1 00:00:00,700 --> 00:00:02,880 So, I'll walk a bit before I start talking. Yeah. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:04,000 Are you ready? 3 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,560 Hang on a minute, I've got a hair stuck in my eye. There you go. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:10,080 Sorry, OK. OK. 5 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:14,360 I actually don't mind the rain. 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,840 I love the pitter-patter sound through the leaves. 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,160 'I was filming for This Morning. 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,040 'I was making this beautiful series about forests and trees', 9 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:25,360 which I just wanted to do 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,520 because I wanted to get forests and trees onto This Morning. 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,520 I was away with a new team of people, 12 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,240 I hadn't worked with them before, I was literally up trees. 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,520 There were emails going back and forth 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,120 about when I could take this call 15 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,960 to hear the results of a biopsy that I'd had done a week before 16 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,400 on a lump in my left breast. 17 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:48,920 OK. OK? 18 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,360 I knew that I wouldn't be able to take the call 19 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,240 because I wasn't prepared for it to be bad news, 20 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,560 and also I wasn't with somebody that I knew to say, 21 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,880 "Listen, I need to have time out to process this." 22 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:02,920 So I had to delay that till I was back. 23 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,120 Just keep walking, Julia. 24 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,600 I was ready for the call, and I was here at home, 25 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,840 and it was a sunny day, and I was outside. 26 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,200 My consultant, Mr Gui, called and said, 27 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:19,040 "We've got the results of the biopsy and, yes, you have got cancer, 28 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,800 "and it's a big tumour." 29 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,400 RADIO REPORT: 'After three separate assessments, 30 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,600 'Julia Bradbury has been told she has breast cancer 31 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,760 'and is having emergency surgery next month 32 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:32,520 'to have her left breast removed. 33 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,440 'I should say, on the Woman's Hour website, we will share...' 34 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,360 When you hear the words "you've got cancer"... 35 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,800 ..your world stops. 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,040 It is like moving instantly into slow motion. 37 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,520 I just thought, "Shit. OK." 38 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,360 And then it was, "I've gotta live." 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,640 "I need to be here. I want to be here." 40 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,480 PRESS SHOUTING 41 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,640 I didn't want the information about my breast cancer to be out there 42 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,720 before I told my children. 43 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,440 I didn't want them to hear that "Mummy's got cancer" 44 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,560 from somewhere else, or somebody else. 45 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,240 So I decided to keep the news to myself 46 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,840 until I made certain that everything was right at home with my family. 47 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:44,880 Mama? Yeah? 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,560 Which one do you like? Those ones? 49 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,840 My favourite colour today... That one, that one, that one? 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,160 ..is purple. 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,520 What's your favourite colour in there? 52 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Can I pick two? 53 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,000 Can I pick these two? 54 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,280 Yeah, yeah. 55 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,280 'My partner Gerry and I both came to parenthood quite late in our lives. 56 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,000 'I had my little boy Zeph at the age of 40, 57 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,120 'then I was desperate for him to have siblings, 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,840 'but time was clocking on. 59 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,800 'I had to go down the IVF route 60 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,800 'to fall pregnant with Zeph's twin sisters, 61 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,840 'who were eventually born three years later.' 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,040 "There was once a herd of elephants, elephants young, elephants old, 63 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,880 "elephants tall or fat or thin." 64 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,640 No, that one's not Elmer... 65 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:34,120 For me, the most painful thing of it all was thinking of my children. 66 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,040 The thought about leaving your children behind, 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,880 you know, the most joyful thing about motherhood 68 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:41,720 is watching them develop. 69 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,080 And my children are at these gorgeous ages 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,560 where every day is a little landmark. 71 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,040 One of my little girls is very shy 72 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,400 and she overcomes something at school, 73 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,000 and you feel every moment with her, 74 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,040 when she puts her hand up, when she's done it against her instinct. 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Ooh, and I got my highest test in English. 76 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,040 'My little boy Zeph, he's a bit cheeky, which we love. 77 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,280 'And Xanthe's this chattery little thing.' 78 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,480 And you think, "Are you ever gonna stop talking?" 79 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:15,920 Every day, you have one of those gorgeous moments with them 80 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,920 when they are little. 81 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,120 And that makes a cancer diagnosis... 82 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:25,360 For me, it just made it... just, whoa, so, so sad. 83 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,120 When I told Gerry, he was absolutely devastated, 84 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,880 but he's the most supportive human being. 85 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:39,600 And he said, "We'll get through it, we'll look after the kids, 86 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,480 "and you're fit and you're healthy, 87 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,360 "and we'll do everything to get you through it." 88 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:55,800 We didn't quite know how to tell the kids, and what to tell the kids. 89 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,800 We didn't wanna say, "Mummy's gonna die", 90 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,200 but I also didn't wanna lie to them. 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,400 We decided that the best thing to do 92 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,000 was to take them for a walk around the garden, 93 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 because that's where they feel comfortable and happy. 94 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,560 And just to be honest and say, "Mummy's not very well", 95 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,960 and mention the "cancer" word. 96 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,760 And I remember my little girl, and I'm going to try not to cry, 97 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,200 said, "Can I still hug you?" 98 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,560 And I was like, "Yes, of course you can still hug me," 99 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,640 "and I want you to hug me tighter when this has happened." 100 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,360 No, actually, I can't not cry when I... when I think about that. 101 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,120 One of the hardest things I've gone through in my life 102 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:38,320 is to tell my children that I've got cancer. 103 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,640 Yeah. 104 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,560 Yep, that's great, and if you stay on the scales 105 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,520 but turn around and face the window. OK. 106 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,760 Once you've got your cancer diagnosis 107 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,160 and they've worked out what type of cancer it is, 108 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,120 then it's, "Right, the treatment programme, 109 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,320 "this is what we can do, this is what we have to do, 110 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,800 "when can you do it, when can you have the operation?" 111 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,920 And you can drink sips of water only until 6am. OK. 112 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,160 I was told that, "You have to have a mastectomy, 113 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,960 "we're going to have to remove your breast, 114 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,840 "take away all the breast tissue, 115 00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:20,480 "and we might be able to save your skin and your nipple." 116 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:21,960 Erm... 117 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:27,640 Pfft, and then that word, "amputation" of your breast, 118 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,240 it's shocking, it's absolutely shocking. 119 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,960 We tend to use an anatomical teardrop-shaped silicone prosthesis. 120 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,280 I was told that it would be possible for me 121 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,440 to have reconstruction at the same time as my mastectomy. 122 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,640 Because of the type of cancer that I have, 123 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,320 as long as the tumour could be removed safely. 124 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,320 I was told, "The tumour is probably contained, 125 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,520 "we'll be able to take it out in one, hopefully, 126 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,560 "we don't know if it's spread to your lymph nodes, 127 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,600 "we'll take out a lymph or lymph nodes 128 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,440 "and we'll see if it's spread anywhere else." 129 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Erm, silicone, silicone implant... 130 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,880 What's that's gonna look like? How's that gonna feel? 131 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,920 How-how am I going to feel with a silicone implant inside my body? 132 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,280 And then you're like... SHE MOUTHS 133 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,800 "Wow!" 134 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:19,560 You really need to take six weeks off from doing anything. 135 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,880 This is a big operation, so just gently, gently. 136 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:24,280 Right. 137 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,440 You just don't have any idea 138 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:36,200 of how this is all going to unravel. 139 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,520 You're really in the dark 140 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,640 about how you're going to feel emotionally and physically. 141 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,360 You know, you think about chemotherapy, 142 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,400 you think about losing parts of your body, 143 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,280 "Has the cancer spread?" 144 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,040 Sorry, it might feel a bit cold. 145 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:59,240 For somebody who's very much in control of their lives, 146 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,000 you feel alone and helpless. 147 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,360 Boo! Hello. 148 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,960 It's Granny! 149 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,880 Would you like those? Because if you don't, I'll take them back. 150 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,760 Yes, please. No? 151 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:21,160 Apples! Yeah. Would you like an apple? 152 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,320 I didn't tell my mum for a long time. 153 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,480 My mum had bowel cancer, my dad had prostate cancer, 154 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,280 I knew if I just told her, "Look, I've been for this biopsy, 155 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,160 "and it's some sort of cancer, and they don't know what yet", 156 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,120 that, to my mum, that's just like a death sentence 157 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,160 because her mind would go... 158 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,360 First of all, she'd want to come and live with me straightaway 159 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,240 and come to every single appointment. 160 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,880 Which is lovely, this isn't a bad thing. 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,600 But I, for her, for her own health... 162 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,480 I mean, she's in her 80s, she's had her own stuff going on. 163 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,360 I've been here since last Friday. 164 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,280 Can't get rid of her. No. 165 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,080 They didn't want me to come to start with, 166 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,080 and I've come because... 167 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,440 Because I couldn't stay away any longer. 168 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,840 PRODUCER: What was Julia like as a child? 169 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,160 A nuisance. 170 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,080 SHE CHUCKLES 171 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,160 No, she had a terrible habit 172 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:33,040 of putting the record players, in those days, they were, 173 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:37,680 full-blast Blondie, and going out. 174 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:39,480 And me having a headache 175 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,440 and wondering what was the matter with me, 176 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:46,320 and it was Julia having left me with Blondie blaring out. 177 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,440 She was very affectionate. 178 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,120 And she was very funny in a nice way. 179 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:55,680 How are you feeling 180 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,640 about everything that's going on with Julia at the moment? 181 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,160 It's like having it all over again, to be honest. 182 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,680 And I do believe that the worst thing is now waiting. 183 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,720 I-I'm looking forward to recovery 184 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,960 and, you know, what's going to happen when you recover. 185 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,120 Well, we don't know. 186 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,680 You have to stop working. 187 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:25,960 Not... I'm saying that, but I-I-I didn't want... 188 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,000 You've got to stop rushing about. 189 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,200 It's very important to prepare your body for what's going to happen. 190 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,960 JULIA CHUCKLES 191 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:36,640 Aw. 192 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,200 Oh. 193 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:46,880 When she told us she had been diagnosed, I was shell-shocked. 194 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:52,400 I can't tell you how I felt, because I didn't even know myself. 195 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,280 I still don't know. 196 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Other than if someone had said, 197 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:01,920 "Can you take it away from her and you can have it?", 198 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,040 I'd have said yes. 199 00:11:05,560 --> 00:11:09,560 Of course, it did help that she, Julia, 200 00:11:09,560 --> 00:11:13,280 tackled it head-on by coming to see us. 201 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,080 We can't put ourselves in those shoes, 202 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,360 we don't know just when she's feeling scared, 203 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,240 particularly vulnerable. 204 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,760 And all you can do is be there 205 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,400 and provide, you know, whatever you can. 206 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,200 EMMA BARNETT: 'In her first broadcast interview, 207 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,840 'Julia joins me now. Julia, good morning.' 208 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,520 'Morning, Emma. Good morning, all the Woman's Hour listeners.' 209 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,600 'You spoke in print to the Mail On Sunday journalist, 210 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,960 'and I know that the reason you've come onto that is because...' 211 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,720 Who was it who said this? 212 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,080 "My daughter said, 'Mummy can I still hug you? 213 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,720 "and I said, 'Yes, my darling, 214 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,920 "'I need your hugs more now than ever.'" 215 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Xanthe. Me. 216 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,520 'I didn't think I really had a choice about going public. 217 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:11,800 'I wanted just to give an open and honest account 218 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,680 'of what I was going through.' 219 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:16,880 The statistic is one in seven women 220 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,440 will get breast cancer in their lifetime, 221 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,400 and, obviously, it is... 222 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,640 It is the club that nobody wants to be a member of. 223 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:28,680 How does it feel to become a member of that club? 224 00:12:34,560 --> 00:12:39,040 Er... I-I suppose, like most members of this exclusive club, 225 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,000 I didn't think I'd get in. 226 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,320 It's ten days to go now until my op. 227 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,320 And it feels like... 228 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:02,080 Erm, it feels like I'm part of some really bad gameshow. 229 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,160 Like the Hunger Games or something. 230 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:16,480 Even though this op is hopefully going to get rid of the cancer, 231 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,400 and, fingers crossed, it hasn't spread anywhere else, 232 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,880 and it's going to save me, hopefully... 233 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,080 SHE SNIFFS 234 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,560 I find my hand moving to my boob, 235 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,720 just, just holding, holding it. 236 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:39,200 And knowing that it's not going to feel the same 237 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,720 and be the same again. 238 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:49,120 I feel really scared and shocked and frightened, and... 239 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,120 ..loss. 240 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,440 Right, where do you want me, love? 241 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,160 If you can squeeze in here. I can do that. 242 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,080 'Today is the last day of filming before my op. 243 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,560 'I've been making a series of films for This Morning 244 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:23,680 'about beautiful woodlands, which is a bit of a passion project. 245 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,080 'It's a lovely thing to take to the This Morning audience 246 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,280 'because it's quite new.' 247 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,760 And how do you feel about it being the last day of work for a while? 248 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,920 Yeah, I feel a bit weird about that, obviously. 249 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,560 It's gonna be quite strange. 250 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,760 I don't wanna break down and come across as a blubbering idiot. 251 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,000 What's happening today, anything special? 252 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,160 Not really. 253 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:46,800 No tests today? Only one. 254 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:47,880 All right, my love, OK. 255 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,840 Have a good day, and I'll see you when I get back. 256 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,600 Bye. I'll be here. All right, my love. 257 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,480 Go, go, off you go. Bye. Bye-bye. 258 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,560 When you announce to the wider world that you have cancer, 259 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:07,600 it instantly puts you in a vulnerable position. 260 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,320 So, basically, at the top of the show... Yes. 261 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,840 ..when we're talking about the forest VTs that you've shot... 262 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,680 And then there might be question just at the end, to ask how you are. 263 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,480 Yeah. Is that OK? Yeah, perfect. 264 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,800 If you asked ten people what they thought about Julia, 265 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,240 the five that think I'm really annoying and brash, 266 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,400 and just, you know, all of that stuff, we'll get rid of those. 267 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,800 But the others will go, 268 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:38,000 "Positive, loud, energetic, determined." 269 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,560 But not "vulnerable, scared", 270 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,360 Tho-those would not be... "Soft." 271 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,120 Those would probably not be some of the adjectives 272 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,680 that would be used to describe me. 273 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,320 How are you, sweetheart? All right, you? 274 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:53,920 Good, yeah. 275 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,960 Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah. 276 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,920 Could... Could be better. 277 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:01,760 I promised myself today as well, 278 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,040 "Don't cry on live TV, don't cry on live TV!" 279 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,440 You're not used to being a person that people feel sorry for, are you? 280 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,800 No, no. I'm not used to that, I suppose. 281 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:22,040 Even to my family, I don't really like to show that side. 282 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,240 Thank you. Morning, guys. 283 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:26,960 Hello, my love. How are you? 284 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,480 I know! Get your bacon sarnie in. I'm fine, thank you. 285 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,320 Yeah, I'm good. I'm all right. 286 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,080 Yes, perfect. Yeah, a bit of a highlight, tick. 287 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,560 Being up the trees, high up the tree, remember I was high. 288 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,560 Definitely, and I'll say, "Yes, 289 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,320 "and it's been a pleasure to make these." 290 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,680 Thank you, my love. Perfect, thank you. 291 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,040 People are trying to show you that they care, 292 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,560 and that's a lovely thing, 293 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,600 but it does make me feel a little bit sad. 294 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,400 You are, erm... You are very happy here. 295 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,600 It's very calming for you, you love it. 296 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,800 And we all go through times in our lives 297 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,480 when we need something a little bit calming. Yeah. 298 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,800 Which is what you do right now. How are you feeling? 299 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,440 I feel all right, actually, thank you. 300 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:16,600 I mean, people might know, 301 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:18,800 I've been open about my breast cancer diagnosis. 302 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,000 You got that call whilst you were doing the films for us? 303 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,360 Yes, I wanted to finish these series of films for you 304 00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:26,320 because they're really important to me, 305 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,760 and I wanted people to feel the love that I do for nature. 306 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,320 This is the last live TV you're doing before op, isn't it? 307 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:32,840 This is my last live TV before the op, 308 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,320 so I will see you on the other side. 309 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,120 Yeah, we're sending big, big hugs. 310 00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:37,880 Oh, we send you so much love, we really do. 311 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,680 And thank you, beautiful films. Thank you so much. Thank you. 312 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,800 'You talk about things in a different way 313 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,680 'when you're being interviewed and when you're on camera and stuff.' 314 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:48,920 And you say things that... 315 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,080 It's almost as if I'm talking about somebody else, 316 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,800 and I'm looking at that other person 317 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,640 and feeling sorry for that other person... 318 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,080 And that other person is me. 319 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,840 So it's kind of a weird thing to... A weird place to be in. 320 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,520 It's three nights before my operation now, 321 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,880 and I started self-isolating this morning, 322 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,880 so I took all my kids to school, waved goodbye at the gates... 323 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:22,760 ..and then we all knew collectively 324 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:27,320 that I wouldn't be able to hug them again until after my operation. 325 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,400 It's an extra layer of complication 326 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,960 that really makes this horrible process 327 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,160 even shittier, if that's possible. 328 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,160 SHE EXHALES 329 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,680 And I don't mind saying... 330 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:44,840 that I'm... scared now. 331 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,520 And... 332 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:54,000 now it's real dread that I'm feeling. 333 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,160 Real dread. 334 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,240 And you hope it's a dream, and you're wrong, and... 335 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,280 ..this isn't what you're going to go through. But it is. 336 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,720 Yeah, it's not the eighth. 337 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,440 That's normally where I go for imaging, the eighth floor. 338 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,000 And do you walk? Of course I do. 339 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,200 Oh, don't be ridiculous. A little bit of exercise. 340 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,080 I always take the stairs, never the lift. 341 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,440 Even for eight floors? Yeah. Fool. 342 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,240 I've always been the big sis, 343 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,640 and I've always tried to be there for her 344 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,480 and protect her in the best way that I can. 345 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,360 And that isn't always easy, because she can be a diva 346 00:19:39,360 --> 00:19:44,280 and, like you know, she can throw her toys out the pram, as can I. 347 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,120 But I've always had her back. 348 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,680 Oh, what's the date today? 7th? It's the 7th. 349 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,440 'We've been joined at the hip. 350 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,040 'I mean, she came to London when she was 17 and I was 27, 351 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,920 'cos there's a ten-year age gap between us, 352 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,520 'so I've always been the bigger sister.' 353 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,880 And I've watched her 354 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,640 get knocked back, knocked back, knocked back when she was little. 355 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,840 And she was able to get up, she'd dust herself down, 356 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,120 get up, and start all over again. 357 00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:13,680 And she'll do the same now, I'm absolutely sure. 358 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,640 She's doing it, she is doing it. 359 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,520 So, you know, and I'm right by her side while she is. 360 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,880 We're going to do a very small injection of a radioactive tracer, 361 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:28,080 just under the skin, and it sounds quite frightening, 362 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:30,280 but it's a very small amount of radiation. 363 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,160 And the body will start to remove it from where we've injected, 364 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,520 just up through your lymphatic channels. 365 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,240 So, the point for that is that tomorrow, during your surgery, 366 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,760 they want to be able to quickly find the lymph node 367 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:43,240 that's closest to the nipple that it's been draining to. 368 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,280 Just so that they can quickly find it. 369 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,720 Right. OK? OK. 370 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,880 Right, where do I lie? So, sitting about here, 371 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,480 head on the pillow, please, feet up this end, on your back. 372 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,880 OK, so, it's under the skin now. 373 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,360 OK, a bit of pressure. 374 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,320 Are you all right? 375 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,080 All done. 376 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,400 Thank you. You're welcome. 377 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,120 We'll move you in under the camera, 378 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,840 and everyone can stay in the room, all right? 379 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,400 'Just felt suddenly overwhelmed then, when she exposed my breast. 380 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,200 'It just erm... Just... 381 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,240 'I thought, "That's what's gonna happen tomorrow morning."' 382 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:50,000 'This is so painful for me to see. 383 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,880 'We've never, ever had anything like this.' 384 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,320 SOBBING: It's not fair. It's just not fair. 385 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,280 It should be me that, you know... 386 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,920 I'm the one that drinks and does all the wrong things, not her. 387 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,320 So, I'm gonna do a little dot now. Yeah. 388 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,840 You're doing really well. 389 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,840 SHE SIGHS 390 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,280 I just wish it was me, I really do wish it was me. 391 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,240 She's got little children, you know... 392 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,320 My son's 23, he's... you know, a great lad, 393 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,120 he's on his journey, he's on his way in life. 394 00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,240 She's got little ones, you know? 395 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,280 How are you doing? Yeah... 396 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:01,800 Yeah, you know. 397 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,360 It's just a bit more emotional than I thought it would be. 398 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,160 Erm... 399 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,600 It's... It's just my last day of... 400 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,320 ..just being me, 401 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,200 and having my full body and having all my boobs and... 402 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,760 Just, when I lay down then and she just exposed my breast... 403 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,000 I'm not shy, it's not about... 404 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,240 It's not sort of about body image or... It's just, erm... 405 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,480 I just thought when she did it and she exposed my breast, 406 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,240 and then she started to touch around that area, 407 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,360 I just thought, "That's what's going to be happening tomorrow morning." 408 00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:39,320 You know, there's going to be a surgeon around my breast, 409 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,560 chopping it open, 410 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,680 and taking it away. 411 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,400 Taking the cancer out, but... just changing me forever. 412 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,280 So, my surgeon's been in, he's marked up my body. 413 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,680 So you feel like you've been tattooed a bit. 414 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,400 He explained that he just wants to get the symmetry right, 415 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,160 and, obviously, when you lie down, everything looks different. 416 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,040 So he measured me again, he took photographs again, 417 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,280 he checked where my mark from yesterday's procedure was. 418 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,840 Because that's where they'll remove the lymph node from, there. 419 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,680 And, yeah, it's a weird process sort of being marked up. 420 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,920 You know, you do feel a bit like a slab of meat. 421 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,040 I've been... I've been pretty strong today. 422 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,440 I don't think I've... I don't know if I've cried yet today, 423 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,440 and I've cried most days while this has been going on. 424 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,560 But today, I just... I do, I'm a little bit, a little bit... 425 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,720 Just because it's a bit overwhelming, the whole thing. 426 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,000 But for all the women who have gone through this, 427 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,000 and for all the women who are going to go through this, 428 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,880 this is the best possible thing. 429 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,920 And I know that, you know, this is to get me through to the other side. 430 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,000 So, yeah. It's good. 431 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,920 You've got this, you'll be fine. See you later. 432 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,280 I'll see you on the other side. 433 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:13,880 See you on the other side, everybody. 434 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,840 I'm... I'm back at home, and I've had a little, a little nap. 435 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,160 And my girls have come home from school. 436 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,360 And I'm going to surprise them with cuddles on the bed. 437 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,280 This is the longest time that I've ever gone without seeing them, 438 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,720 because we didn't video-call while I was in hospital 439 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,800 because I didn't want to scare them. 440 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,320 Mummy! 441 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,800 Yah! 442 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,440 Careful, my loves. 443 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,040 Careful, gently. 444 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,440 Are you crying? 445 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,320 Yes, I'm crying, but please can I have a cuddle? 446 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,120 Yeah. 447 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,280 I can see a bit. You can see it. 448 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,200 But look, I've got to wear this. 449 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,360 'One of the last things I did before the operation 450 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,520 'was to say goodbye to my left boob. 451 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:16,640 'I just said, 452 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,800 ' "Thank you for everything we've been through together." 453 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,120 'You know, I've breastfed my children from both of my breasts. 454 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,240 'And I see them on my breasts. 455 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,960 'And I've, you know, jumped into the sea, 456 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,960 'and been running, and walking up mountains, 457 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,160 'and, you know, my boobs have been there for me.' 458 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,720 And I've got little boobs, and they're small 459 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,960 and, up until now, were pretty perfectly formed. 460 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:47,160 And then I just remember the anaesthetist explaining, 461 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,120 "This will happen." 462 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,840 And then there was another nurse on the other side of me, 463 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,320 and she said, "That's it, you're going to fall asleep in a minute. 464 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,320 "Just think happy thoughts." And I remember starting to cry. 465 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,880 Because I couldn't feel happy thoughts because I thought, 466 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,080 "I'm just about to go in and have my boob cut off", 467 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,120 so that was my last thing, was this... 468 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:09,960 And I just remember the feeling of the tears going down, 469 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:11,240 and then I fell asleep. 470 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,120 And then I woke up, and the op had been done. 471 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,440 I can't sleep very well. 472 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,640 SHE YAWNS 473 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:31,720 It doesn't seem to matter what time you go to bed, 474 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,440 or how tired you are. 475 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,680 3am seems to be the witching hour. 476 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,720 Just aching, really. 477 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,920 It's like a dull ache, it's nothing too bad. 478 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:50,760 It's just enough to make you uncomfortable and wake you up. 479 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,400 I haven't wanted to look at my breast 480 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,600 while it was still very angry and sore. 481 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,400 Of course, look, I've showered 482 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,600 and I've caught a glimpse of this and that, 483 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,360 but I haven't stood front-on in a mirror, 484 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,960 because I wanted it to be when I felt emotionally ready 485 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:33,400 and when I felt that, physically, I had had some time to heal. 486 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,600 SHE EXHALES 487 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,040 There we go. 488 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,280 That's my new boob. 489 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,120 OK, well... 490 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,240 It looks like a boob. 491 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,920 It just looks like a big, lumpy boob. 492 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,360 I can't feel that at all. 493 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,640 It might come back one day, the sensation. 494 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,920 But strangely, I can't feel my fingertips at all. 495 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,840 That's where the silicone is, you can see the ripple there. 496 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,080 It looks like a plasticine boob at the moment. 497 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,440 It's gonna be... 498 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,480 It's going to take a bit of getting used to. 499 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,560 How much do I love you? So much! 500 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,680 So much! 501 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,600 Be brave, be strong, be kind. 502 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,280 Yeah? Have a wonderful playdate, as well. 503 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,160 And I'll see you when I get back. 504 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880 I've put this day out of my mind, 505 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,840 and all I've concentrated on is getting through the operation, 506 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,600 surviving the operation, getting through the mastectomy, 507 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,800 handling my pain, getting home. 508 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,160 And I haven't focused on today until this morning. 509 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,400 And today, I just feel very, very nervous, 510 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,600 and just wanna get it done 511 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,760 and find out if the cancer has spread 512 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,600 and what the next step is. 513 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,520 Today is about the results of the pathology, all right? 514 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,680 The area of involvement within the breasts 515 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,000 was around 5 to 6cm. 516 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,120 All right. All right? 517 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560 And indeed, the pathology shows that the area, 518 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,240 it's completely excised, which is good news. 519 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,480 We wouldn't really be looking down the route 520 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,640 of any invasive treatment, like chemotherapy. 521 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,920 OK. That's fantastic. Thank you. 522 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,720 And because it's completely removed and denotes a negative, 523 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,240 you wouldn't need any radiotherapy either. 524 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,720 OK? So the only thing I would say is that there was a small area 525 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,960 of potential what's called "microinvasion". 526 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,920 Microinvasion involves a small number of cells only, 527 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,040 spilling into the substance of the breast itself. 528 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,760 The only thing that might be worth considering is to use a drug 529 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,680 that is antiestrogenic, such as tamoxifen, 530 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,080 in a preventative manner. 531 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,600 However, with all drugs, there is a balance of risks. 532 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,040 The most common is flushing and sweating. 533 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,440 It can sometimes aggravate endometriosis. 534 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,640 OK. Rarely, it can also induce tumours 535 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,680 within the lining of the womb... Cancerous tumours? 536 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,840 That's right, and endometrial cancer. 537 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,800 Tamoxifen can also cause clots. 538 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,400 So, a little bit of thinking to do. A little bit of thinking to do, 539 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,040 but, you know, it has to be kind of taken in the context 540 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,440 of balances and benefits versus risks. 541 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,160 OK. All right, thank you. 542 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,240 'I wish I could say to you, "I've had my mastectomy, 543 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,080 ' "and the prognosis is really good, 544 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,280 ' "and I can just get on with my life now." ' 545 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,080 'But the reality is there is a chance 546 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,160 'of that breast cancer coming back.' 547 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,520 'The re-occurrence risk, 548 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,680 'that is the thing now that hangs over me, 549 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,200 'so I've thrown myself 550 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,960 'into the research about my kind of cancer.' 551 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:29,240 So I'm peeing on sticks and spitting into tubes 552 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,960 and having bloods and speaking to as many people as I can 553 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,040 about everything related. 554 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,400 'Hey there.' Hi, Gareth. Hello. How are you? 555 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,840 'I'm good, I'm good.' 556 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,280 I've done this state-of-the-art test, 557 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,040 which is called a "SNPs test". 558 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,320 SNPs is the short term, I won't give you the big, long word. 559 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,080 But we all get handed down common variants from our parents, 560 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,480 and it has a look at those common variants, 561 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,680 and it can tell you if you've got some bad ones in there, 562 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,880 which could increase your chances of breast cancer, 563 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,600 or, actually, if you've got good ones. 564 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,000 So I wanted to find out 565 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,920 what my risk of re-occurrence is in cold hard facts. 566 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,280 'OK, Julia. 567 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,000 'So, your risks are substantially increased, 568 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,280 'but compared to the average woman with breast cancer, 569 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,240 'you're just above the 13% average.' 570 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,400 OK. 'You're not high-risk.' 571 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,240 Right, OK, and that's... 572 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,600 'At high risk, you would need to be at least double population 573 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,040 'to think about surgery for the other side.' 574 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:26,040 Right. 575 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,520 Now, I personally think that that test, 576 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:30,880 it should be available on the NHS 577 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,760 because it would save so much time and money in future treatment. 578 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,320 What if I told you that I will... 579 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,560 radically change my lifestyle, turnaround my diet? 580 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,400 'Because you are already pretty healthy, 581 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,640 'being a bit more healthy or pushing the extremes of healthiness 582 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,000 'is probably not gonna make a massive difference for you.' 583 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:58,960 The most important thing to me is not to get cancer again. 584 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,960 'The period of time when cancer comes back is five years, 585 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,200 'mostly, within a five-year period...' 586 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:12,760 '..and my children are ten and six. They're babies!' 587 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,400 So five years is nothing in their lives, you know, I... 588 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,760 I need to live for more than five years. 589 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,560 'When people talk about the recovery from breast cancer, 590 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,760 'and, "Oh, the treatment is good now. 591 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,160 ' "The survival rates are very good", 592 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,520 'I don't think there's enough emphasis 593 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,280 'on what recovery is, 594 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,560 'on what handling breast cancer is all about. 595 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,080 'I'm trying to learn how to handle that.' 596 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:52,080 Well, welcome to Maggie's. Thank you very much. 597 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:53,880 I'm the clinical psychologist here. 598 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,840 First of all, I realise I have a lot to process... 599 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,880 Yes. ..and a lot to really understand. 600 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,680 Now I am post-mastectomy, I've got to love my new breast, 601 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,280 I've got to get myself physically fit again, 602 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:16,560 and I really want to know how to deal with the future. 603 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,720 But there's always this question mark 604 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,360 with cancer of re-occurrence. 605 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,600 Is that, then, one of the key stages that you would say 606 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,240 you are at now in your cancer journey? 607 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:31,880 It's still very fresh as well, and coming to terms with it all. 608 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:37,600 It's... Your body and your life changes in just a few weeks, 609 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:42,040 so I sit here as a new person, with a new bit. 610 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,480 Yeah. ..and I've lost a bit of me as well. 611 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,120 And then I do also think 612 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,320 about other ladies, who are going through this, 613 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,200 who have had worse diagnoses than me, 614 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,160 or a more aggressive cancer than me... 615 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,120 I see. ..and that also makes me sad 616 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,360 because I feel like I should be very grateful for where I am, 617 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,920 and what my cancer experience is. OK, yeah. 618 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,320 Yeah. 619 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,880 And for me, that's why I think 620 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,520 the time to process something like this is so important, 621 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,160 and, indeed, the gratitude is there. 622 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,600 But that still doesn't mean that you can't feel, 623 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,600 or you wouldn't feel the sadness, the anger... 624 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,920 ..the loss, because, as you know, 625 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,600 cancer has kind of crashed into your life, actually, 626 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,960 and because of that, it brings a lot of stuff. 627 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,920 And everybody around me. 628 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,600 You know, my family, and my partner, and my parents, 629 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,480 and my friends, and my loved ones. It's... It's... 630 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,080 It's crashed into all their lives as well. 631 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:54,520 TEARFULLY: And I feel sad 632 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,640 that I've sort of brought this into their lives. 633 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,800 "So, the Feelings Tree is a way 634 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:11,800 "of showing your emotions without talking. 635 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,600 "Each leaf has an emotion written on it. 636 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:18,800 "Stick on an emotion you're feeling using the glue dots." 637 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,160 What does this one mean? 638 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,000 Pink spots are "a little bit angry on the inside". 639 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,560 Sad. Do you want "sad"? 640 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,480 Do you want a sad one? Sad. 641 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,920 That's... It's gonna upset Mum. No, it won't upset me, sweetheart. 642 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,120 HUSHED: You know, not everybody is... 643 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,000 Not everybody is chatty-chatty, and tells everybody everything, 644 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,120 and that's fine, that's OK. 645 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,720 But if you are really worried or you want to talk about something, 646 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:54,200 it's always better to do that, especially with somebody you trust. 647 00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:57,240 Yeah? Yeah. 648 00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:59,000 Yeah, you can always tell me. 649 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,960 'I hate it. I think it's one of the things that I hate most 650 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,680 'about this whole experience,' 651 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,920 is... the impact that it has on everybody. 652 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,160 You know, the sort of... the shrapnel effect. 653 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,880 Everybody goes through it with you, and everybody suffers, 654 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,160 and that's... that's also really unfair. 655 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,560 Mum, can I have a guppy fish? 656 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,520 We'll see. We'll see. 657 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,160 Ooh, goldfish. Goldfish! 658 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,320 Hands up if you think you're responsible enough 659 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:43,720 to get a goldfish. 660 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:45,200 I think... CHILDREN SCREAM 661 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,080 OK, we can choose what fish we want. 662 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,480 Right side or on that side? 663 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,320 That's the... That is... This is the side. 664 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,400 This is the sore side. Have you tingled yet? 665 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,760 I have tingled today, yes. 666 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,440 I got a little tingle. When? 667 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,520 Uh, this morning, when I was doing exercises, I tingled, 668 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,720 and when I was in bed, I tingled. So that's good. 669 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,240 That means the feeling is coming, the sensation is coming. 670 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:11,680 'There can't be a parent in the world, 671 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,200 'who doesn't worry about the impact of being ill. 672 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,720 'You know, everybody's been a bit sad. 673 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:21,360 'There have been lots of tears and lots of emotions. 674 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,600 'There is this roller-coaster that you go along. 675 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,120 'It would be impossible for them not to pick up on that.' 676 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,720 My little boy, I was reading to him in bed, 677 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:34,680 and he just, out of nowhere, said, 678 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,280 "Is it... Is it contagious, Mummy, like COVID, cancer?" 679 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,920 And I went, "No, it's not, sweetheart, 680 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,280 "it's this different thing." 681 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,880 So he'd obviously been thinking about it. 682 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,080 'We're all going through this together, 683 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,040 'and it's hard to know, as a parent, 684 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,240 'if you're getting it right with your children, 685 00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:56,160 'and if you're talking to them about cancer in the right way. 686 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,400 'I mean, what is the right way?' 687 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,920 Oh, right, we're going to Greenwich, please. 688 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,920 This is exciting. Are you looking forward to this, Zeph? Mm-hm. 689 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,000 Do you remember what we're going to do today? No. 690 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,000 So, we're going to go and meet some other families... Yeah. 691 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,640 ..whose mummies... I don't know if it's mummies and daddies 692 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,640 or just mummies, who have also had cancer. 693 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,760 Right now have cancer? Yeah. Oh! 694 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,240 We're going to learn about what it is, and the treatments, 695 00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,920 and also what it's like for you guys, 696 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,640 what it's like for the family, what it's like for the children... 697 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,160 Yeah. ..when that happens. 698 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,040 Hello! 699 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,280 So, my name is Caroline, 700 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:44,240 and we're going to be doing a show about cancer. 701 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,680 Hello, team! Nice to see you. Thank goodness you came. 702 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,240 Because Mavis has not been feeling very well, 703 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:59,080 and her doctor sent her to us... 704 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,000 ..because she's had a little bit of a pain in her kidney, 705 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,200 so we're going to ask our radiologist to step up... 706 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:09,720 Go on, Zeph. 707 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,960 Come on, here we go. Fabulous. 708 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,200 LAUGHTER 709 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,360 OK, I think you made the right decision. 710 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,000 So, I'm going to ask... 711 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,400 'This is never a lesson 712 00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,760 'that you want to have to teach your children, about cancer. 713 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,240 'That's not something any of us, as parents, want to do.' 714 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,720 It's good, isn't it? 715 00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:38,320 It's really good for them. Really good! 716 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,520 Really good way of explaining it all. 717 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,040 Have you... So, I've had, erm... 718 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:44,520 I've had a mastectomy. 719 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,480 I've got an oestrogen-positive... I had an oestrogen-positive cancer, 720 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,200 but it was quite contained, so now it's... 721 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,640 sort of psychologically working out what to do about preventative, 722 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,040 going on something, going on a tamoxifen, or that kind of drug, 723 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,760 and the impact that it would have on me. 724 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,000 So I'm doing lots of, erm, tests and hormones 725 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,440 and genetics, and all of that stuff to... 726 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,880 And some of my family have said, "Why are you doing that? 727 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,800 "Why don't you just sort of, like, get on now?" 728 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,360 And, no, I need to know. 729 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,680 And even if the, yeah, the treatment is a psychological... 730 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:14,560 Yeah. It's a lot of that. 731 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,560 That keeps going for a long time, yeah. 732 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,880 Cos we've... I've, erm... 733 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,160 I was diagnosed six years ago. 734 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:26,280 Right. Yes, I've read a little bit about that. Stage 4 cancer. 735 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:28,880 Yeah, so we'll go to the oncologist, and it will be like, 736 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,840 "Oh, amazing news, everything's fine." 737 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,560 And then, three months later, it's like, 738 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,720 "Oh, it's actually... No, it's not good news. 739 00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:35,800 "We've got to change." 740 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,240 And it's all those emotions... Yeah. 741 00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:40,120 ..that change with it all the time. 742 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,520 Do you still talk to them about your treatments and stuff, 743 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,560 or is it, is it now just like an everyday living? 744 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,640 Etienne, do you think 745 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,880 we talk about chemotherapy and things at home? 746 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,160 Sometimes. When things change? 747 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,680 Hm... 748 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:57,600 Yeah, sometimes, you give us news 749 00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,400 about what has happened to your chemotherapy, or, like... 750 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,000 ..what will happen, or what you hope is gonna happen. 751 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,160 And how do you feel when your mummy tells you something about that? 752 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,360 Er, well, sometimes, it's bad news, 753 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,120 which is not a very pleasant feeling... 754 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:15,160 But sometimes it's good news. 755 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:17,600 ..but when she said the cancer was getting smaller, 756 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,160 it was a good feeling. 757 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:26,600 No way! 758 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,480 My own scientist glasses! SHE LAUGHS 759 00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,440 Good, Dr Zeph! 760 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,280 'For everybody, it's very uncharted territory. 761 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,960 'How is this period of their lives going to affect them 762 00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,800 'in five years' time, in ten years' time?' 763 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,800 I can't, we can't answer that question right now. 764 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,760 Erm, and I hope we've handled it pretty well, 765 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,400 and I hope I'm still alive in ten years 766 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,320 to ask them a question, but... 767 00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,080 erm, you just do the best that you can. 768 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,360 How was he when you were going through it all? 769 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,640 Erm, he didn't really understand too, too much of what was happening. 770 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,360 I wasn't too... way too open about it. 771 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,160 But, I mean, he could tell things were a bit different with me. 772 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,600 Did it hurt? I mean, yeah, I was in pain. 773 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,080 You know, I've got a medicine that's attacking 774 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,320 all my good cells and bad cells, so yeah. 775 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,280 What's the prognosis for you, what did they say? 776 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,840 Or do you try not to think about it? I try not to think about that 777 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,920 because, initially, they did say that the drugs is 21 months, etc, 778 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,520 but I surpassed that. So I, for me, I'm like, 779 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,400 "Well, I'm gonna just keep on going as the medicine keeps on working", 780 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,960 and I keep a positive mindset, and, you know, like, I'm here. 781 00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,920 I'm living with secondary, but I'm still here... Yeah. 782 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,200 ..and, you know, I will keep going, and, hopefully, you know, 783 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,400 live a more fulfilling... and more years to come. 784 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,880 'There's still a little bit of disbelief that I'm in that room 785 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,480 'with those mums and those parents...' 786 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:53,920 ..as one of them. 787 00:44:56,720 --> 00:44:58,800 Cancer is a lifetime diagnosis. 788 00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,520 It's not something that is dealt with 789 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,520 once you've had whatever treatment you have. 790 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,920 It is something you then need to learn to deal with 791 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,440 for the rest of your life. 792 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,080 And that's a big learning curve for me. 793 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,160 Xanthe, that's a bracelet. 794 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,440 Watch out. I can't. I'm higher up, I can't. 795 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,600 Wait, could you catch me? 796 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,800 Well, I might break your fall. 797 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,240 'I think cancer's put me in a very different place. 798 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:35,440 'I think it's put me on a different footing.' 799 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,160 It's changed your life. Completely changed my life. 800 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:43,920 Life is incredibly precious. I'm very, very lucky. 801 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,240 I have three amazing children, who I have to live for. 802 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,920 And actually, I'm going to take this very horrible, bad, 803 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:54,920 negative thing that's happened to me, 804 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,040 and I'm gonna turn it into something positive. 805 00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,880 Because the ordinary things and the simple things 806 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,720 and the small things are the most important things. 807 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,400 Come on, Daddy-o. Coming! 808 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,600 Woo-hoo! Whoo! 809 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,520 THEY CHEER 810 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,040 Here you go. No!