any time soon? What does that mean? 964 01:35:56,740 --> 01:35:59,740 "Is that not next month? Not next year? When does that mean?" 965 01:35:59,740 --> 01:36:02,580 And I said, "Well, it means not till...not for any time soon." 966 01:36:03,900 --> 01:36:06,020 But I couldn't say 967 01:36:06,020 --> 01:36:08,860 Ukraine will never...join Nato. 968 01:36:09,940 --> 01:36:12,380 We had to insist 969 01:36:12,380 --> 01:36:15,380 on the right of the Ukrainians 970 01:36:15,380 --> 01:36:17,140 to choose their future. 971 01:37:10,660 --> 01:37:13,740 - Quite a few people thought that Zelensky was not up to it, 972 01:37:13,740 --> 01:37:17,820 actually, that he didn't have the fight or the kind of wisdom. 973 01:37:19,580 --> 01:37:22,660 What sort of struck me, as a kind of writer, 974 01:37:22,660 --> 01:37:25,300 as an observer of people and things, is I would walk round 975 01:37:25,300 --> 01:37:28,140 the centre of Kyiv and there were no sandbags. 976 01:37:28,140 --> 01:37:31,300 There were no preparations. There were no tank traps. 977 01:37:31,300 --> 01:37:34,380 There were no checkpoints. There was no panic. 978 01:37:36,140 --> 01:37:37,820 - REPORTER: - In this historic city, 979 01:37:37,820 --> 01:37:39,140 where they are being told 980 01:37:39,140 --> 01:37:42,660 by Western leaders to expect war at any moment, 981 01:37:42,660 --> 01:37:45,500 they are busy, and they are calm, 982 01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:47,620 and they are dancing. 983 01:37:52,660 --> 01:37:56,980 - Was this a clever strategy by Zelensky to fool the Russians 984 01:37:56,980 --> 01:37:59,740 into thinking the Ukrainians were totally unprepared... 985 01:38:01,860 --> 01:38:03,900 ..or was it, actually, that Ukrainians 986 01:38:03,900 --> 01:38:06,460 were, on some military level, unprepared? 987 01:38:25,180 --> 01:38:27,580 - There are more and more Russian troops on the border 988 01:38:27,580 --> 01:38:30,180 every single day. The White House is telling 989 01:38:30,180 --> 01:38:33,420 American citizens inside Ukraine to get out now. 990 01:38:33,420 --> 01:38:35,380 - Depart immediately. 991 01:38:35,380 --> 01:38:38,100 We want to be crystal clear on this point. 992 01:38:38,100 --> 01:38:40,340 - And all day, we have seen a flurry of countries 993 01:38:40,340 --> 01:38:42,380 with the exact same message - "Get out". 994 01:38:48,700 --> 01:38:51,220 Secretary of State Antony Blinken just announcing 995 01:38:51,220 --> 01:38:54,300 that the United States will be closing their embassy 996 01:38:54,300 --> 01:38:56,700 in the capital city of Ukraine. 997 01:38:58,900 --> 01:39:02,580 - I was sort of sitting in the front row of a press conference. 998 01:39:02,580 --> 01:39:04,580 - Please, let's stick to the scheme, 999 01:39:04,580 --> 01:39:07,620 with one question from each journalist. 1000 01:39:07,620 --> 01:39:09,660 - Sorry. Erm... Thank you very much. 1001 01:39:12,660 --> 01:39:16,300 I asked Zelensky, I said, "Look, the foreign ambassadors are leaving." 1002 01:39:16,300 --> 01:39:19,420 The American ambassador had moved west, the British ambassador 1003 01:39:19,420 --> 01:39:21,980 had followed. Was that the right decision? 1004 01:39:52,420 --> 01:39:56,300 I'll never forget, he said, "We do not have a Titanic situation here." 1005 01:39:57,660 --> 01:40:00,140 It's curious, because you think about the Titanic 1006 01:40:00,140 --> 01:40:02,660 and you sort of think, is the Titanic Ukraine, 1007 01:40:02,660 --> 01:40:05,140 heading towards the great Russian iceberg? 1008 01:40:05,140 --> 01:40:08,060 Or is, actually, Russia the Titanic - 1009 01:40:08,060 --> 01:40:12,140 this hubristic, arrogant, superior nation - 1010 01:40:12,140 --> 01:40:16,580 that, unwittingly, is crashing towards the big disaster? 1011 01:40:18,420 --> 01:40:21,420 - Russian troops currently have Ukraine surrounded. 1012 01:40:21,420 --> 01:40:24,740 We believe that they will target Ukraine's capital, Kyiv, 1013 01:40:24,740 --> 01:40:28,020 a city of 2.8 million innocent people. 1014 01:41:19,900 --> 01:41:21,460 - He had his excuse. 1015 01:41:22,660 --> 01:41:26,420 Putin was creating a pretext. 1016 01:41:28,660 --> 01:41:32,060 - REPORTER: - The two regions in question are Donetsk and Luhansk, 1017 01:41:32,060 --> 01:41:36,140 and diplomats warn that recognising these as independent states 1018 01:41:36,140 --> 01:41:39,660 would give Russia the justification it wants to send in troops. 1019 01:42:05,420 --> 01:42:07,780 It was like a kind of loyalty test. 1020 01:42:10,540 --> 01:42:14,580 There was Putin, sitting like a kind of reproving headmaster, 1021 01:42:14,580 --> 01:42:18,980 surrounded by kind of white and gilt, and there was his government. 1022 01:42:18,980 --> 01:42:21,900 He was asking them to endorse his plan. 1023 01:43:06,860 --> 01:43:08,220 Sergey Naryshkin, the head of 1024 01:43:08,220 --> 01:43:09,900 the Foreign Intelligence Service, 1025 01:43:09,900 --> 01:43:11,820 when he's asked to make this kind of oath of allegiance... 1026 01:43:13,780 --> 01:43:14,940 ..fluffs his lines. 1027 01:44:34,660 --> 01:44:37,860 What's clear from this is they are all terrified of him. 1028 01:44:37,860 --> 01:44:40,580 Absolutely terrified. 1029 01:45:38,180 --> 01:45:41,140 - Putin, I think he's not alone. 1030 01:45:41,140 --> 01:45:46,820 I think there are some similar guys in the world. But... 1031 01:45:49,420 --> 01:45:55,420 But not everybody has such, you know, such, erm... 1032 01:45:56,660 --> 01:46:00,740 ..such chance for their selves, yeah, 1033 01:46:00,740 --> 01:46:07,580 to open all their, you know, negative, or all their evil dreams. 1034 01:46:07,580 --> 01:46:13,940 Yes. That is the problem, that the West didn't recognise him before 1035 01:46:13,940 --> 01:46:15,500 and didn't stop him. 1036 01:46:22,900 --> 01:46:25,740 - Zelensky sent me to Washington 1037 01:46:25,740 --> 01:46:27,980 to talk eye-to-eye 1038 01:46:27,980 --> 01:46:32,660 to the US officials, to get the fullest possible picture 1039 01:46:32,660 --> 01:46:35,060 of where we are heading to - the timeline. 1040 01:46:37,180 --> 01:46:40,660 And, most importantly, what would be the reaction of the United States, 1041 01:46:40,660 --> 01:46:42,100 what would they be doing? 1042 01:46:42,100 --> 01:46:46,420 - Mr Kuleba, it's an honour to welcome you back to the Pentagon 1043 01:46:46,420 --> 01:46:49,580 at this critical, critical moment in history. 1044 01:46:49,580 --> 01:46:52,300 - I am on a diplomatic mission here, but... 1045 01:46:52,300 --> 01:46:56,900 - We had a series of briefings at the very highest level. 1046 01:46:56,900 --> 01:47:00,140 We were told that there was a good prospect 1047 01:47:00,140 --> 01:47:02,900 that there would be an invasion, 1048 01:47:02,900 --> 01:47:05,660 and some...some speculation 1049 01:47:05,660 --> 01:47:08,220 about when that would happen. 1050 01:47:08,220 --> 01:47:10,740 Among the agencies of intelligence, 1051 01:47:10,740 --> 01:47:13,660 there was a high level of confidence about this. 1052 01:47:15,140 --> 01:47:17,140 - A lot of the observers thought 1053 01:47:17,140 --> 01:47:18,900 that Kyiv was going to fall, 1054 01:47:18,900 --> 01:47:21,420 that President Zelensky was going to fall, 1055 01:47:21,420 --> 01:47:24,580 and that Ukraine was going to fail to exist as a country. 1056 01:47:25,900 --> 01:47:27,700 - Russia was determined. 1057 01:47:27,700 --> 01:47:30,140 It outnumbered Ukraine on every level. 1058 01:47:30,140 --> 01:47:33,500 I mean, its air force outnumbered Ukraine 13 to one. 1059 01:47:34,740 --> 01:47:37,660 - Who knows, perhaps they thought I was the last Ukrainian 1060 01:47:37,660 --> 01:47:41,340 they might ever receive in the White House. 1061 01:47:42,900 --> 01:47:45,660 President Biden, he showed me around, 1062 01:47:45,660 --> 01:47:48,220 and there is a room behind Oval Office... 1063 01:47:49,460 --> 01:47:53,420 ..and I asked him, I said, "Listen, I... 1064 01:47:53,420 --> 01:47:58,140 "I must tell you that I feel torn apart... 1065 01:47:59,140 --> 01:48:05,420 "..between two choices - whether I have to be a minister or a father 1066 01:48:05,420 --> 01:48:09,540 "when it comes to the need to evacuate my children, 1067 01:48:09,540 --> 01:48:13,500 "because now, I realise, more than ever, 1068 01:48:13,500 --> 01:48:17,700 "that the war is...the attack on Ukraine is going to happen." 1069 01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:21,140 And he looked at me, he paused, like, for a second, 1070 01:48:21,140 --> 01:48:23,660 looked straight in my eyes, 1071 01:48:23,660 --> 01:48:26,460 and he said, "Be a father". 1072 01:48:29,140 --> 01:48:34,380 That was it. I sent text to my dad, I told him, 1073 01:48:34,380 --> 01:48:38,380 "Pack yourself, pack kids - you're leaving Kyiv tonight." 1074 01:48:41,900 --> 01:48:44,780 - I was very threatened, of course. 1075 01:48:44,780 --> 01:48:46,780 It felt like it's really going to happen. 1076 01:48:51,060 --> 01:48:54,300 And I took my kids, my family, 1077 01:48:54,300 --> 01:48:57,660 and I went to...western Ukraine. 1078 01:48:57,660 --> 01:49:01,900 I was in a rather safe place, and the only thing 1079 01:49:01,900 --> 01:49:08,340 that I remember about that, I was very scared for him. 1080 01:49:12,700 --> 01:49:16,420 I mean, I knew that he was a name. 1081 01:49:16,420 --> 01:49:19,780 They wanted him. They want to kill him. 1082 01:49:24,140 --> 01:49:26,900 - I was in Kyiv on February the 23rd. 1083 01:49:26,900 --> 01:49:30,060 It was normal. Bizarrely normal. 1084 01:49:30,060 --> 01:49:32,660 People out and about, people in restaurants. 1085 01:49:32,660 --> 01:49:36,660 I walked out into the street and I took a call from a contact of mine, 1086 01:49:36,660 --> 01:49:39,060 a Ukrainian contact of mine, very well-placed, 1087 01:49:39,060 --> 01:49:42,060 who just said a few words - "The invasion will begin at 4am." 1088 01:49:44,980 --> 01:49:46,820 - EXPLOSIONS 1089 01:49:46,820 --> 01:49:48,660 SIREN WAILS 1090 01:49:48,660 --> 01:49:50,100 Sounds. 1091 01:49:51,140 --> 01:49:53,300 EXPLOSION 1092 01:49:53,300 --> 01:49:56,740 Sounds of missiles, of bombing. 1093 01:49:56,740 --> 01:49:58,660 SIREN WAILS 1094 01:50:03,900 --> 01:50:05,660 EXPLOSION 1095 01:50:14,420 --> 01:50:16,140 The phone rings. I've got the ring 1096 01:50:16,140 --> 01:50:19,340 from intelligence to Army, 1097 01:50:19,340 --> 01:50:26,420 and they said that we...attacked by Russian. 1098 01:50:26,420 --> 01:50:29,140 We attacked from the north. 1099 01:50:29,140 --> 01:50:31,420 It was first missiles from Belarus. 1100 01:50:33,740 --> 01:50:35,420 EXPLOSION 1101 01:51:20,140 --> 01:51:23,420 Said to my wife she has to be ready 1102 01:51:23,420 --> 01:51:26,900 and, "You will come to me, to my office, 1103 01:51:26,900 --> 01:51:31,900 "and please tell children that Russia attacked us." 1104 01:51:33,900 --> 01:51:36,940 It was very quickly. Very quickly. 1105 01:51:36,940 --> 01:51:40,780 And I was here, and I was the first here in my office. 1106 01:51:45,420 --> 01:51:48,420 - I'd woken on the morning of the 24th very early, 1107 01:51:48,420 --> 01:51:50,460 talked to Volodymyr. 1108 01:51:50,460 --> 01:51:53,060 It's just a sort of surreal conversation, 1109 01:51:53,060 --> 01:51:55,220 and he describes the invasion. 1110 01:51:55,220 --> 01:51:57,140 Where it's happening. 1111 01:51:57,140 --> 01:52:01,060 Er, the scale of it, which seemed to be huge. 1112 01:52:01,060 --> 01:52:03,140 - EXPLOSION 1113 01:52:22,140 --> 01:52:23,900 - You know, like, I was sleeping. 1114 01:52:26,860 --> 01:52:29,100 5am, I think, I got a call, 1115 01:52:29,100 --> 01:52:31,100 "It's started. Come over." 1116 01:52:32,420 --> 01:52:34,060 I go to the office. 1117 01:52:34,060 --> 01:52:36,340 And then, I was driving. The red signals... 1118 01:52:36,340 --> 01:52:39,900 Through the street, it's about... Normally, it's 40 minutes' drive, 1119 01:52:39,900 --> 01:52:42,500 but I drove there in 18 minutes, I believe. 1120 01:52:43,620 --> 01:52:45,300 - EXPLOSION 1121 01:52:45,300 --> 01:52:47,900 - On my path, I saw explosions. 1122 01:52:48,900 --> 01:52:51,620 When I came to the office, there were six people. 1123 01:52:51,620 --> 01:52:54,900 We did not have this, you know, situation where we are in this room 1124 01:52:54,900 --> 01:52:57,580 where you see everything in real time with cameras. 1125 01:52:57,580 --> 01:53:00,420 It was all, you know, pieces of information coming to us, 1126 01:53:00,420 --> 01:53:02,900 so we could not really recognise in the beginning 1127 01:53:02,900 --> 01:53:05,380 the size of the problem. 1128 01:53:07,140 --> 01:53:09,140 - I took a call from a contact of mine 1129 01:53:09,140 --> 01:53:10,980 inside the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry, who said, 1130 01:53:10,980 --> 01:53:13,500 "You're going to have to move hotel. There are going to be street battles 1131 01:53:13,500 --> 01:53:15,980 "outside your hotel. Get out." 1132 01:53:17,420 --> 01:53:19,300 - EXPLOSIONS 1133 01:53:22,660 --> 01:53:24,980 - There were millions of people leaving. 1134 01:53:24,980 --> 01:53:26,700 The highways were full. 1135 01:53:35,900 --> 01:53:37,620 It was like millions of atoms had 1136 01:53:37,620 --> 01:53:39,500 been shaken and violently agitated. 1137 01:53:40,660 --> 01:53:43,420 It did feel like the end of days, 1138 01:53:43,420 --> 01:53:45,100 and probably, the whole of Ukraine 1139 01:53:45,100 --> 01:53:46,340 will be swallowed up. 1140 01:53:46,340 --> 01:53:47,700 Everyone was having these 1141 01:53:47,700 --> 01:53:49,900 existential conversations - "Do I stay? Do I go?" 1142 01:54:27,420 --> 01:54:29,340 - We came to the shelter. 1143 01:54:29,340 --> 01:54:32,300 We had this communication device. It's a secure communication, 1144 01:54:32,300 --> 01:54:35,980 like a suitcase or something, with the video conferencing. 1145 01:54:35,980 --> 01:54:39,660 Er, US Embassy and the State Department, basically, 1146 01:54:39,660 --> 01:54:42,740 and the State Department said, "We prepared the helicopter", 1147 01:54:42,740 --> 01:54:45,180 so they kind of planned the evacuation operation. 1148 01:54:45,180 --> 01:54:48,060 - At this stage, I'm thinking, we're going to have to get 1149 01:54:48,060 --> 01:54:50,900 Volodymyr Zelensky to a place of safety, 1150 01:54:50,900 --> 01:54:54,660 where he can go into some sort of either internal 1151 01:54:54,660 --> 01:54:58,140 or external exile and mastermind a resistance. 1152 01:55:02,420 --> 01:55:06,420 - The security came and said, like, "We have bulletproof intel 1153 01:55:06,420 --> 01:55:10,900 "that...", you know, like, "..we're going to be surrounded 1154 01:55:10,900 --> 01:55:12,900 "within 40 minutes or so, 1155 01:55:12,900 --> 01:55:16,380 "so we have only 15 minutes to go, if we decide to go." 1156 01:55:16,380 --> 01:55:20,140 Zelensky brought us. There was the Prime Minister, Yermak, Sybiha... 1157 01:55:20,140 --> 01:55:23,060 There was, like, five guys, or six guys. He says, like, "Listen, 1158 01:55:23,060 --> 01:55:26,420 "everybody has his own family, his own life, so I'm not judging you. 1159 01:55:26,420 --> 01:55:28,860 "If you decide to leave now, leave now." 1160 01:55:31,140 --> 01:55:33,660 He says, like, "If we are not here, 1161 01:55:33,660 --> 01:55:36,060 "people will stop fighting." 1162 01:55:36,060 --> 01:55:37,540 It was a real decision... 1163 01:55:38,580 --> 01:55:40,020 ..between death and life. 1164 01:56:25,140 --> 01:56:28,140 - I think when the history of the 21st century is written, 1165 01:56:28,140 --> 01:56:31,060 that that is probably the most powerful short video of our time. 1166 01:56:32,420 --> 01:56:36,060 He was going to stay, and he was going to die. 1167 01:56:39,420 --> 01:56:42,420 He went from being a good leader to being a great leader, 1168 01:56:42,420 --> 01:56:44,900 to being Winston Churchill with an iPhone. 1169 01:57:19,660 --> 01:57:21,780 - I... I was not surprised. 1170 01:57:21,780 --> 01:57:23,380 I know him. 1171 01:57:25,220 --> 01:57:26,980 It's his personality. 1172 01:57:43,140 --> 01:57:45,020 - To find out more about Ukraine 1173 01:57:45,020 --> 01:57:46,660 and some of the influential people 1174 01:57:46,660 --> 01:57:48,340 whose stories have shaped it, 1175 01:57:48,340 --> 01:57:51,900 go to bbc.co.uk/zelensky, 1176 01:57:51,900 --> 01:57:55,740 and follow the links to the Open University's interactive gallery. 1177 01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:48,120 SIREN WAILS 1178 01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,200 EXPLOSION 1179 01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:01,280 - When you were told that your husband was target number one 1180 02:00:01,280 --> 02:00:04,880 for the Russian Army, what did that do to your mind? 1181 02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:46,640 - Volodymyr Zelensky! 1182 02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:48,280 - CHEERING 1183 02:01:49,400 --> 02:01:53,280 - He was extraordinarily popular. He impressed immediately. Like, "Wow!" 1184 02:01:57,960 --> 02:01:59,480 - He played the kind of character 1185 02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:02,120 that Ukraine was dreaming about. 1186 02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:12,200 - Ukraine is the place where the destiny 1187 02:02:12,200 --> 02:02:14,400 of this century will be hammered out. 1188 02:02:15,640 --> 02:02:17,960 - EXPLOSION 1189 02:02:17,960 --> 02:02:19,920 - We're going to be surrounded 1190 02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:22,120 within 40 minutes or so. 1191 02:02:24,400 --> 02:02:27,880 - This is a threat to democracy for the world. 1192 02:02:29,880 --> 02:02:31,600 Imagine... 1193 02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:33,800 Imagine being in that situation. 1194 02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:39,040 - I think it's the President 1195 02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:42,200 who can really tell this story. 1196 02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:17,400 - EXPLOSION 1197 02:03:20,600 --> 02:03:22,600 SIREN WAILS 1198 02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:50,960 - Security came and said, like, 1199 02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:52,520 "You have to go to the shelter." 1200 02:03:53,640 --> 02:03:57,520 Zelensky said, like, "Number-one thing that we need..." 1201 02:03:57,520 --> 02:03:59,000 He said, "I don't need machine guns. 1202 02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:02,280 "One or two more will not help you if...", you know, like, 1203 02:04:02,280 --> 02:04:04,720 "..but make sure we have another Starlink, 1204 02:04:04,720 --> 02:04:07,720 "because if we lose internet, this is going to be a problem." 1205 02:04:07,720 --> 02:04:10,000 Because we needed to communicate all the time 1206 02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:11,640 and we needed internet for this. 1207 02:04:32,720 --> 02:04:35,880 Here, it's total uncertainty. Totally. 1208 02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:38,880 Nobody knows what to do, what is the right way to do. 1209 02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:41,600 Nobody can teach you, mentor you, or whatever. 1210 02:05:32,560 --> 02:05:35,880 Every five minutes, you'd get a call from somebody like 1211 02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:40,280 President of United States, you know, France, Norway - you name it. 1212 02:05:40,280 --> 02:05:42,880 It was all in our, you know, one room. 1213 02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:47,040 When you get a call from one person, it's like, "Macron is calling." 1214 02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:49,640 "OK, tell him I'll call him back in five minutes." 1215 02:05:54,120 --> 02:05:57,880 - ZELENSKY: Russia, that is very terrible, what they do. 1216 02:05:57,880 --> 02:05:59,680 So, you know, they are now 1217 02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:01,400 in some more cities. 1218 02:06:01,400 --> 02:06:03,400 The centres of some regions. 1219 02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:05,840 They have tanks, airplanes. 1220 02:06:05,840 --> 02:06:07,400 Already, they are there, 1221 02:06:07,400 --> 02:06:09,200 and now they're in Kyiv. 1222 02:06:09,200 --> 02:06:11,720 We are fighting in Kyiv, Emmanuel. 1223 02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:18,120 - They are with special forces 1224 02:06:18,120 --> 02:06:20,400 and helicopters, or...? 1225 02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:24,120 - Yes, aeroplanes and helicopters, everything. 1226 02:06:24,120 --> 02:06:26,120 We see it in video. 1227 02:06:26,120 --> 02:06:29,080 We see it, everything. A lot of them. 1228 02:06:30,880 --> 02:06:35,160 - Do you have an idea on how many civilians were killed already? 1229 02:06:35,160 --> 02:06:37,360 - No. Thousands. 1230 02:06:39,120 --> 02:06:41,400 - And what about you? 1231 02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:43,280 Are you in security yourself? 1232 02:06:43,280 --> 02:06:45,120 - I think so. 1233 02:06:45,120 --> 02:06:47,200 - Are you sure, or do you think so? 1234 02:06:47,200 --> 02:06:49,400 - I think so, I'm sure. 1235 02:06:51,120 --> 02:06:56,040 I think nobody is in safety situation now in Kyiv. 1236 02:06:56,040 --> 02:06:59,880 I think so because we are in the circle of Russian Army. 1237 02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:06,400 - So, which means that they sent special forces... 1238 02:07:07,480 --> 02:07:09,520 ..everywhere in Kyiv? 1239 02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:13,720 - Everywhere. In Kyiv, in Odesa, 1240 02:07:13,720 --> 02:07:15,640 and from Belorussia. 1241 02:07:15,640 --> 02:07:20,200 So we fight everywhere on our territory. Everywhere in troops. 1242 02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:28,800 We wouldn't imagine that... It's not the same like it was in 2014. 1243 02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:33,400 So, it's much better... Much, much, much more, I mean. 1244 02:07:33,400 --> 02:07:35,280 It's much more. - Mm. 1245 02:07:35,280 --> 02:07:38,240 No, it's clear. It's total war. 1246 02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:39,720 - Yes, total war. 1247 02:07:40,800 --> 02:07:42,400 - OK. Erm... 1248 02:07:43,880 --> 02:07:46,880 OK. - Yes. 1249 02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:52,040 So, I think, Emmanuel, it's very important you to speak with Putin 1250 02:07:52,040 --> 02:07:55,920 and very important to make an anti-war coalition. 1251 02:07:55,920 --> 02:08:00,720 We are sure that European leaders and Biden can connect 1252 02:08:00,720 --> 02:08:04,480 and they call him and say, "Stop", he will stop. 1253 02:08:04,480 --> 02:08:06,560 He will listen you. 1254 02:08:06,560 --> 02:08:11,120 And what I want to say, just stop the war and speak with him. 1255 02:08:11,120 --> 02:08:14,720 - But he will... He will ask where you are ready to go. 1256 02:08:16,120 --> 02:08:19,880 You're ready to sit down around the table and start negotiating? 1257 02:08:19,880 --> 02:08:23,480 - Of course. - OK. - We have to. Of course, we have to. 1258 02:08:27,400 --> 02:08:31,120 - OK. Volodymyr, as soon as I have feedback from this side, 1259 02:08:31,120 --> 02:08:35,160 I will do it, and let me refer to you on what we can do. 1260 02:08:36,160 --> 02:08:40,720 I mean, for sure, very few things on the Russian side, 1261 02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:45,040 but let me see with my people what could make sense to help 1262 02:08:45,040 --> 02:08:46,640 on this issue. 1263 02:08:46,640 --> 02:08:49,440 - OK, thank you. - Now, take care. 1264 02:08:49,440 --> 02:08:51,720 - Thank you. Bye. - Take care. 1265 02:09:02,840 --> 02:09:04,480 - Oui. 1266 02:09:04,480 --> 02:09:05,520 Bon... 1267 02:09:33,400 --> 02:09:37,600 - SIREN WAILS 1268 02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:46,640 I made a lot of different decisions quickly those day. 1269 02:09:46,640 --> 02:09:49,720 It was the longest day, I think, of my life. 1270 02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:51,640 The longest one. 1271 02:09:51,640 --> 02:09:53,080 Yeah. 1272 02:09:53,080 --> 02:09:57,120 I'm really thankful that I have such... 1273 02:09:58,640 --> 02:10:00,200 ..such... 1274 02:10:01,400 --> 02:10:07,400 ..a possibility to...to do what I can for Ukraine. 1275 02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:11,280 I wanted very much to do something, 1276 02:10:11,280 --> 02:10:12,720 but I've got... 1277 02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:17,560 ..this chance to do everything. 1278 02:11:01,120 --> 02:11:02,560 SIREN WAILS 1279 02:11:04,880 --> 02:11:07,200 - Zelensky started to communicate, 1280 02:11:07,200 --> 02:11:09,360 to speak out, and actually 1281 02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:12,320 address the Ukrainians, 1282 02:11:12,320 --> 02:11:14,280 with his own tone 1283 02:11:14,280 --> 02:11:19,000 and with his own, you know, ability to feel empathy. 1284 02:12:13,120 --> 02:12:15,040 - CHILD CRIES 1285 02:12:23,160 --> 02:12:27,280 REPORTER: - Putin's forces are advancing from the north, the east 1286 02:12:27,280 --> 02:12:32,320 and the south, and the capital, Kyiv, is now under direct threat. 1287 02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:38,520 - Everybody in the country started to be prepared for the fight. 1288 02:12:39,640 --> 02:12:41,680 We started to give away the weapons on the street. 1289 02:12:41,680 --> 02:12:45,320 - REPORTER: - The Ukrainian government is literally handing out guns 1290 02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:47,880 to citizens, and authorities are encouraging people 1291 02:12:47,880 --> 02:12:50,960 to make their own Molotov cocktails and prepare for what could be 1292 02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:52,640 a long, ugly insurgency. 1293 02:12:52,640 --> 02:12:54,040 - Slava Ukraini. 1294 02:12:59,880 --> 02:13:03,000 - Everybody wanted to fight Russia. I saw 1295 02:13:03,000 --> 02:13:05,600 old ladies making camouflage nets, 1296 02:13:05,600 --> 02:13:06,960 students bottling Molotov cocktails. 1297 02:13:08,040 --> 02:13:12,840 - Nobody thought that this would be how we would spend our weekend. 1298 02:13:12,840 --> 02:13:16,200 Like, nobody thought. But now, we're doing this, 1299 02:13:16,200 --> 02:13:20,120 and it seems like the only important thing to do now. 1300 02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:23,960 - At first, erm, we were scared. 1301 02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:25,720 Really scared. 1302 02:13:25,720 --> 02:13:28,640 But now, we are ready to fight. 1303 02:13:28,640 --> 02:13:32,120 And, like, fight like hell, so... 1304 02:13:32,120 --> 02:13:34,160 - APPLAUSE 1305 02:14:16,400 --> 02:14:19,520 REPORTER: - All around the city, they are building defences. 1306 02:14:21,080 --> 02:14:25,400 The streets are scattered with scrap-metal spikes and tyres 1307 02:14:25,400 --> 02:14:28,600 and huge metal anti-tank hedgehogs. 1308 02:14:36,240 --> 02:14:37,800 - Zelensky had transformed. 1309 02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:39,360 He looked, not like a soldier, 1310 02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:41,960 but he looked like a civilian volunteer. 1311 02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,400 Bear in mind that his team, a lot of them are showrunners. 1312 02:14:45,400 --> 02:14:47,400 They worked on Servant of the People. 1313 02:14:47,400 --> 02:14:49,640 They understand TV, they understand how you tell a story. 1314 02:14:49,640 --> 02:14:53,320 I think that was also a way that he brought everyone with him. 1315 02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:55,400 - EXPLOSION 1316 02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:59,400 - The world leaders were frozen... 1317 02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:02,520 ..in decision-making. 1318 02:16:02,520 --> 02:16:04,400 I spoke to Zelensky. 1319 02:16:04,400 --> 02:16:08,880 He said, like, "If we cannot reach properly to the leaders, 1320 02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:13,040 "then we have to reach out to their voters and they will listen." 1321 02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:15,400 That was his... That was calculated. 1322 02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:17,560 He said, like, "We have to wake them up." 1323 02:16:21,400 --> 02:16:24,800 - REPORTER: - So, in the past hour, we've heard that President Zelensky 1324 02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:26,840 of Ukraine is going to address the European Parliament. 1325 02:16:26,840 --> 02:16:29,600 - APPLAUSE 1326 02:17:03,640 --> 02:17:06,560 - I think his acting skills, 1327 02:17:06,560 --> 02:17:08,360 of course, helped him, 1328 02:17:08,360 --> 02:17:10,640 but he was... 1329 02:17:10,640 --> 02:17:15,040 Er, the main reason of his success is that 1330 02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:17,080 he was sincere. 1331 02:17:41,400 --> 02:17:43,200 - He was focused. He pressured 1332 02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:45,200 the international community, 1333 02:17:45,200 --> 02:17:47,240 he embarrassed them, if he had to. 1334 02:18:08,360 --> 02:18:10,120 - APPLAUSE 1335 02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,320 - When a few countries were dithering, 1336 02:18:19,320 --> 02:18:23,360 Zelensky was punchy and...didn't let them off. 1337 02:18:23,360 --> 02:18:26,640 - And our Union, for the first time ever, 1338 02:18:26,640 --> 02:18:29,880 is using the European budget to purchase and deliver 1339 02:18:29,880 --> 02:18:35,200 military equipment to a country that is under attack. 1340 02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:36,880 - APPLAUSE 1341 02:18:44,800 --> 02:18:46,920 - You now have the floor, President. 1342 02:18:46,920 --> 02:18:49,200 - CHEERING AND APPLAUSE 1343 02:19:14,400 --> 02:19:17,000 - The back of my neck started sort of tingling 1344 02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:20,200 because, of course, he referenced Shakespeare. "To be, or not to be". 1345 02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:22,640 And, of course, those were Ukraine's options. 1346 02:19:22,640 --> 02:19:27,760 You know, to be a free, proud, democratic, successful, 1347 02:19:27,760 --> 02:19:31,480 Westward-orientated country, or to be a satellite of Russia - 1348 02:19:31,480 --> 02:19:34,800 to become Putin's slaves, in effect. To be, or not to be. 1349 02:20:11,280 --> 02:20:16,280 I think he has a great gift of, erm, 1350 02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:20,280 both inspiring sympathy, 1351 02:20:20,280 --> 02:20:25,480 but also, being fantastically optimistic. 1352 02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:47,040 - APPLAUSE 1353 02:20:55,200 --> 02:20:57,120 CLAPPING AND CHEERING 1354 02:21:05,280 --> 02:21:08,960 - Because he came from TV comedy shows 1355 02:21:08,960 --> 02:21:11,520 that everybody can identify with, 1356 02:21:11,520 --> 02:21:14,640 he struck a chord with the global public 1357 02:21:14,640 --> 02:21:18,120 in a way that no other Ukrainian leader could have done. 1358 02:21:18,120 --> 02:21:20,160 - CHEERING 1359 02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:26,880 I brought from those time to this job 1360 02:21:26,880 --> 02:21:31,960 this communication with the people, because you have to try. 1361 02:21:31,960 --> 02:21:34,120 I really... 1362 02:21:35,400 --> 02:21:39,120 ..loved people because I communicated with them. 1363 02:21:39,120 --> 02:21:41,880 And if you don't love, 1364 02:21:41,880 --> 02:21:43,760 you will be tired. 1365 02:21:43,760 --> 02:21:45,720 CROWD: - Heroiam slava! 1366 02:21:47,400 --> 02:21:50,240 - Zelensky's ability to communicate secured 1367 02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:53,200 the level of support, the number of weapons, 1368 02:21:53,200 --> 02:21:55,800 and the quality of weapons that Ukraine got 1369 02:21:55,800 --> 02:21:58,480 to really turn the tables on the Russians. 1370 02:22:07,880 --> 02:22:09,840 - Zelensky was telling me 1371 02:22:09,840 --> 02:22:13,240 he was a Jewish and little - in terms of the height - 1372 02:22:13,240 --> 02:22:15,080 guy in Kryvyi Rih, 1373 02:22:15,080 --> 02:22:17,040 a very industrial city. 1374 02:22:17,040 --> 02:22:18,640 So he was beaten, 1375 02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:20,960 I believe, in the childhood. 1376 02:22:20,960 --> 02:22:24,640 He always said, like, you find the guy who is the chief, 1377 02:22:24,640 --> 02:22:27,800 punch his face, and then all other people realise that you are, 1378 02:22:27,800 --> 02:22:30,160 you know, like, the good guy to deal with. 1379 02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:34,560 - EXPLOSION 1380 02:22:36,400 --> 02:22:38,600 - Not many people believed that 1381 02:22:38,600 --> 02:22:41,360 we will be strong and stay more than 1382 02:22:41,360 --> 02:22:45,720 three days against second army 1383 02:22:45,720 --> 02:22:48,200 in the world. We stay. 1384 02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:50,160 We continue surprise. 1385 02:22:56,400 --> 02:22:59,280 - What enabled the Ukrainians to sort of stop 1386 02:22:59,280 --> 02:23:03,920 this mighty Russian war machine was pluck and bravery. 1387 02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:09,720 - Hi. Nice to meet you. 1388 02:23:09,720 --> 02:23:11,280 You're very welcome. 1389 02:24:03,640 --> 02:24:07,400 Each day, you have to do something for people. 1390 02:24:07,400 --> 02:24:11,040 Something... Maximum you can during the war, of course, 1391 02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:14,120 maximum you can. But do what... 1392 02:24:14,120 --> 02:24:15,400 Do what you can. 1393 02:24:26,760 --> 02:24:28,600 LAUGHTER 1394 02:24:35,880 --> 02:24:38,360 - In one of our interviews, he said, 1395 02:24:38,360 --> 02:24:39,720 "People see this war on Instagram. 1396 02:24:39,720 --> 02:24:42,760 "When they get sick of it, they will scroll away." 1397 02:24:42,760 --> 02:24:44,800 So he knew that time was limited. 1398 02:25:34,280 --> 02:25:36,680 - CHEERING 1399 02:25:42,360 --> 02:25:44,400 CHANTING 1400 02:26:06,800 --> 02:26:08,320 CHEERING 1401 02:26:18,400 --> 02:26:20,400 BELL CHIMES 1402 02:26:22,120 --> 02:26:23,840 - Can you see your family? 1403 02:26:24,840 --> 02:26:26,680 - No. No. 1404 02:26:27,640 --> 02:26:29,200 I can't. 1405 02:26:31,120 --> 02:26:33,800 Work and sleep, that's it. 1406 02:26:49,720 --> 02:26:53,920 I worked a lot. 1407 02:26:53,920 --> 02:26:57,320 I always worked a lot. 1408 02:26:57,320 --> 02:26:59,120 Because I knew that... 1409 02:26:59,120 --> 02:27:03,280 Always, I knew that if you want to get the result... 1410 02:27:04,400 --> 02:27:09,200 ..and if you want to show quality of your job, of the result of your job, 1411 02:27:09,200 --> 02:27:11,120 you have to work a lot. 1412 02:27:11,120 --> 02:27:13,640 You have to study a lot. A lot. 1413 02:27:13,640 --> 02:27:17,400 When everybody work, you work. When everybody sleep, you work. 1414 02:27:17,400 --> 02:27:19,240 That is my answer. 1415 02:27:20,240 --> 02:27:23,200 - Did you manage to ever communicate with him? 1416 02:28:19,800 --> 02:28:21,280 - I got the call from someone 1417 02:28:21,280 --> 02:28:23,400 of the Zelensky team, 1418 02:28:23,400 --> 02:28:27,400 and this guy said, "OK, put us in touch with someone. 1419 02:28:27,400 --> 02:28:30,040 "We need to speak with this bastard." 1420 02:28:30,040 --> 02:28:31,360 Yeah. 1421 02:28:31,360 --> 02:28:34,400 - So they were asking you to find... - To put them in touch... 1422 02:28:34,400 --> 02:28:37,400 - ..with the Kremlin? - With... Yeah. Not with the Kremlin. 1423 02:28:37,400 --> 02:28:40,840 - But somebody who had Putin's ear. - Somebody who would be able to... 1424 02:28:40,840 --> 02:28:42,880 Yes. - Did you? What did you do? 1425 02:28:42,880 --> 02:28:44,720 - I called Roman. 1426 02:28:44,720 --> 02:28:46,800 - Roman Abramovich? - Abramovich. 1427 02:28:48,120 --> 02:28:50,360 I called him. It was six o'clock 1428 02:28:50,360 --> 02:28:51,960 and he was in France. 1429 02:28:53,880 --> 02:28:58,200 I said, "So, listen, these guys want to talk to you." 1430 02:28:58,200 --> 02:29:03,160 He said to me, "So, you want me to play the political games?" 1431 02:29:03,160 --> 02:29:05,640 I said, "This is a war." 1432 02:29:05,640 --> 02:29:07,800 That's how it started. And I 1433 02:29:07,800 --> 02:29:10,400 put him in touch with the people. 1434 02:29:10,400 --> 02:29:13,400 And that's... - Zelensky's people? - Of course, yeah. 1435 02:29:17,080 --> 02:29:21,120 - We formed a very quick delegation and the President said, like, 1436 02:29:21,120 --> 02:29:22,560 "Davyd should run it." 1437 02:29:23,800 --> 02:29:25,880 I said, like, "Yeah, I'll try it." 1438 02:29:25,880 --> 02:29:28,240 I never had any diplomatic experience, 1439 02:29:28,240 --> 02:29:31,080 so I had no clue what I'm going to do, 1440 02:29:31,080 --> 02:29:33,560 what I'm going to talk to, and we went. 1441 02:29:41,400 --> 02:29:43,320 We were six or seven of us. 1442 02:29:43,320 --> 02:29:45,120 We were nervous, honestly. 1443 02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:49,760 You're coming to the enemy territory to talk. 1444 02:29:52,680 --> 02:29:55,320 The Minister of Defence had two security guys, 1445 02:29:55,320 --> 02:29:57,400 who advised him 1446 02:29:57,400 --> 02:30:00,320 not to eat, not to drink - nothing. 1447 02:30:00,320 --> 02:30:03,000 First thing I did, like, when we came, they give... 1448 02:30:03,000 --> 02:30:04,760 It was like a kind of hotel. 1449 02:30:04,760 --> 02:30:08,040 I opened the fridge and there was some sausages and everything. 1450 02:30:08,040 --> 02:30:12,080 I ate everything. I said, like, "I'm going to be the volunteer." 1451 02:30:12,080 --> 02:30:15,160 I ate everything. I said, like, "Sounds good. Let's go and talk." 1452 02:30:21,400 --> 02:30:23,880 They had this stereotype. 1453 02:30:23,880 --> 02:30:25,720 Black ties and so on. 1454 02:30:25,720 --> 02:30:27,400 I came with a hat. 1455 02:30:29,400 --> 02:30:31,880 On the first session, when they were saying, 1456 02:30:31,880 --> 02:30:34,400 "Listen, you don't have any chances to survive 1457 02:30:34,400 --> 02:30:36,880 "because we've got so big, powerful army", 1458 02:30:36,880 --> 02:30:40,040 I said, like, "Listen, while we are talking now, 1459 02:30:40,040 --> 02:30:43,880 "we already gave away on the streets 150,000 guns. 1460 02:30:43,880 --> 02:30:47,880 "When we finish today's session, it's probably going to be a million. 1461 02:30:47,880 --> 02:30:50,400 "So don't tell me, like, that we have no chances." 1462 02:30:50,400 --> 02:30:53,640 And that was, like... They were writing down, you know, 1463 02:30:53,640 --> 02:30:56,360 all this reports. I was bluffing a little bit. There was probably 1464 02:30:56,360 --> 02:30:59,120 ten times less. But I made an impression. 1465 02:31:00,320 --> 02:31:01,880 We needed to buy the time. 1466 02:31:01,880 --> 02:31:06,040 Every day that I was buying, we got some new stuff coming through 1467 02:31:06,040 --> 02:31:09,400 Polish border. You know, like, the weapons and stuff. 1468 02:31:09,400 --> 02:31:11,840 - You've sent your delegation to meet 1469 02:31:11,840 --> 02:31:14,400 the Russians for talks. - Yeah. 1470 02:31:14,400 --> 02:31:18,280 - Is there any hope, as the world watches, for diplomacy? 1471 02:31:18,280 --> 02:31:23,960 - First of all, everybody has to stop...stop fighting, 1472 02:31:23,960 --> 02:31:26,400 and that is very important moment. 1473 02:31:26,400 --> 02:31:29,080 If you do this, and if those side is ready, 1474 02:31:29,080 --> 02:31:32,280 it means that they are ready for the peace. 1475 02:31:32,280 --> 02:31:35,720 If they don't ready, it means wasting time. 1476 02:31:35,720 --> 02:31:38,080 - And do you think you're wasting your time, 1477 02:31:38,080 --> 02:31:41,280 or do you think they're ready? - We'll see. 1478 02:31:43,120 --> 02:31:45,960 - On the fourth round of negotiations, 1479 02:31:45,960 --> 02:31:47,520 I moved it to Istanbul. 1480 02:31:53,920 --> 02:31:57,440 The Russians brought 100-people delegation. 1481 02:32:13,880 --> 02:32:16,880 They are victims of their own propaganda. 1482 02:32:16,880 --> 02:32:20,880 I found the formula how the Russian really works. 1483 02:32:20,880 --> 02:32:25,120 First, he writes some crazy theories, 1484 02:32:25,120 --> 02:32:27,400 then they put this on TV, 1485 02:32:27,400 --> 02:32:31,040 then they watch their own TV and start to believe it. 1486 02:32:31,040 --> 02:32:34,200 And it's like a cycle. It's like it's real. 1487 02:32:34,200 --> 02:32:36,640 And when we were talking to these people, 1488 02:32:36,640 --> 02:32:39,400 they really believed that we have, like, full of Nazis 1489 02:32:39,400 --> 02:32:41,880 killing people on the street, all this stuff. 1490 02:32:41,880 --> 02:32:44,280 150 million people living in this country, 1491 02:32:44,280 --> 02:32:47,200 they're watching the TV and they are believing these things. 1492 02:32:47,200 --> 02:32:50,400 - What happens when you point out the President is Jewish? 1493 02:32:50,400 --> 02:32:52,560 - That was my biggest argument. It's like, 1494 02:32:52,560 --> 02:32:55,640 "How the Nazis would elect a Jewish President?" 1495 02:32:55,640 --> 02:32:58,120 It was, like, kind of put them in a bad position. 1496 02:32:58,120 --> 02:33:01,280 And they said, like, "This is some special UK operation!" 1497 02:33:01,280 --> 02:33:04,400 This is always a good answer for any insane thing 1498 02:33:04,400 --> 02:33:06,280 that you need to confirm. 1499 02:33:06,280 --> 02:33:11,200 We agree about everything except the territories, 1500 02:33:11,200 --> 02:33:13,080 and the territories is up to discussions 1501 02:33:13,080 --> 02:33:15,400 when Putin and Zelensky meet in person. 1502 02:33:24,680 --> 02:33:27,880 Three or four times, there was a possibility they will finally meet, 1503 02:33:27,880 --> 02:33:32,880 but Putin wanted to meet only to sign a pre-agreed document. 1504 02:33:34,640 --> 02:33:39,400 I offered, "If you just need to sign, you can use Docusign", I said. 1505 02:33:39,400 --> 02:33:42,040 "There's software for this. You don't have to meet. 1506 02:33:42,040 --> 02:33:45,040 "If you don't want to discuss anything, why do we need to meet?" 1507 02:33:45,040 --> 02:33:48,080 And they was like, for these old guys, like, "Docu, what?" 1508 02:33:48,080 --> 02:33:50,640 I said, "Docusign. Docusign.com." 1509 02:33:50,640 --> 02:33:52,640 You know, like, I tried to... 1510 02:33:52,640 --> 02:33:55,120 I need to buy the time, anyway, you know, 1511 02:33:55,120 --> 02:33:57,880 so I gave them some time for research. 1512 02:34:21,640 --> 02:34:25,560 - Once the Russians were defeated in the Battle of Kyiv, 1513 02:34:25,560 --> 02:34:27,880 they left behind these crime scenes, 1514 02:34:27,880 --> 02:34:31,160 these towns, in cities like Bucha... 1515 02:34:32,320 --> 02:34:35,360 ..where horrible atrocities took place. 1516 02:35:05,640 --> 02:35:07,960 - Zelensky was in Bucha a few days 1517 02:35:07,960 --> 02:35:09,280 after the Russians pulled out. 1518 02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:12,320 People were being tortured, raped, 1519 02:35:12,320 --> 02:35:15,280 disappeared, 1520 02:35:15,280 --> 02:35:16,840 butchered. 1521 02:35:53,120 --> 02:35:57,160 - When you see hundreds of bodies of innocent people killed 1522 02:35:57,160 --> 02:36:01,880 in a small city which is considered to be the suburb of Kyiv, 1523 02:36:01,880 --> 02:36:05,120 so damaged, so devastated. 1524 02:36:05,120 --> 02:36:08,880 And I remember Zelensky and his face, 1525 02:36:08,880 --> 02:36:11,000 and he was killed by that. 1526 02:36:30,920 --> 02:36:34,000 Bucha, psychologically, changed everything. 1527 02:37:21,640 --> 02:37:24,400 - I wanted to ask about Bucha and the visit there, 1528 02:37:24,400 --> 02:37:28,040 and the effect it had on President Zelensky personally. 1529 02:37:28,040 --> 02:37:30,120 - He... He was shocked. 1530 02:37:30,120 --> 02:37:33,480 He was... It's... You know, it's... 1531 02:37:34,880 --> 02:37:40,720 It's one of the most terrible days in our life. 1532 02:37:40,720 --> 02:37:47,640 It's still in...in our eyes and in our heart and, uh, 1533 02:37:47,640 --> 02:37:50,520 and it's impossible to forget. 1534 02:38:04,120 --> 02:38:10,400 - When Bucha happened, the first two days, they tried to persuade myself 1535 02:38:10,400 --> 02:38:13,880 that this is a spectacle 1536 02:38:13,880 --> 02:38:18,440 that MI6 built to shock the world 1537 02:38:18,440 --> 02:38:20,200 and get some more weapons. 1538 02:38:30,440 --> 02:38:32,160 This is like, they really believed in that. 1539 02:38:34,640 --> 02:38:36,520 President called my mobile. 1540 02:38:36,520 --> 02:38:39,880 He realised that they are not the kind of people 1541 02:38:39,880 --> 02:38:43,720 that we could get an agreement with. 1542 02:38:43,720 --> 02:38:46,400 He said, like, "Tell these assholes to go home." 1543 02:38:48,400 --> 02:38:50,240 And he said, "We come after them." 1544 02:39:27,760 --> 02:39:30,200 - What looked like a weakness 1545 02:39:30,200 --> 02:39:31,280 turned out to be 1546 02:39:31,280 --> 02:39:33,440 the strongest point of Zelensky, 1547 02:39:33,440 --> 02:39:37,880 the strongest, you know, side of his nature in Ukraine. 1548 02:39:37,880 --> 02:39:39,280 His ability to be... 1549 02:39:40,240 --> 02:39:42,640 ..actually, to feel for his people. 1550 02:39:42,640 --> 02:39:46,120 He kept this personality of the human being. 1551 02:39:46,120 --> 02:39:48,160 - BELL CHIMES 1552 02:40:11,280 --> 02:40:13,400 MILITARY BAND PLAYS 1553 02:40:38,400 --> 02:40:42,720 Putin, he's from Soviet period. 1554 02:40:44,720 --> 02:40:50,400 He's Soviet person, but, you know, my parents, 1555 02:40:50,400 --> 02:40:53,120 also from Soviet period. 1556 02:40:53,120 --> 02:40:54,880 But it's something different. 1557 02:40:57,640 --> 02:41:02,400 To be the President of Russia, to attack Ukraine, 1558 02:41:02,400 --> 02:41:05,880 to kill persons in Germany or somewhere, 1559 02:41:05,880 --> 02:41:08,440 I think for him, it's a job. 1560 02:41:11,400 --> 02:41:13,680 I... I'm not Putin, 1561 02:41:13,680 --> 02:41:19,040 so I will not be 30 years, or...25 years, President. 1562 02:41:19,040 --> 02:41:21,400 I will not be. - Really? - No. 1563 02:41:21,400 --> 02:41:24,120 No. Trust me! HE CHUCKLES 1564 02:41:24,120 --> 02:41:29,400 And... And so it means that after this job, 1565 02:41:29,400 --> 02:41:32,720 I have to go through this job... 1566 02:41:33,840 --> 02:41:36,400 ..to be respectable 1567 02:41:36,400 --> 02:41:41,400 and for even...even respect myself. 1568 02:41:41,400 --> 02:41:44,880 For me, it's very important, for my family, my children. 1569 02:41:44,880 --> 02:41:47,120 For me, it's very important. 1570 02:41:47,120 --> 02:41:51,440 And to help Ukraine, to do what I can, 1571 02:41:51,440 --> 02:41:53,720 the best way I can. 1572 02:42:08,120 --> 02:42:10,680 - Putin can't accept defeat. 1573 02:42:12,400 --> 02:42:15,880 He's decided, at this point, that he will outlast 1574 02:42:15,880 --> 02:42:17,720 their ability to resist, 1575 02:42:17,720 --> 02:42:20,960 he will wear them down, he will bombard them. 1576 02:42:20,960 --> 02:42:22,640 Putin is completely indifferent 1577 02:42:22,640 --> 02:42:24,800 to the loss of human life. Always has been. 1578 02:42:41,840 --> 02:42:43,880 - SHE SOBS 1579 02:43:05,120 --> 02:43:08,280 - When you have to make decisions which you know are likely 1580 02:43:08,280 --> 02:43:13,280 to lead to the death of men and women, how do you manage that? 1581 02:43:18,120 --> 02:43:20,480 - That is the most difficult... 1582 02:43:20,480 --> 02:43:23,400 The biggest difficulties in my life. 1583 02:43:23,400 --> 02:43:25,400 Because I... 1584 02:43:25,400 --> 02:43:29,880 When I... When you make some of such decisions, 1585 02:43:30,920 --> 02:43:33,480 ..for me, it's difficult always. 1586 02:43:33,480 --> 02:43:38,360 I have a lot of questions to myself. 1587 02:43:38,360 --> 02:43:40,480 And there are some questions on which 1588 02:43:40,480 --> 02:43:43,960 I didn't get, till now, answers. 1589 02:43:43,960 --> 02:43:48,880 All these questions are about lives. 1590 02:43:48,880 --> 02:43:53,400 I saw this... I remember these people - a lot of them. 1591 02:43:53,400 --> 02:43:55,880 I saw a lot of parents - a lot of them. 1592 02:43:55,880 --> 02:44:00,200 I gave orders, Golden Stars for the heroic... 1593 02:44:01,400 --> 02:44:06,760 ..heroic deaths of these...of their children, 1594 02:44:06,760 --> 02:44:10,160 or of their husbands and wives. And that is... 1595 02:44:10,160 --> 02:44:14,320 That is a big, big challenge for me. 1596 02:44:14,320 --> 02:44:16,120 I think the biggest one. 1597 02:44:18,600 --> 02:44:20,640 SOMBRE MUSIC 1598 02:46:29,480 --> 02:46:31,040 - How often do you see your husband? 1599 02:46:48,400 --> 02:46:51,400 The woman we spent an hour and a half with two days ago, 1600 02:46:51,400 --> 02:46:53,880 your wife, the First Lady... - Hour and a half? 1601 02:46:53,880 --> 02:46:55,480 INTERVIEWER LAUGHS 1602 02:46:55,480 --> 02:46:57,720 That was long. 1603 02:46:57,720 --> 02:47:00,920 - She was generous with her time! - That's great. 1604 02:47:00,920 --> 02:47:02,400 That's great. 1605 02:47:02,400 --> 02:47:04,880 I'm happy that you had this chance. 1606 02:47:04,880 --> 02:47:08,080 Not always, I have such chances, so... 1607 02:47:12,120 --> 02:47:14,400 Nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. 1608 02:47:14,400 --> 02:47:17,400 - Zelensky underwent an extraordinary transition 1609 02:47:17,400 --> 02:47:20,680 from comedian and movie star 1610 02:47:20,680 --> 02:47:23,000 to now, a leader of a country 1611 02:47:23,000 --> 02:47:26,040 at war, courted by politicians, 1612 02:47:26,040 --> 02:47:27,240 Prime Ministers, 1613 02:47:27,240 --> 02:47:29,560 Presidents and movie stars. 1614 02:47:34,400 --> 02:47:36,880 - Hi, Sean. - Hello, Mr President. 1615 02:47:36,880 --> 02:47:38,680 - Nice to meet you. - Great to see you. 1616 02:47:38,680 --> 02:47:40,360 - You are welcome. - Great to see you again. 1617 02:47:40,360 --> 02:47:42,520 - You're looking good. - Oh, thank you. 1618 02:47:43,520 --> 02:47:45,880 This is for you. - No, Sean! 1619 02:47:45,880 --> 02:47:47,640 - Yes. - No! - Please. 1620 02:47:47,640 --> 02:47:50,880 - That is yours. - No, I feel terrible outside... 1621 02:47:50,880 --> 02:47:54,120 It's just a symbolic, silly thing... - Yes, but it's... 1622 02:47:54,120 --> 02:47:57,120 - But if I know this is here with you, 1623 02:47:57,120 --> 02:48:00,120 then I'll feel better and stronger for the fight. 1624 02:48:00,120 --> 02:48:03,600 - It's so great, great honour, but until we win. 1625 02:48:03,600 --> 02:48:06,400 - When you win, bring it back to Malibu. 1626 02:48:06,400 --> 02:48:08,120 - Great. - Yes. - Great, OK. 1627 02:48:08,120 --> 02:48:09,560 - Because I'll feel much better 1628 02:48:09,560 --> 02:48:11,240 knowing there's a piece of me here. 1629 02:48:11,240 --> 02:48:12,880 - We have to win. 1630 02:48:12,880 --> 02:48:14,640 We have to win quick. 1631 02:48:32,800 --> 02:48:34,520 - Zelensky and the Ukrainians 1632 02:48:34,520 --> 02:48:38,280 achieved an incredible military victory, 1633 02:48:38,280 --> 02:48:41,120 but it became clear, by the end of 2023, 1634 02:48:41,120 --> 02:48:43,720 just how difficult and, erm, 1635 02:48:43,720 --> 02:48:46,880 how long this war could be. 1636 02:49:02,400 --> 02:49:04,280 - Ukraine's struggle 1637 02:49:04,280 --> 02:49:05,720 is an existential one, 1638 02:49:05,720 --> 02:49:08,000 and one with profound consequences 1639 02:49:08,000 --> 02:49:09,640 for our century, 1640 02:49:09,640 --> 02:49:12,080 and which system prevails - 1641 02:49:12,080 --> 02:49:13,880 the one of democracy, 1642 02:49:13,880 --> 02:49:16,880 self-determination, or the one of 1643 02:49:16,880 --> 02:49:18,760 dictatorship and brute force. 1644 02:49:19,880 --> 02:49:24,280 And the two personalities at the heart of this tussle 1645 02:49:24,280 --> 02:49:26,320 couldn't be more different. 1646 02:49:41,800 --> 02:49:43,640 - APPLAUSE 1647 02:49:45,400 --> 02:49:46,920 # Gory, gory 1648 02:49:46,920 --> 02:49:49,400 # What a hell of a way to die 1649 02:49:49,400 --> 02:49:51,240 # Gory, gory 1650 02:49:51,240 --> 02:49:53,640 # What a hell of a way to die 1651 02:49:53,640 --> 02:49:55,360 # Gory, gory 1652 02:49:55,360 --> 02:49:57,400 # What a hell of a way to die 1653 02:49:57,400 --> 02:50:01,480 # He ain't going to jump no more... # 1654 02:51:01,960 --> 02:51:03,880 APPLAUSE 1655 02:51:31,480 --> 02:51:33,400 APPLAUSE 1656 02:51:35,280 --> 02:51:38,640 - Putin is playing the dirty gamble, 1657 02:51:38,640 --> 02:51:45,400 expecting the West to get exhausted to support Ukraine, 1658 02:51:45,400 --> 02:51:48,120 and betray it. 1659 02:51:48,120 --> 02:51:51,000 And Zelensky is trying to unify 1660 02:51:51,000 --> 02:51:53,400 the West in support of Ukraine 1661 02:51:53,400 --> 02:51:57,720 and inspire the Ukrainians in fighting the Russians. 1662 02:51:57,720 --> 02:52:00,560 And this is a fight of years. 1663 02:52:05,120 --> 02:52:07,200 - The longer the war goes on, 1664 02:52:07,200 --> 02:52:11,240 the harder it gets for Volodymyr Zelensky. 1665 02:52:16,400 --> 02:52:20,120 - The Ukrainian Army desperately needs to enlist more troops. 1666 02:52:21,120 --> 02:52:23,280 - The fervour, the enthusiasm, 1667 02:52:23,280 --> 02:52:28,880 the queues of patriotic volunteers wanting to fight has dissipated. 1668 02:52:31,840 --> 02:52:33,600 - Every time I come back and see my Ukrainian friends, 1669 02:52:33,600 --> 02:52:35,600 they show me a video of someone they know who's been killed. 1670 02:52:48,720 --> 02:52:50,960 Zelensky has faced some criticism. 1671 02:52:52,040 --> 02:52:56,880 The election which was supposed to take place in May of 2024 1672 02:52:56,880 --> 02:52:59,120 was cancelled, understandably. 1673 02:53:01,120 --> 02:53:04,120 But there is a certain amount of unease. 1674 02:53:06,640 --> 02:53:08,240 There are worries about 1675 02:53:08,240 --> 02:53:09,880 corruption in Ukraine. 1676 02:53:09,880 --> 02:53:12,200 Some people suggest Zelensky 1677 02:53:12,200 --> 02:53:14,920 hasn't dealt with corruption effectively enough. 1678 02:53:16,880 --> 02:53:19,640 And I think the biggest problem of all is that Ukrainians 1679 02:53:19,640 --> 02:53:22,240 just don't know how long the war is going to last. 1680 02:53:22,240 --> 02:53:25,880 Five years, ten years, 20 years? We don't know. 1681 02:53:27,640 --> 02:53:31,400 - I don't think any one of us is able even to imagine 1682 02:53:31,400 --> 02:53:37,320 this grade of pressure he has, of burden he has on his shoulder. 1683 02:53:40,640 --> 02:53:43,640 - In many ways, he's quite difficult to recognise. 1684 02:53:43,640 --> 02:53:45,560 He's no longer... 1685 02:53:46,760 --> 02:53:48,160 ..the funny man. 1686 02:53:48,160 --> 02:53:51,280 He's not surrounded by just a gang of friends any more. 1687 02:54:31,120 --> 02:54:33,600 - As a part of our history, 1688 02:54:33,600 --> 02:54:36,360 we have to pass this way. 1689 02:54:36,360 --> 02:54:40,120 And it's great that we have such a leader 1690 02:54:40,120 --> 02:54:44,640 in such a tragic part of our history. 1691 02:54:44,640 --> 02:54:47,400 And I'm really proud that he's my friend. 1692 02:54:52,640 --> 02:54:55,400 - Do you think about life after the war 1693 02:54:55,400 --> 02:54:57,200 and what you and Volodymyr will do? 1694 02:55:26,240 --> 02:55:28,320 Is your husband an optimist? 1695 02:55:30,640 --> 02:55:34,040 - I think he's the greatest optimist. 1696 02:55:34,040 --> 02:55:36,400 In this situation, especially. 1697 02:55:40,400 --> 02:55:43,880 - How do you keep going? How do you manage? 1698 02:55:43,880 --> 02:55:46,040 - I have to. 1699 02:55:46,040 --> 02:55:49,920 It's... I understand that I have to. 1700 02:55:49,920 --> 02:55:54,680 I can't betray the people's choice 1701 02:55:54,680 --> 02:55:59,960 and their...I mean, this belief in me. 1702 02:56:01,400 --> 02:56:03,400 And I love Ukraine. 1703 02:56:03,400 --> 02:56:06,880 And I love to... What does it mean, "love Ukraine"? 1704 02:56:06,880 --> 02:56:08,880 I love... Everything... 1705 02:56:08,880 --> 02:56:15,440 The best what I had was in Ukraine and with Ukraine. 1706 02:56:15,440 --> 02:56:18,640 My wife, my children, 1707 02:56:18,640 --> 02:56:22,880 my movies in my previous work, 1708 02:56:22,880 --> 02:56:28,120 and my presidential choice. 1709 02:56:28,120 --> 02:56:32,160 So everything what I have, this is Ukraine. 1710 02:56:32,160 --> 02:56:33,760 That's why I have to. 1711 02:56:35,720 --> 02:56:38,400 - Thank you. Thank you. - Thank you so much. 1712 02:56:38,400 --> 02:56:41,600 Thank you. - It's very good of you to give us so much time. 1713 02:56:41,600 --> 02:56:42,720 - Thank you so much. 1714 02:56:42,720 --> 02:56:44,640 Thank you so much. All the best. 1715 02:56:58,400 --> 02:57:01,880 To find out more about Ukraine and some of the influential people 1716 02:57:01,880 --> 02:57:03,640 whose stories have shaped it, 1717 02:57:03,640 --> 02:57:07,120 go to bbc.co.uk/zelensky, 1718 02:57:07,120 --> 02:57:11,360 and follow the links to the Open University's interactive gallery.