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A new decade, new scandals,

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and new outrages.

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Ay, caramba! It's 1990.

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A year of sex, thugs...

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..and rock 'n' roll.

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There was panic
on the streets of London.

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It was really shocking.

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Even confectionery
caused controversy.

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How dare they
change our Marathon bar?

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There was chat show carnage...

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Are you under the influence
of drink, or not?

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What are you laughing at?
LAUGHTER

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These people don't know what
they're laughing at half the time.

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..shocking soapy revelations...

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All right, Michelle?

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I mean, it's a stroke of genius,
really, when it comes to casting.

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..and word up for some
truly bad taste telly.

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If you would like to complain
about anything in this show,

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phone this number.

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This was the year the beefburger
captivated the communists...

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It must've been like a blinding
light, frankly, for them.

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..and mortified
the man from the ministry.

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Suddenly,
there was this feeling of

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is it actually safe to eat beef
at all?

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A year when pop stars were exposed.

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It was the worst crime
any musician could ever commit.

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And politicians were deposed.

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I thought, "This is cataclysmic."

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So, belt up, put your foot down,

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and prepare to deploy the airbags
as we speed back to a year

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where TV, showbiz and politics
were so controversially 1990.

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Three, two, one... We have lift off.

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In a year when the space shuttle

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took the $2 billion Hubble
telescope to look at the stars,

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and a man called Tim proposed
a new hi-tech computery way

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to look up information.

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On our TV screens, we were looking
at something even more shocking.

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I think at about the age of 15
was when I hit six foot.

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And so I could get into pubs.

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So, Friday night,
I was often in a pub.

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And we'd get in at about
twenty past eleven

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and you never want to go
straight to bed,

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so the first thing you do, remote,
boom, what's on telly?

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What was on Channel 4 was The Word,

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the most controversial
new TV series of 1990.

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'Spread The Word.'

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From the second you saw
these high-energy titles,

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you knew you were in for
a wild ride.

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I think it was controversial
because it felt very un-policed.

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It was shocking, it was raw.

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It was so naughty.

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The Word.

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It was so modern and fresh
and achingly cool.

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With a studio audience
full of hyped up twentysomethings,

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The Word was on a mission to shock.

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It were either acerbic jokes,
or controversial interviews...

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He's a very difficult man
to talk to.

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..or random acts of kind of nudity,

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bands storming the stage,
bands storming off stage.

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It was wild, man. The Word was wild.

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Leading the anarchy from day one

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was the shy and retiring
Terry Christian.

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Welcome to The Word, the show that's
got more critics than viewers.

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The Word, the idea of it
was just to make something cheeky,

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very irreverent,
cos you've got to remember,

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in 1990 when we started,

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there was a lot
of disaffected youth.

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There was still
high youth unemployment,

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it was still very much Thatcherism.

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It was only controversial because
we weren't following Radio One

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or BBC One or, you know, the NME
or any of that.

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We were ploughing our own furrow.

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And where other shows feared to
tread, The Word not only rushed in,

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it kicked the door down when
it came to courting controversy.

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In this now famous TV moment,

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the guitarist
from the all-female rock group L7

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found a cheeky way
to get her band maximum exposure.

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And it was exactly the kind
of headline-grabbing stunt

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the producers were banking on.

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It would have been Paul Ross,
who was the editor,

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with the director who said,
"Go in for a close-up."

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You know what I mean?
LAUGHS

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"Let's go in
for the close-up there."

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But it wasn't just the acts
who went all-out to get noticed.

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The man and woman on the street
got themselves on the screen

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to get their 15 minutes of fame,
or shame.

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The Hopefuls was an idea
stolen from a Canadian TV show,

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where people would be paid $250

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for doing, like,
a dare on the telly.

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You know, like a student prank.

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'Welcome to The Hopefuls,

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'people who say they'd do
anything to get on television.'

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They volunteered to be on this
strand, and then they'd be told,

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"Right, you've got to go in a
snorkel and mask in a bath full of,

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"you know, horse pee and cow dung."

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You know, that kind of stuff.

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You've got to eat worms...
Sometimes, they'd have a speciality

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that they'd volunteer for, like
the bloke who ate a worm sandwich.

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Yes, that happened.

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Eurgh. And then the guy
doing pubes on a cracker.

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As did that.

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I mean, just awful stuff.

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I couldn't believe
what I was watching.

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Even three sheets to the wind,

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I couldn't believe the things
they were willing to eat and do.

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In a way, you look back
at that footage and think

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that was the forerunner
to a Bush Tucker Trial.

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They were doing it on The Word
back in the '90s.

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The Word may have left a bad taste
in some people's mouths,

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but it raised the bar
when it came to

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pushing the boundaries of youth TV.

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Everybody copied us afterwards.

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I remember when Chris Evans
did TFI Friday.

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So, in order to create some
controversy, he got Shaun Ryder on,

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knowing quite well he'd swear.

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And then it's like, "Oh, my God!

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"Horror of horror,
Shaun Ryder's sworn on TFI!"

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And you're going, "He'd done it
every time he appeared on The Word."

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After more than a hundred episodes,

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the final word on The Word
came in 1995.

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Looking back, it was the precursor

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of today's attention-grabbing
clickbait world.

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It was the kind of telly
that you sneaked on

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when your parents thought
you'd gone to bed,

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and you wouldn't tell anyone.

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It gave you that chance to be
able to tell everyone the next day

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that you'd seen it.

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That's what was so great
about The Word.

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'Word.'

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OK, so The Word had outrageous
music acts on, week after week,

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but in 1990, one band
offended the world so much,

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their name became
a byword for controversy.

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Ever get that lip-syncing feeling?

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I'd just started
working in the music industry,

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hadn't been in it too long,

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and this duo came along
called Milli Vanilli.

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Girl, You Know It's True -
cracking single.

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Absolutely brilliant.
They were on everywhere.

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Milli Vanilli!
Milli Vanilli!

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At number ten with
Girl, You Know It's True!

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# Girl, you know it's true... #

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# Cos I've got long braids
Ooh, ooh, ooh

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# I love you
Because I'm macho man. #

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They sounded brilliant,
and they looked amazing.

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I mean, these were two male models,
rippling with muscles, amazing hair.

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These ridiculous jackets
with shoulder pads,

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literally like planes taking off.

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They came out of nowhere.

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They could dance, they could sing,
they were beautiful.

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Yes, they could dance.
Yes, they were beautiful.

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But could they sing?

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Milli Vanilli,
aka Fab Morvan and Rob Pilatus,

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had scored a string
of international hits,

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when, in 1990,
they found themselves embroiled

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in one of the most memorable
pop scandals of all-time.

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So, there they were, out and about,
doing the circuit. Won a Grammy...

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And the best new artist is...

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..Milli Vanilli.
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

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# Girl, you know it's true... #

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And then suddenly it transpires...

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They didn't even sing the songs.

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In a toe-curlingly embarrassing
bit of telly,

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our two shoulder-padded pretenders
were exposed

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after a simple technical hitch.

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It was when they were performing
live and the track skipped...

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# Girl, you know it's...
Girl, you know it's...

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# Girl, you know it's...
Girl, you know it's.... #

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..over and over again.

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And so there was no denying
that they were totally miming.

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Miming on pop telly had been around
since pop telly began.

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That wasn't the real problem.

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The duo's downfall came
with the shocking revelation

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that these hot-panted hunks hadn't
even sung on the original tracks.

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# Girl, you know it's...
Girl, you know it's... #

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It was the worst crime
any musician could ever commit.

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"We're Milli Vanilli."
BUZZER

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"Well, actually, we're not."

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It transpires
the track had already been recorded,

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the management find
these two lovely guys and go,

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"You know what? You look great,
you can move, can you sing a bit?

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"We haven't got much time
to re-record the vocals,

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"so why don't you just go with it?

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"I'm gonna pay you
a little bit of money,

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"and we'll sort it out
further down the line."

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A lot of people would have said
yes to that, to be fair to them.

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But the masterplan failed,

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and an outraged world treated
the band like master criminals,

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rather than bad mimers.

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People were so horrified.
People were so brutal to them.

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And I look back, and I was like,
"What's so bad that they did?"

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We were angry with them, rightly so.

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But why them, and not the executives
who put them together?

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Why them,
and not the people responsible

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for paying money and benefiting
from deceiving the world?

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Is also is funny that their biggest
hit was Girl, You Know It's True.

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And it wasn't true at all.

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They were lying.

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To prove they could sing,

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the boys put on an impromptu
performance at a press conference.

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Possibly a bad idea.

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OUT OF TUNE:
# Girl, you know it's true

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00:09:43,680 --> 00:09:47,600
# Ooh, ooh, ooh
I love you. #

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A watching world concluded

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maybe they'd have been better off
sticking to the miming.

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So in a bid to put their side
of the story across,

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00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,440
the boys hotfooted it
to the Wogan sofa.

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00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,800
This is the first interview
you've given on British television.

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00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,640
How did you find yourself
in that situation?

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00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:10,880
In that appalling situation of
being exposed to the world as fakes.

210
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,320
Do you think that the kind of thing
that happened to you

211
00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,760
happens in the pop music business?

212
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,640
It happens a lot, but we had
bad luck because we are two boys

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00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,120
and just one big, greedy, hard guy

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00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,200
used us and seduced us.

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00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,400
And we really wanted to make it
by our own.

216
00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,160
We're really talented and...

217
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,560
So you're completely innocent?
Both of you?

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00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:37,720
It looks like.
LAUGHTER

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00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,040
Certainly the way you tell it, yes.

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These were two guys
who escaped poverty

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00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,680
by being good-looking
and being good dancers.

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00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:47,240
And someone brought them in
and said,

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00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,000
"Go and dance
on that television programme

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00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,600
"and mime along to this song."

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00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,280
And they end up having their lives
ruined as a result of it.

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00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,880
Following the scandal,
the life of Rob Pilatus

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00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,520
tragically spiralled
into one of crime and drug abuse,

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00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,800
and eight years later, he died
from a suspected overdose, aged 32.

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00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,000
Fab Morvan carried on,

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00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,720
and three decades on
is still drawing the crowds.

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00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:13,520
So, here comes the litmus test.

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00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,960
After all that happened,
can he really sing?

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00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,680
# Girl, you know it's true... #

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00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:24,440
Yes. Yes, he can!
# Ooh, ooh, ooh, I love you... #

235
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,720
So now we know it's true.

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00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,480
# Yes, you know it's true... #

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00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,960
Still to come on our compendium
of controversy from 1990...

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00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,360
The cartoon character
from over there

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00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,120
that was causing chaos over here.

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00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,600
And the Big Mac in Moscow
took the Soviets by storm.

241
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,840
America had planted
a capitalist flag

242
00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,120
in the heart
of the communist capital.

243
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:51,800
And it was fantastic.

244
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,960
KIDS CHEERING
Children's TV in the '80s -

245
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,800
technicolour and unfailingly polite.

246
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,640
Hello.
Hello. Hello.

247
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,440
After school, you could make things
with the Blue Peter team,

248
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,600
or laugh with the Chuckle Brothers
and Stu Francis.

249
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,240
Ooh, I could wrestle an Action Man!

250
00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,600
But, for some, Action Man wrestling,

251
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,760
or, indeed, grape crushing,
just wasn't edgy enough,

252
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:21,440
and in 1990, rebellious kids
found their saviours from America.

253
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,240
Specifically, Springfield.

254
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,440
With its now instantly recognisable
title sequence,

255
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:38,760
The Simpsons was already
a ratings-winner across the pond.

256
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,520
SCHOOL BELL RINGS

257
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:41,840
And in 1990,

258
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,000
the dysfunctional family from
Springfield arrived in the UK.

259
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,440
We didn't have Sky,

260
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,280
so I used to get
a lad in the sixth form

261
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,160
to tape ten of them on a VHS

262
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,000
and then bring them in for me
and I'd go home...

263
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,160
We did have a video player,
we didn't have Sky.

264
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:57,280
And so, I'd go home then,

265
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,120
and watch
these back-to-back Simpsons.

266
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:00,760
And I'm just thinking...

267
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,960
"This is a show about a naughty kid,
and I quite like it, actually!"

268
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:05,040
HE LAUGHS

269
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,480
Put her there.
SING-SONG: Ha-ha ha-ha-ha! Loser!

270
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,920
The underachieving hero of the piece
wasn't everybody's cup of tea.

271
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,640
Mom, I never won before,
I may never win again.

272
00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,200
Na-na na-na-na!

273
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,240
Bart, I think, annoyed people

274
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,520
because he seemed to be a kind of
a celebration of stupidity, really.

275
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,320
WHISK WHIRRING
Dibs. First dibs.

276
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,360
I get to lick the beaters.

277
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:29,720
Whoa! Ah, ah, ah! Lisa...

278
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,320
If you found a character

279
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,240
upon the idea of
"underachiever and proud of it",

280
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,920
then that is going
to irritate some people.

281
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,120
There was something
about the morality of Bart.

282
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,280
I thought I'd investigate

283
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,920
the effects of cigarette smoking
on dogs.

284
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,000
DOG COUGHS

285
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,680
I think that
was some of the controversy.

286
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:49,360
Still in the '90s,

287
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,000
there was an idea
that TV rotted your brain.

288
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,560
We were told this
throughout the '80s,

289
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:55,920
when I was a kid, "You're not
meant to watch TV too much."

290
00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,120
It's like gaming now.
It's one of those things.

291
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,840
"If you sit down, watch it,
something will happen,

292
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,080
"all the little brain cells
will come out of your ears."

293
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,120
There was still an idea
that we'd all start watching Bart

294
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,040
and even people who were essentially
in their 20s would become Bart.

295
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,880
So, what was it about the behaviour

296
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,640
of this ten-year-old
skateboarding schoolboy

297
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:16,520
that caused such a commotion?

298
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,520
Well, Bart used to ring up,
didn't he, ring up Moe?

299
00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,080
And he'd have these funny little...
he'd prank call him,

300
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400
and he'd say these funny names
that were a bit rude.

301
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,000
RINGING TONE
Hello, Moe's Tavern.

302
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,640
Birthplace of the Rob Roy.

303
00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,960
Is Seymour there? Last name, Butts.
Just a sec...

304
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,920
And Moe would yell it out
in the bar,

305
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,040
not really realising...
how rude he's being.

306
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,520
Hey, is there a Butts here?
Seymour Butts?

307
00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,600
YELLING: Hey, everybody,
I wanna Seymour Butts.

308
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,080
And we're all cacking ourselves
at home, going, "That is fantastic."

309
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,560
Listen,
you little scum-sucking pus bucket,

310
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,760
when I get my hands on you...
KIDS LAUGH

311
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,960
'I'm gonna pull out your eyeballs
with a corkscrew...'

312
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,880
And so it gave naughty little kids
a little bit of a, uh...

313
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,560
HE CHUCKLES
..a fillip, is that the word?

314
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,760
A little bit of a charge,
like, "Oh, hello!

315
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,600
"Well, if Bart can do it,
I can do it."

316
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,160
Across the Atlantic,
this was all a huge hit

317
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,080
with naughty little kids
and adults alike,

318
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240
although, for some,
the celebration of bad boy Bart

319
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,240
as an unrepentant underachiever
raised hackles.

320
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,400
In schools, we try to instil
in all children

321
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,360
to do their very best.

322
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,680
And if we accept
an under achievement...

323
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,760
attitude from them...
Yeah. ..then that is inappropriate.

324
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,720
The family with the yellow faces
even caught the attention

325
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:32,440
of the man from the White House.

326
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,040
Well, lemme tell you something.

327
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,120
We are going to keep on trying
to strengthen the American family,

328
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,560
to make American families

329
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,400
a lot more like the Waltons
and a lot less like the Simpsons.

330
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,880
Of course, this was a red rag
to a yellow family,

331
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,480
so the writers gleefully went about
having the last laugh.

332
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,200
Hey, we're just like the Waltons.

333
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,240
We're praying for an end
to the depression, too.

334
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,160
You could tell it was the work
of a group of very clever people.

335
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,880
You can hear the conversations
in the writers' room, almost,

336
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,600
I think, with The Simpsons.

337
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,120
Controversial in 1990, but part
of the cultural landscape today,

338
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,800
Bart, Lisa, Homer, Marge,
and Maggie, of course...

339
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,560
DUMMY SUCKING
..gave us more than just a laugh.

340
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,480
That was the first show
I remember thinking,

341
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,040
"Yeah, I'm glad you get this,
Simpsons.

342
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,360
"Things aren't black or white.

343
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,680
"Teachers tell you it's black
or white. Do this, or else."

344
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,880
But it's not.
And The Simpsons got that.

345
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:28,880
GRUNTING

346
00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,800
And then, and only then...

347
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,840
Of course, TV comedy and controversy
go together hand-in-hand.

348
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,720
Sometimes we LIKE to be outraged.
To gasp. Even to be offended.

349
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,880
LAUGHTER

350
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,600
It's a pity old Enoch ain't in
charge, mate. Oh, here we go again.

351
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,800
Yeah. He'd have the solution,
don't worry about that.

352
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,280
LAUGHTER
But on the 30th of September, 1990,

353
00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,200
one sitcom declared total war
on good taste.

354
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,440
Although to see it,
you needed to have put

355
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,200
one of those funny square aerials
on your roof.

356
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,840
# Heil, honey
Heil honey

357
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,320
# Heil, honey
Heil honey... #

358
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,400
Heil, Honey, I'm Home

359
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,320
was a show
that was commissioned

360
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:06,640
to be
controversial.

361
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:09,200
That doesn't happen
very often.

362
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,520
The Young Ones wasn't commissioned
to be controversial.

363
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,680
Till Death wasn't commissioned
to be controversial.

364
00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:15,440
That Was The Week, Saturday Live,

365
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,800
these shows
are not put out there to make...

366
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,000
to make...
to upset people, put it that way.

367
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,560
They're put out there to make
a statement of a particular kind,

368
00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,160
but they're not put out there
to annoy people or upset people.

369
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,160
On Heil, Honey,
I was working for BSB at the time,

370
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,640
and they wanted something
to make a bit of noise.

371
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,480
That was why it was commissioned.

372
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,600
HITLER: Heil, honey, I'm home!
DOORBELL

373
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,280
Heil, Honey, I'm Home
is a parody of a 1950s sitcom

374
00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:46,120
that places Hitler and Eva Braun
in a domestic setting

375
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:51,280
and gives them Jewish neighbours who
they're in humorous conflict with.

376
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:55,520
It scarcely needs to be said that
this was going to be controversial.

377
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:57,720
AMERICAN ACCENTS:
When I finally get to invade Poland,

378
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:58,880
who'll be the first to know?

379
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,160
The Poles? No! Rosa Goldenstein.

380
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,440
CANNED LAUGHTER
Hey, Adolf...

381
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,640
MUFFLED ARGUMENT

382
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,520
How do you like that? The Hitlers'
are having another fight.

383
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,920
The whole thing is a deconstruction
of situation comedies.

384
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,160
Ah, hiya, bub. Is he here yet?
Who?

385
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,840
Huh. Ain't he always
acting the clown, honey?

386
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:22,360
It's basically a sort of a studio
situation comedy, a la I Love Lucy,

387
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:24,200
with lots of sort of
laugh track moments.

388
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,880
I'm a very, very bad Hitler.
CANNED LAUGHTER

389
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,320
And lots of sort of puns
and looks to the camera...

390
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,480
Boy, this is gonna be some night!
HE SIGHS

391
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,440
..reaction shots and catchphrases.

392
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,760
I'm a lucky guy.

393
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,520
Gotta think lucky, gotta be lucky.
I'm a lucky Hitler.

394
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,520
But it's about Nazi Germany.

395
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,920
You have been rather a naughty boy.

396
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,360
All this Czechoslovakia nonsense,
eh? Ah, come on, Neville.

397
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:48,040
I was just having fun!

398
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,360
It was taking a titan of terror,

399
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:54,800
a hate figure, you know,
for the last three generations,

400
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:57,000
and plonking him into a sitcom.

401
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,720
No more
naughty little invasion plans, eh?

402
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,680
BOTH CHUCKLE
You're kidding, Neville?

403
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,040
From now on, I'm the sweetest
Mr Nice Guy you know.

404
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:06,280
Here, thank you, yes.

405
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,680
The whole point is it's I Love Lucy,
it's The Honeymooners.

406
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,360
It's... It's the couple
and the couple next door,

407
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,800
it just happens
to be Ava and Adolf.

408
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,080
Hey, do you remember the names

409
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,320
we used to call each other
when we first started dating?

410
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,760
Oh! Well, you were Mr Sausage...
CANNED LAUGHTER

411
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,640
..and I was
your hoochie coochie girl. Yeah.

412
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,520
# Hoochie coochie coochie... #

413
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,600
A sitcom about a genocidal dictator.

414
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,600
Who could be offended by that?
Well, form a queue.

415
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,760
So, obviously, Jewish groups
were not too keen

416
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,280
on the series coming out.

417
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,000
And then the tabloids waded in

418
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,640
because the tabloids will never miss
an excuse to wade in on anything.

419
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,640
Shortly after the pilot episode
aired, BSB was taken over.

420
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,680
Surprisingly, it turned out the new
owner was not a fan of Nazi sitcoms,

421
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,480
and the series was scrapped.

422
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,160
Once Sky took over BSB,

423
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,080
the first phone call
I got from David Elstein was,

424
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,120
"Stop production, stop production."

425
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,920
Although a lot of money had already
been spent, the price was too high,

426
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:09,800
so the rest of the series has been
consigned to a TV bunker ever since.

427
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,680
So, they wrote 16 episodes,

428
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,760
and then they filmed eight of them
and only one was ever shown.

429
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,080
So there is another seven episodes
sitting on a shelf somewhere.

430
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,720
For all the commotion it caused,
the poor take-up of Squarials

431
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,920
meant very few people ever saw
Heil, Honey's solitary screening.

432
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,560
But it was so controversial

433
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:34,280
that its title alone
is now a byword for bad taste TV.

434
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,680
Boy,
you invade one little country...

435
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,600
CANNED LAUGHTER
..everyone is on your back.

436
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,120
And there are more bad tastes
to come after the break,

437
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,720
when this government minister
bites off more than he can chew.

438
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,960
It's one of those moments,
you look back now and think...

439
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,120
INHALES SHARPLY

440
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:57,080
And it's all change at Number 10
as the Tories turn on the Iron Lady.

441
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,400
152 of her own MPs are saying,

442
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,320
"We do not want you
to continue as Prime Minister."

443
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,160
'Mrs Thatcher,
could I ask you to comment?'

444
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,960
We're looking back at
the controversial events of 1990...

445
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,280
..a year when US troops
were in Panama

446
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,240
and Iraq invaded Kuwait.

447
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,880
Meanwhile, over in East Germany,
walls were tumbling down...

448
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,600
..both literally
and metaphorically...

449
00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,360
..as troops began dismantling

450
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,320
one of the 20th century's
most infamous symbols

451
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,880
of the division
between East and West.

452
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,320
Starting today,
it's coming down all over Berlin.

453
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,200
On the way to a united Germany.

454
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,440
SPEAKS GERMAN

455
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,680
"A feeling of exaltation,"
this East Berliner called it,

456
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,320
"like being out of prison."

457
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,760
And 1,000 miles away
in the Russian capital,

458
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,960
there was another meaty
political stand being taken.

459
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,880
Muscovites queued for hours today
to taste the delights of fast food

460
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,400
when McDonald's opened their first
restaurant in the Soviet Union.

461
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,160
The Big Macs, chips, and milkshakes

462
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,040
will taste the same
as everywhere else.

463
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,320
But the food isn't cheap.

464
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,320
Half a day's roubles
for a Big Mac alone.

465
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,880
It is really interesting
thinking about

466
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,840
what Moscow felt like
to the rest of the world then,

467
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:20,080
to the West, you know.

468
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,640
And you think of that
back in the USSR idea,

469
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,440
that really Moscow was this place
that was full of people queueing,

470
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,760
empty shelves, eating cabbage,
being cold and miserable.

471
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,160
And that was very much the picture
that the West was painting.

472
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,000
They were at the height
of kind of Soviet rule,

473
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,720
and suddenly,
these bright yellow arches appear.

474
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,200
You know, the golden arches
of Western capitalism.

475
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,680
REPORTER: It's hard to miss
the restaurant's garish neon

476
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,600
among Moscow's drab streets.

477
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,560
And this morning,
the crowds were quick to gather.

478
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,760
And rather than people shunning it,
going,

479
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,080
"Oh, no, no.
This is all terrible.

480
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,920
"This is all part of the West,"
and so on, people are loving it.

481
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,160
CHEERING

482
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,240
It wasn't just customers that were
desperate for a taste of the West.

483
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,480
27,000 people reportedly applied

484
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,160
for just 630 jobs.

485
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:21,920
Even the Ronald McDonald winter
clothing collection was a hit.

486
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,520
REPORTER: In the Soviet Union,

487
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,080
Western clothes
have a special cachet.

488
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,320
Even, it seems,
the McDonald's uniforms,

489
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,440
which have just arrived
for the Soviet staff.

490
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,080
This was huge.

491
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:46,800
This is the first time that
the free world's leader, America,

492
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,200
had planted a capitalist flag

493
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,360
in the heart
of the Communist capital.

494
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:56,080
It must have been
an extraordinary moment.

495
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,400
It must have been like
a blinding light, frankly, for them.

496
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:05,720
Remember, McDonald's was the unique,
global symbol of America.

497
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,400
The golden arches
signified American ideology.

498
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,680
So it was profound,
and it was historic.

499
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,720
It was almost like, "Here we go.
Here's westernisation in a burger."

500
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,920
While the Muscovites got burgers,

501
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,800
the West got a takeaway of optimism.

502
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,640
I think for a lot of people
watching it in the UK at the time,

503
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,400
there would have been
a feeling of hope.

504
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,800
You know,
it hadn't been that long before that

505
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,160
that there was a real fear,

506
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,680
in this country and elsewhere,
of a nuclear attack.

507
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,280
That there would actually be
a nuclear war.

508
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,160
And to suddenly see something
as kind of iconic

509
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,640
as a McDonald's
opening up in Moscow,

510
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,480
I think would have been
a symbol of hope to a lot of people.

511
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,320
The golden arches
were an immediate success in Moscow,

512
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,160
with over 30,000 people
served on the opening day.

513
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,840
A new record for a McDonald's
restaurant anywhere in the world.

514
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,200
The burger blitz was a success,
and over the next 30 years,

515
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,960
800 more McDonald's
would open in Russia.

516
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,720
But history has a horrible habit
of repeating itself,

517
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,960
and in May 2022,
32 years after this first opening,

518
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,560
the wall metaphorically
went up again.

519
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,280
Because of the Russian invasion
into Ukraine,

520
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,520
many Western companies
have decided to leave Russia.

521
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:31,680
And so now McDonald's
have decided to shut up shop

522
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,320
and serve Big Macs no longer
in Russia.

523
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,320
While the Russians
couldn't get enough beef,

524
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,040
back here,
we'd gone a bit bovine-phobic.

525
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,640
It all started in the '80s,

526
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,160
when our cows
contracted a deadly condition

527
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,160
that cost them their lives
and farmers their livelihoods.

528
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,800
Two government ministers have been
speaking about a new disease

529
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,000
which is worrying British farmers.

530
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,840
The disease, known as BSE,
affects cows and it sends them mad.

531
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,400
BSE, we called it.
It was also called mad cow disease.

532
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,720
Basically, it was a brain disease
that affected cattle.

533
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,840
REPORTER: Normally placid animals
become aggressive towards the farmer

534
00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,680
and other cattle in the herd.

535
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,840
Animals will often stumble and fall.
Within six months, they are dead.

536
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240
The vets believe the origins are
to do with changes in cattle fodder

537
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,960
that took place
in the early 1980s.

538
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,520
What had seemed to be a money-saving
decision to feed cattle bonemeal

539
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,520
made from the carcasses
of other dead animals

540
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,280
turned out to come
with a deadly cost.

541
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:42,600
For some reason,

542
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,920
somebody thought it was a good idea
to feed meat to cows.

543
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,240
Cows live on grass.

544
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,360
Cows live on, you know,
silage and fodder,

545
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,200
and it's not normal
for cows to eat other cows.

546
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,760
REPORTER:
It's thought that this feed

547
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,680
was infected
with the sheep disease scrapie,

548
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,040
which became transmuted
into the far more serious BSE,

549
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,600
now responsible
for the deaths of 300 cattle a week.

550
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,000
The disturbing images of cows
in distress were concerning enough.

551
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
But by 1990,
scientists were starting to worry

552
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,040
that mad cow disease
could infect humans.

553
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,240
The illness is a very severe one.

554
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,000
Very rapidly, it progresses
into what is called a dementia.

555
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,040
That is,
a severe impairment of memory.

556
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,040
Impairment of thinking ability,
confusion,

557
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,880
inability to look after oneself,
find one's way about,

558
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,960
dress one's self and so on.

559
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,880
Suddenly,
there was this feeling of, you know,

560
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,520
is it actually safe
to eat beef at all?

561
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,320
Is it safe to eat British beef?

562
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,280
REPORTER:
While local authorities act

563
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,640
on the basis of the varying advice
they've received,

564
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,720
the picture for most consumers
remains as confused as ever.

565
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,360
But the meat industry is worried

566
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:57,680
about the effect
further uncertainty could have.

567
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,880
Mad cow disease actually put anyone

568
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,560
with any sense off eating meat,

569
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,200
particularly mincemeat
and hamburgers.

570
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,160
The press were probably also
scaremongering about this disease.

571
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:14,040
"Oh, my goodness,
we're all completely crazy,

572
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600
"and we're all gonna get
this dreadful thing and die."

573
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,480
Because, you know,
that's what the press does.

574
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,280
They get a story
and they put a rocket under it.

575
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,920
The public needed reassurance,

576
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,480
so step forward
the man from the ministry.

577
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,360
The Agriculture and Food Minister
John Gummer has said

578
00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:33,080
there's no evidence that humans are
at risk from BSE or mad cow disease.

579
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,120
John Selwyn Gummer,
he was like, you know,

580
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:38,120
"We can't have people
not eating beef.

581
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,040
"We can't do this
to the beef farmers."

582
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,520
Those who are scaremongering not
only harm the agricultural industry,

583
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,160
but they do great harm
to individuals who get frightened.

584
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,600
So Gummer needed a cunning plan
to make Britain beefy again,

585
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,760
and came up with one
that was staggering in its ambition.

586
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,640
A photo opportunity was needed
to prove burgers were safe.

587
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,760
But who would take the crucial bite?

588
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,600
I really felt sorry for John Gummer.

589
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,000
He was trying to show
that he was absolutely sincere

590
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,000
in believing that this meat
presented no threat to human beings,

591
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,720
and to show that he was sincere,

592
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,720
he would feed it
to his own daughter.

593
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,600
The Agriculture Minister
John Gummer said he was wholly

594
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,040
and absolutely confident
that it was safe for the public,

595
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,840
and indeed his own children,
to eat.

596
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,400
So he was like, "Here I am at some
sort of agricultural show,"

597
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:30,680
I think, "with
my four-year-old daughter Cordelia,

598
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,720
"and I will now feed her a burger
to show that it's safe."

599
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,440
Even saying it, I can see
why someone would have said,

600
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,640
"Oh, hold on, I don't think that's
going to come out quite right."

601
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,840
Children don't tend to do
what you want them to do,

602
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,680
particularly if they are on camera.

603
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,080
As I remember, she was quite young,
and she said, "No."

604
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,640
SHE CHUCKLES
As young children tend to.

605
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,160
So he had to eat it himself.

606
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:59,200
So he quickly stuffed the burger
into his own mouth

607
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,160
and smiled as he was chewing
and swallowing that burger.

608
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,320
So John Gummer ate the hamburger
and said,

609
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360
"British beef is perfectly safe."

610
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,360
And sadly, it wasn't.

611
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,120
Six years later,
the government was forced to admit

612
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,600
there was a link between BSE
and its human form, CJD,

613
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,760
making even more of a mockery
of John Gummer's ill-advised stunt.

614
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,560
It's one of those moments,
you look back now and think...

615
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:28,840
INHALES SHARPLY

616
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,760
..shouldn't have done that.

617
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,640
Not to your kid. Not unless
you were absolutely sure...

618
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:38,440
..or you didn't like your children.

619
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,960
Of course, John Gummer was just a
foot soldier in the Tory Government.

620
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,760
But the five-star general in charge

621
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,320
was also about to face her
own Waterloo in 1990.

622
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,240
It was 11 years since the daughter
of a Grantham shopkeeper,

623
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,120
Margaret Hilda Thatcher,

624
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,960
had moved into a spacious des res
just off Whitehall.

625
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,200
Very excited,
very aware of the responsibilities.

626
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,040
In '79, she was new and fresh
and young and untried.

627
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,240
And I think the fact
that we'd elected a woman

628
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,080
meant that the nation
was ready for change,

629
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,680
for something different.

630
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,520
You know,
this was a ginormous achievement.

631
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,400
She was
the first woman Prime Minister

632
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,480
at a time when women were
few and far between in Parliament.

633
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,640
In the years that followed,
Margaret Thatcher's supporters

634
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,920
gloried at victory over Argentina
in the Falklands

635
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,160
and lapped up domestic policies

636
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,360
like the chance for council tenants
to buy their homes.

637
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,360
To the Tory faithful,
she could do no wrong.

638
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640
But she was loathed by the left.

639
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,480
They were desperate
to find one chink in her armour.

640
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,600
And in the late '80s,
her enemies were gifted it

641
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,120
in the shape of
a revolutionary new tax.

642
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,000
The government is about to tear up

643
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,520
the present system
of domestic rates,

644
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,840
and replace it with a fairer one.

645
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:59,240
And high time too.

646
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,600
The big, new idea
behind the poll tax

647
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,760
was that everybody would pay
the same for their local services,

648
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,760
no matter how much they earned.

649
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,760
The same level of services...

650
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,720
..at the same degree
of efficiency...

651
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:24,360
..will result in the same community
charge all over the country.

652
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,760
Of course, it wasn't known as
the poll tax,

653
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,920
Mrs Thatcher called it
"the community charge".

654
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,640
The community charge...

655
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,200
Well, nobody called it
the community charge.

656
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:40,200
And once, in Parliament, she began
by saying, "The poll... The...

657
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,440
"community charge."

658
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,920
So even she got it wrong.

659
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,560
But at that time,

660
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,920
nobody could predict just how wrong
Mrs Thatcher had got it.

661
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,680
The poll tax was clearly the bridge
too far for Margaret Thatcher.

662
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,320
She was advised by some people
within her own party

663
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,240
that, "This wasn't a very good idea,
Margaret."

664
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,640
But I'm not sure at this stage,

665
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,880
Margaret Thatcher is listening
to too many other people.

666
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,440
Opposition to the new tax
was growing.

667
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Many regarded it as unfair,

668
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,960
and protesters took to the streets
to make that point.

669
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,680
'Outside Cheltenham Town Hall,

670
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,520
'poll tax demonstrators
clashed with the police.

671
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,040
'There were several arrests as the
police moved in to disperse them.'

672
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,120
Fast forward to spring 1990,
and the poll tax powder keg

673
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,000
was about to blow up
in everyone's faces.

674
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:37,040
I beg everybody here
to give 100% support

675
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:42,800
to those who do not or cannot
or will not pay the poll tax.

676
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,480
On the 31st of March,
initially peaceful protests

677
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,080
disintegrated into
the worst violence

678
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,240
that had been seen on
the streets of London for decades.

679
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,800
'At Downing Street,
heavily guarded by the police,

680
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,640
'bottles and cans were thrown.

681
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,440
'In the last hour, there's been
more trouble in Whitehall

682
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,800
'with demonstrators throwing cans
and placards at mounted police.'

683
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,040
If you look at the rioting
in Trafalgar Square, it is brutal.

684
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,920
'The use of police horses
always carries a risk

685
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,240
'to those not
directly involved in trouble,

686
00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:18,760
'and one woman was knocked
to the ground and trampled.

687
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,120
'There were complaints from others
hurt as police cleared the streets.

688
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,040
'They argue that
such injuries are inevitable

689
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,320
'if the guilty deliberately
mingle with the innocent.'

690
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,600
There were over a hundred injuries
in just one day.

691
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,440
But, as she proved
over the last 11 years,

692
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,840
the lady was never for turning.

693
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:43,080
There is no excuse ever
for people turning to violence.

694
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,920
None whatsoever.

695
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,120
But even as London
licked its wounds,

696
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,840
the damage had spread
beyond the capital.

697
00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,040
The PM's popularity dived.

698
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,600
Her own electorate
had started to turn against her,

699
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,600
and within Whitehall, Tory MPs
began to whisper the unthinkable.

700
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,760
By 1990, gradually opinion
starts to harden that...

701
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,960
she's outlived
the good that she can do,

702
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,960
and that maybe the time is coming

703
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,480
when we have to think about
who to replace her with.

704
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,560
But who would be the one

705
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,560
to decisively stick their head
above the parapet?

706
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:27,080
Well, on November the 13th, 1990,
one former ally did just that.

707
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Sir Geoffrey Howe had been
in the government a long, long time,

708
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,600
and he had started off
as Margaret's first Chancellor.

709
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,880
And by the end of her reign,
by the end of the 1980s,

710
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:45,600
he was Foreign Secretary, and he was
being pushed around and yelled at,

711
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,480
and he was not gonna carry on
with that.

712
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,320
After enduring years
of tongue-lashings, Howe wanted out,

713
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,640
and delivered
a blistering broadside

714
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,360
in his resignation speech.

715
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,440
Geoffrey Howe was probably
the meekest, mildest man

716
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,160
you could imagine in politics.

717
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,480
He was just a quiet...
Looked like a bank manager.

718
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,680
And I think Mrs Thatcher
went in there thinking,

719
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,160
"This is gonna be
the same boring stuff."

720
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:16,200
But she was wrong. And Howe...

721
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,160
'The conflict of loyalty,

722
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,960
'of loyalty to my Right Honourable
friend, the Prime Minister -

723
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,440
'and in two decades together,
that instinct is still very real -

724
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,120
'and a loyalty to what I perceive

725
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,360
'to be the true interests
of this nation.

726
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,480
'That conflict of loyalty
has become all too great.'

727
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,720
We listened to it, and honestly,
our mouths dropped open,

728
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:39,720
because here was
this mild-mannered man

729
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,720
who was... vicious!
SHE CHUCKLES

730
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:46,680
I mean, it was, he was...
putting the knife into Maggie.

731
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:48,680
'I no longer believe it is possible

732
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,640
'to resolve that conflict
from within this government.

733
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,200
'That is why I resigned.

734
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,640
'In doing so, I have done what
I believe to be right for my party

735
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,080
'and my country.

736
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,840
'The time has come for others
to consider their own response

737
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,040
'to the tragic conflict
of loyalties,

738
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,160
'with which I have myself wrestled
for perhaps too long.'

739
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560
I mean, we were expecting
something big,

740
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:16,360
but we weren't expecting
his truth-telling to be so savage.

741
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,480
It was clear that that was
the beginning of the end.

742
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,160
For the first time,

743
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,920
Mrs T's authority
had been openly questioned.

744
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,160
Then Michael Heseltine
launched a leadership challenge,

745
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,000
and the gloves were truly off.

746
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:32,680
When I was standing
outside the embassy in Paris

747
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,320
waiting for the result,

748
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,360
13 million people
were watching the event live

749
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,640
on an extended six o'clock news -

750
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,960
it didn't stop at six thirty,
it went on to quarter to seven.

751
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,360
Once the result came in,

752
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,080
she hadn't done well enough -
JUST hadn't done well enough -

753
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,000
to avoid a second ballot.

754
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,200
But I thought,
"This is... This is cataclysmic."

755
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,560
152 of her own MPs are saying,

756
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,200
"We do not want you
to continue as Prime Minister."

757
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:05,080
In typically combative style,
the PM initially vowed to carry on.

758
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,520
Naturally, I'm very pleased

759
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,160
that I got more than half
the Parliamentary party,

760
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,840
and disappointed that it's not quite
enough to win on the first ballot,

761
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,760
so I confirm it is my intention

762
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,880
to let my name go forward
for the second ballot.

763
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,040
But two days later,
the Iron Lady melted

764
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,000
and declared she would be standing
down for the good of the party.

765
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,640
After 11 years,
Margaret Thatcher's reign was over.

766
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,880
She seemed so upset to be leaving
10 Downing Street that...

767
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,520
you kind of thought, "Well, you
know, you've been there a good...

768
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,200
"You've had a good innings."

769
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,320
You know, this wasn't
Liz Truss, there for two minutes,

770
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:46,400
but I think most people felt
she was gonna be there forever.

771
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,720
Mrs Thatcher's
three consecutive terms

772
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,080
marked the longest
continuous leadership

773
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,720
by a British Prime Minister
for over 150 years -

774
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,200
a record that remains intact
to this day.

775
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,600
But when she finally
left Downing Street,

776
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,440
she wasn't the only one
looking for a new job.

777
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,280
The Sun newspaper
rang me up and said, erm...

778
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,360
Er...

779
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,560
"We'd like to photograph you, er,
outside a job centre

780
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,320
"dressed as Mrs Thatcher.
Will you do it?"

781
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,520
And I said, "I don't... I don't..."
HE SPLUTTERS

782
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,600
"I don't think so! No."

783
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,480
They said,
"We'll pay you three grand."

784
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:20,720
I said...

785
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:23,200
"Where's the frock?"
HE CHUCKLES

786
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,600
Coming up,
even more drama from 1990,

787
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:30,800
when a controversy-causing
character turns up in Walford.

788
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,960
All right, Michelle?

789
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:40,040
By the start of the '90s,
by then in its sixth year,

790
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,280
EastEnders had established itself
as a soap behemoth,

791
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,680
regularly attracting
over ten million viewers.

792
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,840
The everyday lives
of the residents of Albert Square

793
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,440
had us enthralled
every Tuesday and Thursday.

794
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,840
We love the antics of Dirty Den...
Don't say a word.

795
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,200
..Dot Cotton...

796
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,040
Now, don't you get lippy with me,
I'll put you across me knee, sonny.

797
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,280
Mark!

798
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,840
..and one of the original
bad boys of soap, Mark Fowler.

799
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,440
Don't hit me, Mum. I don't like it.
It makes me lose my temper.

800
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,640
Get out! Just get out.

801
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,680
It's kind of lost
in the mist of time, this,

802
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,640
but there was a Mark Fowler
"mark one", an ur-Mark Fowler...

803
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,800
Oi, you, cheer up.
Naff off.

804
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:22,680
..played by David Scarboro.

805
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,040
All right.

806
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,280
So, I nick dinner money, and I buy
fags, and some days, I bunk off.

807
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,440
There was a kind of thuggish side
to Mark Fowler -

808
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,680
he wasn't a totally
attractive character.

809
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,960
Are you on heroin? Has Nick been
supplying you, is that it?

810
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,880
Look, I've gotta go.
You wait!

811
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:39,520
He seemed to be a racist...

812
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,600
Things are being nicked round here.

813
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,440
Girls. Our girls.
And we don't like it.

814
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,240
..he was accused of murder...

815
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,640
Where were you
on the day Reg Cox got done?

816
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:49,800
Given all this about him,

817
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,160
I'm not sure whether
Arthur and Pauline

818
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,440
would have been that dismayed

819
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,160
that he suddenly and mysteriously
vanished from their lives.

820
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,840
In 1990,
after David Scarboro's tragic death,

821
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,720
the character of Mark Fowler
roared back into Walford,

822
00:41:02,720 --> 00:41:06,440
with an apparent change of ways,
and a new face...

823
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:07,520
All right, Michelle?

824
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,320
..one that viewers of a certain age
were already very familiar with.

825
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:12,920
Thank you, Jenkins.

826
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,240
We all remember him of old
as, er, Tucker -

827
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:18,560
"Flippin' 'eck, Tucker!" -
from Grange Hill.

828
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,200
All right, Pong Head?
What do you want, Pint Size?

829
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,000
Nothing, just admiring your beauty,
in't I?

830
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,520
Clear off, or I'll sock you
in the jaw.

831
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,120
"Sock you in the jaw"? Where are
you from, Luton Airport? Shut up.

832
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,440
So, you have someone who's already
held in a great deal of affection

833
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,360
from the original cast
of Grange Hill

834
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:35,760
now coming into Albert Square...

835
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,560
I mean, it's a stroke of genius,
really.

836
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:38,640
I don't care.

837
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,480
Grange Hill's cheeky heart-throb
had headed east.

838
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,200
He'd grown up,
and so had his storylines.

839
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,760
We had to do something!
There's nothing you can do.

840
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:50,440
Including one that shocked
a nation of soap lovers.

841
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,480
At the time...

842
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,560
you'll remember, we had
those big adverts, you know,

843
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,640
about AIDS and HIV.

844
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,200
I was at work, I was working
with somebody with HIV,

845
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,760
there was a huge amount of stigma
around it. I mean, it was ghastly.

846
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,000
'Anyone can get it. Man or woman.

847
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,280
'So far, it's been confined
to small groups.

848
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,480
'But it's spreading.'

849
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:15,680
Throughout the '80s,

850
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,080
the government had warned
and informed us

851
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,840
about the deadly threat
of HIV and AIDS.

852
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,640
A hard-hitting TV campaign helped
spread a very important message.

853
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,240
'So don't die of ignorance.'

854
00:42:27,240 --> 00:42:28,800
But as the '90s began,

855
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,840
EastEnders producers
saw an opportunity

856
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,480
to show viewers about the reality
of living with the disease.

857
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,200
This thing that
I've gotta tell ya...

858
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,840
What is it, Mark?

859
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,880
Well, it's not as bad
as it might sound...

860
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,240
I mean, it could be a lot worse...
Mark, just tell us what you've done.

861
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:51,200
EastEnders are really good
at taking difficult storylines -

862
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:52,480
difficult things, actually,

863
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,520
that people are going through
in real life -

864
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,280
and saying,
"We're going to dramatise this,

865
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,160
"and we know you love the programme,

866
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,600
"and we know you love
the characters in it,

867
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,080
"and we're going to dramatise this

868
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,600
"in a way where you still feel held
throughout the story."

869
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:08,600
I've got a virus.

870
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,600
Virus?

871
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,560
"And we're gonna tackle
this incredibly difficult subject

872
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,080
"that still has
a huge stigma around it,"

873
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,240
which HIV did, at that stage.

874
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:21,000
Mm, what they call...

875
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,320
..HIV.

876
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,480
HIV?

877
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,400
Yeah, HIV.

878
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,360
And you are going to live it
with the characters.

879
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,440
You're gonna see the moral dilemmas
that are played out,

880
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:38,920
you know, over the kitchen table.

881
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,240
That's AIDS, innit?
You've got AIDS?

882
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:47,000
No. No, Mum. That's what
I'm trying to say. It's not AIDS...

883
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,960
Either you've got AIDS,
or you haven't!

884
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:53,440
No, that's not it, Dad!
I've got the virus. Look at me!

885
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,280
I'm not ill or nothing, am I?
I'm fine!

886
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,880
Mark's revelation
not only educated his own parents,

887
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,840
but millions of viewers too.

888
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,320
His condition was kept secret
from the Square,

889
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,480
but you know EastEnders -
a secret always comes out.

890
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:11,440
And when it did, Peggy Mitchell
naturally rose to the melodrama.

891
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:16,880
What the hell are you doin' here?
We're having a drink.

892
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,880
Oh, no, you're not.
You're leaving right now.

893
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,240
It was an extraordinary scene
in The Vic,

894
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:23,840
you know, you've got Mark
surrounded by his family...

895
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,080
You all right, love?

896
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,360
..all the residents of Walford
are looking on.

897
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,160
And for him to make that frank
confessional in front of everyone,

898
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,320
you can imagine the courage
that would take.

899
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:33,800
I'm HIV-positive.

900
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,960
I knew it.
You don't know anything.

901
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,120
I've got the virus.
But I ain't got the disease!

902
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,920
And there would have been people
at home living with the virus

903
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:46,320
who would've watched that scene,

904
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,120
and it would have resonated
with them just hugely.

905
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:50,640
I've known you lot for years.

906
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,160
And some of you won't even
pass the time of day with me.

907
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,120
You're even frightened
to breathe the same air as me!

908
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,920
You have to remember, like,
this was at a time in which

909
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,560
there was a large moral panic
about how you could get HIV.

910
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,720
You're not gonna catch it
from eating food from my store

911
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,200
or drinking
from the same glass as me.

912
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,680
You're not in any danger.

913
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,600
The fact is you've got nothing
to worry about.

914
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,720
I'm the one that's gonna die.

915
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,200
There isn't a day that goes by
that I don't think about it.

916
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,440
I remember
talking to Barbara Windsor

917
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,160
about that storyline... and...

918
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,680
..she felt sick when she
had to actually play... that part

919
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,840
because, of course,
a lot of Bar's friends were gay

920
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:39,400
and living with the virus.

921
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,960
I want him out of here.

922
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,400
Mrs Mitchell, don't you think
you're being a bit extreme?

923
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,320
Who asked you to stick your nose in?

924
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,760
Come on, Mark,
there's other pubs in Walford. No.

925
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:49,920
I like drinking here.

926
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:52,960
And you have someone like Peggy

927
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,760
who is giving it the full
"get out of my pub" to Mark Fowler,

928
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,160
flagging up the ignorance
of the time, thinking, you know,

929
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:00,440
"You've got AIDS."

930
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,320
You've got AIDS, Mark...

931
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,520
..and I won't have
that sort of thing in my pub.

932
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:08,920
I haven't got AIDS.

933
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,280
I get goose bumps now just actually
thinking about that performance

934
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,760
cos it's so out of joint
with who Barbara was.

935
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,600
She would've been a mouthpiece
for a lot of people at the time

936
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,520
who were living in ignorance

937
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,560
and, you know, were believing
the headlines about the virus

938
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,880
more so than the reality
of living with it.

939
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,120
Look, this is MY pub.

940
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:29,160
I say who drinks in here
and who doesn't.

941
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,160
Now get out of here
before I have the law on ya!

942
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,200
I think the fact that, er...

943
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:39,120
the way that it had been...
carefully researched...

944
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,280
They worked with
the Terrence Higgins Trust,

945
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,880
which is a charity, a HIV charity,

946
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,680
to ensure that it helped
remove prejudice and stigma

947
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,880
around what it meant
to be HIV-positive.

948
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,480
I think one of the spokespeople
from the Terrence Higgins Trust

949
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,800
said it did what
thousands of leaflets couldn't,

950
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,800
that storyline on EastEnders.

951
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,360
It shifted perceptions
in a really sensitive way,

952
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,800
a really moving way.

953
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:06,080
I'm HIV-positive.

954
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:09,440
Nothing I can do about it.

955
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,080
And perceptions
were also being shifted in 1990

956
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,000
by another moving BBC drama

957
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,040
which had the nation hooked
and shocked.

958
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,840
Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit
was incredibly controversial.

959
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,240
It was ground-breaking TV
at the time,

960
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:35,440
and it's still one of the best
TV adaptations to this day.

961
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,400
Based on Jeanette Winterson's

962
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,560
semi-autobiographical novel
of the same name,

963
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,360
this gritty three-part drama
caused an uproar

964
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,600
when it first aired in 1990.

965
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:46,920
I'm going home.

966
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,880
To think I brought you all the way
from that orphanage for this.

967
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,800
They say what's breed in the bone
comes out on the marrow.

968
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,640
Well, I wish you'd left me there!

969
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,160
So, what was it
that caused such a commotion?

970
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,760
Was it the sex?

971
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,240
Was it the cruel oppression
of its main character?

972
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,200
Or was it the portrayal
of radical religious zealots?

973
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,040
Well, actually, it was all three.

974
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:14,560
Let's sing Somebody Touched Me
and do our best for Jesus,

975
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,720
as he has done his best for us.

976
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:18,720
It's all about a young girl

977
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:20,720
that's growing up
in a household in Lancashire.

978
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:24,920
# I was sleeping
Somebody touched me... #

979
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:26,240
She's adopted.

980
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:28,280
Her adoptive mother

981
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:34,360
is an Evangelical Elim-Pentecostal
preacher Christian

982
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:39,080
very involved in the local
Pentecostal-Evangelical community.

983
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,120
# Glory, glory, glory... #

984
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,640
Pentecost is the Holy Spirit.

985
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,720
So, that's very charismatic,

986
00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,040
they speak in tongues,
other languages,

987
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:48,360
and they cast out demons.

988
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,000
So, they're big on demons,

989
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,680
which means everything
is judged as black and white.

990
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,480
Everything in life
is judged as black and white.

991
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,920
There is no room for grey.

992
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,840
You're a goodie or you're a baddie.

993
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,000
And Jess,
played by a young Charlotte Coleman,

994
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,840
would prove to be
an out-and-out baddie

995
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:09,480
in the eyes of the Pentecostals

996
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,760
by breaking
one of the biggest taboos of all.

997
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:17,040
The young girl, Jess,
realises that she's a lesbian.

998
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:18,920
She wants to explore her sexuality,

999
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,840
but she also wants to kick against
all of the restrictions around her -

1000
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,800
super-religious upbringing,
very homophobic.

1001
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,800
She's being forced into

1002
00:49:28,800 --> 00:49:31,600
a kind of way of life
that she doesn't agree with at all,

1003
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,720
and she begins to rebel.

1004
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,720
This was a drama
that tore up the taboo rule book.

1005
00:49:39,720 --> 00:49:44,000
These days, you'll probably find
LGBTQ sex on Countryfile,

1006
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,120
but back then, it was a shocker.

1007
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,040
These children are full of demons.
I'm not!

1008
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,080
Then they twisted
the controversy dial up to 11

1009
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,800
when Jess's pastor
decided to drive out her demons.

1010
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:01,560
We've been waiting for you.
I was about to go to school.

1011
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:04,920
Jesus... has been waiting for you.

1012
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,440
All of this series
is really hard to watch for me

1013
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,320
because I was attending
an Elim church,

1014
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,280
but the exorcism is
the hardest part for me to look at

1015
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,920
because I've seen
these kind of exorcisms.

1016
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,720
In the case of Jess, it's so brutal.

1017
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,560
Sometimes, the Devil scars you
as he comes free.

1018
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,040
You might be scarred, Jess.
You might not be pretty any more.

1019
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,360
PASTOR SHOUTS,
JESS WAILS

1020
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,360
JESS STRAINS

1021
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,640
She's so damaged,

1022
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,320
and you are watching
this young woman being damaged

1023
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,600
in, it feels like, real time.

1024
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,960
I'll struggle against the demon.

1025
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,640
But you see how much we love you?!
JESS GROANS

1026
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,960
And you think, "How did... Jeanette,
who wrote the book...

1027
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:56,440
"..the Jess character,

1028
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,400
"how did Jeanette Winterson
get through this?"

1029
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,840
Remember, this was on BBC Two
at 9.25 on a Wednesday night,

1030
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,080
so of course the critics
were queueing up to comment.

1031
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,240
Inevitably,
Mary Whitehouse waded in.

1032
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:12,960
You know, religion and sex,
they're her two favourite subjects.

1033
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,960
Put them together
and she gets very excited.

1034
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,280
But I think by that stage,

1035
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,800
Mary Whitehouse
was a slightly spent figure.

1036
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,520
She didn't have the potency

1037
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,680
that she had
back in the sort of '70s and '80s.

1038
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,360
I think the tide was already turning

1039
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,680
in terms of popular perception
of a bit of nudity,

1040
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:33,640
of girls kissing girls, you know,
or whatever else it was.

1041
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:35,360
We were starting
to get used to that.

1042
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:40,080
Mary Whitehouse predictably saw it
as the end of times...

1043
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:44,000
And the winner is
for the best drama series serial...

1044
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,960
Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit.
APPLAUSE

1045
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,040
..but BAFTA saw it as
a powerfully acted and written drama

1046
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,160
and gave it five nominations.

1047
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,800
Absolutely compelling viewing.

1048
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,840
Incredible acting.

1049
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,760
The story... is...
so true of its time.

1050
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,440
It's meant to be Jeanette's story
anyway,

1051
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:11,360
but the story could be
any number of LGBT people

1052
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,040
who were attending church

1053
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,800
or grew up in religious families
at that time.

1054
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,920
We've got more scandalous
sexual controversies coming up,

1055
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,920
courtesy of the Queen of Pop...

1056
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:26,920
At the time,
I probably didn't fully understand

1057
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:28,800
some of the images
I was seeing in that video.

1058
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,040
I'll level with you,
some things I still don't get.

1059
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,280
..while our future King causes
a right royal rumpus on horseback.

1060
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:37,080
It was everywhere.

1061
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,880
You know, "The heir to the throne,
what's he doing, you know,

1062
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,440
"doing something
so potentially dangerous?"

1063
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:50,400
We are checking
our controversy calendar for 1990,

1064
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,640
a big year to go wild in the aisles
in the UK.

1065
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,120
In April, we first said "guten tag"
to Germany's Aldi,

1066
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,680
and in December, it was "god dag"
to Denmark's Netto,

1067
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,080
but we were not happy shoppers
when it came to confectionery.

1068
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,800
In fact, there was outraged wailing

1069
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,840
when somebody, somewhere,
decided things had to change.

1070
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:19,360
Born in the USA in 1930,
the Snickers bar,

1071
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,840
as seen in this
delightfully lo-fi TV ad,

1072
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,760
came to Blighty in the late '60s,
where we renamed it Marathon.

1073
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,480
Why? Because it sounded healthier.

1074
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:30,640
No, really.

1075
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,520
Of course, the advert was huge
in the '70s.

1076
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:40,040
M-A-R-A...

1077
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,960
..T-H-O-N, Marathon.

1078
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,160
They were glamour.

1079
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:47,120
They were like the kids to be like.

1080
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,000
Marathon meant something.
It would give you strengths.

1081
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,400
It would not only come up peanuts
slice after slice,

1082
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,000
but it would make you run further.

1083
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,600
It would give you that energy.

1084
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:10,080
But in 1990, the men from Mars
made a controversial decision.

1085
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,520
Everyone except us
called it Snickers,

1086
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:16,560
and Britain was going to fall
in line with the rest of the world.

1087
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,080
I was shocked and horrified
when Marathon became Snickers.

1088
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,080
I liked a Marathon,

1089
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,720
and I saw no reason why
something that was named for a...

1090
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:31,040
..decent run should suddenly become
named after an unpleasant laugh.

1091
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:34,040
The mellifluous tones of
a national treasure were enlisted

1092
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:35,480
to break the news.

1093
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,760
STEPHEN FRY: Marathon has
changed its name to Snickers.

1094
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:39,400
It's still packed with peanuts

1095
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,560
and still covered
with the smoothest milk chocolate,

1096
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:43,320
but now the Marathon says Snickers.

1097
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,840
But even Stephen Fry's
chocolatey voiceover

1098
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,680
couldn't sugar-coat the shock, and
then the controversy really started

1099
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,080
when others got in
on the name-changing act.

1100
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,480
Marathon changing its name
opened the floodgates.

1101
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,280
Within a decade...

1102
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,200
Opal Fruits would be Starburst.

1103
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,280
Jif became Cif.

1104
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:08,080
But I think
there are people out there

1105
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:12,640
who think the reason
we're in the mess we are today

1106
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:17,520
all started when Marathon
changed its name to Snickers.

1107
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:18,640
How dare they?

1108
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,360
How dare they change
our Marathon bar

1109
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,520
and change it to
an American Snickers bar?

1110
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:25,600
It's just not on.

1111
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:28,480
What's the old saying?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

1112
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,400
Why did they fix it?

1113
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,640
It was great as Marathon.
Leave it alone.

1114
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,560
Of course, the real reason
for the change came down to money,

1115
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,680
which as we all know,
makes the world go round.

1116
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,480
By 1990, money-obsessed yuppies were
dancing all the way to the bank,

1117
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,000
doing big deals
on even bigger car phones,

1118
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:55,040
ditching their Filofaxes
for electronic PDAs,

1119
00:55:55,040 --> 00:56:00,240
and haring about the UK in the
newly-launched Lamborghini Diablo,

1120
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:02,840
yours for just 160,000,

1121
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,560
which was a lot of money
even back then.

1122
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:10,040
But that would have been small
change for a billionaire businessman

1123
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,680
starting to make waves
across the Atlantic.

1124
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,120
He was so rich,
he even had his own airline.

1125
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,560
Lots of people in the '80s and
the '90s had heard of Donald Trump.

1126
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:26,200
His private life
was incredibly public,

1127
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:27,440
and he wanted it to be so.

1128
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,080
All I know of Donald Trump
in the '90s

1129
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,760
is he was just professionally rich
and professionally quite irritating.

1130
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,360
You know, he was one of those people
who you wouldn't be surprised

1131
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,640
if he had an album out
at that point.

1132
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,400
You know, you wouldn't be surprised

1133
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,720
if he just went ice-skating in
the nude just to get in the papers.

1134
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,520
Best not to mentally picture
THAT image.

1135
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:48,920
Now, as we all know,

1136
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:52,520
Trump went on
to become America's 45th president,

1137
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,200
where it's fair to say
he was ever-so-slightly divisive.

1138
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,400
But what is it about the man
that's so compelling?

1139
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,400
The trouble with Trump
is publicity comes easy

1140
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,080
because you can't take your eyes
off him.

1141
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,280
Be it horror or love,

1142
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,680
in my case horror, I might add,
it's mesmeric.

1143
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,840
You cannot not watch him.

1144
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:17,840
But arguably,

1145
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:22,200
the man who's always been
most interested in Donald Trump...

1146
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,520
is Donald Trump himself.

1147
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:27,160
I was always amused
when I saw a documentary,

1148
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:30,960
and he sat in his New York office
at his big desk,

1149
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:31,960
which was covered...

1150
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,080
..in front covers of magazines
with him on it,

1151
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,760
and all the covers were facing him.

1152
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,120
And at that moment,

1153
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:46,000
you know
the guy is difficult to beat

1154
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,200
when it comes to narcissism.

1155
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,480
And in 1990,
Trump's love of press attention

1156
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,800
and one particular
newspaper headline

1157
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:55,960
ramped his notoriety sky-high.

1158
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:03,800
The story goes that a journalist
at the New York Post was in the room

1159
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,840
and heard Donald Trump
calling the editor,

1160
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,840
absolutely raging
that his now ex-wife Ivana,

1161
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,360
during this
very acrimonious divorce,

1162
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,840
had stolen the headlines in
a rival newspaper the day before.

1163
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,040
So he was asking to be on
the front page of the New York Post.

1164
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:22,440
And the editor said, "Well, look,

1165
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,400
"you can't be on the front page
of the New York Post

1166
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,680
"unless you've got a story."

1167
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,600
And the only kind of stories
that really make headlines are,

1168
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:30,800
you know, murder and sex.

1169
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,760
And so he was having a relationship
with the woman

1170
00:58:33,760 --> 00:58:36,840
who became his next wife, Marla.

1171
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,800
And so he said,
"Well, Marla says that sex with me

1172
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,440
"is the best sex she's ever had."

1173
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,840
I adore women, and I go out with
women, and I do it with respect.

1174
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,200
And of course the editor said,

1175
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:50,960
"Well, that's great,
that is a headline,

1176
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,480
"but we do need it to be confirmed,
to be corroborated."

1177
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,760
And allegedly, he said,
"Well, she's here.

1178
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,560
"She's here. I'm gonna...
I'll ask her, shall I?"

1179
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,200
So he went off the phone, said...
"Honey..."

1180
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:03,800
No, I won't do the impression,

1181
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,200
"Was that the best sex
you ever had?"

1182
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:08,680
And this voice over the room went,
"Yes."

1183
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,400
Now, what we never know is
was that just Donald Trump,

1184
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,600
because he has admitted
that he's done this before,

1185
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:18,280
just throwing his voice,
or did she really say that?

1186
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,920
Do I think
it was Donald Trump who said yes?

1187
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,520
Yes.
Of course it was Donald.

1188
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,720
Of course, it's in his nature.

1189
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,760
People. Fucking men, sorry.

1190
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:33,760
Theresa May didn't do that, did she?

1191
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,720
"Scuse me,
just wanna get the papers,

1192
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,000
"yeah, best shag he's ever had."

1193
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:43,160
Later that year, the Donald and
Ivana Trump divorce was finalised,

1194
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,960
with the New York Times
reporting Ivana walked away

1195
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:49,360
with a settlement
that included $14 million,

1196
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,240
a 45-room mansion,

1197
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,960
and an apartment in the Trump Plaza.

1198
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,200
And as for Donald, well,
we all know how that ended.

1199
00:59:58,240 --> 01:00:01,520
It's just something
that's worked out so well for me.

1200
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,320
# Catch a glimpse of myself
In the mirror and I go like... #

1201
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:11,760
From the man who would be President
to America's First Lady of Pop,

1202
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,680
Madonna Louise Ciccone,
or Madge to her friends,

1203
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,640
ruled the charts in the 1980s,

1204
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:21,800
with a whopping 21 top ten hits
under her pointy gold bra thing.

1205
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,360
But how could she stay on top
in the '90s?

1206
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,520
CROWD SCREAMS
Well, by doing what she did best -

1207
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,360
outrage.

1208
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,240
When we get to 1990,
she's just getting into gear now.

1209
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:40,840
I mean, you'd had Like A Virgin,
you'd had Papa Don't Preach,

1210
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,320
but that was just her
dipping her toe in the water.

1211
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,840
I mean, we get to Justify My Love
and it's like,

1212
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,480
"OK, guys, I'm here now. I'm here."

1213
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:53,040
Co-written by her friend,
the guitar-toting Lenny Kravitz,

1214
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:56,880
Justify My Love soared to number two
in the UK charts.

1215
01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:03,240
But it was the video
that justified our shock.

1216
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,520
So, here we go.
Madonna checks into a Paris hotel.

1217
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:07,600
Three days later,

1218
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,560
she emerges with a promo video that
ticks all of her favourite boxes.

1219
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:18,040
So, in the video we have gay sex
and bisexual sex,

1220
01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,720
and we have voyeurism,
and we have S&M.

1221
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,880
# Justify
Justify my love... #

1222
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,280
It has everything
that we expect from Madonna.

1223
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,280
# My love
I'm open

1224
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:32,160
# Ooh, my love
And ready... #

1225
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:33,760
I think it's such an amazing video

1226
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,400
because it is completely playing
with gender and sexuality,

1227
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,600
and it's all about female fantasy.

1228
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,000
For some, the material girl's latest
offering was an artistic statement.

1229
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,080
But for others,
it was simply true blue.

1230
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:51,680
What you need to understand about
the Madonna Justify My Love video

1231
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,040
is that it came out in an era where,

1232
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,760
as a hugely hormonal teenage boy,
your only access

1233
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,240
to what certain older relatives
would call "rude ladies"

1234
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,240
was the discarded porno mag
in the woods.

1235
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,720
# Ooh, my love... #

1236
01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:10,640
Then all of a sudden, Madonna
brings out Justify My Love...

1237
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,440
# To justify my love... #

1238
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:16,720
At the time,
I probably didn't fully understand

1239
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:18,920
some of the images
I was seeing in that video.

1240
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,400
I'll level with you. There's
some things I still don't get.

1241
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,760
There is no story to this video.
Let's not pretend there is one, OK?

1242
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,000
She turns up at the freaking hotel,
she has a good time, and she goes.

1243
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,120
That's the video.

1244
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:34,640
# I just wanna be your lover... #

1245
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,480
I remember just being so shocked.

1246
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,440
I thought it was pure porn
at that age.

1247
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,080
I was like,
"This must be what porn is like."

1248
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,440
Because it was so sexually explicit
for, you know, the time.

1249
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:51,920
And the powers that be agreed -
almost like she planned it (!)

1250
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:53,880
The video was banned from MTV

1251
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,080
and only broadcast here
after the 9pm watershed.

1252
01:02:58,080 --> 01:02:59,440
Job done.

1253
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,400
Madonna had joined
previously banned video artists

1254
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:05,400
like Frankie Goes To Hollywood
and Duran Duran.

1255
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:07,560
But she wasn't
going to take it lying down -

1256
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,240
unlike in the video itself.

1257
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:13,320
To cash in on the controversy,

1258
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,680
the business-minded blonde
put the erotic epic on sale,

1259
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,960
and her fans voted
with their VHS recorders,

1260
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:24,040
making the video single
the first ever short-form film

1261
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,800
to be certified multiplatinum
in the United States.

1262
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,680
Justify My Love
is Madonna at her very best.

1263
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:33,560
I absolutely love the song.
I love the video.

1264
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,920
And looking at it now,
it doesn't look that dated.

1265
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:38,760
And it's also slightly funny now

1266
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,480
that it was considered
outrageous enough to ban

1267
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,800
because when you look at it,
you know, you can't see anything.

1268
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:48,200
It's all quite vanilla.
Everyone keeps their clothes on.

1269
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,720
You see far more outrageous things,
you know,

1270
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,720
in soap operas
at eight o'clock at night now.

1271
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:56,640
Let's leave the Queen of Pop

1272
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:59,960
and head
to the future King of the UK.

1273
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:02,920
How the royals
must look back on the '80s fondly.

1274
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,120
It was all going so well.

1275
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:08,640
The decade began with Charles
and Di's fairy tale marriage,

1276
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,120
uniting the nation
with hope for the future.

1277
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,760
But then the future came along,
as it so often does.

1278
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:20,840
By 1990, cracks
were starting to show for Charles

1279
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,040
and not just in his marriage.

1280
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,200
The Prince of Wales
has broken his arm

1281
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,480
after a fall during a polo match.

1282
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,280
The Prince was playing at
Cirencester Park in Gloucestershire

1283
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,760
when he lost his balance
and fell from his horse.

1284
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,560
NEWSREADER: The Prince of Wales
was playing in a semi-final match

1285
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:36,920
when the accident happened.

1286
01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:40,360
He was riding his pony, Echo,
in the second chukka of the match

1287
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,240
when he lost his balance
as he leaned forward to make a shot.

1288
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,240
He fell heavily to the ground.

1289
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,880
He was put on a stretcher
by a doctor and ambulance crew,

1290
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,720
who are always
stationed at the park,

1291
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,400
and taken to the local hospital
just outside Cirencester.

1292
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,080
It was everywhere.

1293
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,320
It was the headlines,
it was every news bulletin.

1294
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,520
You know, "The heir to the throne!

1295
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:02,720
"What's he doing," you know,
"riding a horse,

1296
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,360
"and doing something
so potentially dangerous?"

1297
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,320
And at the time, there was
a kind of a backlash from people

1298
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:11,520
like the Burke's Peerage mob,
who said, "Oh," you know,

1299
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:14,080
"Prince Charles
should have more responsibility,"

1300
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,040
and, "We can't have
the heir to the throne

1301
01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,080
"behaving in such a reckless manner

1302
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:21,120
"and potentially killing himself
in a polo accident."

1303
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:25,320
I don't know who it was who said
that the Prince of Wales should...

1304
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:28,560
pack in these kamikaze pursuits,

1305
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,760
but mind his own business.

1306
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:34,560
The Prince of Wales was a youngish
man, and he loved playing polo.

1307
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:35,960
Good for him.

1308
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,320
Despite the future king
being in a sling,

1309
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,200
Charles kept on chukka-ing,

1310
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:45,040
and only hung up his mallet
15 years later in 2005.

1311
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,040
Prince Charles is giving up polo.

1312
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,280
At the age of 57, he's decided
that he's played his last chukka.

1313
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,240
After more than 40 years
in the saddle,

1314
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,000
the royal horseman
had won many a trophy

1315
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,640
and raised millions for charity.

1316
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,160
But polo
was to cause an even bigger break,

1317
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:05,880
since he reportedly met a young lady
called Camilla Shand at a match,

1318
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,640
a tryst that would lead
to a few juicy headlines of its own.

1319
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,080
I think, with all the headlines
that the royal family have had

1320
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:14,880
over the last couple of years,

1321
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,640
they would now be really,
really grateful

1322
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:21,480
if the most controversial headline
that emerged was,

1323
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,560
"Prince breaks his arm
playing polo."

1324
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:27,480
Coming up after the break,

1325
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,280
reversed vinyl
leads to a violent act

1326
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,560
that threatens to bring
a heavy metal group into meltdown.

1327
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:37,280
And the sky's the limit
for these rooftop rioters.

1328
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,400
Up until that point,
the only time we'd ever seen, like,

1329
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:42,280
a prison riot like this
was on a film.

1330
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,120
MUSIC: 'Living After Midnight'
by Judas Priest

1331
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:50,320
In the 1980s,

1332
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:53,520
hit singles like Breaking The Law
and Living After Midnight...

1333
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,960
# Living after midnight... #

1334
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,240
..made rocking Brummies
Judas Priest

1335
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:03,480
one of our most successful purveyors
of the heaviest of metals.

1336
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,040
But then
the bottom fell out of their world,

1337
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,520
as the much-loved rockers
became embroiled

1338
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,800
in controversy across the Atlantic,

1339
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:15,720
climaxing in one of 1990's
most high-profile US court cases.

1340
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,640
The evidence in this case will show

1341
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,400
that on December 23rd, 1985,

1342
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:24,600
Raymond Belknap took this shotgun...

1343
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,840
..placed it under his chin...
and pulled the trigger.

1344
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:37,480
1985. Got these
two American teenagers in Nevada,

1345
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,240
James Vance, Raymond Belknap.

1346
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:43,480
They are, I guess, what you
would call the local misfits, right?

1347
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,880
They never really fit in
in their town.

1348
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,760
They spent the night...

1349
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,960
firstly getting drunk,
then getting stoned,

1350
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,800
and then listening
to this Judas Priest record on loop

1351
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,560
over and over and over again.

1352
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:00,600
And they felt that the record

1353
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:05,000
had subliminal messages in it
telling them to commit suicide.

1354
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:06,560
And that's what they did.

1355
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:08,960
They both took a gun
and shot themselves.

1356
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:12,360
One survived, and one died.

1357
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:16,240
It takes quite a while for anyone
to start singling out Judas Priest

1358
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,600
for potentially being...
responsible for this.

1359
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:22,960
Because what happens
immediately after the shooting

1360
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:25,560
is that James Vance
has to have very,

1361
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,760
very extensive
reconstructive surgery.

1362
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,160
It's clear that his life
will never be the same again.

1363
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:33,640
It only comes to light in a letter

1364
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,600
that he writes to Ray Belknap's
family, where he says,

1365
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,600
"Well, I think it might have been
the music that made me do it."

1366
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,000
Although James Vance
survived the shooting,

1367
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,640
he died three years later, in 1988.

1368
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,480
The families
wanted closure and compensation,

1369
01:08:49,480 --> 01:08:53,320
so, in 1990,
they set out to sue Judas Priest

1370
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:57,040
for a staggering
$6.2 million in damages.

1371
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,400
Understandably,
it was a trial that was played out

1372
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:02,160
in front of the world's media.

1373
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:05,320
Today's testimony really sums up
what this case is all about,

1374
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,480
which is subliminal
or hidden messages

1375
01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:09,000
in the music of Judas Priest,

1376
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,440
specifically
in the Stained Class album.

1377
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:14,800
Now, attorneys came to court today
fully armed with computers

1378
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:17,120
and high-tech equipment
to make their points.

1379
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,920
What's at stake here isn't just
the fate of a heavy metal band,

1380
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:22,680
what is being questioned,
in a legal sense,

1381
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,720
is whether it is possible to...
use subliminal messages

1382
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,720
to make people
commit extreme violence.

1383
01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,400
Apparently, if you
played their records backwards,

1384
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:41,800
there were subliminal lyrics
inciting kids to kill themselves.

1385
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:46,040
And there's one passage in the song
Better By You, Better Than Me

1386
01:09:46,040 --> 01:09:48,840
which sounds
a little bit like someone saying,

1387
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,120
"Do it, do it, do it."

1388
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:55,120
And that is the part that
the prosecution focused on most.

1389
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:57,120
Lead singer Rob Halford

1390
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,800
found himself
swapping his usual microphone,

1391
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:02,560
this time
for one in a Nevada courtroom.

1392
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:06,080
LAWYER:
Are there subliminal "Do its"

1393
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:08,440
on the Better By You,
Better Than Me song?

1394
01:10:08,440 --> 01:10:10,400
Absolutely not.

1395
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:12,800
JUDAS PRIEST RECORD
PLAYED INTO COURT

1396
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,000
The hearing lasted for 17 days,

1397
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,960
as the band's fans
saw these leather-clad rock gods

1398
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:19,560
in a very different light.

1399
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,320
Rob Halford,
the lead singer of Judas Priest,

1400
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,040
his onstage persona was sort of...
I mean...

1401
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:28,920
He used to sometimes look
like he was wearing

1402
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:30,800
a... like, a gimp costume.

1403
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:34,800
Full leather, the studded cap,
chaps, and the whole works.

1404
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,000
That's correct.

1405
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,880
But when he was on trial
in America...

1406
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:44,880
..they just looked small and... sad.

1407
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:48,600
And I just remember
feeling really sorry for them

1408
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,400
because... they'd been drawn into
the eye of a storm

1409
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,400
that was of not their making.

1410
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:58,120
The outcome of it
was that Judas Priest won,

1411
01:10:58,120 --> 01:11:01,400
but, you know,
the toll on them was pretty huge.

1412
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,280
On August the 24th, 1990,
all charges were dropped,

1413
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,960
and soon after that,
Rob Halford left Judas Priest

1414
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,840
and wouldn't rejoin the band fully
until 2003.

1415
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,840
These days, 50 years after forming,

1416
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:18,200
older, wiser and, yes, heavier,

1417
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:21,480
the band are back,
and packing out stadiums everywhere.

1418
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:27,400
Rob Halford rejoined
the Judas Priest fold

1419
01:11:27,400 --> 01:11:29,200
after just over a decade.

1420
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,040
But these fans had to wait longer
for what they wanted.

1421
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:36,200
They may look like
metal enthusiasts on a night out,

1422
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:40,920
but they are actually fans of
a more intergalactic entertainment,

1423
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,560
and after 18 years lost in space,

1424
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:47,400
their favourite TV series
came back to Earth in a big way.

1425
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,200
'Space - the final frontier.

1426
01:11:53,560 --> 01:11:57,520
'These are the voyages
of the starship Enterprise.

1427
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:02,040
'Its continuing mission -
to explore strange new worlds...'

1428
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:06,240
Yes, they kept the immortal opening
words from the original series,

1429
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:07,320
but after that...

1430
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,280
'..to boldly go
where no-one has gone before.'

1431
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:15,800
They really went
where no Star Trek had been before.

1432
01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:19,680
Wasn't it fantastic
to have Star Trek back in the 1990s?

1433
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,960
We had all been watching those
repeats of the '60s episodes on TV.

1434
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:25,960
When Star Trek: The Next Generation
came through,

1435
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:28,600
it seemed like something
impossibly good.

1436
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:32,400
And it was also something that was,
like all Star Trek is,

1437
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:36,440
really focused on a sort
of utopian way of living.

1438
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,960
It was much more touchy-feely
than the old Star Trek.

1439
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,360
I'd just love to hear
more of your poetry.

1440
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:42,560
PICARD CHUCKLES
NERVOUSLY

1441
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,600
It was very politically correct,
you know, it had a counsellor,

1442
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,640
and it had this sort of...
It, it was quite, er, you know...

1443
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,320
It was full of good messages
about how to behave.

1444
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,360
And it was offering
this vision of the future

1445
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:56,120
where basically everything
seemed sorted out.

1446
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,520
But the makers still got explosive

1447
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,920
with both their effects
and storylines.

1448
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,760
EXPLOSION

1449
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:08,680
In 1990, they set their coordinates
for the Constellation Controversy

1450
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:12,600
when AI android Data
suggested to Captain Jean-Luc Picard

1451
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,880
that maybe terrorism
could be justifiable?

1452
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,360
I have been reviewing
the history of armed rebellion,

1453
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:20,760
and it appears that terrorism
is an effective way

1454
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:22,800
to promote political change.

1455
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:23,880
Yes, it can be.

1456
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,680
But I have never subscribed
to the theory

1457
01:13:26,680 --> 01:13:29,960
that political power
flows from the barrel of a gun.

1458
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,640
Yet there are numerous examples
when it was successful.

1459
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:36,280
The independence
of the Mexican state from Spain,

1460
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:39,640
the Irish Unification of 2024,
and the Kenzie Rebellion.

1461
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:44,120
This was really controversial
in Ireland and the UK at the time,

1462
01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:47,920
because Northern Ireland
was still engaged in the Troubles,

1463
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,320
so the IRA was still fighting
at that time.

1464
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:52,120
Yes, I am aware of them.

1465
01:13:52,120 --> 01:13:55,640
Then would it be accurate
to say that terrorism is acceptable

1466
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,720
when all options for peaceful
settlement have been foreclosed?

1467
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,880
There were still British troops
on the ground in Northern Ireland,

1468
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:04,160
there was still
sectarian violence going on.

1469
01:14:04,160 --> 01:14:08,640
I think if Data had said,
"Oh, Ireland was reunited in 2024

1470
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,040
"because everybody learned
to get along together,

1471
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:15,320
"and there was this, this, this kind
of scrupulous democratic process..."

1472
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,840
I think it would have been
much less of an issue.

1473
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:22,160
But Data's data
didn't match the reality of 1990,

1474
01:14:22,160 --> 01:14:26,760
and his controversial comment
saw the BBC ban the episode.

1475
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,320
The BBC would not show that episode.

1476
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:34,600
In fact, the episode
wasn't shown at all

1477
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,520
on British television until 1992,

1478
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:41,440
when it was shown on Sky with
that bit of dialogue edited out.

1479
01:14:41,440 --> 01:14:44,320
It was finally shown
with the dialogue edited in

1480
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,520
on BBC Two in 2007,

1481
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,840
but in the after-midnight
repeat slot.

1482
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:56,120
And it's still never been shown
on RTE in Ireland

1483
01:14:56,120 --> 01:14:59,000
because the thought
that Ireland could be reunified

1484
01:14:59,000 --> 01:15:03,480
and that somehow the IRA could
have had something to do with it

1485
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:05,280
was just anathema.

1486
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:12,640
But while in space, Captain Picard
believed violence achieves nothing,

1487
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,560
back on Earth, certain residents
of a certain institution

1488
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:18,480
were putting that theory
to the test.

1489
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,560
Rioting has broken out
at Strangeways Prison in Manchester.

1490
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:25,800
About 50 prisoners are on the roof.

1491
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,000
According to unconfirmed reports,

1492
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,640
some prison officers
have been taken hostage.

1493
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:33,120
'Fire swept through
part of Strangeways tonight,

1494
01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:35,360
'while firemen fought
to bring it under control

1495
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,280
'in the face of missiles
hurled by inmates.'

1496
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,000
These aren't
belligerent roofing contractors,

1497
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,000
but rather inmates
at Strangeways Prison, Manchester.

1498
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:47,000
Over 25 days in April 1990,

1499
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,520
these "prisoners on the roof"
took their protest to the slates.

1500
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:55,200
One of the things
that made Strangeways really unique

1501
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,480
was that we had never seen that
type of insubordination in a prison

1502
01:15:59,480 --> 01:16:03,520
on our TV screens. We'd never seen
that level of rioting.

1503
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,680
'More than 100 inmates have made
their way onto the roof,

1504
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,000
'where they ripped up tiles
and hurled them at people below.

1505
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,200
'Police say that
more than a thousand prisoners

1506
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,640
'were on the loose inside the jail,
smashing up cells.'

1507
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,960
And, of course, this was the days
before social media.

1508
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:20,840
The only time we'd ever seen, like,
a prison riot like this

1509
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:24,160
was on a film, or on a TV show.

1510
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:25,720
'There are unconfirmed reports

1511
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,560
'that prison staff
may have been taken hostage.

1512
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,080
'The area has been sealed off,

1513
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:32,560
'and police officers in riot gear
are at the scene.'

1514
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:38,680
But now we're actually watching

1515
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,560
live footage of something
happening in real time.

1516
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,440
And it went on for such a long time.

1517
01:16:44,440 --> 01:16:46,960
It was basically
on the news every night.

1518
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,160
And this was being beamed
right into our living rooms.

1519
01:16:50,160 --> 01:16:53,320
This was a real-life soap opera
at altitude,

1520
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,280
with recognisable
returning characters, drama,

1521
01:16:56,280 --> 01:16:58,000
and, of course, controversy.

1522
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,440
'They'd smashed in windows
in the centre of the prison,

1523
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:03,520
'and many of the inmates

1524
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,040
'were wearing
prison officers' uniforms or hats.'

1525
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,240
The rooftop riots
were a very public embarrassment -

1526
01:17:09,240 --> 01:17:11,960
an admission of a lack of control
from the authorities,

1527
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:15,960
which they were determined to
rectify quickly and dramatically.

1528
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:17,160
'The chief weapon has been

1529
01:17:17,160 --> 01:17:20,840
'an unceasing barrage of sirens
from police on the ground,

1530
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:22,200
'and from the police helicopter

1531
01:17:22,200 --> 01:17:24,600
'hovering above
the rioting inmates' heads,

1532
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,600
'although they appear unconcerned.

1533
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,200
'Even at night, the helicopter
flies in low across the roof,

1534
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:32,920
'emitting a high-pitched howl.'

1535
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:35,400
Day after day,
the drama continued.

1536
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:41,800
The Strangeways protests
lasted an entire month,

1537
01:17:41,800 --> 01:17:44,400
but it felt like
much longer than that,

1538
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:48,920
partly because the media
were covering it every day.

1539
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,240
As the images
of the defiant inmates

1540
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:53,440
were beamed into our front rooms,

1541
01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:56,320
some viewers started
to take their side.

1542
01:17:56,320 --> 01:17:58,520
I think initially,
people were shocked and thought,

1543
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,760
"Oh, my God, these are... these are
probably just violent people

1544
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,640
"who are, you know...

1545
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,920
"desperately bored of being in
their cells and just kicking off."

1546
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:11,160
But, in fact, as it went on,
you began to understand why.

1547
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:14,280
And they became to be seen
as kind of renegades,

1548
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,960
and almost, to some people, heroes.

1549
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:18,560
'Since the beginning of the siege,

1550
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:20,960
'relatives of prisoners
have been arriving at Strangeways

1551
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:22,600
'to see what's going on.

1552
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,320
'Whole families have turned up,

1553
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:26,640
'standing for hours
in the cold and rain.'

1554
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,840
Some supporters even went there,
did that, and wore the T-shirt,

1555
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:32,560
but hardly surprisingly,

1556
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,040
the prison management
weren't in the mood for fun.

1557
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:37,880
What we know about the injuries

1558
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,280
that prisoners
have inflicted upon each other...

1559
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:44,640
is another example of...

1560
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,600
the extent of the violence,

1561
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,640
and what I would actually describe
as an explosion of evil.

1562
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:54,200
That explosion of evil
came with a price.

1563
01:18:54,200 --> 01:18:57,640
Two deaths,
and injuries to almost 200 inmates,

1564
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,560
police, and prison officers.

1565
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,640
Finally, on the 25th of April, 1990,

1566
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:06,840
after three weeks of chaos,
still defiant,

1567
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,640
the last five inmates to surrender
were cherry-picked from the roof.

1568
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:15,040
It had been the longest riot
in British penal history,

1569
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:17,440
and it certainly
left behind a legacy -

1570
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:21,080
a four-year rebuilding programme
to repair the damage,

1571
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:24,800
at a cost to the taxpayer
of over £90 million.

1572
01:19:24,800 --> 01:19:27,440
And then, eventually,
came the inquiry.

1573
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,560
What was interesting about it

1574
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,800
was that it became
a much bigger discussion.

1575
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,480
Not just, "How did these inmates
get out of their cells?

1576
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:41,400
"How did they overpower
the prison officers?"

1577
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,280
It then led into
a much bigger conversation

1578
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,680
about prison conditions,

1579
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:50,080
and why it was
that these men had done this.

1580
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:51,960
What had been the trigger?

1581
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:53,800
The inquiry announced
by the Home Secretary

1582
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,440
will be conducted by Lord Justice
Woolf, an Appeal Court judge.

1583
01:19:57,440 --> 01:19:59,680
It's the first inquiry
into a prison riot

1584
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:01,920
by a senior judge in recent times,

1585
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:04,120
and will be separate
from the police investigation.

1586
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,360
Lord Justice Woolf will be looking,
not only at the riots themselves,

1587
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,200
but also the events
leading up to them,

1588
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,200
and that will give him the chance,
if he wants to,

1589
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,560
to look at the role of Britain's
overcrowded inner-city prisons.

1590
01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,440
His report could therefore
have a key influence on penal policy

1591
01:20:17,440 --> 01:20:19,680
well into the 21st century.

1592
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:24,800
It started as a sort of crime story,
and a story about sort of violence,

1593
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:27,120
and a very important incident
at the prison.

1594
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,560
But when the inquiry concluded,

1595
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:33,600
big changes came about
as a result of that riot.

1596
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:39,080
For example, sanitation slopping out
was abolished,

1597
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:43,520
more basic rights
about contact and communication

1598
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,120
were given to prisoners.

1599
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:48,560
What was undoubtedly
a horrible, horrible event,

1600
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,720
which was bloody and violent
for lots of people,

1601
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,720
it did catalyse
a real kind of revolution

1602
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,440
in public policy
around the penal system.

1603
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:09,480
Coming up in our final instalment
of nefarious naughtiness from 1990,

1604
01:21:09,480 --> 01:21:12,120
neighbours become
more than just good friends

1605
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:15,720
for this Aussie pop star
and her hot-rocking Romeo.

1606
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,920
There were lots and lots
of rumours about it at first,

1607
01:21:17,920 --> 01:21:19,640
and no-one believed it.

1608
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:22,160
And we raise a glass
to a football legend

1609
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:26,360
who scored an own-goal with
this infamous chat show appearance.

1610
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:27,560
Oh, it's good to see you again.

1611
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:31,400
What you're witnessing is so sad -
it's the tragic demise of a genius.

1612
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:33,280
AUDIENCE GIGGLES
What are you laughing at?

1613
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:36,280
These people don't know what
they're laughing at half the time.

1614
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:42,000
# Put your hand on your heart
And tell me... #

1615
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,440
Hooray! It's the late 1980s,

1616
01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:46,880
back when the charts
were pretty much owned

1617
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,480
by Stock, Aitken, and Waterman.

1618
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:51,560
The hit factory's production line

1619
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,080
included Rick Astley
and Jason Donovan.

1620
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,200
But arguably,
the number one slice of fun

1621
01:21:57,200 --> 01:21:59,600
came in this tiny
Antipodean package.

1622
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,120
Kylie Minogue
was the ultimate good girl.

1623
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,680
She was pop's princess,
squeaky-clean, loads of fun,

1624
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,040
the girl that you had
on your bedroom wall

1625
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:13,360
on a poster from Smash Hits.

1626
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:18,440
She was everyone's girl next door,
she was just this burst of sunshine.

1627
01:22:18,440 --> 01:22:24,400
We just saw this gorgeous younger
sister we all had all of a sudden.

1628
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,880
# Come on, baby
Jump up... #

1629
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,080
That's why she became so sort of
phenomenally popular here.

1630
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:35,040
# Well, I think you got the knack
Ohh... #

1631
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:38,840
Of course, some fabulously
'80s videos also helped.

1632
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:40,920
In the Locomotion video,

1633
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,560
you see Kylie Minogue
dancing her socks off

1634
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,520
in the best Lycra
and primary colours

1635
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,280
that the '80s has to offer.

1636
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:52,280
She's squeaky-clean,

1637
01:22:52,280 --> 01:22:56,800
and everything is about being
the best dancer at the school disco.

1638
01:23:00,360 --> 01:23:04,240
In 1989, it was
a denim-on-denim love fest,

1639
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:06,840
as Kylie teamed up
with Jason Donovan.

1640
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,960
These two had already been
a squeeze in Neighbours,

1641
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,640
but was there romance
away from Ramsay Street?

1642
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:15,000
CHILD: 'Do think you're going
to get married in real life?'

1643
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,280
KYLIE CHUCKLES
Well...

1644
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:17,640
Well, are you?
JASON CHUCKLES

1645
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:18,720
I think, I mean...

1646
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:20,880
To each other, or do you mean
to anybody else, Lindsay?

1647
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:22,240
'To each other.'

1648
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:24,440
Well, I don't think so.
Kylie and I...

1649
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:26,640
Well, we've actually
worked together for a long time,

1650
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:28,680
and, er, we've been
really good friends.

1651
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:30,600
Obviously, the characters
have worked so well

1652
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,280
that people tend to believe
that it's more than what it is on...

1653
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:34,760
on, er, on television.

1654
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:37,960
It turned out Jason was fibbing.

1655
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:41,840
They had been romantically
involved, but controversially,

1656
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:46,040
another Aussie musician had decided
to do the locomotion with Kylie.

1657
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,000
After you've been having
white bread for a few years,

1658
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:54,160
maybe you just want something
a bit more crunchy and spicy.

1659
01:23:55,160 --> 01:23:57,520
# Suicide blonde... #

1660
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:58,800
And here is that spice!

1661
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,680
Lead singer and head hottie
of INXS,

1662
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:03,960
Michael Hutchence
was the leather and studs

1663
01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:06,240
to Kylie's rara skirts
and leggings.

1664
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:09,480
# Suicide blonde

1665
01:24:09,480 --> 01:24:12,880
# Suicide blonde
Was the colour of her hair

1666
01:24:12,880 --> 01:24:14,240
# Like a cheap distraction... #

1667
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:18,840
Michael Hutchence was rock 'n' roll
through and through.

1668
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:22,080
There he was, he looked dangerous.

1669
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,120
He looked the absolute
sort of epitome of...

1670
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:30,520
you know, in the '60s, that,

1671
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:32,680
"Would you let your daughter
marry a Rolling Stone?"

1672
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:33,920
You know, it was like...

1673
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:36,440
Men admired him,
and women fell in love with him.

1674
01:24:36,440 --> 01:24:41,560
And in 1990, Kylie couldn't
get Michael out of her head.

1675
01:24:41,560 --> 01:24:44,000
There were lots and lots
of rumours about it at first,

1676
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:46,000
and no-one believed it.
No-one believed it.

1677
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:47,880
And then they have that bit

1678
01:24:47,880 --> 01:24:50,160
where they're spotted out
for the first time...

1679
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:52,520
"Oh, they're a couple."

1680
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:54,720
And how exciting?
It was really, really exciting!

1681
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:58,960
I should say so!
Even those firmly plugged into pop

1682
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,560
hadn't seen this
controversial coupling coming.

1683
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,800
What was so incredible about
Michael Hutchence and Kylie Minogue

1684
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,480
is that, if you work
for a magazine like Smash Hits,

1685
01:25:09,480 --> 01:25:10,840
which I did at the time,

1686
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,480
we could go back and look
at the quotes where Kylie had said,

1687
01:25:15,480 --> 01:25:17,920
"Hmm! Michael Hutchence...
Not sure about that."

1688
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:19,840
Cos they'd always be asked
about each other,

1689
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,560
because they were Australian -
I know, it's that sad.

1690
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:25,840
But also, Michael Hutchence does say
in another interview in Smash Hits,

1691
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:28,440
"Kylie Minogue?
Fine, but she sings a bit high."

1692
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:29,680
Or something like that!

1693
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,200
So, there's this thing that
they weren't necessarily suited,

1694
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:36,520
and they'd sort of slightly
dissed each other in the press.

1695
01:25:36,520 --> 01:25:38,480
But the dissing turned to kissing.

1696
01:25:38,480 --> 01:25:40,920
The unlikely love match
was confirmed,

1697
01:25:40,920 --> 01:25:44,520
and quickly, our girl next door
really came of age.

1698
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:51,320
We know what happens when dirty
meets clean - clean gets dirty.

1699
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,600
And that's what happened
in the case of Kylie Minogue.

1700
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:58,000
She started to look like a female
version of Michael Hutchence.

1701
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,040
And, you know,
she started to sizzle.

1702
01:26:01,040 --> 01:26:04,480
But that sizzle burned out
after just two intense years

1703
01:26:04,480 --> 01:26:07,520
of a relationship
scrutinised on the front pages.

1704
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,480
Then, like an evil soap Lothario,

1705
01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:12,600
Hutch called it a day
in dramatic fashion.

1706
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,600
I think Kylie was, you know,
naturally, absolutely heartbroken.

1707
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:22,600
I mean, Michael, this beautiful,
talented singer from INXS,

1708
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,440
doing so well all around the world,
and then Kylie, who...

1709
01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:28,560
We never really saw her
loved-up with anyone,

1710
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,480
so we thought,
"Ooh, this could be it!"

1711
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:32,520
And so short lived.

1712
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:35,040
Apparently, he dumped her
after she flew out to Japan!

1713
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:37,720
Can you believe that?
Who dumps Kylie?

1714
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:39,960
Well, Michael Hutchence,
apparently.

1715
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:41,920
But he did leave Kylie

1716
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:46,120
with a new, edgier attitude, style,
and persona, which fans loved!

1717
01:26:46,120 --> 01:26:48,760
So, swings and roundabouts.

1718
01:26:48,760 --> 01:26:50,680
Now she's sort of this everywoman

1719
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,600
who can, you know,
do the sex bit on stage

1720
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,120
and then do the cute bit on stage
and then do the mature bit on stage.

1721
01:26:57,120 --> 01:27:01,080
And I think it just gave her
a credibility that lasts...

1722
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:02,800
to this day.

1723
01:27:02,800 --> 01:27:05,000
While Kylie continues to flourish,

1724
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,640
tragically, Michael Hutchence
took his own life

1725
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:10,280
in a Sydney hotel room in 1997.

1726
01:27:11,480 --> 01:27:13,320
'Fans crowded outside the cathedral

1727
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,160
'to pay their last respects
to the Australian musician.

1728
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:19,560
'Kylie Minogue was among
the celebrities at the funeral.'

1729
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,400
I mean, the irony was we were...

1730
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:24,640
You know, people sort of
worried about her, and,

1731
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,920
"Oh, she's a delicate flower, and
he's going to corrupt her," and...

1732
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:31,000
and yet, she's the survivor.

1733
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,520
She is the ultimate survivor,
you know.

1734
01:27:33,520 --> 01:27:36,360
She survived breast cancer,
and she survived, you know,

1735
01:27:36,360 --> 01:27:38,560
a whole career of ups and downs.

1736
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:41,840
And, poor guy,
Michael Hutchence didn't survive.

1737
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:45,560
So, in lots of ways, he was
the much more vulnerable of the two.

1738
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:51,520
Yes, surviving in show business
can be tricky,

1739
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,520
but one man, who did it
with a twinkle in his eye,

1740
01:27:54,520 --> 01:27:57,640
is at the centre of tonight's
final controversy.

1741
01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:59,880
APPLAUSE
Wogan was the chat show of the day.

1742
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:04,040
Monday, Wednesday, Friday.
7pm, live. And he got everybody.

1743
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:09,320
Terry Wogan seemed
constantly amused by his own fame.

1744
01:28:09,320 --> 01:28:13,880
But for ten years, he offered up
his sofa to a parade of superstars.

1745
01:28:13,880 --> 01:28:18,120
That's right, nobody did chat
better than El Tel.

1746
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:23,880
The man was a broadcasting genius,
and I don't say that lightly.

1747
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:26,840
Other talk-show hosts
watched with jealousy,

1748
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:31,080
as by 1990, Terry was lining up
icons on a regular basis.

1749
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:32,560
Hollywood A-listers...

1750
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:36,280
You're basically a very decent,
nice, quiet, well-behaved man.

1751
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:37,960
Yes, I am.
LAUGHTER

1752
01:28:37,960 --> 01:28:40,160
..to British pop and rock royalty!

1753
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:42,360
It's nice to be in the charts
with someone fatter than me.

1754
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:43,920
It's wonderful.
LAUGHTER

1755
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:45,680
So, there...
When are you making a record?

1756
01:28:45,680 --> 01:28:47,080
LAUGHTER

1757
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:49,840
He even did
Prime Minister's Questions,

1758
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:53,280
but that year, two celebrated faces
staked their claim

1759
01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,520
to being amongst Terry's
most famous, or...

1760
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:57,720
infamous guests?

1761
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:59,200
Welcome Nicolas Cage!
APPLAUSE

1762
01:28:59,200 --> 01:29:01,560
Nicolas Cage,
when he came onto Wogan, was...

1763
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:03,040
He was just, "Wow!"

1764
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:05,480
He comes running on,
he does, like, a somersault,

1765
01:29:05,480 --> 01:29:07,680
which he nearly misses with.

1766
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:09,560
And then he's doshing
all this money out,

1767
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,360
and I was like,
"Wow, this is... this is manic!"

1768
01:29:14,440 --> 01:29:16,760
I'm sure he took his top off
and gave it to Wogan.

1769
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:19,320
No, no, I gotta give you
my Wild At Heart T-shirt.

1770
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,560
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
Hey!

1771
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:23,320
He gives him the T-shirt,
he's got...

1772
01:29:23,320 --> 01:29:26,520
He's bare-chested on Wogan,
giving Wogan his T-shirt.

1773
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:29,680
I think Wogan was a bit bemused,
didn't really know what to do.

1774
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:31,480
I'll just put this jacket back on.

1775
01:29:31,480 --> 01:29:33,000
It's a big night for me,
I can tell you!

1776
01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,760
And the leather jacket goes back on,
classic.

1777
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:37,080
Do you wanna rob a bank with me?

1778
01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,560
They're all closed now,
we'll have to wait until Tuesday.

1779
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:40,840
Do you get off work soon?

1780
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:42,560
It's a bank holiday, so Tuesday.
OK. OK.

1781
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:44,400
It was like he was a 15-year-old.

1782
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,000
I loved him.
APPLAUSE

1783
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,600
So, let's be polite and say
Nick Cage was "high on life".

1784
01:29:49,600 --> 01:29:53,160
But 1990's
most controversial chat show guest

1785
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,800
was stimulated
by something slightly stronger.

1786
01:29:56,800 --> 01:29:58,360
The Good, The Bad And The Bubbly

1787
01:29:58,360 --> 01:30:00,720
is the entirely suitable title
of the biography

1788
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:02,520
of an enigmatic Irishman,

1789
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:06,040
who started out by just wanting
a football for Christmas.

1790
01:30:06,040 --> 01:30:08,720
LAUGHTER
AUDIENCE: Aww!

1791
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:11,600
So, what happened to the man
whom Pele himself called

1792
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,280
"the greatest footballer"?
Let's ask George Best!

1793
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:16,440
APPLAUSE

1794
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:19,920
George Best comes on,

1795
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,640
and there's probably that moment
when you're looking at someone,

1796
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:23,760
and you're thinking,

1797
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,320
"Are you under the influence
of drink... or not?"

1798
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,400
And then, pretty quickly,
you know that he is.

1799
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:32,800
Well, it's good to see you again.

1800
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:34,800
When you saw George Best on there,

1801
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:37,640
your first thing is,
"Brilliant, what a rebel.

1802
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:40,440
"What a lad. Ah, well done, George.
Good effort, well done, well done."

1803
01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:42,360
What is important in life?

1804
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:44,240
Friends...

1805
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:45,440
People.
Football?

1806
01:30:45,440 --> 01:30:48,440
Football, yeah, still. Yeah.

1807
01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,360
The ladies?
Ladies are still important, yeah.

1808
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:52,640
AUDIENCE CHUCKLES

1809
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:55,160
And then the further away
you get from that...

1810
01:30:55,160 --> 01:30:59,400
what you're witnessing is so sad,
it's the tragic demise of a genius.

1811
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:01,600
What about the booze,
is that important to you?

1812
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,800
The booze is still important, yeah.
LAUGHTER

1813
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:06,640
He is the definition of someone
who pissed his talents up the wall.

1814
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:08,840
Get off. No, no!
LAUGHTER

1815
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,280
And it is
a really awkward interview,

1816
01:31:12,280 --> 01:31:15,040
because you can see Terry
is supporting him as much as he can.

1817
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,120
What about football? What's your
opinion when you look at...

1818
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,040
I mean, there was
a great upsurge of interest

1819
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:22,440
when, when England did so well
at the World Cup this time.

1820
01:31:22,440 --> 01:31:26,760
And George is there, doing his best
to give a brilliant interview.

1821
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:29,520
But the audience are laughing,
but they're not laughing-laughing,

1822
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:33,280
they're sort of tittering, and you
can see it throws George slightly.

1823
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,120
And he actually
talks to the audience

1824
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:36,760
and sort of says,
"What's going on?"

1825
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:39,360
What are you laughing at?
LAUGHTER

1826
01:31:39,360 --> 01:31:42,160
These people don't know what
they're laughing at half the time.

1827
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,800
Terry Wogan, you know, as always,
dealt with it incredibly gracefully.

1828
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:48,600
But I-I just look back on it now,

1829
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:50,800
and it just seems
really, really sad.

1830
01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:54,400
Do you still feel that your...
your career was cut short? No.

1831
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:57,320
You feel you gave...
you gave your money's worth?

1832
01:31:57,320 --> 01:31:59,160
I don't like bullshitters.
Yeah.

1833
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:00,760
AUDIENCE GIGGLES

1834
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:02,120
GEORGE TITTERS
Fair enough.

1835
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:04,800
And it was live.
Is this live? No.

1836
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,400
No, we can edit that out
in a minute.

1837
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:11,600
Terry Wogan worked for the BBC, so
if you work for the BBC, guess what?

1838
01:32:11,600 --> 01:32:13,040
There aren't any adverts.

1839
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:14,840
So it's not like he can suddenly go,

1840
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,360
"Well, we're gonna wrap this up now,

1841
01:32:16,360 --> 01:32:18,080
"thank you very much
for joining us today."

1842
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:19,560
Because he knows, in his ear,

1843
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,200
he's probably got another
five or six minutes to fill...

1844
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:24,840
Can I say "shit"?
LAUGHTER

1845
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:26,800
I don't think so. I don't think so.

1846
01:32:26,800 --> 01:32:29,320
..and they don't have anything else
they can just slot in.

1847
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:32,080
So Terry is probably
hearing the gallery saying,

1848
01:32:32,080 --> 01:32:34,920
"Keep going," looking at George,

1849
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:39,280
working out what he can ask him
without it being too controversial.

1850
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,080
You had a reputation for
knocking around with a lot of girls.

1851
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:44,800
Terry, I like screwing, all right?
LAUGHTER

1852
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:48,040
It was a really difficult situation,

1853
01:32:48,040 --> 01:32:51,600
and I think Terry Wogan
was brilliant in it, as ever.

1854
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:53,000
Such a professional.

1855
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:54,920
So what do you do
with your time these days?

1856
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:55,960
Screw.
I see.

1857
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:58,240
LAUGHTER
Ladies and gentlemen, George Best!

1858
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:02,400
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE