1
00:00:38,570 --> 00:00:40,060
- Charismatic.
- Opinionated.

2
00:00:40,171 --> 00:00:41,195
I'd have to point out he was short.

3
00:00:41,306 --> 00:00:42,500
But he was a giant of a man.

4
00:00:42,607 --> 00:00:43,807
Really a good storyteller.

5
00:00:44,008 --> 00:00:45,532
He was completely selfless.

6
00:00:45,643 --> 00:00:46,443
- Animated.
- Kind.

7
00:00:46,544 --> 00:00:47,704
- Jubilant.
- Caring.

8
00:00:47,812 --> 00:00:49,905
- Devilish.
- Laid-back, very approachable.

9
00:00:50,014 --> 00:00:50,912
Can I say things

10
00:00:51,015 --> 00:00:52,846
that are not completely
flattering and wonderful?

11
00:00:52,951 --> 00:00:56,352
He had the capacity
to have the worst possible gas.

12
00:00:56,454 --> 00:00:57,978
And he'd be proud of that.
"Yep!"

13
00:00:58,089 --> 00:00:59,386
He wasn't a saint.
He was a hell of guy.

14
00:00:59,490 --> 00:01:01,390
He was just so intelligent,

15
00:01:01,492 --> 00:01:04,723
and, um, I'm gonna cry.

16
00:01:07,265 --> 00:01:09,927
I'm sorry.

17
00:01:22,814 --> 00:01:25,977
Why are you sad?
Why?

18
00:01:26,084 --> 00:01:27,847
Oh, I'll tell you about it someday.

19
00:01:29,487 --> 00:01:30,613
Do you know who that is?

20
00:01:30,722 --> 00:01:32,121
Andrew.

21
00:01:32,223 --> 00:01:33,850
Do you know who Andrew is?

22
00:01:33,958 --> 00:01:36,654
I don't know.

23
00:01:38,162 --> 00:01:41,689
Why did Andrew get killed?

24
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,665
Because somebody hurt him, buddy.

25
00:01:44,769 --> 00:01:46,464
I'm an only child,
and I'll get around to why this

26
00:01:46,571 --> 00:01:47,833
is of any importance whatsoever,

27
00:01:47,939 --> 00:01:51,932
but, trust me, there's a theme.

28
00:01:52,043 --> 00:01:54,170
Where were you when you found out?

29
00:01:54,279 --> 00:01:56,747
Melanie, who's on the front desk,

30
00:01:56,848 --> 00:01:57,872
calls back and says,

31
00:01:57,982 --> 00:02:00,416
"Kate, there's a policeman from
Sunnyvale on the line for you.

32
00:02:00,518 --> 00:02:01,507
Do you want to talk to him?"

33
00:02:01,619 --> 00:02:03,314
And I said, "Oh, yes,
put it through to the office."

34
00:02:03,421 --> 00:02:05,389
"Are you Kathleen Bagby?" I said yes.

35
00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:07,390
"I've got a message
here from Pennsylvania.

36
00:02:07,492 --> 00:02:09,016
You're to call this number.

37
00:02:09,127 --> 00:02:12,062
It's the coroner's office.
You've got bad news."

38
00:02:12,163 --> 00:02:15,189
I said, "Is my son dead?"

39
00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:17,461
And he said,
"I can't tell you that, madam,

40
00:02:17,568 --> 00:02:18,865
but you've got terrible news."

41
00:02:18,970 --> 00:02:20,995
I dialed this number
that he'd given me.

42
00:02:21,105 --> 00:02:22,629
And it was a man, an irate man.

43
00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:24,571
The coroner's office was closed down.

44
00:02:24,676 --> 00:02:26,007
There was nothing he could do about it.

45
00:02:26,110 --> 00:02:27,236
"You have to call back
tomorrow morning."

46
00:02:27,345 --> 00:02:29,074
I called back
to the Sunnyvale Police Station,

47
00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:30,112
so he gave me another number,

48
00:02:30,214 --> 00:02:32,774
and then I got through
to Sgt. Krulac, and he said,

49
00:02:32,884 --> 00:02:35,284
"Your son is dead
under suspicious circumstances.

50
00:02:35,386 --> 00:02:38,878
Have you got any idea
why he was in the park?"

51
00:02:38,990 --> 00:02:43,427
I said, "My son is dead?
Murdered?"

52
00:02:43,528 --> 00:02:45,393
He said yes.

53
00:02:45,496 --> 00:02:48,397
And then I called David.

54
00:02:48,499 --> 00:02:53,129
And I said to him,
"Andrew's dead."

55
00:02:53,237 --> 00:02:55,705
And he said, "No!"

56
00:02:55,807 --> 00:02:58,640
And I heard him throw the phone.

57
00:02:58,743 --> 00:03:01,678
I called Sgt. Krulac back,
and I said, "We're coming,"

58
00:03:01,779 --> 00:03:03,007
and he said,
"Well, that's good."

59
00:03:03,114 --> 00:03:04,274
Through that flight,

60
00:03:04,382 --> 00:03:06,816
we thought we'd go get Andrew,

61
00:03:06,918 --> 00:03:08,977
bring him back to California,

62
00:03:09,087 --> 00:03:10,418
get everything organized, whatever,

63
00:03:10,521 --> 00:03:13,012
and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.

64
00:03:14,158 --> 00:03:17,150
That was the first plan.

65
00:03:17,261 --> 00:03:19,161
Obviously, we didn't do that.

66
00:03:19,263 --> 00:03:20,457
And then she gave me the list to call,

67
00:03:20,565 --> 00:03:21,532
and we started calling.

68
00:03:21,632 --> 00:03:23,395
I came home, and there was
a message from Barbara.

69
00:03:23,501 --> 00:03:24,832
- Kate called me.
- It was Tuesday morning.

70
00:03:24,936 --> 00:03:25,834
I was just coming out of surgery.

71
00:03:25,937 --> 00:03:28,167
- I was doing something...
- I was in the living room.

72
00:03:28,272 --> 00:03:30,536
How many people got
a kick in the head from this?

73
00:03:30,641 --> 00:03:31,801
Everybody always says,

74
00:03:31,909 --> 00:03:34,969
"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"

75
00:03:45,089 --> 00:03:47,080
I came home on November 7, 2001,

76
00:03:47,191 --> 00:03:48,988
to find a message from my sister.

77
00:03:49,093 --> 00:03:50,822
Hi. It's Heather.
It's about 9: 15.

78
00:03:50,928 --> 00:03:53,089
At 3:41 p.m., I called her back.

79
00:03:53,197 --> 00:03:54,721
She told me to sit down.

80
00:03:59,037 --> 00:04:01,562
In the original news,

81
00:04:01,672 --> 00:04:05,904
they said,
"Unidentified man in his 30s

82
00:04:06,010 --> 00:04:08,001
was found in hospital scrubs."

83
00:04:08,112 --> 00:04:10,740
None of those words
described who he was,

84
00:04:10,848 --> 00:04:13,840
and they could put them on paper
and make them true.

85
00:04:13,951 --> 00:04:17,580
Nobody said, "This person,

86
00:04:17,688 --> 00:04:21,089
this wonderful person, was hurt."

87
00:04:21,192 --> 00:04:23,024
We met in first grade

88
00:04:23,127 --> 00:04:25,220
at St. Andrew's School
in Saratoga, California,

89
00:04:25,329 --> 00:04:27,957
and I soon came to think of him
as my closest friend.

90
00:04:28,066 --> 00:04:30,193
It was here,
in the San Jose Bay Area,

91
00:04:30,301 --> 00:04:32,826
scattered across the suburbs
that make up Silicon Valley,

92
00:04:32,937 --> 00:04:34,165
that we all grew up.

93
00:04:34,272 --> 00:04:35,364
There was Chris.

94
00:04:35,473 --> 00:04:37,737
Do I remember how I met Andrew?
It was second grade.

95
00:04:37,842 --> 00:04:38,740
And Matt.

96
00:04:38,843 --> 00:04:42,279
I can say without shame
that we bathed together.

97
00:04:42,380 --> 00:04:43,278
Michelle.

98
00:04:43,381 --> 00:04:44,973
He was the first friend I made
my first day of school.

99
00:04:45,083 --> 00:04:45,981
Jon.

100
00:04:46,084 --> 00:04:47,346
We met the first day of class

101
00:04:47,452 --> 00:04:49,477
because of our names,
Atkinson and Bagby.

102
00:04:49,587 --> 00:04:50,485
Olivier.

103
00:04:50,588 --> 00:04:51,748
We talked for about 20, 30 minutes,

104
00:04:51,856 --> 00:04:53,255
and I realized,
"Wow, this guy's pretty cool."

105
00:04:53,357 --> 00:04:54,157
Heather.

106
00:04:54,192 --> 00:04:55,352
Oh, I'm sure you got to hear
things I didn't get to hear.

107
00:04:55,460 --> 00:04:56,358
Between the two of us,

108
00:04:56,461 --> 00:05:00,329
we might actually be able to put
together a half-decent story.

109
00:05:00,431 --> 00:05:01,329
And there was me.

110
00:05:01,432 --> 00:05:02,831
My name's Kurt,
and I'm a filmmaker.

111
00:05:02,934 --> 00:05:05,164
I'm Kurt Kuenne,
and I play Indiana Jones.

112
00:05:05,269 --> 00:05:06,998
He appeared in every movie
I made growing up.

113
00:05:07,105 --> 00:05:08,504
We made a movie!

114
00:05:08,606 --> 00:05:11,097
He loved playing bad guys...

115
00:05:11,209 --> 00:05:12,176
Shut up!

116
00:05:12,276 --> 00:05:13,504
Jeff, get the cocaine.

117
00:05:13,611 --> 00:05:15,442
A's, huh?
You must be a smart boy.

118
00:05:15,546 --> 00:05:17,878
...and having
a free pass to smoke and swear

119
00:05:17,982 --> 00:05:18,914
in front of his parents.

120
00:05:19,016 --> 00:05:22,144
I will fuck you up!
Kiss my ass, you son of a bitch!

121
00:05:22,820 --> 00:05:24,549
Christ, start the fucking car
and get out of here!

122
00:05:24,655 --> 00:05:26,748
Fuck you!
Fuck all you fucking people!

123
00:05:26,858 --> 00:05:28,792
I did not say the F-word.
I'm sorry.

124
00:05:28,893 --> 00:05:30,326
Which was probably
kind of a cool release

125
00:05:30,428 --> 00:05:33,124
for a kid who made
Eagle Scout by age 15.

126
00:05:33,231 --> 00:05:35,062
Mrs. Bagby, having watched it

127
00:05:35,166 --> 00:05:37,225
where Andrew was running around
yelling and screaming,

128
00:05:37,335 --> 00:05:38,233
kind of went...

129
00:05:38,336 --> 00:05:39,803
I can't really remember being...

130
00:05:39,904 --> 00:05:41,303
"Oh, that's not my son!"

131
00:05:41,405 --> 00:05:42,963
Perhaps you have a different idea

132
00:05:43,074 --> 00:05:44,974
that I got all upset about it.

133
00:05:45,076 --> 00:05:45,940
"Not my son!"

134
00:05:46,043 --> 00:05:47,840
And, eventually,
I even got them in on the act.

135
00:05:47,945 --> 00:05:49,742
Son of a bitch, you little shit!

136
00:05:49,847 --> 00:05:51,007
You're a pain in the ass.

137
00:05:51,115 --> 00:05:52,844
- You little bastard!
- Does that give you the right

138
00:05:52,950 --> 00:05:54,918
to go yelling about
your penis on the air?

139
00:05:55,019 --> 00:05:56,418
It wasn't always fun and games.

140
00:05:56,521 --> 00:05:58,284
- You son of a bitch!
- Ow! Jesus!

141
00:05:58,389 --> 00:05:59,287
Did I actually hit you?

142
00:05:59,390 --> 00:06:01,415
- I didn't hurt your hand, did I?
- Yes, but don't worry about it.

143
00:06:01,526 --> 00:06:03,255
And if you knee me in the balls
again, I'm going to kill you.

144
00:06:03,361 --> 00:06:05,090
And I know I drove him nuts sometimes.

145
00:06:05,196 --> 00:06:06,220
Could you do that one more time?

146
00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:07,991
- One more time.
- Okay, one more time.

147
00:06:08,099 --> 00:06:08,766
One more time.

148
00:06:08,866 --> 00:06:10,060
I want to see that one more
time. That was perfect.

149
00:06:10,168 --> 00:06:11,829
The famous "one more time" line.

150
00:06:11,936 --> 00:06:14,427
If I hear him say
"one more time" one more time,

151
00:06:14,539 --> 00:06:15,437
I'm gonna wring his neck!

152
00:06:15,540 --> 00:06:17,974
Jesus Christ, Kurt.
What do you want?

153
00:06:18,075 --> 00:06:19,269
No, no.
I'm just getting...

154
00:06:19,377 --> 00:06:21,811
But despite it all,
he always supported me.

155
00:06:21,913 --> 00:06:24,177
Kurt, another winner!
Yes!

156
00:06:24,282 --> 00:06:25,408
My God, what are you trying to do?

157
00:06:25,516 --> 00:06:27,450
Give our genius a heart attack?

158
00:06:27,552 --> 00:06:29,747
None of that.
What, do we kiss now or... Oh!

159
00:06:29,854 --> 00:06:31,287
He even invested
in my first feature film

160
00:06:31,389 --> 00:06:33,118
while he was working to save
for medical school.

161
00:06:33,224 --> 00:06:35,158
Everything was perfect.

162
00:06:35,259 --> 00:06:37,420
I don't know what happened.

163
00:06:37,528 --> 00:06:39,826
We got bigger, and we got laid!

164
00:06:39,931 --> 00:06:40,829
At his memorial service,

165
00:06:40,932 --> 00:06:43,264
I talked with his med-school
friend Anthony, who told me...

166
00:06:43,367 --> 00:06:45,358
One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,

167
00:06:45,469 --> 00:06:50,372
or that we had in common,
was photography.

168
00:06:50,474 --> 00:06:52,442
I had no idea he took pictures,

169
00:06:52,543 --> 00:06:53,942
and I'd known him for 22 years.

170
00:06:54,045 --> 00:06:56,536
What else didn't I know?

171
00:06:56,647 --> 00:06:58,581
I was never going to get
to visit him at his hospital

172
00:06:58,683 --> 00:07:01,243
and see what he was like as a doctor.

173
00:07:01,352 --> 00:07:02,683
I would never be going to his wedding

174
00:07:02,787 --> 00:07:05,551
where I would finally meet his
entire family at the reception.

175
00:07:05,656 --> 00:07:06,623
He would never be telling me

176
00:07:06,724 --> 00:07:09,625
anything I didn't already know
about him.

177
00:07:09,727 --> 00:07:12,355
So I decided to make this movie,
to travel far and wide,

178
00:07:12,463 --> 00:07:14,294
to interview everyone
who ever knew and loved him,

179
00:07:14,398 --> 00:07:16,229
to learn everything there was to know,

180
00:07:16,334 --> 00:07:19,064
and to make one last movie with him.

181
00:07:19,170 --> 00:07:21,035
I had no idea
how many years it would take

182
00:07:21,138 --> 00:07:23,038
or how I would even know
when I was done.

183
00:07:23,140 --> 00:07:26,769
But the longer I waited,
the more memories would be lost.

184
00:07:26,877 --> 00:07:28,606
So I started at home in California,

185
00:07:28,713 --> 00:07:30,237
and, as soon as I could,
I grabbed a camera.

186
00:07:30,348 --> 00:07:31,246
Okay, Andrew, ready?

187
00:07:31,349 --> 00:07:32,373
- And said...
- Action!

188
00:07:36,287 --> 00:07:39,188
How would I describe Andrew to
someone who had never met him?

189
00:07:39,290 --> 00:07:42,259
The man never wore pants.
He only wore shorts.

190
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,486
That's right.
Constantly!

191
00:07:48,432 --> 00:07:50,093
Well,
Andrew was very good at pool.

192
00:07:50,201 --> 00:07:52,362
Quite frankly, he was
a pool shark, is what he was.

193
00:07:52,470 --> 00:07:55,030
Well, he had a good teacher.

194
00:07:58,676 --> 00:08:01,372
When we first met him, he had
this thing with his fingernails.

195
00:08:01,479 --> 00:08:03,242
Oh, yeah, he'd always
bite his fingernails.

196
00:08:03,347 --> 00:08:05,178
They looked like they'd been
through a shredder.

197
00:08:05,283 --> 00:08:06,181
Too late.

198
00:08:14,892 --> 00:08:17,827
He was probably the most
determined person I've ever met

199
00:08:17,928 --> 00:08:20,192
about doing a particular profession.

200
00:08:20,298 --> 00:08:21,663
His mom worked in the business,
so...

201
00:08:21,766 --> 00:08:28,001
We would sit and discuss
a topic like venereal disease.

202
00:08:39,984 --> 00:08:43,579
He didn't get an offer
to come to medical school

203
00:08:43,688 --> 00:08:45,212
at the end of the first year.

204
00:08:45,323 --> 00:08:48,383
I remember that was a big downer.

205
00:08:48,492 --> 00:08:49,720
I think he felt like he wasn't...

206
00:08:49,827 --> 00:08:51,886
like things were
kind of stalled for him

207
00:08:51,996 --> 00:08:54,624
and he wasn't really...

208
00:08:54,732 --> 00:08:56,859
he wasn't living up to expectations.

209
00:09:02,673 --> 00:09:04,402
"Well, what are you gonna do?"

210
00:09:04,508 --> 00:09:06,738
"Okay, I'll get a job,
and I'll apply again."

211
00:09:06,844 --> 00:09:07,936
Okay.

212
00:09:08,045 --> 00:09:10,138
That's problem, solution.

213
00:09:16,554 --> 00:09:18,647
And then, of course, Heather
brought home this application

214
00:09:18,756 --> 00:09:21,850
she had picked up from Memorial
University of Newfoundland.

215
00:09:21,959 --> 00:09:23,927
I had to go look up St. John's
on the map

216
00:09:24,028 --> 00:09:25,222
when he got accepted there.

217
00:09:25,329 --> 00:09:27,388
I knew,
"That's over in the east coast."

218
00:09:51,522 --> 00:09:54,150
He's now engaged to this lovely girl,

219
00:09:54,258 --> 00:09:56,988
and he's gonna go to med school.
It was great.

220
00:09:57,094 --> 00:09:58,288
Graduation, he was in shorts.

221
00:09:58,396 --> 00:09:59,795
Hold on a second.
We'll come back to this.

222
00:09:59,897 --> 00:10:01,228
But before we go any further,

223
00:10:01,332 --> 00:10:03,630
you've got to know what happened.

224
00:10:03,734 --> 00:10:05,668
The whole truth.

225
00:10:05,770 --> 00:10:06,737
So here it is.

226
00:10:10,574 --> 00:10:13,372
A couple of policemen met us
at the airport in Pittsburgh.

227
00:10:13,477 --> 00:10:15,809
Took us over to the hospital.

228
00:10:15,913 --> 00:10:18,848
Bill and Clark picked us up

229
00:10:18,949 --> 00:10:24,046
and took us over to Bacha's
Funeral Home in Greensburg.

230
00:10:24,155 --> 00:10:26,180
And then he took us down a stairway.

231
00:10:26,290 --> 00:10:30,124
Gurney at the other end...

232
00:10:30,227 --> 00:10:32,923
with a white sheet over a body.

233
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:34,759
And...

234
00:10:36,801 --> 00:10:39,599
...went over to him and when
we could see his face...

235
00:10:42,606 --> 00:10:46,303
...I said, "It's really him."

236
00:10:46,844 --> 00:10:48,539
I kissed him and held him,

237
00:10:48,646 --> 00:10:53,515
and Kate kissed him and held him
and kissed him some more.

238
00:10:53,617 --> 00:10:55,676
Tears are dropping on him,
of course,

239
00:10:55,786 --> 00:10:59,244
and Kate went to wipe
one of those away off his cheek,

240
00:10:59,356 --> 00:11:05,886
and a plug came out where he'd
been shot in the left cheek.

241
00:11:05,996 --> 00:11:08,226
Oh, God.

242
00:11:17,174 --> 00:11:18,801
She pushed it back in
and cried some more.

243
00:11:18,909 --> 00:11:21,639
After that, I lost it.
I just ran outside and screamed.

244
00:11:21,745 --> 00:11:24,111
I was so fucking mad,
I couldn't see straight.

245
00:11:24,215 --> 00:11:27,378
God damn it, I hated.
I've never hated like that.

246
00:11:27,485 --> 00:11:29,851
Didn't even know who I hated.
Didn't know who it was then.

247
00:11:29,954 --> 00:11:33,185
Just knew that somebody
purposely put him there.

248
00:11:33,290 --> 00:11:35,190
Whoever that is is a monster.

249
00:11:35,292 --> 00:11:37,226
Well, who hurt him?

250
00:11:37,328 --> 00:11:40,229
A very bad person.

251
00:11:40,331 --> 00:11:43,061
Which bad person?

252
00:11:44,969 --> 00:11:48,063
- A lady?
- Mm-hmm.

253
00:11:48,172 --> 00:11:49,696
What's her name?

254
00:11:49,807 --> 00:11:51,536
Shirley.

255
00:11:51,642 --> 00:11:53,405
Shirley?

256
00:11:54,011 --> 00:11:56,172
Why'd she kill him?

257
00:12:02,253 --> 00:12:05,711
I couldn't figure out who
she was in relation to Andrew

258
00:12:05,823 --> 00:12:08,917
since Andrew talked a lot about women

259
00:12:09,026 --> 00:12:10,493
but never really mentioned her.

260
00:12:10,594 --> 00:12:12,585
Collette,
this is Bagby's new girlfriend.

261
00:12:12,696 --> 00:12:13,993
Makes me sick to my stomach now,

262
00:12:14,098 --> 00:12:17,397
but I was so excited
that he was dating somebody.

263
00:12:17,501 --> 00:12:19,731
Come on, Shirley.
Get out from behind him.

264
00:12:19,837 --> 00:12:21,202
I knew he'd been struggling

265
00:12:21,305 --> 00:12:24,035
with me moving on
and dating other people.

266
00:12:24,141 --> 00:12:26,507
- Or maybe you will.
- You already met me!

267
00:12:26,610 --> 00:12:29,204
I was excited at the thought
that maybe he had found somebody

268
00:12:29,313 --> 00:12:33,272
that he, you know,
could really be happy with.

269
00:12:34,885 --> 00:12:36,819
But it didn't turn out that way.

270
00:12:44,495 --> 00:12:47,464
- Did you know her?
- Yeah.

271
00:12:48,966 --> 00:12:51,457
Do you remember
when they started dating?

272
00:12:51,569 --> 00:12:52,536
Mm-hmm.

273
00:12:52,636 --> 00:12:53,625
She just kind of appeared,

274
00:12:53,737 --> 00:12:56,672
and then she was there
all the time all of a sudden.

275
00:12:56,774 --> 00:13:00,175
And just didn't seem suited for him.

276
00:13:04,348 --> 00:13:06,873
He did say that there was
a considerable age difference.

277
00:13:06,984 --> 00:13:09,384
And then the second time
I heard him talk about it,

278
00:13:09,486 --> 00:13:11,283
he actually fessed
to the age difference,

279
00:13:11,388 --> 00:13:12,355
and I was like, "Holy shit!"

280
00:13:14,425 --> 00:13:17,326
Shirley's got three kids!
Whoo-hoo!

281
00:13:20,965 --> 00:13:22,557
Me, I always had to give him
a hard time,

282
00:13:22,666 --> 00:13:24,099
so I'd tease him about nailing grandma.

283
00:13:24,201 --> 00:13:26,795
And she seemed so incongruous

284
00:13:26,904 --> 00:13:28,838
with who I would picture him with.

285
00:13:28,939 --> 00:13:31,100
A person like that isn't just,
like, completely normal

286
00:13:31,208 --> 00:13:33,540
and then, one day,
they become a psycho, you know?

287
00:13:33,644 --> 00:13:35,043
I mean,
there had to be some signs.

288
00:13:35,145 --> 00:13:37,579
She'd just be really
inappropriate with things.

289
00:13:37,681 --> 00:13:40,309
Poor taste,
things that she would say.

290
00:13:40,417 --> 00:13:42,908
She was always making
sexually inappropriate comments.

291
00:13:43,020 --> 00:13:43,918
But never threatening.

292
00:13:44,021 --> 00:13:46,819
We never thought of her
as being threatening,

293
00:13:46,924 --> 00:13:48,892
but, just,
something was a little off.

294
00:13:48,993 --> 00:13:50,290
Something wasn't right.

295
00:13:50,394 --> 00:13:51,725
She started calling me
on a regular basis.

296
00:13:51,829 --> 00:13:53,160
She talked forever.

297
00:13:53,263 --> 00:13:56,926
Crude things about
their intimate relationship.

298
00:13:57,034 --> 00:13:58,467
But I thought it was kind of odd
when I met her

299
00:13:58,569 --> 00:14:00,298
that she was not practicing.

300
00:14:00,404 --> 00:14:03,805
She had finished residency
for quite some time,

301
00:14:03,907 --> 00:14:06,375
and yet she was having trouble
getting her credentials.

302
00:14:06,477 --> 00:14:09,139
Nobody said anything
'cause we all respected Andrew.

303
00:14:09,246 --> 00:14:12,773
And if he wasn't putting the
pieces together or something,

304
00:14:12,883 --> 00:14:15,374
it just makes me think
he was just not caring.

305
00:14:15,486 --> 00:14:17,579
He was likely 4,000 miles away

306
00:14:17,688 --> 00:14:20,020
from where he wanted to be
for the rest of his life.

307
00:14:20,124 --> 00:14:21,989
He had had a very difficult,

308
00:14:22,092 --> 00:14:25,493
kind of heartbreaking type
of situation with Heather.

309
00:14:25,596 --> 00:14:26,995
Whatever happened with their breakup

310
00:14:27,097 --> 00:14:28,758
really kind of devastated him

311
00:14:28,866 --> 00:14:33,166
and just left him vulnerable
to someone like Shirley.

312
00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:34,259
"Andrew!

313
00:14:34,371 --> 00:14:36,635
You know you can do a lot better."

314
00:14:36,740 --> 00:14:38,503
He said,
"Ah, no, I really can't."

315
00:14:38,609 --> 00:14:40,236
He'd poke fun at himself all the time.

316
00:14:40,344 --> 00:14:43,142
He'd say he was a short,
portly little fella.

317
00:14:47,084 --> 00:14:48,346
You don't need to go out with a woman

318
00:14:48,452 --> 00:14:49,714
because you can't
think you can do better.

319
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:50,980
It was a comfort.

320
00:14:51,088 --> 00:14:53,579
And, in Newfoundland,
it was somebody to be around

321
00:14:53,691 --> 00:14:54,885
and he enjoyed it.

322
00:14:59,530 --> 00:15:01,657
Oh, it's just a senior-year thing.

323
00:15:01,765 --> 00:15:03,892
After graduation,
he came back to the U.S.

324
00:15:04,001 --> 00:15:06,333
to do a surgery residency
in Syracuse, New York,

325
00:15:06,437 --> 00:15:07,495
and he was miserable.

326
00:15:07,604 --> 00:15:08,696
He hated it.

327
00:15:08,806 --> 00:15:11,570
Shirley also decided to move
to the States to practice.

328
00:15:16,113 --> 00:15:19,344
We were not very aware
of his year in Syracuse,

329
00:15:19,450 --> 00:15:21,850
what a problem she became to him there.

330
00:15:27,024 --> 00:15:29,117
Was a real hard year for him.

331
00:15:29,226 --> 00:15:30,989
There was really no time for anything.

332
00:15:31,095 --> 00:15:32,926
And the fact
that there was this somebody

333
00:15:33,030 --> 00:15:34,691
that was making a lot of effort

334
00:15:34,798 --> 00:15:36,823
to maintain a relationship with him

335
00:15:36,934 --> 00:15:39,459
and represented something else
besides the misery

336
00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:41,595
that it sounded like his internship was

337
00:15:41,705 --> 00:15:44,037
was hard for him to pass up.

338
00:15:44,141 --> 00:15:46,041
He pretty quickly realized
that surgery wasn't for him

339
00:15:46,143 --> 00:15:48,043
and switched
to a family-practice residency

340
00:15:48,145 --> 00:15:49,305
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania,

341
00:15:49,413 --> 00:15:50,971
in July of 2001.

342
00:15:51,081 --> 00:15:52,105
And he loved it.

343
00:15:52,216 --> 00:15:54,377
He said, "When you finally find
that thing

344
00:15:54,485 --> 00:15:56,851
that you know is your niche,

345
00:15:56,954 --> 00:15:58,387
it's worth everything in the world."

346
00:15:58,489 --> 00:16:00,218
And he now wanted her to go away.

347
00:16:00,324 --> 00:16:02,315
He did not invite her
to Matt's wedding.

348
00:16:02,426 --> 00:16:03,484
Yeah, and she thought
she was going to be coming.

349
00:16:03,594 --> 00:16:04,652
She just already had it arranged.

350
00:16:04,762 --> 00:16:06,093
The morning of the wedding,

351
00:16:06,196 --> 00:16:08,096
Andrew's cellphone started ringing.

352
00:16:08,198 --> 00:16:09,927
And he'd answer it,
and it's Shirley.

353
00:16:10,033 --> 00:16:12,092
A minute or two later, it'd ring
again, and it's her again.

354
00:16:12,202 --> 00:16:13,965
Andrew got more and more upset
with her.

355
00:16:14,071 --> 00:16:17,507
"What is your fucking problem?"
And he clicked off the phone.

356
00:16:17,608 --> 00:16:20,441
She left 30-some-odd messages
on his phone.

357
00:16:22,312 --> 00:16:25,713
His phone in his house rang,
like, 30 times.

358
00:16:25,816 --> 00:16:27,443
Then his cellphone rang 30 times.

359
00:16:27,551 --> 00:16:29,451
He's like, "Oh, it's her.
I don't want to talk with her."

360
00:16:31,255 --> 00:16:33,519
Apparently,
Andrew had already asked Shirley

361
00:16:33,624 --> 00:16:37,219
to accompany him to Karl and
Marci's wedding, October 20th,

362
00:16:37,327 --> 00:16:38,316
before July.

363
00:16:38,428 --> 00:16:40,623
He had broken up with her
a month before in his mind.

364
00:16:40,731 --> 00:16:42,756
It sounds so easy,
but it's hard

365
00:16:42,866 --> 00:16:45,096
when you're a genuine person who cares.

366
00:16:45,202 --> 00:16:46,396
He didn't know
how to be a son of a bitch

367
00:16:46,503 --> 00:16:47,800
because he wasn't a son of a bitch.

368
00:16:47,905 --> 00:16:50,465
Shirley had been really,
like, all over Andrew.

369
00:16:50,574 --> 00:16:52,940
Just acting possessive of him.

370
00:16:53,043 --> 00:16:54,772
I said, "Andrew, hey,
do you want something to drink?"

371
00:16:54,878 --> 00:16:56,607
and she said, "There you go,
hitting on the best man."

372
00:16:56,713 --> 00:17:00,342
My jaw dropped. It had to have.
I remember going...

373
00:17:00,450 --> 00:17:02,850
On the afternoon
of Saturday, November 3, 2001,

374
00:17:02,953 --> 00:17:04,511
he broke up with Shirley
once and for all

375
00:17:04,621 --> 00:17:07,055
over lunch at the airport
in Latrobe, Pennsylvania.

376
00:17:07,157 --> 00:17:08,089
Then he put her on a plane

377
00:17:08,192 --> 00:17:09,921
back to her place
in Council Bluffs, Iowa,

378
00:17:10,027 --> 00:17:12,291
1,000 miles away.

379
00:17:18,802 --> 00:17:20,997
I remember the morning
that Shirley showed up.

380
00:17:21,104 --> 00:17:23,095
He said, "You'll never guess

381
00:17:23,207 --> 00:17:25,937
who showed up on my doorstep at 5:30."

382
00:17:26,043 --> 00:17:29,376
And I said, "Who?"
He said, "The psychotic bitch."

383
00:17:29,479 --> 00:17:31,947
And I told him, I said,
"You know, Andrew,

384
00:17:32,049 --> 00:17:35,109
when I break up with somebody
and put them on a plane

385
00:17:35,219 --> 00:17:37,084
and send them 1,300 miles away,

386
00:17:37,187 --> 00:17:39,155
they knock on my front door,

387
00:17:39,256 --> 00:17:42,248
I'm going out the back door
and I'm calling the police."

388
00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,054
He said, "What do you mean?"

389
00:17:44,161 --> 00:17:46,391
I said, "Andrew."

390
00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:50,464
I said, "Be serious.

391
00:17:50,567 --> 00:17:53,559
Nobody drives 16 hours

392
00:17:53,670 --> 00:17:54,898
after you've just broken up with them."

393
00:17:55,005 --> 00:17:57,303
I said,
"Do not meet her in private."

394
00:17:57,407 --> 00:17:58,965
He said, "What can happen?"

395
00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:00,703
And he said, "I'm gonna
need to catch up with you

396
00:18:00,811 --> 00:18:02,301
and we're gonna have to do
some serious talking."

397
00:18:02,412 --> 00:18:05,472
I said, "Bring some beer.
I only live a block away.

398
00:18:05,582 --> 00:18:06,844
When do you think you'll be done?"

399
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:09,111
He said, "Well, it's 4:30 now.

400
00:18:09,219 --> 00:18:10,846
Meeting her at 6:00.

401
00:18:10,954 --> 00:18:13,286
7:30, I'll be at your house."

402
00:18:13,390 --> 00:18:16,621
Things people should know about Andrew.

403
00:18:16,727 --> 00:18:17,853
He was never late.

404
00:18:17,961 --> 00:18:19,258
And you know what?

405
00:18:19,363 --> 00:18:21,888
When Andrew didn't show up at 7:30,

406
00:18:21,999 --> 00:18:24,866
I knew something was very wrong.

407
00:18:24,968 --> 00:18:27,368
And when I went back down at 9:00

408
00:18:27,471 --> 00:18:29,803
and didn't see his car there...

409
00:18:30,574 --> 00:18:32,201
I knew something was wrong.

410
00:18:34,811 --> 00:18:37,245
Well, let me tell you
the events of the day.

411
00:18:37,347 --> 00:18:38,974
Andrew didn't show up
for morning report.

412
00:18:39,082 --> 00:18:40,913
Morning report ended around 8:00.

413
00:18:41,018 --> 00:18:42,713
I went down to my office.
I called Andrew's house.

414
00:18:42,819 --> 00:18:44,343
Hi.
You've reached Andrew Bagby.

415
00:18:44,454 --> 00:18:46,251
Please leave a message
at the tone. Thank you.

416
00:18:52,596 --> 00:18:54,427
Called his cellphone.
"Andrew, where are you at?"

417
00:18:54,531 --> 00:18:56,192
No answer on either one.

418
00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:58,291
As I recall,
we're getting pretty close

419
00:18:58,402 --> 00:18:59,596
to 9:00 in the morning,

420
00:18:59,703 --> 00:19:01,694
and Rhonda and I
and some of the residents

421
00:19:01,805 --> 00:19:03,238
are starting to get a little nervous.

422
00:19:03,340 --> 00:19:04,568
I remember Bill coming in

423
00:19:04,675 --> 00:19:05,903
and standing in front of the television

424
00:19:06,009 --> 00:19:06,907
and telling us.

425
00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:08,671
One of the E.R. docs
turned to me and said,

426
00:19:08,779 --> 00:19:13,113
"They found a body in scrubs
out at Keystone Park."

427
00:19:13,216 --> 00:19:14,444
Dead silence fell over.

428
00:19:14,551 --> 00:19:16,485
A heaviness like I've never felt.

429
00:19:16,586 --> 00:19:19,146
And eventually almost everyone
was congregated there

430
00:19:19,256 --> 00:19:20,484
just waiting for more news.

431
00:19:20,590 --> 00:19:22,615
Rhonda got the call,
and she said to me,

432
00:19:22,726 --> 00:19:25,160
"They need you in Mr. Clark's
office right now."

433
00:19:25,262 --> 00:19:26,354
And I remember my heart pounding,

434
00:19:26,463 --> 00:19:28,260
going up at damn near a sprint.

435
00:19:28,365 --> 00:19:30,128
I opened the door,
and I remember seeing

436
00:19:30,233 --> 00:19:32,827
three Pennsylvania State Police
troopers in uniform

437
00:19:32,936 --> 00:19:34,062
sitting in the room.

438
00:19:34,171 --> 00:19:36,435
And I said, "You're here
to tell me about Andrew Bagby."

439
00:19:36,540 --> 00:19:39,236
They asked for us all to gather
in the conference room.

440
00:19:39,343 --> 00:19:41,402
- And they closed the door.
- He cleared his throat.

441
00:19:41,511 --> 00:19:43,536
He just walked right up
to the podium and he said...

442
00:19:43,647 --> 00:19:45,205
"Andrew Bagby is dead."

443
00:19:46,883 --> 00:19:49,181
I said, "Well, hell,
you don't have to look far."

444
00:19:49,286 --> 00:19:51,447
They're like,
"What do you mean?"

445
00:19:56,460 --> 00:20:00,294
I said, "This woman was in town.
She was here."

446
00:20:05,469 --> 00:20:07,801
I said, "Find her, and I think
you'll find who did this."

447
00:20:18,315 --> 00:20:21,716
A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.

448
00:20:21,818 --> 00:20:24,184
He was found on the morning
of Tuesday, November 6th,

449
00:20:24,287 --> 00:20:25,845
laying behind his car in a parking lot

450
00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:28,754
at Keystone State Park
in Derry Township, Pennsylvania.

451
00:20:28,859 --> 00:20:30,292
A man walking through Keystone Park

452
00:20:30,394 --> 00:20:32,828
at 6: 10 p.m. the previous
evening, November 5th,

453
00:20:32,929 --> 00:20:36,126
had seen his black Toyota
Corolla parked next to an SUV.

454
00:20:36,233 --> 00:20:37,291
This was 10 minutes

455
00:20:37,401 --> 00:20:39,596
after he told Clark
he was going to meet Shirley.

456
00:20:39,703 --> 00:20:40,761
"Meeting her at 6:00."

457
00:20:40,871 --> 00:20:43,237
Shirley drove a Toyota RAV4 SUV.

458
00:20:43,340 --> 00:20:45,001
He was shot five times.

459
00:20:45,108 --> 00:20:46,507
In the face, the chest,

460
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:48,510
twice in the buttocks,
and in the back of the head.

461
00:20:48,612 --> 00:20:50,739
He also received a blunt trauma
to the back of the head.

462
00:20:50,847 --> 00:20:51,779
That didn't sound random.

463
00:20:51,882 --> 00:20:53,747
That sounded like rage and vengeance.

464
00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:57,047
The ammunition used
was CCI.22-caliber bullets.

465
00:20:57,154 --> 00:20:58,086
There were six spent casings
and one live round

466
00:20:58,188 --> 00:20:59,917
on the ground beside him.

467
00:21:00,023 --> 00:21:02,457
Shirley owned a Phoenix Arms
.22-caliber handgun.

468
00:21:18,742 --> 00:21:20,642
She had three lessons
with a firearms instructor

469
00:21:20,744 --> 00:21:21,870
who said that at her last lesson

470
00:21:21,978 --> 00:21:24,606
she was using CCI.22-caliber ammunition

471
00:21:24,714 --> 00:21:25,942
and her gun malfunctioned

472
00:21:26,049 --> 00:21:28,779
and would sometimes eject
live rounds onto the ground.

473
00:21:35,092 --> 00:21:36,855
Then she said,
"No, I can't find it."

474
00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:45,694
Then she said,
"I gave the gun to Andrew."

475
00:21:45,802 --> 00:21:47,235
She claimed she was home sick all day

476
00:21:47,337 --> 00:21:48,634
on Monday, November 5th.

477
00:21:58,915 --> 00:22:02,112
The cellphone records show
that a phone call was made

478
00:22:02,219 --> 00:22:03,186
here, here, here, and here.

479
00:22:03,286 --> 00:22:04,719
While she claims to be home in bed,

480
00:22:04,821 --> 00:22:07,119
she's making cellphone calls
from Chicago, Illinois,

481
00:22:07,224 --> 00:22:09,954
at 7:08 and 7: 10 p.m.
on Sunday, November 4th.

482
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:11,425
Then another from South Bend, Indiana,

483
00:22:11,528 --> 00:22:13,519
at 10: 19 p.m. that night.

484
00:22:13,630 --> 00:22:15,063
Then another
from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

485
00:22:15,165 --> 00:22:17,360
at 8:07 a.m. the next
morning, November 5th,

486
00:22:17,467 --> 00:22:18,434
the day he was killed.

487
00:22:18,535 --> 00:22:19,934
She logged on to eBay that morning

488
00:22:20,036 --> 00:22:21,196
from his computer at his house.

489
00:22:21,304 --> 00:22:22,104
And back again.

490
00:22:22,105 --> 00:22:23,697
At 11:26 p.m. that night,

491
00:22:23,807 --> 00:22:25,775
she makes another call
from Cleveland, Ohio,

492
00:22:25,876 --> 00:22:27,434
clearly on her way home this time.

493
00:22:27,544 --> 00:22:28,841
Then another call from Stuart, Iowa,

494
00:22:28,945 --> 00:22:31,778
at 9:48 a.m. the next morning,
Tuesday, November 6th.

495
00:22:31,882 --> 00:22:33,975
Then another once she got home
to Council Bluffs.

496
00:22:34,084 --> 00:22:35,244
And this one's to him.

497
00:22:44,294 --> 00:22:45,192
But when she realized

498
00:22:45,295 --> 00:22:46,489
that she couldn't possibly
be sick in bed

499
00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:48,029
when she'd been caught
making cellphone calls

500
00:22:48,131 --> 00:22:49,257
from Pennsylvania and back,

501
00:22:49,366 --> 00:22:50,424
she changed her story again.

502
00:22:50,534 --> 00:22:53,901
Then she said, "I gave the gun
to Andrew in the parking lot,

503
00:22:54,004 --> 00:22:55,938
and I saw him put it in his trunk."

504
00:23:06,583 --> 00:23:11,486
And that clearly shows if she
did this, she planned it.

505
00:23:11,588 --> 00:23:15,217
She is a manipulative,
deceitful planner of a murder.

506
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:17,954
In order to prove her whereabouts

507
00:23:18,061 --> 00:23:19,551
when she made these phone calls,

508
00:23:19,663 --> 00:23:21,893
each individual cell tower
along her 16-hour drive

509
00:23:21,998 --> 00:23:23,022
had to be manually checked,

510
00:23:23,133 --> 00:23:25,693
which was a process
that took almost two weeks.

511
00:23:25,802 --> 00:23:28,168
While the police were uncovering
this crucial piece of evidence,

512
00:23:28,271 --> 00:23:29,636
Shirley left the United States

513
00:23:29,739 --> 00:23:33,334
for her home
in St. John's, Newfoundland.

514
00:23:33,944 --> 00:23:35,571
We were absolutely helpless

515
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:37,237
for the whole time we were in Latrobe

516
00:23:37,347 --> 00:23:40,510
after this initial nightmare.

517
00:23:40,617 --> 00:23:43,518
The other residents and Andrew's...

518
00:23:43,620 --> 00:23:45,315
They're Andrew friends now...

519
00:23:45,422 --> 00:23:48,687
came in, sat with us,
brought us meals.

520
00:23:48,792 --> 00:23:52,125
They had a sign-up sheet at the
hospital to bring us a dinner

521
00:23:52,229 --> 00:23:54,754
and sit and cry with us

522
00:23:54,864 --> 00:23:59,096
and listen to us and cry some more.

523
00:23:59,202 --> 00:24:00,191
Great people.

524
00:24:00,303 --> 00:24:02,897
The whole hospital grieved.
It was profound.

525
00:24:03,006 --> 00:24:07,909
Just picture the masses
that just came out for that.

526
00:24:08,011 --> 00:24:10,138
From memorials
in Newfoundland to California

527
00:24:10,247 --> 00:24:11,236
to England.

528
00:24:11,348 --> 00:24:13,145
- To St. Louis.
- To Latrobe.

529
00:24:13,250 --> 00:24:15,343
I'm so proud to say
that I loved him so very much.

530
00:24:15,452 --> 00:24:19,252
I'd be happy if I had 1/10
the people care 1/2 about me

531
00:24:19,356 --> 00:24:20,482
as much as they did Andrew.

532
00:24:42,012 --> 00:24:43,604
I know at the point
we had the memorial service,

533
00:24:43,713 --> 00:24:45,840
she was back in Canada.

534
00:24:45,949 --> 00:24:47,974
She was there at the memorial
service that we had here.

535
00:24:48,084 --> 00:24:49,881
She broke down crying
during the service

536
00:24:49,986 --> 00:24:51,920
and sobbing really loud,

537
00:24:52,022 --> 00:24:55,651
and, you know, I wonder if it
wasn't all just for a show.

538
00:24:55,759 --> 00:24:58,853
And then fear at that point for,
you know, Heather's safety.

539
00:24:58,962 --> 00:24:59,860
She came up

540
00:24:59,963 --> 00:25:02,761
and sort of butted one
of my friends out beside me

541
00:25:02,866 --> 00:25:06,029
and said just awful things

542
00:25:06,136 --> 00:25:09,401
and, obviously,
I cared a lot more about him

543
00:25:09,506 --> 00:25:10,495
than he ever cared about me.

544
00:25:10,607 --> 00:25:14,008
And I definitely
wasn't important in his life.

545
00:25:14,110 --> 00:25:16,237
Got an e-mail from Shirley.

546
00:25:16,346 --> 00:25:17,540
A horrible, scathing e-mail.

547
00:25:17,647 --> 00:25:18,614
It was all basically,

548
00:25:18,715 --> 00:25:20,706
I was nothing,
and she was everything.

549
00:25:20,817 --> 00:25:23,911
How wonderful their love was
and how that'll never die now.

550
00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:25,749
To try to lure her
back to the United States,

551
00:25:25,855 --> 00:25:27,948
Shirley was invited to the
memorial service in California,

552
00:25:28,058 --> 00:25:29,992
but she didn't take the bait.

553
00:25:30,093 --> 00:25:31,890
So, finally, she was charged.

554
00:25:31,995 --> 00:25:34,361
She was arrested
in St. John's, Newfoundland,

555
00:25:34,464 --> 00:25:35,897
on December 12, 2001,

556
00:25:35,999 --> 00:25:39,298
and was let go on bail
the very same day.

557
00:25:39,402 --> 00:25:40,460
And then this flight risk.

558
00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:42,731
It seemed to me common sense
that if she isn't

559
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:45,364
in the jurisdiction
where they want her, she's fled.

560
00:25:45,475 --> 00:25:47,409
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden
did not even argue

561
00:25:47,510 --> 00:25:48,636
against her release on bail

562
00:25:48,745 --> 00:25:49,837
and instead entered the courtroom

563
00:25:49,946 --> 00:25:51,470
with an agreement already
in place for her release.

564
00:25:51,581 --> 00:25:52,946
Pending the next hearing

565
00:25:53,049 --> 00:25:54,949
in the extradition process
to the United States,

566
00:25:55,051 --> 00:25:57,246
all Justice David Russell
required Shirley to do

567
00:25:57,354 --> 00:26:00,448
was post $75,000 in sureties.

568
00:26:00,557 --> 00:26:03,617
$65,000 of this was posted
by her personal psychiatrist,

569
00:26:03,727 --> 00:26:04,694
but I'll come back to him.

570
00:26:04,794 --> 00:26:05,818
Turn in her passports,

571
00:26:05,929 --> 00:26:07,863
sign in once a week
at the local police station,

572
00:26:07,964 --> 00:26:09,454
promise not to leave Newfoundland,

573
00:26:09,566 --> 00:26:11,363
and avoid contact with these people.

574
00:26:11,468 --> 00:26:13,368
And with that,
the government of Canada

575
00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:15,961
let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer

576
00:26:16,072 --> 00:26:17,767
walk the streets.

577
00:26:17,874 --> 00:26:19,569
- I thought it was crazy.
- Should never be.

578
00:26:19,676 --> 00:26:21,940
- Should never have been.
- I thought it was insane.

579
00:26:22,045 --> 00:26:23,512
Who the hell is the system protecting?

580
00:26:23,613 --> 00:26:25,877
I could not believe this was happening.

581
00:26:25,982 --> 00:26:29,281
But the most unbelievable part
was when we found out about you.

582
00:26:29,386 --> 00:26:31,980
Kurt, this is Matt Oetinger.

583
00:26:32,088 --> 00:26:34,318
I just got a call from Mrs. Bagby.

584
00:26:34,424 --> 00:26:37,825
The abbreviated version is
what's her bucket, that bitch,

585
00:26:37,927 --> 00:26:40,521
held a press conference

586
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:42,120
and announced she's 4 months pregnant

587
00:26:42,232 --> 00:26:43,597
with Andrew's baby.

588
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:46,191
They can't prove it
until the child's born.

589
00:26:46,302 --> 00:26:50,796
If it is true, the Bagbys
are going to sue for custody.

590
00:26:52,909 --> 00:26:54,843
My movie now took on
a whole new meaning.

591
00:26:54,944 --> 00:26:57,538
It was no longer just my search
for what was left of your dad.

592
00:26:57,647 --> 00:27:00,411
It might be the only way you
could one day go back in time,

593
00:27:00,517 --> 00:27:02,451
see, and get to know him.

594
00:27:02,552 --> 00:27:04,281
This is a time machine.

595
00:27:04,387 --> 00:27:06,184
Yes.
A time machine.

596
00:27:06,289 --> 00:27:07,881
And I vowed to collect
every memory for you

597
00:27:07,991 --> 00:27:09,390
before they were gone.

598
00:27:09,492 --> 00:27:11,960
So, finally, I set off.
First, I would go to England

599
00:27:12,061 --> 00:27:14,188
to interview your grandma's
side of the family for you.

600
00:27:14,297 --> 00:27:15,559
Then I'd return to the U.S.

601
00:27:15,665 --> 00:27:17,895
to do an epic road trip
across North America.

602
00:27:18,001 --> 00:27:20,469
I'd start on the west coast
of California and motor east,

603
00:27:20,570 --> 00:27:22,595
stopping to interview all of
your dad's friends and family

604
00:27:22,705 --> 00:27:23,603
along the way.

605
00:27:23,706 --> 00:27:25,765
And I would keep driving
until the land ran out

606
00:27:25,875 --> 00:27:27,433
in St. John's, Newfoundland,

607
00:27:27,544 --> 00:27:29,569
the eastern-most point
in all of North America,

608
00:27:29,679 --> 00:27:32,739
where the last living piece
of Andrew, you,

609
00:27:32,849 --> 00:27:34,282
would be waiting for me.

610
00:27:34,384 --> 00:27:35,817
I grabbed a digital video camera,

611
00:27:35,919 --> 00:27:38,581
a 16mm wind-up movie camera,
and an old Nikon.

612
00:27:38,688 --> 00:27:39,985
I have a good idea.

613
00:27:40,089 --> 00:27:42,080
I'll go back in time
and stop you from dying.

614
00:27:42,192 --> 00:27:45,286
And set off on a quest
to bring your dad back to life.

615
00:27:45,395 --> 00:27:47,295
And while I raced to rescue
your history,

616
00:27:47,397 --> 00:27:49,297
your grandma and grandpa
quit their jobs,

617
00:27:49,399 --> 00:27:51,230
dug into their savings,
and gave up everything

618
00:27:51,334 --> 00:27:53,996
to move to Newfoundland
to fight for your future.

619
00:27:55,805 --> 00:28:00,504
I met Kate and David
in the spring of 2002.

620
00:28:00,610 --> 00:28:01,872
I'll never forget it.

621
00:28:01,978 --> 00:28:03,843
They needed a lawyer to assist them

622
00:28:03,947 --> 00:28:05,938
in making sure that their rights

623
00:28:06,049 --> 00:28:07,846
and the baby's rights
were protected, I guess.

624
00:28:07,951 --> 00:28:10,419
I instantly liked them.

625
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,181
I thought that it was so important

626
00:28:12,288 --> 00:28:14,256
that they have a relationship
with that child.

627
00:28:14,357 --> 00:28:16,518
Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,

628
00:28:16,626 --> 00:28:19,060
an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy

629
00:28:19,162 --> 00:28:20,595
of Child Protective Services,

630
00:28:20,697 --> 00:28:23,928
and told her that we,
the Bagbys,

631
00:28:24,033 --> 00:28:26,558
are concerned
about the safety of the baby

632
00:28:26,669 --> 00:28:31,038
because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.

633
00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:33,836
To me, I thought they were
very emotionally intelligent

634
00:28:33,943 --> 00:28:37,435
in how they were bearing up

635
00:28:37,547 --> 00:28:40,072
under all of this incredible stress.

636
00:28:40,183 --> 00:28:41,741
You know,
that was a Sunday afternoon.

637
00:28:41,851 --> 00:28:42,783
The next morning,

638
00:28:42,886 --> 00:28:45,252
they had to sit in the courtroom
and look at her.

639
00:28:47,156 --> 00:28:49,317
When your grandma and grandpa
first arrived in Canada,

640
00:28:49,425 --> 00:28:51,416
they were told,
"The law is slow."

641
00:28:51,528 --> 00:28:52,654
And they weren't kidding.

642
00:28:52,762 --> 00:28:53,820
February 15th.

643
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:55,022
Prosecutor Mike Madden acknowledged

644
00:28:55,131 --> 00:28:56,996
that the extradition request
had been received.

645
00:28:57,100 --> 00:28:58,590
They adjourned until March 11th,

646
00:28:58,701 --> 00:28:59,895
when they decided they'd reconvene

647
00:29:00,003 --> 00:29:01,436
to select a date
for the extradition hearing

648
00:29:01,538 --> 00:29:02,800
on March 25th,
where they decided

649
00:29:02,906 --> 00:29:04,806
to set the date
for the extradition hearing

650
00:29:04,908 --> 00:29:06,842
for May 27th, where they got
caught up debating

651
00:29:06,943 --> 00:29:08,570
the French-versus-English translations

652
00:29:08,678 --> 00:29:10,305
of Section 32 of the Extradition Act,

653
00:29:10,413 --> 00:29:11,402
and decided to adjourn

654
00:29:11,514 --> 00:29:13,539
for a specific translation
until June 11th,

655
00:29:13,650 --> 00:29:14,981
a hearing which lasted five minutes,

656
00:29:15,084 --> 00:29:15,982
at which Judge Derek Green

657
00:29:16,085 --> 00:29:18,246
said he wasn't in a position
to rule on the translation

658
00:29:18,354 --> 00:29:21,121
and they would adjourn again
until July 30th.

659
00:29:21,224 --> 00:29:24,352
And while they waited for
justice and for you to arrive,

660
00:29:24,460 --> 00:29:27,486
your grandma and grandpa made
a new home and new friends.

661
00:29:27,597 --> 00:29:29,224
They made friends all over St. John's.

662
00:29:29,332 --> 00:29:31,630
People in the legal community,
the medical community.

663
00:29:31,734 --> 00:29:32,701
But here at St. Michael's,

664
00:29:32,802 --> 00:29:36,795
yeah, they got right in there
and got right involved.

665
00:29:36,906 --> 00:29:38,771
It seems like they've always been here.

666
00:29:38,875 --> 00:29:40,570
Basically, they have more
friends in Newfoundland now

667
00:29:40,677 --> 00:29:41,575
than we do.

668
00:29:41,678 --> 00:29:43,543
Well,
it's a very small province.

669
00:29:43,646 --> 00:29:45,978
The land mass is as big as...

670
00:29:46,082 --> 00:29:48,050
Well, maybe not quite as big
as California,

671
00:29:48,151 --> 00:29:49,550
but not far off.

672
00:29:49,652 --> 00:29:53,315
And yet we only have 530,000 population

673
00:29:53,423 --> 00:29:54,754
scattered over that land mass.

674
00:29:54,857 --> 00:29:56,051
You can't go anywhere in St. John's

675
00:29:56,159 --> 00:29:57,387
without running into somebody you know.

676
00:29:57,493 --> 00:29:59,188
I mean, it's the oldest city
in North America.

677
00:29:59,295 --> 00:30:01,388
It's a very safe place, I think.

678
00:30:01,497 --> 00:30:03,431
The big drawback against living here

679
00:30:03,533 --> 00:30:04,557
is getting out of here.

680
00:30:04,667 --> 00:30:08,034
The weather here is terrible.
The weather is awful.

681
00:30:08,137 --> 00:30:10,435
We have 8 months of winter
and 4 months of bad weather.

682
00:30:10,540 --> 00:30:12,508
And the other very consistent
thing that I hear

683
00:30:12,609 --> 00:30:14,099
is that the people are so friendly.

684
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:15,268
How would you describe them

685
00:30:15,378 --> 00:30:16,538
to someone who had
never met them before?

686
00:30:16,646 --> 00:30:18,511
Oh, do you have an hour?

687
00:30:18,615 --> 00:30:20,776
I was hoping you would ask me
about Kate and David,

688
00:30:20,883 --> 00:30:21,941
who are very...

689
00:30:22,051 --> 00:30:23,643
Young at heart.

690
00:30:23,753 --> 00:30:25,118
Childish.
That's not the right word.

691
00:30:25,221 --> 00:30:27,416
He's an engineer
in the truest sense of the word.

692
00:30:27,523 --> 00:30:29,013
The guy likes Pintos, okay?

693
00:30:29,125 --> 00:30:30,114
Logical.

694
00:30:30,226 --> 00:30:32,660
Does things in steps,
logical steps.

695
00:30:32,762 --> 00:30:36,357
Comparing Andrew as a teenager
and Dave as a teenager,

696
00:30:36,466 --> 00:30:38,161
- they're almost twins.
- He's the older model.

697
00:30:38,267 --> 00:30:40,360
- It was wonderful.
- It was wonderful.

698
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:43,098
He always calls you "mate,"
his father does."Mate."

699
00:30:43,206 --> 00:30:44,104
"How you doing, mate?"

700
00:30:44,207 --> 00:30:46,641
And Kate calls you "love."

701
00:30:46,743 --> 00:30:48,370
Oh, I thought she was feisty.

702
00:30:48,478 --> 00:30:50,275
Like a little ball of fire.

703
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:52,245
She's so tiny, and then
big things come out of her.

704
00:30:52,348 --> 00:30:53,872
It's great if she's on your side

705
00:30:53,983 --> 00:30:56,110
because she'll always stand
up for what she believes in

706
00:30:56,219 --> 00:30:57,117
and those that she loves.

707
00:30:57,220 --> 00:30:59,245
They're a rare pair.

708
00:31:00,123 --> 00:31:02,683
They were from the start.

709
00:31:02,792 --> 00:31:07,252
In itself, it's quite a story,
their marriage, you know.

710
00:31:07,363 --> 00:31:09,160
I was going to come here
for the two years,

711
00:31:09,265 --> 00:31:10,857
then I was going on to Australia
for two years,

712
00:31:10,967 --> 00:31:12,264
work my way around the world.

713
00:31:12,368 --> 00:31:13,699
And then I was going back to Devon.

714
00:31:13,803 --> 00:31:14,997
And I wasn't going to get married

715
00:31:15,104 --> 00:31:17,197
because that was not on my list
of things to do at all.

716
00:31:17,306 --> 00:31:18,330
I was in the Navy,

717
00:31:18,441 --> 00:31:20,500
stationed on an aircraft
carrier, the Hornet,

718
00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:21,838
in Long Beach, California.

719
00:31:21,944 --> 00:31:24,708
A guy came into the shop
one day, E.T., electronics shop,

720
00:31:24,814 --> 00:31:26,213
and said he had two English nurses

721
00:31:26,315 --> 00:31:27,213
who wanted to go to Disneyland.

722
00:31:27,316 --> 00:31:28,715
We were too cheap to pay the fare.

723
00:31:28,818 --> 00:31:30,718
Yeah, two cheap English nurses.

724
00:31:30,820 --> 00:31:32,651
And I took the little one

725
00:31:32,755 --> 00:31:35,280
and left him with the tall one.

726
00:31:35,391 --> 00:31:38,792
And, uh, they didn't work out
so well, but we did.

727
00:31:38,895 --> 00:31:41,386
We went out 13 times
in the first two weeks.

728
00:31:41,497 --> 00:31:43,158
And he could quote Shakespeare,
by the way,

729
00:31:43,266 --> 00:31:44,927
so I knew it was all right.

730
00:31:45,034 --> 00:31:46,661
Five months later, I'm married.

731
00:31:46,769 --> 00:31:49,704
So we moved down to San Diego
and started working on a baby.

732
00:31:49,806 --> 00:31:51,330
But nothing happened.

733
00:31:51,441 --> 00:31:55,002
We tried to get pregnant
for a year, two years,

734
00:31:55,111 --> 00:31:56,009
with no result.

735
00:31:56,112 --> 00:31:59,570
At some point, they mentioned
that they might adopt.

736
00:31:59,682 --> 00:32:03,948
And then, I mean,
it was like a miracle.

737
00:32:04,053 --> 00:32:07,284
Coming to St. Louis and sleeping
in my mother's bedroom

738
00:32:07,390 --> 00:32:09,051
seemed to make people pregnant.

739
00:32:09,158 --> 00:32:10,648
And then, of course,
Andrew didn't come.

740
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,125
He was two weeks late.

741
00:32:12,228 --> 00:32:13,820
Things people should know about Andrew.

742
00:32:13,930 --> 00:32:15,090
He was never late.

743
00:32:40,456 --> 00:32:42,481
Hi. It's Heather.
It's 9:00 Thursday.

744
00:32:42,592 --> 00:32:45,959
Shirley went into labor
around 3:00 in the afternoon,

745
00:32:46,062 --> 00:32:47,552
Newfoundland time.

746
00:32:47,663 --> 00:32:51,997
On July 18, 2002, you were born.

747
00:32:52,101 --> 00:32:55,195
Shirley named you
Zachary Andrew Turner.

748
00:32:55,304 --> 00:32:58,273
You grandma and grandpa came
to the hospital to see you,

749
00:32:58,374 --> 00:33:00,365
but Shirley wouldn't let them
in the door.

750
00:33:00,476 --> 00:33:04,071
The stood five feet away from
you on the other side of a wall.

751
00:33:05,114 --> 00:33:07,344
They left a gift for you.

752
00:33:12,755 --> 00:33:15,246
Well,
your dad was an amazing person.

753
00:33:15,358 --> 00:33:18,122
You're gonna get such a broad range

754
00:33:18,227 --> 00:33:20,661
of different perspectives of this guy.

755
00:33:20,763 --> 00:33:22,731
You're gonna know
what his character was like

756
00:33:22,832 --> 00:33:24,732
and you're gonna know
what fun he was to be with

757
00:33:24,834 --> 00:33:28,167
and you're gonna know
that you can be proud of him.

758
00:33:28,271 --> 00:33:29,670
I flew to England
to collect the memories

759
00:33:29,772 --> 00:33:31,501
of your grandma's side
of the family for you

760
00:33:31,607 --> 00:33:33,905
and arrived just in time
for a very special occasion.

761
00:33:34,010 --> 00:33:36,171
Well, we're on the eve
of my wedding, for a start.

762
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:37,143
It's been a bit hectic.

763
00:33:37,246 --> 00:33:38,440
We're just trying to fit this interview

764
00:33:38,548 --> 00:33:40,209
in between all of the preparations.

765
00:33:40,316 --> 00:33:42,546
Your dad crossed the Atlantic to
come here almost every summer,

766
00:33:42,652 --> 00:33:44,813
but instead of heading to the
tourist attractions in London

767
00:33:44,921 --> 00:33:45,819
like everyone else,

768
00:33:45,922 --> 00:33:47,549
he'd head to the outskirts

769
00:33:47,657 --> 00:33:49,318
to spend time
with his grandparents, aunts,

770
00:33:49,425 --> 00:33:50,392
uncles, and cousins.

771
00:33:50,493 --> 00:33:52,961
He was a king to me, man.
Seriously, man.

772
00:33:53,062 --> 00:33:54,256
And, in particular,
with his cousin John.

773
00:33:54,363 --> 00:33:56,923
The main thing, I guess,
about being an only child

774
00:33:57,033 --> 00:33:59,797
is that I get to choose my brothers.

775
00:33:59,902 --> 00:34:02,370
Others of you don't.
Sorry.

776
00:34:02,471 --> 00:34:04,029
John, me brother, and Andrew

777
00:34:04,140 --> 00:34:05,573
were born within a month of each other.

778
00:34:05,675 --> 00:34:07,233
In fact, I think
it was about 30 seconds

779
00:34:07,343 --> 00:34:09,573
of the normal child,
"Who are you? Who are you?"

780
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:11,806
And then suddenly, snap,
that was it.

781
00:34:11,914 --> 00:34:14,474
We often said at least
they would have each other

782
00:34:14,584 --> 00:34:15,778
through life.

783
00:34:15,885 --> 00:34:17,284
John would always have Andrew,

784
00:34:17,386 --> 00:34:18,785
and Andrew would always have John.

785
00:34:18,888 --> 00:34:21,857
For me, kind of blur
into this haze of me and Andrew

786
00:34:21,958 --> 00:34:24,893
running around castles,
country homes, gardens.

787
00:34:24,994 --> 00:34:27,792
I mean, these fantastic
historical places.

788
00:34:27,897 --> 00:34:30,263
And, to us, they were places
to play hide and seek,

789
00:34:30,366 --> 00:34:32,493
buy water pistols,
shoot each other,

790
00:34:32,602 --> 00:34:33,864
and then get told off and thrown out.

791
00:34:33,970 --> 00:34:35,597
The interesting thing always was,

792
00:34:35,705 --> 00:34:37,366
just like the cultural differences

793
00:34:37,473 --> 00:34:38,997
between someone coming from the U.S.

794
00:34:39,108 --> 00:34:40,905
and someone in the U.K.

795
00:34:41,010 --> 00:34:41,908
That used to really bug me,

796
00:34:42,011 --> 00:34:43,979
the fact that I knew he was
going to get "Star Wars"

797
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,015
kind of 6 months before me,
that was a killer.

798
00:34:47,116 --> 00:34:48,140
'Cause, you know, it'd be like,

799
00:34:48,251 --> 00:34:50,549
"Don't you dare tell me anything
about this film!"

800
00:34:50,653 --> 00:34:53,178
He was almost kind of, as well,
my kind of chaperone

801
00:34:53,289 --> 00:34:55,780
into discovering the U.S.,
really.

802
00:34:55,892 --> 00:34:57,792
You hear people discriminate
against a whole country

803
00:34:57,894 --> 00:34:59,259
just in one fell swoop.

804
00:34:59,362 --> 00:35:01,626
But I was fortunate enough to
know very differently to that.

805
00:35:01,731 --> 00:35:04,256
I really cherish that,

806
00:35:04,367 --> 00:35:09,930
because it is my brother
that got married here tonight.

807
00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:11,097
Bizarrely enough,
one of the things

808
00:35:11,207 --> 00:35:13,675
is I always wanted Andrew
to be my best man at my wedding.

809
00:35:13,776 --> 00:35:16,006
As I would soon find out,
he was in good company.

810
00:35:16,112 --> 00:35:17,875
I had always wanted him
to be my best man.

811
00:35:17,980 --> 00:35:19,106
I had asked him to be my best man.

812
00:35:19,215 --> 00:35:21,240
It just made sense
to have him as best man.

813
00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:22,942
I can only assume
that you would have asked him

814
00:35:23,052 --> 00:35:24,110
to be your best man.

815
00:35:24,220 --> 00:35:25,346
Everybody grab your glass.

816
00:35:25,454 --> 00:35:26,751
We're gonna turn it over
to the best man, Andrew.

817
00:35:26,856 --> 00:35:29,154
Best man's a little bit of a
poor title for these things.

818
00:35:29,258 --> 00:35:30,623
I mean,
the best man's really the groom.

819
00:35:30,726 --> 00:35:33,320
I've got to try and sum up
20-some-odd years

820
00:35:33,429 --> 00:35:36,592
in, like, 2 minutes or so,

821
00:35:36,699 --> 00:35:38,064
'cause, you know,
then people will start looking

822
00:35:38,167 --> 00:35:40,465
at their champagne and thinking,
"Bagby, shut up or die."

823
00:35:50,413 --> 00:35:51,744
I miss him.

824
00:35:51,847 --> 00:35:53,576
A lot.

825
00:35:59,255 --> 00:36:05,558
That I wish he was here
at the wedding with us.

826
00:36:05,661 --> 00:36:08,960
That I'd just like to sit him down

827
00:36:09,065 --> 00:36:11,795
and talk to him again.

828
00:36:11,901 --> 00:36:14,927
Just to have him here with us.

829
00:36:15,037 --> 00:36:17,733
I really believe
your dad was there that day.

830
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,831
And if we could have heard him
give his toast,

831
00:36:19,942 --> 00:36:21,671
it might have sounded
something like this...

832
00:36:21,777 --> 00:36:23,642
Why am I standing up here?

833
00:36:23,746 --> 00:36:25,805
I guess part of it I've already said.

834
00:36:25,915 --> 00:36:29,112
We're brothers and I love you

835
00:36:29,218 --> 00:36:32,312
and I know you love me and...

836
00:36:33,856 --> 00:36:36,984
Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.

837
00:36:37,093 --> 00:36:39,254
'Cause, like I said,
I'm a Bagby male.

838
00:36:39,362 --> 00:36:42,229
We don't gush very much.

839
00:36:46,535 --> 00:36:47,433
It made me realize

840
00:36:47,536 --> 00:36:50,664
that it doesn't matter
where you come from.

841
00:36:50,773 --> 00:36:54,368
You can meet someone
and, literally, within minutes,

842
00:36:54,477 --> 00:36:58,345
you can be closer than someone
you've known for 20 years.

843
00:36:58,447 --> 00:37:00,074
And someone who'll maybe
just end up being a friend

844
00:37:00,182 --> 00:37:01,240
for the rest of your life.

845
00:37:01,350 --> 00:37:02,374
And last question.

846
00:37:02,485 --> 00:37:04,953
Is there anything
you'd like to say to Zachary?

847
00:37:05,054 --> 00:37:06,817
Zachary.

848
00:37:06,922 --> 00:37:08,514
Right.

849
00:37:09,825 --> 00:37:13,317
Yeah, I hope to see you soon,
Zachary, anyway.

850
00:37:16,198 --> 00:37:18,689
Jackie had been down earlier
in the day to file the papers

851
00:37:18,801 --> 00:37:20,894
that we wanted custody of the baby.

852
00:37:21,003 --> 00:37:22,630
We finally went to court.

853
00:37:22,738 --> 00:37:24,933
- You mean family court.
- Yes, family court.

854
00:37:25,041 --> 00:37:27,475
You know,
they negotiated with her.

855
00:37:27,576 --> 00:37:28,804
I think you know that already,

856
00:37:28,911 --> 00:37:31,607
and what access they got
with Shirley, they negotiated.

857
00:37:31,714 --> 00:37:34,114
We're coming up with agreements
with this accused murderer.

858
00:37:34,216 --> 00:37:35,547
And then Shirley Turner came up
with something else

859
00:37:35,651 --> 00:37:37,585
just at the moment
when it was all looking good.

860
00:37:37,686 --> 00:37:40,018
She always did that
so that it was extended.

861
00:37:40,122 --> 00:37:41,919
It was like, "I don't have to
pay for my lawyer.

862
00:37:42,024 --> 00:37:43,082
You have to pay for yours,

863
00:37:43,192 --> 00:37:44,955
so the longer I can make it,
it's better.

864
00:37:45,061 --> 00:37:46,221
You'll run out of money."

865
00:37:46,328 --> 00:37:48,387
But then she finally agreed
to give us one hour a week

866
00:37:48,497 --> 00:37:51,261
in Unified Family Court.

867
00:37:51,367 --> 00:37:53,130
Shirley delayed your grandma
and grandpa from meeting you

868
00:37:53,235 --> 00:37:54,133
for almost a month

869
00:37:54,236 --> 00:37:56,704
and had them treated like common
criminals in order to see you.

870
00:37:56,806 --> 00:37:58,535
She required that during
their one-hour visit,

871
00:37:58,641 --> 00:38:00,802
they be fully searched
and monitored by a supervisor

872
00:38:00,910 --> 00:38:02,707
while she waited in the next room.

873
00:38:02,812 --> 00:38:04,507
When did you first meet him?

874
00:38:04,613 --> 00:38:05,511
Meet him personally or meet him

875
00:38:05,614 --> 00:38:08,708
by seeing the light
in Kate and David's eyes?

876
00:38:08,818 --> 00:38:10,479
I mean, we were searched
and everything.

877
00:38:10,586 --> 00:38:11,951
I couldn't wait for them to search.

878
00:38:12,054 --> 00:38:13,681
I would've zipped off
all my clothes and been...

879
00:38:13,789 --> 00:38:15,518
as long as I could get
into that baby, you know?

880
00:38:15,624 --> 00:38:16,682
We went around the corner,

881
00:38:16,792 --> 00:38:19,454
and there was this overpowering thing.

882
00:38:37,546 --> 00:38:41,038
We did not do complete
tug-of-war, though.

883
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:43,482
I just gave him to Kate.

884
00:38:43,586 --> 00:38:45,383
No, no, no.

885
00:38:45,488 --> 00:38:46,716
- We shared.
- We took turns.

886
00:38:46,822 --> 00:38:48,050
The next visit, he was really...

887
00:38:48,157 --> 00:38:51,251
The next time, he was dirty,
so I changed his diaper.

888
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,487
And that's when he opened his
eyes to just kind of look at me,

889
00:38:53,596 --> 00:38:55,587
and that's when I said to David,
"Oh, my God, he's Andrew."

890
00:38:55,698 --> 00:38:57,563
I had seen lots of pictures
of Andrew at this point

891
00:38:57,666 --> 00:38:59,497
and even pictures of him as a child

892
00:38:59,602 --> 00:39:02,969
and I thought, "Holy crow,"
you know."There's no doubt."

893
00:39:03,072 --> 00:39:04,232
We wanted more time.

894
00:39:04,340 --> 00:39:05,739
So we went back.

895
00:39:05,841 --> 00:39:09,971
And this time, she accused us
of keeping him beyond the time

896
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:12,309
so that he was distraught
when he went back to her.

897
00:39:12,414 --> 00:39:15,178
She'd try a lot of manipulations
without thinking them through.

898
00:39:15,284 --> 00:39:18,447
And this one was a no-brainer,
really.

899
00:39:18,554 --> 00:39:23,491
If she accuses us of doing
anything wrong to the baby,

900
00:39:23,592 --> 00:39:27,926
she's indirectly accusing
Maureen of being a slouch.

901
00:39:28,030 --> 00:39:29,497
- The supervisor?
- The supervisor.

902
00:39:29,598 --> 00:39:31,793
You know,
Maureen's not gonna take that.

903
00:39:31,901 --> 00:39:33,835
So she just didn't think it through.

904
00:39:33,936 --> 00:39:35,460
While your grandparents
and Jackie battled Shirley

905
00:39:35,571 --> 00:39:37,163
for more time with you in family court,

906
00:39:37,273 --> 00:39:39,673
the law in the extradition
proceedings was still slow.

907
00:39:39,775 --> 00:39:40,575
September 19th.

908
00:39:40,576 --> 00:39:42,100
The extradition hearing finally began,

909
00:39:42,211 --> 00:39:43,803
and evidence was finally presented.

910
00:39:43,913 --> 00:39:45,881
But just as everything
was moving along smoothly,

911
00:39:45,981 --> 00:39:48,779
Shirley's lawyer Randy Piercey
threw a wrench into the works.

912
00:39:48,884 --> 00:39:50,784
Because the "authority to
proceed" with these hearings

913
00:39:50,886 --> 00:39:53,252
provided by the minister
of justice early that year

914
00:39:53,355 --> 00:39:55,414
had failed to specify
subsections (i) or (ii)

915
00:39:55,524 --> 00:39:57,389
of Section 229(a) of the criminal code,

916
00:39:57,493 --> 00:39:59,051
the authority to proceed was invalid,

917
00:39:59,161 --> 00:40:00,890
the 90-day limit to amend it
was now past,

918
00:40:00,996 --> 00:40:03,157
and therefore all extradition
proceedings against Shirley

919
00:40:03,265 --> 00:40:06,098
should be dropped so she could
get on with her life.

920
00:40:06,202 --> 00:40:08,898
Judge Derek Green now
had to rule on whether or not

921
00:40:09,004 --> 00:40:10,164
to throw out the entire case,

922
00:40:10,272 --> 00:40:12,263
which would take place on October 18th,

923
00:40:12,374 --> 00:40:14,968
which was delayed four days
until October 22nd,

924
00:40:15,077 --> 00:40:16,772
where Judge Green told Piercey
to forget about it

925
00:40:16,879 --> 00:40:18,676
and said they would continue
with the extradition hearing

926
00:40:18,781 --> 00:40:19,975
on November 14th.

927
00:40:21,684 --> 00:40:23,208
Meanwhile,
I came back to California,

928
00:40:23,319 --> 00:40:25,412
pointed the van east
toward Newfoundland

929
00:40:25,521 --> 00:40:27,546
and set off across the continent
on my way to see you,

930
00:40:27,656 --> 00:40:29,453
stopping all over the map
to collect the memories

931
00:40:29,558 --> 00:40:31,958
of a whole spectrum of people
your dad touched.

932
00:40:34,630 --> 00:40:36,188
But it was when I pulled into St. Louis

933
00:40:36,298 --> 00:40:37,424
to see your grandpa's family...

934
00:40:37,533 --> 00:40:39,763
- Are you the oldest?
- Yeah, I'm the oldest.

935
00:40:39,868 --> 00:40:41,495
Bob was the middle one.

936
00:40:41,604 --> 00:40:42,593
He's one year younger than me.

937
00:40:42,705 --> 00:40:44,332
...that I discovered
a very special place

938
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,670
where your dad had left his heart.

939
00:40:46,775 --> 00:40:49,073
Andrew and Bob were very, very close.

940
00:40:49,178 --> 00:40:51,043
To see them around each other,
you'd think that Andrew

941
00:40:51,146 --> 00:40:53,808
had grown up his entire life
around Bob.

942
00:40:53,916 --> 00:40:57,181
You wouldn't know that it was
a once-a-summer relationship.

943
00:40:57,286 --> 00:40:59,754
Bob used to take Andrew out
and let him drive the truck

944
00:40:59,855 --> 00:41:01,379
before he was old enough.

945
00:41:01,490 --> 00:41:02,923
And they'd play pool.

946
00:41:03,025 --> 00:41:04,424
And my dad was very good at pool,

947
00:41:04,526 --> 00:41:07,393
but then Mack came along who was
even probably better at pool.

948
00:41:07,496 --> 00:41:11,091
I would say he was excellent,
but he wasn't as good as me.

949
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,794
He probably still owes me
around $30,000.

950
00:41:13,902 --> 00:41:19,033
Okay, Mack is my daughter
Rhonda's first husband.

951
00:41:19,141 --> 00:41:20,631
I don't know.
They just clicked.

952
00:41:20,743 --> 00:41:23,405
I mean, they just clicked.
I can't explain why or anything.

953
00:41:23,512 --> 00:41:25,070
Automatically my little brother.

954
00:41:25,180 --> 00:41:28,843
That's the way I looked at it,
you know.

955
00:41:29,718 --> 00:41:33,279
We just become friends.

956
00:41:34,156 --> 00:41:37,421
This is our clubhouse
that me and Bob had.

957
00:41:37,526 --> 00:41:41,690
And he used to love to come down here.

958
00:41:41,797 --> 00:41:43,230
As soon as he'd hit town,

959
00:41:43,332 --> 00:41:45,232
we'd come down here
and just stay for days.

960
00:41:45,334 --> 00:41:46,232
Dave and Katie and them would come out.

961
00:41:46,335 --> 00:41:48,326
Always have a big barbecue or fish fry.

962
00:41:48,437 --> 00:41:49,665
Get the johnboat and head up the river.

963
00:41:49,772 --> 00:41:50,670
He was the captain.

964
00:41:50,773 --> 00:41:52,764
Me and Bob got to the point
where we didn't even think about

965
00:41:52,875 --> 00:41:54,502
who was gonna drive the boat
if Andrew was here.

966
00:41:54,610 --> 00:41:58,011
At nighttime, they'd stack up
logs and build a bonfire.

967
00:41:58,113 --> 00:41:59,410
And we'd buy fireworks,
you know.

968
00:41:59,515 --> 00:42:01,244
It'd be beautiful 'cause
it was real dark out there.

969
00:42:01,350 --> 00:42:02,817
"That's really stupid, me
checking to see if you're hurt

970
00:42:02,918 --> 00:42:04,010
when you're gonna be a damn doctor.

971
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:05,017
You ought to know yourself."

972
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,317
I said, "If you're smart,
you'll be a gynecologist."

973
00:42:08,424 --> 00:42:12,383
Doctor came into the room
and said he had bad news.

974
00:42:12,494 --> 00:42:16,362
He said that the cancer had spread

975
00:42:16,465 --> 00:42:19,263
to his bones and to his liver.

976
00:42:19,368 --> 00:42:21,302
Bob looked at him and said,
"I want the truth."

977
00:42:21,403 --> 00:42:23,268
He said, "3 to 6 months."

978
00:42:23,372 --> 00:42:26,569
I mean, I can come down here
anytime I want.

979
00:42:26,675 --> 00:42:29,143
I just don't have time anymore,
really.

980
00:42:29,244 --> 00:42:31,474
I lost...

981
00:42:35,017 --> 00:42:36,985
I lost total interest
in a lot of things

982
00:42:37,086 --> 00:42:39,680
when Bob died, for some reason.

983
00:42:39,788 --> 00:42:43,019
I know it was hard on Andrew,
too.

984
00:42:44,626 --> 00:42:47,720
'Cause he wrote me
a little note, a letter.

985
00:42:47,830 --> 00:42:51,891
Bob was very proud of him.

986
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:54,594
Imagine him and Andrew
are laughing at me right now.

987
00:42:59,174 --> 00:43:01,472
Both assholes.

988
00:43:05,881 --> 00:43:07,576
Are you sad now?

989
00:43:07,683 --> 00:43:10,243
Yeah, I'm still sad.

990
00:43:12,454 --> 00:43:14,319
I'll be okay.

991
00:43:14,423 --> 00:43:15,913
Come here.
Come give me a hug.

992
00:43:16,024 --> 00:43:18,618
That'd make me feel better.

993
00:43:18,727 --> 00:43:20,661
He was great.

994
00:43:20,763 --> 00:43:22,560
If there's anything I can do,
I'll be there.

995
00:43:22,664 --> 00:43:23,562
Well, we hope to see him.

996
00:43:23,665 --> 00:43:26,031
And we can show him pictures
and everything.

997
00:43:26,135 --> 00:43:27,534
We'd love to be a part of that as well.

998
00:43:27,636 --> 00:43:29,194
To share our lives with him.

999
00:43:29,304 --> 00:43:32,171
Oh, how I wish I could be there
and pinch those little cheeks.

1000
00:43:33,675 --> 00:43:37,167
Zachary, you'll never know
what you missed.

1001
00:43:50,626 --> 00:43:52,423
On November 14, 2002,

1002
00:43:52,528 --> 00:43:54,996
Judge Derek Green declared
that a properly instructed jury

1003
00:43:55,097 --> 00:43:56,394
could likely find Shirley guilty

1004
00:43:56,498 --> 00:43:57,931
and ordered her incarcerated

1005
00:43:58,033 --> 00:43:59,625
in the Clarenville
Correctional Centre for Women,

1006
00:43:59,735 --> 00:44:01,464
awaiting a decision
from the minister of justice

1007
00:44:01,570 --> 00:44:03,299
to surrender her to the United States.

1008
00:44:03,405 --> 00:44:05,965
She always seemed to know
exactly when to turn nice.

1009
00:44:06,074 --> 00:44:08,008
And it was a pretty obvious time
to turn nice.

1010
00:44:08,110 --> 00:44:09,168
Suddenly, Shirley turned around

1011
00:44:09,278 --> 00:44:10,768
and gave your grandma
and grandpa custody of you

1012
00:44:10,879 --> 00:44:12,141
for as long as she was in prison.

1013
00:44:12,247 --> 00:44:14,238
We could stop in and see him
whenever we liked.

1014
00:44:14,349 --> 00:44:15,281
And we did.

1015
00:44:15,384 --> 00:44:17,818
They were so excited,
it was Christmas Eve,

1016
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,286
and, you know, it had started
to snow a little bit.

1017
00:44:20,389 --> 00:44:21,822
The doorbell was ringing,

1018
00:44:21,924 --> 00:44:23,289
and someone showed up with a present.

1019
00:44:23,392 --> 00:44:25,758
And then Alan Goodridge,
he was a professor,

1020
00:44:25,861 --> 00:44:29,126
one of Andrew's professors,
he showed up with something.

1021
00:44:29,231 --> 00:44:30,129
I don't know what.

1022
00:44:30,232 --> 00:44:31,790
And then, you know,
finally, I said, "What?

1023
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:35,131
Have you got the Magi
showing up at your house?"

1024
00:44:35,237 --> 00:44:37,432
We went to church with them
on Christmas Eve.

1025
00:44:37,539 --> 00:44:40,372
If Zachary got fussy, you know,
they would pick him up

1026
00:44:40,476 --> 00:44:41,408
and they would feed him

1027
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:43,137
and they'd walk
to the back of the church.

1028
00:44:43,245 --> 00:44:45,406
If there's people in this church
that don't know the five of us,

1029
00:44:45,514 --> 00:44:47,414
it looks like these are
the grandparents,

1030
00:44:47,516 --> 00:44:49,450
we're the parents,
and Zachary is our child.

1031
00:44:49,551 --> 00:44:52,349
I said,
"We look like terrible parents!"

1032
00:44:52,454 --> 00:44:54,513
He was besotted with them,
the child was.

1033
00:44:54,623 --> 00:44:56,784
You know,
no one could comfort him.

1034
00:44:56,892 --> 00:44:57,790
Only Kate.

1035
00:44:57,893 --> 00:44:59,326
They were so happy.

1036
00:44:59,428 --> 00:45:01,089
But it wasn't all sweetness and light.

1037
00:45:01,196 --> 00:45:02,595
You came with strings attached.

1038
00:45:02,698 --> 00:45:04,222
The reason we reached consent

1039
00:45:04,333 --> 00:45:05,766
and the reason she reached consent

1040
00:45:05,868 --> 00:45:09,998
is if you reach consent,
you have some control.

1041
00:45:10,105 --> 00:45:14,804
We'd accept a phone call a day
from jail to talk about Zachary.

1042
00:45:14,910 --> 00:45:17,140
Which the foster home
would have done anyway, see?

1043
00:45:17,246 --> 00:45:18,975
This is Aliant Telecom.

1044
00:45:19,081 --> 00:45:21,914
- You have a collect call from...
- Shirley.

1045
00:45:22,017 --> 00:45:25,077
You may press 1 now
to accept the charges.

1046
00:45:25,187 --> 00:45:27,985
- Hello?
- Hi.

1047
00:46:05,227 --> 00:46:06,421
Or "Mommy with baby."

1048
00:46:47,803 --> 00:46:50,863
We'd bring him up to the prison
for a weekly visit.

1049
00:46:56,111 --> 00:46:58,238
That was astounding.

1050
00:47:02,718 --> 00:47:03,980
Imposition.

1051
00:47:04,086 --> 00:47:05,678
Each week,
they would drive two hours

1052
00:47:05,787 --> 00:47:07,414
to the jail where Shirley was

1053
00:47:07,522 --> 00:47:09,922
so that she would be able
to see her son

1054
00:47:10,025 --> 00:47:11,253
and to follow the visitation rights,

1055
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,954
because just as Kate and David
wanted visitation rights,

1056
00:47:14,062 --> 00:47:17,395
they had to honor
Shirley's visitation rights.

1057
00:47:17,499 --> 00:47:18,397
And in the winter.

1058
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:20,127
But the weather, needless
to say, in Newfoundland.

1059
00:47:20,235 --> 00:47:21,532
The weather here is terrible.

1060
00:47:21,637 --> 00:47:23,764
To make that journey was awful.

1061
00:47:23,872 --> 00:47:26,773
Only Kate and David would have
done it, really, I think.

1062
00:47:28,310 --> 00:47:29,902
Nobody else would have done it.

1063
00:47:30,012 --> 00:47:32,776
The one guard, the one day,
said to Kate and David,

1064
00:47:32,881 --> 00:47:34,576
speaking to Zachary,

1065
00:47:34,683 --> 00:47:37,584
"Zachary, I hope some day
you will realize

1066
00:47:37,686 --> 00:47:41,144
how brave and courageous
your grandparents are."

1067
00:47:41,256 --> 00:47:43,918
Like, I think if I could be
a quarter of the grandma

1068
00:47:44,026 --> 00:47:46,187
that Kate is,
I'd be such a success.

1069
00:47:46,294 --> 00:47:48,990
You know,
seeing them with Zachary.

1070
00:47:49,097 --> 00:47:51,031
Just to see the looks
on their faces, Kurt,

1071
00:47:51,133 --> 00:47:53,101
when they'd have him, you know.

1072
00:47:53,201 --> 00:47:56,932
You know, to see them so happy.

1073
00:48:00,375 --> 00:48:05,108
And then, you know,
that ended, didn't it?

1074
00:48:07,582 --> 00:48:09,413
Now crossing the east coast
of the U.S.,

1075
00:48:09,518 --> 00:48:10,985
I was almost to you.

1076
00:48:11,086 --> 00:48:13,145
I pulled off the main road
for one last stop,

1077
00:48:13,255 --> 00:48:14,449
a small-town utopia

1078
00:48:14,556 --> 00:48:17,047
where your dad had spent the
last four months of his life.

1079
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:18,956
It was here that I would find
the only people

1080
00:48:19,061 --> 00:48:20,756
who knew what he was like as a doctor,

1081
00:48:20,862 --> 00:48:22,056
just days before they would graduate

1082
00:48:22,164 --> 00:48:24,132
and scatter to the winds.

1083
00:48:24,232 --> 00:48:26,700
Latrobe is famous for Mr. Rogers.

1084
00:48:26,802 --> 00:48:28,770
Of children's TV fame.

1085
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:30,462
Rolling Rock beer.

1086
00:48:30,572 --> 00:48:32,130
It's the birthplace
of professional football,

1087
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:34,435
though some would argue that.

1088
00:48:34,543 --> 00:48:35,567
At Strickler's Pharmacy,

1089
00:48:35,677 --> 00:48:38,305
I'm told that the banana split
was invented here in Latrobe.

1090
00:48:38,413 --> 00:48:39,213
And Arnold Palmer.

1091
00:48:39,281 --> 00:48:43,012
Mr. Palmer's a very important
figure in this community.

1092
00:48:43,118 --> 00:48:44,483
This is a community where people
don't even lock their doors.

1093
00:48:44,586 --> 00:48:45,814
Your dad's door

1094
00:48:45,921 --> 00:48:47,582
was directly across the street
from the hospital,

1095
00:48:47,689 --> 00:48:49,213
giving him a 30-second commute to work.

1096
00:48:49,324 --> 00:48:50,723
And I said,
"Can I call you 'Andy'?"

1097
00:48:50,826 --> 00:48:52,555
And he goes, "Actually,
I don't like Andy."

1098
00:48:52,661 --> 00:48:53,923
He said,
"You can call me 'Andrew,'

1099
00:48:54,029 --> 00:48:55,724
you can call me 'Bagby,'
you can call me 'Bags'."

1100
00:48:55,831 --> 00:48:56,923
I never did.

1101
00:48:57,032 --> 00:48:58,056
Ten minutes after I arrived,

1102
00:48:58,166 --> 00:49:00,396
Dr. Bill DiCuccio picked me up
to show me around town.

1103
00:49:03,171 --> 00:49:04,934
His class, it was Bill DiCuccio.

1104
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,837
And after hanging with Bill
for a short while,

1105
00:49:06,942 --> 00:49:08,671
I completely understood why.

1106
00:49:08,777 --> 00:49:10,369
This is yours to take with you
in your travels

1107
00:49:10,479 --> 00:49:11,377
to remember
the Chief Resident's office.

1108
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,845
They were like Mutt and Jeff.

1109
00:49:12,948 --> 00:49:14,506
They were Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

1110
00:49:14,616 --> 00:49:18,177
Bill was just devastated, as
we all were, but especially so.

1111
00:49:18,286 --> 00:49:19,753
I think Bill had spent more time
with him.

1112
00:49:19,855 --> 00:49:22,380
And I know there was
a third-year resident, Clark,

1113
00:49:22,491 --> 00:49:24,425
who was quite close with him.

1114
00:49:24,526 --> 00:49:27,461
He was this surgical resident
from Syracuse.

1115
00:49:27,562 --> 00:49:29,393
Being a former surgical intern,
that's a big deal.

1116
00:49:29,498 --> 00:49:30,396
They're all about cutting,

1117
00:49:30,499 --> 00:49:32,433
and what we do
is a little bit different.

1118
00:49:32,534 --> 00:49:34,161
It's more about people.

1119
00:49:34,269 --> 00:49:35,736
I would say to him,
"Now, you go out there

1120
00:49:35,837 --> 00:49:38,362
and you listen to the heart
and you talk to those people

1121
00:49:38,473 --> 00:49:39,462
because, you know, people talk.

1122
00:49:39,574 --> 00:49:41,201
They're not just unconscious
all the time."

1123
00:49:41,309 --> 00:49:43,607
Your dad also had an office
visit every Monday afternoon

1124
00:49:43,712 --> 00:49:45,270
at the last place
he was ever seen alive,

1125
00:49:45,380 --> 00:49:48,144
a clinic in the small town
of Saltsburg,

1126
00:49:48,250 --> 00:49:49,842
a beautiful 30-minute drive away
through the country,

1127
00:49:49,951 --> 00:49:52,715
past a lovely spot
called Keystone State Park.

1128
00:49:52,821 --> 00:49:55,483
He was already,
just within a couple of months,

1129
00:49:55,590 --> 00:49:58,957
already getting patients to call
and specifically ask for him.

1130
00:49:59,060 --> 00:50:00,493
Hi. I'm Dr. Bagby.

1131
00:50:00,595 --> 00:50:02,825
People trusted him
when he walked into a room.

1132
00:50:02,931 --> 00:50:04,489
'Cause medicine's
a little like being a detective.

1133
00:50:04,599 --> 00:50:07,295
Has anyone else in your family
experienced this?

1134
00:50:07,402 --> 00:50:09,029
When you think of people
who have passed,

1135
00:50:09,137 --> 00:50:12,038
you can't help but paint
a rosy glow around them.

1136
00:50:12,140 --> 00:50:13,471
More than half of it

1137
00:50:13,575 --> 00:50:15,770
is being able to get a story
out of somebody.

1138
00:50:15,877 --> 00:50:17,845
It's not what's happening in this case.

1139
00:50:17,946 --> 00:50:18,935
I'll always be grateful to him

1140
00:50:19,047 --> 00:50:20,344
because he diagnosed
my nephew's cancer.

1141
00:50:20,448 --> 00:50:21,380
He diagnosed it early enough

1142
00:50:21,483 --> 00:50:23,314
that he was able to get
complete treatment.

1143
00:50:23,418 --> 00:50:25,716
He was really pretty outstanding
at this stuff.

1144
00:50:25,821 --> 00:50:27,220
He was told he may never have children.

1145
00:50:27,322 --> 00:50:28,755
He just has a newborn baby.

1146
00:50:28,857 --> 00:50:29,846
He always told me

1147
00:50:29,958 --> 00:50:33,553
that he wanted to practice
in a town the size of Latrobe

1148
00:50:33,662 --> 00:50:35,857
and be like the doc of the town.

1149
00:50:35,964 --> 00:50:37,625
Know everybody,
know everybody's family.

1150
00:50:37,732 --> 00:50:40,030
And we really thought
he'd found heaven.

1151
00:50:41,603 --> 00:50:43,764
But we packed our bags,
went to bed,

1152
00:50:43,872 --> 00:50:45,772
'cause we knew we were leaving
the next morning.

1153
00:50:45,874 --> 00:50:50,243
And we stayed in the upstairs
spare bedroom of Andrew's house.

1154
00:50:50,345 --> 00:50:52,779
The next morning,
we saw him off at 6:30.

1155
00:50:52,881 --> 00:50:54,246
And as I say,
that's when I noticed

1156
00:50:54,349 --> 00:50:56,112
he was blinking for the first time.

1157
00:50:56,218 --> 00:50:58,243
And he did that
when he was a little boy

1158
00:50:58,353 --> 00:51:00,913
when he was nervous
or worried about something.

1159
00:51:01,022 --> 00:51:03,354
Just blink.
Blink, blink.

1160
00:51:03,458 --> 00:51:06,586
And I wanted to say to him,
"Oh, Andrew, what's the matter?"

1161
00:51:06,695 --> 00:51:07,787
He stood up.

1162
00:51:07,896 --> 00:51:10,091
And I remember he looked at us
such a long time.

1163
00:51:10,198 --> 00:51:13,099
But he came over and
he kissed me and kissed his dad.

1164
00:51:13,201 --> 00:51:14,828
And then he got halfway into that room

1165
00:51:14,936 --> 00:51:16,062
and he came back and kissed us again,

1166
00:51:16,171 --> 00:51:17,934
and we went with him and he
kissed us again at the door.

1167
00:51:18,039 --> 00:51:21,406
And then he got
across the hospital there,

1168
00:51:21,509 --> 00:51:23,306
down that alley and just went...

1169
00:51:27,382 --> 00:51:29,350
And he was gone.

1170
00:51:29,451 --> 00:51:35,117
That was the last time
until we saw him dead.

1171
00:51:35,223 --> 00:51:38,090
And I can remember Andrew saying,

1172
00:51:38,193 --> 00:51:41,219
"If I die tomorrow,

1173
00:51:41,329 --> 00:51:45,823
all I want you to do is sit
and toast a beer to me."

1174
00:51:45,934 --> 00:51:47,026
Do you remember that?

1175
00:51:47,135 --> 00:51:49,399
When his parents had finished
cleaning out his apartment,

1176
00:51:49,504 --> 00:51:52,098
they gave me his last beer.

1177
00:51:52,207 --> 00:51:53,697
We have one bottle remaining.

1178
00:51:53,808 --> 00:51:56,641
We're gonna crack Andrew's
last Fuller's ESB right now,

1179
00:51:56,745 --> 00:51:58,906
and Kurt and I
are gonna sip it together.

1180
00:51:59,014 --> 00:52:00,743
A little toast to our friend.

1181
00:52:02,217 --> 00:52:04,378
To Andrew, my good friend,
I can't wait to see you again.

1182
00:52:07,822 --> 00:52:11,019
And then, of course,
the unthinkable happened again.

1183
00:52:11,126 --> 00:52:13,060
They let her out of jail again.

1184
00:52:13,161 --> 00:52:14,992
And we had to give him back

1185
00:52:15,096 --> 00:52:17,496
on January 10, 2003.

1186
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:19,226
Shirley was out of money
and out of a lawyer,

1187
00:52:19,334 --> 00:52:20,995
so she wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,

1188
00:52:21,102 --> 00:52:22,467
who responded through his secretary

1189
00:52:22,570 --> 00:52:24,231
with instructions
on how to write her own appeal

1190
00:52:24,339 --> 00:52:25,704
of his decision to incarcerate her

1191
00:52:25,807 --> 00:52:27,638
while awaiting an order
from the minister of justice

1192
00:52:27,742 --> 00:52:29,266
to surrender her to the States.

1193
00:52:29,377 --> 00:52:30,537
I have a few friends who are judges,

1194
00:52:30,645 --> 00:52:32,306
and there's no way

1195
00:52:32,414 --> 00:52:34,279
they would ever have responded

1196
00:52:34,382 --> 00:52:37,112
in the way that judge responded
to Shirley.

1197
00:52:37,218 --> 00:52:39,448
She did and was let back
onto the streets by...

1198
00:52:39,554 --> 00:52:41,545
Judge Gale Welsh.

1199
00:52:41,656 --> 00:52:43,123
Judge Gale Welsh.

1200
00:52:43,224 --> 00:52:44,316
Welsh refused to even consider

1201
00:52:44,426 --> 00:52:45,791
Prosecutor Mike Madden's argument

1202
00:52:45,894 --> 00:52:47,191
that Shirley's appeal was frivolous,

1203
00:52:47,295 --> 00:52:48,887
even though multiple
Legal Aid Commission attorneys

1204
00:52:48,997 --> 00:52:49,964
had reviewed her appeal

1205
00:52:50,065 --> 00:52:51,896
and refused to waste their time
representing her.

1206
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:52,898
And if you could have seen her,

1207
00:52:53,001 --> 00:52:56,459
I knew that we were going to be
seeing Shirley Turner walk free

1208
00:52:56,571 --> 00:52:59,233
the minute that woman walked
into the room, Judge Welsh.

1209
00:52:59,341 --> 00:53:02,742
She was almost fawning with
Shirley Turner, as I saw it.

1210
00:53:02,844 --> 00:53:04,835
"Oh, Dr. Turner," she said.

1211
00:53:04,946 --> 00:53:06,311
"I recognize
that you're not represented

1212
00:53:06,414 --> 00:53:08,507
but also know that, as a doctor,
you're quite capable,

1213
00:53:08,616 --> 00:53:09,514
so I'm going to run...

1214
00:53:09,617 --> 00:53:11,608
Dr. Turner,
I'm not trying to exclude you,

1215
00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:13,688
however the argument
would work to your benefit.

1216
00:53:13,788 --> 00:53:14,914
That's why I'm particularly interested

1217
00:53:15,023 --> 00:53:16,047
in Mr. Madden's response."

1218
00:53:16,157 --> 00:53:17,488
I'd taken Zachary to prison.

1219
00:53:17,592 --> 00:53:19,219
I'd sat in that same little room
with her.

1220
00:53:19,327 --> 00:53:20,692
And here I am having to listen to this

1221
00:53:20,795 --> 00:53:22,285
and the judge fawn on this woman.

1222
00:53:22,397 --> 00:53:24,262
And Welsh actually asked
an accused murderer

1223
00:53:24,366 --> 00:53:26,095
to promise she'd behave herself.

1224
00:53:26,201 --> 00:53:28,032
"If I make an order giving you
judicial interim release,

1225
00:53:28,136 --> 00:53:30,104
it would be on the basis that
you would not attempt to flee

1226
00:53:30,205 --> 00:53:32,264
or hide or avoid subsequent
judicial proceedings

1227
00:53:32,374 --> 00:53:33,341
related to this matter?"

1228
00:53:33,441 --> 00:53:34,009
"Yes."

1229
00:53:34,109 --> 00:53:35,633
"Is that completely understood by you?"

1230
00:53:35,744 --> 00:53:37,041
"Yes, I completely understand."

1231
00:53:37,145 --> 00:53:39,670
And here are David and I
as if we don't even exist.

1232
00:53:39,781 --> 00:53:41,442
And we don't exist.
They don't care about us.

1233
00:53:41,549 --> 00:53:42,948
They don't even care about the victim.

1234
00:53:43,051 --> 00:53:43,949
She concluded that...

1235
00:53:44,052 --> 00:53:45,849
And this is from her written decision.

1236
00:53:45,954 --> 00:53:47,478
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

1237
00:53:47,589 --> 00:53:48,556
in the public interest.

1238
00:53:48,656 --> 00:53:49,953
While the offence
with which she is charged

1239
00:53:50,058 --> 00:53:51,355
is a violent and serious one,

1240
00:53:51,459 --> 00:53:53,484
it was not directed
at the public at large.

1241
00:53:53,595 --> 00:53:55,586
There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

1242
00:53:55,697 --> 00:53:56,595
that would give concern

1243
00:53:56,698 --> 00:53:58,131
about potential harm
to the public generally,

1244
00:53:58,233 --> 00:54:01,327
as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

1245
00:54:01,436 --> 00:54:04,701
She is saying, in effect,
if I understand that sentence,

1246
00:54:04,806 --> 00:54:09,004
even if she did it, she's not
a danger to the community

1247
00:54:09,110 --> 00:54:12,079
because she's already killed
the only one she wanted to kill.

1248
00:54:12,180 --> 00:54:14,580
He's the one she was mad at.

1249
00:54:14,682 --> 00:54:16,445
He's dead.

1250
00:54:16,551 --> 00:54:18,985
So she's not likely to kill again.

1251
00:54:19,087 --> 00:54:22,784
And I find that logic
absolutely atrocious.

1252
00:54:22,891 --> 00:54:25,257
Most of us do not kill people
who anger us.

1253
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,089
We go kick a door,
scream and shout,

1254
00:54:27,195 --> 00:54:28,184
some of us throw a punch,

1255
00:54:28,296 --> 00:54:29,923
but we don't set them up and kill them.

1256
00:54:30,031 --> 00:54:31,328
You have here a human being

1257
00:54:31,433 --> 00:54:32,900
who thinks they have the right

1258
00:54:33,001 --> 00:54:36,300
to kill other people who anger them.

1259
00:54:36,404 --> 00:54:39,237
And you still let them out
in the general populace.

1260
00:54:39,340 --> 00:54:41,274
I find that appalling.

1261
00:54:41,376 --> 00:54:43,844
She was again let go
on $75,000 in sureties,

1262
00:54:43,945 --> 00:54:45,310
not one penny of which had to be paid.

1263
00:54:45,413 --> 00:54:47,347
And with that,
the government of Canada

1264
00:54:47,449 --> 00:54:49,883
let a probable pre-meditated
first-degree murderer

1265
00:54:49,984 --> 00:54:53,010
walk the streets again.

1266
00:54:53,121 --> 00:54:56,147
And they gave you back to her.

1267
00:54:57,892 --> 00:55:00,190
And after that,
things got really weird.

1268
00:55:05,467 --> 00:55:08,129
We went and wrote
another consent order.

1269
00:55:08,236 --> 00:55:11,262
And we agreed to a schedule of visits

1270
00:55:11,372 --> 00:55:14,808
with 3 or 4 hours three times a week

1271
00:55:14,909 --> 00:55:16,570
and an overnight every two weeks.

1272
00:55:16,678 --> 00:55:22,639
We got them to let us have
more contact with Shirley

1273
00:55:22,750 --> 00:55:26,208
- in order to...
- Pass him back and forth.

1274
00:55:26,321 --> 00:55:27,686
Otherwise,
we never could have done it.

1275
00:55:37,298 --> 00:55:39,596
Because we've always had to
arrange for a third party.

1276
00:55:39,701 --> 00:55:42,329
And then that third party
would be not available.

1277
00:55:42,437 --> 00:55:45,372
And we saw that we'd never get
visits with the baby

1278
00:55:45,473 --> 00:55:46,701
because she could always find a reason

1279
00:55:46,808 --> 00:55:47,934
that there was nobody there,
you know?

1280
00:55:55,483 --> 00:56:00,546
So this evolved into us actually
spending a great deal of time

1281
00:56:00,655 --> 00:56:01,713
with Shirley Turner.

1282
00:56:07,896 --> 00:56:09,659
In order to be around Zachary.

1283
00:56:14,669 --> 00:56:16,864
- What kind of things did you do?
- Go to the mall.

1284
00:56:16,971 --> 00:56:19,030
Go to the movies.
Swimming lessons we took him to.

1285
00:56:22,777 --> 00:56:25,041
She came here, bold as brass,

1286
00:56:25,146 --> 00:56:27,080
coming to be "in our face"
kind of thing.

1287
00:56:30,919 --> 00:56:33,285
I had enormous fears for them.

1288
00:56:33,388 --> 00:56:35,754
I had a fear that Shirley
would go for them.

1289
00:56:40,762 --> 00:56:42,627
And they didn't seem to be
worried for themselves.

1290
00:56:42,730 --> 00:56:43,856
In fact, they said they weren't.

1291
00:56:48,970 --> 00:56:50,232
That, at this point,
that they didn't care.

1292
00:56:54,809 --> 00:56:56,504
Can you describe what that
process was like for you?

1293
00:57:01,749 --> 00:57:03,080
- Disgusting!
- Oh, disgusting.

1294
00:57:11,492 --> 00:57:12,959
But going up to the door,
I mean, was...

1295
00:57:18,299 --> 00:57:19,266
Having to be with her...

1296
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,575
...was just nauseating.

1297
00:57:44,192 --> 00:57:46,820
We religiously did not talk
about the case.

1298
00:58:02,577 --> 00:58:04,909
She'd try to suck us into conversation.

1299
00:58:05,013 --> 00:58:06,139
Like, she'd talk about,

1300
00:58:06,247 --> 00:58:07,942
"Was Andrew's hair light
when he was a baby?"

1301
00:58:08,049 --> 00:58:09,175
And we'd just shut up.

1302
00:58:19,260 --> 00:58:20,625
I thought it was like being at war.

1303
00:58:23,765 --> 00:58:25,130
Nobody wants to do it,
but you got to do it.

1304
00:58:30,471 --> 00:58:31,597
So facing this bitch...

1305
00:58:38,613 --> 00:58:39,841
...that's the price we had to pay

1306
00:58:39,947 --> 00:58:41,812
to make sure we had a good
connection with Zachary.

1307
00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:46,746
He knew us.
We knew him.

1308
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:51,188
So that when she finally
went to prison...

1309
00:58:52,927 --> 00:58:55,623
...he'd have a smooth transition
into our life.

1310
00:59:10,511 --> 00:59:12,945
I just feel awe about that.

1311
00:59:13,047 --> 00:59:15,015
I can't...

1312
00:59:15,116 --> 00:59:17,380
I don't know how they did it,
Kurt.

1313
00:59:17,485 --> 00:59:20,716
I don't know how they did it,
but I know why they did it.

1314
00:59:34,102 --> 00:59:39,335
And, finally, after thousands
of miles and memories,

1315
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,774
on a rainy Sunday afternoon,
we met.

1316
00:59:46,147 --> 00:59:48,240
Hello, bud!

1317
00:59:48,349 --> 00:59:49,316
Hello!

1318
00:59:49,417 --> 00:59:52,079
This is your Uncle Kurt.

1319
00:59:53,388 --> 00:59:55,083
Hi, buddy.

1320
00:59:57,792 --> 01:00:01,353
He knew your daddy
when he was a little boy.

1321
01:00:01,462 --> 01:00:03,987
It's Uncle Kurt.
It's okay.

1322
01:00:05,466 --> 01:00:07,730
Is there anything that you
would like to say to Zachary?

1323
01:00:07,835 --> 01:00:08,733
Oh, wow.

1324
01:00:08,836 --> 01:00:10,269
Without tearing up here?

1325
01:00:11,973 --> 01:00:14,441
First of all,
I saw your pictures.

1326
01:00:14,542 --> 01:00:15,941
And you are a very cute kid,

1327
01:00:16,043 --> 01:00:18,341
and you look exactly like Andrew.

1328
01:00:18,446 --> 01:00:20,573
Definitely the cheeky
Andrew face, definitely.

1329
01:00:22,984 --> 01:00:24,781
Zachary,
you're a lucky little boy.

1330
01:00:24,886 --> 01:00:27,787
And you're an unfortunate little boy.

1331
01:00:27,889 --> 01:00:30,119
Your father,
who you'll never know,

1332
01:00:30,224 --> 01:00:33,557
was such an amazing guy.

1333
01:00:33,661 --> 01:00:38,121
And he touched so many people
in such a short period of time.

1334
01:00:38,232 --> 01:00:41,326
It's not just stories.
He was a real person.

1335
01:00:41,436 --> 01:00:42,994
Quite frankly,
don't let anybody lie to you.

1336
01:00:43,104 --> 01:00:45,470
Wouldn't eat anything green
until he went away to college.

1337
01:00:45,573 --> 01:00:47,871
Zachary is asleep in the other room.

1338
01:00:47,975 --> 01:00:49,738
He's spending the night.

1339
01:00:49,844 --> 01:00:52,711
And you're an unfortunate little boy

1340
01:00:52,814 --> 01:00:54,475
because you're more
than likely to grow up

1341
01:00:54,582 --> 01:01:00,316
without your biological father
or your biological mother.

1342
01:01:00,421 --> 01:01:02,048
But with a little bit of luck,

1343
01:01:02,156 --> 01:01:05,216
you'll get to grow up
with Andrew's parents.

1344
01:01:05,326 --> 01:01:08,557
And let me tell you this.

1345
01:01:08,663 --> 01:01:11,564
They did the most amazing job.

1346
01:01:11,666 --> 01:01:14,191
You couldn't ask for two better people.

1347
01:01:14,302 --> 01:01:16,793
<i>Grandma loves you,</i>
<i>yes, she does</i>

1348
01:01:16,904 --> 01:01:19,634
<i>Granddad loves you,</i>
<i>yes, he does</i>

1349
01:01:19,740 --> 01:01:21,935
<i>Daddy loves you,</i>
<i>yes, he does</i>

1350
01:01:22,043 --> 01:01:24,671
<i>Uncle Kurt's here,</i>
<i>he loves you, too</i>

1351
01:01:24,779 --> 01:01:27,304
<i>We all love you, all we can</i>

1352
01:01:27,415 --> 01:01:29,679
<i>Darling, darling little man</i>

1353
01:01:29,784 --> 01:01:31,081
So, from that perspective,

1354
01:01:31,185 --> 01:01:32,550
you're the luckiest little boy
in the world.

1355
01:01:32,653 --> 01:01:35,019
They love you more than life itself.

1356
01:01:35,122 --> 01:01:38,353
And if you ever need anything,
I'm not far away either.

1357
01:01:38,459 --> 01:01:40,290
And know that we'll be there for you

1358
01:01:40,394 --> 01:01:43,295
in every way that he can't be.

1359
01:01:43,397 --> 01:01:45,865
Zach, when you're old enough
and you watch this,

1360
01:01:45,967 --> 01:01:48,231
if you ever want to talk with me
personally

1361
01:01:48,336 --> 01:01:49,496
or you want to come and see me,

1362
01:01:49,604 --> 01:01:51,799
you have an open invitation
and you should know that.

1363
01:01:51,906 --> 01:01:53,874
And you're loved and I love you

1364
01:01:53,975 --> 01:01:55,499
and I care about the person
you're gonna become.

1365
01:01:55,610 --> 01:01:58,010
We love him, and we do simple
things like send him books.

1366
01:01:58,112 --> 01:02:00,512
- Happy Birthday!
- Can't wait to meet him.

1367
01:02:00,615 --> 01:02:02,947
I hope to get the chance to meet you.

1368
01:02:03,050 --> 01:02:04,711
Oh, I hope I'm Uncle Ken to Zachary.

1369
01:02:04,819 --> 01:02:07,447
'Cause if you're anything like
Andrew, it's gonna be good.

1370
01:02:07,555 --> 01:02:09,853
I think you'll turn out just great.

1371
01:02:09,957 --> 01:02:11,982
It says "Student Affairs."
Are you a student?

1372
01:02:12,093 --> 01:02:14,186
Who knows? Maybe someday
you'll be applying here

1373
01:02:14,295 --> 01:02:15,421
to the Faculty of Medicine.

1374
01:02:15,530 --> 01:02:18,226
Does this look exciting?
We're gonna do an interview.

1375
01:02:18,332 --> 01:02:20,766
Even though things started tragically,

1376
01:02:20,868 --> 01:02:25,168
you know, he's the blessing
Andrew left behind.

1377
01:02:25,273 --> 01:02:27,332
I parked the van two blocks away

1378
01:02:27,441 --> 01:02:28,669
'cause it was
the only vehicle for miles

1379
01:02:28,776 --> 01:02:29,674
with California plates

1380
01:02:29,777 --> 01:02:31,768
and would give away to Shirley
that I was in town.

1381
01:02:31,879 --> 01:02:33,403
- Sort of a stealth van, you see.
- Exactly.

1382
01:02:33,514 --> 01:02:34,640
If she knew, I was afraid

1383
01:02:34,749 --> 01:02:35,807
she would find excuses to withhold you

1384
01:02:35,917 --> 01:02:37,646
so that I couldn't see you.

1385
01:02:37,752 --> 01:02:39,879
Every time the doorbell rang,
I hid in the back bedroom,

1386
01:02:39,987 --> 01:02:41,750
as it could have been her
just dropping by unannounced.

1387
01:02:41,856 --> 01:02:43,517
Hi, David. Hi, Kate.
This is Shirley.

1388
01:02:43,624 --> 01:02:44,818
On the days we didn't have you,

1389
01:02:44,926 --> 01:02:46,757
I discovered your dad's
medical-school world,

1390
01:02:46,861 --> 01:02:49,762
met his classmates, found
more footage of him for you.

1391
01:02:49,864 --> 01:02:54,324
And, finally,
I found myself face-to-face

1392
01:02:54,435 --> 01:02:55,902
with the thing that had set me
on this journey

1393
01:02:56,003 --> 01:02:57,095
in the first place.

1394
01:02:57,204 --> 01:02:59,798
One of the major things
that Andrew and I did together,

1395
01:02:59,907 --> 01:03:03,308
or that we had in common,
was photography.

1396
01:03:03,411 --> 01:03:06,073
Sometimes we'd bring the cameras out

1397
01:03:06,180 --> 01:03:08,774
and go around the lake and by the pond,

1398
01:03:08,883 --> 01:03:10,373
and take some pictures around there.

1399
01:03:10,484 --> 01:03:12,008
I told Andrew, I said,
"Listen, you're gonna have to

1400
01:03:12,119 --> 01:03:14,212
show me a few tricks or whatever

1401
01:03:14,322 --> 01:03:15,550
and show me some of your pictures."

1402
01:03:15,656 --> 01:03:17,851
I'd still love to see
some of the pictures

1403
01:03:17,959 --> 01:03:19,085
that he took through medical school.

1404
01:03:19,193 --> 01:03:20,285
I've never seen any of them.

1405
01:03:41,315 --> 01:03:43,977
Him and his dad had done quite
a bit of photography together.

1406
01:03:44,085 --> 01:03:46,883
Right after this happened,
I fired out an e-mail

1407
01:03:46,988 --> 01:03:50,151
saying we should try to think
of some sort of memorial award.

1408
01:03:50,257 --> 01:03:52,487
And I felt like
that would be something also

1409
01:03:52,593 --> 01:03:55,153
that his dad would really feel
honored by.

1410
01:03:55,262 --> 01:03:57,696
And then have a wall
in the medical school.

1411
01:03:57,798 --> 01:04:00,164
To be able to say
year after year, you know,

1412
01:04:00,267 --> 01:04:02,167
these are the winners,
and people could look

1413
01:04:02,269 --> 01:04:04,066
and be like,
"Wow," you know, "look at this."

1414
01:04:04,171 --> 01:04:05,502
I think I have a meeting
tomorrow morning

1415
01:04:05,606 --> 01:04:07,130
to participate in the judging tomorrow.

1416
01:04:07,241 --> 01:04:08,572
And I find it interesting

1417
01:04:08,676 --> 01:04:10,940
that you say
that you hadn't heard that.

1418
01:04:11,045 --> 01:04:12,069
I wonder if part of it

1419
01:04:12,179 --> 01:04:14,875
was eventually maybe have
his dad independently say,

1420
01:04:14,982 --> 01:04:16,472
"Oh, who took this picture?

1421
01:04:16,584 --> 01:04:18,142
It's a really nice picture."

1422
01:04:18,252 --> 01:04:19,617
And have him say, "Oh, me!"

1423
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:20,948
I don't know.

1424
01:04:21,055 --> 01:04:22,545
But it's something he did.

1425
01:04:23,891 --> 01:04:27,291
On July 18, 2003,
you turned one.

1426
01:04:31,399 --> 01:04:33,390
Shirley decided to hold
a birthday party for you

1427
01:04:33,501 --> 01:04:34,399
at McDonald's.

1428
01:04:34,502 --> 01:04:36,470
She started to open presents.

1429
01:04:36,570 --> 01:04:37,764
Well, he wasn't interested in presents.

1430
01:04:37,872 --> 01:04:39,237
He wanted to get down.

1431
01:04:39,340 --> 01:04:42,798
So, when he got down,
he made for me.

1432
01:04:42,910 --> 01:04:45,845
Shirley was very, very angry.

1433
01:04:45,946 --> 01:04:48,471
So she said,
"He loves you more than me.

1434
01:04:48,582 --> 01:04:50,049
Why don't you take him?"

1435
01:04:59,994 --> 01:05:03,486
Zachary always,
from the time he could choose,

1436
01:05:03,597 --> 01:05:06,088
would choose Kate over her.

1437
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,727
That was obvious, and
other people talked about it.

1438
01:05:09,837 --> 01:05:12,772
Kate is a warm and loving mother.

1439
01:05:12,873 --> 01:05:15,171
She was a phony mother.

1440
01:05:15,276 --> 01:05:16,573
I love you.

1441
01:05:16,677 --> 01:05:18,372
Mommy loves you.
Yes, I do.

1442
01:05:18,479 --> 01:05:21,073
She knew the motions,
but there's no warmth in it.

1443
01:05:21,182 --> 01:05:22,809
Zachary.
I love you, baby.

1444
01:05:22,917 --> 01:05:24,316
Mommy loves you.
Mommy loves you.

1445
01:05:24,418 --> 01:05:25,942
She said that she had kids

1446
01:05:26,053 --> 01:05:28,021
and that she wasn't interested
in living with them either.

1447
01:05:28,122 --> 01:05:29,214
Andrew said she kind of
went off to medical school

1448
01:05:29,323 --> 01:05:30,221
and left them.

1449
01:05:30,324 --> 01:05:32,053
And she said that they lived
with their fathers,

1450
01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:33,751
and she said that children
were more trouble

1451
01:05:33,861 --> 01:05:35,158
than they were worth.

1452
01:05:35,262 --> 01:05:36,889
I believe she's using
her own children now

1453
01:05:36,997 --> 01:05:38,897
to manipulate the system

1454
01:05:38,999 --> 01:05:41,297
and to make Kate and David suffer,

1455
01:05:41,402 --> 01:05:43,336
even if she goes to jail.

1456
01:05:43,437 --> 01:05:44,904
Fortunately,
there are enough people here

1457
01:05:45,005 --> 01:05:48,099
who are in the system,
the justice system,

1458
01:05:48,209 --> 01:05:49,699
the child-protection system,

1459
01:05:49,810 --> 01:05:51,277
that I know personally

1460
01:05:51,378 --> 01:05:54,939
who have told me
that that will not happen.

1461
01:05:55,049 --> 01:05:56,914
The next hearing
in the extradition process

1462
01:05:57,017 --> 01:05:58,450
was set for September 25th,

1463
01:05:58,552 --> 01:06:00,076
your dad's 30th birthday,

1464
01:06:00,187 --> 01:06:01,984
where she would likely be
re-incarcerated

1465
01:06:02,089 --> 01:06:04,080
and at last returned to the U.S.
for trial.

1466
01:06:04,191 --> 01:06:07,558
But, for now, it was time for me
to go home.

1467
01:06:07,661 --> 01:06:09,891
- I have to say bye-bye now.
- Gonna say "bye-bye"?

1468
01:06:09,997 --> 01:06:11,225
Bye-bye to Uncle Kurt?

1469
01:06:11,332 --> 01:06:12,629
You gonna give him a hug?

1470
01:06:12,733 --> 01:06:14,894
- Can I have a hug?
- Grab him and take it.

1471
01:06:17,872 --> 01:06:19,703
Was that funny?
Was that funny?

1472
01:06:19,807 --> 01:06:21,900
Bye-bye, sweet pea.

1473
01:06:22,009 --> 01:06:23,442
I'll see you later, buddy.

1474
01:06:23,544 --> 01:06:25,739
Well, you'll be a little bigger
next time I see you.

1475
01:06:25,846 --> 01:06:27,711
He had just completed
the child health checks

1476
01:06:27,815 --> 01:06:28,713
that they do.

1477
01:06:28,816 --> 01:06:30,579
He's ahead of his time.
He's doing great.

1478
01:06:30,684 --> 01:06:32,117
He's up to par on everything,

1479
01:06:32,219 --> 01:06:34,278
but he doesn't like to wave goodbye.

1480
01:06:34,388 --> 01:06:36,583
- Bye-bye!
- Bye-bye!

1481
01:06:36,690 --> 01:06:39,215
One of them said, "That's fine,

1482
01:06:39,326 --> 01:06:41,294
'cause he's got lots of time
to learn that."

1483
01:06:41,395 --> 01:06:42,919
Is there anything you'd like
to say to Zachary?

1484
01:06:43,030 --> 01:06:44,622
I'm hoping I'm gonna have
all the opportunity

1485
01:06:44,732 --> 01:06:46,131
to say those things to Zachary.

1486
01:06:49,937 --> 01:06:52,167
We had been out.
We came back here.

1487
01:06:52,273 --> 01:06:56,972
There was a little card
in the door from Constable Walsh

1488
01:06:57,077 --> 01:06:59,170
saying, "Would we contact him?"

1489
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:00,611
- I was here.
- Mark and I were here.

1490
01:07:00,714 --> 01:07:01,544
I was at my house.

1491
01:07:01,649 --> 01:07:04,880
I was home watching the 6:00 NTV news.

1492
01:07:04,985 --> 01:07:08,352
And the next thing, I saw a
picture of Shirley and Zachary

1493
01:07:08,455 --> 01:07:11,151
and saying that they were missing.

1494
01:07:11,258 --> 01:07:13,522
And I was just screaming
at the top of my lungs.

1495
01:07:13,627 --> 01:07:15,219
And I immediately fell to the floor.

1496
01:07:15,329 --> 01:07:17,126
So I immediately went over
to their apartment.

1497
01:07:17,231 --> 01:07:18,255
We came here.

1498
01:07:18,365 --> 01:07:20,026
So we got in the car
and went over there.

1499
01:07:20,134 --> 01:07:22,364
- Our vicar came by.
- I'll never forget that moment.

1500
01:07:22,469 --> 01:07:23,663
They're gonna find them.
They're gonna be okay.

1501
01:07:23,771 --> 01:07:25,238
You're overreacting.
You're gonna think the worst.

1502
01:07:25,339 --> 01:07:27,000
Look, you know,
she's probably gone for a night.

1503
01:07:27,107 --> 01:07:28,699
My first thought was that she had left.

1504
01:07:28,809 --> 01:07:30,037
She had taken him and run.

1505
01:07:30,144 --> 01:07:32,078
She couldn't do that.
She couldn't possibly do that.

1506
01:07:32,179 --> 01:07:33,874
That was about 2 or 3 hours
of uncertainty.

1507
01:07:33,981 --> 01:07:35,642
The emotion was overwhelming.

1508
01:07:39,820 --> 01:07:41,651
They called us and told us
they were doing a search

1509
01:07:41,755 --> 01:07:43,723
of the beach
out in Conception Bay South.

1510
01:07:43,824 --> 01:07:45,382
I thought, "They're doing that
for a reason."

1511
01:07:45,492 --> 01:07:46,390
I had received a call.

1512
01:07:46,493 --> 01:07:48,984
"We're having a press conference
on the Turner case."

1513
01:07:49,096 --> 01:07:50,825
I went to Father Chris,
I just whispered to him,

1514
01:07:50,931 --> 01:07:51,920
"I think you better stay,

1515
01:07:52,032 --> 01:07:53,431
because I think I'm gonna be
coming back here

1516
01:07:53,534 --> 01:07:54,831
with some really bad news."

1517
01:07:54,935 --> 01:07:57,699
He told me that they had found a baby.

1518
01:07:57,805 --> 01:07:59,739
Along with an adult.

1519
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:01,068
I knew then that there was two bodies.

1520
01:08:01,175 --> 01:08:03,040
"They're working
to identify the bodies."

1521
01:08:03,143 --> 01:08:04,337
I said,
"You got to come pick me up."

1522
01:08:04,445 --> 01:08:07,346
We came to the door, and it was
Jackie and Constable Walsh.

1523
01:08:07,448 --> 01:08:08,676
I thought, "Oh, my gosh,

1524
01:08:08,782 --> 01:08:10,841
somebody's with them now
trying to tell them."

1525
01:08:10,951 --> 01:08:12,578
We went in, and I told them.

1526
01:08:14,521 --> 01:08:16,853
And what I saw after that

1527
01:08:16,957 --> 01:08:18,390
I will never forget in my life.

1528
01:08:25,733 --> 01:08:27,598
Rage.
Absolute vicious rage.

1529
01:08:27,701 --> 01:08:28,963
Someone has done that
to someone you love.

1530
01:08:29,069 --> 01:08:31,367
If the person who did this
had been here, I'd kill them.

1531
01:08:34,174 --> 01:08:35,334
Period.
No questions. Kill them!

1532
01:08:35,442 --> 01:08:37,410
Strangle that fucking bitch
right here, right now!

1533
01:08:37,511 --> 01:08:39,138
Period.
No questions. Kill them!

1534
01:08:47,288 --> 01:08:49,756
And then we went to
have to identify him,

1535
01:08:49,857 --> 01:08:51,484
and we couldn't touch him

1536
01:08:51,592 --> 01:08:54,060
because they said he was forensic.

1537
01:08:54,161 --> 01:08:56,686
He hadn't been through the autopsy yet.

1538
01:08:56,797 --> 01:09:00,756
There's this table and sort of
white sheets up all around him.

1539
01:09:00,868 --> 01:09:02,597
With a white sheet over a body.

1540
01:09:02,703 --> 01:09:04,796
You could see over the sheets,
clearly, it was him.

1541
01:09:04,905 --> 01:09:07,499
It's really him.

1542
01:09:10,277 --> 01:09:12,245
And then Kate's legs quit.

1543
01:09:12,346 --> 01:09:14,177
She just went straight to the floor.

1544
01:09:14,281 --> 01:09:17,580
David was lying on top of Kate
on the floor.

1545
01:09:17,685 --> 01:09:20,518
We managed to get them out. I
don't know how we did it, Kurt.

1546
01:09:20,621 --> 01:09:23,385
I don't know how I got out myself.

1547
01:09:23,490 --> 01:09:26,584
That poor little baby.

1548
01:09:26,694 --> 01:09:30,095
A summary of the evidence
against Shirley Turner.

1549
01:09:30,197 --> 01:09:31,061
Part Two.

1550
01:09:31,165 --> 01:09:33,963
In July of 2003,
Shirley met a man at a bar

1551
01:09:34,068 --> 01:09:35,228
in downtown St. John's.

1552
01:09:35,336 --> 01:09:36,268
They went out twice

1553
01:09:36,370 --> 01:09:37,564
until his friends showed him
articles on the Web

1554
01:09:37,671 --> 01:09:40,299
saying she was accused
of killing her last boyfriend.

1555
01:09:40,407 --> 01:09:42,204
He told her he didn't
want to see her anymore.

1556
01:09:42,309 --> 01:09:44,869
She then called and left over
200 messages on his phone,

1557
01:09:44,979 --> 01:09:46,503
including one saying
that she was pregnant

1558
01:09:46,613 --> 01:09:47,739
and that he needed to...

1559
01:09:47,848 --> 01:09:49,679
Step up to the plate
and be a fucking man.

1560
01:09:49,783 --> 01:09:51,444
She wasn't,
as her autopsy showed.

1561
01:09:51,552 --> 01:09:52,450
The night she killed you,

1562
01:09:52,553 --> 01:09:54,384
she made a phony phone call
from her apartment

1563
01:09:54,488 --> 01:09:55,648
to a friend's answering machine,

1564
01:09:55,756 --> 01:09:57,417
claiming to be
at this man's house with you.

1565
01:09:57,524 --> 01:10:00,220
She took your brother T.J.'s car
at about 11:38 that night

1566
01:10:00,327 --> 01:10:01,658
and drove to the man's house.

1567
01:10:01,762 --> 01:10:02,990
She got lost along the way

1568
01:10:03,097 --> 01:10:05,224
and asked a woman for directions
along this road

1569
01:10:05,332 --> 01:10:06,594
around 12:45 a.m.

1570
01:10:06,700 --> 01:10:08,190
She parked behind his house,

1571
01:10:08,302 --> 01:10:10,600
left a used tampon and photos of
the two of you on his property,

1572
01:10:10,704 --> 01:10:12,331
completing her attempt
to frame this man

1573
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:13,497
for what she was about to do,

1574
01:10:13,607 --> 01:10:15,939
then took you down to the ocean
behind his home.

1575
01:10:16,043 --> 01:10:17,203
A night watchman in the area

1576
01:10:17,311 --> 01:10:18,744
thought he heard a baby crying
in the distance

1577
01:10:18,846 --> 01:10:20,108
around 2:30 a.m.

1578
01:10:20,214 --> 01:10:21,579
Shirley took her prescription
for Ativan,

1579
01:10:21,682 --> 01:10:23,980
prescribed for her
by psychiatrist John Doucet,

1580
01:10:24,084 --> 01:10:26,450
mixed it into your formula,
then took some herself.

1581
01:10:26,553 --> 01:10:28,077
The only good thing we know about this

1582
01:10:28,188 --> 01:10:30,520
is that you were not conscious
and you did not suffer.

1583
01:10:30,624 --> 01:10:31,750
She then...

1584
01:10:31,859 --> 01:10:33,190
She then walked to the edge of a pier

1585
01:10:33,293 --> 01:10:35,625
and with you strapped
to her stomach with a sweater,

1586
01:10:35,729 --> 01:10:37,094
she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean.

1587
01:10:39,333 --> 01:10:41,301
Mommy loves you.

1588
01:10:41,402 --> 01:10:42,630
Yes, I do.

1589
01:10:42,736 --> 01:10:43,998
Mommy loves you.

1590
01:10:44,104 --> 01:10:46,629
Did you have a nice nap?
What did you dream about?

1591
01:10:46,740 --> 01:10:48,503
Mommy loves you.

1592
01:10:48,609 --> 01:10:50,975
Mommy misses you.

1593
01:10:55,549 --> 01:10:59,110
He was found face upward
with his eyes wide open.

1594
01:10:59,219 --> 01:11:01,915
And the policeman who found him

1595
01:11:02,022 --> 01:11:04,855
said that he had wrapped him
in a blanket

1596
01:11:04,958 --> 01:11:06,323
rather than a plastic bag,

1597
01:11:06,427 --> 01:11:10,761
and he and another officer
carried him gently back.

1598
01:11:10,864 --> 01:11:14,197
And he made very sure that
he kept the body very far away

1599
01:11:14,301 --> 01:11:15,962
from the wicked woman
who had murdered him.

1600
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:19,267
When I sit here,
I hate her so much.

1601
01:11:22,709 --> 01:11:24,040
When we came here,

1602
01:11:24,144 --> 01:11:26,772
David and I realized
what Shirley Turner was.

1603
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:28,313
She was the devil.

1604
01:11:28,415 --> 01:11:32,579
But people think that you're
some kind of basic religious nut

1605
01:11:32,686 --> 01:11:33,948
if you believe in the devil.

1606
01:11:34,054 --> 01:11:36,079
I haven't prayed
since Zachary died. I haven't.

1607
01:11:36,190 --> 01:11:38,090
I have some issues I have to deal with.

1608
01:11:38,192 --> 01:11:40,183
You know, my faith
has been tested by this.

1609
01:11:42,262 --> 01:11:44,457
Was a beautiful service.

1610
01:11:44,565 --> 01:11:46,533
A real tribute to the little boy.

1611
01:11:46,633 --> 01:11:49,431
Oh, I don't know how many people
were here, probably 300 or 400.

1612
01:11:49,536 --> 01:11:51,026
Maybe more.
I don't recall.

1613
01:11:51,138 --> 01:11:55,165
I've never seen a coffin
so small before.

1614
01:11:57,578 --> 01:11:59,671
They shouldn't have them that size.

1615
01:12:01,482 --> 01:12:02,380
He was in his little suit

1616
01:12:02,483 --> 01:12:06,214
that he'd had
the pictures taken in, I think.

1617
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:07,252
What went in it?

1618
01:12:07,354 --> 01:12:09,083
What went in it?
His little ball.

1619
01:12:09,189 --> 01:12:12,818
And I don't remember
if she put a truck in.

1620
01:12:12,926 --> 01:12:17,727
Lots of kisses and hugs
and tears went in it.

1621
01:12:22,336 --> 01:12:24,600
Lots of hopes and dreams.

1622
01:12:29,543 --> 01:12:31,033
Your grandma and grandpa
went back to England

1623
01:12:31,145 --> 01:12:33,807
and spread your ashes with your dad's.

1624
01:12:33,914 --> 01:12:35,142
They went back to St. Louis

1625
01:12:35,249 --> 01:12:37,877
and spread your ashes with your dad's.

1626
01:12:37,985 --> 01:12:40,715
And I didn't go with him.

1627
01:12:40,821 --> 01:12:41,719
Andrew wanted to be cremated.

1628
01:12:41,822 --> 01:12:43,687
Oh, yes.
Yes.

1629
01:12:43,790 --> 01:12:44,722
What bothers Kate

1630
01:12:44,825 --> 01:12:47,316
is that she did not go with him
to the crematorium

1631
01:12:47,427 --> 01:12:48,951
and stay with him right to the end.

1632
01:12:49,062 --> 01:12:52,429
He went from the funeral home
to the crematorium all alone.

1633
01:12:52,533 --> 01:12:55,366
In plastic bags.

1634
01:12:57,271 --> 01:13:00,001
With only his head sticking out!

1635
01:13:01,542 --> 01:13:03,976
Come on, Kate.

1636
01:13:05,679 --> 01:13:08,648
He wouldn't care about that.

1637
01:13:12,152 --> 01:13:17,112
That's why we went right up
to the oven doors with Zachary.

1638
01:13:25,465 --> 01:13:28,400
This is what
that fucking bitch didn't know!

1639
01:13:28,502 --> 01:13:30,094
Or maybe she did know.

1640
01:13:30,204 --> 01:13:32,536
This is what she's leaving.

1641
01:13:36,710 --> 01:13:38,735
Maybe she did know.

1642
01:13:38,845 --> 01:13:40,506
If she thought about it at all,

1643
01:13:40,614 --> 01:13:43,879
she didn't give a good goddamn!

1644
01:13:45,018 --> 01:13:47,987
And this is what I hate her for.

1645
01:13:49,556 --> 01:13:51,353
I hate her for a lot of things.

1646
01:13:51,458 --> 01:13:53,221
Stealing the rest of Andrew's life

1647
01:13:53,327 --> 01:13:54,919
and virtually all of Zachary's life

1648
01:13:55,028 --> 01:13:57,121
and then this.

1649
01:13:57,231 --> 01:13:59,699
Leaving us like this.

1650
01:14:01,335 --> 01:14:04,129
A couple of times,
lying in there in bed at night,

1651
01:14:04,238 --> 01:14:08,698
I considered fixing the problem myself.

1652
01:14:08,809 --> 01:14:10,674
Pick a night when Kate took
a sleeping pill,

1653
01:14:10,777 --> 01:14:14,076
so she wouldn't know I was up.

1654
01:14:14,181 --> 01:14:15,773
Get up in the middle of the night.

1655
01:14:15,882 --> 01:14:17,144
Dream up a pretext.

1656
01:14:17,251 --> 01:14:19,515
Go kill Shirley and come back
and go back to bed,

1657
01:14:19,620 --> 01:14:21,247
so Kate would not know.

1658
01:14:21,355 --> 01:14:25,451
That way, number one,
she could not harm Zachary.

1659
01:14:25,559 --> 01:14:29,222
And number two, even if
they did catch me at it,

1660
01:14:29,329 --> 01:14:31,490
I'm the first one they come
looking for, of course,

1661
01:14:31,598 --> 01:14:33,122
but Kate could truthfully say

1662
01:14:33,233 --> 01:14:34,427
she didn't know that I was doing it,

1663
01:14:34,534 --> 01:14:37,731
so she might still
get to bring up Zachary

1664
01:14:37,838 --> 01:14:40,568
and get him started, even
if I go to prison in Canada.

1665
01:14:40,674 --> 01:14:44,269
We've worked through
possibilities ad nauseam.

1666
01:14:44,378 --> 01:14:45,868
Suppose we grab Zachary and run.

1667
01:14:45,979 --> 01:14:48,607
Number one, we got to get
off the island of Newfoundland.

1668
01:14:48,715 --> 01:14:51,684
The big drawback against living
here is getting out of here.

1669
01:14:51,785 --> 01:14:53,343
There's only three ways to do that.

1670
01:14:53,453 --> 01:14:54,784
Ferry, boat, airplane.

1671
01:14:54,888 --> 01:14:57,550
The airplane and the ferry
would be covered

1672
01:14:57,658 --> 01:14:58,955
as soon as Zachary's missing.

1673
01:14:59,059 --> 01:15:01,357
We'd have to hire a boat somehow,

1674
01:15:01,461 --> 01:15:02,985
which means you take in a third party

1675
01:15:03,096 --> 01:15:05,394
to the crime of kidnapping.
We can't go home.

1676
01:15:05,499 --> 01:15:09,333
We cannot ever identify
ourselves as ourselves.

1677
01:15:09,436 --> 01:15:12,371
Have cash only stashed
all around the country.

1678
01:15:12,472 --> 01:15:16,067
Zachary would never be allowed
to know his family, our friends.

1679
01:15:16,176 --> 01:15:18,110
So that path...

1680
01:15:18,211 --> 01:15:21,738
big, big, big, big risk
with a horrible life.

1681
01:15:21,848 --> 01:15:22,746
So that's out.

1682
01:15:22,849 --> 01:15:25,317
Legal approaches we might
have taken. Invent something.

1683
01:15:25,419 --> 01:15:28,582
File affidavit saying
Shirley slipped one night

1684
01:15:28,689 --> 01:15:29,883
when we were around

1685
01:15:29,990 --> 01:15:33,653
and said a threat of some kind
that might get her incarcerated.

1686
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:36,320
But that would just be
our word against hers.

1687
01:15:36,430 --> 01:15:40,332
The best shot we had
at keeping Zachary alive

1688
01:15:40,434 --> 01:15:43,494
was I kill her myself.

1689
01:15:43,603 --> 01:15:47,471
Other than doing that,
I can think of no other way

1690
01:15:47,574 --> 01:15:50,042
to save Zachary from that bitch.

1691
01:15:56,883 --> 01:15:58,680
There's a logic in it.

1692
01:15:58,785 --> 01:16:00,275
But I didn't do it.

1693
01:16:00,387 --> 01:16:02,719
'Cause I trusted government
to do its job.

1694
01:16:02,823 --> 01:16:04,415
Government is supposed to stop that

1695
01:16:04,524 --> 01:16:05,718
so I don't have to do it personally.

1696
01:16:05,826 --> 01:16:07,919
In this case, they didn't even
get her off the street

1697
01:16:08,028 --> 01:16:09,586
and they even gave her a baby
to look after.

1698
01:16:09,696 --> 01:16:12,494
My understanding is that
proper protocols were followed.

1699
01:16:12,599 --> 01:16:15,568
I have asked my officials to,
did ask them some time ago,

1700
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:18,604
to follow up with the board
to see, in fact,

1701
01:16:18,705 --> 01:16:22,106
that all the proper protocols
had been adhered to.

1702
01:16:22,209 --> 01:16:24,200
They were gambling Zachary's life.

1703
01:16:24,311 --> 01:16:25,335
They were gambling the lives

1704
01:16:25,445 --> 01:16:27,470
of anyone in the general population

1705
01:16:27,581 --> 01:16:29,071
that Shirley came in contact with.

1706
01:16:29,182 --> 01:16:32,310
We, the vast majority of good people

1707
01:16:32,419 --> 01:16:34,046
who don't kill people,
are stuck.

1708
01:16:34,154 --> 01:16:35,485
We got nowhere to go.

1709
01:16:35,589 --> 01:16:37,181
We figured we'd hold a press conference

1710
01:16:37,290 --> 01:16:40,555
and try to push for changes in law.

1711
01:16:40,660 --> 01:16:43,026
The morning that we had
scheduled the press conference,

1712
01:16:43,130 --> 01:16:44,256
I was in the shower.

1713
01:16:44,364 --> 01:16:46,559
Kate came in with the phone.
"It's Jackie.

1714
01:16:46,666 --> 01:16:48,634
She says we can't hold
the press conference."

1715
01:16:48,735 --> 01:16:52,762
Technically, there's still
a press ban in place.

1716
01:16:52,873 --> 01:16:53,897
I said, "Fuck them.
Fuck them!

1717
01:16:54,007 --> 01:16:56,339
If they want to lock me up for talking

1718
01:16:56,443 --> 01:16:58,468
while they let murderers walk
around free, just..."

1719
01:16:58,578 --> 01:17:00,239
We believe that Shirley Turner

1720
01:17:00,347 --> 01:17:03,248
bears 100% of the responsibility

1721
01:17:03,350 --> 01:17:05,215
for the murder of our son,
Andrew.

1722
01:17:05,318 --> 01:17:07,081
We believe that the legal system

1723
01:17:07,187 --> 01:17:09,849
helped her to kill our grandson,
Zachary.

1724
01:17:09,956 --> 01:17:13,255
When Shirley Turner was formally
charged and escaped to Canada,

1725
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,124
we naively thought she would be
sent back to Pennsylvania

1726
01:17:16,229 --> 01:17:17,924
within a few weeks at the most.

1727
01:17:18,031 --> 01:17:19,965
When we learned
that she was out on bail,

1728
01:17:20,066 --> 01:17:22,227
under an order
from Justice David Russell,

1729
01:17:22,335 --> 01:17:23,700
we were numb.

1730
01:17:23,804 --> 01:17:24,702
Numb!

1731
01:17:24,805 --> 01:17:26,636
Good afternoon.
Judge Russell's office.

1732
01:17:26,740 --> 01:17:28,071
I'm a documentary filmmaker,

1733
01:17:28,175 --> 01:17:30,336
and I'm doing a documentary
about the Zachary Turner case.

1734
01:17:30,444 --> 01:17:32,241
I think all he might have done one time

1735
01:17:32,345 --> 01:17:33,835
was probably a bail review.

1736
01:17:33,947 --> 01:17:35,039
Is that what you're calling about?

1737
01:17:35,148 --> 01:17:36,911
Yeah, it was December 12, 2001,
actually. Yeah.

1738
01:17:37,017 --> 01:17:37,915
Okay.

1739
01:17:38,018 --> 01:17:40,680
Judge Russell is sorry, but he
won't be able to be interviewed

1740
01:17:40,787 --> 01:17:42,084
in connection with that matter.

1741
01:17:42,189 --> 01:17:43,383
Crown Prosecutor Mike Madden

1742
01:17:43,490 --> 01:17:45,788
didn't even argue against
her release on bail that day

1743
01:17:45,892 --> 01:17:47,223
and instead entered the courtroom

1744
01:17:47,327 --> 01:17:48,885
with an agreement already
in place for her release.

1745
01:17:48,995 --> 01:17:49,893
Mike Madden speaking.

1746
01:17:49,996 --> 01:17:53,659
I'm a documentary filmmaker.
I was a friend of Andrew Bagby.

1747
01:17:53,767 --> 01:17:55,291
Wondering if you would be interested

1748
01:17:55,402 --> 01:17:56,528
in possibly being interviewed for...

1749
01:17:56,636 --> 01:17:57,967
No, I don't think so.

1750
01:17:58,071 --> 01:17:59,265
Not one penny of her bail sureties

1751
01:17:59,372 --> 01:18:01,237
had to be paid by anyone who signed,

1752
01:18:01,341 --> 01:18:03,400
nor did they have to show
proof of ability to pay.

1753
01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:05,535
No money's put up.
No money at all. It's useless.

1754
01:18:05,645 --> 01:18:07,545
They could have put 20 cents
or $20 million.

1755
01:18:07,647 --> 01:18:08,909
Wouldn't have made any difference.

1756
01:18:09,015 --> 01:18:10,209
Her psychiatrist put up the $65,000,

1757
01:18:10,317 --> 01:18:11,784
and that's another issue altogether.

1758
01:18:11,885 --> 01:18:14,046
Hi. You've reached Dr. Doucet's office.

1759
01:18:14,154 --> 01:18:15,883
Please leave your name,
telephone number,

1760
01:18:15,989 --> 01:18:16,956
and a brief message.

1761
01:18:17,057 --> 01:18:19,025
Hi.
I'm calling for Dr. Doucet.

1762
01:18:19,125 --> 01:18:20,387
My call was not returned.

1763
01:18:20,494 --> 01:18:22,121
Time. We thought it was all about time.

1764
01:18:22,229 --> 01:18:24,754
Each step in the extradition process,

1765
01:18:24,865 --> 01:18:26,457
each incomprehensible delay,

1766
01:18:26,566 --> 01:18:29,091
four weeks, six weeks,
over and over again,

1767
01:18:29,202 --> 01:18:30,794
there was another knife in our guts.

1768
01:18:30,904 --> 01:18:33,805
"The law is slow," they told us,
and it was!

1769
01:18:33,907 --> 01:18:36,467
Our lawyer Jackie
went to see Betty Day,

1770
01:18:36,576 --> 01:18:38,874
an administrator somewhere
in the hierarchy

1771
01:18:38,979 --> 01:18:40,241
of Child Protective Services,

1772
01:18:40,347 --> 01:18:43,714
and told her that we are concerned

1773
01:18:43,817 --> 01:18:45,216
about the safety of the baby

1774
01:18:45,318 --> 01:18:48,913
because the mother is accused
of a pre-meditated murder.

1775
01:18:49,022 --> 01:18:52,014
And nothing happened.

1776
01:18:52,125 --> 01:18:53,990
Hello. Department of Health
and Community Services.

1777
01:18:54,094 --> 01:18:56,153
Hi. I'm trying to reach Elizabeth Day.

1778
01:18:56,263 --> 01:18:58,823
Elizabeth Day is not available.

1779
01:18:58,932 --> 01:19:01,696
At the tone,
please record your message.

1780
01:19:01,801 --> 01:19:02,859
My call was not returned.

1781
01:19:02,969 --> 01:19:05,028
If you were
in the Family Health Services,

1782
01:19:05,138 --> 01:19:07,834
wouldn't you want to know
who this accused murderer

1783
01:19:07,941 --> 01:19:09,875
was arranging
for her baby to stay with?

1784
01:19:09,976 --> 01:19:11,375
Nobody ever came to see us.

1785
01:19:11,478 --> 01:19:12,968
Before we left Sunnyvale,

1786
01:19:13,079 --> 01:19:14,671
we got a police report
to say that we were good people.

1787
01:19:14,781 --> 01:19:17,682
Our friends and my employer,
et cetera, write letters

1788
01:19:17,784 --> 01:19:20,947
that we were upright members
of the community.

1789
01:19:21,054 --> 01:19:22,453
Nobody asked us for that.

1790
01:19:22,556 --> 01:19:25,616
We could have been convicted
child molesters in California.

1791
01:19:25,725 --> 01:19:27,818
- They didn't care.
- And nobody would've known.

1792
01:19:27,928 --> 01:19:29,555
She wrote directly
to Judge Derek Green,

1793
01:19:29,663 --> 01:19:30,925
who responded through his secretary

1794
01:19:31,031 --> 01:19:32,623
with instructions
on how to write her own appeal

1795
01:19:32,732 --> 01:19:34,199
of his decision to incarcerate her.

1796
01:19:34,301 --> 01:19:35,495
- Mr. Kuenne?
- Yes?

1797
01:19:35,602 --> 01:19:37,229
Yeah,
this is Chief Justice Green.

1798
01:19:37,337 --> 01:19:41,103
What I did is on the record
and will speak for itself.

1799
01:19:41,207 --> 01:19:42,174
Okay.
Okay.

1800
01:19:42,275 --> 01:19:44,573
Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh,

1801
01:19:44,678 --> 01:19:48,136
Shirley Turner
was released on bail again,

1802
01:19:48,248 --> 01:19:50,216
and we went numb again.

1803
01:19:50,317 --> 01:19:52,012
And we had to give Zachary

1804
01:19:52,118 --> 01:19:54,382
right back into the hands
of Andrew's killer!

1805
01:19:54,487 --> 01:19:56,478
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

1806
01:19:56,590 --> 01:19:57,488
that would give concern

1807
01:19:57,591 --> 01:19:59,183
about potential harm
to the public generally."

1808
01:19:59,292 --> 01:20:01,988
Shirley's last boyfriend before
Andrew told Pennsylvania police

1809
01:20:02,095 --> 01:20:04,256
that Shirley attempted suicide
on his front doorstep

1810
01:20:04,364 --> 01:20:06,264
after he broke up with her
and had threatened to kill him.

1811
01:20:06,366 --> 01:20:08,357
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

1812
01:20:08,468 --> 01:20:09,366
that would give concern

1813
01:20:09,469 --> 01:20:10,834
about potential harm
to the public generally."

1814
01:20:10,937 --> 01:20:12,598
Eight people had
restraining orders against her.

1815
01:20:12,706 --> 01:20:14,697
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

1816
01:20:14,808 --> 01:20:15,740
that would give concern

1817
01:20:15,842 --> 01:20:17,400
about potential harm
to the public generally."

1818
01:20:17,510 --> 01:20:18,704
If anyone had bothered to check
the jail records

1819
01:20:18,812 --> 01:20:20,279
during her two-month stay,

1820
01:20:20,380 --> 01:20:22,280
the prison psychiatrist put her
on suicide watch

1821
01:20:22,382 --> 01:20:23,280
every 15 minutes,

1822
01:20:23,383 --> 01:20:24,407
she was incredibly disruptive,

1823
01:20:24,517 --> 01:20:25,916
and even threatened to stab
another inmate with a fork.

1824
01:20:26,019 --> 01:20:28,010
"There is no indication
of a psychological disorder

1825
01:20:28,121 --> 01:20:29,315
that would give concern

1826
01:20:29,422 --> 01:20:31,151
about potential harm
to the public generally,

1827
01:20:31,257 --> 01:20:34,021
as her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

1828
01:20:34,127 --> 01:20:35,025
The man she was terrorizing

1829
01:20:35,128 --> 01:20:36,720
called the police and reported Shirley,

1830
01:20:36,830 --> 01:20:39,230
but because he didn't leave his
name, no one took any action.

1831
01:20:39,332 --> 01:20:41,823
"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

1832
01:20:41,935 --> 01:20:43,368
Andrew rejected her,
and she killed him.

1833
01:20:43,470 --> 01:20:46,200
Zachary rejected her.
He paid the price, too.

1834
01:20:46,306 --> 01:20:49,070
"Her crime, while violent,
was specific in nature."

1835
01:20:49,175 --> 01:20:50,506
Of course the crime was specific.

1836
01:20:50,610 --> 01:20:52,475
She didn't shoot
into a crowd of people.

1837
01:20:52,579 --> 01:20:54,672
We could not conceive
how they could let a probable

1838
01:20:54,781 --> 01:20:56,681
pre-meditated murderer...

1839
01:20:56,783 --> 01:21:01,243
probable pre-meditated murderer
walk the streets.

1840
01:21:01,354 --> 01:21:03,151
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

1841
01:21:03,256 --> 01:21:04,154
in the public interest."

1842
01:21:04,257 --> 01:21:05,417
Who the hell is the system protecting?

1843
01:21:05,525 --> 01:21:07,322
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

1844
01:21:07,427 --> 01:21:08,519
in the public interest."

1845
01:21:08,628 --> 01:21:10,755
We waited and we waited and we waited

1846
01:21:10,864 --> 01:21:15,494
for the authorities
to do their job and lock her up!

1847
01:21:15,602 --> 01:21:17,399
You got a dead body
with five holes in it,

1848
01:21:17,504 --> 01:21:18,801
and it means nothing!

1849
01:21:18,905 --> 01:21:21,100
Under an order from Justice Gale Welsh.

1850
01:21:21,207 --> 01:21:22,367
Good afternoon.
Court of Appeal.

1851
01:21:22,475 --> 01:21:23,908
Hi. May I speak to Judge Welsh,
please?

1852
01:21:24,010 --> 01:21:26,308
- Is she expecting your call?
- Probably not, no.

1853
01:21:26,413 --> 01:21:27,812
And now we've got a second dead body

1854
01:21:27,914 --> 01:21:29,176
that couldn't breathe through water.

1855
01:21:29,282 --> 01:21:30,909
I just spoke with Judge Welsh,
and she said no.

1856
01:21:31,017 --> 01:21:32,484
She said no, so I just
wanted to let you know.

1857
01:21:32,585 --> 01:21:34,143
"Dr. Turner's detention
is not necessary

1858
01:21:34,254 --> 01:21:35,221
in the public interest."

1859
01:21:36,556 --> 01:21:37,887
Son of a...
Son of a...

1860
01:21:52,238 --> 01:21:54,331
She had to be stopped.

1861
01:21:54,441 --> 01:21:56,966
The people who were supposed
to stop her didn't.

1862
01:21:57,077 --> 01:21:59,875
And she got to kill again.

1863
01:21:59,979 --> 01:22:01,708
And I'm gonna do my damnedest

1864
01:22:01,815 --> 01:22:05,080
to see if I can make them change
the way they deal with killers.

1865
01:22:05,185 --> 01:22:08,484
And with that, your grandma
and grandpa became activists.

1866
01:22:08,588 --> 01:22:09,953
We victims...

1867
01:22:10,056 --> 01:22:13,150
We want, number one,
the whole truth public

1868
01:22:13,259 --> 01:22:14,954
about why Zachary died.

1869
01:22:15,061 --> 01:22:17,291
They've developed a program,
a support group,

1870
01:22:17,397 --> 01:22:20,423
for people
who have had a death through,

1871
01:22:20,533 --> 01:22:21,557
you know, violent death.

1872
01:22:21,668 --> 01:22:25,627
Welcome to our first Victims
of Homicide annual vigil.

1873
01:22:25,739 --> 01:22:27,707
In this last year,
I've just taken training

1874
01:22:27,807 --> 01:22:32,403
to become a child advocate
in the dependency court system.

1875
01:22:32,512 --> 01:22:36,312
John Doucet, the psychiatrist
who posted $65,000 bail

1876
01:22:36,416 --> 01:22:37,314
for Ms. Turner,

1877
01:22:37,417 --> 01:22:39,977
was found guilty
of professional misconduct.

1878
01:22:40,086 --> 01:22:41,485
It was David Bagby and his wife

1879
01:22:41,588 --> 01:22:43,215
who launched the complaint
against Doucet.

1880
01:22:43,323 --> 01:22:45,416
The three-person panel ordered Doucet

1881
01:22:45,525 --> 01:22:47,584
to undergo psychiatric counseling.

1882
01:22:47,694 --> 01:22:49,719
There was a lot of sympathy
for David and Kate.

1883
01:22:49,829 --> 01:22:51,797
I think it got them at least a result

1884
01:22:51,898 --> 01:22:53,729
that they were hoping to accomplish.

1885
01:22:53,833 --> 01:22:54,731
Mr. Wicks,

1886
01:22:54,834 --> 01:22:56,529
Child and Youth Advocate
for Newfoundland and Labrador,

1887
01:22:56,636 --> 01:22:58,536
is doing a Child Death Review,

1888
01:22:58,638 --> 01:23:00,333
which is a formal investigation

1889
01:23:00,440 --> 01:23:02,908
and the output of it
is a report saying,

1890
01:23:03,009 --> 01:23:04,533
"Here's why that baby died."

1891
01:23:04,644 --> 01:23:06,271
And recommendations for changes

1892
01:23:06,379 --> 01:23:09,177
to cut the chance
of that happening in the future.

1893
01:23:09,282 --> 01:23:11,375
Obviously, once that's done,

1894
01:23:11,484 --> 01:23:13,281
then we would like to see that go

1895
01:23:13,386 --> 01:23:15,479
to whatever legislative bodies,

1896
01:23:15,588 --> 01:23:17,647
either provincial or federal,

1897
01:23:17,757 --> 01:23:21,124
can write laws to make
these recommendations real.

1898
01:23:24,230 --> 01:23:26,698
And a report into the death
of Zachary Turner

1899
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:28,267
will be released in Newfoundland.

1900
01:23:28,368 --> 01:23:29,892
He was drowned by his mother.

1901
01:23:30,003 --> 01:23:31,800
Your grandma was
temporarily injured in a fall

1902
01:23:31,905 --> 01:23:32,803
and couldn't make the trip,

1903
01:23:32,906 --> 01:23:34,635
so your grandpa and I came alone.

1904
01:23:34,741 --> 01:23:37,767
Dr. Markesteyn conducted
an exhaustive investigation

1905
01:23:37,877 --> 01:23:39,606
over a 15-month period.

1906
01:23:39,712 --> 01:23:42,078
He reached two key conclusions.

1907
01:23:42,182 --> 01:23:44,776
One, Zachary Turner's death
was preventable.

1908
01:23:44,884 --> 01:23:47,216
And, two,
Zachary was in his mother's care

1909
01:23:47,320 --> 01:23:48,287
when he should not have been.

1910
01:23:48,388 --> 01:23:50,822
The government has received
a scathing report

1911
01:23:50,924 --> 01:23:52,983
that concluded
the child-protection system

1912
01:23:53,092 --> 01:23:54,616
failed Zachary Turner.

1913
01:23:54,727 --> 01:23:57,890
A serious lack of judgment
at the senior-management level.

1914
01:23:57,997 --> 01:24:00,192
Substandard child-protection practices

1915
01:24:00,300 --> 01:24:01,562
contributed to the outcomes.

1916
01:24:01,668 --> 01:24:03,602
There are 58 recommendations
in the report.

1917
01:24:03,703 --> 01:24:05,432
I am announcing our action plan.

1918
01:24:05,538 --> 01:24:07,768
We will develop policy
specific to children

1919
01:24:07,874 --> 01:24:10,206
whose parents are charged
with a violent crime.

1920
01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:13,973
The part I was most interested
in, as I said, is bail.

1921
01:24:14,080 --> 01:24:16,014
Why was Dr. Shirley Turner granted

1922
01:24:16,115 --> 01:24:19,607
judicial interim release,
commonly known as bail?

1923
01:24:19,719 --> 01:24:20,981
This is the one question

1924
01:24:21,087 --> 01:24:23,681
that Dr. Markesteyn did not
and could not answer.

1925
01:24:23,790 --> 01:24:25,052
So, that's still an open wound,
if you would.

1926
01:24:25,158 --> 01:24:26,056
May I?

1927
01:24:26,159 --> 01:24:27,319
He did say this,

1928
01:24:27,427 --> 01:24:29,554
"Had Dr. Turner
not been released on bail

1929
01:24:29,662 --> 01:24:31,493
on 12 December 2001

1930
01:24:31,598 --> 01:24:34,624
or on 10 January 2003,

1931
01:24:34,734 --> 01:24:37,168
my review would have been unnecessary.

1932
01:24:37,270 --> 01:24:39,204
Zachary would be alive today."

1933
01:24:39,305 --> 01:24:41,273
I would like to see
Parliament pass a law

1934
01:24:41,374 --> 01:24:44,002
denying bail to people accused
of murder.

1935
01:24:44,110 --> 01:24:45,839
Put them on the fast track
to get to trial

1936
01:24:45,945 --> 01:24:47,708
and get on with it,
get to the truth.

1937
01:24:47,814 --> 01:24:49,475
The only way I can see it changing

1938
01:24:49,582 --> 01:24:52,312
is for every citizen who cares
about this to tell his M.P.

1939
01:24:52,418 --> 01:24:54,386
that "This law is stupid.
Change it."

1940
01:24:54,487 --> 01:24:56,352
And, of course,
such a selfish thing to do.

1941
01:24:56,456 --> 01:24:57,980
She not only killed Andrew,

1942
01:24:58,091 --> 01:25:00,685
but she left three other
children without a mother,

1943
01:25:00,793 --> 01:25:02,522
which is very sad for them.

1944
01:25:02,629 --> 01:25:04,654
And what kind of regret
does that give you?

1945
01:25:04,764 --> 01:25:07,255
Well, if things were different,

1946
01:25:07,367 --> 01:25:09,392
I guess it's possible
he'd still be alive

1947
01:25:09,502 --> 01:25:12,767
and rather than memories
of just one year,

1948
01:25:12,872 --> 01:25:15,363
there'd be a lot of years there now.

1949
01:25:15,475 --> 01:25:18,273
- Tough losing a little brother.
- Yeah, definitely.

1950
01:25:18,378 --> 01:25:20,107
Zachary should be right here with me.

1951
01:25:20,213 --> 01:25:22,078
He should be off going to school now,

1952
01:25:22,181 --> 01:25:23,239
getting ready to go to school.

1953
01:25:23,349 --> 01:25:25,476
I am going to continue to scream
long and loud

1954
01:25:25,585 --> 01:25:31,387
about bail for someone accused
of what Shirley did to my son.

1955
01:25:43,169 --> 01:25:44,534
I'd traveled the world for years

1956
01:25:44,637 --> 01:25:46,434
looking for what was left of your dad.

1957
01:25:46,539 --> 01:25:47,904
I'd made dozens of new friends.

1958
01:25:48,007 --> 01:25:50,601
Dr. DiCuccio has made the trek
out to California.

1959
01:25:50,710 --> 01:25:52,371
But there was still one question
I couldn't answer.

1960
01:25:52,478 --> 01:25:54,878
How would I know when I was done?

1961
01:25:54,981 --> 01:25:56,642
And what was I really looking for?

1962
01:25:56,749 --> 01:25:59,616
Both as spirituality and as grief,

1963
01:25:59,719 --> 01:26:02,483
the relocation of
the other person is essential.

1964
01:26:02,588 --> 01:26:03,612
It's interesting you should ask that.

1965
01:26:03,723 --> 01:26:05,816
My first response was,
"That's not a person."

1966
01:26:05,925 --> 01:26:12,125
That is simply a mass of tissue
and protein and fat and water.

1967
01:26:12,231 --> 01:26:14,756
Something leaves a body
when death occurs.

1968
01:26:14,867 --> 01:26:15,959
What was I trying to find?

1969
01:26:16,069 --> 01:26:17,001
To resolve our grief,

1970
01:26:17,103 --> 01:26:21,199
we have to be able to accept
the reality of that loss.

1971
01:26:21,307 --> 01:26:22,365
Who's interviewing you, Kurt?

1972
01:26:22,475 --> 01:26:24,909
Get our questions answered
to the extent that they can be

1973
01:26:25,011 --> 01:26:27,275
and to basically surrender

1974
01:26:27,380 --> 01:26:30,178
to the things
that we can't have answered.

1975
01:26:30,283 --> 01:26:31,944
And how would I know when I'd found it?

1976
01:26:32,051 --> 01:26:33,712
I appreciate you doing this for him.

1977
01:26:33,820 --> 01:26:35,549
'Cause I know he talked
about you a lot.

1978
01:26:35,655 --> 01:26:38,146
- He'd talk about you.
- Really?

1979
01:26:39,826 --> 01:26:43,057
Well, then, you're not
a good moviemaker, huh?

1980
01:26:45,398 --> 01:26:47,093
'Cause that's what he always told me.

1981
01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:48,132
I know he loved you.

1982
01:26:48,234 --> 01:26:50,896
And then to be able to continue to live

1983
01:26:51,004 --> 01:26:52,562
remembering the person.

1984
01:26:52,672 --> 01:26:56,005
To be able to remember their
life, not only their death.

1985
01:26:56,109 --> 01:26:57,576
No, no, no.
I can feel it.

1986
01:26:57,677 --> 01:27:00,339
It's not far off.
It's too late.

1987
01:27:00,446 --> 01:27:02,209
I didn't want to stop making
this movie.

1988
01:27:02,315 --> 01:27:04,749
That would mean I'd learned
everything there was to know

1989
01:27:04,851 --> 01:27:06,842
and finished
my one last movie with him.

1990
01:27:06,953 --> 01:27:11,356
Earl Grollman says grief is
love's unwillingness to let go.

1991
01:27:11,457 --> 01:27:13,118
He doesn't like to wave goodbye.

1992
01:27:13,226 --> 01:27:14,750
I'll miss you.

1993
01:27:16,929 --> 01:27:19,864
- Well, I'll be going.
- Bye.

1994
01:27:23,002 --> 01:27:24,731
One more time.
And action!

1995
01:27:24,837 --> 01:27:28,034
It is my brother
that got married here tonight.

1996
01:27:28,141 --> 01:27:29,665
One more time.
And action!

1997
01:27:29,776 --> 01:27:32,677
This is your Uncle Kurt.

1998
01:27:32,779 --> 01:27:34,406
One more time.
And action!

1999
01:27:39,118 --> 01:27:40,016
When the person says,

2000
01:27:40,119 --> 01:27:43,020
"Life will never be
the same again, will it?"

2001
01:27:43,122 --> 01:27:45,647
they now know where they are

2002
01:27:45,758 --> 01:27:47,988
and what's involved in moving forward.

2003
01:27:48,094 --> 01:27:51,062
There were so many stories
I wanted to tell you.

2004
01:27:51,164 --> 01:27:54,099
And somewhere I hope you're watching.

2005
01:27:54,200 --> 01:27:57,328
I almost gave up making
this film when you were killed.

2006
01:27:57,437 --> 01:27:59,098
I couldn't see the point anymore.

2007
01:27:59,205 --> 01:28:01,799
But something kept me going.

2008
01:28:01,908 --> 01:28:04,399
And then one day I realized
what it was.

2009
01:28:06,245 --> 01:28:08,941
This film was no longer
a letter to you.

2010
01:28:09,048 --> 01:28:10,879
It was now a letter to someone else.

2011
01:28:10,983 --> 01:28:13,315
We thought we'd go get Andrew,

2012
01:28:13,419 --> 01:28:14,716
get everything organized,
whatever,

2013
01:28:14,821 --> 01:28:17,119
and then kill ourselves,
'cause no point in going on.

2014
01:28:17,223 --> 01:28:18,121
Everybody always says,

2015
01:28:18,224 --> 01:28:20,692
"What would be the difference
if one person weren't alive?"

2016
01:28:20,793 --> 01:28:23,261
You've still got a hell of a lot
to live for,

2017
01:28:23,362 --> 01:28:27,162
and you've still got a lot
of friends and a lot of family

2018
01:28:27,266 --> 01:28:29,496
who love you very, very much.

2019
01:28:29,602 --> 01:28:31,593
You are the most amazing and...

2020
01:28:31,704 --> 01:28:33,069
I love both of you.

2021
01:28:33,172 --> 01:28:35,538
...the strongest people
I've ever known.

2022
01:28:35,641 --> 01:28:37,165
- I love you guys.
- I love them very much.

2023
01:28:37,276 --> 01:28:39,210
- I love them very much.
- I love them very much.

2024
01:28:39,312 --> 01:28:41,439
Now, how am I gonna do this
without weeping?

2025
01:28:41,547 --> 01:28:44,243
I admire you and respect you
so much for two things.

2026
01:28:44,350 --> 01:28:46,545
One, for such a wonderful
young man that you raised.

2027
01:28:46,652 --> 01:28:48,950
It doesn't matter what happened.
They raised a wonderful man.

2028
01:28:49,055 --> 01:28:50,989
Thanks for bringing such a
wonderful person into the world.

2029
01:28:51,090 --> 01:28:53,991
You know,
Andrew contributed a lot to me

2030
01:28:54,093 --> 01:28:55,424
as far as who I am today.

2031
01:28:55,528 --> 01:28:56,722
We won't forget their son.

2032
01:28:56,829 --> 01:28:58,023
...and for having the strength

2033
01:28:58,131 --> 01:28:59,496
to make it through something like this.

2034
01:28:59,599 --> 01:29:03,262
With what you've been through,
to still be carrying on,

2035
01:29:03,369 --> 01:29:07,362
still to hold your heads up and
keep going and pushing forward

2036
01:29:07,473 --> 01:29:09,464
is amazing.

2037
01:29:09,575 --> 01:29:11,543
They've done it in such a way
that it makes you proud

2038
01:29:11,644 --> 01:29:13,111
to know them and to be related to them.

2039
01:29:13,212 --> 01:29:14,907
I think God put some people
down on Earth

2040
01:29:15,014 --> 01:29:17,312
just to be examples for the rest of us.

2041
01:29:17,416 --> 01:29:20,317
You are two very,
very special people.

2042
01:29:20,419 --> 01:29:21,681
There's a few things in my life

2043
01:29:21,787 --> 01:29:24,153
that have had an effect on me
like those two people.

2044
01:29:24,257 --> 01:29:25,952
I don't know how else.
I love them.

2045
01:29:26,058 --> 01:29:27,685
- We love you.
- Well, we love them.

2046
01:29:27,793 --> 01:29:30,193
- We're always thinking of you.
- And I think about them daily.

2047
01:29:30,296 --> 01:29:32,093
My thoughts are never far
from either of you.

2048
01:29:32,198 --> 01:29:33,665
I love them and pray for them.

2049
01:29:33,766 --> 01:29:35,063
God's blessings on them both.

2050
01:29:35,168 --> 01:29:36,499
Oh, they know I love them.

2051
01:29:36,602 --> 01:29:39,264
I feel very blessed, as I say,
to be among their friends.

2052
01:29:39,372 --> 01:29:42,705
I just thank them for being
my friends for 30-odd years.

2053
01:29:42,808 --> 01:29:44,969
We're very lucky to have them
as our neighbors

2054
01:29:45,077 --> 01:29:46,544
and our true friends.

2055
01:29:46,646 --> 01:29:47,977
God bless you guys and call me.

2056
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:52,141
And as one of Andrew's
very good friends told us

2057
01:29:52,251 --> 01:29:55,414
very soon after he was murdered,
we still have children.

2058
01:29:57,857 --> 01:30:00,257
Kurt, Matt, Chris,
on down the list.

2059
01:30:00,359 --> 01:30:01,951
I feel like I got lucky in life

2060
01:30:02,061 --> 01:30:03,756
'cause they're another set of parents.

2061
01:30:03,863 --> 01:30:05,125
Kate and David were a big reason

2062
01:30:05,231 --> 01:30:08,564
why I am the person that I am today.

2063
01:30:08,668 --> 01:30:09,896
We're all their kids.

2064
01:30:10,002 --> 01:30:11,367
I'll always be there for you guys.

2065
01:30:11,470 --> 01:30:12,630
And I love you both dearly.

2066
01:30:12,738 --> 01:30:13,898
We all love you guys so much.

2067
01:30:14,006 --> 01:30:16,031
There's really nothing
that I wouldn't do for them.

2068
01:30:16,142 --> 01:30:17,700
Do you feel better?

2069
01:30:17,810 --> 01:30:19,801
Do you feel better?

2070
01:30:21,180 --> 01:30:22,545
Yeah.

2071
01:30:23,983 --> 01:30:25,610
Yeah, you make me feel better.

2072
01:30:25,718 --> 01:30:27,208
I know that no matter what,

2073
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:31,654
you're going to find ways
to continue to help people

2074
01:30:31,757 --> 01:30:34,385
because that's the type
of people you are.

2075
01:30:34,493 --> 01:30:35,721
That's how good you are.

2076
01:30:35,828 --> 01:30:37,853
I just hope that Dave and Kate realize

2077
01:30:37,964 --> 01:30:39,056
how much he loved them,

2078
01:30:39,165 --> 01:30:41,326
because just in the short
period of time that I knew him,

2079
01:30:41,434 --> 01:30:43,994
that was the one truth
that I knew to be absolute.

2080
01:30:44,103 --> 01:30:46,196
I'm glad I wasn't a rebellious youth,

2081
01:30:46,305 --> 01:30:48,398
because it would have been
completely and utterly

2082
01:30:48,507 --> 01:30:50,270
fucking wasted on David and Kate Bagby.

2083
01:30:50,376 --> 01:30:51,468
I mean, totally.

2084
01:30:51,577 --> 01:30:54,808
I had my ear pierced for two weeks.

2085
01:30:54,914 --> 01:30:57,144
They never noticed.

2086
01:30:57,250 --> 01:30:58,376
I'm finally sitting
at the dinner table,

2087
01:30:58,484 --> 01:30:59,883
and I actually said to them,
I'm like,

2088
01:30:59,986 --> 01:31:01,476
"You know, Mom, Dad,

2089
01:31:01,587 --> 01:31:03,487
it's a good thing
I'm not looking for attention

2090
01:31:03,589 --> 01:31:05,580
because hello!"

2091
01:31:05,691 --> 01:31:06,988
And they just had a look at it,
and they're like,

2092
01:31:07,093 --> 01:31:08,993
"Oh, that's nice.
When did you get that done?"

2093
01:31:09,095 --> 01:31:13,759
And I love you,
and I know you love me and...

2094
01:31:13,866 --> 01:31:16,926
Yeah. I kind of need to move on
from that.

2095
01:31:17,036 --> 01:31:18,264
'Cause I'm a Bagby male.

2096
01:31:18,371 --> 01:31:20,032
We don't gush very much.

2097
01:33:20,033 --> 01:33:21,033
Subtitles by LeapinLar
tiny edits and formatting by rogard