1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,000 I have met Putin 25 times. 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:15,880 And for me, Putin is someone that knows how to measure risk. 3 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,520 There is a rationality in his decision-making. 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,360 When I saw him the days before the invasion of Ukraine, 5 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:29,080 I think emotion was stronger than the rational thinking. 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:33,360 Now he's expressing a very, very deep frustration and 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,280 resentment against the West - but not only against the West, 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,000 against the past, against history. 9 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,320 Vladimir Putin has rocked the foundations of European security. 10 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,040 This is the story of Putin's path to war, 11 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,400 how and why he wrong-footed the West 12 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,000 through a decade of clashes... 13 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,240 Putin said, "I can get away with it. 14 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:19,240 "And the Americans won't do anything." 15 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,040 ..told by the leaders who've locked horns with him. 16 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,200 We should have stood up to him then. 17 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:40,880 That is the truth. 18 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,040 And what is happening now in Ukraine is the turning point. 19 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,680 In this episode, how Europe's will was put to the test when, in 2014, 20 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,040 Putin first attacked Ukraine... 21 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,320 I said, "If we don't react now, the Russians will interpret this as 22 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,800 "a carte blanche to do even more". 23 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,680 ..and how, when he spied division in the West, 24 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,640 the Russian President pressed home his advantage. 25 00:02:09,640 --> 00:02:14,080 When I confronted him with the fact that there were Russian troops 26 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:16,600 in Crimea, he said, 27 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,960 "Jose Manuel, these are not the Russian troops. 28 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,800 "If it was really the Armed Forces of Russia," he said to me, 29 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:29,120 "they could take Kyiv in less than two weeks". 30 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,680 Quite extraordinary. 31 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,240 I remember the summit very clearly because actually, strangely enough, 32 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,520 the Foreign Office didn't think it was particularly important. 33 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,280 But President Grybauskaite of Lithuania, 34 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,920 who was holding the conference, said, "I really want you to come. 35 00:03:10,920 --> 00:03:12,000 "This is important." 36 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,000 And I thought, "Well, I'll come". 37 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,800 Eastern Partnership summits were not always attended by everyone. 38 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,960 This time, everybody came, 39 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,880 including the Prime Minister of Britain, 40 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,960 because we knew this would be a historic moment. 41 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:30,960 The climax of the summit was due to be a breakthrough trade deal 42 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,840 between Ukraine and the EU. 43 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,680 If President Viktor Yanukovych signed, it would be his country's 44 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,640 biggest step towards the West since leaving the Soviet Union in 1991. 45 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,880 But after a recent trip to Moscow, rumours had started that 46 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,960 he was feeling the heat from Vladimir Putin. 47 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,320 We were staying at a lovely hotel, 48 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,480 and the reception area was full of people having coffee, chatting. 49 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,400 And as I came through the lobby, I saw Yanukovych. 50 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,760 He's a very tall, very imposing figure. 51 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,960 He saw me, nodded to me, and then, came over. 52 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,440 We exchanged pleasantries - 53 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,720 how was he, what was his journey like - and so on. 54 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:19,040 And after the pleasantries, he says to me, 55 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,920 "You do know that I can't sign the agreement". 56 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,680 He was very embarrassed, 57 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,840 because that agreement had been negotiated for 58 00:04:31,840 --> 00:04:33,800 more than five years. 59 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,280 He tried to present some excuses... 60 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,920 ..but it was very clear that he could not do it 61 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,040 because of Russian pressure. 62 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,600 Whatever was said on the trip to Moscow, Yanukovych clearly 63 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,640 came back, er, having had, er, 64 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,600 really having had the frighteners put on him. 65 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:09,960 I and Merkel, we had been speaking with him just eye-to-eye. 66 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,880 And, because we spoke in Russian, 67 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:15,040 he was more sincere. 68 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:20,240 And he gave us some kind of understanding that he was 69 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,520 under pressure, personally under pressure. 70 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,600 Chancellor Merkel told President Yanukovych very clearly, 71 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,640 "We expect you to agree to it. 72 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,440 "We believe that also, this is what your population believes. 73 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,400 "This is what we have been striving for, for the last years, actually. 74 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,960 "And now, you are backing down. 75 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,240 "This is incomprehensible for us." 76 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,080 There was this popular expression in Ukraine about milking two cows. 77 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:52,040 That Ukraine, to a certain extent, had an opportunity to, sort of, 78 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,200 play both sides off against each other, make sure it was, 79 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,360 kind of, sucking the benefits out of both relationships. 80 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,920 We thought that it's only about financial compensations. 81 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,240 So, we presented him possible solutions, even billions 82 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,760 of financial assistance. 83 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,440 Again, he's not able to sign. 84 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,320 The EU was offering Ukraine huge developmental assistance 85 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:17,960 for the country... 86 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,160 ..but bound up in procedures and spread over many years. 87 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:28,280 Putin was offering cash literally the next day. 88 00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:32,960 There were rumours of trucks with cash being sent from Ukraine 89 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,040 to Yanukovych's accounts in Russia. 90 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,720 I was pretty clear, from everything I heard from Yanukovych, 91 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,200 that he wasn't serious about a partnership with the EU. 92 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,160 I spoke with President Aliyev, from Azerbaijan, who I always 93 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,680 thought was quite a good reader of the situation, 94 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:55,920 and he said, "Oh, it's clear to me, Yanukovych and the Ukrainians want 95 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,840 "a better deal from Moscow, so they're flirting with the EU 96 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:03,120 "to get a better deal from Moscow. But that's what they want." 97 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,520 We said to Yanukovych, "You're the president of your country. 98 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,120 "You were elected on a platform that included the signing of 99 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,880 "this agreement as a centrepiece of your presidency. 100 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,480 "You have chosen, for whatever reasons, not to sign it. 101 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,120 "It's your responsibility now to go home and explain to the people 102 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,240 "who elected you, why you have done that." 103 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,400 In Ukraine's capital, thousands had gathered in 104 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,200 the main square, the Maidan. 105 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:54,880 When Yanukovych refused to sign, the crowds were watching. 106 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,720 I was very clear - EU is the only way for Ukraine. 107 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,280 European Union is the only future for the Ukrainian people, 108 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,360 and we will never go back to the USSR. 109 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Just two weeks later, 110 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,680 as demonstrations continued in the Maidan, 111 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:44,400 Yanukovych returned to Moscow to sign a deal with Putin. 112 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,800 At that time, we really had a good relationship with 113 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,000 our Ukrainian colleagues. 114 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,800 We were supporting Ukraine 115 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,520 from the very beginning, 116 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:11,960 when Soviet Union has disappeared. 117 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,240 That is why the Russian government has allocated a 118 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,960 very serious sum of money. 119 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,000 We hoped that we can make Ukraine stable. 120 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:26,080 Russia would slash gas prices for Ukraine and loan Yanukovych's 121 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,480 government $15 billion. 122 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,280 In the tug-of-war over Ukraine, Putin looked to be winning. 123 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,200 We were always very clear, 124 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,880 if Ukraine signed up to the association agreement with the EU, 125 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:47,120 it would be signing up to a lot of things that Putin wouldn't like. 126 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,640 Like the rule of law, like an independent judiciary, 127 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,000 strengthening democratic institutions. 128 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,520 And that, in turn, raises the risk that people 129 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,760 in Russia are going to say, "Look, we need some of this, as well" - 130 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,640 and that's what Putin doesn't want. 131 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,200 Putin was now facing a popular uprising on Russia's doorstep, 132 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,280 as protesters forced back Yanukovych's riot police 133 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,240 and took over the Maidan. 134 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,360 Through the bitter winter, a stream of Western politicians 135 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,400 and diplomats came to visit - 136 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,960 leaving little doubt whose side they were on. 137 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,120 Hello, how are you? Good to see you. 138 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,160 Arriving there, the thing that I remember most is getting out of 139 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,280 the car and the cold air hitting me. 140 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:56,840 Cos it took your breath away, it was freezing. 141 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,120 This was all kinds of people - younger, older, families, children - 142 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,360 with one message for me, which is, 143 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,200 "We want to sign this agreement". 144 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,560 I was over there to take part at the ministerial meeting, 145 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:10,000 so we were in Kyiv. 146 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,760 And the hotel was not far from Maidan. 147 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:14,800 And I saw lots of diplomats. 148 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,840 And really, I didn't believe that they could intervene so openly 149 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,600 into the political process. 150 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Two months into the protests, 151 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,760 Putin had a rare chance to confront the EU's leaders face-to-face. 152 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,080 Putin was very strong on his position. 153 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,040 So, it was a very tough, tough meeting. 154 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,800 Dealing with Putin, one is very conscious of somebody who has power. 155 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,600 He is not brusque, but not friendly. 156 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:06,240 Putin was pretty clear that he was angry about what was happening. 157 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,240 He said to me that I should not take part in the demonstrations. 158 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,640 I pointed out that my responsibility was to represent the EU, 159 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,360 but I did have to go and talk to people who were 160 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,720 either flying an EU flag literally, 161 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,440 or who were really interested in the relationship with the EU. 162 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,920 What is the right that Putin has to say who should go or 163 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,440 not go to Ukraine? 164 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,360 Ukraine is not part of Russia. 165 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,200 We are, er, free countries! 166 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:39,880 But that was the position. 167 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,840 Soon, the protesters in Kyiv started moving out of the square 168 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:06,800 and towards government buildings. 169 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,720 Oleksandr Turchynov, a leading opposition MP, 170 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,600 rushed to see the President. 171 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,680 Before the protesters could retreat, 172 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,480 they came under fire from the security forces. 173 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:38,320 I was in the Dolomites, on a skiing holiday with my family. 174 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:47,160 I checked my phone, and there was this video posted by Romanska TV - 175 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,920 a kind of citizen's TV station at the time. 176 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:54,200 And you could clearly hear the sounds of gunfire. 177 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,960 And not in the air, but into people. 178 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:02,800 So, I mean, we were about to get dressed for skiing, and... 179 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,760 I had to inform my family, "Sorry, I have to go and be there". 180 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,080 That night, the demonstrators set fire to car tyres, 181 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,320 trying to force back the police. 182 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,400 It had been the deadliest day of the protests so far, 183 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,440 with more than 20 killed and hundreds wounded. 184 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,680 Arriving in Kyiv, Sikorski, 185 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,920 along with the foreign ministers of France and Germany, 186 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,360 headed to meet Yanukovych. 187 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:42,400 Later. 188 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,520 We told him, "Look, you have to get real. 189 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:51,840 "This situation cannot be resolved if you don't agree to go before 190 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,680 "your term of office expires." 191 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,800 Erm, and he sort of went white, 192 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,200 and went to the next room to make a foreign call. 193 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,640 Yanukovych didn't tell us where the call was originating, 194 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,520 or where he was calling. 195 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:14,080 But his associates told us that he was calling Moscow. 196 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:19,360 And, to our astonishment, when he returned, er, he agreed. 197 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,920 For the Ukrainian President, it was a humiliating defeat. 198 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,320 He's had to give up many of the powers he took in controversial 199 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,200 changes to the constitution, 200 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,400 and he'll be gone by the end of the year. 201 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:40,040 When we were entering this building 24 hours ago, 202 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:45,880 there was black smoke, there was the sound of gunfire and of detonations. 203 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,200 Now we have fair weather - which shows that God is looking 204 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,080 with, um, favour on this agreement. 205 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,040 The following day, Ukraine's parliament started trying 206 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:01,800 to put the deal into practice. 207 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,960 The House passed the legislation, 208 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,400 and we were trying to find Yanukovych. 209 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,640 He has to sign it into the law. 210 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,120 No-one knew where Yanukovych was. 211 00:17:15,120 --> 00:17:20,280 I remember ringing up and talking to the Deputy Foreign Minister 212 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,400 at the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry, and saying, "What's going on?". 213 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,600 And the guy on the other end of the phone said, 214 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,040 "We don't know where President Yanukovych is". 215 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,280 In the middle of the night, 216 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,800 Yanukovych had flown by helicopter to the East of Ukraine, 217 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,520 near the Russian border. 218 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,520 And on the streets of Kyiv, the thousands of security forces 219 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,920 who'd been battling the protesters had disappeared. 220 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,320 We were worried that now we had a vacuum. 221 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:35,080 I thought it was really important to get to Kyiv to talk to everybody, 222 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,520 and to see what we could do. 223 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,160 You, sort of, felt the heaviness. 224 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,720 You saw people standing around in the streets with guns. 225 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,840 Everyone was really, kind of, taking in what was going on. 226 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,960 Somebody whispered in my ear, 227 00:18:53,960 --> 00:19:00,480 "Do you think it felt like this in 1917, in the Russian Revolution?" 228 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,400 And although, of course it was entirely different, 229 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,720 I think what they were referring to was that sense that everything 230 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,800 was about to change, and nobody quite knew where it would go. 231 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,240 On the night that Yanukovych fled Kyiv, 232 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,360 Vladimir Putin was busy hosting the biggest international event 233 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:28,560 Russia had staged in years - the Sochi Winter Olympics. 234 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,120 By now, Yanukovych had reached Crimea, 235 00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:24,240 a peninsula in the South of Ukraine. 236 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,360 It had deep ties to Russia, 237 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,200 and was home to its Black Sea naval fleet. 238 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:35,800 Putin ordered his special forces to escort Yanukovych to Russia. 239 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,720 But that wasn't all. 240 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,800 He was about to make his most audacious move since taking office. 241 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,360 We started to hear that something was afoot in Crimea. 242 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,480 By that time, in a number of Ukraine's bigger cities, 243 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,960 we'd seen efforts on the part of Russian-leaning groups 244 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:36,840 to storm public offices, to kind of take over the town hall. 245 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,960 And, to be quite honest, our first reports to London were 246 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,440 that we understood that something similar was happening in Crimea. 247 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:52,560 In fact, Armed Forces were appearing across the peninsula. 248 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:56,000 These "little green men", as they came to be called, 249 00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:00,160 wore unmarked uniforms and carried modern Russian weapons... 250 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,280 In Washington, the President was briefed on the situation. 251 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,440 So far, he'd kept the crisis in Ukraine at arms' length. 252 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,160 But Putin had now crossed a line. 253 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,880 Good afternoon, everybody. 254 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,960 We are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements 255 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,160 taken by the Russian Federation inside of Ukraine. 256 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,560 Just days after the world came to Russia for the Olympic Games, 257 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,480 it would invite the condemnation of nations around the world. 258 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,560 And there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine. 259 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,600 ..Who those forces are in Crimea? Are they Russian forces? 260 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,480 Obama called in his top advisers. 261 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,800 The President was keen for action - not military action, 262 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,160 but economic action - which can be very powerful if the US is doing it. 263 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,520 And the natural thing was to turn to sanctions. 264 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,480 But we also wanted to be joined together with allies in Europe. 265 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,040 And we in the US knew the economic costs of sanctions on Russia, 266 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,240 and of any counter-sanctions by Russia would be felt 267 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,200 much more strongly in Europe than in the United States. 268 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,760 Obama would let the Europeans take the lead. 269 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,520 The British Prime Minister was one of the first 270 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,520 to speak directly to Putin. 271 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,880 The thing with Putin is you've always known he mourns 272 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,120 the loss of the Soviet Union. 273 00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,800 He wants to recover territory where he can. 274 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,520 And I said to him, "Look, you know this is illegitimate action. 275 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,200 "Ukraine is a legitimate country. It has its own borders." 276 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,360 Cameron said what had happened was just completely unacceptable. 277 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:21,520 One country had literally seized a chunk of territory from another 278 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,680 country and claimed it for itself. 279 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,120 And when was the last time that had happened in Europe? 280 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:34,040 Maybe...maybe the Second World War, and it hadn't happened since. 281 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,120 And Putin's response was that Crimea basically historically had 282 00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:40,920 always been part of Russia and was their territory. 283 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,080 "This is my backyard, keep out of it." 284 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,400 An emergency summit of EU leaders was called. 285 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,880 Cameron arrived with a draft proposal for wide-ranging 286 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,440 sanctions against Russia. 287 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,200 I was clear that we were not going to send troops to Ukraine. 288 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,840 In your heart, you wanted to do more, but in your head, 289 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:16,120 you knew, you know, we must not make this a Russia-NATO conflict. 290 00:25:16,120 --> 00:25:19,880 But I thought we could do everything we could to try and make 291 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,640 the consequences bad for Russia by having sanctions, 292 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,960 travel bans, asset freezes. 293 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,040 We need to send a very clear message to the Russian government 294 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,800 that what has happened is unacceptable. 295 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,000 There were two difficult issues in it. 296 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,840 Number one - if you talked about energy, 297 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,000 a lot of European countries, particularly central European, 298 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,480 but also Germany had quite a heavy reliance on Russian oil and gas. 299 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,440 And second, some European countries - 300 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,440 notably again, Germany and Italy - 301 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,960 sold a lot of stuff to Russia. 302 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,400 Viktor Orban, the Prime Minister of Hungary, 303 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:45,040 was saying that it was difficult for him to accept sanctions because 304 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:50,720 if we adopted sanctions, there would be counter-sanctions from Russia. 305 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,120 Merkel was quite supportive, 306 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,920 but kind of flagged up the energy was difficult. 307 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,320 The reaction of Europe at the time was very upsetting. 308 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,200 The cheap energy was so comfortable 309 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,960 and so addictive that they were not able to overstep 310 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,600 their pragmatic policies. 311 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,000 I said very clearly, "No more business as usual. 312 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000 "We can't leave this Council without a clear declaration that 313 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,480 "what's happened is wrong." 314 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,160 That's always the problem with sanctions taken 315 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,440 by a group of countries. 316 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,280 The countries want to adopt sanctions, 317 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,800 but they don't want their sectors or where they have stronger 318 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:52,640 interests to be very much affected. 319 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,160 The European Council threatened sanctions 320 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,160 unless Putin withdrew his forces. 321 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,840 These would target a small number of individuals, 322 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,040 but none of Russia's key economic sectors, 323 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,320 and nothing would happen right away. 324 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,320 I'll answer every question you ask. 325 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,680 I was disappointed, yes. 326 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,520 But I never went public accusing our Western friends. 327 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,680 I am well aware of Putin's playbook, 328 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,000 to split unity in the EU 329 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,320 and to play on these differences. 330 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:31,240 So, I never went public, but I was very tough 331 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,000 behind the closed doors. 332 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,320 Ten days later, with Putin's backing, 333 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:45,680 a referendum was held in Crimea. 334 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:54,880 Officially, 93% voted in favour of joining the Russian Federation - 335 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,480 a figure widely rejected by the international community. 336 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,560 Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. 337 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,360 For Putin, this didn't matter. 338 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:53,080 The same week, Obama was in Europe with his own message for Putin. 339 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,800 America's got a whole lot of challenges. 340 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:02,880 Russia is a regional power that is threatening some of 341 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,080 its immediate neighbours... 342 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,040 ..not out of strength, but out of weakness. 343 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,160 He said that Russia is just a regional power - 344 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,640 and this is not helpful, because it feeds on resentment. 345 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,800 And for me, Putin is essentially a product of resentment 346 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,200 because of the decline, and also, humiliation of Russia after 347 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,320 the collapse of the Soviet Union. 348 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,120 What's the need of humiliating, or creating more resentment 349 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,440 in someone like Putin? 350 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,920 It perhaps inflamed Putin that he said it. 351 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,040 But that was how he saw it. 352 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,240 This is not the biggest threat that we face. 353 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,560 This is a threat that we're going to deal with, 354 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,040 and that we are dealing with, 355 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,400 but we don't need to get too worked up about it. 356 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,600 When Putin met the new President of the European Commission 357 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,200 months later, Obama's words still rankled. 358 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,080 We were discussing Crimea. 359 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:08,320 Putin repeated his Crimean poem, 360 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,280 saying that this was a part of Russia, 361 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,400 and of the former Soviet Union. 362 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:20,280 And for the very first time, I noted that something had changed. 363 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:27,560 When it came to Ukraine, he suddenly expressed himself in 364 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,200 a far more brutal way than was usually the case. 365 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,000 He's hardened his position. He's very aggressive. 366 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,440 He's very revisionist in his approach to history. 367 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,160 He repeatedly said, "Ukraine is Russian". 368 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,960 And the sentence that he always brought up, is that the sentence 369 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:49,120 of President Obama that Russia would be only "a regional power". 370 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:55,320 And he really felt hurt and insulted by that. 371 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Putin was about to face another humiliation. 372 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,920 These leaders huddled around a small table decided that 373 00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,080 they would suspend taking part in G8 meetings 374 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,400 until Russia changed course. 375 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,800 Russia was kicked out of the club for the world's leading economies 376 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,720 as the G8 became the G7. 377 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,680 These are industrialised countries, 378 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,640 and we clearly have seen that 379 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,480 they treat Russia like an outsider, 380 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,880 like the desire is just to leave Russia as an agrarian country with 381 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,920 a lot of mineral resources - like Bulgaria, for instance. 382 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,640 We were always on the periphery. 383 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:38,920 It's not a place for us. 384 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,920 In Ukraine, the situation was threatening to explode. 385 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,080 Crimea had been taken with little resistance. 386 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,200 But in the Eastern region of Donbas, Ukrainian forces were now being 387 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,320 attacked by Russian-backed separatists. 388 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,640 That summer, France would host celebrations for the 70th 389 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 anniversary of the D-Day landings. 390 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,800 Putin's invitation had been in doubt. 391 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,560 But the French President, 392 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,280 spotting the chance for a diplomatic breakthrough, 393 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,440 arranged a dinner at the Elysee. 394 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,840 Hollande pressed Putin on the need for peace talks. 395 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,120 The next day's celebrations in Normandy would be a perfect 396 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,320 opportunity to speak face-to-face 397 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:28,200 with Ukraine's newly-elected President, Petro Poroshenko. 398 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,840 President Putin did not recognise this election. 399 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,400 So, we had a raising tension on one hand, 400 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,440 and on the other hand, no contact. 401 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,400 So, we thought, "Why shouldn't we try to bring them together"? 402 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,560 He seemed to be positive, but we had no guarantee. 403 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:21,960 So, we had to organise this in a... kind of...uncertainty. 404 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,960 The next day, Putin joined 19 other heads of state in Normandy. 405 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,400 For Ukraine's new President - 406 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,600 a billionaire who'd made his money selling chocolate - 407 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,400 the pressure was on. 408 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,840 Of course, all the world leaders were in Normandy for D-Day. 409 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,040 And I was surprised that the line of the leaders who want 410 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:03,880 to shake hands with Obama, 411 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,240 President of the United States, was significantly shorter than 412 00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:11,360 the line of the leaders 413 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,000 who want to shake hands with Putin. 414 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:20,760 And then, I see how difficult it would be for me, 415 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,960 for Ukrainians to stop Putin. 416 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:44,440 We had 20 minutes before the huge lunch with all 417 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,200 the heads of state and government, 418 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,840 including Her Majesty the Queen. 419 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,440 We couldn't afford to be late, because normally, you do not tell 420 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,480 the Queen of England that, "Sorry, we are a bit late. 421 00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,200 "You have to wait 15 minutes." 422 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:00,800 That doesn't work. 423 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,640 Putin hated the idea to have this meeting. 424 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,520 He tried to do his best to avoid it. 425 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,760 And it happened while Francois Hollande take his hands 426 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,760 and accompany him to the room. 427 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,480 Hollande had enlisted the German Chancellor's support. 428 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,640 We got together in this typical French chateau, 429 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,680 and they were sitting there, it was very crisp. 430 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,280 When Putin entered, he said, "OK, 10-15 minutes, no more". 431 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:36,320 "Why?" 432 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,280 "Because I have a very busy schedule." 433 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:44,640 "OK." I started with the... 434 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,880 ..demand for the immediate liberation of the Crimea. 435 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,800 Putin said in Russian, he said, "Ikh tam net". 436 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,280 Which means, "There is no Russian troops there". 437 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:02,840 And then, Angela said, "Volodiya" - she said it in Russian. 438 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,040 "Don't be stupid, so, come on." 439 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,600 After less than 20 minutes, the leaders left for the lunch. 440 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,960 Nothing substantive had been agreed. 441 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,680 A month later, the US President had a scheduled phone call with Putin. 442 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,920 Ukraine was top of the agenda. 443 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,320 Putin was saying we've both got interests in Ukraine, 444 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:56,600 and Obama was saying words to the effect of, "Vladimir, 445 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,040 "I don't have a national security interest in Ukraine itself. 446 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,400 "But we have a national security interest in 447 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,680 "the sovereignty of Ukraine." 448 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,960 And at some point, Putin said something about things happening. 449 00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,800 The President of Russia reported to President Obama that 450 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,600 a plane crash had just taken place in the Donbas region. 451 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,200 None of us knew what he was talking about. 452 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,680 There was a sense of, "Oh, there's a war going on". 453 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,280 Maybe a helicopter has crashed. 454 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,040 Maybe some other crash has taken place. 455 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:35,520 I left at that phone call and went to run a meeting. 456 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,080 And halfway through it, one of my staff members passes me a note 457 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,720 that says, "You better get back to your office. 458 00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:49,000 "There are suitcases and body parts falling from the sky in Donbas." 459 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,240 A Boeing jet, Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, 460 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:04,800 had come down in the East of Ukraine, 461 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,000 about 30 miles from the Russian border. 462 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,640 The first reports suggested it had been shot out of the sky. 463 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,520 Literally within a few hours, 464 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,360 we hear from the security intelligence agencies that the 465 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:31,280 Americans are pretty sure that the missile came out of 466 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:35,760 separatist-held regions of Donbas, 467 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,600 and that it had been supplied by the Russians. 468 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,800 I had a call with Putin where, you know, he just lied. 469 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,920 He must've seen the same evidence as me. 470 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:48,720 He probably knew more than me. 471 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:53,280 And this was what we used to call in, sort of, Foreign Office terms, 472 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,880 it was the Russian approach of deny and lie. 473 00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,600 It was clear that it was a mistake. 474 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:04,720 But the so-called international community, which means US policy 475 00:41:04,720 --> 00:41:08,280 or European Union, the next day, put the blame on us. 476 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,160 This is another step to drive the wedge 477 00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600 and to make this wedge larger and larger 478 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,480 between West and Russia. 479 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:25,000 With separatists controlling the crash site, 480 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,080 investigators weren't able to collect evidence 481 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,840 or recover victims' bodies. 482 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:41,480 The vast majority of the 298 people on board had been Dutch nationals. 483 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,480 Four days after the disaster, 484 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,320 the Dutch Foreign Minister attended a special meeting of 485 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,840 the United Nations. 486 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,240 Just for one minute, I'm not addressing you as 487 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:58,160 representatives of your countries, 488 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:03,040 but as husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, just imagine that 489 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:09,360 you first get the news that your husband was killed. 490 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:15,480 And then, within 2-3 days, you see images of some thug 491 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,880 removing the wedding band from their hands. 492 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,680 I thought if I could create the right momentum in 493 00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,240 the security council, with all the others putting pressure on Russia, 494 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:29,640 it would be very difficult for them to refuse at least access, 495 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,960 so that we could, you know, bring the remains home. 496 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,600 I call on the international community on this Security Council, 497 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,240 on anyone with influence on the situation on the ground, 498 00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:44,960 allow us to bring the victims' remains home to their loved ones. 499 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,240 They deserve to be home. 500 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,920 Frans Timmermans' speech struck a chord. 501 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,520 Despite Russian resistance, the UN agreed a resolution demanding 502 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,920 emergency services be given access to the crash site. 503 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,960 He now wanted to make sure that Putin would pay. 504 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,680 It's impossible for me to put into words how the Dutch nation 505 00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:19,560 mourned this and how furious people were, 506 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920 and how sad people were. 507 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,080 And that needed to find a political outlet. 508 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,000 We needed to do something with that. 509 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,080 24 hours after addressing the UN, 510 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,600 Timmermans confronted his fellow EU foreign ministers. 511 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:42,640 He wanted sanctions to hit Russia's key sectors like energy and banking, 512 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,600 even if this meant European economies suffered. 513 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,080 I said, "If we don't react now, the Russians will interpret this as, 514 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,640 "sort of, a carte blanche to do even more". 515 00:43:54,640 --> 00:44:00,280 Straight away, it was clear that there were two extremes in the room. 516 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,720 That, on the one hand, the Poles, 517 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:06,520 the Baltic states, as usual, 518 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,840 taking a very, very tough line on Russia. 519 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,640 At the other end of the scale, 520 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,840 some of the Southern Europeans being much more reluctant to move forward. 521 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,520 I said, "Surely you don't want to be the one to prevent 522 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,040 "our unity from being clear. 523 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,600 "How are you going to explain to your media that you don't 524 00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,280 "want us to impose sanctions?" 525 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,440 Most countries didn't, and probably still don't 526 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,200 feel threatened by Russia. 527 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,960 When a Lithuanian, or even a Pole says something about Russia, 528 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,480 they are sceptical. 529 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:47,720 But when a really cool, rational Dutchman says it, 530 00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:50,840 it has a greater effect on the western Europeans. 531 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,360 There were member states who, I think, at that time were feeling 532 00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,320 we'd done enough, 533 00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,200 or maybe it was time to relax our position. 534 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,320 Nobody suggested that, having listened to Frans. 535 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,320 I think we have a good result, 536 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:16,040 one that should be satisfying to Holland, to the Dutch public, 537 00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:23,200 one that should make President Putin realise that this time 538 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:25,520 we are for real, this is serious. 539 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:34,680 The EU, together with America, 540 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:39,120 imposed the toughest sanctions Russia had faced since the Cold War, 541 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,760 targeting its energy, arms, and finance sectors. 542 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,840 But some thought they should go even further. 543 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,040 In the Pentagon, discussions had started about whether the US should 544 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,800 send Ukraine its much-lauded Javelin anti-tank missiles. 545 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,160 The most important thing for us was to deter the Russians. 546 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,400 And so, we thought the Javelin system was perfect because 547 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:07,480 they are defensive, but they're lethal. 548 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,000 They will kill the people in the tank. 549 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,400 So the body bags go back to Russia, 550 00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,240 and Russia has a political problem. 551 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,480 Farkas took her pitch to the White House, 552 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,280 where she met Obama's top Russia advisers. 553 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:31,200 We were very concerned about pouring fuel on the fire. 554 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,280 I said, "Let's not move up a ladder of escalation 555 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,600 "that we are unlikely to win". 556 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,920 I said that Russia has a border of 1,000 miles with Ukraine - 557 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:41,600 more than 1,000 miles. 558 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,760 Russia has uncontested military superiority - 559 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,480 why should we play to Russia's strength? 560 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,800 We should play to our strength by hitting them with sanctions. 561 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,400 We already had a sense that sanctions weren't going 562 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,280 to do it in the short run. 563 00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:02,000 I deemed the situation as urgent enough to merit, you know, 564 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,240 essentially exacting a price in the form of, 565 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:08,080 sorry to say, Russian lives. 566 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,440 That price would be the only thing that would cause 567 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,960 Vladimir Putin to stop and think. 568 00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,480 I don't think that Vladimir Putin is the kind of leader who's gonna say, 569 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,160 "Well, I just lost 100 soldiers. I'm going to stop." 570 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,760 The United States did not want to be going to war with Russia. 571 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,160 And so, there was concern about what would be provocative. 572 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:33,760 We knew that the Europeans were taking the lead in talks 573 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:39,640 with Putin, and so the United States suddenly weighing in with weapons 574 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:44,240 would've been consequential, and seemed to be problematic. 575 00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,160 The violence in Ukraine was getting worse. 576 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,720 Reports were emerging of Russian troops crossing the border 577 00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:02,600 to fight alongside the separatists. 578 00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:12,160 Ukraine's President now had his first face-to-face meeting 579 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:13,920 with Putin since Normandy. 580 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:24,920 The fighting had increased, 581 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,960 they had just captured ten Russian soldiers. 582 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:33,640 There were huge implications for how this might go in the future. 583 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,200 I said, "Vladimir, this is your soldiers on my soil. 584 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,720 "And we have the evidence for the whole world." 585 00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:43,200 And the Putin answer was, 586 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,680 "No, no, no, this is not our soldiers". 587 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,520 "Vladimir, this is the ID tag of your soldiers. 588 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,760 "And we have dozens and dozens of them." 589 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,320 "No, no, no, this is not mine, I don't know how you..." 590 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:00,520 "OK, we have the orders that they are regular soldiers 591 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:02,760 "of the regular army." 592 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:08,920 "I double check - no, they are on holiday." 593 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,360 "We called to their parents, we called to their wives, 594 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,040 "and they said that they are in regular army." 595 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:21,680 "No, because they were in regular army, but they just lost 596 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,680 "their way when they're driving in the Russian territory." 597 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,720 The leaders of the European Union said, 598 00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:31,520 "Putin, OK, stop. Stop, stop." 599 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:36,440 Poroshenko looked pretty drawn and was visibly shaken. 600 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,360 It was clear that the bigger issues were nowhere near resolution. 601 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,880 With no Western military support, Ukraine's forces were being 602 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,800 overwhelmed by the rebels armed by Russia. 603 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,240 By February, it was looking desperate. 604 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,000 A critical battle was raging around the city of Debaltseve - 605 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,040 a stronghold which, if breached, 606 00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,080 would be disastrous for Ukraine. 607 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,960 The French and German leaders called an emergency summit. 608 00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:20,880 As they arrived, 609 00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:22,400 Poroshenko grabbed a private word 610 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,520 with the German Chancellor. 611 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:31,800 Poroshenko told her very clearly the defence forces are defeated, 612 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:35,080 they barely can hold the line. 613 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:36,680 If the Russians break through, 614 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,240 they can go all the way to Kyiv. 615 00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,080 So, he needed - he needed an agreement. 616 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,520 In a diplomat's life, you have very few occasions where you have 617 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,080 directly at stake the life of - literally the lives 618 00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,400 of thousands of people. 619 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,640 If you fail, if you have no compromise, 620 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,000 people can be killed on the one hand. 621 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,200 But on the other hand, you cannot accept any compromise because 622 00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,160 by definition, this is the pressure they are trying to put on you. 623 00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,200 So, in a small corner of this palace, 624 00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,640 these negotiations took place. 625 00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,480 A lot of people in there, a big table in the middle 626 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,320 where all during the night, 627 00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,160 food was brought in so that it was used as a buffet. 628 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,960 In front of Putin, Poroshenko wasn't going to reveal 629 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,960 how vulnerable his forces were. 630 00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,040 I said, "What you want? 631 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,560 "Do you want to kill more Ukrainians?" 632 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:29,640 I said, "You have the wrong information. 633 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,640 "Our soldiers is one of the best, 634 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:35,440 "and we don't give you any chance to do that." 635 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,800 I said, "I think that the first important message 636 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:45,400 "should be immediate and unconditional ceasefire". 637 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,760 Who can be against ceasefire? 638 00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:52,400 Putin appeared to relent. 639 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,880 He agreed to an immediate ceasefire, 640 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,680 as long as Ukraine's forces also pulled back. 641 00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:04,440 All of a sudden, the Russians backtracked on a very important part 642 00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,120 and that was the timing for the ceasefire. 643 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,880 With the talks on the verge of collapse, 644 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,240 Hollande and Merkel took Putin aside. 645 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,880 The compromise was that the ceasefire would be 646 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,400 delayed for 48 hours. 647 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,960 I was worried about these 48 hours. 648 00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,560 We had guarantees, verbal guarantees, but we were not 649 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:52,640 100% sure that this opportunity would not be used to attack. 650 00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,480 A glimmer of hope to end the bloodshed. 651 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:25,360 The warring parties in the Ukraine conflict finally reached a deal, 652 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,600 paving the way for peace after ten months of fighting. 653 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:35,400 Even after the 48 hours was up, 654 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,120 separatist forces continued their assault on Debaltseve. 655 00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,280 Five days later, they took the city. 656 00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:52,920 Russian forces didn't advance any further into Ukraine. 657 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,080 But the fighting in the East never stopped, 658 00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:59,680 and Crimea remained under Russian control. 659 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:06,360 Do you know what is the achievement, despite the fact that Russia 660 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,840 did not fulfil one tiny thing from Minsk? 661 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:16,160 These documents give Ukraine eight years 662 00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,840 for building up army, 663 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:24,080 for building up economy, and for building up global 664 00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:27,360 pro-Ukrainian, anti-Putin coalition. 665 00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:44,360 Three years later, Putin took centre stage at 666 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:47,520 the opening of a bridge connecting Crimea to Russia. 667 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:13,000 The bridge was deemed a violation of international law, 668 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:18,360 and the US and EU hit the companies who built it with sanctions. 669 00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,720 But Putin wasn't deterred. 670 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:27,200 Putin once said to me, "Why are you defending Ukraine? 671 00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:32,080 "Ukraine is a creation of the CIA and of the European Commission." 672 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,400 And I said to him, "Look, if it was the European Commission 673 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,440 "that had created Ukraine, I would probably know about it". 674 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:43,360 So, it's amazing that, in Putin's mind, 675 00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:48,280 Ukraine was an artificial creation by others. 676 00:57:48,280 --> 00:57:50,560 And I think that's part of the problem. 677 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:10,160 I blame the West, us. 678 00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,800 We are guilty that we allowed him to grow to such a level of intimidation. 679 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,800 Next time - buoyed by his success in Crimea, 680 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,880 Putin asserts Russia's power in the Middle East. 681 00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,400 Putin doesn't care about the loss of life. 682 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,480 He doesn't care about the damage he inflicts, 683 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,920 he doesn't care about what he does to civilians.