So, I'll walk a bit before I start talking. Yeah.
Are you ready?
Hang on a minute, I've got a hair stuck in my eye. There you go.
Sorry, OK. OK.
I actually don't mind the rain.
I love the pitter-patter sound through the leaves.
'I was filming for This Morning.
'I was making this beautiful series about forests and trees',
which I just wanted to do
because I wanted to get forests and trees onto This Morning.
I was away with a new team of people,
I hadn't worked with them before, I was literally up trees.
There were emails going back and forth
about when I could take this call
to hear the results of a biopsy that I'd had done a week before
on a lump in my left breast.
OK. OK?
I knew that I wouldn't be able to take the call
because I wasn't prepared for it to be bad news,
and also I wasn't with somebody that I knew to say,
"Listen, I need to have time out to process this."
So I had to delay that till I was back.
Just keep walking, Julia.
I was ready for the call, and I was here at home,
and it was a sunny day, and I was outside.
My consultant, Mr Gui, called and said,
"We've got the results of the biopsy and, yes, you have got cancer,
"and it's a big tumour."
RADIO REPORT: 'After three separate assessments,
'Julia Bradbury has been told she has breast cancer
'and is having emergency surgery next month
'to have her left breast removed.
'I should say, on the Woman's Hour website, we will share...'
When you hear the words "you've got cancer"...
..your world stops.
It is like moving instantly into slow motion.
I just thought, "Shit. OK."
And then it was, "I've gotta live."
"I need to be here. I want to be here."
PRESS SHOUTING
I didn't want the information about my breast cancer to be out there
before I told my children.
I didn't want them to hear that "Mummy's got cancer"
from somewhere else, or somebody else.
So I decided to keep the news to myself
until I made certain that everything was right at home with my family.
Mama? Yeah?
Which one do you like? Those ones?
My favourite colour today... That one, that one, that one?
..is purple.
What's your favourite colour in there?
Can I pick two?
Can I pick these two?
Yeah, yeah.
'My partner Gerry and I both came to parenthood quite late in our lives.
'I had my little boy Zeph at the age of 40,
'then I was desperate for him to have siblings,
'but time was clocking on.
'I had to go down the IVF route
'to fall pregnant with Zeph's twin sisters,
'who were eventually born three years later.'
"There was once a herd of elephants, elephants young, elephants old,
"elephants tall or fat or thin."
No, that one's not Elmer...
For me, the most painful thing of it all was thinking of my children.
The thought about leaving your children behind,
you know, the most joyful thing about motherhood
is watching them develop.
And my children are at these gorgeous ages
where every day is a little landmark.
One of my little girls is very shy
and she overcomes something at school,
and you feel every moment with her,
when she puts her hand up, when she's done it against her instinct.
Ooh, and I got my highest test in English.
'My little boy Zeph, he's a bit cheeky, which we love.
'And Xanthe's this chattery little thing.'
And you think, "Are you ever gonna stop talking?"
Every day, you have one of those gorgeous moments with them
when they are little.
And that makes a cancer diagnosis...
For me, it just made it... just, whoa, so, so sad.
When I told Gerry, he was absolutely devastated,
but he's the most supportive human being.
And he said, "We'll get through it, we'll look after the kids,
"and you're fit and you're healthy,
"and we'll do everything to get you through it."
We didn't quite know how to tell the kids, and what to tell the kids.
We didn't wanna say, "Mummy's gonna die",
but I also didn't wanna lie to them.
We decided that the best thing to do
was to take them for a walk around the garden,
because that's where they feel comfortable and happy.
And just to be honest and say, "Mummy's not very well",
and mention the "cancer" word.
And I remember my little girl, and I'm going to try not to cry,
said, "Can I still hug you?"
And I was like, "Yes, of course you can still hug me,"
"and I want you to hug me tighter when this has happened."
No, actually, I can't not cry when I... when I think about that.
One of the hardest things I've gone through in my life
is to tell my children that I've got cancer.
Yeah.
Yep, that's great, and if you stay on the scales
but turn around and face the window. OK.
Once you've got your cancer diagnosis
and they've worked out what type of cancer it is,
then it's, "Right, the treatment programme,
"this is what we can do, this is what we have to do,
"when can you do it, when can you have the operation?"
And you can drink sips of water only until 6am. OK.
I was told that, "You have to have a mastectomy,
"we're going to have to remove your breast,
"take away all the breast tissue,
"and we might be able to save your skin and your nipple."
Erm...
Pfft, and then that word, "amputation" of your breast,
it's shocking, it's absolutely shocking.
We tend to use an anatomical teardrop-shaped silicone prosthesis.
I was told that it would be possible for me
to have reconstruction at the same time as my mastectomy.
Because of the type of cancer that I have,
as long as the tumour could be removed safely.
I was told, "The tumour is probably contained,
"we'll be able to take it out in one, hopefully,
"we don't know if it's spread to your lymph nodes,
"we'll take out a lymph or lymph nodes
"and we'll see if it's spread anywhere else."
Erm, silicone, silicone implant...
What's that's gonna look like? How's that gonna feel?
How-how am I going to feel with a silicone implant inside my body?
And then you're like... SHE MOUTHS
"Wow!"
You really need to take six weeks off from doing anything.
This is a big operation, so just gently, gently.
Right.
You just don't have any idea
of how this is all going to unravel.
You're really in the dark
about how you're going to feel emotionally and physically.
You know, you think about chemotherapy,
you think about losing parts of your body,
"Has the cancer spread?"
Sorry, it might feel a bit cold.
For somebody who's very much in control of their lives,
you feel alone and helpless.
Boo! Hello.
It's Granny!
Would you like those? Because if you don't, I'll take them back.
Yes, please. No?
Apples! Yeah. Would you like an apple?
I didn't tell my mum for a long time.
My mum had bowel cancer, my dad had prostate cancer,
I knew if I just told her, "Look, I've been for this biopsy,
"and it's some sort of cancer, and they don't know what yet",
that, to my mum, that's just like a death sentence
because her mind would go...
First of all, she'd want to come and live with me straightaway
and come to every single appointment.
Which is lovely, this isn't a bad thing.
But I, for her, for her own health...
I mean, she's in her 80s, she's had her own stuff going on.
I've been here since last Friday.
Can't get rid of her. No.
They didn't want me to come to start with,
and I've come because...
Because I couldn't stay away any longer.
PRODUCER: What was Julia like as a child?
A nuisance.
SHE CHUCKLES
No, she had a terrible habit
of putting the record players, in those days, they were,
full-blast Blondie, and going out.
And me having a headache
and wondering what was the matter with me,
and it was Julia having left me with Blondie blaring out.
She was very affectionate.
And she was very funny in a nice way.
How are you feeling
about everything that's going on with Julia at the moment?
It's like having it all over again, to be honest.
And I do believe that the worst thing is now waiting.
I-I'm looking forward to recovery
and, you know, what's going to happen when you recover.
Well, we don't know.
You have to stop working.
Not... I'm saying that, but I-I-I didn't want...
You've got to stop rushing about.
It's very important to prepare your body for what's going to happen.
JULIA CHUCKLES
Aw.
Oh.
When she told us she had been diagnosed, I was shell-shocked.
I can't tell you how I felt, because I didn't even know myself.
I still don't know.
Other than if someone had said,
"Can you take it away from her and you can have it?",
I'd have said yes.
Of course, it did help that she, Julia,
tackled it head-on by coming to see us.
We can't put ourselves in those shoes,
we don't know just when she's feeling scared,
particularly vulnerable.
And all you can do is be there
and provide, you know, whatever you can.
EMMA BARNETT: 'In her first broadcast interview,
'Julia joins me now. Julia, good morning.'
'Morning, Emma. Good morning, all the Woman's Hour listeners.'
'You spoke in print to the Mail On Sunday journalist,
'and I know that the reason you've come onto that is because...'
Who was it who said this?
"My daughter said, 'Mummy can I still hug you?
"and I said, 'Yes, my darling,
"'I need your hugs more now than ever.'"
Xanthe. Me.
'I didn't think I really had a choice about going public.
'I wanted just to give an open and honest account
'of what I was going through.'
The statistic is one in seven women
will get breast cancer in their lifetime,
and, obviously, it is...
It is the club that nobody wants to be a member of.
How does it feel to become a member of that club?
Er... I-I suppose, like most members of this exclusive club,
I didn't think I'd get in.
It's ten days to go now until my op.
And it feels like...
Erm, it feels like I'm part of some really bad gameshow.
Like the Hunger Games or something.
Even though this op is hopefully going to get rid of the cancer,
and, fingers crossed, it hasn't spread anywhere else,
and it's going to save me, hopefully...
SHE SNIFFS
I find my hand moving to my boob,
just, just holding, holding it.
And knowing that it's not going to feel the same
and be the same again.
I feel really scared and shocked and frightened, and...
..loss.
Right, where do you want me, love?
If you can squeeze in here. I can do that.
'Today is the last day of filming before my op.
'I've been making a series of films for This Morning
'about beautiful woodlands, which is a bit of a passion project.
'It's a lovely thing to take to the This Morning audience
'because it's quite new.'
And how do you feel about it being the last day of work for a while?
Yeah, I feel a bit weird about that, obviously.
It's gonna be quite strange.
I don't wanna break down and come across as a blubbering idiot.
What's happening today, anything special?
Not really.
No tests today? Only one.
All right, my love, OK.
Have a good day, and I'll see you when I get back.
Bye. I'll be here. All right, my love.
Go, go, off you go. Bye. Bye-bye.
When you announce to the wider world that you have cancer,
it instantly puts you in a vulnerable position.
So, basically, at the top of the show... Yes.
..when we're talking about the forest VTs that you've shot...
And then there might be question just at the end, to ask how you are.
Yeah. Is that OK? Yeah, perfect.
If you asked ten people what they thought about Julia,
the five that think I'm really annoying and brash,
and just, you know, all of that stuff, we'll get rid of those.
But the others will go,
"Positive, loud, energetic, determined."
But not "vulnerable, scared",
Tho-those would not be... "Soft."
Those would probably not be some of the adjectives
that would be used to describe me.
How are you, sweetheart? All right, you?
Good, yeah.
Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah.
Could... Could be better.
I promised myself today as well,
"Don't cry on live TV, don't cry on live TV!"
You're not used to being a person that people feel sorry for, are you?
No, no. I'm not used to that, I suppose.
Even to my family, I don't really like to show that side.
Thank you. Morning, guys.
Hello, my love. How are you?
I know! Get your bacon sarnie in. I'm fine, thank you.
Yeah, I'm good. I'm all right.
Yes, perfect. Yeah, a bit of a highlight, tick.
Being up the trees, high up the tree, remember I was high.
Definitely, and I'll say, "Yes,
"and it's been a pleasure to make these."
Thank you, my love. Perfect, thank you.
People are trying to show you that they care,
and that's a lovely thing,
but it does make me feel a little bit sad.
You are, erm... You are very happy here.
It's very calming for you, you love it.
And we all go through times in our lives
when we need something a little bit calming. Yeah.
Which is what you do right now. How are you feeling?
I feel all right, actually, thank you.
I mean, people might know,
I've been open about my breast cancer diagnosis.
You got that call whilst you were doing the films for us?
Yes, I wanted to finish these series of films for you
because they're really important to me,
and I wanted people to feel the love that I do for nature.
This is the last live TV you're doing before op, isn't it?
This is my last live TV before the op,
so I will see you on the other side.
Yeah, we're sending big, big hugs.
Oh, we send you so much love, we really do.
And thank you, beautiful films. Thank you so much. Thank you.
'You talk about things in a different way
'when you're being interviewed and when you're on camera and stuff.'
And you say things that...
It's almost as if I'm talking about somebody else,
and I'm looking at that other person
and feeling sorry for that other person...
And that other person is me.
So it's kind of a weird thing to... A weird place to be in.
It's three nights before my operation now,
and I started self-isolating this morning,
so I took all my kids to school, waved goodbye at the gates...
..and then we all knew collectively
that I wouldn't be able to hug them again until after my operation.
It's an extra layer of complication
that really makes this horrible process
even shittier, if that's possible.
SHE EXHALES
And I don't mind saying...
that I'm... scared now.
And...
now it's real dread that I'm feeling.
Real dread.
And you hope it's a dream, and you're wrong, and...
..this isn't what you're going to go through. But it is.
Yeah, it's not the eighth.
That's normally where I go for imaging, the eighth floor.
And do you walk? Of course I do.
Oh, don't be ridiculous. A little bit of exercise.
I always take the stairs, never the lift.
Even for eight floors? Yeah. Fool.
I've always been the big sis,
and I've always tried to be there for her
and protect her in the best way that I can.
And that isn't always easy, because she can be a diva
and, like you know, she can throw her toys out the pram, as can I.
But I've always had her back.
Oh, what's the date today? 7th? It's the 7th.
'We've been joined at the hip.
'I mean, she came to London when she was 17 and I was 27,
'cos there's a ten-year age gap between us,
'so I've always been the bigger sister.'
And I've watched her
get knocked back, knocked back, knocked back when she was little.
And she was able to get up, she'd dust herself down,
get up, and start all over again.
And she'll do the same now, I'm absolutely sure.
She's doing it, she is doing it.
So, you know, and I'm right by her side while she is.
We're going to do a very small injection of a radioactive tracer,
just under the skin, and it sounds quite frightening,
but it's a very small amount of radiation.
And the body will start to remove it from where we've injected,
just up through your lymphatic channels.
So, the point for that is that tomorrow, during your surgery,
they want to be able to quickly find the lymph node
that's closest to the nipple that it's been draining to.
Just so that they can quickly find it.
Right. OK? OK.
Right, where do I lie? So, sitting about here,
head on the pillow, please, feet up this end, on your back.
OK, so, it's under the skin now.
OK, a bit of pressure.
Are you all right?
All done.
Thank you. You're welcome.
We'll move you in under the camera,
and everyone can stay in the room, all right?
'Just felt suddenly overwhelmed then, when she exposed my breast.
'It just erm... Just...
'I thought, "That's what's gonna happen tomorrow morning."'
'This is so painful for me to see.
'We've never, ever had anything like this.'
SOBBING: It's not fair. It's just not fair.
It should be me that, you know...
I'm the one that drinks and does all the wrong things, not her.
So, I'm gonna do a little dot now. Yeah.
You're doing really well.
SHE SIGHS
I just wish it was me, I really do wish it was me.
She's got little children, you know...
My son's 23, he's... you know, a great lad,
he's on his journey, he's on his way in life.
She's got little ones, you know?
How are you doing? Yeah...
Yeah, you know.
It's just a bit more emotional than I thought it would be.
Erm...
It's... It's just my last day of...
..just being me,
and having my full body and having all my boobs and...
Just, when I lay down then and she just exposed my breast...
I'm not shy, it's not about...
It's not sort of about body image or... It's just, erm...
I just thought when she did it and she exposed my breast,
and then she started to touch around that area,
I just thought, "That's what's going to be happening tomorrow morning."
You know, there's going to be a surgeon around my breast,
chopping it open,
and taking it away.
Taking the cancer out, but... just changing me forever.
So, my surgeon's been in, he's marked up my body.
So you feel like you've been tattooed a bit.
He explained that he just wants to get the symmetry right,
and, obviously, when you lie down, everything looks different.
So he measured me again, he took photographs again,
he checked where my mark from yesterday's procedure was.
Because that's where they'll remove the lymph node from, there.
And, yeah, it's a weird process sort of being marked up.
You know, you do feel a bit like a slab of meat.
I've been... I've been pretty strong today.
I don't think I've... I don't know if I've cried yet today,
and I've cried most days while this has been going on.
But today, I just... I do, I'm a little bit, a little bit...
Just because it's a bit overwhelming, the whole thing.
But for all the women who have gone through this,
and for all the women who are going to go through this,
this is the best possible thing.
And I know that, you know, this is to get me through to the other side.
So, yeah. It's good.
You've got this, you'll be fine. See you later.
I'll see you on the other side.
See you on the other side, everybody.
I'm... I'm back at home, and I've had a little, a little nap.
And my girls have come home from school.
And I'm going to surprise them with cuddles on the bed.
This is the longest time that I've ever gone without seeing them,
because we didn't video-call while I was in hospital
because I didn't want to scare them.
Mummy!
Yah!
Careful, my loves.
Careful, gently.
Are you crying?
Yes, I'm crying, but please can I have a cuddle?
Yeah.
I can see a bit. You can see it.
But look, I've got to wear this.
'One of the last things I did before the operation
'was to say goodbye to my left boob.
'I just said,
' "Thank you for everything we've been through together."
'You know, I've breastfed my children from both of my breasts.
'And I see them on my breasts.
'And I've, you know, jumped into the sea,
'and been running, and walking up mountains,
'and, you know, my boobs have been there for me.'
And I've got little boobs, and they're small
and, up until now, were pretty perfectly formed.
And then I just remember the anaesthetist explaining,
"This will happen."
And then there was another nurse on the other side of me,
and she said, "That's it, you're going to fall asleep in a minute.
"Just think happy thoughts." And I remember starting to cry.
Because I couldn't feel happy thoughts because I thought,
"I'm just about to go in and have my boob cut off",
so that was my last thing, was this...
And I just remember the feeling of the tears going down,
and then I fell asleep.
And then I woke up, and the op had been done.
I can't sleep very well.
SHE YAWNS
It doesn't seem to matter what time you go to bed,
or how tired you are.
3am seems to be the witching hour.
Just aching, really.
It's like a dull ache, it's nothing too bad.
It's just enough to make you uncomfortable and wake you up.
I haven't wanted to look at my breast
while it was still very angry and sore.
Of course, look, I've showered
and I've caught a glimpse of this and that,
but I haven't stood front-on in a mirror,
because I wanted it to be when I felt emotionally ready
and when I felt that, physically, I had had some time to heal.
SHE EXHALES
There we go.
That's my new boob.
OK, well...
It looks like a boob.
It just looks like a big, lumpy boob.
I can't feel that at all.
It might come back one day, the sensation.
But strangely, I can't feel my fingertips at all.
That's where the silicone is, you can see the ripple there.
It looks like a plasticine boob at the moment.
It's gonna be...
It's going to take a bit of getting used to.
How much do I love you? So much!
Be brave, be strong, be kind.
Yeah? Have a wonderful playdate, as well.
And I'll see you when I get back.
I've put this day out of my mind,
and all I've concentrated on is getting through the operation,
surviving the operation, getting through the mastectomy,
handling my pain, getting home.
And I haven't focused on today until this morning.
And today, I just feel very, very nervous,
and just wanna get it done
and find out if the cancer has spread
and what the next step is.
Today is about the results of the pathology, all right?
The area of involvement within the breasts
was around 5 to 6cm.
All right. All right?
And indeed, the pathology shows that the area,
it's completely excised, which is good news.
We wouldn't really be looking down the route
of any invasive treatment, like chemotherapy.
OK. That's fantastic. Thank you.
And because it's completely removed and denotes a negative,
you wouldn't need any radiotherapy either.
OK? So the only thing I would say is that there was a small area
of potential what's called "microinvasion".
Microinvasion involves a small number of cells only,
spilling into the substance of the breast itself.
The only thing that might be worth considering is to use a drug
that is antiestrogenic, such as tamoxifen,
in a preventative manner.
However, with all drugs, there is a balance of risks.
The most common is flushing and sweating.
It can sometimes aggravate endometriosis.
OK. Rarely, it can also induce tumours
within the lining of the womb... Cancerous tumours?
That's right, and endometrial cancer.
Tamoxifen can also cause clots.
So, a little bit of thinking to do. A little bit of thinking to do,
but, you know, it has to be kind of taken in the context
of balances and benefits versus risks.
OK. All right, thank you.
'I wish I could say to you, "I've had my mastectomy,
' "and the prognosis is really good,
' "and I can just get on with my life now." '
'But the reality is there is a chance
'of that breast cancer coming back.'
'The re-occurrence risk,
'that is the thing now that hangs over me,
'so I've thrown myself
'into the research about my kind of cancer.'
So I'm peeing on sticks and spitting into tubes
and having bloods and speaking to as many people as I can
about everything related.
'Hey there.' Hi, Gareth. Hello. How are you?
'I'm good, I'm good.'
I've done this state-of-the-art test,
which is called a "SNPs test".
SNPs is the short term, I won't give you the big, long word.
But we all get handed down common variants from our parents,
and it has a look at those common variants,
and it can tell you if you've got some bad ones in there,
which could increase your chances of breast cancer,
or, actually, if you've got good ones.
So I wanted to find out
what my risk of re-occurrence is in cold hard facts.
'OK, Julia.
'So, your risks are substantially increased,
'but compared to the average woman with breast cancer,
'you're just above the 13% average.'
OK. 'You're not high-risk.'
Right, OK, and that's...
'At high risk, you would need to be at least double population
'to think about surgery for the other side.'
Right.
Now, I personally think that that test,
it should be available on the NHS
because it would save so much time and money in future treatment.
What if I told you that I will...
radically change my lifestyle, turnaround my diet?
'Because you are already pretty healthy,
'being a bit more healthy or pushing the extremes of healthiness
'is probably not gonna make a massive difference for you.'
The most important thing to me is not to get cancer again.
'The period of time when cancer comes back is five years,
'mostly, within a five-year period...'
'..and my children are ten and six. They're babies!'
So five years is nothing in their lives, you know, I...
I need to live for more than five years.
'When people talk about the recovery from breast cancer,
'and, "Oh, the treatment is good now.
' "The survival rates are very good",
'I don't think there's enough emphasis
'on what recovery is,
'on what handling breast cancer is all about.
'I'm trying to learn how to handle that.'
Well, welcome to Maggie's. Thank you very much.
I'm the clinical psychologist here.
First of all, I realise I have a lot to process...
Yes. ..and a lot to really understand.
Now I am post-mastectomy, I've got to love my new breast,
I've got to get myself physically fit again,
and I really want to know how to deal with the future.
But there's always this question mark
with cancer of re-occurrence.
Is that, then, one of the key stages that you would say
you are at now in your cancer journey?
It's still very fresh as well, and coming to terms with it all.
It's... Your body and your life changes in just a few weeks,
so I sit here as a new person, with a new bit.
Yeah. ..and I've lost a bit of me as well.
And then I do also think
about other ladies, who are going through this,
who have had worse diagnoses than me,
or a more aggressive cancer than me...
I see. ..and that also makes me sad
because I feel like I should be very grateful for where I am,
and what my cancer experience is. OK, yeah.
Yeah.
And for me, that's why I think
the time to process something like this is so important,
and, indeed, the gratitude is there.
But that still doesn't mean that you can't feel,
or you wouldn't feel the sadness, the anger...
..the loss, because, as you know,
cancer has kind of crashed into your life, actually,
and because of that, it brings a lot of stuff.
And everybody around me.
You know, my family, and my partner, and my parents,
and my friends, and my loved ones. It's... It's...
It's crashed into all their lives as well.
TEARFULLY: And I feel sad
that I've sort of brought this into their lives.
"So, the Feelings Tree is a way
"of showing your emotions without talking.
"Each leaf has an emotion written on it.
"Stick on an emotion you're feeling using the glue dots."
What does this one mean?
Pink spots are "a little bit angry on the inside".
Sad. Do you want "sad"?
Do you want a sad one? Sad.
That's... It's gonna upset Mum. No, it won't upset me, sweetheart.
HUSHED: You know, not everybody is...
Not everybody is chatty-chatty, and tells everybody everything,
and that's fine, that's OK.
But if you are really worried or you want to talk about something,
it's always better to do that, especially with somebody you trust.
Yeah? Yeah.
Yeah, you can always tell me.
'I hate it. I think it's one of the things that I hate most
'about this whole experience,'
is... the impact that it has on everybody.
You know, the sort of... the shrapnel effect.
Everybody goes through it with you, and everybody suffers,
and that's... that's also really unfair.
Mum, can I have a guppy fish?
We'll see. We'll see.
Ooh, goldfish. Goldfish!
Hands up if you think you're responsible enough
to get a goldfish.
I think... CHILDREN SCREAM
OK, we can choose what fish we want.
Right side or on that side?
That's the... That is... This is the side.
This is the sore side. Have you tingled yet?
I have tingled today, yes.
I got a little tingle. When?
Uh, this morning, when I was doing exercises, I tingled,
and when I was in bed, I tingled. So that's good.
That means the feeling is coming, the sensation is coming.
'There can't be a parent in the world,
'who doesn't worry about the impact of being ill.
'You know, everybody's been a bit sad.
'There have been lots of tears and lots of emotions.
'There is this roller-coaster that you go along.
'It would be impossible for them not to pick up on that.'
My little boy, I was reading to him in bed,
and he just, out of nowhere, said,
"Is it... Is it contagious, Mummy, like COVID, cancer?"
And I went, "No, it's not, sweetheart,
"it's this different thing."
So he'd obviously been thinking about it.
'We're all going through this together,
'and it's hard to know, as a parent,
'if you're getting it right with your children,
'and if you're talking to them about cancer in the right way.
'I mean, what is the right way?'
Oh, right, we're going to Greenwich, please.
This is exciting. Are you looking forward to this, Zeph? Mm-hm.
Do you remember what we're going to do today? No.
So, we're going to go and meet some other families... Yeah.
..whose mummies... I don't know if it's mummies and daddies
or just mummies, who have also had cancer.
Right now have cancer? Yeah. Oh!
We're going to learn about what it is, and the treatments,
and also what it's like for you guys,
what it's like for the family, what it's like for the children...
Yeah. ..when that happens.
Hello!
So, my name is Caroline,
and we're going to be doing a show about cancer.
Hello, team! Nice to see you. Thank goodness you came.
Because Mavis has not been feeling very well,
and her doctor sent her to us...
..because she's had a little bit of a pain in her kidney,
so we're going to ask our radiologist to step up...
Go on, Zeph.
Come on, here we go. Fabulous.
LAUGHTER
OK, I think you made the right decision.
So, I'm going to ask...
'This is never a lesson
'that you want to have to teach your children, about cancer.
'That's not something any of us, as parents, want to do.'
It's good, isn't it?
It's really good for them. Really good!
Really good way of explaining it all.
Have you... So, I've had, erm...
I've had a mastectomy.
I've got an oestrogen-positive... I had an oestrogen-positive cancer,
but it was quite contained, so now it's...
sort of psychologically working out what to do about preventative,
going on something, going on a tamoxifen, or that kind of drug,
and the impact that it would have on me.
So I'm doing lots of, erm, tests and hormones
and genetics, and all of that stuff to...
And some of my family have said, "Why are you doing that?
"Why don't you just sort of, like, get on now?"
And, no, I need to know.
And even if the, yeah, the treatment is a psychological...
Yeah. It's a lot of that.
That keeps going for a long time, yeah.
Cos we've... I've, erm...
I was diagnosed six years ago.
Right. Yes, I've read a little bit about that. Stage 4 cancer.
Yeah, so we'll go to the oncologist, and it will be like,
"Oh, amazing news, everything's fine."
And then, three months later, it's like,
"Oh, it's actually... No, it's not good news.
"We've got to change."
And it's all those emotions... Yeah.
..that change with it all the time.
Do you still talk to them about your treatments and stuff,
or is it, is it now just like an everyday living?
Etienne, do you think
we talk about chemotherapy and things at home?
Sometimes. When things change?
Hm...
Yeah, sometimes, you give us news
about what has happened to your chemotherapy, or, like...
..what will happen, or what you hope is gonna happen.
And how do you feel when your mummy tells you something about that?
Er, well, sometimes, it's bad news,
which is not a very pleasant feeling...
But sometimes it's good news.
..but when she said the cancer was getting smaller,
it was a good feeling.
No way!
My own scientist glasses! SHE LAUGHS
Good, Dr Zeph!
'For everybody, it's very uncharted territory.
'How is this period of their lives going to affect them
'in five years' time, in ten years' time?'
I can't, we can't answer that question right now.
Erm, and I hope we've handled it pretty well,
and I hope I'm still alive in ten years
to ask them a question, but...
erm, you just do the best that you can.
How was he when you were going through it all?
Erm, he didn't really understand too, too much of what was happening.
I wasn't too... way too open about it.
But, I mean, he could tell things were a bit different with me.
Did it hurt? I mean, yeah, I was in pain.
You know, I've got a medicine that's attacking
all my good cells and bad cells, so yeah.
What's the prognosis for you, what did they say?
Or do you try not to think about it? I try not to think about that
because, initially, they did say that the drugs is 21 months, etc,
but I surpassed that. So I, for me, I'm like,
"Well, I'm gonna just keep on going as the medicine keeps on working",
and I keep a positive mindset, and, you know, like, I'm here.
I'm living with secondary, but I'm still here... Yeah.
..and, you know, I will keep going, and, hopefully, you know,
live a more fulfilling... and more years to come.
'There's still a little bit of disbelief that I'm in that room
'with those mums and those parents...'
..as one of them.
Cancer is a lifetime diagnosis.
It's not something that is dealt with
once you've had whatever treatment you have.
It is something you then need to learn to deal with
for the rest of your life.
And that's a big learning curve for me.
Xanthe, that's a bracelet.
Watch out. I can't. I'm higher up, I can't.
Wait, could you catch me?
Well, I might break your fall.
'I think cancer's put me in a very different place.
'I think it's put me on a different footing.'
It's changed your life. Completely changed my life.
Life is incredibly precious. I'm very, very lucky.
I have three amazing children, who I have to live for.
And actually, I'm going to take this very horrible, bad,
negative thing that's happened to me,
and I'm gonna turn it into something positive.
Because the ordinary things and the simple things
and the small things are the most important things.
Come on, Daddy-o. Coming!
Woo-hoo! Whoo!
THEY CHEER
Here you go. No!