1 00:00:11,630 --> 00:00:14,210 (gentle music) 2 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,190 Our earliest experiences being in the womb 3 00:00:29,190 --> 00:00:32,190 form the template of who we believe we are, 4 00:00:32,190 --> 00:00:34,440 about how we see other people, 5 00:00:34,570 --> 00:00:36,150 and our place in the world. 6 00:00:44,410 --> 00:00:48,000 When I see human faces, I see beauty, 7 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,210 I see tremendous suffering 8 00:00:50,750 --> 00:00:53,920 and enormous potential for transcendence. 9 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,640 A Greek playwright wrote that the Gods created us 10 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,810 human beings so that we have to suffer into truth. 11 00:01:07,810 --> 00:01:09,520 Our job as human beings is to learn 12 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,900 from our suffering and to grow from it. 13 00:01:18,990 --> 00:01:22,030 We don't have to keep perpetuating pain for ourselves 14 00:01:22,030 --> 00:01:24,070 and inflicting suffering onto others. 15 00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:28,370 In working with so many other people, 16 00:01:28,370 --> 00:01:29,750 I've learned that working 17 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:33,630 through trauma can teach us so much wisdom 18 00:01:34,460 --> 00:01:37,130 and can reveal the beauty of our existence, 19 00:01:37,340 --> 00:01:40,590 that because of trauma, you had lost sight of. 20 00:01:41,050 --> 00:01:43,640 (gentle music) 21 00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:22,050 (rain pattering) 22 00:02:26,930 --> 00:02:29,720 My name is Gabor Maté and I'm a retired medical doctor 23 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,770 and these days I travel the world speaking 24 00:02:32,770 --> 00:02:36,020 and teaching about child development, health, 25 00:02:36,020 --> 00:02:39,070 illness, stress and trauma. 26 00:02:41,230 --> 00:02:43,030 And speaking about trauma is really part 27 00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:44,900 of the zeitgeist these days. 28 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:47,530 And I'm very passionate about it for a simple reason: 29 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,000 because in 30 years or more of medical practice 30 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,620 and of addiction medicine, 31 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:56,170 what I found was that the common template 32 00:02:56,170 --> 00:02:59,460 for virtually all afflictions, mental illness, 33 00:02:59,460 --> 00:03:02,380 physical disease is in fact trauma. 34 00:03:07,890 --> 00:03:09,470 And there's a wisdom in trauma 35 00:03:11,260 --> 00:03:14,430 when we realize that our traumatic responses and imprints 36 00:03:14,430 --> 00:03:18,020 are not ourselves and that we can work them through 37 00:03:18,020 --> 00:03:19,770 and thus become ourselves. 38 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,940 (gentle music) 39 00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:38,120 (people chattering) 40 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,750 Virtually every week there's a study 41 00:03:39,750 --> 00:03:41,540 that more and more people are needing 42 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:45,130 or seeking help for mental health issues. 43 00:03:45,130 --> 00:03:47,720 More and more youth are diagnosed with anxiety, 44 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,850 many more kids are diagnosed with the whole plethora 45 00:03:50,850 --> 00:03:53,220 of childhood conditions, such as ADHD, 46 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:56,020 (Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder). 47 00:03:56,020 --> 00:03:59,850 Depression is rising, youth suicide is rising, 48 00:03:59,850 --> 00:04:01,610 addictions are rising. 49 00:04:01,610 --> 00:04:03,020 Genuinely, it's an epidemic. 50 00:04:08,740 --> 00:04:13,740 20% of youth or more are now diagnosable with anxiety 51 00:04:13,870 --> 00:04:15,410 according to all the recent studies. 52 00:04:15,410 --> 00:04:17,330 That's one-fifth. 53 00:04:17,330 --> 00:04:18,370 And those are all only people 54 00:04:18,370 --> 00:04:21,080 who are sufficiently anxious to be diagnosed. 55 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,090 We're talking about an epidemic. 56 00:04:27,380 --> 00:04:30,510 - When you grew up in a circumstance like I grew up, 57 00:04:30,510 --> 00:04:32,550 you're waiting for somebody to scream at you, 58 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:34,510 you're waiting for something to be thrown, 59 00:04:34,510 --> 00:04:35,770 you don't know if you're going to eat, 60 00:04:35,770 --> 00:04:37,430 you don't know if you're going to be evicted. 61 00:04:37,430 --> 00:04:41,100 So you're constantly anxious and stressed. 62 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:43,730 I used to think this was a rarity 63 00:04:43,730 --> 00:04:45,230 but when I talked to people, 64 00:04:45,230 --> 00:04:50,240 a huge number of people have these traumatic experiences 65 00:04:50,950 --> 00:04:54,330 as a child that carry, they carry with them. 66 00:04:54,330 --> 00:04:56,910 It's like a monkey on your back. 67 00:05:01,290 --> 00:05:05,500 (disembodied whispering) (soft music) 68 00:05:05,500 --> 00:05:06,960 - Trauma is an overwhelming threat 69 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,460 that you don't how to deal with. 70 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,550 So trauma is not the bad things that happen to you, 71 00:05:13,550 --> 00:05:15,180 but what happens inside you 72 00:05:15,180 --> 00:05:17,100 as a result of what happens to you. 73 00:05:20,690 --> 00:05:25,520 (police radio chatter) (sirens wailing) 74 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,070 - My father was shot and killed on December 25th, 1999. 75 00:05:29,070 --> 00:05:31,740 They found his body in someone's front yard. 76 00:05:31,740 --> 00:05:33,870 So essentially I didn't have anybody to raise me. 77 00:05:33,870 --> 00:05:36,280 So I was raised in the juvenile court system. 78 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:39,580 I've lived on the streets 79 00:05:39,580 --> 00:05:41,710 since I was 10-years-old by myself. 80 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,790 The law didn't scare me. 81 00:05:44,790 --> 00:05:46,090 I mean, they could have locked me up, 82 00:05:46,090 --> 00:05:47,040 I mean what's the difference? 83 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,710 Nobody out here is gonna miss me. 84 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:59,310 - My mother, alcoholic. Bad alcoholic. 85 00:05:59,310 --> 00:06:00,930 My father, sex addiction. 86 00:06:02,060 --> 00:06:06,650 His sex addiction ruined our whole family. 87 00:06:06,650 --> 00:06:09,320 Cheating. Caused divorce. 88 00:06:10,230 --> 00:06:13,650 (man and woman shouting) 89 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:18,990 I started heroin at 26. 90 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:23,290 That's what really destroyed me. 91 00:06:27,170 --> 00:06:28,920 It just takes the pain away. 92 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:31,090 I tried building my dream so many times. 93 00:06:31,090 --> 00:06:32,840 I don't really have a dream no more. 94 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:41,270 - So trauma fundamentally means a disconnection from self. 95 00:06:41,270 --> 00:06:42,770 Why do we get disconnected? 96 00:06:42,770 --> 00:06:45,560 Because it's too painful to be ourselves. 97 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,940 That then becomes a lifelong dynamic. 98 00:06:48,940 --> 00:06:51,150 I no longer know how to deal with emotions. 99 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,320 It means that in relationships when I feel a bit hurt, 100 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,570 I immediately withdraw so I don't have to feel 101 00:06:57,570 --> 00:06:59,990 those emotions that I don't know what to do with. 102 00:07:01,370 --> 00:07:03,410 So there's a disconnect. 103 00:07:03,410 --> 00:07:05,500 It also means that when I have a gut feelings, 104 00:07:05,500 --> 00:07:06,710 I don't follow them. 105 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,170 So I create situations of risk for myself. 106 00:07:12,170 --> 00:07:15,510 The trauma also affects how our brains develop. 107 00:07:15,510 --> 00:07:19,680 Certain key brain circuits that have to do with 108 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,520 how we react and respond and regulate ourselves, 109 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,690 how we handle stress, how we interact with other people, 110 00:07:26,690 --> 00:07:28,560 how much empathy and insight we have, 111 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:30,360 how much compassionate we have. 112 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,320 These functions of the mid-frontal cortex 113 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:35,190 are limited and constricted by trauma 114 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:37,860 because we now know that the brain develops 115 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:39,370 in interaction with the environment. 116 00:07:39,370 --> 00:07:41,280 So the brains of traumatized children 117 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,120 don't look like the brains of non-traumatized children. 118 00:07:46,910 --> 00:07:47,960 - [Boy] You can take it, please. 119 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:49,540 - [Man] I've had enough of your crap. 120 00:07:49,540 --> 00:07:52,040 You're gonna start acting like a young man 121 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,380 instead of a toddler. 122 00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:54,210 - [Woman] As a matter of fact, 123 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:55,260 her ass is on punishment right now 124 00:07:55,260 --> 00:07:57,680 and she ain't even gonna go the fuck back outside. 125 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,260 - [Teenager] What the fuck are you doing? 126 00:07:59,260 --> 00:08:00,640 Dad, I swear to god. 127 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:01,470 - [Boy] No, no, wait. 128 00:08:01,470 --> 00:08:02,430 - [Man] There's no other way for 129 00:08:02,430 --> 00:08:03,890 you to learn this. - Dad. 130 00:08:03,890 --> 00:08:05,180 Please, stop. 131 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,640 (gentle music) 132 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,480 - During your first 18 years of life, 133 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,860 if a parent or other adult in the household 134 00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:19,200 often or very often would swear at you, 135 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,620 insult you, put you down or humiliate you, 136 00:08:23,620 --> 00:08:25,660 step inside the circle. 137 00:08:27,540 --> 00:08:29,460 (inmates chattering) 138 00:08:29,460 --> 00:08:33,210 If a parent or other adult in the household 139 00:08:33,210 --> 00:08:36,010 often pushed, grabbed, slapped 140 00:08:36,010 --> 00:08:40,010 or threw something at you, step inside the circle. 141 00:08:42,050 --> 00:08:44,760 If a parent or other adult in the household 142 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,600 often or very often ever hit you so hard 143 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,230 that you had marks or were injured, step inside the circle. 144 00:08:55,270 --> 00:08:58,780 If you often felt that no one in your family loved you, 145 00:08:58,780 --> 00:09:01,450 step inside the circle. 146 00:09:01,450 --> 00:09:03,450 Step inside the circle. 147 00:09:04,660 --> 00:09:07,160 (tense music) 148 00:09:18,420 --> 00:09:20,550 I think society got prison wrong 149 00:09:20,550 --> 00:09:23,260 and they're seeing what's wrong with people 150 00:09:23,260 --> 00:09:25,260 instead of what happened to people. 151 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:28,930 Our mission at Compassion Prison Project 152 00:09:28,930 --> 00:09:31,390 is to transform communities and prisons 153 00:09:31,390 --> 00:09:33,150 with compassionate action. 154 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:36,610 An adverse childhood experience is a terrible event 155 00:09:36,610 --> 00:09:39,030 that continues to happen to a child. 156 00:09:40,070 --> 00:09:43,410 And there's no way to know when it's gonna happen again, 157 00:09:43,410 --> 00:09:46,410 which puts the kid into a hypervigilant state. 158 00:09:46,410 --> 00:09:48,580 I have eight of those aces, and when I found out 159 00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:51,710 I have eight adverse childhood experiences 160 00:09:51,710 --> 00:09:54,670 and that my behavior was a direct result 161 00:09:54,670 --> 00:09:57,420 of the trauma that I experienced in childhood, 162 00:09:57,420 --> 00:09:59,300 it changed my life. 163 00:09:59,300 --> 00:10:02,680 Men and women in prison, 64% of them 164 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,220 have six or more of those. 165 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,760 (wind blowing) 166 00:10:11,020 --> 00:10:12,390 (car engine roaring) 167 00:10:16,310 --> 00:10:19,690 (birds chirping) 168 00:10:19,690 --> 00:10:21,940 (laughing) 169 00:10:25,780 --> 00:10:27,530 (foot step approaching) 170 00:10:28,580 --> 00:10:30,330 - Hi. Gabor. 171 00:10:30,330 --> 00:10:31,500 - Monique. - Monique? 172 00:10:31,500 --> 00:10:32,330 Hi, Gabor. 173 00:10:34,670 --> 00:10:35,500 (laughing) 174 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:37,170 I feel like I'm in a throne. 175 00:10:37,170 --> 00:10:39,500 I wanna talk to you guys about why 176 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:40,960 you think you got addicted, 177 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,840 about what may have happened to you as a child, 178 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,930 the way you saw yourself as being deficient, somehow. 179 00:10:44,930 --> 00:10:47,640 - I was kidnapped at 16 and sold off. 180 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,640 So that's a trauma and that's just something that's 181 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,520 in my life that you can't turn around, right? 182 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:55,850 - [Gabor] Kidnapped by whom? 183 00:10:56,770 --> 00:11:00,940 - It was a taxi driver who took me and a girlfriend 184 00:11:00,940 --> 00:11:02,690 when we were 16. - Okay. 185 00:11:02,690 --> 00:11:05,240 - [Alicia] And held us for six months in a motel 186 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:06,740 and sold off my virginity. 187 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,740 (tense music) 188 00:11:12,580 --> 00:11:15,040 car engine roaring) 189 00:11:17,370 --> 00:11:18,210 - [Gabor] And the police was looking 190 00:11:18,210 --> 00:11:19,710 for you all that time, and... 191 00:11:19,710 --> 00:11:22,760 - Well, my mom just thought that I had run away from home, 192 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,010 so she didn't look for me. - She didn't look for you? 193 00:11:25,010 --> 00:11:25,840 - [Alicia] No. 194 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:27,590 - I really need your permission to 195 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,930 continue or not to continue. - It's okay. 196 00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:32,010 I give my permission. 197 00:11:34,140 --> 00:11:36,390 - The taxi driver knew exactly who to kidnap. 198 00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:39,940 (car engine roaring) 199 00:11:41,770 --> 00:11:45,530 The predator can always tell who is without proection. 200 00:11:48,910 --> 00:11:50,410 Anybody hit you as a child? 201 00:11:50,410 --> 00:11:51,700 - [Alicia] Yes, my father. 202 00:11:52,990 --> 00:11:55,450 He would spank us and take a belt to us. 203 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,000 - Do you remember how that felt to you? 204 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,710 - Like I just remember the pain of it, 205 00:12:01,710 --> 00:12:03,670 instead of thinking, oh, why? 206 00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:04,840 Why did I deserve this? 207 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,510 I just remember the pain and the... 208 00:12:07,510 --> 00:12:09,010 - [Gabor] And how long did that go on for? 209 00:12:09,010 --> 00:12:11,010 - Well until I was approximately 16 210 00:12:11,010 --> 00:12:12,760 and started fighting back. 211 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,770 - So, 10 or 11 years? - Yeah. 212 00:12:14,770 --> 00:12:15,600 - Okay. 213 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,520 Let's say you're the mother of the five-year-old 214 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,400 and this five-year-old is being hit with a belt, 215 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,110 and she's in pain. 216 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:23,440 She doesn't understand, you know, 217 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:25,230 she's just, it just hurts. 218 00:12:25,230 --> 00:12:27,110 And it hurts emotionally 219 00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:30,660 because this man who is supposed to love me is beating me. 220 00:12:30,660 --> 00:12:33,120 So when you're being hit like that, 221 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:34,830 there's only two possibilities. 222 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:36,950 My father is a bad person or hates me 223 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,920 or I'm a bad person. 224 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,090 So the only protection is to believe that, 225 00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:49,260 oh, I'm not lovable. 226 00:12:49,260 --> 00:12:50,930 Let's say you're the mother of the five-year-old. 227 00:12:50,930 --> 00:12:54,050 Who would you want that five-year-old to talk to? 228 00:12:54,050 --> 00:12:55,220 - [Alicia] Myself. 229 00:12:55,220 --> 00:12:57,390 - Okay. Who did you talk to? 230 00:12:57,390 --> 00:12:58,230 - Nobody. 231 00:12:59,140 --> 00:13:00,140 - That's the trauma. 232 00:13:01,770 --> 00:13:04,900 In other words, by the time you were five-years-old, 233 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,360 you were completely alone. (child sobbing) 234 00:13:10,610 --> 00:13:12,410 What I'm suggesting really, Alicia, 235 00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:14,450 is that your mother was traumatized, too. 236 00:13:15,410 --> 00:13:16,950 Do you know anything about her childhood? 237 00:13:16,950 --> 00:13:19,120 - Well, she was abused as a child as well 238 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,710 from an alcoholic father. 239 00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:22,460 - See, she learned in her childhood 240 00:13:23,540 --> 00:13:25,790 not to pay attention to her feelings. 241 00:13:25,790 --> 00:13:27,380 That's the only way she could survive. 242 00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:28,210 - [Alicia] Yeah. 243 00:13:28,210 --> 00:13:29,210 - So the reason she didn't know it 244 00:13:29,210 --> 00:13:30,340 was not because she didn't love you, 245 00:13:30,340 --> 00:13:33,590 but because she herself was shut down inside. 246 00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:35,640 And that's what I'm saying, 247 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:36,720 it's multi-generational 248 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,020 - Mm-hm. - Okay? 249 00:13:38,020 --> 00:13:39,430 - It sucks. - Yeah. 250 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:41,640 You can't pick out who's at fault here. 251 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,650 It didn't begin with anybody. 252 00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:47,820 It goes on and on and on from one generation to the next. 253 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:50,400 (gentle music) 254 00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:53,990 - We were talking about the effects of slavery 255 00:13:53,990 --> 00:13:57,030 on our behavior, and I'll be honest with you, 256 00:13:57,030 --> 00:13:59,040 I ain't agree with it when I first heard it. 257 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:00,580 But then when he talked about the discipline 258 00:14:00,580 --> 00:14:03,170 I had a flashback of how I used to get whipped 259 00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:04,080 with a bullwhip. 260 00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:06,040 Naked. 261 00:14:07,130 --> 00:14:08,210 I hadn't put the two and two together, 262 00:14:08,210 --> 00:14:11,630 but I realized, that's how slaves were whipped, 263 00:14:11,630 --> 00:14:13,130 because it was generational trauma 264 00:14:13,130 --> 00:14:16,430 passed on from one mother to another mother 265 00:14:16,430 --> 00:14:18,970 to another mother and then passed on to me. 266 00:14:18,970 --> 00:14:22,100 I still got marks on my legs and stuff behind that. 267 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,060 And I just remembered there was no one I could run to. 268 00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:25,600 No one that would help me. 269 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,690 And she just was telling me how much she loved me 270 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:30,150 as she cried and she beat me with a bullwhip. 271 00:14:32,110 --> 00:14:37,120 (soft, tense music) (soft vocalizing) 272 00:14:41,870 --> 00:14:44,290 (soft music) 273 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:48,590 - [Woman] He's the best-selling author of four books 274 00:14:48,590 --> 00:14:51,880 published in 12 languages sold on five continents. 275 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,800 Please welcome Dr. Gabor Maté. 276 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,390 (applause) (cheering) 277 00:14:59,390 --> 00:15:01,310 - I actually wrote my speech out tonight, 278 00:15:01,310 --> 00:15:04,230 which I don't usually do but maybe of nervousness 279 00:15:04,230 --> 00:15:06,690 in front of this group of strong women. 280 00:15:06,690 --> 00:15:07,900 (audience laughing) 281 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:10,400 The truth is that guys are afraid of women. 282 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:11,360 (audience laughing) 283 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,030 I don't know if you realize that, but that's, 284 00:15:14,030 --> 00:15:17,070 a lot of the stuff that we do is totally out of fear. 285 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:17,910 Well, 286 00:15:19,620 --> 00:15:23,620 When you felt bad as a kid, who did you speak to? 287 00:15:24,710 --> 00:15:27,460 When the pain is there and there's no one to share it with, 288 00:15:27,460 --> 00:15:30,420 and the child's got very limited resources, 289 00:15:30,420 --> 00:15:32,090 to deal with that, and what they do 290 00:15:32,090 --> 00:15:34,210 is they disconnect from themselves. 291 00:15:35,050 --> 00:15:36,880 When you disconnect from yourself, 292 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,510 you no longer have yourself. 293 00:15:38,510 --> 00:15:39,930 You've lost yourself. 294 00:15:39,930 --> 00:15:41,310 When we talk about trauma, 295 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:46,390 we usually think of something terrible happening to a person 296 00:15:46,390 --> 00:15:48,850 but that's not the only trauma there is. 297 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:50,400 As the other kind of trauma may not 298 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,610 have to do with terrible things happening to you. 299 00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:55,110 - Most people look at my childhood 300 00:15:55,110 --> 00:15:57,150 and they're like: damn, you had an awesome 301 00:15:57,150 --> 00:16:02,160 childhood, and because I had everything. 302 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,660 I come from upper, upper middle class, you know, in Idaho, 303 00:16:07,660 --> 00:16:10,630 and I got everything given to me, 304 00:16:10,630 --> 00:16:12,880 but that was their way of parenting. 305 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:13,840 They'd give me everything. 306 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,170 So I'd shut up and wouldn't bug them. 307 00:16:16,170 --> 00:16:18,010 They were too busy, they were always working. 308 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,810 - So children don't get traumatized because they get hurt. 309 00:16:22,810 --> 00:16:24,520 Children get traumatized because 310 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:26,600 they're alone with the hurt. 311 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,140 - I'm a lifer inmate. 312 00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:30,560 I'm here on a first degree murder. 313 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,730 I committed my crime when I was 20-years-old. 314 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:36,820 And I asked myself what events in my life 315 00:16:36,820 --> 00:16:38,900 brought me to the point where I could think 316 00:16:38,900 --> 00:16:40,860 that it's okay to take a human life? 317 00:16:41,740 --> 00:16:43,870 And it had to deal with a lot of 318 00:16:43,870 --> 00:16:46,250 adverse childhood experiences. 319 00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:49,080 My main one as to why I started going downhill 320 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,580 was being abandoned by my father. 321 00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:53,500 I looked up to him. 322 00:16:54,380 --> 00:16:56,130 I wanted to be just like my dad. 323 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,090 He was my hero. 324 00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:01,470 When I turned eight or nine-years-old, 325 00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:05,510 he got deported to Mexico, and that devastated me. 326 00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:07,560 As a kid, my mom used to tell me, 327 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,520 Mi hijo, pray to God that he will come back, 328 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,690 but he never came. 329 00:17:16,860 --> 00:17:19,820 - A baby that you don't pick up will actually die. 330 00:17:19,820 --> 00:17:21,610 Even if you feed them and you change them 331 00:17:21,610 --> 00:17:23,280 and look after them, 332 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,700 because they get overwhelmed by their feelings 333 00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:28,540 and they get over stressed. 334 00:17:28,540 --> 00:17:33,540 And so the baby needs the mother's and the father's brain 335 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:38,920 to regulate her own brain, to regulate her emotions. 336 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,590 It's not just that you're overwhelmed. 337 00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:43,760 It's also there's nobody there to hold you. 338 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,310 (baby crying) 339 00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:50,850 There's a huge school of thought in North America 340 00:17:50,850 --> 00:17:53,440 that teaches mothers to help their babies sleep 341 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:54,730 by ignoring their crying. 342 00:17:58,480 --> 00:17:59,740 Nevermind the mother's milk, 343 00:17:59,740 --> 00:18:02,200 the infant just wants to attach, 344 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,070 because the only way the infant can attach is physically. 345 00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:15,290 When he's not being held, he's not being attached to them. 346 00:18:15,290 --> 00:18:18,130 When that's done night after night after night, 347 00:18:18,130 --> 00:18:20,090 that's traumatic. And we're still telling 348 00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:21,300 mothers to do that. 349 00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:27,800 If you actually look at genuine human needs, 350 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,640 if you connect the gut and the heart and the soul, 351 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,350 then there's nothing more normal 352 00:18:32,350 --> 00:18:34,900 than a child sleeping in the arms of a parent. 353 00:18:41,860 --> 00:18:45,820 So I've often thought about the sources of my own issues. 354 00:18:45,820 --> 00:18:49,120 An infant two months of age in Hungary, 355 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,700 when the Germans, the Nazis, marched into the country 356 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,330 and they began to exterminate the Jewish population. 357 00:18:55,330 --> 00:18:57,420 So that was my first year of life, 358 00:18:57,420 --> 00:19:00,920 with a terrorized mother, grandparents killed in Auschwitz, 359 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,300 a father away in forced labor, 360 00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:08,300 antisemitism, the ever nearing shadow of annihilation, 361 00:19:09,010 --> 00:19:11,140 and ultimately a separation from my mother. 362 00:19:12,930 --> 00:19:14,390 I was a little short of one-year-old 363 00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:17,230 when my mother had to hand me to a stranger 364 00:19:17,230 --> 00:19:18,730 in the ghetto of Budapest 365 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,530 and send me away to some relatives in hiding, 366 00:19:23,530 --> 00:19:26,280 so we didn't see each other for six weeks, 367 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,370 and she didn't know if she would live or not. 368 00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:30,580 In her diary she said: "this was 369 00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:32,830 the hardest six weeks of her life." 370 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,920 That was the experience of the first 371 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,340 nearly year and a half of my life. 372 00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:42,590 And sometimes I thought, well, gee, 373 00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:44,720 I must have received a lot of love at the same time 374 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:47,340 otherwise I'd be a lot more crazy than I actually am. 375 00:19:50,850 --> 00:19:51,850 For trauma to happen, 376 00:19:51,850 --> 00:19:54,770 you don't need second World War and you don't need racism, 377 00:19:54,770 --> 00:19:55,980 you don't need genocide, 378 00:19:55,980 --> 00:20:00,360 and you don't need the privations of war. 379 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:04,480 You just need parents who are so alienated 380 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,610 from their own gut feelings that they will let 381 00:20:06,610 --> 00:20:08,990 their infants cry without picking them up 382 00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:11,530 and that child is desperate for a relationship. 383 00:20:11,530 --> 00:20:12,530 That's all it takes. 384 00:20:20,580 --> 00:20:21,420 (footsteps approaching) 385 00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:25,510 - Well, hi. - Hi Alison. 386 00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:27,170 - Welcome. - Hi, Gabor. 387 00:20:27,170 --> 00:20:28,800 - [Alison] Welcome, Gabor. 388 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:29,630 - Wow. 389 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:31,930 What a view. 390 00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:32,930 - Thank you. 391 00:20:34,810 --> 00:20:39,810 For me being a drug addict, the deep down need to escape, 392 00:20:42,940 --> 00:20:47,440 I think it's almost into a more realistic place 393 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,620 than the insanity that we see, the chaos we see around us. 394 00:20:51,620 --> 00:20:54,700 I just wanted that place all the time. 395 00:20:56,830 --> 00:21:00,830 I can really talk for the 37 years I've been recovered 396 00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:05,630 and have had slips in the program, quote, AA. 397 00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:06,630 - [Gabor] And what's the fear? 398 00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:08,300 - Well, the fear is I'll be abandoned. 399 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:10,050 It's back with the homo sapiens, 400 00:21:10,050 --> 00:21:12,180 I'll be thrown out of the cave. 401 00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:14,300 - What is your fear of being abandoned? 402 00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:15,890 - Well naturally that I'll die 403 00:21:15,890 --> 00:21:19,140 unless I do all of the stuff for other people. 404 00:21:20,140 --> 00:21:22,100 - [Gabor] When you do all the stuff for the people, 405 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:23,310 - [Alison] Mm-hm. 406 00:21:23,310 --> 00:21:25,400 - [Gabor] what are you doing to yourself? 407 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,070 - I'm abandoning me. - Yeah. 408 00:21:27,070 --> 00:21:27,980 - Yeah. - Okay. 409 00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:30,110 - Yeah. - So you're actually enacting 410 00:21:31,030 --> 00:21:32,700 your worst fear. - Mm-hm. 411 00:21:35,490 --> 00:21:37,910 I was the youngest of five, very ambitious family, 412 00:21:37,910 --> 00:21:41,580 very successful, except everyone's an alcoholic. 413 00:21:41,580 --> 00:21:44,040 I go in the bar, they're drinking. 414 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,210 (people chattering) 415 00:21:46,210 --> 00:21:47,380 There's no room for me. 416 00:21:47,380 --> 00:21:50,050 It's like, oh, shut up Alison, shut up. 417 00:21:50,050 --> 00:21:51,430 You're wrong. You're wrong. 418 00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:53,970 So my job was to be wrong in the family. 419 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:59,140 I'll never forget my mother saying to me: 420 00:21:59,140 --> 00:22:01,850 "I just don't understand you!" 421 00:22:01,850 --> 00:22:03,940 And I was six-years-old and I thought, 422 00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:07,440 my god, if you don't understand me, I'm lost. 423 00:22:10,610 --> 00:22:13,200 - Allow me to give you another perception of you. 424 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,030 You're the one that more than others 425 00:22:15,030 --> 00:22:18,030 absorbs all the pain and stress in the family. 426 00:22:18,910 --> 00:22:23,000 And then you manifest it and they can't stand seeing it. 427 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,170 So in exiling you, they're exiling 428 00:22:25,170 --> 00:22:27,290 their own pain and stress. - Right, right. 429 00:22:31,260 --> 00:22:34,590 - As a child, we have two fundamental needs. 430 00:22:37,970 --> 00:22:40,180 One need that's with us since infancy, 431 00:22:40,180 --> 00:22:43,560 and it's absolute and it's not negotiable is attachment. 432 00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:49,270 And so the other need then is authenticity. 433 00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:53,610 Authenticity, therefore, is the connection to ourselves, 434 00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:55,950 because without authenticity, 435 00:22:55,950 --> 00:22:57,570 without a connection to our gut feelings, 436 00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:00,040 just how long do you survive out there in nature? 437 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,210 So authenticity is not some new age, 438 00:23:05,210 --> 00:23:07,460 pseudo-spiritual concept. 439 00:23:07,460 --> 00:23:09,920 It's actually a survival necessity. 440 00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,010 (balloons popping) 441 00:23:17,010 --> 00:23:18,800 (tense music) 442 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,220 What happens if in order to survive 443 00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:24,390 or to adjust to your environment, 444 00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:26,600 you have to suppress your gut feelings, 445 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,520 you have to suppress your authenticity? 446 00:23:30,150 --> 00:23:30,980 (mirror shatters) 447 00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:32,820 So normal society does not allow anger, 448 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:36,910 and the child who's angry must be separated. 449 00:23:36,910 --> 00:23:38,030 In other words, we have to threaten 450 00:23:38,030 --> 00:23:41,370 his attachment to relationships, on which is life depends 451 00:23:41,370 --> 00:23:43,250 so that he can suppress his emotions. 452 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,750 Well that child, if he learns the lesson well, 453 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:47,670 will disconnect from their anger, 454 00:23:47,670 --> 00:23:49,540 and then he's a sitting duck for depression, 455 00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,840 mental illness or for physical illness. 456 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,380 Okay, so kid is angry, but how about helping him 457 00:23:55,380 --> 00:23:57,840 move through the anger to learn how to modulate it? 458 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,760 Not to repress it, but to learn to become friends with it. 459 00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:03,560 We don't want people that are not angry. 460 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,230 We want people to know that anger 461 00:24:05,230 --> 00:24:06,770 doesn't have to be destructive. 462 00:24:08,730 --> 00:24:11,190 What were you pushing down when you were depressed? 463 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,110 - Anger. - Right. 464 00:24:14,110 --> 00:24:15,690 You were pushing down- - Rage. 465 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:16,990 - You were pushing down your anger, right? 466 00:24:16,990 --> 00:24:17,820 - [Alison] Yeah. 467 00:24:18,910 --> 00:24:21,660 - [Gabor] Can you see how why for a six-year-old 468 00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:24,620 it might be a really brilliant idea to push down the rage? 469 00:24:24,620 --> 00:24:25,450 - Yeah. 470 00:24:25,450 --> 00:24:26,290 - Why? 471 00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:29,080 - For survival. 472 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:29,920 - Exactly. 473 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:33,130 You talked about your many failures. 474 00:24:34,130 --> 00:24:35,710 I just want you to pick one. 475 00:24:35,710 --> 00:24:39,470 - The fear if left on my own, I won't get out of bed. 476 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,260 I've done that before. 477 00:24:45,850 --> 00:24:47,640 - [Gabor] And you regard that as a failure? 478 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,980 - [Alison] Falling apart I regard that as a failure. 479 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:51,100 - [Gabor] You regard that as a failure? 480 00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:51,940 - [Alison] Right. 481 00:24:51,940 --> 00:24:52,900 - Okay. 482 00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:54,650 So your failure is that you got depressed 483 00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:56,780 and as you put it, you fell apart. 484 00:24:56,780 --> 00:24:57,650 Is that the failure? 485 00:24:57,650 --> 00:24:59,280 - [Alison] Yeah. 486 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,820 - [Gabor] Just identify the age that you 487 00:25:00,820 --> 00:25:02,740 first recall being depressed then. 488 00:25:05,620 --> 00:25:08,370 - Probably about six or seven. 489 00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:09,960 - [Gabor] How old are your kids now? 490 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,500 My oldest daughter is 33, 491 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:17,340 my son is 30 and my youngest daughter's 27. 492 00:25:17,340 --> 00:25:18,170 - [Gabor] Okay. 493 00:25:19,090 --> 00:25:21,680 Choose one as a thought experiment right now, 494 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,890 and I want you to imagine them at age seven. 495 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,810 - Mm-hm. 496 00:25:25,810 --> 00:25:27,470 - Let's say they get depressed. 497 00:25:29,020 --> 00:25:33,730 Would you go to them and say: "You are total failure?" 498 00:25:34,650 --> 00:25:35,690 - [Alison] Of course not. 499 00:25:35,690 --> 00:25:37,190 - Why not? 500 00:25:37,190 --> 00:25:39,280 Notice you're calling yourself a failure? 501 00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:44,490 I'm going to say something radical to you. 502 00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:45,330 - Okay. 503 00:25:45,330 --> 00:25:47,330 - The depression was a major success, 504 00:25:48,540 --> 00:25:49,370 not a failure. 505 00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:52,580 Okay? Now I know that sounds ridiculous, but- 506 00:25:52,580 --> 00:25:54,000 - No, no. I'm listening. 507 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,090 You're telling me that having that pain 508 00:25:57,090 --> 00:26:00,720 showed me deeper inside of myself, 509 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,970 how I was abandoning myself. - Precisely. 510 00:26:03,970 --> 00:26:06,300 So maybe you want to stop calling it a failure. 511 00:26:06,300 --> 00:26:07,720 - [Alison] Mm-hm. 512 00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:11,690 - [Gabor] You go through your whole life like that 513 00:26:11,690 --> 00:26:14,560 and see how everything that you judge about yourself 514 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,610 actually served the purpose at the time. 515 00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:17,440 - Yeah. 516 00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:19,650 Yeah. 517 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,110 Mm-hm. 518 00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:24,990 - Really, isn't it simple? - It is simple. 519 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,540 - Gabor Maté, thanks very much for coming on Under the Skin. 520 00:26:31,540 --> 00:26:33,460 The reason I'm so excited to talk to you, 521 00:26:33,460 --> 00:26:35,750 the reason that I believe you're having such 522 00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:39,380 an important cultural impact is because of your 523 00:26:39,380 --> 00:26:43,550 rare compassion and insight into the world of addiction. 524 00:26:43,550 --> 00:26:45,640 When it was heroin, I would like have, 525 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,850 I would reflect. Well, after I'd used and just go, right, 526 00:26:48,850 --> 00:26:50,520 this isn't for me, this has got to stop. 527 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,310 This is not a sustainable system. 528 00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:53,600 - You think you'd never need it anymore 529 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:54,940 'cause you feel complete. - Mm. 530 00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:57,900 - And then comes the remorse of what have I done? 531 00:26:57,900 --> 00:26:59,730 And then you say I don't need to do to this ever again. 532 00:26:59,730 --> 00:27:00,570 (Russell laughs) 533 00:27:00,570 --> 00:27:01,860 And then by the time I'm home, 534 00:27:01,860 --> 00:27:02,990 I'm running back to the store again 535 00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:05,780 to get the next thing that I didn't buy. 536 00:27:05,780 --> 00:27:08,990 In the life of every person who's ever been addicted 537 00:27:08,990 --> 00:27:11,790 and ever will be addicted, there's always trauma. 538 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:18,500 An addiction is any behavior 539 00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:21,630 that a person finds relief in the short term 540 00:27:21,630 --> 00:27:24,670 and craves but suffers negative consequences 541 00:27:24,670 --> 00:27:26,340 and cannot give it up. 542 00:27:26,340 --> 00:27:27,180 There are so many addictions. 543 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:30,970 Could be drugs, obviously, alcohol, nicotine. 544 00:27:30,970 --> 00:27:33,680 Could also be sex, could be gambling, 545 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,520 could be shopping, could be eating, 546 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,310 could be pornography, could be the internet, 547 00:27:39,310 --> 00:27:44,320 could be gaming, could be work, could be relationships. 548 00:27:44,650 --> 00:27:46,650 That's what an addiction is. 549 00:27:52,290 --> 00:27:54,870 First issue is not why the addiction 550 00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:55,960 but why the pain? 551 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,580 (woman sobbing) 552 00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:04,300 (melancholy music) 553 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,890 (water splashing) 554 00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:14,520 In our society there are two myths around addiction. 555 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,020 The pernicious line is the belief 556 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,390 that addiction is a choice and that the decisions 557 00:28:18,390 --> 00:28:19,900 that arise out of addictions 558 00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:23,150 are therefore a matter of individual culpability. 559 00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:25,400 And so therefore addicts for the most part 560 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,030 are punished for being addicted. 561 00:28:28,110 --> 00:28:29,950 Now the other belief around addiction, 562 00:28:29,950 --> 00:28:32,410 but still misleading, is that it's an inherited disease, 563 00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:34,580 it's a biological disorder of the brain. 564 00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:36,580 That belief is more humane, 565 00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:38,040 much more than the choice belief, 566 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,580 because at least if somebody inherits a disease, 567 00:28:40,580 --> 00:28:42,710 they're not to be punished for it 568 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:44,800 but they are to be provided 569 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,800 with treatment as with any disease. 570 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,010 However, it's also misleading because it ignores 571 00:28:51,010 --> 00:28:52,800 why people really get addicted, 572 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,100 which has got nothing to do with disease. 573 00:28:55,100 --> 00:28:58,390 It's among the normal human responses to trauma. 574 00:28:58,390 --> 00:28:59,230 When people are suffering, 575 00:28:59,230 --> 00:29:00,900 they want to escape their suffering. 576 00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:01,860 That's normal. 577 00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:05,570 (soft music) 578 00:29:29,670 --> 00:29:31,430 - My name is Tuta Ponchiao Chi. 579 00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:33,140 I'm 43-years-old. 580 00:29:33,140 --> 00:29:36,350 I come from a family of Thai restaurant owners. 581 00:29:36,350 --> 00:29:38,890 I moved away when I was 14. 582 00:29:38,890 --> 00:29:40,770 I was never good enough. 583 00:29:40,770 --> 00:29:43,190 I mean, I think if I had parents who didn't really care 584 00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:46,110 and was lenient, no, I don't think I would have 585 00:29:46,110 --> 00:29:49,320 really got right into it and really got addicted. 586 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,860 I might've just, you know, tried it once or twice, 587 00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:54,910 but I think the pressure was on from the upbringing 588 00:29:54,910 --> 00:29:57,200 and having to feel like I had to achieve 589 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,370 and be the best of what I did, an A student. 590 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:03,460 And so when I moved away, I really wanted to prove 591 00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:05,790 not just myself but to them that I was 592 00:30:05,790 --> 00:30:07,000 more than what they saw. 593 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,090 You know, I did apply to Stanford University. 594 00:30:10,090 --> 00:30:12,260 That was my number one choice. 595 00:30:12,260 --> 00:30:14,300 I was disappointed I didn't get in. 596 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:17,220 And San Francisco State University was my second choice 597 00:30:17,220 --> 00:30:20,060 and while there I did do the same things 598 00:30:20,060 --> 00:30:22,020 that I was doing when I was in high school, 599 00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:24,940 playing for the NCWA, singing choir. 600 00:30:27,690 --> 00:30:30,030 With doing so many things, pledging sororities 601 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:32,240 and doing, being different club members, 602 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,990 I'm saying I was just trying to find my way in the world. 603 00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:38,490 And then I started to work at the nightclubs here. 604 00:30:38,490 --> 00:30:41,450 And so I think that's when I really evolved 605 00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:43,040 because I wanted to do everything. 606 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,330 I wanted to go to school, 607 00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:47,590 I wanted to work, but I needed to do homework as well. 608 00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:49,670 So the pressure was on then. 609 00:30:49,670 --> 00:30:52,170 So then it got into heavier drugs, 610 00:30:52,170 --> 00:30:53,760 so I needed the meth to stay up. 611 00:30:57,180 --> 00:31:00,010 - I think our society just doesn't understand addiction. 612 00:31:00,010 --> 00:31:02,060 Without the addiction, they felt incomplete, 613 00:31:02,060 --> 00:31:03,890 they felt this huge emptiness inside. 614 00:31:04,770 --> 00:31:08,980 It's as if the addiction was to complete themselves, 615 00:31:08,980 --> 00:31:13,990 and to somehow temporarily cover up the emptiness. 616 00:31:16,530 --> 00:31:19,580 Why the finger-pointing, why the judgments 617 00:31:19,580 --> 00:31:22,450 on a particular group of people who are addicted 618 00:31:22,450 --> 00:31:24,460 who happen to use substances? 619 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:29,540 My first job that I ever had as a physician in Vancouver 620 00:31:29,540 --> 00:31:30,800 after I did my internship was actually 621 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,010 in the downtown east side of Vancouver. 622 00:31:33,010 --> 00:31:34,920 It's North America's most concentrated 623 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,510 and most dramatic area of drug use 624 00:31:37,510 --> 00:31:40,260 where there's more people injecting 625 00:31:40,260 --> 00:31:44,390 and ingesting and inhaling all kinds of substances 626 00:31:44,390 --> 00:31:46,890 than anywhere else in the planet. 627 00:31:46,890 --> 00:31:49,980 And I go this old, broken down hotel 628 00:31:49,980 --> 00:31:52,610 with cracking paint on the walls 629 00:31:52,610 --> 00:31:55,610 and there's strange people walking in and out, 630 00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:58,280 and I felt totally at home right away. 631 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,830 And after two years, I shifted my full-time work 632 00:32:00,830 --> 00:32:02,120 to the downtown east side. 633 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,580 So I worked there for 12 years. 634 00:32:07,540 --> 00:32:11,210 They all had suffered tremendous torment as children, 635 00:32:11,210 --> 00:32:14,050 which also meant that their addictions were extreme. 636 00:32:14,050 --> 00:32:17,970 They were quite willing to sacrifice love, life, 637 00:32:17,970 --> 00:32:21,720 relationship, health just for the next hit. 638 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,180 They were that desperate to escape from reality 639 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:26,480 because reality had been so cruel to them. 640 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:30,190 We were dealing with people with severe infections. 641 00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:31,940 They would inject drugs. 642 00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:33,820 That would give them abscesses, 643 00:32:33,820 --> 00:32:37,030 not only in their skin or their muscles, 644 00:32:37,030 --> 00:32:39,280 but also in their brains, 645 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,700 in their spinal cord, in their joints. 646 00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:44,660 So they have to be hospitalized, 647 00:32:44,660 --> 00:32:46,290 which is the only facility where you can deliver 648 00:32:46,290 --> 00:32:48,790 IV antibiotics several times a day. 649 00:32:48,790 --> 00:32:50,670 But they were users, so there'd be 650 00:32:50,670 --> 00:32:53,000 always absconding from the hospital 651 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,670 and even using the IV lines to inject through. 652 00:32:55,670 --> 00:32:57,840 So inevitably they would be kicked out of hospital, 653 00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,180 which means that their life-threatening infections 654 00:33:00,180 --> 00:33:01,260 would be untreated. 655 00:33:02,930 --> 00:33:04,430 This is how I met Joey Carter. 656 00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:08,350 I think I pushed him across an intersection once 657 00:33:08,350 --> 00:33:09,730 in his wheelchair, maybe that's the first time 658 00:33:09,730 --> 00:33:10,770 we actually met. 659 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:14,520 - And you helped me out and you said, what are you doing? 660 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,230 Enough's enough. 661 00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:19,150 I'm going to admit you to CTC-R, are you going to go there? 662 00:33:20,030 --> 00:33:22,410 And I was like, well, what about my addiction? 663 00:33:23,570 --> 00:33:25,910 And then you said, well, what are you using? 664 00:33:25,910 --> 00:33:29,120 And I said, well, I've been using morphine and m-eslon. 665 00:33:30,250 --> 00:33:31,670 I said, how many will you give me a day? 666 00:33:31,670 --> 00:33:33,880 You said as many as you have in your pocket. 667 00:33:40,420 --> 00:33:42,050 - By meeting people where they're at 668 00:33:42,050 --> 00:33:45,050 and treating them like human beings 669 00:33:45,050 --> 00:33:46,640 and not trying to change them 670 00:33:47,890 --> 00:33:50,730 actually opens up the possibility 671 00:33:50,730 --> 00:33:52,650 of transformation for them. 672 00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:54,480 And Joey's a plain example. 673 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:58,440 - 'Cause they had come in like every four hours 674 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,360 to give me my morphine. - Yeah. 675 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,860 - And I wasn't needing it. 676 00:34:02,860 --> 00:34:04,740 I was saving it, right. 677 00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:07,870 And I woke up and there is like morphine all over the bed 678 00:34:07,870 --> 00:34:09,450 and I thought it was in heaven. 679 00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:11,710 (laughing) 680 00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:13,790 - I do recall your poetry, 681 00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:17,000 and you were a very, a very avid writer. 682 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:17,840 - Yeah. 683 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,590 - And you've shared some of that with me. 684 00:34:20,670 --> 00:34:24,300 Is there one that, you know, that you can recite now? 685 00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:25,140 - Yeah. 686 00:34:26,010 --> 00:34:27,100 It goes (clears throat) 687 00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:31,100 I misbehave when I crave to push the venom in my veins. 688 00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:33,100 I lose all control of my inner soul 689 00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:35,230 and my demons hold the reins. 690 00:34:35,230 --> 00:34:38,570 I deceive whoever believes, I twist their open trust. 691 00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:40,780 With nefarious precision and tunnel vision, 692 00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:42,900 I pursue the venom with lust. 693 00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:44,240 With the desire so strong, 694 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:46,910 I forget all bonds hurting the ones I adore, 695 00:34:46,910 --> 00:34:49,160 And even though they love me, they move on from me 696 00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,040 to let me fight my war. 697 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,870 Uncontrollable, I'm inconsolable, 698 00:34:52,870 --> 00:34:54,710 slowly I'm dying inside. 699 00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:56,630 A glutton of such, I've used too much, 700 00:34:56,630 --> 00:34:58,210 now there's no life in my eyes. 701 00:34:59,130 --> 00:34:59,960 - Wow. 702 00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:03,930 (soft piano music) 703 00:35:10,180 --> 00:35:12,890 I wanna talk to you guys 704 00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:14,310 about why you think you got addicted? 705 00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:16,810 Like, what did it do for you in the short term 706 00:35:16,810 --> 00:35:19,230 that you wanted it, like you appreciated it? 707 00:35:19,230 --> 00:35:20,610 - The one thing that I've learned 708 00:35:20,610 --> 00:35:23,530 was gratification through sex. 709 00:35:23,530 --> 00:35:25,110 It would pay my rent, it would pay my food, 710 00:35:25,110 --> 00:35:27,160 it would pay my clothes. 711 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,240 But it was also feeling loved. 712 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:31,330 - [Gabor] Feeling loved? Like... 713 00:35:31,330 --> 00:35:34,410 - Having that desire for somebody to care and- 714 00:35:34,410 --> 00:35:36,420 - And want you. - Want you. 715 00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:38,420 - I wouldn't be able to have a sexual relationship 716 00:35:38,420 --> 00:35:41,670 if I wasn't using, because I couldn't feel anything 717 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:43,210 towards the other person. 718 00:35:43,210 --> 00:35:44,420 - It made you feel more alive? 719 00:35:44,420 --> 00:35:46,970 - Yeah. It made me feel more in tune. 720 00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:48,840 - Yeah. - Yeah, like that's... 721 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,180 And I used it to have feelings. 722 00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:52,270 - I didn't feel pretty, 723 00:35:52,270 --> 00:35:53,640 I didn't feel like... 724 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,100 And as soon as I would do a little bit of drugs, 725 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:58,520 my self-esteem would instantly go up. 726 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,530 - I did so much sports and was on such a strict schedule 727 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,280 that when I started to use in like grade eight, 728 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,410 grade nine, like, I was free. 729 00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:12,450 - So freedom. 730 00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:15,330 Sense of aliveness. 731 00:36:15,330 --> 00:36:17,000 Completion. Self-esteem. 732 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,880 These are all wonderful things, aren't they? 733 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,050 When they talk about addiction being a bad choice, 734 00:36:23,050 --> 00:36:24,010 I say no, it isn't. 735 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:26,840 It's actually a solution to a problem. 736 00:36:31,350 --> 00:36:33,220 If we understand that the addiction 737 00:36:33,220 --> 00:36:35,140 is not the primary problem, 738 00:36:35,140 --> 00:36:37,060 but really a response to trauma, 739 00:36:37,060 --> 00:36:40,060 then it becomes obvious that in order to heal addiction, 740 00:36:40,060 --> 00:36:41,520 you have to heal the trauma. 741 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,190 But it means that you see the wound 742 00:36:43,190 --> 00:36:44,530 that's driving that person. 743 00:36:47,530 --> 00:36:50,280 (birds chirping) 744 00:36:51,620 --> 00:36:54,990 (melancholy music) 745 00:36:54,990 --> 00:36:58,790 Underneath that traumatized persona, 746 00:36:58,790 --> 00:37:01,040 there's the healthy individual who has never 747 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,880 found expression in this life 748 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,920 because they were never given 749 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,840 the venue for expression, never given the relationships, 750 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,760 in which they could, their all 751 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,680 authentic humanity could be expressed. 752 00:37:15,470 --> 00:37:17,890 (soft music) 753 00:37:21,980 --> 00:37:24,820 Are we free? Are we conscious? 754 00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:28,440 Are we making a decision based on full awareness 755 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,950 or are we driven by unconscious dynamics 756 00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:35,660 that we've inherited or that we developed 757 00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:38,620 as a response to childhood trauma? 758 00:37:39,710 --> 00:37:42,960 Well, insofar as we're not conscious, we are not free. 759 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,720 We have then a social structure that induces trauma 760 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:53,970 in a lot of people, 761 00:37:53,970 --> 00:37:56,140 therefore it induces escapist, 762 00:37:56,140 --> 00:37:58,430 addictive behaviors in a lot of people, 763 00:37:58,430 --> 00:38:01,560 and those inner trends line up 764 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,400 with how society looks like on the outside. 765 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,110 So therefore all this looks perfectly normal 766 00:38:06,110 --> 00:38:07,190 and perfectly natural. 767 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,650 Fundamentally the messages is that with our minds 768 00:38:11,650 --> 00:38:12,570 we create the world. 769 00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:17,580 So if I have a worldview that the world is a horrible place, 770 00:38:17,830 --> 00:38:19,660 then I'm going to live in a world where 771 00:38:19,660 --> 00:38:23,370 I have to be aggressive, suspicious, competitive 772 00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:25,420 and make myself as big as possible 773 00:38:25,420 --> 00:38:27,040 so I don't get eaten up. 774 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,710 So I have to be grandiose and cunning 775 00:38:29,710 --> 00:38:31,170 because that's the world I'm living in. 776 00:38:31,170 --> 00:38:33,510 And these are the people that our society 777 00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:38,220 rewards with power. (dramatic music) 778 00:38:51,690 --> 00:38:54,360 - Do you think that the inability of these individuals 779 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,870 to manifest real change is a demonstration 780 00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:59,200 that what we have are deeply entrenched 781 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,620 and traumatized systems that are predicated 782 00:39:02,620 --> 00:39:06,460 on unconscious choices, unconscious drives 783 00:39:06,460 --> 00:39:09,380 and that the system cannot and will not 784 00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:12,760 alter itself from within itself, but will sustain itself, 785 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,760 and it's only sort of new, radical ideas that can alter it? 786 00:39:17,850 --> 00:39:20,100 - That's exactly what I'm saying. 787 00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:23,060 Large segments of the economy survive 788 00:39:23,060 --> 00:39:25,730 because people buy things that give them temporary pleasure 789 00:39:25,730 --> 00:39:27,730 but do them no good whatsoever in the long-term, 790 00:39:27,730 --> 00:39:29,320 in fact are even harmful. 791 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,440 I mean, we're going so far as to destroy the earth 792 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,690 because of our addiction. 793 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,700 (tense music) 794 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,630 The disconnect from the body of the earth 795 00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:56,590 really has to do with the disconnect from our own bodies. 796 00:39:56,590 --> 00:39:58,260 The two are together. 797 00:39:58,260 --> 00:39:59,850 And the exploitation of the earth 798 00:39:59,850 --> 00:40:01,970 as if it was something separate from us 799 00:40:01,970 --> 00:40:06,100 has a lot to do with patriarchal domination. 800 00:40:06,100 --> 00:40:07,560 I mean, we talk about mother earth. 801 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,400 Look what we're doing to mother. 802 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:10,900 It's a mother hatred almost. 803 00:40:16,030 --> 00:40:19,990 It speaks to a blindness and a passivity 804 00:40:19,990 --> 00:40:23,410 which itself is a marker of societal and collective trauma. 805 00:40:28,830 --> 00:40:31,290 Our schools are full of kids with learning difficulties, 806 00:40:31,290 --> 00:40:33,960 mental health issues that are trauma-based, 807 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,630 but the average teacher never gets 808 00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:37,380 a single lecture on trauma. 809 00:40:37,380 --> 00:40:39,720 They're fundamentally working with 810 00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,050 an essential lack of information. 811 00:40:42,050 --> 00:40:45,770 I actually barely mentioned the criminal justice system 812 00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:48,560 has no understanding or even acquaintance 813 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,310 with the concept of trauma. 814 00:40:50,310 --> 00:40:52,440 In fact, they often create policies 815 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,440 that further deepen people's trauma. 816 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:57,820 That these institutions need to be informed 817 00:40:57,820 --> 00:41:01,620 of what trauma is and how to respond to it. 818 00:41:02,990 --> 00:41:04,950 - I went between custodies of different 819 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,540 states and counties... 820 00:41:09,580 --> 00:41:10,920 Since 18. 821 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,710 I struggled with addiction and they were sending me 822 00:41:13,710 --> 00:41:17,170 to these places to get the help that you needed. 823 00:41:17,170 --> 00:41:19,010 I had nothing but the authorities telling me 824 00:41:19,010 --> 00:41:21,550 that it was my fault, my fault, my fault, 825 00:41:21,550 --> 00:41:22,760 because you're choosing this, you know 826 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,560 and I can't keep choosing it. 827 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,100 And you're supposed to trust and believe in these people. 828 00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:29,020 California industrialized prison. 829 00:41:31,350 --> 00:41:33,230 - Trauma doesn't know of color, 830 00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:35,230 trauma doesn't know of age, 831 00:41:35,230 --> 00:41:37,150 trauma doesn't know a tax bracket, 832 00:41:37,150 --> 00:41:38,690 trauma doesn't know any of these things. 833 00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:41,160 Anybody can be traumatizing anybody. 834 00:41:42,490 --> 00:41:44,490 Symptoms of trauma: 835 00:41:44,490 --> 00:41:46,910 nightmares and night terrors. 836 00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:48,330 - [Man 1] Inability to love. 837 00:41:49,660 --> 00:41:51,460 - Addictive behavior. 838 00:41:51,460 --> 00:41:52,920 - [Man 2] Insomnia. 839 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:53,750 - Depression. 840 00:41:55,170 --> 00:41:56,000 - Shame. 841 00:41:57,550 --> 00:41:59,130 - That's not who you are, 842 00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:02,930 but it's a symptom of being traumatized, 843 00:42:03,970 --> 00:42:05,760 and we're here to heal each other. 844 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,140 We heal in community. 845 00:42:10,140 --> 00:42:11,560 When I do these circles with anybody, 846 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,230 when they see the extent of childhood trauma in themselves, 847 00:42:15,230 --> 00:42:19,530 but also in the people around them, it's a shift. 848 00:42:19,530 --> 00:42:23,610 It takes the othering out. It actually brings a human in. 849 00:42:23,610 --> 00:42:27,200 And that, as a society, is one of the imperatives 850 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,950 that we need to get to. 851 00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:30,080 We gotta start seeing each other 852 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,750 for what happened to us and not what's wrong with us. 853 00:42:34,790 --> 00:42:37,380 (cars honking) 854 00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:42,760 (upbeat, bright music) 855 00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:54,230 (soft music) 856 00:42:58,020 --> 00:42:59,940 - My name is Romie Nottage. 857 00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:02,490 I am the senior director of San Francisco 858 00:43:02,490 --> 00:43:05,610 and social innovation for Downtown Streets Team, 859 00:43:05,610 --> 00:43:08,410 and that is changing the lives of people 860 00:43:08,410 --> 00:43:11,790 who are currently homeless through the dignity of work. 861 00:43:13,580 --> 00:43:15,670 Labeling people as just drug addicts, 862 00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:17,420 like, it's deeper than that. 863 00:43:17,420 --> 00:43:20,800 They probably at a younger age have been reinforced 864 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,430 that their value is not as significant as others. 865 00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:29,390 The pain is the root cause of people 866 00:43:29,390 --> 00:43:31,470 trying to feel comfortable in this world. 867 00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:35,520 Using street drugs is a method. 868 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,400 It is a behavior to support something that is uncomfortable. 869 00:43:45,950 --> 00:43:48,030 - I was homeless for about 15 years. 870 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,240 It is a survival of the fittest. 871 00:43:53,410 --> 00:43:56,500 I had three kids on the street while homeless, 872 00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,130 walking around, no shoes, selling drugs, doing drugs, 873 00:43:59,130 --> 00:44:01,130 hoping they would miscarry. 874 00:44:01,130 --> 00:44:03,050 All the babies came out with everything. 875 00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:05,970 Meth, crystal, cocaine, everything you could think of. 876 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,550 I did utilize those three moments in time 877 00:44:10,550 --> 00:44:14,310 where I had those babies to just rest up 878 00:44:14,310 --> 00:44:16,690 in a nice place and eat a hot meal. 879 00:44:16,690 --> 00:44:20,520 Just basically took a shower those three times, 880 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,690 'cause while I was homeless, most of us don't shower. 881 00:44:23,690 --> 00:44:25,110 Maybe once a year, if that. 882 00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:30,410 But I was lucky I had the same foster mom, all three boys. 883 00:44:30,410 --> 00:44:32,910 Albert, Jetson and James are all thriving. 884 00:44:32,910 --> 00:44:34,370 They're very healthy. 885 00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:35,870 I did fight for them. Don't get me wrong. 886 00:44:35,870 --> 00:44:36,870 I did try to fight for them, 887 00:44:36,870 --> 00:44:39,580 but I wasn't ready to give up the drug life. 888 00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:45,590 - It was fall, so it was the rain season. 889 00:44:45,590 --> 00:44:48,760 I just remember that constant worry 890 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,640 about where was I gonna go that night? 891 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,680 Would I find shelter? 892 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,180 'Cause there's no where to go, right? 893 00:44:54,180 --> 00:44:58,100 The people that did love me just said you know what? 894 00:44:58,100 --> 00:45:01,150 We're not going to stand by anymore while you kill yourself. 895 00:45:01,150 --> 00:45:02,440 We can't do it. 896 00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:03,650 It's hurting more. 897 00:45:03,650 --> 00:45:06,320 We're dying a harder death than you are. 898 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,490 And they just scattered from my life. 899 00:45:12,030 --> 00:45:13,490 I was utterly alone. 900 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,330 - I've been in the city on the streets now 901 00:45:22,330 --> 00:45:24,170 for four years. 902 00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:25,880 Went to college on my GI bill. 903 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,010 I was in the army for a total of 11 years, 904 00:45:28,010 --> 00:45:30,470 then I got diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma 905 00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:31,970 and I retired. 906 00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:35,680 My PTSD comes from experiences with 907 00:45:36,850 --> 00:45:39,640 trying to beat this monkey on my back, you know? 908 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,440 I've had a beautiful home and vehicles 909 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,480 and wife and kids and thrown it all away for drugs. 910 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:52,320 - So when you pass by someone homeless on the street, 911 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:55,120 that is such a painful world to live in, 912 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,080 and a very important thing to do is acknowledge them 913 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,750 and not pretending or literally thinking 914 00:46:02,750 --> 00:46:05,210 that no one's sitting right there. 915 00:46:05,210 --> 00:46:06,630 How are you doing? 916 00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:07,550 Hanging in there? 917 00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:10,670 Had a rough sleep last night? 918 00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:12,470 You stay in the TL? - I do. 919 00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:14,760 - Yeah, cool. How long have you been here? 920 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,180 - I moved here from Atlanta February the 7th. 921 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,440 - The number one thing that people 922 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,900 who are experiencing homelessness suffer from 923 00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:25,480 is feeling looked down on. 924 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,230 It's like people just passing by them, 925 00:46:29,230 --> 00:46:31,530 not acknowledging their experience. 926 00:46:31,530 --> 00:46:35,070 That forms an identity that is internalized. 927 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:38,700 Their sense of self has been attacked. 928 00:46:38,700 --> 00:46:41,660 Their dignity has been completely reinforced 929 00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:45,460 as non-existent every single day. 930 00:46:45,460 --> 00:46:48,880 Humanization of homelessness is where we need to start 931 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,420 because we're working with people, 932 00:46:51,420 --> 00:46:53,220 we're working with nervous systems, 933 00:46:53,220 --> 00:46:58,180 we are working with deflated and traumatized senses of self. 934 00:47:03,350 --> 00:47:05,400 To be honest, if I lived in that world, 935 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,020 I would want to use, too. 936 00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:08,520 It'd get me out of it. 937 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,650 It'd make me feel not like that for a minute. 938 00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:17,780 (knocks) - Hey, Duane, you home? 939 00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:20,790 It's Tessa. (soft music) 940 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,960 Hey, how are you? - Hi, how are you? 941 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,830 - I'm Tessa. 942 00:47:27,830 --> 00:47:31,710 I'm a harm reduction specialist at Abode Housing Services. 943 00:47:31,710 --> 00:47:34,680 I help people move through the pain of their addiction 944 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:36,130 and regain dignity. 945 00:47:36,130 --> 00:47:38,800 So, oh my gosh, your place looks amazing. 946 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,930 I took this job because of the harm reduction approach, 947 00:47:41,930 --> 00:47:43,980 where people get housing. 948 00:47:43,980 --> 00:47:45,560 You don't have an agenda. 949 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,060 You must do this or that in order to access housing, 950 00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:51,610 you're worthy of housing because housing should be a right. 951 00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:55,240 When people get housed after they've been outdoors 952 00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:59,030 for seven, 15, 25 years, whatever the number is, 953 00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:02,080 you're alone. 954 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,210 You don't have survival to do, 955 00:48:07,210 --> 00:48:09,290 so this is when I'm starting to see 956 00:48:09,290 --> 00:48:11,880 everybody's pain start surfacing 957 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,510 and people are starting to have, you know, 958 00:48:14,510 --> 00:48:17,720 more challenges and emotional challenges 959 00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:19,340 than they did out on the streets. 960 00:48:22,350 --> 00:48:24,850 Dr. Gabor Maté, when I found his teachings, 961 00:48:24,850 --> 00:48:27,270 and specifically The Realm of the Hungry Ghost 962 00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:30,360 kind of changed my outlook in life. 963 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,690 I'm very dear to this work. 964 00:48:32,690 --> 00:48:35,440 (rain pattering) 965 00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:43,990 - I'm Gabor's wife and I have been for close to 50 years. 966 00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:52,880 I met Gabor in October of 1967 967 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,420 when I was a first year student at UBC. 968 00:48:56,420 --> 00:48:58,470 I saw in the student newspaper that they were 969 00:48:58,470 --> 00:49:02,970 looking for cartoonists and I draw. 970 00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:06,930 I walked into the small room and he's sitting there 971 00:49:06,930 --> 00:49:09,440 reading a book and I said (clears throat): 972 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,900 "My name's Rae. 973 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:14,480 I'm supposed to draw you. 974 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,490 Would you mind just sitting there?" 975 00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:19,360 This is it. 976 00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:25,120 I did this before I knew who he was, 977 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:26,750 before I'd had a conversation. 978 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,170 What a mysterious guy. 979 00:49:30,170 --> 00:49:31,710 Dark, you know? 980 00:49:31,710 --> 00:49:32,880 Intense. 981 00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:37,460 He was so interesting to me. 982 00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:43,050 - I've always been a rebel. 983 00:49:43,050 --> 00:49:47,140 I mean, in communist Hungary, in grade six, 984 00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:49,520 my teacher wrote in my report card that: 985 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,110 you should watch it because he incites the other students. 986 00:49:53,110 --> 00:49:54,480 (chuckles) 987 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,860 But so that tendency to resist arbitrariness, 988 00:49:58,820 --> 00:50:02,200 what I'm being told and what the official line is. 989 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,070 So I'm really not one for group-think, 990 00:50:04,070 --> 00:50:07,910 and it really helps me to see through all kinds 991 00:50:07,910 --> 00:50:11,290 of nonsense that people accept without questioning. 992 00:50:14,460 --> 00:50:16,880 On a personal level, I'm also a contradiction. 993 00:50:18,130 --> 00:50:21,470 My longing is really a sense of being excluded 994 00:50:21,470 --> 00:50:25,050 from something, and a sense of impossibility, 995 00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:27,930 and I very easily go there. 996 00:50:27,930 --> 00:50:29,350 I mean, that is my baseline. 997 00:50:31,060 --> 00:50:33,310 - Very early in my meeting with Gabor, 998 00:50:33,310 --> 00:50:37,110 I saw clearly the light that he was 999 00:50:37,110 --> 00:50:38,860 and the dark that he was. 1000 00:50:38,860 --> 00:50:43,070 So I saw brilliance and I saw real, 1001 00:50:43,070 --> 00:50:45,620 I guess trauma is the word I'd use now, 1002 00:50:45,620 --> 00:50:47,120 but I didn't know then. 1003 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:48,160 To me it was dark. 1004 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,080 And of course, by then I knew he was, 1005 00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,170 directly had been in the Holocaust, 1006 00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:57,000 but it was going to be my job to heal him, 1007 00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:58,380 to bring out that light. 1008 00:51:02,970 --> 00:51:04,970 I really believe that the purpose of marriage 1009 00:51:04,970 --> 00:51:07,390 is to actually go back to the original trauma, 1010 00:51:07,390 --> 00:51:10,680 which comes from the family. 1011 00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:14,270 I married a man who was so much like my father. 1012 00:51:17,310 --> 00:51:19,270 - My scientific interest as well 1013 00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:21,400 has been having to deal with my own trauma 1014 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,110 because in my 40s, I was a very successful physician 1015 00:51:25,110 --> 00:51:28,280 and I was a national columnist for a Canadian newspaper, 1016 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,200 and I was the head of the palliative care department 1017 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:31,750 at a major Canadian hospital, 1018 00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:36,000 and I was depressed and alienated, in a difficult marriage, 1019 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,170 and my children were scared of me 1020 00:51:38,170 --> 00:51:40,420 and I didn't like being alive. 1021 00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,800 - Well, there's just nothing more frustrating 1022 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,470 to be in a situation, to see him out there 1023 00:51:47,470 --> 00:51:51,560 doing this amazing work, just the healing and the wisdom 1024 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,350 and the support, and then come home 1025 00:51:54,350 --> 00:51:59,360 and be completely exhausted, irritable. 1026 00:52:00,110 --> 00:52:02,320 And then I get the negativity. 1027 00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:12,910 I have to be me, I have to be authentic. 1028 00:52:15,580 --> 00:52:17,170 My nervous system is so wired 1029 00:52:17,170 --> 00:52:20,340 that if I'm not authentic to myself, I'm sick. 1030 00:52:20,340 --> 00:52:21,540 I have a stomach ache. 1031 00:52:21,540 --> 00:52:22,800 I can't sleep. 1032 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,340 I'm anxious. 1033 00:52:24,340 --> 00:52:27,470 And it's usually here. (chuckles) 1034 00:52:27,470 --> 00:52:29,800 It's usually something in this dynamic. 1035 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:30,800 - Yeah. - Right? 1036 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,890 - When I would compulsively shop for compact discs 1037 00:52:33,890 --> 00:52:34,850 and lie about it. 1038 00:52:35,730 --> 00:52:37,310 Rae would get neck aches. 1039 00:52:37,310 --> 00:52:38,980 And after a while she figured out if I got a neck ache, 1040 00:52:38,980 --> 00:52:39,900 this guy is lying to me. 1041 00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:41,190 - He doesn't get away with anything. 1042 00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:42,020 - Yeah. 1043 00:52:46,530 --> 00:52:51,320 - How are you, Gabor Maté, not processing your trauma? 1044 00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:52,160 - How am I not processing it? 1045 00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,700 - Yeah, because like, if you are not doing it, 1046 00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:55,080 that's like Steve Jobs going: 1047 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:56,660 "I couldn't get my phone to work." 1048 00:52:57,540 --> 00:53:00,080 - That's another traumatized person, by the way, 1049 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,750 whose cancer is everything to do with 1050 00:53:01,750 --> 00:53:03,590 the childhood trauma that he experienced, 1051 00:53:03,590 --> 00:53:06,460 but that's another book and another story. 1052 00:53:06,460 --> 00:53:08,470 - So you sort of are a bit like in the Matrix, 1053 00:53:08,470 --> 00:53:10,890 when Neo sees everything's made out of numbers, 1054 00:53:10,890 --> 00:53:13,760 you look at people and you see all their trauma and damage? 1055 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:14,760 - That's what I see. 1056 00:53:15,850 --> 00:53:17,770 Until I realized that I was traumatized, 1057 00:53:17,770 --> 00:53:20,560 which really wasn't until my late 30s and mid-40s, 1058 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,020 and began to realize that it didn't have to be this way, 1059 00:53:23,020 --> 00:53:23,980 that there were reasons for it, 1060 00:53:23,980 --> 00:53:25,780 and I started looking for those reasons. 1061 00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:27,990 So I started waking up fairly late in life. 1062 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,450 I was a driven, workaholic doctor. 1063 00:53:31,450 --> 00:53:33,870 Now why was a driven workaholic doctor? 1064 00:53:33,870 --> 00:53:35,080 Because the message I got as an infant 1065 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,290 is that the world didn't want me. 1066 00:53:36,290 --> 00:53:37,910 Now how do you deal with not being wanted? 1067 00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:39,580 You make yourself needed. 1068 00:53:39,580 --> 00:53:40,790 So if you're traumatized 1069 00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:42,330 and if you don't think you're lovable, 1070 00:53:42,330 --> 00:53:44,090 my god, go to medical school. 1071 00:53:44,090 --> 00:53:46,170 Now they're going to want you all the time. 1072 00:53:46,170 --> 00:53:47,670 When they're dying, when they're being born, 1073 00:53:47,670 --> 00:53:50,840 every moment in between, and that's highly addictive, 1074 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,010 because you get the validation all the time. 1075 00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:58,100 A lot of people that go into medicine 1076 00:53:58,100 --> 00:53:59,850 the last thing they want is to be open and vulnerable. 1077 00:53:59,850 --> 00:54:01,270 In fact, what they want is the authority 1078 00:54:01,270 --> 00:54:03,060 of the white coat and the stethoscope. 1079 00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:05,400 And medical school is very hard on people. 1080 00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,650 You might look at it almost 1081 00:54:06,650 --> 00:54:08,780 as a selection process that weeds out 1082 00:54:08,780 --> 00:54:10,530 the people that are too vulnerable. 1083 00:54:10,530 --> 00:54:15,030 The long hours, the deference to unreasonable authority, 1084 00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:19,370 the stress that you are willing to subject yourself to, 1085 00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:22,420 and these are the people that, like me, become physicians. 1086 00:54:22,420 --> 00:54:25,290 So that selects out against the vulnerable. 1087 00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:29,300 I went to medical school here at UBC. 1088 00:54:30,170 --> 00:54:33,800 At that time, we did not get a single lecture of trauma. 1089 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,220 We did not even hear the word. 1090 00:54:36,220 --> 00:54:38,970 They still don't hear the word trauma in medical school. 1091 00:54:44,810 --> 00:54:47,230 So I've looked at the whole range of human experience 1092 00:54:47,230 --> 00:54:49,980 from birth to death because I've worked in obstetrics 1093 00:54:49,980 --> 00:54:51,780 and I've worked in palliative care 1094 00:54:51,780 --> 00:54:54,030 and everything else in between. 1095 00:54:54,030 --> 00:54:57,030 The modern medical paradigm in practice 1096 00:54:57,030 --> 00:54:58,870 separates mind from the body 1097 00:54:58,870 --> 00:55:01,120 and it separates the individual from the environment. 1098 00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,250 So when you look at, there's an epidemic 1099 00:55:03,250 --> 00:55:04,750 of asthma right now in North America, 1100 00:55:04,750 --> 00:55:07,210 more and more people, kids are being diagnosed with it, 1101 00:55:07,210 --> 00:55:09,630 it's all about, or largely about, 1102 00:55:09,630 --> 00:55:12,260 the increasing stress in our society. 1103 00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:14,550 So it's a cultural manifestation, 1104 00:55:14,550 --> 00:55:17,100 and this is completely missing in medical practice. 1105 00:55:18,180 --> 00:55:20,140 If you look at Black Americans, 1106 00:55:20,140 --> 00:55:22,810 Black Americans are more likely to get prostate cancer 1107 00:55:23,730 --> 00:55:25,230 and more likely to die of it, 1108 00:55:25,230 --> 00:55:27,310 and not because of a lack of medical care. 1109 00:55:29,020 --> 00:55:31,110 Maybe there's something about being a minority 1110 00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:34,280 in this particular culture that is so highly stressful 1111 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:36,910 that it deranges the immune system. 1112 00:55:36,910 --> 00:55:41,370 If you look at the asthmatic Afro-American woman, 1113 00:55:41,370 --> 00:55:46,330 is that asthma a manifestation of her own pathology? 1114 00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,590 Or is it reflecting a social malaise? 1115 00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:55,090 Which means the emotion, whatever you've experienced, 1116 00:55:55,090 --> 00:55:57,840 probably suppressed rage or shame, 1117 00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:59,720 whatever you experience, 1118 00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,680 actually affects the physiology of your lungs. 1119 00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:05,770 Medicine is very interesting that way. 1120 00:56:05,770 --> 00:56:08,440 If you go to a dermatologist with an inflamed skin, 1121 00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:09,560 what kind of cream are they going to give you? 1122 00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,110 Anybody know? 1123 00:56:11,110 --> 00:56:12,780 Steroid cream, right. 1124 00:56:12,780 --> 00:56:15,820 If you go to a rheumatologist with an inflamed joint, 1125 00:56:15,820 --> 00:56:18,240 what medication are they going to give you? 1126 00:56:18,240 --> 00:56:20,160 Steroids very often. 1127 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:23,830 If you go to a lung specialist with asthma, 1128 00:56:23,830 --> 00:56:25,750 what kind of inhaler are you going to get? 1129 00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:26,660 Steroid. 1130 00:56:26,660 --> 00:56:28,120 If you go to a gastroenterologist 1131 00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:29,880 with an inflamed intestines, 1132 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,670 what kind of medication are you gonna get? 1133 00:56:31,670 --> 00:56:32,460 Steroids. 1134 00:56:32,460 --> 00:56:34,510 Now, what are steroids? 1135 00:56:34,510 --> 00:56:36,130 They're copies of cortisol. 1136 00:56:36,130 --> 00:56:37,010 What is cortisol? 1137 00:56:38,260 --> 00:56:40,180 The stress hormone. 1138 00:56:40,180 --> 00:56:42,510 We're treating everything with stress hormones. 1139 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:45,430 Maybe it should occur to us 1140 00:56:45,430 --> 00:56:46,520 that stress has something to do 1141 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,350 with the onset of these conditions. 1142 00:56:50,060 --> 00:56:52,480 The fundamental problem is capitalism, 1143 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,860 or I should say materialism. 1144 00:56:53,860 --> 00:56:56,150 As long as the research is driven by the profits 1145 00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:57,650 of pharmaceutical companies, 1146 00:56:57,650 --> 00:56:59,780 what's going to drive the education of physicians 1147 00:56:59,780 --> 00:57:02,660 except the profit motive of pharmaceutical companies? 1148 00:57:02,660 --> 00:57:03,950 I mean, it's just obvious. 1149 00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:09,580 People have to be seen as automatons, 1150 00:57:09,580 --> 00:57:12,630 as beings without really emotional needs 1151 00:57:12,630 --> 00:57:13,880 or spiritual needs. 1152 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,420 As globalization and globalized materialism 1153 00:57:18,420 --> 00:57:20,470 spreads throughout the world, 1154 00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:21,930 so there's auto immune disease 1155 00:57:21,930 --> 00:57:23,430 spreading throughout the world 1156 00:57:23,430 --> 00:57:26,270 in societies that hardly even knew them before. 1157 00:57:26,270 --> 00:57:29,390 Diseases, whether mental or physical, 1158 00:57:29,390 --> 00:57:33,690 are normal responses to abnormal circumstances, 1159 00:57:33,690 --> 00:57:35,320 and what would be considered normal 1160 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,820 in this society is often actually insane. 1161 00:57:39,150 --> 00:57:42,120 In the most health obsessed humans society ever, 1162 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:43,910 all is not well. 1163 00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:46,830 In the US, the richest society in history, 1164 00:57:46,830 --> 00:57:49,290 fully half of the citizens have a chronic disorder 1165 00:57:49,290 --> 00:57:51,500 such as high blood pressure or diabetes. 1166 00:57:52,710 --> 00:57:56,050 Illness is when part of an organism, 1167 00:57:56,050 --> 00:57:59,220 starts working against the overall benefit 1168 00:57:59,220 --> 00:58:00,550 of the organism. 1169 00:58:00,550 --> 00:58:02,470 So that say, in an autoimmune disease, 1170 00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:05,510 the immune system attacks the host organism. 1171 00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:09,100 So a system that was designed by nature to protect you 1172 00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:10,350 now it turns against you. 1173 00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:15,900 Cell division, which is meant to be coordination 1174 00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:17,030 with the needs of the entire organism, 1175 00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:19,190 gets out of hand and now you've got cancer. 1176 00:58:23,870 --> 00:58:25,450 The search is always to find out 1177 00:58:25,450 --> 00:58:27,490 what's wrong with the individual cell, 1178 00:58:27,490 --> 00:58:30,540 or how do you kill the abnormal cells? 1179 00:58:30,540 --> 00:58:34,040 So the treatment is restricted to the biological plane. 1180 00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:38,090 We either cut it out or we poison it or we burn it. 1181 00:58:38,090 --> 00:58:40,050 That's our approach to treating cancer. 1182 00:58:41,220 --> 00:58:45,180 Most chronic illness is a way of the body saying no 1183 00:58:45,180 --> 00:58:47,560 when the person suppress their no's 1184 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,180 in order to fit in. 1185 00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:52,940 I'm saying that when the illness comes along, 1186 00:58:52,940 --> 00:58:55,610 we can just look upon it as a nuisance to get rid of 1187 00:58:55,610 --> 00:58:57,400 and an enemy to fight, 1188 00:58:58,900 --> 00:59:02,450 or we can say, okay, well, it's here now. 1189 00:59:02,450 --> 00:59:03,450 What's the teaching? 1190 00:59:04,660 --> 00:59:06,740 Which it doesn't mean that we don't accept treatment 1191 00:59:06,740 --> 00:59:10,700 or we don't do our best to heal, 1192 00:59:10,700 --> 00:59:13,120 but that, as part of that healing process, 1193 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:14,750 we actually ask ourselves 1194 00:59:14,750 --> 00:59:18,420 what does this mean about my life and my relationships 1195 00:59:18,420 --> 00:59:21,130 and particularly about how I treat myself? 1196 00:59:21,130 --> 00:59:22,170 What is the teaching? 1197 00:59:28,180 --> 00:59:29,720 - My name is Tim. 1198 00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,930 I'm 51-years-old. 1199 00:59:31,930 --> 00:59:35,400 I was given a diagnosis of prostate cancer 1200 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:37,150 about a year and a half ago. 1201 00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,570 I actually had a full, radical prostatectomy, 1202 00:59:42,570 --> 00:59:45,030 so that means the whole removal of my prostate 1203 00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:47,620 which was no walk in the park. 1204 00:59:47,620 --> 00:59:50,620 It's quite a, quite an extensive surgery. 1205 00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:53,790 In October they did a bone scan 1206 00:59:53,790 --> 00:59:56,500 and found that there was multiple areas